PDA

View Full Version : Fluid Quantities


jrcarte78
03-28-2006, 07:33 PM
I have an '89 TriStar w/ an Indmar 351 w/ 1:1. I have searched high and low(including the F.A.Q. thread) and can't find where anyone has ever mentioned the fluid quantities for this motor and trans. I was wanting to change both oil and tranny fluid this weekend and was unsure of the amounts. Does anyone know these amounts off the top of their head? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

:confused:

Footin
03-28-2006, 08:05 PM
I THINK the motor is 5qts with the filter and the trans is about 1 3/4.

6ballsisall
03-28-2006, 08:06 PM
Tru Dat!

My 86' w/ PCM 351W was 5 quarts and the 1:1 would hold about 1 1/2-1 3/4 quarts

Footin
03-28-2006, 08:08 PM
I feel privliged, I got a "Tru Dat"

6ballsisall
03-28-2006, 08:10 PM
I feel privliged, I got a "Tru Dat"


TRU DAT :dance: u should!! :rolleyes: :D

Footin
03-28-2006, 08:12 PM
I have the original owners manuals to my old 87 PS190 with a 351 and it says:.......nothing about the engine but 1.9 quarts for the trans.

east tx skier
03-28-2006, 08:20 PM
I THINK the motor is 5qts with the filter and the trans is about 1 3/4.

That's what I was going to say. With transmission fluid, only put in what you pull out though. It's probably 1.9, but I've never pulled more than 1.75 out of there. So that's what I put back in.

A while back there was a big debate on how much oil in the 351. At least to a certain extent, it depends whether you have the long or short filter on there.

Footin
03-28-2006, 08:24 PM
Good point with the trans fluid, when I changed my last fall I only got about 1.25 quarts out. I used Mobil 1 trans fuild so I figure after the first run I will pump out another .75 quarts and dump in the rest of the sencond quart sitting in my garage.

east tx skier
03-28-2006, 08:32 PM
Oh, and just because I'm a smart a$$, I'll mention that this info is sort of in the FAQ section in the winterization checklist. ;)

For you 351 guys, I'll be adding some part numbers (mostly NAPA) in the next few minutes. Could prove helpful for the stuff that's not really marine specific. Most places can cross reference each others part numbers pretty well.

Footin
03-28-2006, 08:34 PM
Give'em hell Doug.

Sodar
03-28-2006, 08:37 PM
Am I wrong to think that the best way to check your fluid level is by the dipstick, to ensure you are running at the right level!?!?!

east tx skier
03-28-2006, 08:44 PM
Footin, you know I'm just giving him a hard time.

Cameron, that seems perfectly logical to me. When I change mine, I always check it once I'm on the water. I suppose the put in what you take out only works if you had the right amount in there to begin with. The point is, of course, is that you don't want to overfill it. When I put in what I take out, I know I'm not overfilling it. Once on the water, I can add a little at a time to get it in the green.

vogelm1
03-28-2006, 10:31 PM
Doug - FWIW, you mentioned NAPA part numbers up above and got me thinking...I've got an '05 MCX and the NAPA Gold oil filter for that (probably any year MCX) is a 1069. Never cared for the Pennzoil filters and haven't heard too much good about them...read that in an oil filter study where some guy cut apart a bunch filters and examined them. Anyway, you are WAY more computer literate than me, so maybe you can post that somewhere accessible to other fellow MC'ers in case they need to know. Thanks -
:)

jrcarte78
03-29-2006, 11:20 AM
Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback. I was thinking of the put in what you take out method, but I will be draining the oil into a drain pan w/o a way to measure what comes out. Thanks again for getting me on the right path!

east tx skier
03-29-2006, 11:45 AM
The put in what you take out is something I've always heard with regard to transmission fluid as opposed to engine oil. As far as I know, you're going to need some sort of pump to get that stuff out.

east tx skier
03-29-2006, 11:48 AM
Doug - FWIW, you mentioned NAPA part numbers up above and got me thinking...I've got an '05 MCX and the NAPA Gold oil filter for that (probably any year MCX) is a 1069. Never cared for the Pennzoil filters and haven't heard too much good about them...read that in an oil filter study where some guy cut apart a bunch filters and examined them. Anyway, you are WAY more computer literate than me, so maybe you can post that somewhere accessible to other fellow MC'ers in case they need to know. Thanks -
:)

Thanks. I'll add it with an MCX designation next to it. Anyone else with tested chevy part numbers, please let me know.

jrcarte78
03-29-2006, 01:57 PM
The put in what you take out is something I've always heard with regard to transmission fluid as opposed to engine oil. As far as I know, you're going to need some sort of pump to get that stuff out.

I was planning on picking up a drill operated pump to suck it out. I also saw a hand operated pump. But, the price seemed to be comparable to the drill pump. Anything w/ power is obviously better!! :D

LakePirate
03-29-2006, 02:06 PM
From the 89 Tristar Manual

Transmission 1:1 Ratio 2 QTS 1:1.5 Ratio 3 Qts

Dexron II

jrcarte78
03-29-2006, 02:10 PM
From the 89 Tristar Manual

Transmission 1:1 Ratio 2 QTS 1:1.5 Ratio 3 Qts

Dexron II

Thanks LP, I really appreciate that.

Also, hasn't Dexron III since replaced Dex II
i.e. put Dex III in the boat?

:confused:

BrianM
03-29-2006, 02:13 PM
Thanks. I'll add it with an MCX designation next to it. Anyone else with tested chevy part numbers, please let me know.

The NAPA 1069 filter will fit any of the Chevy 350 blocks as far as I know. I know for a fact it fits my TBI and the LT1. If you have clearance issues there is also a short version of that filter but I do not know the number.

LakePirate
03-29-2006, 02:18 PM
You should be able to right click save and resize

BrianS
03-29-2006, 02:18 PM
The owners manual for my '93 Prostar 190 w/ Indmar 351 mysteriously omits oil capacity as well. It lists the capacity of everything except that!!

I've never been able to get anywhere near 5 qts out of mine. I've drained it when it was hot, tried different angles on the trailer and used a drill pump to suck it up the dipstick. I never get more than 3 qts. I just put the same amount back in that I got out and the dipstick reads perfect.

I have the easy drain setup on mine and stick the hose out the drain hole in the hull. The drain is on the side of the pan but I doubt it would miss 2 qts. I use a Motorcraft filter and Mobil 1 15W-50. I know there has to be more oil in there, I just can't figure out how to get it out!!

jrcarte78
03-29-2006, 02:32 PM
You should be able to right click save and resize

Thanks LP! That should give me everything I need! I owe you one(or more than one).

:toast:

east tx skier
03-29-2006, 03:03 PM
The owners manual for my '93 Prostar 190 w/ Indmar 351 mysteriously omits oil capacity as well. It lists the capacity of everything except that!!

I've never been able to get anywhere near 5 qts out of mine. I've drained it when it was hot, tried different angles on the trailer and used a drill pump to suck it up the dipstick. I never get more than 3 qts. I just put the same amount back in that I got out and the dipstick reads perfect.

I have the easy drain setup on mine and stick the hose out the drain hole in the hull. The drain is on the side of the pan but I doubt it would miss 2 qts. I use a Motorcraft filter and Mobil 1 15W-50. I know there has to be more oil in there, I just can't figure out how to get it out!!

I'm going to have to search for the part number, but it's possible that your boat came with the wrong dipstick according to my source who had similar issues with his 93. When I find the part number for the correct dipstick, I'll post it so you can check yours.

And yes, put Dexron III in there if it says Dexron II. It is the replacement.

/edit. Correct dip stick for my 1993 Pro Star 205 with 351 HO was Part Number D5UE 6750 AF Ford M. I verified this with a local MC dealer.

BrianS
03-29-2006, 04:18 PM
/edit. Correct dip stick for my 1993 Pro Star 205 with 351 HO was Part Number D5UE 6750 AF Ford M. I verified this with a local MC dealer.

Thanks for the info. I will check the part number of my dipstick tonight.

TMCNo1
03-29-2006, 05:56 PM
There is close to 1 quart of oil that the filter has absorbed in most cases, remember if you put 5 qts in the engine and the filter was dry and when you took the filter off it was full of oil. During a oil change if you check the dipstick before you run the engine, than the dipstick will show over full, but after you have run it a bit and the filter fills up, the dipstick should read normal or slightly above.

jrcarte78
03-29-2006, 06:52 PM
There is close to 1 quart of oil that the filter has absorbed in most cases, remember if you put 5 qts in the engine and the filter was dry and when you took the filter off it was full of oil. During a oil change if you check the dipstick before you run the engine, than the dipstick will show over full, but after you have run it a bit and the filter fills up, the dipstick should read normal or slightly above.

Now, just to clarify, you're not saying I need 6 quarts of oil. You're just saying that my dipstick might read as being too full after 5 quarts with an empty filter(before starting engine).

Also, isn't it best to fill the replacement filter as much as possible before putting it back on??

Thanks for all the info guys--I really appreciate it!

BrianS
03-30-2006, 08:56 AM
I checked the part number on my dipstick last night and I have the right one. However, I did notice that the oil was about 1 qt low. I always have a hard time getting a good reading off my dipstick, but since the boat has been sitting all winter all the oil has drained into the pan.

When I measure what I get out I always take the oil drained from the filter into account. I also add 1/2 qt for what it trapped in the filter element. Even with all that I usually only get 3 qts.

It looks like I may have been a quart low from misreading the dipstick but that still leaves a mystery quart somewhere! Maybe I'm burning a quart over the 50 hrs, I'll have to keep a better eye on it this year.

Now, just to clarify, you're not saying I need 6 quarts of oil. You're just saying that my dipstick might read as being too full after 5 quarts with an empty filter(before starting engine).
Exactly.


Also, isn't it best to fill the replacement filter as much as possible before putting it back on??
It's always a good idea to prime the filter when changing the oil, I usually go about half full. Also, remember to lube the gasket on the filter with some oil as well.

TonyB
03-30-2006, 11:04 AM
I also have the oil drain kit that installs on the side of the oil pan (at the bottom). When the kit is fully tightened the elbow points up. It is impossible (obviously) to remove all the oil from the block with the elbow and drain tube in this position. So, I always loosen the drain kit just enough so that the elbow is pointing down and the drain hose run through the drain hole in the bottom of the hull.
http://www.overtons.com/graphics/products/large/26163L.jpg

After draining the oil and changing the filter, I immediately add 3 qts, take a cold reading on the dipstick. If less than full I add enough to bring it up to the full (or just above full) mark. Then I hook up the "Fake-a-lake" and warm up the engine a tad. I'll take another reading and add more oil if needed. Then I recrank the engine and run it until it's completely warmed up (~140 deg F). I'll make my final adjustments at this time.

It takes slightly more than 4 1/2 qts to refill the my 91 Prostar w/351.

TMCNo1
03-30-2006, 12:43 PM
What I am sayin, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, is if you put in 5 qts. into the engine and put on a new dry filter, then after the engine has been run you will have 4 qts.+/- in the pan and the dipstick reads full and there will be 1 qt.+/- in the filter.
If you fill the filter before installing, than you will put the remaining portion of the 5 qts. in the engine, then after the engine has been run you will be at the same point as above.
Six of one or half dozen of the other!

east tx skier
03-30-2006, 12:47 PM
Are you taking these readings on the water? I've always understood that to be the correct "level" place to get good readings.

BrianS
03-30-2006, 12:57 PM
Most of the time I check it on the trailer, but I have checked it in the water and didn't notice much difference. There usually seems to be oil in the dipstick tube from trailering or running around the lake all day that makes getting an accurate reading difficult.

Checking last night on the trailer after sitting all winter, it was obviously about 1 qt down. I'll be topping it off before the start of the season, and checking it periodically to see if I'm burning any. Hopefully, after the next oil change I'll be able to figure out how much is in there.

jrcarte78
03-30-2006, 01:31 PM
I also have the oil drain kit that installs on the side of the oil pan (at the bottom). When the kit is fully tightened the elbow points up. It is impossible (obviously) to remove all the oil from the block with the elbow and drain tube in this position. So, I always loosen the drain kit just enough so that the elbow is pointing down and the drain hose run through the drain hole in the bottom of the hull.
http://www.overtons.com/graphics/products/large/26163L.jpg

After draining the oil and changing the filter, I immediately add 3 qts, take a cold reading on the dipstick. If less than full I add enough to bring it up to the full (or just above full) mark. Then I hook up the "Fake-a-lake" and warm up the engine a tad. I'll take another reading and add more oil if needed. Then I recrank the engine and run it until it's completely warmed up (~140 deg F). I'll make my final adjustments at this time.

It takes slightly more than 4 1/2 qts to refill the my 91 Prostar w/351.

I have seen the drain kits.... Do you permanently install them? Or is it something that is only attached when you are changing the oil and need to drain?

If they are permanently installed I assume you would want to put it on when you have drained the engine oil?

I got the drill pump from NAPA. In theory I think it will be effective but I haven't had a chance to fire it up yet--this weekend. Also, I'm still looking for some flexible rubber tubing(preferably clear) to use as my suck/drain lines. Anyone know where I can pick some of this stuff up? I was thinking of a farm supply store maybe?

jrcarte78
03-30-2006, 01:33 PM
What I am sayin, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, is if you put in 5 qts. into the engine and put on a new dry filter, then after the engine has been run you will have 4 qts.+/- in the pan and the dipstick reads full and there will be 1 qt.+/- in the filter.
If you fill the filter before installing, than you will put the remaining portion of the 5 qts. in the engine, then after the engine has been run you will be at the same point as above.
Six of one or half dozen of the other!

Thanks for the clarification. I thought we were thinking the same thing but just wanted to make sure.

:)

east tx skier
03-30-2006, 01:38 PM
I have seen the drain kits.... Do you permanently install them? Or is it something that is only attached when you are changing the oil and need to drain?

If they are permanently installed I assume you would want to put it on when you have drained the engine oil?

I got the drill pump from NAPA. In theory I think it will be effective but I haven't had a chance to fire it up yet--this weekend. Also, I'm still looking for some flexible rubber tubing(preferably clear) to use as my suck/drain lines. Anyone know where I can pick some of this stuff up? I was thinking of a farm supply store maybe?

It's permenantly installed. I would suppose you'd want to install it with no oil in the engine. The pump will work fine though. I sometimes use the drain hose for the oil and the pump for the transmission fluid so I can do them both at the same time (saves my having to warm up the boat twice before pumping the fluid out).

TMCNo1
03-30-2006, 01:43 PM
I have seen the drain kits.... Do you permanently install them? Or is it something that is only attached when you are changing the oil and need to drain?

If they are permanently installed I assume you would want to put it on when you have drained the engine oil?

I got the drill pump from NAPA. In theory I think it will be effective but I haven't had a chance to fire it up yet--this weekend. Also, I'm still looking for some flexible rubber tubing(preferably clear) to use as my suck/drain lines. Anyone know where I can pick some of this stuff up? I was thinking of a farm supply store maybe?


Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hdwe all sizes!

jrcarte78
03-30-2006, 02:28 PM
It's permenantly installed. I would suppose you'd want to install it with no oil in the engine. The pump will work fine though. I sometimes use the drain hose for the oil and the pump for the transmission fluid so I can do them both at the same time (saves my having to warm up the boat twice before pumping the fluid out).

Thanks ETS..... Just curious. I'm anxious to use this pump this weekend.

Actually I'm just glad to be fooling w/ the boat.... It's been a long winter.

:o

jrcarte78
03-30-2006, 02:30 PM
Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hdwe all sizes!


Thanks TMC--I'll have to swing by Lowes to get some.

Also, love the sig line..... I love me some classic DAC!! His new stuff sucks a$$.

LakePirate
03-30-2006, 02:38 PM
Thanks TMC--I'll have to swing by Lowes to get some.

Also, love the sig line..... I love me some classic DAC!! His new stuff sucks a$$.

I guess he ain't read the signs that say I've been to prison..

jrcarte78
03-30-2006, 02:46 PM
I guess he ain't read the signs that say I've been to prison..

Someone better warn him 'fore I knock him off his chair!!

Great stuff!!

Kevin 89MC
04-01-2006, 01:16 AM
Back to the original question asked, for the 9 years I've owned mine, I drain my oil from a warm engine, pull the filter, put on new dry filter, put 4 quarts in, run it for ~30 seconds, check level, usually add about 1/2 qt to make it full. Check it in the spring, and when filling up w/gas. The boat came with the hose drain, it works great. Stuff it out the bildge drain, take the cap off, drain the oil with no mess.
I've occasionally had to add 1/4 qt, like less than once a year. I've never put more than 5 qts total for the whole year. If you're burning or leaking any significant amount, you'd see it in the bildge or the platform.
Good luck.

Jimmy Stephens
04-01-2006, 08:04 AM
my 83ss holds 4qt with a new filter i have a 351 pcm :wavey:

jrcarte78
04-04-2006, 05:32 PM
I got the oil, tranny fluid, and impeller changed this weekend. The impeller was in pretty sad shape. I should've saved to put up a pic but didn't. Everything went pretty smoothly and the drill pump worked great. I put 5 quarts and 2 quarts of oil and tranny fluid respectively. Dipsticks measured just right with these two amounts.

It was a little slow going pumping the tranny fluid out. I guess it was cold and didn't want to pump too fast. I think it took longer to pump the 2 quarts of cold trans fluid out than it did pump the 5 quarts of warm oil.

Now all I've got to do is clean her up real good, install the new stereo and she's ready for summer. Hopefully I can get these done in the next couple of weekends!!

Again, I appreciate everyone's help with this.

:)

east tx skier
04-04-2006, 05:42 PM
I always warm the boat up before I do each one. Like the motor oil, the tranny fluid will come out a lot quicker if it's warm.

jrcarte78
04-04-2006, 07:04 PM
I always warm the boat up before I do each one. Like the motor oil, the tranny fluid will come out a lot quicker if it's warm.

I did idle the boat for about 10-15 minutes before changing the oil. But, I didn't think anything would warm up the tranny fluid short of spinning the prop out of water. Is this acceptable? I didn't know and didn't want to take any chances. So, I was patient w/ the pumping process.

east tx skier
04-04-2006, 08:21 PM
I don't spin the prop out of the water. Didn't think about it not being warm without transmission movement. It sure came out of the reservoir easily though.

As I mentioned earlier, to avoid having to warm it up twice, last year, I just drained the oil while I pumped the transmission fluid.

Now you've got me wondering if the TF was warm.

erkoehler
04-04-2006, 08:32 PM
I did idle the boat for about 10-15 minutes before changing the oil. But, I didn't think anything would warm up the tranny fluid short of spinning the prop out of water. Is this acceptable? I didn't know and didn't want to take any chances. So, I was patient w/ the pumping process.


When I picked up my boat, they did put it in and out of gear while it was running on a "Fake-a-Lake".

Laurel_Lake_Skier
04-04-2006, 09:04 PM
I would suggest not running the boat in gear for any length of time "on the hose". Without water to lube/cool the stuffing box packing you create problems in that area and the rope/drive shaft will not seal as they should on the return to water. I think the strut bushing also is designed to run in the water and you might eventually cause excessive wear on it.

jrcarte78
04-05-2006, 11:46 AM
I don't spin the prop out of the water. Didn't think about it not being warm without transmission movement. It sure came out of the reservoir easily though.

As I mentioned earlier, to avoid having to warm it up twice, last year, I just drained the oil while I pumped the transmission fluid.

Now you've got me wondering if the TF was warm.

The TF fluid was not hard to pump out, but it didn't flow as well as the warm engine oil did.

I didn't think spinning the prop out of water was a good idea, so I just did it cold. But, like I said, it still came out, just a little slower.

east tx skier
04-05-2006, 11:55 AM
I would suggest not running the boat in gear for any length of time "on the hose". Without water to lube/cool the stuffing box packing you create problems in that area and the rope/drive shaft will not seal as they should on the return to water. I think the strut bushing also is designed to run in the water and you might eventually cause excessive wear on it.

I think you are exactly right, which is why I won't do it. I have had one person, formerly a ski boat tech, tell me that doing it infrequently will not do any damage. That said, I still won't do it.

Kevin 89MC
04-06-2006, 10:46 AM
Every fall I take my boat out for one last "cruise" to warm it up well (and shed a tear at the end of the season :cry: ), and it's usually still quite warm when I get it back home-1/2 hour away. The fluids flow nicely! I've also been told a little dry running once in a while is OK, like a few seconds, but nowhere near long enough to warm up the trans fluid. When the fluids are warm, I think more comes out, so you get a better exchange of fluids. Just my :twocents: