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Tom023
06-06-2006, 02:18 PM
I heard today Houston is getting their first E85 station and the price per gallon is about 30 cents (10%) less than gasoline. The energy content of E85 is about 27% less than gasoline, so the net would be an increase in cost for the same mileage driven due to the reduction in miles driven per gallon of E85.

For those of you in the midwest that have access to E85 and use it, realistically how much of a reduction in mileage do you see per gallon? How much cheaper is it than gasoline?

86Craft
06-06-2006, 02:21 PM
Right now it is only 10 cent cheaper than gas in northern Ohio. I do not use it yet, as I would have to travel 20 miles to get it.

bigmac
06-06-2006, 02:44 PM
The GMC Sierra I just bought is capable of E85, but there's only one station for about a 50 mile radius that carries it. However, I know that at least one big chain up here (Holiday) has plans to carry E85. Right now, E85 is about $.55 cheaper than 87 octane. Mileage reportedly drops about 3-5 mpg. I think it's about a wash right now, and I suspect that E85 will get more expensives since its price is subject to the silly whims and infighting of politicians. Once it gets popular, they'll either just decrease the corn subsidies, or increase the taxes until it's the same price as 87 octane./

tommcat
06-06-2006, 02:44 PM
your cost is not the main advantage to using it. it is a reduction in use of fossil fuels that is the big selling point.

86Craft
06-06-2006, 03:38 PM
your cost is not the main advantage to using it. it is a reduction in use of fossil fuels that is the big selling point.

Great Point.
The corn refinerys (which are starting to pop up all over the place) will control the prices, along with the taxes. But we will get out from underneath the fossil fuel rock that has been crushing us.

Datdude
06-06-2006, 06:40 PM
There is a gas station in Central Wisconsin that is offering E85. The last time I drove by there(about a month ago) regular gas was $2.99 per gallon and the E85 was $1.99 per gallon. It looked funny to see a 1.99 on a price board at a gas station.......when was the last time anyone saw that?

88 PS190
06-06-2006, 07:39 PM
In the midwest E85 is quite a bit cheaper, and in Iowa and western IL there are alot of Midgrade fuels at 10 cents less than regular due to increased ethanol E15 I think.

The mpg reduction can be mitigated by using an engine designed to run the fuel well.

The fossil fuel thing drives lots of people, think of all the Biodiesel co ops that if you add their time to gather the oil and run the chemical conversion they do not save money, but they don't burn fossil fuel.

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 09:48 AM
E85 is everywhere around here. It's about .40 cheaper last time I looked a few days ago (I don't look often in fear it would led me back to the dealer for a trade in). I also thought I read that there is an INcrease in Torque with it.
The fossil fuel selling point is correct. The last time I stopped in the dealer, they had some reading materials on why it's "better". I should have picked some up, but again, I am not preparred to trade in the truck yet...:(
I am sold on it.

tommcat
06-07-2006, 10:27 AM
E85 is everywhere around here. It's about .40 cheaper last time I looked a few days ago (I don't look often in fear it would led me back to the dealer for a trade in). I also thought I read that there is an INcrease in Torque with it.
The fossil fuel selling point is correct. The last time I stopped in the dealer, they had some reading materials on why it's "better". I should have picked some up, but again, I am not preparred to trade in the truck yet...:(
I am sold on it.
When you're ready to trade in let me know if you have any questions. i'm fully trained and certified in alternative fuel vehicles for Ford. including hybrid and flex fuel(E85)

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 11:45 AM
When you're ready to trade in let me know if you have any questions. i'm fully trained and certified in alternative fuel vehicles for Ford. including hybrid and flex fuel(E85)
I'm ready, but I don't drive it. It's my wife that needs the convincing. The candidate is an 04 Yukon. I'd guess its got about 15K on it now, almost as much as my '06 has.....:o
It looks like Ford is going to be pushing the E85 too, huh? The super chief is a tri-fuel concept. That is cool too. I am not sold on the hydrogen yet, but I would be interested it learning more about it.

Tom023
06-07-2006, 11:57 AM
Ford and GM have built millions of E85 capable vehicles for the past 10 years or so for CAFE credits, you just couldn't find the fuel. But now with fuel prices up, GM's advertising campaign and more infrastructure in place, awareness is growing and hopefully the fuel with take off with consumers. Another alternative is CNG, but lack of dual fuel capability doesn't make that a good choice for consumers right now. The cool thing about CNG is that you can have a refueling station in your garage hooked up to your natural gas. Connect it at night and have a full tank in the morning.

tommcat
06-07-2006, 11:58 AM
The funny thing is i keep seeing GMs commercials talking about how their vehicles are now able to run E85, like its new technology. the ford rangers and taurus have had flex fuel since the mid 90s. the fuel just hasnt been available here yet.
it's not new, it's just that high fuel costs are getting people to consider something alternative.

tommcat
06-07-2006, 12:00 PM
Ford and GM have built millions of E85 capable vehicles for the past 10 years or so for CAFE credits, you just couldn't find the fuel. But now with fuel prices up, GM's advertising campaign and more infrastructure in place, awareness is growing and hopefully the fuel with take off with consumers. Another alternative is CNG, but lack of dual fuel capability doesn't make that a good choice for consumers right now. The cool thing about CNG is that you can have a refueling station in your garage hooked up to your natural gas. Connect it at night and have a full tank in the morning.the downside we found with CNG is that people are just scared of it. everyone thinks they'll blow up in an accident. which is completely false

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 12:00 PM
Then why can't I run it in my '04 GMC?

tommcat
06-07-2006, 12:03 PM
Then why can't I run it in my '04 GMC?
the vehicle needs to know it's running it so the PCM can make some adjustments with the engine calibration. a non flex fuel vehicle just doesnt have the capability. while it would run on it the performance would be very poor.
the older vehicles used an actual sensor in the fuel system to check fuel type. now they monitor O2 sensors and can tell what fuel is in it by the way the car is running. it's a little more complicated than that but that is the overall theory behind it.

Tom023
06-07-2006, 12:09 PM
the downside we found with CNG is that people are just scared of it. everyone thinks they'll blow up in an accident. which is completely false

Plus those CNG tanks take up a LOT of room, but if the car were designed for it there would be better solutions. The few I drove had pretty short range, but for a commuter car it makes a lot of sense.

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 12:12 PM
so the original taurus with the e85 had a sensor in the tank? Or were you saying the taurus was a natural gas car?

Tom023
06-07-2006, 12:18 PM
When Ford went to E85 capable, the sensor was a module in-line with the fuel line that could read what % of the fuel was ethanol. Since people would sometimes put gasoline, and sometimes ethanol, the % mix could really be anything. Ford also had CNG Crown Vics for fleets, and one or two others IIRC.

zberger
06-07-2006, 12:28 PM
The Irony is that the filling stations don't want this gas..

There is 1 filling station in Omaha that sells E85.. 1 and I live in NEBRASKA There is corn growing in 3 directions less than 5 miles from my apartment. I mean come on.

And where is the filling station?

Downtown.. :uglyhamme

makes ZERO sense to me..

but big oil is happy.. :rant:

tommcat
06-07-2006, 12:30 PM
so the original taurus with the e85 had a sensor in the tank? Or were you saying the taurus was a natural gas car?
The older Flex Fuel(E85) taurus had a sensor in the fuel line.

i did also used to work on a CNG and propane taurus here and there but they're almost non existant now. no parts are available for them so people just scrap them when they break.

jimmer2880
06-07-2006, 12:56 PM
I read online somewhere (so it must be true), that if you were to build an engine to run only e85, if you would increase the compression (beyond stock), you would get more performance than if you ran straight Gas.

Is there any validity to that?

tommcat
06-07-2006, 01:30 PM
An engine designed to run on E85 only can outperform a gasoline engine. same goes for propane and CNG.
someone built a vette a few years back that ran on E85, i believe it was making in the 500 horse range. they called it the Cornvette

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 02:47 PM
This may be slightly off topic, but wasn't there also a funny car dragster that ran ethanol against top fuel funny cars?
I could swear I remember the driver being a farmer and sponsored the car himself if I recall.

shepherd
06-07-2006, 02:57 PM
they called it the Cornvette

Now, that's just corny. :cool:

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 03:07 PM
Now, that's just corny. :cool:
If you have a cornvette, and it runs on corn juice.
Would you call where you put the fuel a cornhole?:friday:

tommcat
06-07-2006, 03:43 PM
If you have a cornvette, and it runs on corn juice.
Would you call where you put the fuel a cornhole?:friday:
yes, i believe you are correct.

Workin' 4 Toys
06-07-2006, 03:55 PM
And the "fueler" would be the cornholio.......


(yes UMP I beat you to it)