PDA

View Full Version : need help choosing bindings


H20skeefreek
09-21-2004, 11:45 AM
I getting ready to buy a new HO ski. If price were no object, which bindings would you choose? Basically I can get the Animals or the Phantom bindings for the same price. Any reason to not get the phantoms? to be honest I was going to buy just an animal front binding and use a RTP, but for the same price i can get the phantoms (don't ask, i can't get them for anyone else) what should i do?

east tx skier
09-21-2004, 12:20 PM
I've got animals and love them. I've been made to understand that the phantoms cause you to ride a little more weight-forward so to speak in addition to more support. They both have the superfeet insoles. If you're planning to spend some time in a course, I'd give the phantoms a shot.

chris.willman
09-21-2004, 04:19 PM
If you are trying to shave some costs (like $100), look into Wiley's bindings. I bought the HO Truth a few months ago with dbl HW, and I love them. That being said, I haven't skied in the Animals or Phantoms, so perhaps I wouldn't love them so much I had. Don't miss what you haven't experienced I guss.

You might also want to look at Wiley's to source your new ski. They gave me an exceptional deal on my Truth as a scratch and dent. No dents, and the scratch was only about 1/2" long on the top. I added more scratches after my first set than it had when I got it.

east tx skier
09-21-2004, 04:51 PM
As someone who may be buying his wife some wiley bindings, I guess I should've mentioned them as an alternative. Haven't skied them personally, but I've heard great things about them.

BrianM
09-21-2004, 05:44 PM
I love my double Wileys on my KD 7000 and my wife likes them on her ski as well. A very nice binding especially for the price.

I have been considering buying a set of Phantoms to give them a try so if you go with those let us know what you think

Brent
09-21-2004, 06:42 PM
............................

H20skeefreek
09-21-2004, 07:58 PM
I'm using KD Cinch on a HO phantom & love it (holds the ankle tight without cutting the circulation off on the rest of your foot) I had HO venoms originaly , but replaced too many wraps & had the plastic base of the binding seperate from the metal plate ( that was the last straw)!been on the KDs for 2 year & replace a wrap a year. :)


.................................................

NeilM
09-21-2004, 11:05 PM
H2O - I can't think of any reason. Personally, I really prefer laces, but, to be honest, I've not tried the Animals.

Either way, you can't go wrong...

east tx skier
09-22-2004, 11:40 AM
H20 - I think the answer is that the animals are rear lace boots versus the phantoms, which are front lace boots. The feel is different. The stance the boots put you in is different. Some people prefer one over the other for different reasons. If you can demo them, do it. A lot of people have reported problems ripping Animal overlays. Not me, but plenty have. I haven't heard of any rip problems with the phantoms, but they're a new boot.

The phatom is supposed to get you closer to a hard shell boot without actually going there. I've heard at least one report that they WILL release in a OTF fall. Granted, that's just one report.

H20skeefreek
09-22-2004, 11:54 AM
H20 - I think the answer is that the animals are rear lace boots versus the phantoms, which are front lace boots. The feel is different. The stance the boots put you in is different. Some people prefer one over the other for different reasons. If you can demo them, do it. A lot of people have reported problems ripping Animal overlays. Not me, but plenty have. I haven't heard of any rip problems with the phantoms, but they're a new boot.

The phatom is supposed to get you closer to a hard shell boot without actually going there. I've heard at least one report that they WILL release in a OTF fall. Granted, that's just one report.


unfortunatly, i won't get to demo them first. I think i'm going to go with the phantoms. worst case scenario, i'll ebay the phantoms and get the animals.

east tx skier
09-22-2004, 11:57 AM
Good call. You could probably get more for the phantoms on ebay. Let us know what you think.

H20skeefreek
09-22-2004, 12:52 PM
Good call. You could probably get more for the phantoms on ebay. Let us know what you think.


oh, you know I will!!

east tx skier
10-01-2004, 12:53 PM
Before you buy those Phantoms, you might want to check out HO's other new binding. They have it in the latest Water Ski Magazine with the ad for the new Monza. They look way comfortable.

H20skeefreek
10-01-2004, 03:13 PM
Before you buy those Phantoms, you might want to check out HO's other new binding. They have it in the latest Water Ski Magazine with the ad for the new Monza. They look way comfortable.


I've already ordered. I didn't know they had a new binding. It wasn't a choice on the form I had.

I ordered a 69" Vengeance ASX with Phantoms. Hopefully I'll get to use it before the season is over.

east tx skier
10-01-2004, 05:29 PM
You'll enjoy the ASX. It's not as fast as the truth or the CDX, but it's really stable and can be pushed hard. Let us know about those bindings. I'll probably stick with the Animals for the near future, but I always like to hear reviews. They've got some for $200 on ski-it-again.

H20skeefreek
10-07-2004, 08:36 AM
You'll enjoy the ASX. It's not as fast as the truth or the CDX, but it's really stable and can be pushed hard. Let us know about those bindings. I'll probably stick with the Animals for the near future, but I always like to hear reviews. They've got some for $200 on ski-it-again.


Well, my vengeance arrived yesterday. It's sweet, and so are the phantom bindings. I named her Cindy Lauper. I'm hoping to try her out tomorrow, but I definetly get to try her on Saturday.
:D :D :D

NeilM
10-07-2004, 11:00 AM
Well, my vengeance arrived yesterday. It's sweet, and so are the phantom bindings. I named her Cindy Lauper. I'm hoping to try her out tomorrow, but I definetly get to try her on Saturday.
:D :D :D
?? you need to draw me a picture, I think.. I don't get the connection to Cindy...:(

H20skeefreek
10-07-2004, 08:12 PM
?? you need to draw me a picture, I think.. I don't get the connection to Cindy...:(


lol, no connection at all. I name the things important to me. My truck is Hank. My Mustang was Sally (connection there). My Monte Carlo is Carla (slight connection). I was trying to come up with a name for the ski. my wife said it need a male name, i said no it's definetly a female, someone kinda punk rock.....like Cindy Lauper. My first possesion with a first and last name.

east tx skier
10-09-2004, 11:40 PM
So, H20, did you ride it? I'm dying for a report on the phantoms.

H20skeefreek
10-10-2004, 10:01 AM
yes i've ridden it, and think i'm going to love it. I've got a little tweaking to do. as far as the bindings go, the seem to be pretty nice. It's VERY different to go from a RTP, to a rather stiff rear lace up binding. One thing i noticed though, I was worried they were going to be VERY stiff, but they are still a rubber type material, so I can still move my feet somewhat. I'm going to soak them in hair conditioner to soften them a little more (wakeboarder trick). THEY ARE tough TO GET INTO THOUGH. Again, it's b/c i'm going from and adjustable mid-rap front and RTP though.

east tx skier
10-11-2004, 11:36 AM
Interesting. HO claims they're the easiest to get into of the front lace bindings. New bindings are always stiff at first. It doesn't take long to break them in though. I didn't realize you were going from RTP to full wrap. That's a drastic boot for a maiden voyage.

H20skeefreek
10-11-2004, 11:51 AM
Interesting. HO claims they're the easiest to get into of the front lace bindings. New bindings are always stiff at first. It doesn't take long to break them in though. I didn't realize you were going from RTP to full wrap. That's a drastic boot for a maiden voyage.


yes, it is a very drastic change, but for the same price, it seemed silly for me to get something in between.

It may be the easiest to get into of the front lace bindings, but it's still tough. I'd welcome any tips for getting into them.

Here's what i'm currently doing. I dunk the whole ski in the water, then I place the ski on the platform side to side. I squirt some soap (biodegradable) into the boots. I then step into the front boot. I pull hte laces tight, then the instep strap. I then try to place my rear foot in and bust my butt b/c the ski tries to slide off the platform. I almost fall back into the back seat of the boat, clunk my head with the ski, get back into position and try again. The second try i'm usually succesful at getting the ski on and beating up my swim platform. HELP!!!

bcampbe7
10-11-2004, 02:09 PM
Try putting the rear foot in first...

ktn_cmu
10-11-2004, 02:44 PM
I too put the rear foot in first...I found it to be much easier!!! Second...don't just squirt the slime in the boot (I happen to use dish soap, and I really think it works better), but squirt it in and then smear it around with your hand until it is all spread out really well (til it is foamy or you have worked it into a lather), then get your foot wet, and it should slide in pretty easily. I ski with double contact high-wraps (rear laces) and have no trouble getting in them...getting out...that's another story...

André
10-11-2004, 04:31 PM
Thomas
How were you feeling with the rear full boot instead of the RTP? Tried it twice and couldn't feel comfortable.
Doug is right,new ski,new bindings set up,that's a new ballgame.Could take you a while to get use to it.Try to be more patient than me!
I was told to put backfeet first too when i tried it .

east tx skier
10-11-2004, 05:44 PM
This is a variation on what KTN said. Basically, you want to move that soap around a bit. I'd recommend cutting whatever you're using with about 1/4 water. After you squirt it, an alternative to using your hands is to step down on top of each boot a couple of times thereby squishing the stuff around. I have my ski near the edge of the platform with the fin off the port side of the platform. Once it's on, I bend my knees and jump straight up. When the ski's off the platform, I pull my legs away from the boat so the ski lands on the water. There is minimal scratching to the platform this way.

Two questions regarding the slippage. Do you have a varnish on your platform? Also, did you rub down the bottom of the ski with soap and water before its maiden voyage? There's usually some sort of film on the bottom of new skis that needs to be removed. Soap and water is ordinarily all it takes.

H20skeefreek
10-11-2004, 08:05 PM
This is a variation on what KTN said. Basically, you want to move that soap around a bit. I'd recommend cutting whatever you're using with about 1/4 water. After you squirt it, an alternative to using your hands is to step down on top of each boot a couple of times thereby squishing the stuff around. I have my ski near the edge of the platform with the fin off the port side of the platform. Once it's on, I bend my knees and jump straight up. When the ski's off the platform, I pull my legs away from the boat so the ski lands on the water. There is minimal scratching to the platform this way.

Two questions regarding the slippage. Do you have a varnish on your platform? Also, did you rub down the bottom of the ski with soap and water before its maiden voyage? There's usually some sort of film on the bottom of new skis that needs to be removed. Soap and water is ordinarily all it takes.


no varnish, and I did wash the ski. I washed it with the same soap i use for the bindings. (ivory dish shhhhh) I'll try the rear foot first next time. And I'll try being more thorough in my soaping. Can't dilute yet, as the soap is still almost full.

Andre, to be honest, compared to the feeling of the RTP, i really don't like it yet. For one, it's more constircting and two, when i free ski, i sometimes like to take the back foot out and 1/2 barefoot. Don't have that option with this ski. I know I'll ski better with this boot though, and i think it's safer. I"ve had my rear foot come out and my front foot stay in before. It's pretty painful. I've also had the ski come off my rear foot and have the ski hit my knee, I don't think it's as likely for the ski to hit me with this setup

ktn_cmu
10-12-2004, 09:48 AM
When I switched from RTP to a double bobt setup it was really awkward for me as well. Plus, I used to do the same thing while skiing (pull my back foot out) as a rest move, and so I could stretch my leg out. Plus, I used to stand on the dock and jump to get started...the audience loved it and I was dry. Now I have to start in the deep every time, and the water gets pretty chilly up here (our lake this year never reached more than 69 degrees). But I won't go back...I value my knees too much. It is hard to show off when ya got your femur sticking out of your skin...

Kyle

jimmer2880
10-12-2004, 12:35 PM
When I switched from RTP to a double bobt setup it was really awkward for me as well. Plus, I used to do the same thing while skiing (pull my back foot out) as a rest move, and so I could stretch my leg out. Plus, I used to stand on the dock and jump to get started...the audience loved it and I was dry. Now I have to start in the deep every time, and the water gets pretty chilly up here (our lake this year never reached more than 69 degrees). But I won't go back...I value my knees too much. It is hard to show off when ya got your femur sticking out of your skin...

Kyle
you can still do your dock starts, just stand side-ways, hanging your skeg out over the side. Hope off the dock when the rope gets tight & hold on. Helps if the boat is at a 45deg angle facing the same direction you are.

ktn_cmu
10-12-2004, 12:54 PM
you can still do your dock starts, just stand side-ways, hanging your skeg out over the side. Hope off the dock when the rope gets tight & hold on. Helps if the boat is at a 45deg angle facing the same direction you are.

Hey...it's worth a try!!!

Ryan
05-23-2005, 04:44 PM
I just got an Obrien Verdict with double Contacts I have a size 13 and ordered the XXLs. It still took me 10 very frustrating minutes to get into these things! I was exhausted by the time I got into the water. These were easier to get into than the BIOs at the shop. They felt great once I was in, but I want them softer so I can get in and get out of. Maybe I'll remove them from the ski and wear them to work...

What else have you guys used besides Hair Conditioner? Or what brand have you used? How hot was the water? Is there any threat of discoloration? My bubble-gum conditioner might turn them pink...

Seriously, though I don't want to wait a whole season to break these in, I won't push myself as hard while I'm afraid my knees will snap when I don't come out of the ski. I used about 1/3 of a bottle of Overtons lube and also tried some Connelly stuff.

USC8791
05-23-2005, 05:19 PM
I use regular old dish soap (Joy, Palmolive etc..). Although it sounds like yours are too tight and won't release even if you do get into them. You may want to try hardshells like Fogmans. The whole plate with bindings releases in a fall. I believe H2Osmosis is the sole dist/mfg for Fogman now.

USC8791
05-23-2005, 05:21 PM
With size 13 feet, why do you even need a ski? :D

LakePirate
05-23-2005, 05:27 PM
With size 13 feet, why do you even need a ski? :D

Hey! :rant:

You know what they say about guys with big feet......

LakePirate
05-23-2005, 05:28 PM
They wear big shoes

H20skeefreek
05-23-2005, 05:28 PM
they need big socks

east tx skier
05-23-2005, 06:21 PM
Ryan, do you put your ski on while on the platform? Here's my procedure to get my animals on. I used to use the O'Brien contacts and it worked fine for them, too.

1. Get on platform (set handle on transom).
2. Dip entire ski in water to wet boots.
3. Set ski near edge (water) on platform with fin hanging off the right side. (left side will work, too).
4. Squirt dish soap (or whatever lube) into each boot liberally. I use about 60/40 water to dove dish soap.
5. Step on the top of both boots and squish them down a few times. This helps disperse the soap.
6. Stick your toes into the top of the boot as far as you can. Grab the back and pull hard (like a shoe horn). Repeat for each boot.
7. Pick up the handle.
8. Do a deep knee bend and jump up and out from the platform. Don't just fall over as this could mar your ski and your platform.

Some people don't like to stand on their platforms. That's fine. But they're not going to sit on mine and kick my transom with their ski. They can either stand and put the ski on or jump in and put it on . Much easier standing.

Ryan
05-23-2005, 06:54 PM
I always use the patform, hold the boarding handle, and do all other steps except stomp on the boots. Instead, I keep my gloves off by the handle, so that I can rub the soap in really well bare-handed.

I'll admit I was puting my front foot in first. Trial and error let me figure out puting the back in was much easier. Maybe I'll have a different attitude when I do it quick and back foot first.

Ryan
06-06-2005, 02:03 PM
I got some good advice from Endos ski shop in LB CA. They said to remove the bindings, soak them in hot water, put them on and cinch them up really tight so the overlays will break in, then sit for a while.

[edit] That's a tape from my hillbilly video trakker.

ski36short
06-06-2005, 02:32 PM
That picture is sweet, if only to another skier!

Ryan
06-06-2005, 04:10 PM
I was thinking I would wear them to work. :D There is no dress code since I work in my garage.

To further the break in, I am also trying this! One liter water bottles slightly cinched in.

east tx skier
06-06-2005, 04:20 PM
Hmm. Never tried rear boot first. I remember my "contacts" being really tight at first. Just ski 'em for a while, they'll loosen up.

MarkP
06-06-2005, 06:02 PM
Hmm. Never tried rear boot first. I remember my "contacts" being really tight at first. Just ski 'em for a while, they'll loosen up.
I think with a size 13 it might take a little extra effort :eek:

A man has got to do what a man has got to do:purplaugh