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98ps190
10-17-2004, 03:19 AM
This is the first year I've winterized our boat and after compiling different procedures from Mastercraft, Indmar, and this board I put most of them together and gave it a shot. I have a few questions though:

1) I didn't think I pumped out enough tranny fluid, so I ran the engine with most of it pumped out. Did I damage the tranny? I didn't put it in gear or anything like that.

2) I pulled all the drain plugs and shoved a hanger up the block holes to remove the "junk" from the drains. I put plugs back in and ran 4 gallons of antifreeze through the system. I didn't let the engine get hot, I only ran it until it sucked up all of the antifreeze. Did it get into the block, and if not will it be ok thru our cold MI winters?

3) I tried to remove the impeller but couldn't get it out. What's the trick?

Thanks for the help

Kell
10-17-2004, 11:43 AM
1) You should be ok.

2) You should be ok.

3) Others have squirted some dish soap in the impeller housing, pulled the netural safety switch (so engine will not start but will crank) and turn the engine over, then work the impeller out with two screw drivers, then once partly out use plyers to pull it out. As for myself, and since I have a v-drive with limited access, I use an impeller puller I picked up from West Marine. Their not cheap ($59), but IMO much easier to do on a v-drive. Here is a link http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=25413

JimN
10-17-2004, 11:59 AM
You can check the block for anti-freeze by removing the plug and knock sensor briefly to see if what comes out is the same color as what went in. You stabilized the gas and fogged it too, right? There is a lot of info on winterization on this site, as well as mymastercraft.com. You can do a search here and will be able to find what you need to know.

bcampbe7
10-17-2004, 12:02 PM
Not to hi-jack the thread but what is the easiest way to get the coolant into the block? Aside from having the dealer winterize my boat... :)

Mag_Red
10-17-2004, 01:34 PM
Not to hi-jack the thread but what is the easiest way to get the coolant into the block? Aside from having the dealer winterize my boat... :)Here's what I'm planning to to, so if I'm totally off base, someone please jump in before I screw up the boat. :purplaugh

1. I have the toilet plunger looking thing.
2. I am planning on placing the Antifreeze in a five gallon bucket.
3. To draw the antifreeze to the toilet plunger thing, I am going to use a drill operated pump to bring the water from the bucket to the water pick-up and wait till I see it blow at the exhaust ( while the boat is running)

Workable??? :wavey:

sfitzgerald351
10-17-2004, 03:17 PM
I think the easiest thing to do is to get a 5 gallon water jug (clear so you can see the coolant level!). Fill it up with coolant and place it in the boat next to the raw water pickup. Remove the hose from the bottom of the boat where it goes to the lake and place it in the bucket. I find that my hose isn't quite long enough to get to the bottom so I use a helper to tip the bucket at the end to keep the hose in the coolant. Alternatively you could just get a longer hose, they aren't that expensive and it's easy to 1 hose clamp on the tranny cooler to replace it to do this. The reason I like this method is that I fog the engine during the last few inches of coolant and I want to be near the key to kill the motor before I run the impeller dry.

98ps190
10-17-2004, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the reply's. JimN, I did fog and sta-bil the gas. I used the 5 gallon bucket method for getting the antifreeze in the block. I was alone, and I must say for a first timer it was a handfull. I had the bucket and hose ready, and also had my fogging oil in hand. I started the engine and while holding the hose in the bucket I waited till it was almost gone and then started spraying the fogging oil in my intakes. The motor spuddered, but did not stall. I had to shut it off myself when the bucket was empty. I wasn't sure how much oil I had sprayed in so I took out each spark plug and sprayed for about 3 seconds in each cylinder then pulled the saftey switch and turned it over a few times. Hopefully that's good enough.

JimN
10-17-2004, 03:58 PM
Mag- there's no way the drill pump will keep up with the raw water pump. If the Fake-a Lake (which I don't really like because if there's a gap around the cup, the raw water pump will suck air and won't cool it effectively) works for running it on the hose, you can warm it up, shut it down, then use a hose from the raw water pump stuck into a 5 gal bucket with antifreeze and suck it in that way. This way lets you see how effective the impeller is and lubricates it in case you want to leave it in till spring. It's better to remove it for the winter, though. Any time anti-freeze is used, the plug/knock sensor should be removed briefly to see if what comes out is pink, indicating the anti-freeze made it into the block.

Andyg
10-17-2004, 07:16 PM
Why do some many people use antifreeze when winterizing their boats? From my experience with my 97 PS190 and my 03 PS197 I think it is just as easy if not easier to drain the system and also you don't have to worry about anitfreeze having a negative impact on engine components, such as aluminum heads.

To drain the water from the system on my MCX engine it requires the removal of two hoses on the front of the motor, two engine block plugs (one being the knock sensor) and then finally the exhaust crossover hose. It literally only takes 5 minutes and you are done. I guess I just feel better not having water in the engine over having antifreeze.

Kell
10-17-2004, 07:28 PM
I'll be winterizing my boat next weekend :( , and since its raining today and the kids are down for an afternoon nap, I figured I would try and put a list together of supplies and procedures to winterize my boat (Maristar v-drive). I have gathered information from various web sites, posts and tips on this board, and the like, and have stored all this great knowledge in a folder. So I fired up the computer and began typing a check list of supplies, and step by step procedures of what would probably work best for me and my type of boat.

So I can't take credit for any information, tips or procedures therein nor can I take any grief for anything that is incorrect :). So feel free to revise for your specific boat and the steps you deem necessary for your local.

However, I can't seem to upload it as the system states that the size file size to large, max file size is 19.5KB, and my Word doc is 58.5KB. Anyone care to tell me how to accomplish this?

Mag_Red
10-17-2004, 08:14 PM
Mag- there's no way the drill pump will keep up with the raw water pump. If the Fake-a Lake (which I don't really like because if there's a gap around the cup, the raw water pump will suck air and won't cool it effectively) works for running it on the hose, you can warm it up, shut it down, then use a hose from the raw water pump stuck into a 5 gal bucket with antifreeze and suck it in that way. This way lets you see how effective the impeller is and lubricates it in case you want to leave it in till spring. It's better to remove it for the winter, though. Any time anti-freeze is used, the plug/knock sensor should be removed briefly to see if what comes out is pink, indicating the anti-freeze made it into the block.WEll I have my first oil change on a direct drive under my belt. :dance: I did notice, while running on the fake a lake, my temp never got over 160. What the heck is the normal operating temps for a predator??? At what temp does the thermostat open?? Take a look at the pic and tell me if I got the right idea :D

JimN
10-17-2004, 08:55 PM
You just experienced the reason I don't use a Fake-a-Lake. It doesn't guarantee a good seal at the hull and this causes it to suck air, not water.

If I actually use anti-freeze, I will frequently drain the block before sucking it in, just to make sure it gets into the motor without diluting.

Adding fuel stabilizer, running it till it's at normal operating temp, fogging it and then draining it pretty much eliminates the chance of having the motor crack since there isn't enough liquid to cause a problem.

If you have a 5 gallon bucket (20 gallon container is better), you can get a piece of hose, a hose clamp and a shut-off valve for the hose at Home Depot, etc for less than $15. Put the hose on the bottom fitting of the raw water pump and stick the other end in the container of water, with the hose in it to keep filling as you run the motor to temperature. Then, if you want to use anti-freeze, empty the container of water, put in whatever amount of anti-freeze you want, start the motor and suck it up. When it gets close to running out, fog it and shut it down.

Mag_Red
10-17-2004, 09:40 PM
Hey Jim...do you still have to fog a fuel injected motor??? Got some other questions after reading the manual. Like how the hell are you supposed to get the screen off the transmission??? The book says on a 1:1, it's on the bottom of the unit. Didn't look like there was a lot of room under there to work. :confused: Also where is the knock sensor located??

Geez....My I/O was so much easier. :uglyhamme

JimN
10-17-2004, 11:33 PM
Yes, it still needs to be fogged. It's the valves and cast iron parts inside that you are trying to protect.

The knock sensor is where a petcock would go if there were two of them. It has a blue wire with a black plastic plug attached. When/if you remove and reinstall it, snug it by hand and use a 7/8" wrench to go 3/4 turn more. DO NOT overtighten it.

There isn't a lot of room to get the screen out. Who ever said these were easy to work on? Replace an impeller on a Mercruiser I/O and then tell me that it was easy. OMC and Volvo Penta have the right idea when it comes to the impeller. It's under a plastic cover on the back of the upper gear case.

jimmer2880
10-18-2004, 08:31 AM
1) You're probably ok

2) If you didn't run the motor either "at temp" or withOUT the thermostat - you're probably NOT ok. Pull your block plugs & look at the color of what comes out. It needs to be very close to what you put in.

3) I always replace my impeller - so I leave my old one in until spring. Then, I use the soap trick as described earlier. However - instead of using screw-drivers to "pry" it out, I screw a couple wood screws into the rubber & pull it out with pliers. However - if you have a V drive, this approach won't work for you.


This is the first year I've winterized our boat and after compiling different procedures from Mastercraft, Indmar, and this board I put most of them together and gave it a shot. I have a few questions though:

1) I didn't think I pumped out enough tranny fluid, so I ran the engine with most of it pumped out. Did I damage the tranny? I didn't put it in gear or anything like that.

2) I pulled all the drain plugs and shoved a hanger up the block holes to remove the "junk" from the drains. I put plugs back in and ran 4 gallons of antifreeze through the system. I didn't let the engine get hot, I only ran it until it sucked up all of the antifreeze. Did it get into the block, and if not will it be ok thru our cold MI winters?

3) I tried to remove the impeller but couldn't get it out. What's the trick?

Thanks for the help

NeilM
10-18-2004, 12:41 PM
Why do some many people use antifreeze when winterizing their boats? From my experience with my 97 PS190 and my 03 PS197 I think it is just as easy if not easier to drain the system and also you don't have to worry about anitfreeze having a negative impact on engine components, such as aluminum heads.

To drain the water from the system on my MCX engine it requires the removal of two hoses on the front of the motor, two engine block plugs (one being the knock sensor) and then finally the exhaust crossover hose. It literally only takes 5 minutes and you are done. I guess I just feel better not having water in the engine over having antifreeze.
JimN, your thoughts? Why not just drain everything and skip the antifreeze (except for ballast & shower)?

Ben
10-18-2004, 12:50 PM
No antifreeze:

I think Indmar told me this as well, the antifreeze is bad on the aluminum heads (LT1). I've been ok for 2 winters so far (knocking on wood) with the drain only method. I keep all the drains / holes open while I take it to winter storage, then put them back in once I'm there. Psychologically, this makes me think I'm "bouncing" any remainder water out on the way.... As Jim said, what is left hopefully won't be enough to cause any problems.

Seems to work ok & no worries about antifreeze.

Mag_Red
10-18-2004, 01:14 PM
JimN, your thoughts? Why not just drain everything and skip the antifreeze (except for ballast & shower)?Actually after reading the Owners Manual cover to cover, they only talk about antfreeze with regards to closed cooling systems.

NeilM
10-18-2004, 02:26 PM
Actually after reading the Owners Manual cover to cover, they only talk about antfreeze with regards to closed cooling systems.Exactly... Therefore my question.. [Nice to know I'm not the only guy who reads owners manuals...:wavey:]

Andyg
10-18-2004, 02:48 PM
I leave all of the hoses disconnected and the engine block plugs out during the winter. I keep the plugs in a ziploc in the cup holder on the drivers side. I have been winterizing my boats like this for the past 5 winters without a problem.

One thing I always do though is put mouse poison out in different compartments of the the boat when it sits for the winter. I don't know how they get in, but I found a dead one this past weekend when I was winterizing the boat.

Mag_Red
10-18-2004, 04:27 PM
Exactly... Therefore my question.. [Nice to know I'm not the only guy who reads owners manuals...:wavey:].....Still waiting on a answer for this..... :steering:

JimN
10-18-2004, 07:01 PM
Patience, Grasshopper. I have no problem with draining it and not using anti-freeze. Some people here worry about the rust that forms, but it's not as if it'll rust away in the time they'll own it and once the layer of rust forms, it's pretty much done rusting. If the impeller stays in, it does lubricate it, but since it should be replaced in spring anyway, the only thing it really does is make it come out a little easier.

Mag_Red
10-18-2004, 08:15 PM
Patience, Grasshopper. I have no problem with draining it and not using anti-freeze. Some people here worry about the rust that forms, but it's not as if it'll rust away in the time they'll own it and once the layer of rust forms, it's pretty much done rusting. If the impeller stays in, it does lubricate it, but since it should be replaced in spring anyway, the only thing it really does is make it come out a little easier. So I can return the 5 gallons of anti freeze in the garage??? :worthy:

JimN
10-18-2004, 09:19 PM
Yes, you can. If the boat stays on a lift, add the fuel stabilizer before you run it to the launch getting it warmed up before you load it onto the trailer. Once it's on, fog it, shut it down and pull it out of the way. Pull all of the plugs, hoses and loosen the belt(s), drive it to wherever it's going and do the rest of the winterization stuff.

sandsslot
10-18-2004, 09:35 PM
I purchase two gallons of RV antifreeze and install a piece of garden hose with the cutoff end inside the jug and the male end attached to a PVC fitting that inserts into the water inlet line at the boats bottom (I remove the hose). I start the engine, it sucks the coolant & shut it off when it bleeds out the port block hole and exhaust outlets. Works nicely. I then fog the cylinders in place of putting a small amount of oil down the throat.

sfitzgerald351
10-25-2004, 04:05 PM
I understand that the theory that the small bit of rust that could form over the winter in a cooling system really isn't a big deal so no antifreeze is needed... But the manual on my 1984 says that the one of the main reasons for using anti-freeze is to keep all the seals from drying out. It this no longer a concern for new engines, but maybe for older engines? What seals are they talking about anyway in the cooling system? :confused:

paulphillipson
10-25-2004, 05:49 PM
Scott, They must be referring to the gaskets and seals around the pump shafts. I'v never had a problem by just thoroughly draining the engine, heater, and shower, then letting it all dry for a few days. With our 10-20% relative humidity, it will dry by then. reinstall the hoses to keep vermin out, and the next Spring fire it up.

Cody
11-14-2004, 02:52 AM
I already had the boat winterized this year by my local marine shop. So, I guess my question will be for next year. What is the fogging oil for? How do you use it?

Everything else makes sense to me.

Leroy
11-14-2004, 09:27 AM
JimN; How do you loosen the serpentine belt on a LTR1 330HP Maristar? THat belt is really tight and I do not see any way to loosen it. THanks

André
11-14-2004, 09:56 AM
Leroy
Didn't you notice an adjustement slot on your alternator bracket or a tensionning pulley when you had problem with you alternator?

BriEOD
11-14-2004, 10:50 AM
I think he is talking about the other belt Andre.

Leroy
11-14-2004, 02:05 PM
Andre; no, only holes as I pulled the broken bolts and put new one's in earlier this summer. I looked and could not find anyway to loosen then so you can imagine the pain with putting the bolts back in!

It's one big belt with grooves and very very tight!

JimN
11-14-2004, 02:14 PM
There's only one belt with the serpentine. Most of the time, you can loosen both bolts on the alternator and as it relaxes, the tension will pull the alternator so the flange moves away from the block. Eventually, the belt can be removed. If you just want to loosen the bolts, this will remove enough tension from the belt. It sounds like a hokey way to do it, but it works. Isn't there an idler pulley on it? If there is, you can use a wrench to loosen the idler and slip the belt off the pulley.

Leroy- can you post a photo?

Leroy
11-14-2004, 02:37 PM
No idler, and the only way I got the alt back on was putting in one bolt, mostly tighten and swing the alt into place, sure I'm not telling Jim or any or you anything new, but when you are curled up in the storage of a Maristar doing this you talk to yourself a lot! !#@!$@#

JimN
11-14-2004, 03:04 PM
I wasn't so much talking to my self as name-calling to the people who decided on how some things go together. It could get pretty ugly at times. :uglyhamme :rant: :rant:

east tx skier
11-15-2004, 12:04 PM
What is the fogging oil for? How do you use it?

Cody, I believe the fogging oil is to keep gaskets, seals, and cylyinders well lubricated over the winter, but ICBW. Just get a spray can of the stuff and spray it into the carb (under the little plastic flap) until it smokes or kills the engine. If you're changing your spark plugs, you can also spray it into the cylinder changers.

Tgchrist
11-15-2004, 10:58 PM
Bravo to Scott Fitzgerald. Exactly what I do as well. Works like a charm. I could never get the Fake a lake to suction from a bucket. Too much leakage in the system.

Thom Christen

sfitzgerald351
11-15-2004, 11:48 PM
Thanks! :)

Now all we need to do is to get Doug to hurry up and get his soon to be patented widget on the market for these purposes.

Doug, did I mention that I consult for an intellectual property firm that does manufacturing. They do electrical connectors so this isn't a solicitation for the work, but if you need some good lawyers (or more probable) a good contract manufacturing firm I can get you some contacts of people to call.

east tx skier
11-16-2004, 11:41 AM
Thanks a ton, Scott. Fortunately for my pocketbook, my patent lawyer will work for beer (and the opportunity to pick my brain on appellate matters), but mostly for beer. We've done a patent search and, unfortunately, it seems as if somebody beat me to it, although the design employs a feature that mine doesn't (and frankly I feel is unnecessary). It's not rocket science, but I felt it was worth looking into as, sometimes, the simplest designs are easily overlooked. And, as an English major, the simple designs are what I'm putting together.

So, basically, I'm not making any money on the design. On the advice of counsel, I can't post a picture of it, but have posted the patent numbers below that closely resemble it. I'm told that the patent statute prohibits people like you and me from building devices covered by patents, so keep that in mind when you are looking, but nothing more.

There are two patents that are close to what I was trying to do, but have, due to the patents, abandoned. One is from 1996. The other is from February 2004. The 2004 patent is like mine with the extra feature. Maybe we'll see it within a couple of years.

JimN
11-16-2004, 12:01 PM
tgchrist- The Fake-a Lake isn't made to suck water from a bucket. You're supposed to hook a garden hose to it. If the raw water intake is as big as it is, how would you expect it to get enough through a little, skinny hose in a bucket? If you want to run it on the trailer, look for posts containing 5 to 10 gallon containers and a hose the same size as the raw water intake hose. They have all of the parts listed and you have the added bonus of seeing how much water the pump actually pulls so you know how good the impeller is, or if the oil cooler is clear.

Doug- what kind of widget is it? Boat maintenance or beer making?

jimmer2880
11-16-2004, 12:37 PM
tgchrist- The Fake-a Lake isn't made to suck water from a bucket. You're supposed to hook a garden hose to it. If the raw water intake is as big as it is, how would you expect it to get enough through a little, skinny hose in a bucket? If you want to run it on the trailer, look for posts containing 5 to 10 gallon containers and a hose the same size as the raw water intake hose. They have all of the parts listed and you have the added bonus of seeing how much water the pump actually pulls so you know how good the impeller is, or if the oil cooler is clear.

Doug- what kind of widget is it? Boat maintenance or beer making?
I don't use the fake-a-lake, but do hook up a regular hose to my raw-water hose to suck anti-freeze through. Works well. No size issues here! ;)

Leroy
11-16-2004, 12:46 PM
Good going Doug! Too bad it was already taken, done that myself many times at work (14 patents still). If you could post the link to the other patents, or the patent numbers.

east tx skier
11-16-2004, 12:58 PM
Doug- what kind of widget is it? Boat maintenance or beer making?

Jim, (removed on advice of counsel). Check your email.

Leroy, I'm looking at several. There is one for something that looks like a fake-a-lake hooked to a bucket by the way.

Patent No. 5,482,483
Patent No. 6,695,660 B1.

jimmer2880
11-17-2004, 06:49 AM
Jim, (removed on advice of counsel). Check your email.

Leroy, I'm looking at several. There is one for something that looks like a fake-a-lake hooked to a bucket by the way.

Patent No. 5,482,483
Patent No. 6,695,660 B1.
good ideas. I really like the one with the toilet bowl float/valve. Someone has fried less brain cells than I have I guess....

east tx skier
11-17-2004, 11:20 AM
Yeah, when I first saw the toilet-style flow stop system I thought it was a great idea. I hope the guy starts selling them. Unfortunately, I'm guessing that it will be priced similarly to what's out there right now ($50 and up). My plan was to keep it simple and get it on the market for less than $25. Instead of the float valve, it would be easier/less expensive to just run a drain hose (or put an attachment for one) near the top of the bucket (sort of like a bathtub). Again, unless you leave the water source running and shut the boat down, the chances of it overflowing, in my experience, are really close to none.

Of course, the problem with oversimplification is that people will just DIY. Then again, there's some who will always DIY, and some who will always buy the real deal. One way or the other, it looks like a good product. It's topside where you can monitor it, it makes it easy to add antifreeze, and it isn't forcing water into the system (impeller pulls what it needs).

JimN
11-17-2004, 11:26 AM
I was removed on advice of councel? Now I'm bummed! :(

east tx skier
11-17-2004, 12:59 PM
Nope, the description of what I built, etc. Check your email.

Leroy
11-17-2004, 02:24 PM
Jim, (removed on advice of counsel). Check your email.

Leroy, I'm looking at several. There is one for something that looks like a fake-a-lake hooked to a bucket by the way.

Patent No. 5,482,483
Patent No. 6,695,660 B1.
Interesting, it's nice to see patents that readable! Most of my patents I can barely read after the patent attn rewrites!

If anyone is interested, you can view at http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm

east tx skier
11-17-2004, 03:31 PM
Great site, Leroy. I like how the first guy calls it a "reservoir." Looks like a 5 gallon bucket from home depot to me.

sfitzgerald351
11-17-2004, 03:59 PM
Yeah, not sure how the first guy got a patent for a bucket with a hose adapter on it. Sure doesn't meet my definition of non-obvious.

The 2nd patent I can see. However, I wouldn't buy the product because it really doesn't solve my problem. On our boats in San Diego we have a system similar to the flush pro in which we simply plugged a hose in and life was fine. Actually, all it was was a brass T-fitting in-line with the raw water intake hose. The t-part to the garden hose had a brass quick connect fitting that would shut off if the hose wasn't plugged in. The advantage of this system was that it allowed the excess water to flow back out through the raw water intake. The disadvantage is that you could quickly suck more water through the system than the hose could supply.

What I want is a simple way to to hook up a hose to the boat and flush. Right now the fake-a-lake works okay as long as you don't rev the motor and get a good seal against the hull. The next best alternative is to fill up a bucket and stick the raw water intake hose in it and the garden hose in the other end. The float is a nice idea to keep the bucket from overflowing and I might make one myself. But what someone needs to come up with is a quick way to connect the bucket to the raw water intake hose. Is there a quick connect fitting out there big enough to go in the intake hose? Maybe these would work? http://www.omega.com/Green/pdf/FLH.pdf Surely someone can find something better and we can come up with a nice little system for everyone to put together.

I'm thinking that you put the quick connect on the intake side of the tranny cooler and then have a longer intake hose hooked up to the bucket with float permanently. Then when you want to flush you simply unconnect (using the quick-connect) the hose from the water intake in the hull, and connect the hose from the bucket. Turn on the water and you're all set.

east tx skier
11-17-2004, 04:29 PM
Hey, Scott, what can I tell you, sometimes the simple ideas are long overlooked. When I was messing with the idea, the shortcomings I was trying to overcome were (1) forcing more water into the system than it could handle, and (2) not being able to meet the demands of the system. The reservoir solves the first problem. Essentially, you're moving the lake over the boat, which is nice since you can always no that it's working (which was my problem with fake-a-lake. The problem with number (2) is often using a garden hose. The engine will either tend to suck it dry when it's reved, or on a pull (as opposed to a water pressure push) you'll cancel out the benefits you were trying to seek from (1).

/I'm sure I'll read the above after posting and realize that it makes no sense.

The quick connect a la "flush pro" is the advantage of that system. But I don't see it as an absolute necessity as it only takes a minute for me to pop the hose off the tranny cooler and screw on the bucket attachment. Then I just crank the hose and start it. It's obviously not as convenient as flush pro, but has other advantages. It's much more convenient than monkeying with fake-a-lake under the boat.

As for the stop valve, having run my boat on one of these multiple times, its something that looks really good on paper, but would probably never come into play unless you turned off your boat and left the hose running. In my eyes, a more ideal device would be something that didn't have to be marked up to upwards of $50. It still blows my mind that fake-a-lakes costs so much.

Owners of these sorts of boats seem to be quite DIY minded. I think making a device that's simple and inexpensive is more likely to yield sales.

Okay, no more stream of consciousness for me. :uglyhamme

I think

sfitzgerald351
11-17-2004, 04:48 PM
I guess I get really irritated everytime I have to remove the hoses on my boat. It always seems like my screwdriver goes missing at precisely those times and since I don't have a garage it usually means a trip around the side of the house and into the basement.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp has some good stuff for not much money. Since we can't patent this stuff maybe we can have a little competition to see who comes up with the best design? Would we be violating a patent if we posted how to build something from scratch that looks like those patented items even if we didn't sell the plans or a product?

east tx skier
11-17-2004, 04:59 PM
Now you're getting to why I pulled the description of my design from the board. I think it's technically a violation to build a patented design, at least according to my patent attorney who said it's always better not to get one of those cease and desist letters.

Here's another thought, although it would involve getting under the boat.

If you look at the screen on your raw water intake, I'll bet it's held on with a couple of screws. Perhaps you could attach a quick disconnect of some size (1.25") over the screen and replace with longer screws. It would have to be pretty low profile so as not to be disruptive to the water flow under the boat and/or get ripped to shreds when underway (or maybe there's room to recess it). Then, you attach some pvc pipe with a threaded fitting on it to the quick connect and have it lowered into a bucket that has a good water supply.

At some point, like you said, it's almost easier to take your intake hose an place it in a bucket (well, not for me as my intake hose doesn't come off (at least not by my boney, girl arms)). :)

sfitzgerald351
11-17-2004, 05:24 PM
Actually, I think a maybe better idea is to have an overflow tube going from the bucket to the bilge. And this doesn't violate the patent. If the bucket got too full it would just run out through the hole in the bilge and drain from there. No float valve needed. Quick connect to the intake hose somewhere and we're in business. For me the quick connect to the intake hose is really the big deal. I hate fussing with the hose in the bucket and it sucks when the bucket over flows because you're starting and stopping the motor for some reason and don't turn the water off in time. Hence, I usually just use my fake-a-lake. I just pulled my impeller this year to replace and it looks brand new and is 3 years old so I don't think I've been doing much damage to it with the Fake-a-lake.

east tx skier
11-17-2004, 05:31 PM
Like I said, if you don't turn off the hose somehow, i.e., ball valve, when you stop the engine, it could overflow. The bathtub drain design would work well.

I've actually had the boat pull a fake-a-lake style device up off the ground with suction. When it released, it wasn't attached anymore.

Andyg
11-17-2004, 06:00 PM
east tx skier,
A couple of questions for you. How can the garden hose pressure over feed the system? As for under feeding the system what are you doing that you need to run your engine above idle for any period of time? If you are changing fluids you should be able to let it idle for about 10 minutes and you engine will be up to operating temp. If you are winterizing/fogging you will only have the engine RPMs above idle for a short period of time. If you are doing engine problem diagnosis at higher RPMs I can understand the concern.

This is what I have used since 2000 to run my engine when the boat is out of the water. Remember those old style nozzle attachments for the end of a hose, see the attached picture. On Home Depots website it is $5.86. It adjusts the amount of water from a fine spray to full force by unscrewing the nozzle. I attach that to a $.99 shutoff for the end of the hose. I disconnect the raw water pickup hose at the most convienient location based on the boat. My 97 LT-1 was after the tranny cooler. My 03 MCX is from the pickup at the hull. Using the clamp that holds the hose I then tighten the clamp around the raw water pickup hose with the nozzle inside it from the garden hoze. Turn the valve to on and you are good to go. It takes all of 2 minutes to have the engine up and running and only requires the screw driver to remove the raw water intake hose.

sfitzgerald351
11-17-2004, 06:04 PM
It takes all of 2 minutes to have the engine up and running and only requires the screw driver to remove the raw water intake hose.

See, it's that pesky screwdriver... :)

Andyg
11-17-2004, 06:15 PM
And of course it doesn't work if you use antifreeze. I guess I just trust the fact that if I remove the hoses and plugs all the water will drain. Just make sure you use a piece of wire to make sure that there isn't any scale blocking the water out let.

Thrall
11-17-2004, 07:09 PM
sfitz,
I you wanted to, although I'd just buy an extra screwdriver, you could take your intake hose to a hydraulic shop and have them crimp on a hydraulic quick connector. A large one, like for quick disconnects on construction machinery. Then have another hose made w/ the corresponding quick coupler end to run from your bucket/"reservior" to the intake hose.
I think this is cost prohibitive, though, for what it takes to remove a couple hose clamps. Probably cost you ?? $100.

JimN
11-17-2004, 07:52 PM
For those of you who don't like looking for a screwdriver so the hoses can be disconnected, use a nutdriver. It works better and isn't sharp so it's less likely to puncture something. I use a 1/4" ratchet with a 5/16" socket, just because when I'm kneeling in an awkward position, using a screwdriver to remove hoses is a royal PITA.

sfitzgerald351
11-17-2004, 08:25 PM
Nutdriver is good. I usually scrounge one out of the back of my truck when the screwdriver has been taken out of the boat (again). It's funny. This really isn't that big of a deal, but it's one of those things that drives me nuts when I have to deal about it, but not a big enough deal that I either, get a dedicated nutdriver to keep in the boat or go get a quick release for the hose. Maybe I'll get off my butt now and make a fancy bucket that can't overflow and has a dedicated big hose to be attached to the tranny cooler.

east tx skier
11-18-2004, 11:14 AM
east tx skier,
A couple of questions for you. How can the garden hose pressure over feed the system? As for under feeding the system what are you doing that you need to run your engine above idle for any period of time? If you are changing fluids you should be able to let it idle for about 10 minutes and you engine will be up to operating temp. If you are winterizing/fogging you will only have the engine RPMs above idle for a short period of time. If you are doing engine problem diagnosis at higher RPMs I can understand the concern.

Andy, I guess I should've been more clear. The original idea came about (to me a little late) because I was trying to think of an easy way to get antifreeze into the system, something I ultimately decided not to do. When I first crank my boat up, it usually requires a little throttle (good old carb boats). This has, at least twice resulted in pulling a fake-a-lake off the ground (not high revs). Since it's under the boat, I didn't notice it right away (not a good thing). So I like having something on top of the boat. I don't see any problem with using a hose as a general rule. But I just like something that works more closely to what it would be if the boat were in the water, i.e., engine draws what it needs. As JimN has said many times, this will let you see just how well your impeller is pulling water.

Leroy
11-23-2004, 10:16 PM
JimN; Finally some pictures of the serpentine belt. The idler looks like it should be adjustable, but looked again today and it feels like there are at least two bolts into the block. The alternator has 3 or 4 bolts into the block. I'm still surprised there isn't an adjustment, hoping you know of something!! There is no way to look into that area, unless you have a mirror.

JimN
11-23-2004, 10:31 PM
Just in case, try turning the bolt in the idler both ways and see if the pulley rotates in a way that the tension is taken off of the belt. It's been a while since I removed a belt from one of those motors. I don't remember replacing the belts being terribly hard, though. You also have a lot of rust on the circulating pump pulley. I would clean it and repaint that so the belt doesn't get ripped up.

Thrall
11-23-2004, 11:00 PM
Leroy, I may have missed something in the posts, but the idler is spring loaded. Just put a wrench on the center bolt and turn to pull tension off the belt. Not sure if this is what you're asking or not.

Leroy
11-23-2004, 11:19 PM
Also, can see the spark arrestor, it is buried under the frame and difficult to shoot into.

Leroy
11-23-2004, 11:22 PM
Thanks Thall and JimN, that's exactly what I needed to know. When I looked at the idler, it looked adjustable somehow, and can see the piece it fits into. The bolts go into the block!

THanks again! :toast:

Leroy
11-23-2004, 11:28 PM
I realize the work these things do after seeing mine suck up 5 gallons of RV antifreeze in about 20 seconds, but there has to be something better.

Text isn't readable:
Most evil device know to mankind, located in the worst place possible! Actually was in good shape until I pulled pieces off.

JimN
11-24-2004, 12:15 AM
How old is that impeller?

Leroy
11-24-2004, 12:23 AM
New this year, I have all the pieces laying on the floor of the boat that I pulled off getting it out. Not sure if they are always this hard to get out, but took me probably 45 minutes with a pair or pliers. :mad:

If I flip over, there is no missing pieces, or are you talking about the bent fins?

jimmer2880
11-24-2004, 07:38 AM
New this year, I have all the pieces laying on the floor of the boat that I pulled off getting it out. Not sure if they are always this hard to get out, but took me probably 45 minutes with a pair or pliers. :mad:

If I flip over, there is no missing pieces, or are you talking about the bent fins?
It's the bent fins that scare me. That's why I change mine every spring.:D

Thrall
11-24-2004, 03:17 PM
Leroy, I'm pretty sure you don't have to mess w/ the bolts that go into the block (unless one's got a sloote hole on the pulley bracket, then this is your adjustment). With the serpentine belt, that idler pulley is on a spring loaded bracket. You can put a wrench on the ctr bolt thru the pulley, or some have a hex hole on the bracket. Either way, you just twist the pulley (down towards the crank pulley, I believe) and release tension on the belt.
For fogging, your engine looks like it's throttle body injected (looks like a carbureator under the air box). Just take off the airbox/flame arrestor and shoot the fogging oil right down the throat of the throttle body.

Leroy
11-24-2004, 03:43 PM
Thall; Thanks, I have it now for the idler. Mine had broken alt bolts that I had to drill and extract. Real PITA to get alt back on without using the tensioner! I think I'll have the dealer change to the new bracket (warrantee notice).

If you look closely you can see the spark arrester, cone shaped filter, and behind that is a ?? couldn't find post again on what JimN called it. Remove the spark arrestor and you can twist your arm/fogger in there if you stand on your head. :uglyhamme

JimN
11-24-2004, 05:35 PM
That motor is MFI. The big black part on top is the intake plenum and the injectors are under that. When I winterized those, I would get into the closest storage compartment and have someone else work the throttle while I sprayed the fogging oil into the throttle body. When you see a good amount of smoke, you can shut it off. If you don't know if that particular brand of oil smokes, you can try it on your lawnmower. You can also remove the hose from the PCV valve and spray it in there, but you need to pinch the hose to keep the RPMs from running away. It will atomize on the way into the plenum and get into all of the cylinders.

Kell
11-25-2004, 02:57 AM
Leroy,

I have the LTR (99), but the picture of the motor looks exactly the same as mine. However, it does look like your flame arestor is different. Mine is a black retangular box where yours looks like it is round. I've attached your previousl picture with some edits for the benefit of others trying to id parts. The "red" arrow points to the flame or spark arestor and the blue arrow points to what I believe is the throttle body (JimN?).

When I fogged, I used a mirror to look into the throttle body (you will see a circular plate that moves to an open position as you move the throttle at the helm or on the side of the throttle body there is a circular part that has a spring on it which also moves the circular plate. In the center of that circular plate there is a small hole, which if you put your finger over it you'll feel a vaccum or suction. Anyway, I put the plastic straw that came with the fogging oil right into that hole and sprayed away. However, I never did get any smoke during the fogging procedure. I used the West Marine brand of fogging oil, so perhaps there are other brands that do smoke. Can anyone recommend a brand that does smoke, as this was the step that was confusing for me...eg, how long to spray the fogging oil. Also, when I started spraying oil, the engine rpms droped, but then resumed to what I would call normal rpms at idle. JimN, you mentioned that you would have a helper move the throttle while you spray the oil? What rpm would you have them hold the throttle at? I guess, this could also be why I didn't get any smoke and I should have used a helper to advance the rpms a tad.

JimN
11-25-2004, 10:32 AM
Kell- the blue arrow does point to the throttle body, but in 2000, Rochester changed the plate and omitted the hole. If they had told MC and Indmar that they were going to do it, there wouldn't have been a problem, but they didn't and there were some boats that had hot start issues until they were recalibrated. The other person is more for shutting it down than for working the throttle since the cable can be removed and the lever moved by the person spraying the oil in.

With it idling, spray some oil in and periodically rev it up a bit. As soon as the oil is sucked into a small orifice, it atomizes, so it will definitely get into the cylinders if the air is moving fast enough. As far as brand of oil, I got mine at NAPA and it definitely smokes, but like I said before, if you want to ask the smart guy at the store or try it on a lawnmower, you'll know what to expect and look for. I don't know what brands are available near you, so it's hard for me to recommend one.

If it's already cold near you, keep the can of fogging oil inside overnight before you fog it. If it's too cold, it'll just dribble out when you try to spray it.

Kell
11-26-2004, 03:20 AM
Thanks JimN, I have a NAPA store near me so next year I'll use their brand of fogging oil. In my case with the throttle body plate and the little hole, would you use the plastic straw and place it in the little hole or just spray without the plastic straw towards the throttle body plate? :confused:

JimN
11-26-2004, 10:15 AM
If you spray into the hole, make sure the straw is tightly inserted in the nozzle. Someone else had theirs come out and get sucked into the intake. If you want, to spray at the throttle plate, put a rag under the throttle body in case you have some dripping oil. It will still get in there whether the straw is used or not- it just needs to hit the area where the intake air is moving fastest so it can atomize.