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View Full Version : How to add ballast bags to KGB system????


prostar205
06-05-2006, 05:37 PM
My buddies and I are just starting to wakesurf (we are going out on our first lesson this Wednesday, June 7th). We have been told that my X30 with the standard KGB Ballast system will need additional Fat Sacs to make the wake surfable. I would like to know the following from people that hopefully have done this to their boats.

1) Which ballast bags did you add (Fat Sac, etc...)?
2) How big and how many?
3) Can you get them to fill using the factory ballast pumps and somehow splice them into the factory ballast system?

Thanks for the help.

Tom023
06-05-2006, 05:42 PM
I've surfed off mine with no problems with just the KGB system, but I'm no expert on wake characteristics. You'll need to be able to fine tune the speed, and the PP is perfect for this. I found just around 10 MPH worked best for my set up.

djhuff
06-05-2006, 05:50 PM
Whatever you do, make sure you still have some weight up front. We would surf that boat with a 500# sac on the seats on the side of the boat you are surfing on, and then people evenly spaced down the side (not alot of weight, but suited my needs). Don't forget to put someone up front or the wake will get really washy.

the 30 is a great surfing boat, when you get it dialed (right people in the right places more so than sacs) the wake is big, and long. Lots of recovery time when trying new tricks.

prostar205
06-05-2006, 05:57 PM
djhuff -

You are talking about adding a 500 lb sac on top of the standard ballast bags in the X30 - correct?

How many people would you have in the boat?

I just want to get up and I'll worry about the tricks later.

Any ideas on how to plumb the additional sacs into the KGB system?

djhuff
06-05-2006, 06:03 PM
I put the bag on the seat running down the side of the boat, not in the locker. I found that putting it in the locker put too much weight at the back, and I needed everyone towards the front to get the wake to clean up.

I rode with about 6 ppl total.

You should probably be able to get up and ride without adding any extra weight. It is a little tougher, but will teach you better technique.

I haven't done any plumbing, but I think MYMC has something.

prostar205
06-05-2006, 06:35 PM
It sounds like you surfed on the passenger or left side of the boat? Where should I put the extra weight if we surf on the right side or drivers side of the boat.

I wakeboard with my right foot back so I assume I will wakesurf on the right side of the boat.

rodltg2
06-05-2006, 06:37 PM
My buddies and I are just starting to wakesurf (we are going out on our first lesson this Wednesday, June 7th). We have been told that my X30 with the standard KGB Ballast system will need additional Fat Sacs to make the wake surfable. I would like to know the following from people that hopefully have done this to their boats.

1) Which ballast bags did you add (Fat Sac, etc...)?
2) How big and how many?
3) Can you get them to fill using the factory ballast pumps and somehow splice them into the factory ballast system?

Thanks for the help.


people actually take lessons in wakesurfing :confused:

PendO
06-05-2006, 06:57 PM
It sounds like you surfed on the passenger or left side of the boat? Where should I put the extra weight if we surf on the right side or drivers side of the boat.

I wakeboard with my right foot back so I assume I will wakesurf on the right side of the boat.

you will learn with your shoulders facing the wake, so start on the passenger side if you are LFF, drivers side if you are RFF ... as for plumbing ... you can plumb into the regular lines, however, we fill the fat sacks for an Xstar with a electric pump that you can plug into the cig. lighter ... it can be used for draining and filling, and we can use if for bags that get placed on the floor and next to the engine compartment (versatile, and requires no extra plumbing)... placing the center bag over the top of where you would see a ski locker in an I/O ... I will try to get my brother to post, as he is the one that got the boat dialed in for wakesurfing and knows what type of pump we have... 9.8mph on the PP works well for us. Put the extra weight on the side you are riding and put extra weight in the middle of the boat (makes the boat ride lower in the water = larger all around wake)

jlf
06-06-2006, 10:07 AM
We have done the fat sac thing for a while, we had a 500lb sac that we laid in front of the rear seat and then we put two 250lb sacs in the bow and this was in addition to the factory ballast and did not plumb them into the factory system, we used a pump that you plugged into the cig lighter. We got sick of filling fat sacs so this winter we changed our factory system a bit. We removed the factory rear tanks, which only held about 175lb each and replaced them with bigger sacs which now hold about 450lb each and they are plumbed into the factory ballast so they empty and fill with the switches. Much nicer wake, a bit more lippy and solid now. It was a pretty simple switch and if we want to we can put the factory tanks back into the boat. It is really nice too because without the tanks in the rear we have tons more storage if we don't have the sacs full. We can store the boards in the boat now when not usning them. We can actually fit a wakeboard in our rear storage now. We bought the sacks and then we needed some fittings too that was it, they sell kits to do the switch. I believe we got ours from Barefoot International.

We use this for wakeboarding not wakesurfing, we like it.

prostar205
06-08-2006, 02:24 PM
Thanks for everyone's responses.

I have narrowed it down to 2 options. I would like to have everyone's opinion on these.

Option 1: Keep rear hard tanks and add the Pro X V-Drive Sacs. These will add an additional 400 lbs to each side of the boat. The negatives I see are that I have to plumb them into the existing KGB system.

Option 2: Remove the stock hard tanks in the rear and add a Pro X Fat Sac to each side. The positives I see for this installation would be they would just take the place of the hard tanks and be relatively easy to plumb into the stock KGB system. It would also allow more room in the rear locker when they are not in use. The negative would be if 750 lb will be enough to create a good surf wake when only one is inflated.

Thoughts????

Tom023
06-08-2006, 02:44 PM
Why don't you run a test to see if 750# would be enough. Get some lead, or bags of gravel, or something and load it up and see what the wake is like. If you like it, rip out the tanks.

Diesel
06-08-2006, 02:56 PM
I would keep the hard tanks and add the Pro series wedges.

I would also add another ballast pump and plumbing dedicated to the sacs. You would only need one ballast puppy and could control it independantly from the rest of the system.

X45owner
06-08-2006, 03:12 PM
We surf our X45 with stock tanks, the wife, and two small children with no problem. Only need the rope for turns. However, I just plumbed in two 400# sacs to the rear and front (Fly High Pro V sacs). This gained us about 6 inches to the wake. Also, use your wake plate / trim tabs / taps (whatever you want to call it) to adjust the lip of the wake (up for more vert and curl, down for more ramp). Hope this helped.

prostar205
06-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Diesel - Thanks for yet another option. I thought I had it narrowed down to two. I don't think I have room or the budget for another ballast pump. Besides, after doing the stereo (thanks again for all the help), I am not really anxious to run more wire and get back in the engine compartment. The boat is on the lift in the marina and all I really want to do is enjoy it.

X45 - How did you plumb in the sacs? If I understand correctly, you added one in the front and one in the back? I assume the one in the front is on the floor in the walkway and the one in the back is on the side you want to surf on - correct??

vegashomeexpert
06-09-2006, 11:00 AM
We just ad a couple of phat people, if we can. As lond as they don't slip off the sun pad and break your swim platform bracket it makes an awesome wake. We surf all of the time with just the stock ballast with no problem. By the way, the learning curve for surfing is very short, unless you want to do tricks. We surf a little at the end of each day and it has lost its lustre to me. I passed on my turn last time. So.... I hope your lessons are free.

NeilM
06-09-2006, 11:22 AM
Save your money. Start off with no extra tanks. If there are 3 or 4 of you in the boat, fill the centre tank and the tank on the side you're going to be wakesurfing on. You've got enough to learn to wakesurf. If you learn to wakesurf on the smaller wake, you can enjoy yourself without screwing around with extra sacks, pumps, and 'stuff' taking up space in your boat. The X-30's stock wake is plenty big enough to learn the sport.

Once you get good at it, and once you decide it's something you want to do on a regular basis (we do it when it gets too windy for slalom or wakeboarding), then you create your own mechanical tsunami.

prostar205
06-12-2006, 04:37 PM
Thanks everyone for your responses. I went out yesterday to surf behind my X30 for the first time. As outlined here, I filled up the center tank completely and the passenger side stock hard tank. I got up but I could quickly tell that I needed for weight in the back. There were two people in the boat (spotter and driver). The spotter sat on the sun pad on the side that I was surfing on and it was OK.

So, I am going to tear out the two rear hard tanks and install the Fly High Pro X Fat Sacs (one on each side of the engine). This should be enough to create a nice surf wake and definate enough for wakeboarding. I am also thinking of having a custom bag made for the center ski locker that is 2 feet longer than the stoc version.

Anyone know what the market would be for 2 used KGB hard tanks and possibly the stock center ballast bag???

prostar205
06-15-2006, 04:40 PM
OK - The rear hard tanks are out. That was pretty easy. There is a ton of room in the rear lockers on an X30 without those things. The new Pro X Fat Sacs with quick connectors will be in early next week.

Now to the bow. Has anyone replaced the stock soft sac with a larger version? I noticed there is another 2+ feet available in the ski locker for a large bag. Does anyone make a larger bag for the front ski locker?

Diesel
06-15-2006, 05:57 PM
OK - The rear hard tanks are out. That was pretty easy. There is a ton of room in the rear lockers on an X30 without those things. The new Pro X Fat Sacs with quick connectors will be in early next week.

Now to the bow. Has anyone replaced the stock soft sac with a larger version? I noticed there is another 2+ feet available in the ski locker for a large bag. Does anyone make a larger bag for the front ski locker?

Fly High will make you a custom sac for the ski locker. I would run some calculations on the cost vs. benefit of adding 2ft. If you have to buy a $250 custom sac only to get an extra 150lbs it might not be worth it.

I am assuming you went with the 400lbs sacs in the rear?? How much are you gaining over the factory hard tanks? You might consider having a pair of oversized custom sacs made for the rear at 600-750lbs each. I know rear weight helps my surf wake much more than front weight however, front weight is a must for a clean wakeboarding wake.

prostar205
06-15-2006, 06:01 PM
Diesel -

I went with the 750 lb Fat Sac in each rear locker. After removing the hard tanks, which only held 175 lbs each, there is a ton of room in their. Each Fat Sac measures 50"x20"x20". It will almost completely fill each rear locker. They will be filled with the existing Jabsco pumps - one for each bag.

Diesel
06-16-2006, 10:39 AM
Diesel -

I went with the 750 lb Fat Sac in each rear locker. After removing the hard tanks, which only held 175 lbs each, there is a ton of room in their. Each Fat Sac measures 50"x20"x20". It will almost completely fill each rear locker. They will be filled with the existing Jabsco pumps - one for each bag.

Sweet! 1500# in the rear should be plenty.

I have seen other people build a new carpeted floor in the rear storage compartments to cover the sacs. This way they can retain some storage in the rear and it hides the sacs.

Have you seen the hidden bow bag Fly-Hi makes? It is designed to go under the seats an wrap around the entire bow storage compartment. I would go with one but I need what little storge I have up there but the X-30 should have a ton of room up front. Now that I think about it I am not quite sure it would work with your relocated heater.

One thing you can do to see if extra weight in the ski locker will help is to remove the factory sac, plug the drain, and fill the locker completely up with water. See if it makes any difference and then you should be able to determine if a large sac will be worth it.

jlf
06-16-2006, 11:07 AM
Prostar 205 you did exactly what we did with our X10 took out the factory tanks and added the BI sacks. we only went with the 400 or 450's which ever they were, with a boat full of people the wake is great for wakeboarding, at least for our level anyway. We are happy with the decision we made. The amount of added storage is unbelievable.

Just a note when you fill the sacs now we found we have to fill the center sac first otherwise if we fill the rear first the sacs slide backwards and pinch off the hoses and we had trouble getting them to empty, also when we empty them we empty the rear first to keep the sacs from sliding back. We actually loaded the boat once with the port side rear sacs still full, couldn't figure out at first why the boat loaded on the trailer so weird. When I opened up the storage hatch to put something away I noticed the sac was still full so the boat was leaning really bad when trying to trailer it. I guess we don't empty and fill ours all at once, we do rear separate from the front. Especially when emptying them, wouldn't want to run a pump dry. Also it takes a lot longer to fill the sacs now so we start filling at the dock and idle to where we are going to ride so by the time the rider is ready so are the sacs.

We kept our tanks just in case we'd ever want to trade in the boat or sell it, really easy to switch back.

Eddietan
10-11-2010, 05:02 PM
I want to change impellers in ballast pumps. I found one under the back seat. Before I start taking panels off, can someone tell me where the other two pumps are?

ttu
10-11-2010, 05:06 PM
probably behind the back wall on the transom.