PDA

View Full Version : Please help w/'92 windshield


Storm861triple
04-22-2006, 07:20 PM
I'm trying to install a new RIGHT SIDE windshield segment on my '92. It seems that the QC at "Taylor Made" Glass is nonexistant though, as the windshield isn't even close to fitting right.

This truckin' thing cost me over $800.00 and supposedly is the last one in the country. So I pretty much NEED TO MAKE IT WORK, one way or another...and I CAN NOT tweak it to the point that it breaks.

In short, look at the pics and hopefully you can see what is up; the radius of the bend isn't small, or tight enough, and the tail section isn't twisted enough. It's a mess.

Pic 1: W/the base flat on the deck, the tail section sticks out.
Pic 2: If you force the "wing" or tail section IN, it bows the whole thing up in the middle. See the light under the base of it, just ahead of the driver?
Pic 3:What the joint between the middle section and the right wing looks like, when you're forcing the wing IN, at the rear.
Pic 4: Rear end of "wing" w/the wrong amount of "twist" in it. It's not even close. To force this in w/a screw will either crack the glass, or rip the screw our of the fiber glass eventually.
Pic 5: Difference in radius of old "wing" vs. new one. Note how much more straight the new one is? That's at least 1/2 the problem right there.

So. Anyone who's seen delt w/this junk on a '92 vintage hull design, what did you do? Force it? "Smooge" it (hack it basically)? Anyone who's been here and done this, please help me out. Thanks.

-Tom

Footin
04-22-2006, 07:24 PM
PM me you phone number, I kinda went throught his last year.

I will be glad to call you and try to help.

Storm861triple
04-24-2006, 11:49 AM
Well here's the verdict:

Basically the glass is DEFECTIVE. We tried and tried to get the right side to fit, and finally decided that it wasn't going to. Period.

Not that I wanted to , because it's a brand new, returnable item, but we disassembled the part; took the frame and gaskets off the glass. I had the bottom and front pieces left over from my old frame, so we layed that on the deck (by "deck", I mean the little plateau or shelf where the windshield sits) and it fit like a glove. We then layed the bottom section of the new frame on the deck and it didn't come close to fitting. So it seemed like the new aluminum frame was the culprit, and all we needed to do was slap my old frame on the new glass and be good to go. Well, just for yuk-yuks, we took the bare glass and placed it on the deck. Not even close. It turns out that the new aluminum frame (the one that came w/the new glass installed in it), was probably fine. But the GLASS is so focked up, that it's BENDING the aluminum frame to the point where the assembly won't fit!

Since there was a difference in the new frame and my old one, we re-assembled the thing using the bottom and front frame segments original to the boat, and the top section we had to use the piece from the new frame, since mine was destroyed when the glass was broken.

Now here's the amazing part; That piece of glass is so trucked up, that we had to seriously bend the original frame, just to get it on the glass. That action put a LOT of pressure on the glass, basically attempting to bend the glass into the shape the glass should have been in the first place. This made it a total ***** to assemble correctly. Once all together, we set it on the deck and guess what? It didn't fit. Of course. The glass had effectively BENT the combination original/new frame so it was close to what the new frame/glass assembly had been in the first place! Sweet. So the only options I could think of were;
1. Find a Glass smith who can heat and bend my brand new, $800.00+ piece of junk glass...if such a person exists
2. Force it, by installing screws and just starting to tighten them, hoping the glass doesn't shatter.
We opted for #2 and proceeded.

At this point, the thing is on the boat and it looks...Fair to poor, IMO. We were able to force the base of it, in front of the driver down against the deck alright, so there is no gap. As for the rear section of the "wing" where it tapers into the gunwhale (sp?), the top of that is still a good 1/2" away from the fiber glass -and you can clearly see the shaft of the screw that's pulling it in between the frame and the gunwhale (location seen in pic #4 above). At the same time, the bottom of that same area is crammed into the fiberglass so hard that it will surely wear a hole through eventually. That was as far as we dared go. That glass is SO friggin pre-loaded w/tension right now. I'm worried that hitting a stout wave will blow the whole glass to oblivion. Or a pebble thrown up from my trucks tire while towing. It wouldn't take much at the moment. Don't really know what else to do though. I'm basically trying to band-aid a defective part into working here. :(

Anyone got a used windshield for sale? I WILL buy one if there's one out there. :(

-Tom

east tx skier
04-24-2006, 12:02 PM
Thomas, for what it's worth, my dealer had a heck of a time with my windshield recently. They were looking at putting a mirror mount on the frame and pulled it out a bit to see how much clearance they had. Basically, that glass (the original glass from 93) wasn't going back in right with a few taps on the frame. I haven't read this thread in a while, but long story short, they had to take the entire passenger side of my glass off just to get that one panel to fit back in correctly. I watched (puckered) as they really went to town on that glass to get it back into the frame. Wood block on the glass, hammer on the wood, and me cringing with every whack! In the end, they got it back together and the windshield is better in the chop than ever before. Not something I would have ever wanted to do myself, but for the more technically capable (like you), I'm betting it's possible unless, as you say, the glass is just misshapen.

pilot02
04-24-2006, 12:04 PM
If it's lexan, talk to an A&P at your local airport. They may be able to help or at least point you in the right direction. My understanding is that it's pretty easy to correct the shape in an oven but am not sure of the temp involved. i think it's only 200 but I'd check with them and/or look for someone experienced in shaping lexan.

Storm861triple
04-24-2006, 12:55 PM
East TX,
Yeah, I've had my original windshield apart before;; to try to fix the way the factory installed the gasket so poorly. It was not fun or easy, but it was NOTHING compared to putting a frame on a "bent" piece of glass. :/
Our tools were Dead blow mallets, hands (4 of them), blocks of wood, and the critical element; Astro Glide! That's right. If it wasn't for the lube, We'd still be out there fighting w/it.

Pilot 02. It's glass, not lexan. It's a genuine MC part, bought "new" from an MC dealer last fall, and it's made my Taylormade, an MC OE supplier.

-Tom

Footin
04-24-2006, 01:00 PM
How about sending it back to Taylor made and having them "rebend" the glass?

east tx skier
04-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Well, twas worth a shot. Just looked at the picture. Yikes! So that's the last piece of that glass out there. I need to be careful with mine.

bigmac
04-24-2006, 01:09 PM
How about sending it back to Taylor made and having them "rebend" the glass?

ICBW, but I was under the impression it's tempered glass, and that once glass is tempered, it can't be re-heated, drilled, or cut.

Storm861triple
04-24-2006, 01:16 PM
That's correct; It is "Tempered Saftey glass". Or at least that's what it says on the glass. I'm skeptical though, because when the original broke, it was anything BUT "Safety". It shattered all over the place...and into very SHARP little pieces. There was no membrane between two sheets of glass.

So you can't manipulate tempered glass then?

-Tom

BrianM
04-24-2006, 01:31 PM
Safety glass does shatter into a kazillion little pieces and allthough sharp they can't do much more than superficial damage.. Non safety glass will break into large extremely sharp knife like pieces that could cut and penetrate the body :eek:

bigmac
04-24-2006, 01:34 PM
That's correct; It is "Tempered Saftey glass". Or at least that's what it says on the glass. I'm skeptical though, because when the original broke, it was anything BUT "Safety". It shattered all over the place...and into very SHARP little pieces. There was no membrane between two sheets of glass.

So you can't manipulate tempered glass then?

-Tom

Pretty sure not, but you should call a glass shop to be sure.

There are typically two types of "safety glass", tempered and laminated. Auto windshields are laminated safety glass, which is two layers of tempered glass with some kind of plastic membrane sandwiched in between so the pieces won't go flying with the slightest nick. Side windows on cars are just tempered, and they'll shatter into a million pieces, and fall all over the inside if broken - there's no membane laminated in there. I suspect that's the case with your boat - just tempered, not laminated. EMTs and rescue personnel carry a little spring-loaded glass punch (http://nicnac.net/en-us/dept_78.html) for popping auto side windows. One touch and the whole window just pops out in a million pieces.

Theoretically, the pieces that tempered glass breaks into are supposed to be big chunks (~.25 inch) with less liklihood of being able to cut someone.

Storm861triple
04-24-2006, 01:38 PM
Gotcha. Thanks. That's good info. I always thought "safety glass" was laminated, but I understand what you're saying now. In that case, it is definitely "Tempered Safety Glass" as it says on the glass itself.

-Tom

Storm861triple
04-24-2006, 01:41 PM
Just checked with two glass places and they said "No way", on heating and bending tempered glass. It was a good thought though.

-Tom

Tom023
04-26-2006, 05:39 PM
I was curious as to what Taylor Made would say about getting that glass so I emailed them. This is their reply...not too promising but maybe worth a shot.

"Hi i just want to let you know that you would have to contact our indiana plant for that glass there number is 260-347-1368 and you can talk to either karen/ nancy at ext 234 or 235"

Storm861triple
04-26-2006, 08:02 PM
Huh. That's interesting. I called them last fall right after I had teh "incident" that broke the glass, and tehy said they got rid of the "tooling" for that glass long ago. Maybe I talked to the wrong person. It's too late tonight, but I'll give them a ring in the AM.

For now, the glass that's on my boat "looks" O.K. No one else but me will notice that it's screwed up. As long as it doesn't shatter from stress and vibration, it should be O.K.

-Tom

AirJunky
04-26-2006, 09:39 PM
You should probably ask TM that question when you talk to them.
A few yrs ago I had an old SeaRay. Driving thru a grocery store parking lot, over a speed bump at the normal 1/2 or 1 mph, the windshield exploded for no apparant reason. I thought someone had thrown something at it, but we never found a rock or ball or anything.
When we bought the new glass, the boat dealer told me that it wasn't uncommon to have TM send them glass that was barely the right shape, and the manufacturer or dealer would install it to the best of their ability, sometimes under a lot of tension. And if that was the case, it wasn't uncommon to have the glass explode for no apparant reason one day.
I'd be surprised to hear TM admit that, but it would definitely be something to ask them considering your current install. I sure wouldn't want to be in the boat when it exploded!!

Storm861triple
04-27-2006, 12:39 AM
AJ,

Great post and great idea. I WILL ask them about this when I talk to them tomorrow. Thanks!

P.S. I agree, being in the boat when the glass breaks, sucks. The first time, I was expecting it, 'cause I was hitting something (a tree). If it happens now (from stress) it'll be shocking/scary.

-Tom

Storm861triple
04-28-2006, 01:13 PM
Talked to Talyor made twice now. Once yesterday, waited all day for a call back which I never got. Again just now. Waiting again.

So far I have zero info, wasted an hour just arguing about whether or not it was the corect p/n for the application (it is). Not too impressed here. I'll update when I have some info...

-Tom

Storm861triple
04-28-2006, 04:38 PM
Well Nancy did call back.

Verdict: They don't have the glass, tooling, patterns, prints, plans, zip, nada, nothing, and can't get any of it. She also thingks that based on what I told her, that it's going to break. She's no expert, and I was unable to get an engineer on the phone to "talk shop" with, so that kind of sucked. The QC manager is supposed to call me Monday, but I don't know what he can or will do...

I'm screwed on this one.

-Tom

Tom023
04-28-2006, 05:03 PM
Well, I figured it was a long shot but at least you have the peace of mind knowing that you exhausted all possibilities.

Storm861triple
04-28-2006, 07:01 PM
Yeah, well out of "desperation", I called Jim@BAWS today after talking to Taylor. I was mainlly looking to get a "feel" from him on the possibility of returing the glass (BEFORE it breaks). Anyway, I never got that far. I jsut told him my story and progress so far, and he was a good listener. He said that he wasn't sure how he could help, but he did point out that when he used to install galss on '88 vintage hulls, they used to have to bend the glass several inches to "make it fit". In a way that was actually good news. If this is a semi common practice, then maybe it actually will hold up...

He told me to take it out this weekend and deliberately hit some good waves. We'll see.

-Tom

Footin
04-28-2006, 09:12 PM
Wear safety glasses for the first few waves.

Storm861triple
04-29-2006, 01:19 AM
For sure. And long sleeves.

-Tom

Storm861triple
04-29-2006, 11:45 PM
Went out for the first time of the year today and the boat ran flawlessly...as usual. :) That, I love.

Crossed my wake a bunch of times, hit some rollers straight on and diagonally, then found an X-45 (?) out there doing a fine job of making a retarded sized wake. Hit that as fast as my conscience would allow, and feel like I'm not permenantly damaging my boat.

No glass breakage. That was a bit of a relief! The first wake I hit/crossed... I'll tell you what; I was flinching for sure!

Hopefully this thing will stay together. Thanks for all the input on this thread. Given what I paid for this thing and what that money means to ME, this has been a seriously stressfull issue. So far so good...

-Tom

east tx skier
04-30-2006, 12:28 AM
Glad to hear you made it without any shards. :)