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View Full Version : Mastercraft Cruise v. Perfect Pass


simply_peter
05-09-2006, 05:11 PM
Can someone explain the differences between mastercraft cruise and perfect pass? I have perfect pass now and am looking at a boat with mastercraft cruise.

Thanks!

east tx skier
05-09-2006, 05:17 PM
If I understand correctly, MC Cruise is more akin to the Perfect Pass Cruise, but also has a speed based cruise as well as an rpm based cruise. It does not sound as if it has the same level of functionality as perfect pass digital pro systems for slalom course skiing. For open water skiing, wakeboarding, etc., it's probably just the ticket.

In the download section, you can read about it in the 2005 Owners Manual, page 6-4.

vogelm1
05-09-2006, 06:23 PM
As ETS mentioned, MasterCraft's cruise is just a simple RPM or speed based setting...no way to program more than one person's pull characteristics. The one RPM or speed setting is saved, so each time you power up MC cruise, it begins at the previous set. You can toggle the speed/RPM up or down in increments while underway, however you can't "throttle past" the set point. Once it's locked you can punch the throttle to WOT and the boat speed remains as it is.

It's great for general open water skiing, tubing (cough), or wakeboarding. I've used Perfect Pass Wakeboard Pro on a friend's X-10 and there really isn't too much of an advantage I see. If you slalom ski through the course I think everyone here will pretty much agree you'd need/appreciate the Perfect Pass.

bigmac
05-09-2006, 07:17 PM
As ETS mentioned, MasterCraft's cruise is just a simple RPM or speed based setting...no way to program more than one person's pull characteristics. The one RPM or speed setting is saved, so each time you power up MC cruise, it begins at the previous set. You can toggle the speed/RPM up or down in increments while underway, however you can't "throttle past" the set point. Once it's locked you can punch the throttle to WOT and the boat speed remains as it is.

It's great for general open water skiing, tubing (cough), or wakeboarding. I've used Perfect Pass Wakeboard Pro on a friend's X-10 and there really isn't too much of an advantage I see. If you slalom ski through the course I think everyone here will pretty much agree you'd need/appreciate the Perfect Pass.My understanding (ICBW) is that MC cruise is an RPM hold - even in speed mode the setting is indexed to RPM, not actual water speed as indicated by the paddlewheel (so is Perfect Pass in slalom mode, for that matter - only in wakeboard mode at speeds less than 20-something MPH is PP based on paddlewheel information).

sand2snow22
05-09-2006, 08:12 PM
If you wakesurf, my MC cruise (2005) only goes down to 10 MPH or the RPM equivalent. Not sure about the 2006 MC cruise. Advantage PP if you want to wakesurf at slower speeds.

Also, I don't like how my MC cruise you have to go faster, sometimes quite a bit faster in order for the cruise to kick in and lock on the desired speed. I've been driving a competitors boat with PP Wakeboard Pro and you don't have to do this.....My two cents.......

jlf
05-10-2006, 09:05 AM
I have the MC cruise on my X10 it is good for wakeboarding especially if your driver is less experieced, they can concentrate on the water and not so much on the speed and throttle. I would say if you ski the course you would want PP, the MC version has no settings for anything expecpt speed and there are no magnets. Basically the MC cuise is sort of like cuise in your car/truck it just holds speed. As mentioned above it does have a few problems too, but overall I like it.

bigmac
05-10-2006, 09:27 AM
I have little experience with MC Cruise, but my limited observation was that it "hunted" a bit for a set speed and took a little while to settle in. OTOH, I continue to be impressed with the Perfect Pass/Wakeboard Pro that I installed in my boat. Accelerate til it beeps, stop moving the throttle and the speed settles in to within about 0.2 mph almost immediately. It's easy to set, it's easy to calibrate, and its sensitivity can be easily adjusted.

jkski
05-10-2006, 09:38 AM
I've run both, and regularly use MC Cruise in the course, however, the biggest difference that I see is that PP Digital Pro will compensate for the pull of the skier to help the boat maintain the proper speed/RPM, whereas MC Cruise does not. If you run the course with MC Cruise, my best advice is to enter the course "hot" that way your times remain on track. Otherwise, MC Cruise is great for open water skiing and wakeboarding.
One other thing I've noticed... If the water is rough, use MC cruise in RPM mode rather than speed mode, otherwise the boat will tend to surge as the paddlewheel comes out of the water.

bigmac
05-10-2006, 09:50 AM
I've run both, and regularly use MC Cruise in the course, however, the biggest difference that I see is that PP Digital Pro will compensate for the pull of the skier to help the boat maintain the proper speed/RPM, whereas MC Cruise does not. If you run the course with MC Cruise, my best advice is to enter the course "hot" that way your times remain on track. Otherwise, MC Cruise is great for open water skiing and wakeboarding.
One other thing I've noticed... If the water is rough, use MC cruise in RPM mode rather than speed mode, otherwise the boat will tend to surge as the paddlewheel comes out of the water.

I think that's true of Perfect Pass too (surging in rough water), especially on a V-drive where the paddlewheel is located farther foward than a DD. But on PP, paddlewheel information is only used when the speed is less than 25 mph. Higher speeds, as in slalom mode, use engine RPM.

east tx skier
05-10-2006, 11:18 AM
I've run both, and regularly use MC Cruise in the course, however, the biggest difference that I see is that PP Digital Pro will compensate for the pull of the skier to help the boat maintain the proper speed/RPM, whereas MC Cruise does not. If you run the course with MC Cruise, my best advice is to enter the course "hot" that way your times remain on track. Otherwise, MC Cruise is great for open water skiing and wakeboarding.
One other thing I've noticed... If the water is rough, use MC cruise in RPM mode rather than speed mode, otherwise the boat will tend to surge as the paddlewheel comes out of the water.

Perfect Pass will only adjust for skier pull if you are using the optional slalom switch installed. Otherwise, all RPM adjustments in slalom mode are either a factor of skier weight triggered by the smart timer at the entry gates, or a present downward rpm adjustment for the SSB (Second Segment Balance). In speed mode, it will compensate for pull I suppose to the extent that the pull slows the boat down. I have tried to free ski in PP speed mode (PP used to recommend speed mode for free skiing) and didn't like it at all.

Bigmac, I have no hands on expericne with MC Cruise. I initially thought it was solely rpm based. I was looking at the 2005 owner's manual and it seemed to reference some sort of speed mode. The truth is, I don't know for sure if that's just set speed based on an rpm value.

bigmac
05-10-2006, 11:57 AM
Bigmac, I have no hands on expericne with MC Cruise. I initially thought it was solely rpm based. I was looking at the 2005 owner's manual and it seemed to reference some sort of speed mode. The truth is, I don't know for sure if that's just set speed based on an rpm value.

Me neither, but I thought it was RPM based too. I read that insert in the owner's manual too, but I was suspicious that their reference to speed mode meant setting a speed, but that speed is indexed to RPM, like Perfect Pass slalom mode.

I think the reason I thought is was RPM-based is that the entire cruise-mode used in MC Cruise is built into the late model Indmar engines, and I was under the impression that there's no connection to the paddlewheel at all. ICBW, but I asked my dealer about installing MC Cruise on my '04. The cruise capability exists on my MCX engine, but MasterCraft didn't implement it on the boats until 2005. The dealer thought it might be feasible, but required a module and speedo. He said he didn't think there was a connection to the paddlewheel at all.

Ric
05-10-2006, 12:13 PM
it did have both rpm and speed
here is a pic of the controller
I dont know if it connected to the paddlewheel (standard equip) but how could it do speed mode if it didnt take data from the paddlewheel?

bigmac
05-10-2006, 12:58 PM
it did have both rpm and speed
here is a pic of the controller
I dont know if it connected to the paddlewheel (standard equip) but how could it do speed mode if it didnt take data from the paddlewheel?


In slalom (speed) mode on Perfect Pass (Wakeboard Pro), you select a speed (32, 34, 36), then you have to adjust the RPMs to match that speed - in Digital Pro, you hit the course magnet, timer engaged, and based on time through course Digital Pro will suggest RPM changes to get the RPMs to match the desired course speed. My understanding is that even with Digital Pro, only Wakeboard mode and Trick mode below 25 mph are actually speed-based (from paddlewheel) - boat speeds 25 mph and faster (slalom mode) are only based on RPM, which you have to manually calibrate, and have nothing to do with the paddlewheel.

My assumption, based on info from my dealer about MC Cruise (admittedly possibly inaccurate), is MC Cruise works the same as Perfect Pass in slalom mode - that is RPM-based only with no paddlewheel information at any speed. IOW, I'm thinking that MC Cruise works like Perfect Pass Cruise, except that MC Cruise uses stuff that is already built into the engine whereas you have to add your own servo if you install PP Cruise.

Perfect Pass Cruise has no connection to paddlewheel - I was guessing that MC Cruise doesn't either. ICBW.

east tx skier
05-10-2006, 01:03 PM
That was basically my assumption about how the two cruise controls lined up.

The thing about skiing in speed mode that I mentioned above was based on a previous recommendation in version 6.4. In 6.5, WB Pro now has a Rec Slalom setting that is rpm based.

Ric
05-10-2006, 01:32 PM
well then why do they have a speed mode and an rpm mode on the mc cruise?

I am also only guessing when I say that they must each use an independent source for their calculations and quite possibly mc cruise "speed mode" is not suggested for speeds higher than 25mph or even more possible, rpm mode takes over at that point??

bigmac
05-10-2006, 01:58 PM
well then why do they have a speed mode and an rpm mode on the mc cruise?

I am also only guessing when I say that they must each use an independent source for their calculations and quite possibly mc cruise "speed mode" is not suggested for speeds higher than 25mph or even more possible, rpm mode takes over at that point??

Man, I'm beyond the limits of my knowledge as it is. I would be curious to know if the MC Cruise does indeed use the paddlewheel.

Engine Nut
05-10-2006, 02:04 PM
In speed mode the ECM on the engine that controls the electronic throttle body gets its input directly from the paddlewhee on the boatl. I know that if I connect my laptop diagnostic system to the engine that I can read boat speed coming from the ECM. MasteCraft even feeds the signal from the fuel tank sender directly into the ECM so all of the data can be sent to the MMDC box under the dash on a CAN Bus.

Engine Nut

Ric
05-10-2006, 02:49 PM
In speed mode the ECM on the engine that controls the electronic throttle body gets its input directly from the paddlewhee on the boatl. I know that if I connect my laptop diagnostic system to the engine that I can read boat speed coming from the ECM. MasteCraft even feeds the signal from the fuel tank sender directly into the ECM so all of the data can be sent to the MMDC box under the dash on a CAN Bus.

Engine Nut
Engine nut has spoken......

......and it is written.

BuoyChaser
05-10-2006, 03:36 PM
it did have both rpm and speed
here is a pic of the controller
I dont know if it connected to the paddlewheel (standard equip) but how could it do speed mode if it didnt take data from the paddlewheel?
for those of us who have upgraded from MC Cruise to PP, any aftermarket replacements to remove the MC Cruise controller???

how about a beer bottle opener or a lighter or a cell phone holder or an ipod plug-in... :confused:

Ric
05-10-2006, 04:11 PM
for those of us who have upgraded from MC Cruise to PP, any aftermarket replacements to remove the MC Cruise controller???

how about a beer bottle opener or a lighter or a cell phone holder or an ipod plug-in... :confused:
I wondered that myself... my controller in that pic is now gone because the dealer replaced that side panel in my boat as there was a piece of that non ostrich print leather skin that was bubbling......

The little plastic plate that mc cruise controller is on is nice and it would be nice to get that same plate with no holes in it, but still have the machined graphics... then you could drill it for ipod or your beer opener!

BuoyChaser
05-10-2006, 04:15 PM
I wondered that myself... my controller in that pic is now gone because the dealer replaced that side panel in my boat as there was a piece of that non ostrich print leather skin that was bubbling......

The little plastic plate that mc cruise controller is on is nice and it would be nice to get that same plate with no holes in it, but still have the machined graphics... then you could drill it for ipod or your beer opener!
got me thinking now...could have my machine shop work on something...such a primo area...anyone know of the plugin plates that Nautique uses for ipod adapter...thought i read somewhere that MC offered these...would be a perfect place for it...or even for cell phone holder, can't have the cell phone taking up the cup holder...

east tx skier
05-10-2006, 05:12 PM
Because of the location, I'd see what kind of charging cradle that will also hardwire to the stereo is available and then adapt that the location. If you just plug it in, where will you put the ipod?

bigmac
05-10-2006, 05:14 PM
Engine nut has spoken......

......and it is written.

Yup...I'd take that as The Final Word...

BuoyChaser
05-10-2006, 05:35 PM
Because of the location, I'd see what kind of charging cradle that will also hardwire to the stereo is available and then adapt that the location. If you just plug it in, where will you put the ipod?
like the adapter from crutchfield for the OEM clarion, then can use the cd changer controls on OEM clarion remote
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=227550&I=020EA1251B&search=Clarion+VENDORID020&SearchDisplay=Clarion&secure=off&s=0&cc=01

problem with this cradle is that it isn't hardwired have to still use cig lighter... http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=7913&page=3&highlight=crutchfield

east tx skier
05-10-2006, 05:40 PM
I've got one with an FM transmitter that mounts on the cig lighter. I'm still of the opinion that I'll be just as happy with a CD full of mp3s. Fewer worries about dousing my ipod.

BuoyChaser
05-10-2006, 05:54 PM
I've got one with an FM transmitter that mounts on the cig lighter. I'm still of the opinion that I'll be just as happy with a CD full of mp3s. Fewer worries about dousing my ipod.your right about worryin' about drenchin' the ipod...FM transmitter is probably the way to go, which one do you use???

east tx skier
05-10-2006, 05:59 PM
I've got the I-roadtrip. Works fine in the car. Sounds pretty good. Charges and plays from the port on the ipod as opposed to the headphone jack. Haven't tried it in the boat yet as the mp3 CD has been all I've needed to get us to and from the ski spot.

ridehype4life
05-10-2006, 08:14 PM
Delivery of X-1 next Saturday; where (if they exist) are the cig lighter outlets on the boat for charging the ipod?

thanks

Ric
05-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Delivery of X-1 next Saturday; where (if they exist) are the cig lighter outlets on the boat for charging the ipod?

thanks
the 197 has one at the floor outside the observer seat base and one at the cupholder area of the drivers sidepanel

sand2snow22
05-11-2006, 03:54 AM
Delivery of X-1 next Saturday; where (if they exist) are the cig lighter outlets on the boat for charging the ipod?

thanks

Great question. There are two that I am aware of. One on portside of the rear bench seat near the floor. Most likely for extra ballast pumps...

The other I just found the a month ago. If you're sitting in the drivers seat. Using you're right had, feel the end of the black side panel. There is one there. X1 has been scaled down a little, hopefully they didn't eliminate these....