PDA

View Full Version : LQ9,Powerslot...Won't rev past 3krpm in drive?


#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 08:24 AM
Ok, here's the story. Took the boat out for the first time yesterday afternoon. Boat started up just fine, seems to idle just fine. upon putting it in gear, there was a little rattle I quickly put it back in neutral. Shut down the engine and check the tranny fluid right away and it was just right. (I changed the Tranny fluid, Engine oil and Impeller between the last outing last fall and yesterday) started it back up and tried it again. dropped it into gear and it seemed fine this time, I figured it took a second to lube everything again after sitting for all year and changing the oil too. So started accelerating and something didn't seem right at all. it was like it was stuck in a higher gear and had NO power. it finally gets up to speed, and it won't rev past 3k rpm and 30mph. I make a loop at the end of the lake and upon turning around it slows way down, I try giving it more gas and nothing happens. So I pull the throttle back to a neutral and rev it up in neutral... the Motor revs to the MOON! Super responsive and no issues what so ever not in gear. So back to dropping it into gear and same thing... hardly moves and won't go past 3krpm 30mph.

So what could this be? I made sure when I changed the tranny oil that I metered what I sucked out and only put that same amount back in... turned out to be about 2.5 qts. Is there a governor that electronically enables if there's something wrong with the tranny? I have only 188.6 hrs on the boat in total. If it's something big... I hope it would be still under warranty.

Seems crazy, I'm not sure what else to try or check next. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I'm also calling the dealer when they open this morning at 10am... 2.5hrs away...

MYMC
04-24-2006, 09:17 AM
Have you changed props? Did you change the trans filter?

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 09:25 AM
Didn't change props... The dealer told me not to change the Tranny Filter... so I just sucked out fluid, and replaced with new.

MYMC
04-24-2006, 09:34 AM
Is/was the PerfectPass cable tight?

Diesel
04-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Any smoke??

Sounds like it is in limp mode. Un-hook the battery for couple of hours or unplug the ECM to reset.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 09:56 AM
Is/was the PerfectPass cable tight?

I haven't done anything with the Perfect Pass. which cable do I need to check? the system was off. I double checked that a few times.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 09:58 AM
Any smoke??

Sounds like it is in limp mode. Un-hook the battery for couple of hours or unplug the ECM to reset.

No smoke at all. The weird thing was, in Neutral it would rev perfectly. Ramped right up to 4krpm or so and back. but once you dropped it into gear, that's when you could tell immediately that something was wrong.

what is this "limp" mode you speak of?

MYMC
04-24-2006, 10:12 AM
but once you dropped it into gear, that's when you could tell immediately that something was wrong.
How? Can you be more descriptive?

This sure sounds like a loose PerfectPass servo cable.

Prostar19
04-24-2006, 10:13 AM
I know this sounds funny but change the spark plugs. For some reason the spark plugs in the LQ9 rarely last much more than 100 hrs. My boat did the same thing but not as bad. I lost around 1000 rpm's my friends boat would not go over 40. Changed the plugs and running like new again.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 10:18 AM
How? Can you be more descriptive?

This sure sounds like a loose PerfectPass servo cable.

It just had no power when dropping it into gear... it was like trying to start in 3rd gear on a manual vehicle. nailed the throttle and it took forever to gain speed.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 10:20 AM
I know this sounds funny but change the spark plugs. For some reason the spark plugs in the LQ9 rarely last much more than 100 hrs. My boat did the same thing but not as bad. I lost around 1000 rpm's my friends boat would not go over 40. Changed the plugs and running like new again.

I was going to change plugs before this year, but was advised not to by the dealer as they plugs should last a lifetime... they said since the plugs are about 10$/plug. that it's not worth it. Obviously it is worth it if that's going to fix my problem.

Could this be bad gas? I had about 1/4 tank sit over the winter, although I did add sea foam last fall. then yesterday I added fuel injector cleanr and another 1/4tank of fresh fuel.

east tx skier
04-24-2006, 10:24 AM
Concerning what MYMC is saying, check the PP servo knob. It should (1) not be dangling by the thread, i.e., came off the post, and (2) be wound tight (clockwise). But if you can rev in neutral and control it, it doesn't sound to me like when the knob came loose or had slack on my boat.

As for the rattle, what kind of transmission fluid are you using?

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 10:33 AM
We went back and forth on this once I believe eastie... You were saying 15w40 and My manual and dealer told me to put in Dexron III/Mercon. So prior to our previous conversation. I had changed it with the Pennzoil Dexron III.

east tx skier
04-24-2006, 10:57 AM
Well, I'm no expert. But the current recommendation for 15W40 in the slot trannies was apparently related to owner complaints concerning a bit of rattle. Not that this sounds as if it has anything to do with your real issues here. If you decide to change over to the 15/40, change it a bunch of times. You definitely don't want a mixture.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 11:00 AM
alright, that might be a good measure, cuz the wife didn't like the rattle. I had noticed it a little bit before, but I didn't think it was that bad. it was worse yesterday than it's been in the past.

Dealership opens in 3 minutes... I'll see what they say when I call over there.

east tx skier
04-24-2006, 11:08 AM
Probably a good time to check to see if your prop nut is on tight. That was the source of my latest rattle. Scary.

JimN
04-24-2006, 11:14 AM
RPM reduction (don't limp it home) only lets the motor go to ~2000 RPM. It won't be pretty, either. Not nice and smooth like it normally is. Limp-home mode is from the car guys where there is a radiator holding coolant, which still applies (more or less) when there's a closed coolong system but unless there's a serious safety issue for the boat and occupants, shut it off. It shuts the injectors off for a reason- to save the motor. An overheat warning buzzer should have sounded if it was overheating.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 11:16 AM
RPM reduction (don't limp it home) only lets the motor go to ~2000 RPM. It won't be pretty, either. Not nice and smooth like it normally is. Limp-home mode is from the car guys where there is a radiator holding coolant, which still applies (more or less) when there's a closed coolong system but unless there's a serious safety issue for the boat and occupants, shut it off. It shuts the injectors off for a reason- to save the motor. An overheat warning buzzer should have sounded if it was overheating.

Wasn't over heating, stayed at the magical 160 the whole time.

Prostar19
04-24-2006, 11:17 AM
I spoke to Indmar about the issues with my LQ9 and my friends and they said the plugs will not last much over 100 hours in the LQ9. I changed them and back to normal. Not sur eif that is your issue but it may be worth a try. My boat ran fine but slow and would not hit the right RPM's

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 11:19 AM
Do you remember the part# where you got them. cost? I might try Napa instead of the dealer to help relieve the cost a little. But I'll definately be doing new plugs just in case that could contribute to the problem.

BrianM
04-24-2006, 11:20 AM
Is/was the PerfectPass cable tight?

I say check the Perfect Pass. If the servo is not tightening or is loose very strange things can happen. This sounds like it definitely could be the issue and very easy to check.

east tx skier
04-24-2006, 11:25 AM
I say check the Perfect Pass. If the servo is not tightening or is loose very strange things can happen. This sounds like it definitely could be the issue and very easy to check.

After mine was installed, I had the very weird throttle stuff happen. The little torx nut inside the servo knob wasn't tight and the knob had fallen off. The boat just started behaving freaky.

3event
04-24-2006, 11:35 AM
Same thing happened to me after I was kinda brutal with the throttle while PP was engaged. What happened, I figured out, was that battling PP caused slack in the "rope" that connects the throttle cable to the PP servo. When i put er in gear, she would only get up to 30mph. Nearly freaked me out, until I finally turned the knob on the PP servo to tighten the "rope" and all was well.

This happens occasionally during the season and I just give a partial turn to the thing and then we're good to go.

hopefully that's it for you, easy fix!

3event
04-24-2006, 11:37 AM
FORGOT TO MENTION...

What was happening is that with the lack of tightness on the PP end, I was simply not getting enough throttle cable travel when in gear. So when the throttle lever was physically at the end of its travel, the cable was only pulling the actual throttle 2/3 open.

ok i'm done now

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 11:51 AM
Ok, I'll check the PP stuff. Would be nice if it was that easy of a fix... however, wouldn't really explain why upon initial engagement of the tranny it seemed i was driving with a brake on or something, There was NO holeshot what so ever. I couldn't have pulled a kneeboarder up out of the water! Or maybe it could? I'll at least eliminate it as a possible cause with a quick inspection of the PP. Thanks for the suggestion.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 11:54 AM
Dealer says run it on the trailer and see if it still won't rev up in gear. taking the load off the motor. that way we can eliminate transmission. So I'm going home after work and hooking up the Fake-a-lake. (after of course I check the simpler stuff (PP etc.)) hopefully we'll have it narrowed down by this evening.

6ballsisall
04-24-2006, 11:57 AM
Dealer says run it on the trailer and see if it still won't rev up in gear. taking the load off the motor. that way we can eliminate transmission. So I'm going home after work and hooking up the Fake-a-lake. (after of course I check the simpler stuff (PP etc.)) hopefully we'll have it narrowed down by this evening.


Dont forget to lube the bushings on the driveshaft strut when doing this.

MYMC
04-24-2006, 12:33 PM
I'm still stumped as to why a dealer would tell you not to change the trans filter or the spark plugs??????????? These are some of the items at the core of an annual service for all MasterCraft boats!

Lastly, spark plugs will not last forever...they are a wear item. Errosion occurs on the electrodes as they spark, this leads to a greater "gap" between the tips. With a platinum or Iridium (LQ9 std) the surface area available for errosion is much smaller than with convetional plugs. All of this doesn't even address the issues of contamination from additives, bad fuel etc...

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 01:12 PM
Thanks Jrandol It's on my list of "to do" items.

Yes I realize that the Plugs are wear items. That was why i was planning on changing them and then was a little surprised when I was told it wasn't necessary. I'm Now going to change them regardless of other indications that it is not needed. Especially because of this issue. it will again elliminate another factor.

Tranny filter, I was also surprised at why I shouldn't change this. since in the manual it clearly states that it is advisable to change when doing a fluid change. I asked more than once if they were sure I didn't have to change the Tranny Filter, I got a resounding "YES" each time. Is this something I should still do? I believe they explained it off as something that is not affected by the contaminants of the road and since it's pretty much encapsulated in the boat there is really no reason for the elements affecting it.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 01:13 PM
"forever" was a relative term. since there are plugs out there that boast 100kmile life. and since you use your boat a fraction of that time period is where they got that term I believe. But still. Cheap insurance and you know they are in chip shape.

JimN
04-24-2006, 01:48 PM
Who is your dealer, Stengel or do you go to Minneapolis?

Plugs will wear faster under heavy load and RPM, too.

Running it on the trailer is OK but under load is the real test. If you change the plugs and rule out the Perfect Pass, do a fuel pressure test and take a fuel sample, especially if you see a drop in RPM around 2800 with it in neutral. I have seen a lot of boats that had no guts in the water but revved to WOT if the RPM increase was slow enough. Not trying to lump more on your plate but lack of pressure and volume can cause similar symptoms.

Homer
04-24-2006, 01:51 PM
I'd go along with the spark plug item. Check to see if the plugs that you have in the motor are NGK/AC Delco. Some of the LQ9 motors when out with these plugs and have caused the same type of trouble you described after sitting for the winter. Replace them with AC Delco 41-985. It is the correct plug for the motor.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 01:56 PM
Midwest Mastercraft in Crystal Mn. is who I've been going to.

bigmac
04-24-2006, 02:16 PM
I might have missed it, but did you check the Perfect Pass cable tension and adjustment?

In case you don't have it, it's detailed here in these PP installation instructions. (http://www.perfectpass.com/download/usersmanuals/InstallationInstructions.2006.pdf)

bigmac
04-24-2006, 02:21 PM
Tranny filter, I was also surprised at why I shouldn't change this. since in the manual it clearly states that it is advisable to change when doing a fluid change. I asked more than once if they were sure I didn't have to change the Tranny Filter, I got a resounding "YES" each time. Is this something I should still do? I believe they explained it off as something that is not affected by the contaminants of the road and since it's pretty much encapsulated in the boat there is really no reason for the elements affecting it.

I don't know about the filter in your DD transmission, but in the Hurth V-drives, skipping the annual change of that $75 tranny filter is pretty commonly recommended by the dealers, mine included.

#47of100TeamMC
04-24-2006, 02:34 PM
Upon reviewing the Troubleshooting section on the PP website... This sounds exactly like the issue I had... FYI PP (although it was off at the time) was set to 28 and I coulnd't go faster than 29.5-30.

Problem #3 STAT Line Open (RQST Line and VGOV Lines OK) – Engine operates normally with PerfectPass control ON, the engine RPM’s become limited at speed slightly above system set point, but there is no proper control and speed remains one or two mph above setpoint. The PerfectPass does not beep to acknowledge engagement and the underline characters never appear.

If I read that right, it operates Normally when the PP is ON, BUT when it is off is does the following. I never tried it with the PP on. so this could be the ticket...

MYMC
04-24-2006, 02:47 PM
I don't know about the filter in your DD transmission, but in the Hurth V-drives, skipping the annual change of that $75 tranny filter is pretty commonly recommended by the dealers, mine included.
The transmission in a boat has clutches and gears both of which wear...why change the fluid and leave a dirty filter? Cost of the filter is a fraction of what transmission repair work costs. Proper maintenance should not be viewed on a purely cost basis...what is your lost weekend worth? Judging by some posts on this very board I would say that people get more than $75 worth of upset when their boat leaves them stranded.

Further, dealers do not dictate warranty policy MasterCraft and Indmar do...I'm not sure I would jeopardize the lost coverage by not maintaining the product in question per the manufacturers recommendations.

bigmac
04-24-2006, 02:57 PM
The transmission in a boat has clutches and gears both of which wear...why change the fluid and leave a dirty filter? Cost of the filter is a fraction of what transmission repair work costs. Proper maintenance should not be viewed on a purely cost basis...what is your lost weekend worth? Judging by some posts on this very board I would say that people get more than $75 worth of upset when their boat leaves them stranded.

Further, dealers do not dictate warranty policy MasterCraft and Indmar do...I'm not sure I would jeopardize the lost coverage by not maintaining the product in question per the manufacturers recommendations.

I don't endorse it, just confirming that that recommendation about tranny filter changes does apply to at least a few other dealers.

I must say, however, an annual maintenance item that costs $75 does seem a little expensive.

#47of100TeamMC
04-25-2006, 08:12 AM
Ok, last night checked the PP and i snugged up the Servo knob maybe 1/8 turn not sure if it's that touchy or not... I also reset the system. But here's my question now... with the boat off, I put the shift knob in gear and put it through the motions. The last 2" of travel on the shift knob unwinds the servo knob about 1/4 turn. then it obviously doens't return upon backing off the throttle. so then back at neutral it's a tad bit loose. and I had to turn it back that 1/4 turn to snug it back up again. what is the cause of this? there's obviously going to be pressure on the knob through the whole range of the throttle and the cable doesn't move when the knob turns... I don't know if this was my problem from sunday on the water or not. I didn't have a chance to put the fake a lake on the boat last night since by the time I got home it was almost dark and 40degrees outside... i wasn't about to get wet then. maybe this evening I'll be able to try it.

east tx skier
04-25-2006, 09:50 AM
When you turn your key to the on position, the servo knob will tighten up. If the key is not on, it won't hold tension.

MYMC
04-25-2006, 11:13 AM
East is correct...do it with the key in the on position.

MYMC
04-25-2006, 11:24 AM
an annual maintenance item that costs $75 does seem a little expensive
At the risk of upsetting people on here I disagree. A $75 part really isn't out of line on a +$50,000 machine that see the work and stress that a boat does...I look at the added filteration on a PowerSlot or V-Drive as a benefit over 1:1 boats and companies that don't offer this type of benefit. Just my :twocents: (or $75 as the case may be).

6ballsisall
04-25-2006, 11:30 AM
At the risk of upsetting people on here I disagree. A $75 part really isn't out of line on a +$50,000 machine that see the work and stress that a boat does...: (or $75 as the case may be).


TRU DAT! :cool:

JimN
04-25-2006, 11:35 AM
Also, they don't make enough of that particular part to get the cost to the point of a regular oil filter.

Ric
04-25-2006, 12:15 PM
THREADJACK
anybody know how to change the transmission filter on a 1:1 197? my old 190 looked as if I'd have to detach the propshaft and raise the transmission to get to the filter (bottom) ?? no?

MYMC
04-25-2006, 12:37 PM
Ric,

No filter on a 1:1 boat.

Ric
04-25-2006, 03:44 PM
Ric,

No filter on a 1:1 boat.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

east tx skier
04-25-2006, 03:49 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

... as he walks back to his boat to reassemble the running gear.

Ric
04-25-2006, 03:51 PM
... as he walks back to his boat to reassemble the running gear.
and repairs the gelcoat from the tantrum with the wrench :rolleyes:

#47of100TeamMC
04-26-2006, 09:25 AM
I'd go along with the spark plug item. Check to see if the plugs that you have in the motor are NGK/AC Delco. Some of the LQ9 motors when out with these plugs and have caused the same type of trouble you described after sitting for the winter. Replace them with AC Delco 41-985. It is the correct plug for the motor.

Homer, where did you get the plug number you stated? I check the Indmar website and they say AC-Delco 41-974 gaped to .050"

Thanks,
Chris

vogelm1
04-26-2006, 11:22 AM
Ric,

No filter on a 1:1 boat.

However, there's a 'screen', correct? I was under the impression that is had to be rinsed/cleaned when doing a transmission fluid change. If that is the case, the screen is located on the very bottom of the tranny and held in place by two bolts, a plate, and rubber-coin-shaped gasket. Haven't done this yes since my boat only has 60 hours on it. Maybe it'll save me and others some work if you recommend I don't have to clean this part. Thanks-

MYMC
04-26-2006, 12:15 PM
there's a 'screen', correct? I was under the impression that is had to be rinsed/cleaned when doing a transmission fluid change
That is correct.

6ballsisall
04-26-2006, 12:19 PM
That is correct.

Mike, Mike, Mike! This is TMC, there is a more appropriate way to say that.

TRU DAT!! :wavey:

MYMC
04-26-2006, 12:49 PM
TRU DAT!!
Yo dog, I'm down wit dat.

BTW, how's the ski?

6ballsisall
04-26-2006, 12:56 PM
Yo dog, I'm down wit dat.

BTW, how's the ski?


Fazzizle my snizzle. Wouldnt ya believe it dawg, aint been out on it yet cuz da g-ride Prostar 190 has been down for da count. Might ride behind a Tige tonight though :rolleyes:

MYMC
04-26-2006, 01:28 PM
Might ride behind a Tige tonight though
Not touching that one.

6ballsisall
04-26-2006, 01:32 PM
Not touching that one.


i'll have to drink a few stiff drinks afterwards to get rid of the pain. It's an older 2002 FLSM. The wake is harder than a cement curb and rocks your world. But oh well, I am on the water. Tommorow night is in the FIXED 190 :banana:

Homer
04-27-2006, 03:48 PM
Homer, where did you get the plug number you stated? I check the Indmar website and they say AC-Delco 41-974 gaped to .050"

Thanks,
Chris


Chris,

I got this directly from MasterCraft this number repalces the -974.

#47of100TeamMC
04-28-2006, 08:04 AM
Thanks, You are correct. MYMC (Mike) confirmed that it was changed from what the book says. He also stated that there is some performance enhancement to be gained from the NGK TR-55's which is a copper plug (a lot cheaper too) you can run the gab all the way out to a max of .062 The Napa I went to didn't have the TR-55 in stock, they were all out. I tried Fleet Farm and they didn't carry it, so I got the Champion equivalent which was 1.29/plug. Much cheaper than the $6 Iridium's. So they are going in this weekend.

Thanks for the info.
Chris

#47of100TeamMC
05-04-2006, 08:26 AM
Took the MC out again last night for another trial run. And I am happy to report, IT RUNS FLAWLESSLY! I've got the boat I knew I had back. Amazing holeshot. and topp'd out at 51.5mph.

It seemed the problem was the servo cable as I tensioned it after the first time out and also reset the PP altogether... that fixed the Not reving past 3k issue. But I still had a sluggish and stuttering holeshot. So after the second time out, I replaced the plugs. Now she runs better than ever! Soo glad it was easy like that... my next step would have been bring it in and hooking it up to the computer I think. So I'm glad I don't have to worry anymore!

Water Temp last night was about 53degress. little chilly, but hopefully this weekend i'll be able to jump in and ski a few sets.

:toast:

MYMC
05-04-2006, 08:51 AM
Damn I love a happy ending! :D

rodltg2
05-04-2006, 07:26 PM
Took the MC out again last night for another trial run. And I am happy to report, IT RUNS FLAWLESSLY! I've got the boat I knew I had back. Amazing holeshot. and topp'd out at 51.5mph.

It seemed the problem was the servo cable as I tensioned it after the first time out and also reset the PP altogether... that fixed the Not reving past 3k issue. But I still had a sluggish and stuttering holeshot. So after the second time out, I replaced the plugs. Now she runs better than ever! Soo glad it was easy like that... my next step would have been bring it in and hooking it up to the computer I think. So I'm glad I don't have to worry anymore!

Water Temp last night was about 53degress. little chilly, but hopefully this weekend i'll be able to jump in and ski a few sets.

:toast:

glad its all fixed for you, the spark plug issue cam up as well on my boat.

so i guess you ccan put away the wetsuits!

MYMC
05-05-2006, 09:38 AM
You know I kind think I screwed up letting my LQ9 secret spark plug trick out of the bag...$120 spark plugs need love too :eek: