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6ballsisall
05-21-2006, 09:44 PM
Curious to get some feedback from those that upgraded to a 197 from a closed bow boat. How do you like the 197? What do you like and dislike about now having an open bow? Do you feel you have sufficient storage space vs. your closed bow boat? Do you use the open bow as much as you thought you would?

Footin
05-21-2006, 09:50 PM
You sellin again?

JEREMY79
05-21-2006, 09:52 PM
on again off again on again off again

Footin
05-21-2006, 09:53 PM
He needs the help of Erkle. Erkle can sell the old and sell the new.

6ballsisall
05-21-2006, 09:56 PM
Guys guys, trying to make an educated and objective decision. I've narrowed it down to things I wish I had in my boat and trying to get info from those that have done it and how they liked thier choice.

JEREMY79
05-21-2006, 09:57 PM
you need help buying or selling.....who you gonna call...."The Erkster" he can sell it all.

6ballsisall
05-21-2006, 09:58 PM
you need help buying or selling.....who you gonna call...."The Erkster" he can sell it all.

Let's just hope he's not a one hit wonder here fellas.

Cloaked
05-21-2006, 10:09 PM
I too am going to an open bow. The need for room is inevitible for me. Looking for something similar as well..

Tha big ol' 209 pimp ride of Mag's was nice.... Lots of room...

6ballsisall
05-21-2006, 10:11 PM
I too am going to an open bow. The need for room is inevitible for me. Looking for something similar as well..

Tha big ol' 209 pimp ride of Mag's was nice.... Lots of room...

You should've seen how many people/ballast we had in Bob's boat this weekend! 11 people PLUS a 750lb fat sack. :eek: Yep, it had a HUGE wake!!

Footin
05-21-2006, 10:15 PM
Boardbreaker liked the wake of the 209!

Cloaked
05-21-2006, 10:15 PM
You should've seen how many people/ballast we had in Bob's boat this weekend! 11 people PLUS a 750lb fat sack. :eek: Yep, it had a HUGE wake!!I was forced to go snorkling today in King's Bay river in Central FL. just inland from the Gulf... Hated to miss the gig but work took priority. I'll be around soon. Bob goes down most every weekend I'm thinking... :toast:

MarkP
05-21-2006, 10:24 PM
I don’t have the 197 but do have the open bow. The storage is Great in my 205.. I use the open bow to “store” at least two of my three kids every time out. Other than that, I use it for whatever my two regular ski partners bring. They each usually bring a duffle bag of I don’t know what, but I just throw them up front..

3event
05-21-2006, 10:36 PM
First MC, sorry no comment on comparison to closed bow. The room is key - we have a good size family. It's much more of a party boat. If you want to board with a gang in the boat and load er up you can get a decent recreational boarding wake - more than good enough for our use.

The bow seating area is fun to ride in. It allows for good video/camera shots of footers on boom. You do have to watch the turnarounds though, it can scoop up some water pretty good - fun for your fully clothed friends.

Admittedly, I dont throw skis or anything under the seat in front, just the flyhi pole and lifejackets. So if you don't want any gear laying around on the floor maybe get a tower and racks. But if you're just going out with a couple of dudes to ski, throw your stuff in the front seating area and GO.

It's a very versatile boat and my next boat will definitely be another 197.

crdickey
05-21-2006, 10:52 PM
I bought my PS-197 instead of a 190 because of resale value. I use it 80% of the time on private slalom lakes, so not much bombing around the lake. I keep the bow cover on almost all the time to keep any turnaround rollers from filling the bow. I also bought the bow cushion and have yet to use it.

Having said all that, my 8 year old daughter skis and is asking me to teach her friends to ski, so I'll probably be using it soon after all.

I did get the mini tower and board / ski racks, they are worth every penny keeping the floor from being cluttered with toe breakers!

The package looks pretty good too!

http://www.tmcowners.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=421&cat=500&ppuser=658

Leroy
05-21-2006, 11:02 PM
After being in 190's and 197's/205's/209's and my 230, I can't imagine myself in a 190 unless I just use it for skiing, launch, ski and take out. I do love the 190's wake, like Hoosier Bob's, I've never seen such a small wake....it just isn't there. There just isn't much room in there. I like the 197/205/209 size open bows. My 230 just has too much room for me plus about 6 inches too long for my garage. I would trade my 230 for a smaller open bow in a heartbeat. It is nice when couple of families go out and we have 8-12 in the boat but that is rare.

tex
05-21-2006, 11:14 PM
I have a 197 and love it. I wish that I had the 209 due to the extra size ! Sure the nose dips a little buy you can live with it. most normal skiers lie when they say then can tell a difference between the 2 slalome wakes. trust me, i've been around a few real skiers and boats. put a tower in it and you will love either model. I like putting the slimie in the front as I drive so that I don't watch my friend's butchering the water behind me!

PendO
05-21-2006, 11:39 PM
We use the open bow for the kids, pretty small for adults ... and with the mts ballast under the observer seat there is very little storage, except behind the rear seat ... I would skip the mts ballast so you can put a ski or two in there, or a couple extra towels or life jackets. As far as wake between the X-9 and 197 ... there is a big difference to me ... but I will beach about anything ... if you have a dock to park at get the 197, but if you have to keep the crew in the boat during the day get the 209.

MarkP
05-22-2006, 08:40 AM
We use the open bow for the kids, pretty small for adults ... and with the mts ballast under the observer seat there is very little storage, except behind the rear seat ... I would skip the mts ballast so you can put a ski or two in there, or a couple extra towels or life jackets. As far as wake between the X-9 and 197 ... there is a big difference to me ... but I will beach about anything ... if you have a dock to park at get the 197, but if you have to keep the crew in the boat during the day get the 209. "if you have a dock to park at get the 197, but if you have to keep the crew in the boat during the day get the 209"
Unless you want the perfect ski wake then go with the 197 and bring less stuff. Clear as mud.;) .

TonyB
05-22-2006, 10:08 AM
Curious to get some feedback from those that upgraded to a 197 from a closed bow boat.
Why is the change to an open bow an upgrade?

I would consider it more a philosophical or lifestyle change. In my mind it's sort of like going from two door auto to a mini-van. Not an upgrade buy a change in priorities.

mtripper
05-22-2006, 10:35 AM
I sold my 190 and got a 197 last year. I really prefer closed bows but the wife wanted an open on any new boat. I like the 197 because from the window back it's the same as a closed bow and there is still a full bench seat. The bow is good for kids while tubing and stuff but two adults is kinda tight, nobody uses it while we are skiing. I miss the storage under the bow but the trunk of the 197 is big enough to make it work and now nobody has to get up when I need to get a jacket or different rope out, so in the end I like the trunk storage better anyway. Ride quality is much improved in rough water compared to my old one but that's not an open/closed bow issue. If you need the bow for adults to ride you might want to consider the 205/209 or whatever it's called now. But, I love my 197 and for us it's pretty close to everything we combined wanted in a ski boat.

USC8791
05-22-2006, 11:08 AM
I've got a 197, but will get the 190 next time. The open bow is nice when sitting around but cannot be used underway (for the most part). If you have an adult in the open bow you will flood it 90% of the time when coming off plane. Ditto for idling thru a wave. You can always take it out of gear when a wave approaches while idling, but it gets to be a pain after awhile. Of course these are all big lake issues. If you're on a ski lake; no big deal.

More upholestry to clean w/the open bow too.

east tx skier
05-22-2006, 11:09 AM
I don’t have the 197 but do have the open bow. The storage is Great in my 205.. I use the open bow to “store” at least two of my three kids every time out. Other than that, I use it for whatever my two regular ski partners bring. They each usually bring a duffle bag of I don’t know what, but I just throw them up front..



Like Mark, I've got the 205. You will lose gear storage under the bow. But in the 197, you've got the rear trunk. My next boat will be closed bow, but overall, I can't rationalize selling my boat any time soon. Rarely do people want to sit in the open bow in our case. The little ones are not allowed up there when we're underway. A jump seat (if a walkthrough) is a good addition IMO.

Ric
05-22-2006, 11:35 AM
Depends on what YOU want JR

The 190 is the most beautiful boat of all time in my humble opinion.....
The 197 may be the greatest ski boat of all time, time will tell...
We use the hell out of the open bow
I got the tower literally for the children 6 of us can take a ton of ski stuff and go out for the day
2 built in coolers, (1 good one, 1 o-k one)
tower storage for skis and boards is nice.
tower keeps the rope out of the way of the crew pulling all but slalom.
little ones love to ride in the bow, which I allow during all but slalom.
my lady loves to ride in the bow which I allow during all but slalom
she likes to lean against the front cushion facing backward. I like that too!

You will get water over the bow in big water if you are not careful but that is rare and not a big deal for us--I've never taken water over the bow during slalom runs at all

I should sell boats, huh erk?

RobertT
05-22-2006, 11:43 AM
I have only spent a few hours in a closed bow, but have a 197/X7. I pretty much figured that the open bow was a waste, because there was NO way I would ever let kids up there while underway and its just too small for an adult.

I have changed my mind. We seem to always have a few little kids (2-6 year olds) on the boat, and its pretty common to have one smaller adult up front with their back against the bow and their feet on top of the walk through cooler with a kid in each seat left and right. Its safe, and gives room for another three people that want to be with the rest of us.

I would say that we use it at least once a week, which I would have never thought.

Resale is a huge issue too.

So, in short, I thought it was a worthless bunch of vinyl but now feel the opposite.

As far as rollers go, I only take on water in 3' chop when I cannot throttle over the waves due to being close to a downed skier. Other than that, a little throttle blip keeps everything nice and dry almost universally.

baedriver
05-22-2006, 11:44 AM
I love the open bow coming from two closed bow boats this has been my favorite. When I have lots of people with me and we are all planning to ski I just remove the back seat. I do not like people jumping all over the back seat. As far as the the bow take waves at an angle with people in the bow and it has not caused me any trouble.

vogelm1
05-22-2006, 11:50 AM
Depends on what YOU want JR

The 190 is the most beautiful boat of all time in my humble opinion.....
The 197 may be the greatest ski boat of all time, time will tell...
We use the hell out of the open bow
I got the tower literally for the children 6 of us can take a ton of ski stuff and go out for the day
2 built in coolers, (1 good one, 1 o-k one)
tower storage for skis and boards is nice.
tower keeps the rope out of the way of the crew pulling all but slalom.
little ones love to ride in the bow, which I allow during all but slalom.
my lady loves to ride in the bow which I allow during all but slalom
she likes to lean against the front cushion facing backward. I like that too!

You will get water over the bow in big water if you are not careful but that is rare and not a big deal for us--I've never taken water over the bow during slalom runs at all

I should sell boats, huh erk?

Ric summed it up pretty darn good - 99% of the above is why we chose the 197. We really didn't notice less storage, most of what we'd store in the closed bow still stores in the open bow (boom, high pole, misc.). The little bit of water that comes over the bow when an adult rides up there or our kids is OK to live with. We love it and would buy another.

RobertT
05-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Perhaps this is a good time to add pictures of why an open bow is an absolute necessity if you have members of the fairer sex with you. As has been noted before, the cushion facing backwards all the way in the front of the boat should have the following words embroidered....


INSERT HOTTIE HERE

If you follow that recommendation, and a little water comes over the bow splashing the back of said hottie, the back arching while screaming ohhhhhh .................................

Lets just say, it doesn't suck.

jkski
05-22-2006, 12:03 PM
I'm on my second 197 and after having had closed bows previously, would never go back. Don't quote me on this, but I recall the price difference between the 190 and 197 only being around $500 or so, which in my opinion, makes the 197 a no brainer. The resale value alone makes it worth it, especially when you can simply cover the bow area if you choose not to use it and you still have it there for resale.
I can honestly say that I have not ever ridden in my bow, and I really don't use it, but the market for closed bows seems to be shrinking daily and the fact that the pro tournament boats are 197's says a lot (not that I would ever be at that level).

It's a great boat to have.

nowakes
05-22-2006, 12:40 PM
I bought my ProStar 197 TT simply for resale. I prefer the 190 closed bow, but don't want to go through the re-sale hasle when it's time to upgrade.

I never use the open bow, and keep the tonnaeu cover on it to keep air flow through it to a minimum as well as keeping out any water that comes over the bow.

PendO
05-22-2006, 02:06 PM
I wish I could put the wake from my old 87' behind the 06 197 ...

Ric
05-22-2006, 03:22 PM
I wish I could put the wake from my old 87' behind the 06 197 ...
was it a softer or flatter wake than the 197? If so, how did your 87 compare to your 06 in the tracking department?

PendO
05-22-2006, 04:10 PM
was it a softer or flatter wake than the 197? If so, how did your 87 compare to your 06 in the tracking department?

Ric - I'd say it was both flatter and softer, but the tracking was worlds apart ... you could pull the boat around a bit (understatement of the year) ... also, it cold be that I was 16 and didn't feel stiff and sore the next 3 days so that may be the feeling I really yearn for. When I was looking used last summer I saw several closed 190's (many in great shape) ... with just a driver and a spotter the 190 is perfect, but I LOVE the open bow in the 197.

dwe
05-23-2006, 01:45 AM
I also went from a '95 190 to a 197 last year. The low bow of the 197 is a pain, but the boat is better in every other way. The open bow is great, and I wouldn't go back to the closed. We use the bow almost every trip - girls will fight over who sits up there b/c they can get sun, and be out of the mix. Last weekend, we skiid w/ 7 people, and it handled well. But, with 2 in the bow, and 4 forward of the pylon, the bow will take on a little water from just coming to a stop no matter how softly you decelerate. Pull from the tower, and space people out front to back, and the bow sits up fine. The hull is really versatile. The wake changes a good bit with that amount of weight too (good for wakeboarding, bad for slalom), but alteast you can get a great slalom wake and good board wake with the same boat. Also, I've found that the 197 plows before the bow lifts, where with the 190, you could raise the bow with just a little throttle input to get past rollers.

The mini tower and slalom/board racks/integrated mc bimini top really are worth what they cost. Not having to mess with the old fly hi and bimini is the best part of the boat (that and the stereo). And, getting the boards/skis out of the way adds a lot of space. I wouldn't get mts, b/c you won't have much room for lifevests, tools, towels, etc. Perfect pass is also a great option, and it really makes the driving easier.

NORTHERN LIGHTS
05-23-2006, 07:30 AM
test drive. don't buy for resale,looks etc. test drive! personal opinion.... the 190 will be a dinousaur very shortly. had a 190 for 15 years. the same complaint kept coming up over and over, more people wanted to come on the boat and there was no room.
the absolute hard core skiier will argue till they are blue the face that closed bow is best. If that's there preference, fine. World records are held with open bows and the flexablity that they offer are awsome.
as some other posters have said... resale of a late model closed bow is getting a little tough.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-23-2006, 10:27 AM
Perhaps this is a good time to add pictures of why an open bow is an absolute necessity if you have members of the fairer sex with you. As has been noted before, the cushion facing backwards all the way in the front of the boat should have the following words embroidered....


INSERT HOTTIE HERE

If you follow that recommendation, and a little water comes over the bow splashing the back of said hottie, the back arching while screaming ohhhhhh .................................

Lets just say, it doesn't suck.
I'll second that.......;)
This should be in the X7 owners manual....

phecksel
05-23-2006, 11:36 AM
Open bow!

I went from a Supra Bow Rider, and loved the open bow to Mastercraft TriStar closed bow. The bow area can lose a ton of stuff you'll never need and forget about. Now own the 197 and absolutely love the boat. Even if I didn't have kids, wouldn't go back to closed bow.