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rodltg2
05-12-2006, 05:31 PM
FIN TWEAKERS!! i ve never been one yet.

my fin is not quite at factory recommendations. it a about a butt hair off in all fields.

a) is this a big deal at my level
b) once i loosen those bolts , am in for hard time. bascially will i make it worse.

Thanks

east tx skier
05-12-2006, 05:32 PM
I'm very interested in teh response you get as I'll be undertaking this tonight. I'm also interested in how you calculated the BH deviation. ;)

6ballsisall
05-12-2006, 05:33 PM
Is a B-Hair larger or smaller than a C-hair????

east tx skier
05-12-2006, 05:38 PM
Larger, but please don't ask why.

rodltg2
05-12-2006, 05:47 PM
this how i got the measurement of the "hair"

Ric
05-12-2006, 05:48 PM
you have .038" butthair? :eek:

east tx skier
05-12-2006, 05:49 PM
Is it me, or does that sound kinda big? You sure that's a butt hair. ;)

Ric
05-12-2006, 05:50 PM
thats not a hair, that's the fiber from the chopper gun used to build a booo

rodltg2
05-12-2006, 05:50 PM
i cant start a new thread on the butt hair ...any advice on the fin!!??

east tx skier
05-12-2006, 05:52 PM
I think it depends on who you ask, rod. If it's .002 within tolerance, some would say that's fine. Others (or another) might say that if it's not within .001, you're going to be wide or narrow or something.

I don't have a clue personally, but will attempting to use one of those doohickies tonight.

M-Funf
05-12-2006, 05:53 PM
this how i got the measurement of the "hair"

ROFL!!! :uglyhamme :uglyhamme

Whoa...almost fell of my chair...

Ric
05-12-2006, 05:54 PM
rod
I am being serious
matt rini said, yes the fin matters at all levels
my answer to your q is this.. if your fin is 40thousandths off in all the measurements, how do you know? what baseline are you using for your numbers? where are you measuring from?
every body who tries to use a caliper on a ski is going to do it differently,,, add to that that there are hundreds of brands of calipers that are each a bit different from one another...

my thinking is that if you take your measurements, ski it, change something, record it, ski it, then the only thing that matters is YOUR dimensions the way YOU measured them...

Ric
05-12-2006, 05:56 PM
lets say you try to place you fin the same as wade cox's setup... is your ski exactly the same shape and size?
your fin the same?
how bout your calipers, are they the same brand?
are you holding them the same way wade does when he sets the fin?
see where I am going with this?

Ric
05-12-2006, 05:57 PM
.039" is a millimeter
.038" is alot of change to make in an adjustment.. you are going to have to ski it to know what you want to change I think

rodltg2
05-12-2006, 06:03 PM
i know what you mean on how and where measure from. just holding the ski different gives you a different measure..


the recommeded specs are
ski tail depth length wing
66.5" .750" 2.5225" 6.915" 7 degrees

i got
.743 2.50 n/a n/a

calipers were too small to get lenght , so i will wait till i get to the lake for that.

this is the guide i used...

sjk
05-12-2006, 06:51 PM
Rod, per the D3 site they ship at

Tail Depth Length
.775" 2.52" 6.94"
so you depth measure looks pretty good, tail's definitely out of whack, maybe that's bh thing... :eek:

rodltg2
05-12-2006, 07:00 PM
you looked at the nomad settings goofball :D shouldnt you be on your way to the lake to meet me to ski!

kpickett
05-12-2006, 07:24 PM
FIN TWEAKERS!! i ve never been one yet.

my fin is not quite at factory recommendations. it a about a butt hair off in all fields.

a) is this a big deal at my level
b) once i loosen those bolts , am in for hard time. bascially will i make it worse.

Thanks

I'm not a fin tweaker, either, but when I got my Goode, the fin was way off from stock. It wasn't hard to adjust. So, to answer your second question - it's not hard, and you won't make it worse. I used a pencil to mark the fin where it was in case I got into trouble, but it was pretty easy to adjust.

east tx skier
05-12-2006, 11:04 PM
Well, I'm done. Rod, if you can get it within a butt hair, you're a better tweaker than I. I got it close. Then I looked at three sets of recommended numbers for the monza. Some sets were higher. Some were lower. One actually matched up with mine. I think Ric's got the right idea. Write down what you have, ride it. Adjust. Write it down again. Scratch your head when the numbers are the same after you adjust. Measure again. Scratch your butt. Try to remember how you did it last time. Ski it. Repeat.

shepherd
05-12-2006, 11:24 PM
A guy I ski with had me changing my fin settings for a while there, trying to tune my ski. I really didn't notice any difference, at least with "butt hair" adjustments. Of course, he's a 32' - 35' off skier and I'm....... well, I'm not :rolleyes:

And yes, it is easy to adjust.

rodltg2
05-13-2006, 12:08 AM
well, i love the ski. im leaving the fin for now. got out an ran 15at32 15at34 then 5@22at34. gigving hell agian tommorow, hopefull get my 22's down

Blair
05-13-2006, 01:51 AM
so coming from a non skier here... how much of a diffrenc would a but hair make, and what kind of diffrence are we talking a bout?

MasterCraftNZ
05-13-2006, 04:21 AM
I think if your skiing a lot and your are really used to how your ski feels then a 0.010 adjustment is really noticeable. If you move the fin backward by 0.010 then the next time out it feels like your dragging a bucket behind the ski but gives you condfidence that if you stay on edge for longer to get wide you can scrub speed off more easily to make a turn at a comfortable speed.

Having said that after couple of sets with the new setiing you readajust and have a new norm.

I have spent a lot of time in the past tweaking and tuning with fins and have got some great results. I have just moved for a KD Platinum which I loved and messed about with a lot to a D3 X5 which I have deliberatly left alone with factory settings.

Is that an X5 that you are on now Rod?

One interesting and ridiculous phenomenom I found is;

Each time I move my fin I initially ski better and then move back to where I was. i.e. If I move my back by 0.010 I go out and ski better. After a few sets I am back to my old habits. If I then move my fin forward by 0.010 (back to its original position) I ski better again for a few sets until I readajust and go back to my old habits. I know this sounds nuts but I think it must illustrate something. Whenever I make changes to other peoples skis they as a rule go out and ski better straight off - how much of this is psychological? (ie trying harder as they are expecting a better result).

I guess the better a skier you are the more important it is to get the most from your ski helping your weaknesses out. I think most of us have a lot of margin for error running 22 off, 28off and after that it starts to matter more.

I ran 32 off once this season and got 1@35off@35mph. This was with settings that I was not happy with I and changed the setting after that but have not run 32 off again since.

In summary, I believe it is a science that can help you ski at your very best but you have to be skiing close to your best (assuming that your fin settings are something like in the ball park) before you can really benefit from the fin changes.

Chris

MasterCraftNZ

east tx skier
05-13-2006, 11:11 AM
So the trick is to stay two steps ahead of your brain with your fin tweaking. ;)

I think on the Goode website, they say no more than 0.020 adjustment at a time.

6ballsisall
05-13-2006, 11:33 AM
.020 is a big adjustment. I'd go no more than .010 for each set. One adjustment at a time my friend ;)

east tx skier
05-13-2006, 01:48 PM
I think there may be some lake bottom in my fin housing. That thing did not want to move at first (even with all the screws removed and lying on the table). Looking to have my first ride later this afternoon.

rodltg2
05-13-2006, 02:58 PM
yes, im on the 2006 X5. so far not fin changes yet. im skiing better on it than i was on the custom 4 , so im leaving it alone for now..

MasterCraftNZ
05-14-2006, 03:15 AM
So Rod how are you feeling your X5 is compared to the CR7 you have for sale? I am thinking the X5 and CR7 are skiing pretty similar (I rode CR7s for a couple of seasons before going to the platinum). Both great skis (the CR7 and the X5).

I did give both a 67 and 68 Monza a good go and could not ski on either of them. The only way I could run passes was by running them really late -which I hate.

Tried a sixam too but those Bio bindings put me off after two sets although the ski felt as though it was probably good.

Are you getting further on your X5 thasn you did on a CR7?

Chris
MasterCraftNZ

rodltg2
05-15-2006, 11:59 AM
i havent skied the cr7 in about 2 years . i coming off a d3 custom 4. so far im liking the ski alot. its an inch shorter too. first set out , i started at 15off@32 ran it smooth, bumped it to 34,ran smooth, then shorten to 22 and ran 5. this year i have not run 22 yet , so i'll be working on that now..

Kevin 89MC
05-15-2006, 02:41 PM
FWIW, I've never moved my fin in the 8 years I've owned my KD7000. Then last fall, skiing with Jason Paredes, he suggested moving my fin back 1/4". Who was I to argue? After moving it, I noticed a small change for the better, but not much. I'd seriously doubt I'd be able to notice anything under 1/8". Must be because I do so many other things wrong! My guess is that shortline skiers notice it more, but those of us "not yet realizing our full potential" like me cause more harm than help by moving stuff around. He did stress the need to record the original settings (which I still haven't done), and record all changes & they're effects, real or imagined!

east tx skier
05-15-2006, 04:24 PM
I got mine as close to stock as I could. Since then, the only change I've made so far is moving the front boot forward a bit. It helped a lot, but I think the back boot needs to follow as I started getting an awful spray burn on my back leg on my off side(first time for that). Once I get the boots like I like them, I may think about messing with the fin, but I'm not there yet.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2006, 05:12 PM
where can you find factory settings for HO skis? I tried their website and couldnt find it there. I have a Vengeance, and a Triumph both with adjustable fins, and I would like to check my settings.... :confused:

east tx skier
05-15-2006, 05:17 PM
Go to www.mattrini.com and email Matt. He will probably have something for you. Gave me some good numbers for my CDX. It varies from ski to ski (and between ski sizes and skier abilities).

Ric
05-15-2006, 05:26 PM
where can you find factory settings for HO skis? I tried their website and couldnt find it there. I have a Vengeance, and a Triumph both with adjustable fins, and I would like to check my settings.... :confused:
ump, check your packaging, each of those skis came from HO new with the stock fin template. Hopefully you didn't throw that away.

east tx skier
05-15-2006, 05:34 PM
Ric, have you messed with yours?

UMP, for starters, how are the boots set up? Where is the water breaking? Good rule of thumb is to have it breaking under your ankle of your front foot or so I'm told.

Matt suggested running the boots on the CDX like this. Move the front boot back from center by one hole. Move the rear boot back from center by two holes. That felt pretty good for me on the CDX.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2006, 10:31 PM
Cool boys! I will email matt and see what the man says!!! :toast: :dance: :popcorn:

Ric
05-16-2006, 12:01 PM
Ric, have you messed with yours?

UMP, for starters, how are the boots set up? Where is the water breaking? Good rule of thumb is to have it breaking under your ankle of your front foot or so I'm told.

Matt suggested running the boots on the CDX like this. Move the front boot back from center by one hole. Move the rear boot back from center by two holes. That felt pretty good for me on the CDX.
no, all I ever did with mine is take measurements from my asx fin setup and set my vengeance fin to match that.. other than that, none. I'm so inconsistent I cant justify making a change...

oh I did remove the wing when mike munn suggested that. other than that nothing :D

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 12:08 PM
I thought the ASX and the Vengeance was the same ski?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2006, 12:33 PM
I'm so inconsistent I cant justify making a change...
Now THAT is something I can relate too!!!!! :D :toast:

LakePirate
05-16-2006, 12:38 PM
Where did you guys get the calipers?

I looked at lowes and unless I plan on making wholesale changes what they had was useless.

rodltg2
05-16-2006, 12:46 PM
maybe a drafting store? or go to schnitzskis.com

Ric
05-16-2006, 12:55 PM
I thought the ASX and the Vengeance was the same ski?
in theory they are, but the vengeance has a new finbox and I am glad I took measurements from my asx setup (I liked the ski fine, but it cracked in the concave area)
HO sent me a vengeance (since the 04 run of ASX were gone).
the fin settings were different than my asx but as I mentioned earlier, that isn't comparing apples to apples.

while the vengeance in theory is the same ski, I have no idea if they are the same mold.... since I'd already shipped the ASX, I couldn't do any comparisons side by side.
first time setup measurements are only a baseline. I can't see talking in the thousandths of an inch and then compare my HO to somebody's goode etc.. just too many variables.

Pirate, the best place is to go to a local tool supply house.. get some cheapos since they will be in the boat :eek:
you need minimum 8" calipers and the foreign brands can be had pretty cheap.

rodltg2
05-16-2006, 01:04 PM
just bought a new rope, luckliy it came with that 43off loop :uglyhamme

Ric
05-16-2006, 01:13 PM
just bought a new rope, luckliy it came with that 43off loop :uglyhamme
rumor has it, the 43 off loop is made from butt hair

rodltg2
05-16-2006, 01:15 PM
rumor has it, the 43 off loop is made from butt hair

very clever!

Laurel_Lake_Skier
05-16-2006, 01:21 PM
just bought a new rope, luckliy it came with that 43off loop :uglyhamme
When you start using that loop you will have to factor in the angle of the dangle before using the caliper for your fin adjustments.

rodltg2
05-16-2006, 01:33 PM
i already do!!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2006, 02:02 PM
speaking of hair, how's your mullet coming along Rod?? :confused:

skisix@38
05-16-2006, 02:05 PM
just bought a new rope, luckliy it came with that 43off loop :uglyhamme


But, did you check to see what it's 43 off of?

Ric
05-16-2006, 02:29 PM
But, did you check to see what it's 43 off of?
speaking of that... rodlt are you running the switch?

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 02:46 PM
Where did you guys get the calipers?

I looked at lowes and unless I plan on making wholesale changes what they had was useless.

www.northerntool.com

8" Dial Calipers. $29.95.

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 02:49 PM
in theory they are, but the vengeance has a new finbox and I am glad I took measurements from my asx setup (I liked the ski fine, but it cracked in the concave area)
HO sent me a vengeance (since the 04 run of ASX were gone).
the fin settings were different than my asx but as I mentioned earlier, that isn't comparing apples to apples.

while the vengeance in theory is the same ski, I have no idea if they are the same mold.... since I'd already shipped the ASX, I couldn't do any comparisons side by side.
first time setup measurements are only a baseline. I can't see talking in the thousandths of an inch and then compare my HO to somebody's goode etc.. just too many variables.

Pirate, the best place is to go to a local tool supply house.. get some cheapos since they will be in the boat :eek:
you need minimum 8" calipers and the foreign brands can be had pretty cheap.

Ric, I could've sworn you had the Green ASX when I was down there last year. Memory is fading.

jmyers
05-16-2006, 02:50 PM
On my new ski should I worry about this butt hair? :confused: Way too much to think about! :rolleyes:

rodltg2
05-16-2006, 03:01 PM
yes! especailly while airborne..

jmyers
05-16-2006, 03:07 PM
yes! especailly while airborne..
That's what those little wings are for!!! :D

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 03:07 PM
On my new ski should I worry about this butt hair? :confused: Way too much to think about! :rolleyes:

What's your new ski? On my last ski, the only thing I did was play with boot position and take the wing off the fin.

On the new-to-me ski, I had to play with it because it was used and the fin wasn't set to stock #s. I wanted to start close to stock and go from there.

jmyers
05-16-2006, 03:09 PM
What's your new ski? On my last ski, the only thing I did was play with boot position and take the wing off the fin.

On the new-to-me ski, I had to play with it because it was used and the fin wasn't set to stock #s. I wanted to start close to stock and go from there.
I got the HO Vengence! I haven't gotten to ski it yet(no driver) :( So I should ski it first before I mess with I guess!

jbfootin
05-16-2006, 03:09 PM
Threadjack...

I once had an old welder tell me what a "c-hair" was...


It is a rabbit that lives by the ocean, and the spelling is actually "sea hare".


I never asked him about a b-hair though... :huh:

Threadjack over. ;)

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 03:18 PM
I got the HO Vengence! I haven't gotten to ski it yet(no driver) :( So I should ski it first before I mess with I guess!

I'd just take it out and ski it. We never messed with the setup on my wife's ASX/Vengeance and it skied great. If it feels like it's riding a little too far forward or back, you might play with the boots. Check with UMP. He emailed Matt Rini for some settings, which in my correspondence with Matt has included Boot placement, i.e., Front Boot, moved backwards 1 hole off the center hole, rear boot moved backwards 2 holes off the center hole).

jmyers
05-16-2006, 03:22 PM
I'd just take it out and ski it. We never messed with the setup on my wife's ASX/Vengeance and it skied great. If it feels like it's riding a little too far forward or back, you might play with the boots. Check with UMP. He emailed Matt Rini for some settings, which in my correspondence with Matt has included Boot placement, i.e., Front Boot, moved backwards 1 hole off the center hole, rear boot moved backwards 2 holes off the center hole).
I will check my current ski to see where they are set! And ski it! It would be nice to ski! :( My wife must learn to drive! :steering:

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 03:55 PM
I don't always have a driver when I want one either. My wife, my usual driver, works about a 50 minute drive from home. I've got kiddo pickup duty. By the time all is said and done, we are weekenders.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Threadjack..
I once had an old welder tell me what a "c-hair" was...
It is a rabbit that lives by the ocean, and the spelling is actually "sea hare".
I never asked him about a b-hair though... :huh:
Threadjack over. ;)

Hmmmmm , C-hare, Hmmmmm, Thats odd footin..... I have always refered to rabbits that live by the ocean as "Rabbits that live by the ocean" 8p

rodltg2
05-16-2006, 04:20 PM
I don't always have a driver when I want one either. My wife, my usual driver, works about a 50 minute drive from home. I've got kiddo pickup duty. By the time all is said and done, we are weekenders.

im the opposite, i ski during the week hopefull at least 3 times. maybe one last set early saturday. afert that i put the ski boat away and its off to the houseboat for some beer and relaxation...

east tx skier
05-16-2006, 05:06 PM
That'd be nice, but my schedule won't allow it. As it stands, I'm using my lunch break to run two miles. Work out at the house. Evenings are for the kid (until he learns to drive the boat). ;)

Ric
05-17-2006, 09:12 AM
I got the HO Vengence! I haven't gotten to ski it yet(no driver) :( So I should ski it first before I mess with I guess!
I emailed matt rini when I bought my asx(vengeance)
you can email him, tell him what line you ski and your size and speed and he will give you some numbers to start .

Ric
05-17-2006, 09:13 AM
Ric, I could've sworn you had the Green ASX when I was down there last year. Memory is fading.
the asx was the orange and blue flamed graphics and the green ski is the new vengeance. That green vengeance is what I had when you were here and I still have it.

east tx skier
05-17-2006, 10:48 AM
the asx was the orange and blue flamed graphics and the green ski is the new vengeance. That green vengeance is what I had when you were here and I still have it.

Okay, I'm just confused. Green was the 04 color as well. At some point, they went back to red I thought.

Ric
05-17-2006, 11:02 AM
maybe my flamed asx was the 03 color and the green ski is an 04, I can't keep up with HO graphics

ski is good though!

east tx skier
05-17-2006, 11:10 AM
Very good indeed. 2004 was definitely Green as that's what we had. 2003 was red flamed. Can't remember if they changed for 05.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-17-2006, 11:27 AM
Very good indeed. 2004 was definitely Green as that's what we had. 2003 was red flamed. Can't remember if they changed for 05.
Here's my 2005 Vengeance Eastie. Red,black, white

BTW, I havent heard back from Matt Rini yet about the fin settings.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/guitarzan1972/Vengeance1.jpg

east tx skier
05-17-2006, 11:53 AM
Hey, try this. Go to that thread about the new Mapple ski (MPF or whatever) from Radar that was up here a week or so ago and look through there for an email (hotmail address) for Eddie Roberts that I posted. He might could send you the numbers, too.

Big question. Why doesn't HO have this info on their website?

/edit. Call Wiley's. They might have them. www.wileyski.com

jmyers
05-17-2006, 12:18 PM
Here's my 2005 Vengeance Eastie. Red,black, white

BTW, I havent heard back from Matt Rini yet about the fin settings.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/guitarzan1972/Vengeance1.jpg
That's my ski too! I just have the Venom bindings, but think I might change to the animals!

Ric
05-17-2006, 05:09 PM
Here's my 2005 Vengeance Eastie. Red,black, white

BTW, I havent heard back from Matt Rini yet about the fin settings.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/guitarzan1972/Vengeance1.jpg
just use the fin template that came with the ski for a first time setup