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prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:23 AM
I am finally done. After purchasing my new stereo equipment back in Nov. '05, I have finally completed the installation. I originally was going to have someone else do it but that fell through. I then went to some local car stereo places here in Seattle and go quotes that were more expensive than the cost of the equipment. So, with Diesel's encouragement and help, I decided to tackle the whole job myself. I am so glad went this route. After dismantling the boat completely, I found alot more that needed to be done than just a simple stereo headunit install, 2 amps and build a box. Here are some pictures. I basically copied Diesel's install and equipment selection, but went with the next lower model stuff. Rather than the Kicker SX Series amps that Diesel used, I went with the KX Series. Diesel used an L7 12" woofer, I went with the L5 12" woofer. I did use the same headunit - Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP.

Here are some pics.

Headunit:

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:24 AM
More of the headunit. I had to cut away a portion of the dash to get it in.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:27 AM
Amp Install. The large bottom one is the Kicker KX850.4. It powers my 4 interior Clarion (OEM) 1632 speakers and the 4 Clarion 1632 tower speakers. Each pair of speakers are wired in parallel and then wired to a single channel of the 850.4. The top amp is the Kicker 600.1 for the sub.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:30 AM
One more of the amp install. Both are mounted to the inside of the passenger under storage area.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:31 AM
Here are the batteries. I am using 2 Blue Top Optima D34Ms to power the entire stereo. I also had my stock 51A alternator upgraded to output 101A.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:32 AM
Sorry, I forgot the pictures for the batteries. Here they are.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:33 AM
More battery pictures.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:34 AM
One more battery pic. You can see the location of the batteries pretty easy. They are on the right side.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:36 AM
I also moved the speaker behind the driver and moved my heater ducts. The new location of the speaker was were the heater duct was.

JimN
05-06-2006, 10:37 AM
Remember what EngineNut said about alternator upgrades- the charging lead needs to be upgraded, too. Most of the time, it's 10ga but it won't be heavy enough with ~100A of output.

Also, your amps will run cooler if you put spacers behind them so air can circulate there. 2 ohms makes them run definitely hotter and they'll last longer if they're cool.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:47 AM
Finally, here is the sub box install. I made the box using 3/4" marine grade plywood. It was definately the way to go for me. I first made a cardboard version of the box to make sure it would fit. There really is not alot of room under the dash of this boat.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:48 AM
More sub box pics.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:49 AM
And another one......

Here is the wood version and the cardboard version next to each other.

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:51 AM
Here is one of the sub box installed loaded with the L5. That thing absolutely pounds.

bigmac
05-06-2006, 10:54 AM
Also, your amps will run cooler if you put spacers behind them so air can circulate there. 2 ohms makes them run definitely hotter and they'll last longer if they're cool.

Important points. Those puppies can run hot, and with any impairment of circulation you can kick them into thermal protection, especially at the higher volumes and higher sub outputs people tend to run in an open boat cockpit (compared to an enclosed auto interior).

prostar205
05-06-2006, 10:55 AM
JimN -

Yes, I do remember what EngineNut said about the alternator. Along with the output upgrade, I also upgrade all of the wire (positive and ground) that run from the alternator. I used 2 AWG wire from the positive stud direct to battery one. I also upgrade the ground.

Thanks for the tip on the amp. I have a bunch of Starboard left from making my new kick panel. I will fabricate some standoffs.

RobertT
05-06-2006, 10:57 AM
Awesome! Great job. You just inspired me to go down and tweak my stereo a little.


In my X7 there is precious little room for a box, so I left the stock sub in the kick panel and added another sub in a box behind the observers seat.

I don't know if I am getting anything out of the sub behind the drivers seat....so.....I might have more room on the boat soon.

My next thing, and maybe you can give me some advice, is to install a fader/switch to control the tower speakers separate from the others.

I cant seem to find anything that will work easily.

Again, great job.

JimN
05-06-2006, 12:01 PM
If you want to fade the tower speakers, do it before the amp. If you're running only two channels for the four speakers, any speaker level fader will be big, hot and expensive because it will need to dissipate a lot of heat. Also, anything that gets really hot is wasting a lot of your power, ~3db which translates to cutting the power output almost in half (-3db IS cutting it in half). If you have four channels running the speakers with a y cord to the inputs, you can get a dual-amp balancer and not lose much output and you can tweak the input sensitivity to restore the loss. Increasing the sensitivity while using a speaker level fader will only increase distortion and will kill your speakers, the fader and most likely, the amp.

Ric
05-06-2006, 12:27 PM
Nice work!

O/T Where'd ya get the black donut shaped floatey on your keyring... I like that, as my dealer floatie isn't that pretty and gets in the way sometimes.

prostar205
05-07-2006, 06:01 PM
Ric -

I got the floatie key ring when I bought the boat. The dealer I purchased the boat from was Portland Ski Boat Center. Great bunch of guys.

kalanic
05-08-2006, 09:19 AM
Very nice work! Looks great! Are you running a stiffining Cap?

Diesel
05-08-2006, 09:51 AM
Nice work!

O/T Where'd ya get the black donut shaped floatey on your keyring... I like that, as my dealer floatie isn't that pretty and gets in the way sometimes.

You can find the generic ones just about anywhere. Overtons has them in just about any color.

Diesel
05-08-2006, 10:01 AM
prostar it looks killer!! Thanks for the pics and all the info on the install. :headbang:

If you have not already you should fill the sub box with some polyfill to help eliminate standing waves. It will tighten up the bass response a bit.

Also I am not quite sure the stand offs are necessary on the amps. While I agree with what Jim is saying and it does work with most amps I don't think it will make a difference on the kicker series. They have internal fans that continually draw cool air through the amp and does not use the case as a heat sink. I would wait and see if you have an issues before doing the stand offs.

Also you should be able to use the fader on the deck to control the level of the tower speakers. The tower speakers should be on either the front or rear channels and can be controlled via the fader on the deck. While not a quick as a an adjustable gain it will still allow you to tweak the volume level to your taste.

zberger
05-08-2006, 11:02 AM
prostar it looks killer!! Thanks for the pics and all the info on the install. :headbang:

If you have not already you should fill the sub box with some polyfill to help eliminate standing waves. It will tighten up the bass response a bit.

Also I am not quite sure the stand offs are necessary on the amps. While I agree with what Jim is saying and it does work with most amps I don't think it will make a difference on the kicker series. They have internal fans that continually draw cool air through the amp and does not use the case as a heat sink. I would wait and see if you have an issues before doing the stand offs.

Also you should be able to use the fader on the deck to control the level of the tower speakers. The tower speakers should be on either the front or rear channels and can be controlled via the fader on the deck. While not a quick as a an adjustable gain it will still allow you to tweak the volume level to your taste.

There are companies that offer this as just a knob.. I believe PAC does.

bcampbe7
05-08-2006, 11:03 AM
Looks great ProStar!
How long did the install take?

JimN
05-08-2006, 11:21 AM
Diesel- have you ever seen an amp in an enclosed space that didn't benefit from all the cooling it could get? The back surface of amps with internal fans will still get very hot, especially when cranked up. Open an amp and look at the circuit board for dark spots near/at resistors and output devices. I've seen amps with big heat sinks and fans shut down because solder joints melted. At the very least, the amp will last longer than one that is overheated.

Also, I took the desire to be able to fade between speakers as between the two pairs of speakers (in parallel) on two channels of the amp, not four channels.

zberger- If you're referring to a speaker fader, refer to my other post about power loss. They work but are extremely inefficient. Dual amp balancers are the way to go whenever possible. PAC makes some good stuff, though.

prostar205
05-08-2006, 11:30 AM
bcampbe7 -

The install took me about 6 weeks. I can only work on it on the weekends (I have 2 kids). Also, since I don't have a covered area to work on the boat, it could not be raining on those weekends. In Seattle, that is sometimes hard to find. I also took all of last week and worked on it from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm.

Diesel
05-08-2006, 11:37 AM
Diesel- have you ever seen an amp in an enclosed space that didn't benefit from all the cooling it could get? The back surface of amps with internal fans will still get very hot, especially when cranked up. Open an amp and look at the circuit board for dark spots near/at resistors and output devices. I've seen amps with big heat sinks and fans shut down because solder joints melted. At the very least, the amp will last longer than one that is overheated.

I agree with what you are saying but due to the construction of the Kicker amps I don't think it is necessary and the returns are minimal at best. JMHO and ps205 can make up his own mind.

zberger- If you're referring to a speaker fader, refer to my other post about power loss. They work but are extremely inefficient. Dual amp balancers are the way to go whenever possible. PAC makes some good stuff, though.

I think zberger is talking about the Pac LC-1 which works with the preamp signal.

http://www.pac-audio.com/products/images/lc-1.jpg

zberger
05-08-2006, 02:46 PM
Diesel is my boy..

Too bad you live in Oklahomo :)

prostar205
05-09-2006, 02:18 AM
Here is a picture of the sub installed with the kick panel. I still need to carpet the new kick panel. When its done, you will not even see the sub. My plan is to carpet right over the opening for the sub.

prostar205
05-09-2006, 04:45 PM
Can someone tell me what size fuses to use in my fused distribution block that protects both amps? I have a KX600.1 and a KX850.4. The 600.1 uses 2 internal (on the side of the amp) 30A fuses and the KX850.4 has 3 x 40A fuses. Currently, I have a 60A fuse in the KX600.1 circuit and a 125A (only because I could not find a 120A fuse) for the KX850.4 amp. I am using a Stinger Fused Distribution box.

JimN
05-09-2006, 05:05 PM
prostar- usually, the fuse should be sized so the max load is ~80% of the fuse. Add up your amp's fuses and use that for the main fuse size. That fuse is there to save you and the boat, not the amps, anyway. Make sure you fuse the power lead(s) within 12" of the battery + terminal, too. If you don't and the cable somehow shorts to ground, you will have a fire.

prostar205
05-09-2006, 05:28 PM
JimN -

Thanks for the info.

So, if I understand you correctly, on the KX600.1 amp there are 2 x 30A fuses, therefore the fuse at the positive fused distribution block should be 80% of 60A or 48A rounded to 50A. Likewise, for the KX850.4 amp there are 3 x 40A fuses, therefore the fused distribution block should have a 96A rounded to 100A fuse in that location.

Is that correct?

And, yes, the 4 AWG wire that leads from each amp to the distribution blocks is less than 12 inches.

JimN
05-09-2006, 05:46 PM
No, the load should be 80% of the fuse, so you need to invert that number. Add up the fuse values on all of the amps, then divide by .8 and you'll have the fuse size. Otherwise, your fuse could blow at high volume. You really don't need fused distribution blocks unless the amps don't have fuses.

The 12" I was referring to is at the battery. Your battery (or batteries) being at the rear of the boat have about 15' of cable going to the distribution blocks, right? If there's no fuse or breaker within 12" of the battery + terminal, you have 15' of unprotected cable. If that shorts to ground, as I said, you will definitely have problems. The current value for this one isn't critical but it needs to be able to easily pass the max current demanded by the amps under heavy use.

What gauge are you using from the batteries to the distribution blocks? 4 ga is way undersized for the amount of current these amps can draw and you always want to be oversized with power leads since overtaxed wire heats up under load. Hot conductors resist more, therefore, the voltage drops and current rises. Same thing as when a battery goes down and someone keeps cranking the motor, killing the starter, making the battery cables smoke, etc.

prostar205
05-09-2006, 06:15 PM
JimN -

You are correct - my batteries are at the rear of the boat and the distribution blocks are under the passenger seating/bow storage area. I am using 0 AWG Stinger Pro Series power cables to go from the batteries to the distribution blocks. Furthermore, I have a 250A fuse located 12" from the batteries on the positive cable. Does that sound OK?

I have 4 AWG going from the distribution blocks to each amp. Does that sound OK?

JimN
05-09-2006, 06:24 PM
That sounds fine, I just didn't want to hear that something went wrong and it was a ball of fire.

Getting back to the distribution blocks- since the amps are already protected, You don't need to worry about the fuse size, as long as they're larger than the amps would ever draw in a "worst case" scenario. Under heavy load, any connections are capable of compromising the supply voltage and each fused distribution block presents 6 contact points (one at the cable's input, one on each fuse holder input, the fuse's input contact point, its output point, the fuse holder output point and the cable output connection). A non-fused block cuts this number down to 2.

prostar205
05-09-2006, 10:57 PM
Excellent.

I kind of figured when I saw the fuses on the side of each amp that I probably did not need the fused distribution blocks. However, it made running my stereo's headunit power and ground easier than going all the way to the back of the boat.

The only minor problem I have had is the idle output of the alternator is too low to charge the batteries. I had the stater changed in the stock alternator (51A stock) to put out 101A. However, at idle (750rpm) the battery voltage is only 12.5V. When I put the RPMs to 1,500+, I get 14.2V at each battery. I took the alternator off and went back to the shop that did the conversion. They suggested putting a smaller pulley on the alternator to get it to spin faster at idle. The only problem with that is the alternator's shaft is .625-inches (5/8") and the hole thru the 2" smaller pulley is .675-inches. Luckily, at work we have several machine shops and one of my buddies is going to make a sleeve for the shaft of the alternator so the pulley will fit. I should have it back by Thursday.

AZHAWK
05-15-2006, 06:37 PM
prostar205,

Just curious... I have an '03 X30 and I want to replace the stock headunit. What adapter or HU cover/plate is that? It seems to fit the stock area perfectly. I picked up a used Clarion CMD4 which is larger than the single din that you are using but smaller than the stock XMD1 that is in the boat. Any suggestions...Thanks.

prostar205
05-15-2006, 06:59 PM
AZHAWK -

I got the waterproof cover from Overton's. I think it was $19 plus shipping. Forgive me if I wrong, but isn't the CMD4 a waterproof unit thus you should not need an additional cover for the headunit.

AZHAWK
05-15-2006, 09:15 PM
Yeah, you're right it is H20 resistant. I guess I'll have to get creative and make a base plate for the radio to mount to. How do your stock Clarion 1632's sound with some power to them? Can they handle that much power? The stock Clarion amps are junk and they probably make the stock speakers sound a lot worse than they really are. I am sitting on the fence on if I should change the stock component speakers or just get some power to them and let them rip. Thanks again.

JimN
05-15-2006, 09:59 PM
Set up properly, most name-brand amps are not junk. If you connected 20 amps to a good, clean source and the power supply was adequate and the amp's input sensitivity was set correctly, I doubt it you would notice a major difference with most music. A bad sounding system is very often the victim of bad installation and setup. Turning the volume and amplifier input controls to FULL isn't the way a system is designed.

AZHAWK
05-15-2006, 10:58 PM
JimN -

What?!! Hey, I am not an expert on audio but I know that all amps., speakers, headunits etc. are not created equally. I also know how to set up a system so that it is functioning properly based on its own limitations. I agree with the fact that installation has a lot to do with your audio equipment's performance. I will tell you that the set up that came with my X30 was not installed properly (factory stuff) to optimize its performance. However, I did tune it to its potential based on its limitations. I do not run my stereo at full volume nor do I have my gain controls tweeked to the max. I do however like to listen to music at a good level when I am boarding. Having enough quality power from a GOOD source will help maximize any speaker system. I am under the philosophy that you can never have too much power. Thus, you can run your audio equip. at lower (more efficient) levels and still have great sound at a naturally louder volume. Your ears may interpret sound differently than mine or maybe you can't fathum that a Mastercraft is a better finished product than a Moomba!!! The Clarion amps. are in no way comparible to the quality that you get with the new JL amp/speaker combo that are in the newer Mastercraft boats. Clarion has never been looked at as a manufacturer of "High-End" power amplifiers. I like the Clarion headunit and have no complaints with the speakers thus far. Clarion has their place, and it is not associated with amps. Unless, you want to blame it on the Headunit...nope...the older clarion speakers...maybe. The fact is, that with headunits being equal (Clarion CMD4) we have to assume that MC went with JL audio because it is a better, more reliable product(KEY). Even installed poorly, like most are, it sounds SOO much better because it is a better audio product that pushes more clean power! Excuse me for saying "Junk", I meant "Garbage"! 'Cause that's exactly where they will be as soon as my new JL Amps. are installed!

JimN
05-15-2006, 11:40 PM
I was a MC trained tech for 5 years and have worked on a pretty wide variety of boats ranging from jet-skis and pontoons to runabouts, jet boats, cruisers and tournament ski boats. I installed stereo and/or security systems in over 7000 vehicles with some being high placing competitors. I also judged sound quality at IASCA events for about 5 years, as well as selling audio equipment for over 20 years so yes, I know there are different levels of quality in this kind of equipment. I still sell and install home theater/distributed A/V and have done this in multi-million dollar homes. OTOH, I wouldn't expect a boat manufacturer to necessarily know the "proper" way to set up an audio system although they should have some of their people trained in the proper installation of systems like these. I would relay a conversation I had with the service mgr for another ski boat manufacturer regarding their installation "abilities" but we're not supposed to dump on the others here.

Everybody's hearing is different, the frequency response specs for hearing are based on averages.

Lower level (nor lower sensitivity) and higher volume do not go together. An amp needs to see a specific voltage at the input in order to develop its rated output power. Overdriving the input will always cause distortion and while it may sound louder, it's definitely not listenable and actually causes damage to ears. The only really accurate way to set up a system to totally eliminate distortion is with an oscilloscope so the point where distortion begins can be seen since human ears aren't sensitive enough at high volumes to perceive the lower level distortions.

You may think the Clarion amps are garbage but compare the price of the JL you want and the amp you have- they aren't the same and shouldn't be directly compared. If you don't like it, sell it on ebay and put the money toward offsetting the price of the new amp. There's nothing wrong with selling something you don't like, as long as you're honest about why you're selling it. Throwing it away is wasting it.

What do you think of the McIntosh car audio equipment?

Farmer Ted
05-16-2006, 12:12 AM
What do you think of the McIntosh car audio equipment?



Que up best Mike Myers impersonation.......



IF IT'S NOT SCOTTISH IT'S CRAP

AZHAWK
05-16-2006, 12:32 AM
JimN -

Your credentials are impressive and in no way was my response an attack on you or your experience. Now that I know that you are the real deal, I will bow down. Forgive me, but so many folks out there make statements like yours because they like to start firery discussions. That was, and is, not my intention. I am passionate about audio but in no way an expert like you. I do not mind spending a little extra cash to get better quality and reliability. Heck, that's why I purchased a Mastercraft! Anyhow, the Clarion amps. that I have are underpowered and I am not a big fan as you can tell. I am upgrading my audio set up completely minus the boat speakers. Like I said, I purchased a pre-owned Clarion CMD4 and I am having a local audio shop do the install for the whole set up. Mainly because I do not have time to tinker with it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. In response to your question... I have not had the pleasure of experiencing the McIntosh car audio equipment. I have seen and listened to their home audio products in the past and I was very impressed. Why do you ask? Do they manufacture Clarion car audio? Ha! - AZHAWK.

Also, I was not stating that lower levels equals higher volume. I was simply stating that a more efficient/powerful amp. would produce a cleaner signal at a higher volume in relation to a less powerful amp. that was being tweeked or pushed into producing a more distorted signal at the same volume (db) level.

prostar205
05-16-2006, 12:48 AM
AZHAWK -

To answer your question regarding my Clarion 1632's, they sound 100X times better being pushed by the KX850.4 amp. It is definately too much power, if I turned it up all the way, but I have the gains set fairly low. They really do sound great when compare to when I had the Clarion Amps installed.

Regarding throwing away your Clarion stuff, I will take it off your hands from free and pay for the shipping to get it out to Seattle. The reason: I have my stuff (XMD1, 2 Clarion Amps and the 10" sub) on ebay right now and it will all fetch $300+ dollars. I don't know about you, but I could always use an extra few hundred smackers. If you haven't noticed, gas for these boats is not cheap. On top of that, I have the 8.1L (L-18) big block in mine. Definately LOVES gas.

Good luck with everything. Upgrading the stereo was the second best thing I did to the boat over the winter. First best thing - installing the 2006 rudder. I now have an X30 that performs like my '95 Prostar 205.

Leroy
05-16-2006, 01:13 AM
You are pretty smart Axhawk! Within 4 posts and you know! JimN is our expert in any subject matter that has ever appeared on this site! He first helped me in 2002 when I was summerizing my boat. There isn't a better person on here for technical help and that is saying a lot with the regulars on here!!!!



JimN - Your credentials are impressive and in no way was my response an attack on you or your experience.

AZHAWK
05-16-2006, 01:37 AM
Regarding throwing away your Clarion stuff, I will take it off your hands from free and pay for the shipping to get it out to Seattle. The reason: I have my stuff (XMD1, 2 Clarion Amps and the 10" sub) on ebay right now and it will all fetch $300+ dollars.....

First best thing - installing the 2006 rudder. I now have an X30 that performs like my '95 Prostar 205.
prostar205 - that is some serious cash for that stuff. Have you had anyone bid on it yet? If I can sell it for that much maybe I should put it on ebay and get some money for that new rudder. :)

I know that is probably in another post somewhere but what is the scoop? I have had someone mention that I get the '06 rudder already but I thought that it was a trick for the newer '05 1/2 X30 hull and not the older hull like ours. - Thanks.

prostar205
05-16-2006, 02:00 AM
AZ -

This is no trick. The new '06 rudders for these bigger boat at truely amazing. It is like driver a TOTAL new and improved boat. For the low price of $190 plus shipping thru MYMC on this site, you can have yours. The installation takes about :30 minutes.

Here is a link to the MANY thread on this subject. It comes complete with pics.

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=8725

Here is another one.

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=8305

prostar205
05-16-2006, 02:03 AM
AZ -

Sorry, I did not answer your first question.

Yes, each item has between 4 and 5 bids on them. There are over 20 people watching each item and I'm up to $173 for everything with 1.5 days left. I am hope to get between $400 and $500 for everything when the auctions are done.

Do not throw this stuff away. It has value and someone will want it.

Remember, one man's junk is another man's treasure.

JimN
05-16-2006, 09:48 AM
AZHAWK- no problem and welcome to Team Talk. However, the Clarion amp being underpowered doesn't make it junk, any more than your boat's motor being junk because it won't get you up to 80 MPH. Same logic, right? It's futile to compare a low powered amp to a high powered one- they won't sound the same because the headroom will be different if you're comparing amp types , i.e. tightly regulated vs tightly regulated (Clarion and a lot of others) or looser vs looser (Rockford, MTX, JL, etc). Kinda like a VW bug drag racing with a 'Vette. Power is power.

OTOH, back in the late'70s and early '80s, Clarion was absolutely terrible and I used to sell off of them all the time but they saw the light and improved their designs and manufacturing. I have a Clarion head unit and front speakers in my truck and they're almost 5 years old- not one problem. My last head unit was Clarion, too and the only reason I replaced it is that my car drowned in the 'Great Flood of 1998'.

The main suggestion I have is to make sure they use adequate cable, terminals and distribution for the power supply + and ground- they're the most important things in a system like this. If they have Stinger twisted pair audio cables, they'll probably work better and reject more noise than Monster Cable and will cost a lot less. Also, much less bulky. Twisted pair is inherently better for noise rejection than any coaxial type of cable.

Clarion owns Mcintosh.

AZHAWK
05-16-2006, 11:27 AM
JimN - Once again, I have nothing against Clarion audio! I will state again that I am impressed by their CMD4 Headunit and the speakers that are in the boat. My beef is with the amps. Maybe it is because I remeber those amps back in the 80's. I use to sell and install as well....just not at your level. Clarion use to be one of the kings of overrating their amps. It is not a matter of their amps being underpowered it is that their power is highly overrated! (comparing apples to apples) I am not mad that my MC doesn't do 80mph because MC never claimed that it would. You can't tell people that a 4cyl. Nissan Truck will tow 18,000 lbs. because someone will eventually try it and they will be extremely disappointed when their truck breaks trying to do it!! Get my point? Anyhow, it was going to take a rockstar performance by these newer Clarion amps. to make me a believer. Didn't happen. Not only did they perform to my low expectations, they still have that distinctive "rampy" mid-range. Those amps are trying to do more than they should thus they are producing higher distortion rates much quicker. Maybe Clarion makes better amps than these... I would like to listen to them so I could become a believer.
- AZHAWK

JimN
05-16-2006, 11:48 AM
So if you were selling audio in the '80s. you probably remember the "other" rating methods, not just RMS.

150W, 8 ohms @1M WLS (When Lightning Strikes) or JBF (Just Before Fire).

It might have something to do with people buying equipment on specs alone or seeing a big number for power when it's measured at 1KHz and ignoring full bandwidth ratings. Bigger is better, right?

If I had a dollar for every person who came in and asked "How many amps does this put out?"


If you're familiar with "Used Cars" (filmed at Chandler Motors, BTW), "This is the most blatant case of false advertisement I've ever seen!"

zberger
05-16-2006, 12:57 PM
JimN and I could probably get all nostalgic..

Markey Dietrich is my hero.. I was a phone call away from buying his kick panels :o

I've been around car audio entirely too long.. No money for a stereo right now :( I miss having one TOO much.

Any remember when's for me Jim?

And there are 2 Clarion decks I'd kill to have.. 9375R and the one with the knob.. no detach face.. burr brown out the wazoo, the name escapes me.. but those 2 were crazy awesome in their day.