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View Full Version : Pulling RW impeller on a V-drive - &@%*#


bigmac
04-09-2006, 07:50 PM
Lemme tell ya, it ain't easy to change an impeller on a late-model 230VRS..

The silencer location relative to the raw water pump makes this a tough job. Access from the driver's storage compartment isn't a problem - after removing the rear-most carpeted panel (one screw), it's easy to get a 5/16 wrench on the brass cover plate bolts. Getting the impeller out is hard, though. The eccentric lobe of the pump chamber is on the driver's side (same as the hose inlet/outlet), and the way that folds the vanes of the impeller over means you can't get a puller in horizontally. Unfortunately, there's not enough clearance from the silencer to get it in vertically (the only way the puller arms will fit) and even if there were, there's not enough clearance to turn the puller T-handle. Bottom line - forget the impeller puller on a later-model MCX V-drive IMHO. I guess one could just remove the silencer....If only MasterCraft had been able to mount the silencer about 1 inch higher, maintenance in the bilge would be a lot easier.

I got the impeller out by using a needle-nose vise grip applied to the bottom of the shaft opening and the rubber, then reaching over the silencer and pulling straight back. It came out fairly easily that way. The impeller isn't torn, but it sure is deformed. I decided to leave it out, see if it will recover its shape. I'm going to put a new one in, but I think I'll wait til I'm closer to getting the boat in the water. I need to be in the bilge anyway before launching in order to change the tiller arm and rudder and reconnect the hoses and drain plugs.

I do see what East Texas Skier means about "bump-starting" after winterizing. Even though both raw-water hoses were off the pump, I was surprised at how much antifreeze came out of the pump when I removed the cover.

Tom023
04-09-2006, 08:53 PM
They must have changed the silencer design in the later X30s Bigmac, or possibly the MCX is different from the LTR, because mine has plenty of clearance for the puller. It's a PITA without it, that's why I went the puller route. I'll take a picture of my setup and post just for comparisons sake.

bigmac
04-09-2006, 11:51 PM
They must have changed the silencer design in the later X30s Bigmac, or possibly the MCX is different from the LTR, because mine has plenty of clearance for the puller. It's a PITA without it, that's why I went the puller route. I'll take a picture of my setup and post just for comparisons sake.

On my boat, the top-most bolt on the raw water pump cover plate is so close to the silencer that I can't even get a socket on it - gotta use an open-end wrench. Other three cover bolts - no problem with a 5/16 socket. Because the silencer is so close, I can't orient the puller vertically, which is the only way it will work.

planoboy
04-09-2006, 11:56 PM
I use the impeller puller w/o the T handle on my 225VRS.
At least you can get the puller in between, and around the back side of, the impeller blades, then twist N pull by hand. Still worth the money to get something back there that works, imho.

bigmac
04-10-2006, 12:19 AM
I use the impeller puller w/o the T handle on my 225VRS.
At least you can get the puller in between, and around the back side of, the impeller blades, then twist N pull by hand. Still worth the money to get something back there that works, imho.

No, that's what I'm saying...you can't get the puller on there on the '04 and '05 230VRS, even with the T-handle off. Silencer is in the wrong place.

prostar205
04-10-2006, 01:31 AM
This is great info. I need to do this on my X30 with the L-18. You guys with the LTRs and MCXs have "alot" of room in the engine bay compared to how much I have with the 8.1L. Talk about cramped. I'll let you know how it goes.

X-45
04-10-2006, 07:54 AM
Lemme tell ya, it ain't easy to change an impeller on a late-model 230VRS..


I've been looking at my pump all winter thinking I would have to take the silencer off to change the impeller. Thinks for the info bigmac. I keep thinking about the old Mazda's where you had to pull the engine to change the rear sparkplugs. :eek3:

bigmac
04-10-2006, 08:55 AM
I've been looking at my pump all winter thinking I would have to take the silencer off to change the impeller. Thinks for the info bigmac. I keep thinking about the old Mazda's where you had to pull the engine to change the rear sparkplugs. :eek3:

Taking the silencer off would make it a very easy job. I've been looking at my boat's bilge all winter too, because I have to change out the rudder and tiller. I finally decided I can get in there and access the bolts that hold it in if I crank the wheel hard over to the left. We'll see.

If you have the same silencer clearance issue relative to the RW pump that I have, the angle that a needle-nose Vise-Grip makes between handle and jaws is just enough to clamp it firmly on that lower edge of the impeller hub so that the handle of the Vise-Grip clears the silencer. The pump shaft, fortunately, doesn't run the whole length of the impeller. Once it's clamped on there fully, I could reach over the silencer from behind and pull straight back.

Overall, engine room access on my boat is pretty good compared to most I/O's but there are little quirks that keep reminding me that boat-designers have to make compromises that leave service techs and home mechanics in an awkward position. Literally.

kalanic
04-10-2006, 11:25 AM
Lookin to attack mine on my 2004 X-10 w/MCX this weekend. Sounds like its going to be fun!

Tom023
04-10-2006, 11:31 AM
I stopped by my boat this morning and took a couple of pictures but will have to post them this evening. My silencer must be different on the LTR because the top of the water pump is lower than the bottom of the silencer and there is about 5" of clearance between the two. I have a straight shot into the pump with the puller and not prolem using a socket. Sounds like the MCX is a different animal.

vegashomeexpert
04-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Reading this makes me feel a little better about forking over the dough to have the dealer winterize for me. But not enough better for me not to do it myself next time. Thanks BigMac! And don't forget to let me know how that flying tube works!

Tom023
04-10-2006, 08:21 PM
Here's a pic of the space I have in the LTR. If any of you guys with an MCX can post a similar pic I'd like to see the difference. The pump in this picture is completely below the horizontal tube of the silencer and there is about 4" between the two.

bigmac
04-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Here's a pic of the space I have in the LTR. If any of you guys with an MCX can post a similar pic I'd like to see the difference. The pump in this picture is completely below the horizontal tube of the silencer and there is about 4" between the two.

Ahhh...that would be great. I'll try to get a picture, but I honestly don't think there's even enough room to get a camera in there. Shooting from above, I can't even see the RW pump because the silencer is so close.

Workin' 4 Toys
04-11-2006, 12:37 AM
Ahhh...that would be great. I'll try to get a picture, but I honestly don't think there's even enough room to get a camera in there.
Time to get a smaller camera....8p ;)

Leroy
04-11-2006, 12:48 AM
Please warn me before you post something like that again.....I almost punched my monitor!



Here's a pic of the space I have in the LTR. If any of you guys with an MCX can post a similar pic I'd like to see the difference. The pump in this picture is completely below the horizontal tube of the silencer and there is about 4" between the two.

Tom023
04-11-2006, 09:23 AM
Please warn me before you post something like that again.....I almost punched my monitor!

Huh? Not following you Leroy.

Leroy
04-14-2006, 08:55 AM
I've spent so many painful hours laid over the engine pulling out the impeller and your picture is exactly that view!



Huh? Not following you Leroy.

bigmac
04-14-2006, 09:01 AM
I've spent so many painful hours laid over the engine pulling out the impeller and your picture is exactly that view!

Can't you get to the RW pump from one of the side compartments? I had to remove the rear-most carpeted panel, but that was only held in with one screw and came out easily.

Leroy
04-14-2006, 09:10 AM
My panels on mine are actually hinged, but you cannot get a good pull on the impeller from either side. Only from the top can you get two pliers on it and pull with any strength.

Can't you get to the RW pump from one of the side compartments? I had to remove the rear-most carpeted panel, but that was only held in with one screw and came out easily.

Tom023
04-14-2006, 12:56 PM
Now I understand Leroy. Because you and I have more space than Bigmac, try a puller next time. After struggling with vice grips and such the first time, I bought the puller. From start to finish it's 15 minutes max!

bigmac
04-14-2006, 01:17 PM
My panels on mine are actually hinged, but you cannot get a good pull on the impeller from either side. Only from the top can you get two pliers on it and pull with any strength.

In my rear compartments I have three panels. The front and rear panels are screwed into the frame, the middle one is removeable with clips and allows access to the tranny cooler etc. If I unscrew the rear one, I have access to the RW pump and I can get the vise grips on the impeller, but like you I have no leverage. That's why I was hoping the impeller puller would work out, but Jabsco and I were outsmarted in that regard by MasterCraft's boat designers.

Fortunately, I can reach over the silencer and get hold of the vise grips and pull straight back blindly.

I have to say that I can envision at least a few tool designs that would easily allow pulling that impeller. With a little welding, I'm pretty confident I can put a thumb screw on the top jaw of a needle-nosed vise grip that would take care of the problem. No third party is going to invest in such a design for so few boats, but personally, I think MasterCraft should have and provided it with the boat, or at least sold it as an option through the dealer or pro shop along with all of the other specialized tools for the home mechanic or as part of their emergency on-water rescue kit :rolleyes: . Of course, it might have made more sense to just shorten the upper exhause hose and lengthen the lower one by about an inch so the silencer didn't get in the way at all.

bigmac
04-15-2006, 01:32 AM
Here's a shot from the driver's side across the rear toward the left. As you can see, the silencer placement is a little awkward...

http://mccollister.info/rwpump.jpg

Tom023
04-15-2006, 10:41 AM
That's horrible! For such an important maintenance item, it should have been better thought out. It does look like the silencer is in the same place as mine relative to the rudder, so it must be something with the engine position or overall length of the components bolted on, because the blocks are the same. I feel your pain Bigmac!

bigmac
04-15-2006, 11:24 AM
That's horrible! For such an important maintenance item, it should have been better thought out. It does look like the silencer is in the same place as mine relative to the rudder, so it must be something with the engine position or overall length of the components bolted on, because the blocks are the same. I feel your pain Bigmac!

I didn't have much trouble getting the impeller in, even though the angle was awkward, and I had to apply a lot pressure entirely from the side. I strained my left shoulder doing so - too much stain on the rotator cuff at an awkward angle.

The impeller I used was a Johnson impeller I bought from SkiDIM. It came with a nice little tube of silicone oil stapled to the blister pack - labeled "Johnson Impeller Lube". That stuff is great, and really helped getting the thing in. I also have a spare impeller from MasterCraft - same impeller, but they didn't include the lube like SkiDIM did. I'm going to get some of that stuff. I'm sure it's available, probably at any place that deals with high-pressure air fittings. It's used as an O-ring lubricant on SCUBA tanks, for example.

As near as I can tell, the only thing that supports and attaches the silencer is the big rubber hoses that connect it to the exhaust manifolds on one side and the through-hull ports on the other. It seems to me that there would be no reason to have the silencer sitting so close to the pump - it could easily sit a couple of inches higher, in which case there'd be no problem using a puller. Bad design, IMHO.

Tom023
04-15-2006, 11:29 AM
Bigmac, can it move any further back? Mine is almost up against the rear of the boat, but not quite. I can't recall exactly but I think I may have an inch or two between the silencer and the inside of the transom. Looking at the bottom 90 degree hose in your picture, it seems longer horizontally than the one in my boat.

Maybe this pic gives a better perspective.

bigmac
04-15-2006, 11:37 AM
Bigmac, can it move any further back? Mine is almost up against the rear of the boat, but not quite. I can't recall exactly but I think I may have an inch or two between the silencer and the inside of the transom. Looking at the bottom 90 degree hose in your picture, it seems longer horizontally than the one in my boat.

When I was asking about changing the rudder, my dealer implied that removing the silencer to do it wasn't a particularly big deal, although did add some time to the process, obviously. As it turns out, there was sufficient room to change the rudder without worrying about the silencer. I suppose it would be feasible to change the hose lengths and move the silencer up and/or back, but it looks to me like it would be painful, probably more painful than just gutting it out as is for changing the impeller every couple of years.

bigmac
04-15-2006, 11:39 AM
Maybe this pic gives a better perspective. Looks to me like, in addition to the silencer being farther back, it's also smaller in diameter than mine. Now, I like a quiet boat, but I'll trade ya my silencer for yours.... ;)

kalanic
04-17-2006, 10:41 AM
Heres my pump location on my 2004 X-10 with MCX. Not alot of room either.

prostar205
04-20-2006, 02:29 AM
I had the boat at the house all day today and took some pictures of the impeller. Compared to you guys with the MCX or LTR, my L18 has tons of room to change the impeller. I was really fearing the worst, especially with such a large engine in the same boat as some of you guys. I guess I got lucky on this one.

Here are the pictures.

chico
04-24-2006, 10:40 PM
Wouldn"t it be easier to just remove the pump&change it on the bench?