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Maristar210
05-06-2006, 09:09 PM
Hey guys, hope all is well....


I keep seeing these ad's for inflating your tires with nitrogen to enhance performance and tread life. I am skeptical, your thoughts?

Thanks - Steve

sand2snow22
05-06-2006, 09:42 PM
I guess Nitrogen is supposed to regulate the pressure better. Pressure stays the same hot or cold. They claim better gas mileage. Yet, it's more expensive to fill with Nitrogen then regular air? Toss up. I'm sticking with air....

SD190EVO
05-06-2006, 09:43 PM
Not in my lifetime. Air is free and I can fill up in my garage. Tires ain't that expensive that I care how long they last nor am I 'performance driving' such that I'd notice or care about a better ride.

Cloaked
05-06-2006, 09:47 PM
Not in my lifetime. Air is free and I can fill up in my garage. Tires ain't that expensive that I care how long they last nor am I 'performance driving' such that I'd notice or care about a better ride.So how do you really feel about nitrogen and free air? :D :D :toast: :steering:

Workin' 4 Toys
05-06-2006, 09:52 PM
CO2 is a better way to go if someone felt the need, click here (http://www.powertank.com/faqs#question22)

MarkP
05-06-2006, 10:54 PM
Hey guys, hope all is well....


I keep seeing these ad's for inflating your tires with nitrogen to enhance performance and tread life. I am skeptical, your thoughts?

Thanks - Steve
I have it in my trailer tires so they donít expand as much/at all, when on a long highway trip. Works ok for me, and it is free. They use at my CostCo tire dept.

88 PS190
05-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Probably alot better than air due to the lack of moisture content, and the fact that O2 is highly corrosive.

Farmer Ted
05-06-2006, 11:31 PM
Probably alot better than air due to the lack of moisture content, and the fact that O2 is highly corrosive.


well seeing that air is something like 79% nitrogen, you're getting a great deal when you use compressed air.

unless you ascend faster than 60 feet per minute....

Farmer Ted
05-06-2006, 11:37 PM
Probably alot better than air due to the lack of moisture content, and the fact that O2 is highly corrosive.

I've always heard Oxygen was highly combustible, but that's the first time I've heard it's corrosive.

You talking liquid or gaseous?

I've worked on aircraft for almost 20 years and have never seen corrosion on build up/vent valves that overflow liquid oxygen when the converters are serviced full.

I've never dealt with high pressure GOX but I don't ever recall seeing any corrosion on the front end of the system.

One thing that is common is when LOX converters condense and the moisture from the condesation will cause corrosion if the area is not dried thoroughly

but I've had a few beers so my memory (and spelling) might be off a bit?

JLeuck64
05-07-2006, 12:10 AM
Bought a set of replacement tires for my truck at Costco. Had the wife get them installed during one of her trips to their store. She came home with those funny green caps on the valve stems. "What the heck are these things for?" I ask her. She tells me the tires are filled with nitrogen. It's pretty new to me, but I guess the high performance guys have been running their tires on it for quite some time now.

As I understand it Nitrogen molecules are larger than Oxygen molecules so there is less seepage through the rubber compound in the tires. That helps to maintain the pressure longer. Also the Nitrogen dissipates heat much faster than Oxygen so the tires run cooler. Makes sense to me, after all the shock absorber folks have been using pressurized Nitrogen in their products for as long as I can remember.

I check my tire pressure every oil change and usually have to adjust the front tires a few pounds. I have changed the oil three times since we had the new tires installed and have not noticed any decrease in pressure yet. That's about 9 or 10 months now...

It is still just an experiment in my opinion. Time will tell if I like it any better or not.

Farmer Ted
05-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Bought a set of replacement tires for my truck at Costco. Had the wife get them installed during one of her trips to their store. She came home with those funny green caps on the valve stems. "What the heck are these things for?" I ask her. She tells me the tires are filled with nitrogen. It's pretty new to me, but I guess the high performance guys have been running their tires on it for quite some time now.

As I understand it Nitrogen molecules are larger than Oxygen molecules so there is less seepage through the rubber compound in the tires. That helps to maintain the pressure longer. Also the Nitrogen dissipates heat much faster than Oxygen so the tires run cooler. Makes sense to me, after all the shock absorber folks have been using pressurized Nitrogen in their products for as long as I can remember.

I check my tire pressure every oil change and usually have to adjust the front tires a few pounds. I have changed the oil three times since we had the new tires installed and have not noticed any decrease in pressure yet. That's about 9 or 10 months now...

It is still just an experiment in my opinion. Time will tell if I like it any better or not.



I can see a service center installing a tire and using 100% nitrogen, several years ago we switched our landing gear servicing requirements from compressed air (mostly nitrogen) to gaseous nitrogren but this was due to the fact that we're supposed to be servicing our landing gear with dry compressed air, our compressors are supposed to dehumidify the air prior to servicing that was not happening and the hydraulic fluid was getting contaminated with moist air causing corrosion and seal degradation resulting in leaking struts and more maintenance requirements

the fighters have been using it in their tires for a long time for the reasons you mentioned, more thermal stability at high temps

Now, imagine the Penzoil Oil Change place that touts "Increase your gas mileage" on their sign

"How can I do that" one might ask

well we can service your tires with nitrogen* blah blah blah

*the air you breathe, the air they compress to service tires with is 79% nitrogen

hence, we'll service your tires with nitrogen* and your gas mileage will increase

88 PS190
05-07-2006, 02:39 AM
Oxygen is the compound that is known as corrosion. Think of it this way, Rust, is Iron Oxide. Bluing metal on guns, is forming a iron oxide compound i think FeO3 that's black in color, and resistant to further oxidation.

Really oxygen is reactive, and therefore very likely to corrode metals. Some corrosion is desirable, bluing from above, additionaly the formation of Zinc Oxide, which is the basis for galvinization, zinc oxides resist further oxidation and therefore are "corrosion resistant"

Aluminum is a very soft metal, horribly so. Anodizing the metal builds a formation of Aluminum Oxide which is a very hard durable substance onto the surface (color is a secondary benefit of anodizing in which dye is introduced into the pores that form in aluminum oxide when electronically built up in a chilled environment, these pores then hold the dye and close when the metal is heated, forming the colored surface)

Pure oxygen is very corrosive, its therefore ironic that life on earth is so dependant on this element, and why its so likely that life forms on other planets, assuming they exist, would not use oxygen but more likely nitrogen.

And yes pure Nitrogen gas is a great way to fill tires. If you've ever drained your home air compressor tank of all the moisture that condenses in there when the air is pressurized you'll know how much moisture is still in that compressed air.

That said, i use a standard home air compressor to fill my tires, car or trailer but our trailers log less than 20 miles a year from the pole barns to the boat ramp, and back in the fall, with maybe one pull for service or cleaning. Tire damage is much more likely in our case due to moisture being trapped between the concrete and the rubber and forming rot.

bigmac
05-07-2006, 07:48 AM
Pure oxygen is very corrosive, its therefore ironic that life on earth is so dependant on this element, and why its so likely that life forms on other planets, assuming they exist, would not use oxygen but more likely nitrogen.

The connotation for "corrosive" makes it sound like we're lucky to be alive walking around in this dangerous atmosphere. In reality, although certain metals can "corroded" by exposure to oxygen in certain circumstances (rust), oxygen isn't "corrosive" to biological forms. In fact, oxidation/reduction reactions form the basis for virtually ALL carbon-based life. Nitrogen's basic inert nature, the thing that makes it optimal for use in tires, is the very reason it can't be the foundation for life as we know it.

However, nitrogen is indeed one of a few elements that might be suitable as the basis of some alien biology, but as a replacment for carbon, not oxygen.

That said, I fill my tires out of the big E-cylinders of nitrogen we have at work.

east tx skier
05-07-2006, 10:37 AM
Bought a set of replacement tires for my truck at Costco. Had the wife get them installed during one of her trips to their store. She came home with those funny green caps on the valve stems. "What the heck are these things for?" I ask her. She tells me the tires are filled with nitrogen. It's pretty new to me, but I guess the high performance guys have been running their tires on it for quite some time now.

Ah, I was wondering why my wife's new tires had green caps on the valve stems. Interesting.

lakes Rick
05-07-2006, 11:20 AM
WAY too many engineers on this site...

When I was into stereo more ( my younger days) I had to tell the stereo guy " Don't tell me about the stuff I don't understand, just sell me what sounds good"... The Mac gear I have still does the job...

bigmac
05-07-2006, 11:56 AM
I've always heard Oxygen was highly combustible, but that's the first time I've heard it's corrosive.

You talking liquid or gaseous?

I've worked on aircraft for almost 20 years and have never seen corrosion on build up/vent valves that overflow liquid oxygen when the converters are serviced full.


Oxygen isn't combustible at all, but it supports combustion quite well. If you strike a match in a 100% oxygen environment, the oxygen won't explode or ignite - it will only make the match burn faster.

Oxygen isn't corrosive per se, but it does cause oxidation. For corrosion to occur as a result of that oxidation, the recipient material has to be avidly cabable of reduction. Iron does that well, so it rusts/corrodes promptly. Brass and copper, for example don't, so they tarnish, but don't corrode as part of the oxidation/reduction process.

Footin
05-07-2006, 11:57 AM
Ill stick with air, it's free in my garage.

bigmac
05-07-2006, 12:01 PM
Ill stick with air, it's free in my garage.I have a big tank of Argon in my garage for the welders. . I wonder how THAT would work in tires...

I used to have a big tank of Nitrogen for paintball guns, but boy was that sucker heavy.

Kevin 89MC
05-07-2006, 01:22 PM
A few friends of mine who are into racing use Nitrogen. For daily driving, it's not convenient enough for me yet. If it were avalable & free at the local gas station, then I might. My :twocents:

TMCNo1
05-07-2006, 03:57 PM
I used to think when I was little, that I was a he-man, because my daddy would put 125lbs in a compressed air tank and I could carry it around like it was a six pack.

ski_king
05-07-2006, 04:40 PM
I got nitrogen in my boat trailer tires. Works so well I am thinking of putting some in the boat. :rolleyes:

TMCNo1
05-07-2006, 06:42 PM
I got nitrogen in my boat trailer tires. Works so well I am thinking of putting some in the boat. :rolleyes:


It may help keep the brakes on the boat cool too! :eek: :steering:

Farmer Ted
05-07-2006, 07:06 PM
Oxygen isn't combustible at all, but it supports combustion quite well. If you strike a match in a 100% oxygen environment, the oxygen won't explode or ignite - it will only make the match burn faster.

Oxygen isn't corrosive per se, but it does cause oxidation. For corrosion to occur as a result of that oxidation, the recipient material has to be avidly cabable of reduction. Iron does that well, so it rusts/corrodes promptly. Brass and copper, for example don't, so they tarnish, but don't corrode as part of the oxidation/reduction process.




I guess I've been misled or misunderstood for the last 20 years :(

Farmer Ted
05-07-2006, 07:12 PM
FYI if you are using nitrogen for your vehicle tires....

bigmac
05-07-2006, 07:16 PM
I guess I've been misled or misunderstood for the last 20 years :(

:confused:

The Air Force and I are saying the same thing; oxygen supports combustion, but in and of itself isn't combustible (flammable).

Even in hypergolic reactions, the oxygen only acts to support the combustion. Hydrazine and other pyrophoric compounds like sodium or lithium will spontaneously ignite at room temperature as long as any oxygen, including the 21% oxygen in air, is present to support the reaction.

Some oxidation/reduction reactions are more rapid than others. Rust is slow, rocket fuels like hydrazine are violently rapid. They are otherwise the same reaction.

jimmer2880
05-08-2006, 07:04 AM
What concerns me most about Farmer's post, is (if I read it right), that once you fill with nitrogen, you cannot go back to compressed air.

*** DOH! - Edit ***
I re-read the post. If Oil produced nitrogen is used, then you cannot go back.

tommcat
05-08-2006, 09:25 AM
we just had a company in here trying to sell us the nitrogen filling station for the shop, we turned it down. just couldnt justify charging customers to change the air in their tires.

on a technical note, it does out perform regular compressed air in several ways but i doubt anyone other than a race team would notice it.
there is less moisture which helps with balance issues.

pressure fluctuations due to heat changes are drastically reduced

it leaks out of the tire much slower than air due to the molecules being larger. regular air will leak out of a tire over time by just going right through the rubber.