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PeteS
09-27-2004, 02:26 PM
First allow me to thank everyone and their posts providing assistance to a first-time barefooter!

With that being said, after trial and error on Friday and Saturday of last week, I successfully barefooted two runs on Sunday -- both lasting about 3 minutes. What a rush!

I got up using the methods described here utilizing a kneeboard. The toughest part was keeping the board stable while manuvering from my knees to my butt, and then keeping the thing from porpousing while going from 18 to 36. We finally figured that it was like taking off a Band-Aid, the faster the accelation, the calmer the board stayed -- I thought I was scooted as far forward as possible. Thanks again guys, it had to be one of the coolest feelings behind a boat ever.

ski_king
09-27-2004, 02:28 PM
Congrats Pete!
And you got a 3 minute run to boot! Very Good.

PeteS
09-27-2004, 02:41 PM
Thanks a lot! The run was more of a holding-on-for-dear-life :eek: , the first time. The second one I took a few breaths maybe. :D

Footin
09-27-2004, 02:50 PM
Time for some tumble turns! Great job getting up!

Rockman
09-27-2004, 02:54 PM
Pete,

Congrats on footing this past weekend! :banana: Hope to see some pics from ya soon.

You know what they say about barefooters....they have the cleanest feet! :headbang:

PeteS
09-27-2004, 03:22 PM
I can do unintentionaly tumble-turns, does that count? :) My brother was driving (excellently I might add), and we didn't have a spotter.

I know, I know, not too smart and highly illegal, but pictures weren't going to be possible on the run. Let's hope we can get out a few more times up here in Michigan!

Rockman
09-27-2004, 03:27 PM
Pete,

It's only illegal if you get caught. :D Everyone has fractured the law once or twice. :eek:

Headin' up to Wisconsin this weekend and the temps say only a high of 53 for Saturday. BRRRRR!

Guess the drysuit has to come out. :mad:

MarkP
09-27-2004, 07:26 PM
Pete Congrats!! Way to go!!:banana:

Leroy
09-27-2004, 07:43 PM
Way to go Pete! I barefooted in college, really it was a credit PE, off a knee board...24 years ago :eek: Really is great fun....until you hit!

Andrť
09-27-2004, 08:18 PM
Congrats Pete!I have the greatest respect for anyone that can stand on water without skis!
Just too violent for me...

Chicken!Chicken!

Jerseydave
09-27-2004, 09:45 PM
Pete, that's the way I learned too. The only thing better is off the boom. (we didn't have a boom at the time).

If you want to progress more and quicker, find someone with a boom and tie your handle to it. You'll be doing tumbleturns in no time.
One foots directly off the boom are great fun, too. The water's so smooth there. :D

jimmer2880
09-28-2004, 07:43 AM
congrats! There's lots of fun to be had when you're "walking on water"

What a rush! :headbang:

Lance
09-28-2004, 09:09 AM
Nice. Nothing to it once you have done it a few times right ;)

tex
09-28-2004, 09:30 AM
Way to go Pete! The crackpipe is in your mouth!-tex-

Jorski
09-28-2004, 11:19 AM
Congratulations...barefoooting is indeed a terrific rush. One thing I noticed in your post: you said that you had difficulty maneuvering on the knee board from your knees to your butt...I have always (also when I was learning many years ago) taught people to start sitting on the knee board with their legs dangling over the side for balance, then they bring their feet up onto the board once they are being pulled in idle. When they get their feet up on the board the driver gently accelerates.

But what the heck, sounds like it is time to try a deep water start...it actually is much easier than it looks.

Good job !

Footin
09-28-2004, 11:24 AM
Barefooting is a terriffic rush, not many people can walk on water and don't forget the girls dig it!

sizzler
09-28-2004, 12:53 PM
bravo ol' chap..thats the spirit..stiff upper lip and all that......seriously tho' WELCOME TO THE CLUB

MarkP
09-28-2004, 01:02 PM
I tried to step off of a ski Sunday. (dint work) It will work next time. Also tried the deepwater start a few times this season but that was at 75í,:o , DINT work. Iíll get it. I donít really have a chance to work on it a lot, just on or two tries every couple of weeks

tex
09-28-2004, 01:45 PM
If you don't have a boom. You can use the kneeboard longline. i learned that way behind a bass boat w/65 hp johnson. It helps to turn the kneeboard around backwards.-tex

mgurley
09-28-2004, 02:30 PM
I weigh about 265lbs what are my chances of being able to barefoot? Most people I have seen doing it are pretty small. I am somewhat athletic I did manage to play college football for 4 years.

I do know that the speed required is directly proportional to the weight of the footer but I just have never seen anyone my size do it. What are my chances? :headbang:

Footin
09-28-2004, 02:36 PM
I'd say the chances are pretty good. I go about 220 and compete in tournaments on occasion. At 265 your boat speed should be about 45 to 47 for long line; however you should probably learn on the boom were you can drop the speed to 40 to 42 (this won't hurt as bad) hehehe.

mgurley
09-28-2004, 02:39 PM
My stepfather-in-law competes in tournaments as well. He seems to think that I can do it. I guess I will give it a try.

SkySkiSpokane
09-28-2004, 02:46 PM
I come in at 250 and have done it on a boom. i have heard it said that your optimal foot'n speed is your weight divided by ten and then add twenty. I don't think that I broke 40 and I was told it looked slow for me. Sure didn't feel that way!! :eek: Anyway after you learn to walk on water, grab a foil and fly over it!!! :love:

tex
09-28-2004, 02:49 PM
mcgurley-i have a friend that goes around 235. he back barefoots and does one ski gainers of the ramp! good form is what its about!-Tex

mgurley
09-28-2004, 02:52 PM
"Form" exactly what my in law says. Thanks guys looking foward to trying. :dance:

PeteS
09-28-2004, 11:11 PM
You guys are too cool, thanks a million! Big props to Sizzler and Lance for the detailed kneeboard start instructions :worthy: .

Interesting comment from Tex, you say turn the kneeboard around? Never thought of that, but sounds intriguing! Does it help with the porposing or bouncing of the kneeboard? Now I'm psyched to give that a shot, or better yet, maybe it's time for the dreaded deep-water starts :eek: !

I've been reading up on the three point position, but can't seem to follow. That's butt, and two feet close to your butt in a glide at about 25 MPH?

tex
09-29-2004, 09:51 AM
petes-turning it around makes it easier to get you legs into barefoot position. it also helps with the bouncing. if you are on the boom, scoot up on the board and get right next to the boat. have you observer lean out and help hold the tip up while the boat comes up to around 20mph. at that point the kneeboard will plane and you can work your way to the end of the boom. from there-don't move and the biggest piece of advice-wait for speed.-tex

Jorski
09-29-2004, 10:38 AM
PeteS,

The key thing to remember when doing a deep water start is to keep your hips up to the handle and stay completely straight (stiff as a board) until you are ready to sit up...then go into your three point position. From there it is exactly the same as standing up from a wakeboard.

fmoser
10-01-2004, 01:16 AM
It's been a long time since I even considered barefootin' but...

You mentioned a 75' line; the first time I ever did a deep-water start was on a 100' Kevlar rope (keeps you out of the boat turbulence). A regular ski rope stretches and makes things very difficult. Do they sell barefoot ropes anymore? If so get one.

Find someone with a boom! Practice on the boom, then with a handle on the boom and then go for the deep-water start. If nothing else your friends will enjoy the skiing on your butt. They will also love the crashes as you learn to transition from sitting to stands.

Wakeboarding = Nothing but giggles
Slalom Coarse = Power, strength and speed baby
Barefootin' = Off the chart INTENSE!!!

Have fun and keeps your toes up!

jimmer2880
10-04-2004, 07:02 AM
When I "long line" I wear a cup (helmet for the "other" head). I then place the handle at the top of the "helmet" & keep my arms & elbows jammed into my sides. Arch head, chin & back as sharp as possible & HOLD ON! :steering:

Keeping the handle where I do ensures that I'm not going to let it move around on me :eek3:

Just another way to think about it - that's all.

martho
10-04-2004, 06:56 PM
"You mentioned a 75' line; the first time I ever did a deep-water start was on a 100' Kevlar rope (keeps you out of the boat turbulence). A regular ski rope stretches and makes things very difficult. Do they sell barefoot ropes anymore? If so get one. "

I would disagree with using a longer rope. I did learn with a long rope and bought one of the BI Tak lines. I was under the assumption that the longer the better to keep me out of the prop wash.

However, the rope should be 75'. Using a non stretch rope is key and even the 100' ropes are no stretch. However, there is a ton of play in that long line at 100'. If you move the rope to 75' there is alot less wiggle in the rope and it doesnt bounce as much. As for the boat turbulence.....You should not be in the prop wash or on the table. You should be in the curl on either side of the wake.

Rockman
10-04-2004, 07:05 PM
No turbulence behind our boat at either 75 or 100 feet :D

jimmer2880
10-05-2004, 06:37 AM
Most boats have turbulance at 75'. Apparently some do not, but I haven't footed behind one yet that the water wasn't better at 100 than it was at 75 - just my opinion, you know how those go ;)

While I agree that most of the time you should be either in the curl next to the wake, or outside in the flat stuff - I do like to do wake crossings occasionally. It isnt' a good feeling when you get behind the boat & your feet start to sink from all the turbulence.

DanC
10-05-2004, 09:29 PM
I believe the most common non-stretch barefoot ropes come in 100' with 10' take off loops down to 70'. While the weight of the longer rope is undesirable, my crew seems to prefer our wake at 80'.

Regular ropes are fine for two foot straight ahead barefootin' with a step off or kneeboard start, but if you go to deepwater starts and surface moves, you WILL appreciate how a quality non-stretch barefoot rope gets rid of the "bungie cord" effect.

MasterCrafting
10-06-2004, 12:35 AM
Congrats and keep doing it!

PeteS
10-06-2004, 09:56 AM
More great information, guys. Thanks, and keep it coming! I have a non-stretch 80 foot wakeboard line that I was using, with a wide wakeboard handle. Do you think that setup is simliar to a barefoot line and handle set-up?

And one more thing. We found that when accelerating from 18 to 36 that once you are situated and tell the driver to "hit it", quicker was much better than slower. Seemed that if you went slowly up, the porposing was worse, then if you just punched it and got up to speed quickly.

Would like to master the deep-water start, but sounds like for that I'll definetely need a barefoot suit of at least shorts. Can't wait to try though! Can someone describe in detail the 3-point position? Thanks again for the props.

Jorski
10-06-2004, 09:59 AM
**Can someone describe in detail the 3-point position?**


Sitting on your butt. Arms straight. Knees bent with feet close to your butt. Feet flat on the water. The water should be breaking just behind the balls of your feet.

DanC
10-06-2004, 12:31 PM
Here is a link that you might find usefull. The article is a little dated but still pretty good information

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/barefooter/

Also here is a picture, guy on the right is in a three point position.

CoFooter
10-06-2004, 08:32 PM
PeteS,

I struggled with the deepwater start fro a year before I got it, but once you learn, it's really easy. Like the previous poster said, stiff body, arches of feet over rope, handle just below your waist, head back as far as you can bend it, 70' tak line. A extended pylon helps a lot and a barefoor suit and shorts are mandatory. Have the driver start a medium acceleration to about 30/35. You'll begin planing if you keep your head arched back in about 3 seconds. If you submarine, you're not stiff or arched enough. Once you begin planing, you have two options. Stay in the wake table, or cheek out to the curl. To cheek out, lean your body at an angle and ride on your butt cheek just like you would lean to turn on a kneeboard and keep those feet on the line the whole time. I takes some getting used to. Either way, the first problem you will encounter is the stern rollers of the boat. You'll hit two or three of them hard. Just grit your teeth and don't panic. This is where a lot of people bail out. Once the boats on plane the ride is pretty smooth. When you get up to speed, slowly take your feet off the rope and bend your knees back to your chest while still riding on the small of your back. A lot of people when they are learning don't bend their knees back to their chest and it results in a wipe-out out the front. So knees bent back, handle still on the waist, and begin to sit up, while at the same time sloooowly planting your feet, raising the handle and standing up. Once your up once, you'll wonder why this was so hard to learn. To quote Lane Bowers - we never said it was easy, we just said it was cool. Go to "thefootersedge.com" for a lot of great tips and instructions.

martho
10-07-2004, 12:33 AM
Many people have a problem with the quick acceleration and trying to cheek out. Usually, the faster acceleration causes newer footers to get stuck in the prop wash and not be able to cheek out. I still have this problem from time to time if I get a quick pull.

As mentioned, the stern rollers will make you bounce a couple times coming out of the hole. Just hang on and you will get thru it.

Also, the three point is the most important position in footin. You will need that for tumble turns, all starts and often when you stop. There are many schools of though on the proper 3 point position. You just need to find a position where you are comfortable riding on your butt. You should be able to 3 point ride for as long as you want and I encourage lots of 3 point riding. I had an instructor who wanted me to 3 point the whole length of the lake which was a mile long. I must have taken 30 runs that day, and was never allowed to put my feet in the water. I am very thankful for this instruction as it made my 3pt much easier. YMMV

tex
10-07-2004, 10:29 AM
if ya'll are having trouble with the stern roller, try a new driver!

CoFooter
10-07-2004, 12:36 PM
Tex, I don't understand your comment. Stern rollers are always going to be there when accelerating until the boat gets on plane. Not much a driver can do about it.

Lance
10-07-2004, 01:19 PM
From my perspective all barefooting is better outside the wake and always try to get there while getting up. On a kneeboard start this is relatively easy. On a deepwater start it is a little harder to get outside the wake using the cheek out method described above.

When my barefooting partner and I were doing deepwaters we found that the boat driver could be an enormous help in getting the skiier outside the wake with a relatively gentle S-turn. The first turn gave the skiier a little momentum to the wake and the second turn helped produce a small wake that was easy to get over.

He and I could send each other outside the wake without any effort on the barefooter at all. When he moved away I was faced with trying to get my wife to perfect the technique which she has almost done. What I did to teach her how do perform this trick as a driver was to put someone on a kneeboard in the back and told them to just sit there and not attempt to lean in or out or anything. Then had my wife try to get the kneeboarder outside the wake as gently as possible. Once she made it work for the kneeboarder I got back on the long line and she could do the same for me. Still not as good as my old buddy but pretty good for a non-footer.

The trick is to make the turns sharp enough to actually get the person outside but gentle enough that they don't go flying over the wake.

tex
10-07-2004, 01:46 PM
Tex, I don't understand your comment. Stern rollers are always going to be there when accelerating until the boat gets on plane. Not much a driver can do about it.
If your driver hammers you from the getgo, you will have a huge stern roller. If he accelerates smoothly, it is hardly noticeable(spell). This is from a guy who likes his starts hard and fast(no jokes please)!

CoFooter
10-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Tex,

fully agree with your comments. Problem is too slow will drown a big guy like me. Must have been all those beers.....

Lance,

one thing you might try if you haven't already is to (if you are trying to get to the driver side wake) cheek left first for a few feet and then cheek hard right. The extra momentum usually does it to get you over. Another thing worth mentioning, is that the driver can be an enormous help working with the footer as you have experienced, but also make it impossible to cheek out if they are not in sync or if he is driving with a slight arc in the boat path. Even going perfectly straight I sometime's can't get out and end up standing in the table and then moving to the curl.

PeteS
10-07-2004, 03:27 PM
Excellent information, you guys are on fire right now! Cofooter, Martho, and Lance have put it down with their descriptions. Sounds like I have everything I need to know now to try a deep-water start!

Now I just have to buy a decent barefoot suit, for cheap! Any inexprensive brand reccomendations?

At about what speed do you think my driver should pause at for me to get in the 3-point? Once I'm stable in the 3-point, is that the time when I motion for the driver to take me up to speed prior to standing up? Thanks again, you guys rock.

CoFooter
10-07-2004, 04:16 PM
Pete,

With a barefoot suit, you get what you pay for. Cheap suits won't hold up, fit, or protect you that well. You're looking at high $200's for a good Eagle, BI, or Intensity suit. Overtons sometimes does closeouts at about $230/$240.Sometimes you can find them used for mid-$100's. Beware, again, of cheap stuff. As far as three point, you should be able to maintain it at 5 mph or more slower than barefoot speed. In a three-point, remember to keep your knees close together to avoid spray in the face. Once you're in the three point, the driver should slowly accelerate to barefoot speed as you stand up. Let the acceleration pull you up from three point to barefoot. Or skip the extended three point and go from your butt glide with feet on the rope to standing position as I explained before. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

tex
10-08-2004, 01:45 PM
Excellent information, you guys are on fire right now! Cofooter, Martho, and Lance have put it down with their descriptions. Sounds like I have everything I need to know now to try a deep-water start!

Now I just have to buy a decent barefoot suit, for cheap! Any inexprensive brand reccomendations?

At about what speed do you think my driver should pause at for me to get in the 3-point? Once I'm stable in the 3-point, is that the time when I motion for the driver to take me up to speed prior to standing up? Thanks again, you guys rock.
go to barefootcentral.com
lakeelmosports.com
they have good suits at reasonable prices-tex

tex
10-08-2004, 01:47 PM
Tex,

fully agree with your comments. Problem is too slow will drown a big guy like me. Must have been all those beers.....

Lance,

one thing you might try if you haven't already is to (if you are trying to get to the driver side wake) cheek left first for a few feet and then cheek hard right. The extra momentum usually does it to get you over. Another thing worth mentioning, is that the driver can be an enormous help working with the footer as you have experienced, but also make it impossible to cheek out if they are not in sync or if he is driving with a slight arc in the boat path. Even going perfectly straight I sometime's can't get out and end up standing in the table and then moving to the curl.
Cofooter-Too many Beers-Why do you think that i like my starts flat stick! Have you ever heard of the saying, "give me the berries"? i like the whole f'n fruit stand!

CoFooter
10-08-2004, 02:23 PM
Tex, you da' man. Bring on them rollers. We eat nails, er, beer cans, for breakfast. I think the reason I like this sport so much is that it isn't for wussies. Everyone that's been in it for some time is tough, and a lot of fun to hang with. I'm excited just talking about it. By the way, I'm foot'n tommorow. Going to be 78 here in Colorado.

tex
10-11-2004, 09:54 AM
Tex, you da' man. Bring on them rollers. We eat nails, er, beer cans, for breakfast. I think the reason I like this sport so much is that it isn't for wussies. Everyone that's been in it for some time is tough, and a lot of fun to hang with. I'm excited just talking about it. By the way, I'm foot'n tommorow. Going to be 78 here in Colorado.
Sunny and in the 70's here in FW. I am on the shelf. I smoked my ribs and sternum doing one ski helis on the ramp last week. I did take 4 more after the big crash. They are sooooo close!

jimmer2880
10-12-2004, 08:01 AM
Don't go for a cheap suit. You only get what you pay for.

As far as I'm concerned, dolphin wetsuits are the best, hands down. Can't beat their customer service either. My dolphins have lasted 2x as long as buddies Barefoot Internationals, etc (going on 20 years now).
http://www.dolphinwetsuits.com/

just my $.02 worth. I can't say 1 bad thing about them.

captkidd
10-12-2004, 11:20 AM
I was flipping through the channels and caught a show with Gabriella Reece trying to learn to barefoot. I think the show was on FitTV (?) and features different articles on people doing extreme sports, including Gabriella trying to learn a new sport each week. She was trying to learn on the boom with a guy who looked very familiar (maybe Lane Bowers?) teaching her. I came in on the middle of the show, so I don't know what kind of boat they were using, but I think it was an outboard model. She tried several times but never actually managed to foot; she kept planting her heels and doing some massive faceplants.