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lakes Rick
10-19-2004, 08:23 PM
My buddy has been complaining about his boss being kinda out of it lately.. Nice guy, family business, pay there employees well..
He is around 40. Live real well..LOVES his wife and two kids.. He is the epitomy of FAMILY man.. Hates to go out of town, because he misses his family too much... GUESS WHAT.....

SHE filed for divorce cause she ( I swear this is what she said) " I am not happy anymore"... Well that is a sure sign of another "sausage has been in the tuna factory"....

OH of course she wasnt TOO UNHAPPY to want EVERYTHING.. House, money, cars, part of the business ( when is divorce going to go back to FAULT again)... Poor EX husband.. I guess this guy sits in his office and just stares out the window, lost .... Everthing that meant anything to him has been taken by HER DECISION to be a selfish piece of trash.....

And you young guys on here want to get married???? ARE YOU effin nuts!!!!!!! Think about it this way. Every OTHER person you walk by on the street is gonna get or is divorced.. OVER 50% divorce rate.. And you think a good lawyer is gonna save you??? Forget it.. Gender bias and racism is alive and LEGAL in Family law...

Just isnt fair and should be outlawed... If you want out and there is no reason for it, except you want some strange stuff, the law should say " here is your stained underwear, GET OUT".........

Mag_Red
10-19-2004, 08:33 PM
Sad story.......but there are millions just like this.

BriEOD
10-19-2004, 09:16 PM
That sucks dude! You make some very good points Rick. It's probably just cheaper to have them whacked! (kidding).

DrNautica
10-19-2004, 09:57 PM
Bitter???

I went through a bitter divorce 11-12 years ago - my fault (well mostly.) She took everything she could and then some. She even tried to keep me from taking the kids (2 boys) boating. She actually had her attorney write it up something like this: "...shall not be permitted to take the children boating, swimming, fishing or any activity involving watersports and/or recreation." I'm so totally not kidding here. I even had a letter to the editor published in Boating Magazine soliciting help (at that time I couldn't afford great legal counsel.) Well, although I got screwed in just about every other way, (not even shared parenting) and I had to pay $839/mo. child support (she made 45% of household income) and give her the house which she promptly sold and pocketed $50,000+ in equity, the judge did make them back off on the water restriction clause.

Long story short: the Ex died suddenly a year and a half ago and now the kids live with me full-time. She was raised Southern Baptist and brought the kids up with no religious affiliation whatsoever. Now they go to Catholic schools. She really wasn't so bad after all. :wavey: I'd like to think that she looks down and even approves of how our children are being raised. I don't know if that's accurate but that's what I like to think. And yes, they ski, wakeboard, fish, swim and live aboard a boat every weekend year 'round and they absolutely love it!

Mag_Red
10-19-2004, 10:38 PM
Bitter???

I went through a bitter divorce 11-12 years ago - my fault (well mostly.) She took everything she could and then some. She even tried to keep me from taking the kids (2 boys) boating. She actually had her attorney write it up something like this: "...shall not be permitted to take the children boating, swimming, fishing or any activity involving watersports and/or recreation." I'm so totally not kidding here. I even had a letter to the editor published in Boating Magazine soliciting help (at that time I couldn't afford great legal counsel.) Well, although I got screwed in just about every other way, (not even shared parenting) and I had to pay $839/mo. child support (she made 45% of household income) and give her the house which she promptly sold and pocketed $50,000+ in equity, the judge did make them back off on the water restriction clause.

Long story short: the Ex died suddenly a year and a half ago and now the kids live with me full-time. She was raised Southern Baptist and brought the kids up with no religious affiliation whatsoever. Now they go to Catholic schools. She really wasn't so bad after all. :wavey: I'd like to think that she looks down and even approves of how our children are being raised. I don't know if that's accurate but that's what I like to think. And yes, they ski, wakeboard, fish, swim and live aboard a boat every weekend year 'round and they absolutely love it!
You have got to be kidding! Wasn't so bad????? What makes you thnk she is looking down?? Sounds like she would be looking up from where she finally ended. :headbang:

lakes Rick
10-20-2004, 01:08 AM
You have got to be kidding! Wasn't so bad????? What makes you thnk she is looking down?? Sounds like she would be looking up from where she finally ended. :headbang:

Amen to that.. You are being way too nice Dr. Nautica...

If that happened to mine, I better have a good alibi, cause the police would be at my door next.. Of course having a "ding dong the witch is dead " party wouldnt help.......

DrNautica
10-20-2004, 09:48 AM
Guys,

Be careful what you wish for. While we didn't see eye-to-eye while we were married, and certainly not after the divorce, she is the Mother of my children and nobody should have to see their Mom die when they are mere children.

lakes Rick
10-20-2004, 12:31 PM
A mother who lets Predatory men hurt her kids, steals money from her kids, is NEVER home partying nightly, leaving her kids ALONE at 10 & 12 for the weekend, isnt gonna be missed.. I guarantee you the Government child support offices made sure she got money from me to support her drinking and drug habits. As long as the bad MEN pay thats all the WOMEN who run these government offices care about. It doesnt matter that the kids dont get the "child support"..
I do not wish mine dead,BUT, if it happened NOBODY would miss her though and the world would be a better place....

I hope Yours was better than mine... Be careful who you breed with out there

captkidd
10-21-2004, 11:06 AM
Can't add much to this one. Never been there, don't have any plans to (of course, it's not all up to me). My parents were divorced after 39 years of marriage; it was all my Dad's fault as he had screwed around their entire marriage. My Mom was a homemaker their entire marriage and had no separate income. He took all his tools, farm equipment, etc., and she had to pay him for part of the house's value. I think she gets half his retirement pay and that's it. He now lives in a trailer by himself and neither my brother nor sister will even speak to him (both were still living at home when he left). For the sake of my son I've done my best to maintain some semblance of a relationship with him. It's not bad, but it's certainly awkward at times.

Who/how/why did the "Hypothetical Question" thread get closed?

east tx skier
10-21-2004, 11:22 AM
Capt. Kidd., I'm in the same boat (happily married and planning to stay that way if we can help it). I am, however, the product of my dad's second marriage. I get along well with my 3 half-brothers. My dad got along with his first wife until the day she died. Sometimes marriages don't work, sad though that may be. Everything that Rick and others have gone through is terrible. And obviously, I don't hold anyone in very high esteem who could be married to someone, then turn around and use it as leverage in a financial S.N.A.F.U. As they say, it ain't right; it ain't fair. That said, I don't think scrapping no-fault divorce is the answer.

My sister's husband left her after 11 years, and only a few months after she had given birth to their first child, my niece. Turns out, the relationship was far from storybook. They get along much better now. I think it's better for my niece to grow up in a house without all that confrontation. And yes, she sees her dad very often.

Leec
10-21-2004, 05:15 PM
Guys,

Be careful what you wish for. While we didn't see eye-to-eye while we were married, and certainly not after the divorce, she is the Mother of my children and nobody should have to see their Mom die when they are mere children.
AMEN!
I had to divorce my wife of 20 yrs in '93 and 4 children. She had become a flaming alcoholic. I ended up with the kids, the house and my retirement plan plus she had to pay me child support of $600 for 3 growing boys. She did die in '97 as a result of the alcohol on her various organs,and having to go thru the funeral with my kids ripped me apart. I know some of my own trauma was in it, as I lost my mom to alcohol when I was 6 1/2, and here I was now going thru it with my kids. I still loved her after it was all said and done, but I and the kids had to move on. She was dragging the whole family down. So I can identify. I did get $900 a month in child support thru SS benefits until the youngest was 18.
:smile:

Thrall
10-21-2004, 05:24 PM
I know it was a long time ago Lee, but it's never fun to hear a story like that, much less live it, I'm sure. With that said, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
You must be pretty busy w/ the new job lately, don't see you around here as much. Guess that means your boat and suburban are at least running well!
-Thrall

east tx skier
10-21-2004, 05:45 PM
What Thrall said. Having lost a parent at an early age, I'd not wish the experience on anyone.

Ric
10-21-2004, 05:55 PM
I'm with ya Rick
women freely come up with some really dumb ideas and our family code feeds that stupidity making it ridiculously easy for them to be "independent" (with your money!)
Take any woman with more or less good intentions and let her get an idea like divorce in her head.... She just wants out, (for whatever odd reason she may have). She wants to let the guy down easy right? I mean, he hasn't really done anything wrong, hurt anybody, cheated, no, she's just not happy.
Now roll her into the next divorce lawyer's office and see how she comes out snarling.

I really feel for you guys having to carry your kids through the loss of a parent. My ex got me good for no more than rick's friend did but I dont wish that on my kids either.

Leec
10-21-2004, 05:57 PM
I know it was a long time ago Lee, but it's never fun to hear a story like that, much less live it, I'm sure. With that said, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
You must be pretty busy w/ the new job lately, don't see you around here as much. Guess that means your boat and suburban are at least running well!
-ThrallThrall the boat hasn't seen water since june of this year. Yes the suburban is still running quite well. Thanks for asking.
Yes it is a really tough thing to go thru. I actually cried at my ex's funeral. It really hurt so bad. What hurt I really think was my kids losing there mom, even as F@@ked up as she was. I really felt for them and each one of them dealt with her death in a different way..My daughter was 22 then and she was shrieking in the Churchs waiting room. My youngest was 14 at the time, as compared to my 6 1/2. :(

east tx skier
10-21-2004, 06:23 PM
Ric, since you're in Texas, what specifically would you change about the Texas Family Code with regard to the allocation of community property. Please don't take this as me challenging your statement about it. I'm just curious is all.

Ric
10-21-2004, 06:59 PM
apparantly this is your field?
It's unrealistic, but I agree with Rick that no fault is BS, (unless no fault means that you pay if I'm not at fault)
I'm fine with going after deadbeat dads and I'm fine with the databases required to do this.
From my personal experience I'd change the way child support is calculated.
I'd also like to be able to deduct the after-tax money I pay in child support(since the custodial parent claims the children as dependents on Federal income tax and is NOT taxed on the child support income)
I'd also like to see some provision written for where the child support allocation goes although I don't know how you'd do that without infringing on privacy either

Having lived it, I'd say the mediation process in TX works but we unnecessarily spent alot before we got there.
I dont know what changing the family code can do other than the no fault issue I mentioned earlier but in my situation there was alot of debt tied to me for which there were no assets.
(doug they actually wanted me to sell my boat to get it out of her name)
You may know the legal term they used for my not paying attention to the common finances of the marriage but I now referr to it as headupazz.

what I learned is that EVERYTHING is negotiable (even child support) it's farging amazing what numbers they threw at me in that process --- fuzzy math for sure

lakes Rick
10-21-2004, 08:09 PM
To add to the above:

My summary of no fault divorce means:

If you leave your wife you lose everything and pay through the nose

If your wife leaves for another man, you lose everything and pay through the nose....

Something wrong with this picture?????

BriEOD
10-21-2004, 11:04 PM
I agree with what Doug said. I lost my dad when I was just a wee lad and it definitely has an affect on your life.

H20skeefreek
10-22-2004, 07:44 AM
To add to the above:

My summary of no fault divorce means:

If you leave your wife you lose everything and pay through the nose

If your wife leaves for another man, you lose everything and pay through the nose....

Something wrong with this picture?????


so really no fault = man's fault, regardless? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

east tx skier
10-22-2004, 12:07 PM
Ric, I'm in the appellate field, which tends to be all encompassing rather than a focused specialty. No fault divorce means that you don't have some judge up there determining whether you can ultimately get divorced. That's why I think getting away from "no fault" divorce is not such a good idea. People make mistakes. If two people aren't committed to a marriage, what's the point of dragging it out by telling them they have to stay married. I'm not saying one party deserves a financial windfall at the other's expense when the one makes such a mistake though. I just think there are less drastic solutions to the issue. The last place I knew of that had fault-only divorce was Louisiana, and if memory serves, they got rid of it in the late 90s.

In Texas, if either party is at fault (there's a laundry list of what constitutes fault, among them infidelity), the court can order a uneven split of the community property in favor of the party who was not at fault. If there are Judges (assuming a bench trial) who don't tend to apply this rule of the law, then the only thing I would do, were it me, short of appealing the judgment, is not vote for the judge the next time (don't forget that Texas state judges are elected - and in Harris County, last I checked, 100% Republican, but it's been a few years since I practiced in Harris County).

Not really sure what you're talking about with regard to the management of debt, etc., and I'm by no means trying to butt into your personal business. It sounds to me like your principal concerns were about child support payments rather than community property and asset distribution. Maybe you're referring to comingling of separate property (property acquired before marriage that's not subject to being split up upon divorce if it can be traced to separate property). To be honest, it's been so long since I've looked at the child support stuff that I wouldn't want to say a thing about it. But hey, at least there's no alimony here.

/Disclaimer: don't forget that this is, in no way, shape, or form, to be construed as legal advice by anyone. I'm a government employee and forbidden from practicing law so long as I am. I'm was just curious on your take about Texas law.

Ric
10-22-2004, 12:43 PM
ya
most of my beef is with child support (not paying it, but how it's used and of course how it fits in the tax code)
I certainly dont know how we get from here to there though.
no alimony is good
mediation is good
the rule on comingling is good
regarding community property I would like to see fault play into the split of property, but do I want to spend 10k in legal fees to get it in front of a judge? A guy like me doesnt stand to gain by doing that. If I had a few ranches or if I'd owned a business.... You bet your azz I would.

east tx skier
10-22-2004, 01:21 PM
Ric, I forgot to mention mediation - good. Also, it's come a long way. As for fault playing a roll in the split, it's on the books. It ought to happen. If a judge isn't following the law, in my opinion, the electorate ought to vote for the other guy (the way I recall it, there wasn't much opposition in the past to the judges in Harris County, but again, I could be wrong). I hear you on not wanting to pay the legal fees. One of the huge benefits of going to law school was meeting a bunch of lawyers who will take care of things for their former classmates/buddies and not charge for it (also a benefit of being married to a lawyer). The child support stuff is not something over which the judge has a lot of discretion if I recall. It's on the books and is almost formulaic if memory serves. Solution. Call your State rep.

I'm surprised that all this talk hasn't led to more discussion of prenuptial agreements. I guess Rick has one in the form of an agreement to not get married. ;)

tex
10-22-2004, 01:39 PM
From what I understand about D-I-V-O-R-C-E(Tammy Wynette) here in Tarrant County, they are using mediation at the front end to save everyone $$$$.

Hussman
10-22-2004, 01:40 PM
Listen to this guys, this is simply horrifying. I've read the entire thread and the moral of the story, no matter how happy you are with the woman of your dreams, is DON'T GET MARRIED. All it seems to do is guarantee financial disaster. It's just another example of our government controlling even the most intimate aspects of your life. Get married, she bangs the mail man, you lose everything. Uneven distribution of assets in the event of infidelity. This means your financial well being completely hinges on your feelings for other people.

Cheating is a horrible thing to do to somebody but should it financially cripple you? I don't think so. Sex should only cost you once, whether it's a $100 date or a $50 hooker, it shouldn't be paid in installments. Look at it this way, you've been married ten years, you don't get along, you both know it's over. You meet an interesting girl but you're feelings for her will now cost you even more. I'm in my low 30s, never married and scared as hell to ever do it.

All these horror stories prove that no matter how wonderful she seems to be right now, 5 years down the road she may be the most evil thing to walk the earth.

Just my :twocents:

east tx skier
10-22-2004, 03:17 PM
From what I understand about D-I-V-O-R-C-E(Tammy Wynette) here in Tarrant County, they are using mediation at the front end to save everyone $$$$.

That's good. It's ultimately a settlement negotiation anyway. 99 times out of 100, the best thing anyone can do is settle a lawsuit. The earlier, usually, the better. Being a party to a lawsuit sucks. It's a huge headache. If you want to sue someone, you need to make sure you're really injured bad. Otherwise, it's just sadistic, and often, not worth the trouble.

east tx skier
10-22-2004, 03:21 PM
Hussman, I can certainly see your side of things. All I can say is that sometimes, you just meet the right girl. I don't know what I'd do without her. I also agree that cheating is a horrible thing to do to someone. I've been cheated on in a previous relationship and it's brutal. Not something I'd want to inflict on my worst enemy.

Ron Grover
10-22-2004, 04:56 PM
Learned from my business issues.

Court is not someplace you to determine right and wrong. Court is where you go when you can't agree.

From my experiences seems like right and wrong has very little to do with what happens in court. (No offense Doug)

Fortunately been married 29 years and my wife and I have agreed that we have to stay married because there cannot be ANYONE else out there that is so screwed up they would put up with either one of us.

east tx skier
10-22-2004, 05:09 PM
Ron, no offense taken. The reason I work in an appellate court is because I was very frustrated with the way some decisions seemed to being made in many trial courts before which I practiced. I can only speak for the court I'm with currently when I say that if there's one out there that does it better that this one, I haven't seen it. But if you're looking for someone to say the legal system's perfect or close to it, it won't be me. Sad fact of life I suppose. All I can say is that the people with whom I work are doing their darndest to get it right and be fair.

tex
10-22-2004, 05:19 PM
Ron, no offense taken. The reason I work in an appellate court is because I was very frustrated with the way some decisions seemed to being made in many trial courts before which I practiced. I can only speak for the court I'm with currently when I say that if there's one out there that does it better that this one, I haven't seen it. But if you're looking for someone to say the legal system's perfect or close to it, it won't be me. Sad fact of life I suppose. All I can say is that the people with whom I work are doing their darndest to get it right and be fair.

That's all we can ask!

lakes Rick
10-22-2004, 07:14 PM
Listen to this guys, this is simply horrifying. I've read the entire thread and the moral of the story, no matter how happy you are with the woman of your dreams, is DON'T GET MARRIED. All it seems to do is guarantee financial disaster. It's just another example of our government controlling even the most intimate aspects of your life. Get married, she bangs the mail man, you lose everything. Uneven distribution of assets in the event of infidelity. This means your financial well being completely hinges on your feelings for other people.

Cheating is a horrible thing to do to somebody but should it financially cripple you? I don't think so. Sex should only cost you once, whether it's a $100 date or a $50 hooker, it shouldn't be paid in installments. Look at it this way, you've been married ten years, you don't get along, you both know it's over. You meet an interesting girl but you're feelings for her will now cost you even more. I'm in my low 30s, never married and scared as hell to ever do it.

All these horror stories prove that no matter how wonderful she seems to be right now, 5 years down the road she may be the most evil thing to walk the earth.

Just my :twocents:

Another graduate from the Rick school of smartness....

I really wish it was different, but when the legal system makes these kind of things the law , be smart men and abide by the laws.... And people wonder why less and less people are getting married?? No surprise on this side of the monitor..... Its the ONLY safe financially sound thing a male can do..

MarkP
10-22-2004, 07:36 PM
Bla, Bla, Bla,


Find a good woman, grow some stones, quit listening to Rick and GO FOR IT..:banana:
OR you will never know how good it can be!!:love:

lakes Rick
10-22-2004, 07:47 PM
Like I have said before.. If Vegas had odds like marriage, it would be a ghost town.... Roll the dice baby.....

MarkP
10-23-2004, 05:17 PM
And I would be a wealthy man:toast: ..

Leroy
10-23-2004, 08:45 PM
I agree Mark, the risk is great and that is why you really need to think about getting married, but the rewards are also so great! With that said, it's hard to tell when someone just "changes" and then you have problems.

PS: what is "grow some stones"? Find it also on the internet, but not the definition!

MarkP
10-23-2004, 11:16 PM
PS: what is "grow some stones"? Find it also on the internet, but not the definition![/QUOTE]
Balls, dude. :wavey:

NeilM
10-25-2004, 11:24 AM
Maybe it's different in the USA, but here, once you're with the same partner for 3 years, whether married or not, that partner's status is "equivalent to married"...

So, unless you're movin' em in and out faster than that....

Thrall
10-25-2004, 11:52 AM
On one hand, I can definately agree w/ you guys who have a complete disgust for marriage, as I have seen the same things happen to a couple of my friends. The worst part, I think, is not the $$ issues, but when child custody gets ugly.
On the other hand, and I speak from experience, if you find the right girl, you'll really realize what you were missing if you didn't. I was fortunate enough to find that person and wouldn't change it for the world.

NeilM
10-25-2004, 12:01 PM
should we poll :eek: the MC members to see if it's any different here?

I'll be honest... in the 27.5 years I've been married, it hasn't all been 100% a bed of roses... But, to me, it's been worth it, and, if I had it all to do all over again, I would... :love:

lakes Rick
10-25-2004, 02:01 PM
On one hand, I can definately agree w/ you guys who have a complete disgust for marriage, as I have seen the same things happen to a couple of my friends. The worst part, I think, is not the $$ issues, but when child custody gets ugly.
On the other hand, and I speak from experience, if you find the right girl, you'll really realize what you were missing if you didn't. I was fortunate enough to find that person and wouldn't change it for the world.

Child custody is about $$$ .. I know a multitude of women who came back for the kids after talking to their lawyers.. My friends could not stop the court from taking them after the woman abandoned them.. Gender bias towards the females is LEGAL...

lakes Rick
10-25-2004, 02:04 PM
Maybe it's different in the USA, but here, once you're with the same partner for 3 years, whether married or not, that partner's status is "equivalent to married"...

So, unless you're movin' em in and out faster than that....

Funny how the system keeps moving us men more and more towards being responsible for the well being ( money) of the female race.. I guess they want to keep them off the welfare rolls.....

lakes Rick
10-25-2004, 02:10 PM
Anybody watch "Cheaters" last saturday night ( I guess this shows how exciting my weekends are).. anyways

The usual.. Caught her on film with some younger kid, while her hardworking boyfriend is out of town working.. She brought the kid to her "boyfriends" house to do him.... After showing her the film she said " but he never takes me out" and "thats not me thats my twin sister" of which she does not have one.. I know it is a show but it reflects the reality of what I see out in the "market".. The good thing is the guy had some cajones, and threw her out of HIS house and now has another girl friend.. I hope she like living in her car oh wait.. I am sure their are other sops out there ready to move her in and get the same treatment..

Seems to be the future, NOBODY wants to take responsibility for their own actions.......

Ric
10-25-2004, 02:11 PM
NOT that my ex is a low life like that, but when I asked atty about custody, he said, get your wallet out and you may still not win.
Is she a drug dealer? no, Prostitute? no , Felon? no (I forget exacts but there were 3 ridiculous things like this that could have gained me custody.) Other than that, the winner would definitely spend tons of $$, that is a fact & yet may still not be the best parent
who wins? not the kids for sure, not you, not her, but the attorneys.
Rick I too have gone on dates with women I found unsuitable for their own children, I cannot spend time with someone like that. (That, or I'm one opinionated sob)

lakes Rick
10-25-2004, 02:15 PM
NOT that my ex is a low life like that, but when I asked atty about custody, he said, get your wallet out and you may still not win.
Is she a drug dealer? no, Prostitute? no , Felon? no (I forget exacts but there were 3 ridiculous things like this that could have gained me custody.) Other than that, the winner would definitely spend tons of $$, that is a fact & yet may still not be the best parent
who wins? not the kids for sure, not you, not her, but the attorneys.
Rick I too have gone on dates with women I found unsuitable for their own children, I cannot spend time with someone like that. (That, or I'm one opinionated sob)

Ric, gender bias in the system.. It is automatically assumed the woman is the better place for the child which unfortunaty has been proven wrong.. Many more kids killed in the mothers custody then the mens... Its all about money..

captkidd
10-25-2004, 04:24 PM
Seems like the mothers' boyfriends are usually the ones who harm the kids. I heard a report about the number of children who were killed last year in NC by their parent(s)/guardian(s), and how they died, and it is absolutely atrocious. Anyone who wants to argue against the death penalty better not use these cases as their examples.

Leec
10-25-2004, 06:06 PM
, but when I asked atty about custody, he said, get your wallet out and you may still not win.
Is she a drug dealer? no, Prostitute? no , Felon? no (I forget exacts but there were 3 ridiculous things like this that could have gained me custody.) Probably Ric, the missing one is addict! :toast:
Alcohol or drugs!
:smile:

lakes Rick
10-25-2004, 06:26 PM
Seems like the mothers' boyfriends are usually the ones who harm the kids. I heard a report about the number of children who were killed last year in NC by their parent(s)/guardian(s), and how they died, and it is absolutely atrocious. Anyone who wants to argue against the death penalty better not use these cases as their examples.

You are correct.. Why aren't the mothers looking out for the welfare of their children???