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teamstreng
03-06-2006, 06:24 PM
Our local government may be trying to ban wakeboarding boats on our local boarding/sking hotspot. One of the anticipated arguments is boat wake size and it's effects on other boats and the shoreline. My questions are:1) Has anyone else gone through this battle? 2) What were the results? and 3) Does anyone have information or studies performed of the effects of boat wakes on errosion?

Thanks.

AirJunky
03-06-2006, 06:32 PM
Do a Google search on lakes like Lake Oswego, OR or Canyon Lake, CA. Also Malibu is supposedly working on a special boat that disables the ballast system.

In a nutshell 1)yes, it's been done. 2.)After wakeboarders, it'll be skiers & jetskiers..... everyone but canoers. 3)Not specifically, but check out the themalibucrew.com for the boat mentioned above. There was data to back it up.

X-45
03-06-2006, 06:35 PM
So this lake doesn't have any inboard/outboard boats or cruisers.
:rant:

rodltg2
03-06-2006, 06:36 PM
im all for it! :D

Footin
03-06-2006, 06:58 PM
Where did you hear this? where are they trying to ban them from?

stevo137
03-06-2006, 07:09 PM
I going to give you my honest opinion. I have nothing against wakeboarding but it has gotten to the point on our lake that I have thought about getting out of the sport altogether.
The only time that you can ski is very early am and that's it. The lake is getting so crowded with wake boats and jetskis that it is actually getting dangerous. The wakes are huge and they tend to monopolize the best water on the lake for long periods of time. If you have never been in a ski boat and hit a wakeboard boat wake, I suggest that you try it sometime and then you will understand.
They send multidirectional wakes due to the fact that it seems like most of the boarders aren't very good and they fall quite frequently and the drivers circle around to pick them without slowing down very much.
And now they are building 40 new condos with slips which will magnify the problem. We aren't fortunate enough to have another lake that is very close and I'm not interested in trailering every time that I want to use my boat.
I think that in general, boarders and skiers don't totally understand each others sport and I'm not sure that most of the boarders that I see out there even need a wake of that size.
My optimism that we can all coexist on the same lake and enjoy our sport is fading quickly.

rodltg2
03-06-2006, 07:12 PM
whats also ridiculoas is that lots of people think that they need a huge wake to wakeboard when they suck so bad that it would even matter.

Leroy
03-06-2006, 07:22 PM
Bigger is better!

What about wakesurfing?

Sodar
03-06-2006, 07:25 PM
Our local government may be trying to ban wakeboarding boats on our local boarding/sking hotspot. One of the anticipated arguments is boat wake size and it's effects on other boats and the shoreline. My questions are:1) Has anyone else gone through this battle? 2) What were the results? and 3) Does anyone have information or studies performed of the effects of boat wakes on errosion?

Thanks.

I will second the Canyon Lake story! My friend purchased a new Super Air Nautique, only to have it banned from the lake a few months later! I guess you just need to take up skiing! ;)

X-45
03-06-2006, 07:30 PM
Our local government may be trying to ban wakeboarding boats on our local boarding/sking hotspot. One of the anticipated arguments is boat wake size and it's effects on other boats and the shoreline.
Thanks.

Fact is that a ski boats wake are flat just behind due to two waves canceling each other out. Go back about 100 ft and there is a large wake. If the wakeboarders are banned, so are the slalom skiers. I’d say is an all or nothing deal :twocents:

AirJunky
03-06-2006, 07:35 PM
I going to give you my honest opinion. I have nothing against wakeboarding but it has gotten to the point on our lake that I have thought about getting out of the sport altogether.......
I hate to tell ya, Stevo...... but this is why I got out of wakeboarding 10 yrs ago & started flying above the water.

Sodar
03-06-2006, 07:40 PM
Fact is that a ski boats wake are flat just behind due to two waves canceling each other out. Go back about 100 ft and there is a large wake. If the wakeboarders are banned, so are the slalom skiers. I’d say is an all or nothing deal :twocents:

Dude, that is a bad argument! I have never heard of a slalom boat that throws a 3 foot roller at 100' behind the boat!

The fact is that when a wakeboard boat goes by on my lake, boats gets tossed, the wakes come over the retaining walls and flood the lawns, the decking on the docks gets smacked and comes loose and my sand beach errodes about 3 feet each year, pulling the sand out to make an already shallow lake even shallower! Here is the rule that needs to be implemented, if you are an awesome boarder and do not fall every 100 feet, go for the yacht sized wake... you deserve it, but if your 5 year old son is behind the boat, not able to get out of the wake, what is the point of having a chest sized wake for him! Is your wake size an extension of something!?!?!?! ;) I am just pitching $hit, no one needs to get worked up!

PendO
03-06-2006, 07:41 PM
Fact is that a ski boats wake are flat just behind due to two waves canceling each other out. Go back about 100 ft and there is a large wake. If the wakeboarders are banned, so are the slalom skiers. I’d say is an all or nothing deal :twocents:

There might be a large wake from RodL's boat 100' back, but the wake of a 190/197 or 205 / 209 is damn small compared to a V-drive ... on the positive side, could help bring the property values down:)

PendO
03-06-2006, 07:44 PM
Dude, that is a bad argument! I have never heard of a slalom boat that throws a 3 foot roller at 100' behind the boat!

The fact is that when a wakeboard boat goes by on my lake, boats gets tossed, the wakes come over the retaining walls and flood the lawns, the decking on the docks gets smacked and comes loose and my sand beach errodes about 3 feet each year, pulling the sand out to make an already shallow lake even shallower! Here is the rule that needs to be implemented, if you are an awesome boarder and do not fall every 100 feet, go for the yacht sized wake... you deserve it, but if your 5 year old son is behind the boat, not able to get out of the wake, what is the point of having a chest sized wake for him! Is your wake size an extension of something!?!?!?! ;) I am just pitching $hit, no one needs to get worked up!


It would be a great advertising scheme for a boat lift salesperson ... big *** boat goes by (back and forth for a few hours) then the hoist guy come around to all the boats tethered up:) However, there are a few boats that I do enjoy rockin' the hell out of (time after time)

88 PS190
03-06-2006, 07:52 PM
On our lake i don't expect seeing any bans anytime soon (i wish) people running a 7 mile by 2 mile lake with 35+ foot speed boats and such, and loosing props at the boat launches.

Anyway, we have had a section of wood lifted off our dock by a roller pitched after a wakeboarder fell out front. My ski went out into the lake too, if i hadn't been near by it'd have been lost to that. And that is rediculous.

not against the sport or the boats, just its impossible to live next to them, and by far and large the drivers on our lake have the same respect for your space as I/O tubers and jet skis do.

I've even had a wakeboard boat owner (moomba) pull a rider up from the dock go straight through in front of our boat, so my driver had to steer hard left, I then bit it from the boat turning. Very painful event. Never had any owner of a DD ski boat do that to me before. If you are using a stretch of water, they'll wait, and go the other way.

ntidsl
03-06-2006, 07:57 PM
Wakeboard boats, Carvers, Over loaded I/Os not on plane...people are inconsiderate and can ruin it for the rest of us. If they are looking to ban wakeboard boats there is probably a reason. There are probably a few ***holes not considering others. If thats the case, the other wakeboarders need to step up and say something to them and kick them off the lake before all wakeboard boats are banned. If it were up to me I'd ban 43' Carvers running 20 mph 30 feet off my dock...trust me if the law was proposed there is a reason and chances are you know why!!!

X-45
03-06-2006, 07:58 PM
So where do you make the cut. 197, X-7, 209, X-9, 205, X-2, X-1? Same hulls.

rodltg2
03-06-2006, 08:01 PM
Our local government may be trying to ban wakeboarding boats on our local boarding/sking hotspot. One of the anticipated arguments is boat wake size and it's effects on other boats and the shoreline. My questions are:1) Has anyone else gone through this battle? 2) What were the results? and 3) Does anyone have information or studies performed of the effects of boat wakes on errosion?

Thanks.


your profile states that you have an x9. would this affect you? where do they draw the line on whats considred a wakeboard boat and whats not. based on length or will the "X" make it a wakeboard boat..

PendO
03-06-2006, 08:05 PM
Is it possible to map the IP address that the email came from and see if it really originated from the UK? or does routing it thru the verizon domain make it appear to be from the US?

ntidsl
03-06-2006, 08:07 PM
I think that's the land owners decision honestly...if its a lake and their boats are getting tossed by boats that throw huge wakes and there are certain boats that look like that then they'll ban boats that look like that...All I'm saying that it can probably be resolved by kicking a couple bad apples off the lake...its a tough subject; its stereotyping and it sucks but it happens. I am a land owner on water and I know my land erodes and my docks get trashed and I can't keep my boat in the water on Sunday and most of the time it happens because people who arent land owners dont f****** care about other people.

88 PS190
03-06-2006, 08:08 PM
ballast restrictions are likely the easiest way to figure out what boats not to allow.

it really depends on the structure and size of these lakes as well.

Personally, i just wish people who tubed would go out in the middle of the lake leave the shores protected.

PendO
03-06-2006, 08:09 PM
So where do you make the cut. 197, X-7, 209, X-9, 205, X-2, X-1? Same hulls.

Usually it is a lenght thing ... tough to regulate the activity ... I remember when the started cracking down on jumping wakes with jet skis ... we had this old search and rescue guy "Charlie" who would chase us down, and we would just jump his wake as he screamed at us ... the jet skis would be put away by the time the sheriff's boat made the 30 mile trip;)

88 PS190
03-06-2006, 08:11 PM
see pendo you're the reason people dislike jetskiers. you are "that guy?

Eagle
03-06-2006, 08:12 PM
I will second the Canyon Lake story! My friend purchased a new Super Air Nautique, only to have it banned from the lake a few months later! I guess you just need to take up skiing! ;)
You can still wakeboard on the backwater at Canyon Lake.

ntidsl
03-06-2006, 08:13 PM
pendo is a bad apple...just kidding...man that was fun back in the day...anymore jet skis and the sort are too expensive to be jumping like that...and thank god a little quieter...i hate sitting out with my last cold beer of the day overlooking a quiet river and someone on a waverunner starts buzzing around right in front of your dock...they are like..."hey look someone to watch me go in circles..." that drives me crazy!!!

André
03-06-2006, 08:13 PM
On a nearby lake they're thinking of banning any device that makes the wake bigger...
We had a Correct Craft 226 SAN 2 years ago on our small 1000' wide lake.Johnboats and docks were flying all over the place 30 minutes after they launch.
They woke up to a broken windshield.
Wonder who did it...(Not me!)
Guys were wakeboarding with an orange Buoy-o-boy vest on a 112 000 $ cdn boat.

QBhater
03-06-2006, 08:14 PM
Is it the Boat or the act of wakeboarding that they are banning?

PendO
03-06-2006, 08:15 PM
see pendo you're the reason people dislike jetskiers. you are "that guy?

Hey now, it's my river:) We have 5 old school jet skis circa lat 80's ... haven't been started in a few seasons, but dam they were fun!

ntidsl
03-06-2006, 08:23 PM
Well even with a house on what used to be a quiet river I had to break down and join a private lake to ski on...thats how bad jet skis and cruisers have gotten on my stretch...we dont have too many problems with "wakeboard" boats, mostly sterndrives not on plane trying to pull someone "wakeboarding" if thats what they want to call that...I'd welcome a wakeboard boat if they'd stay in a straight line and idle back to their downed boarder...like we do when we ski...its just common courtesy..but most people don't...actually most people just have no idea how to bat at all...thats a whole nother thread though...

ntidsl
03-06-2006, 08:24 PM
holy cow..I'm gonna break 100 posts tonight...

erkoehler
03-06-2006, 08:25 PM
Is it the Boat or the act of wakeboarding that they are banning?


Usually it is the wake enhancement devices that get banned.

AirJunky
03-06-2006, 08:37 PM
You can still wakeboard on the backwater at Canyon Lake.Yea, but there are size restrictions on the boat (20') & time restrictions for how long you can run at speed (15 min.).

WilliM1940
03-06-2006, 09:06 PM
I was wondering if this would happen. We bought our old 85 S&S this year, and I never was at the lake when the conditions weren't like water moguls. I never did get to ski behind it this past year. One time we parked it about 100 feet off shore to swim if nothing else, and this wakeboard boat came by 30 feet off the bow. What it added to the wave action submerged my bow and sent about 10-15 gallons of water over the windshield and into the interior of the boat. This thing needs more freeboard and a blunter bow like a '76.

Sodar
03-06-2006, 09:09 PM
You can still wakeboard on the backwater at Canyon Lake.

Yeah, but there are size restrictions and restrictions on the number of boats, plus no wake enhancing devices.

tex
03-06-2006, 09:17 PM
Ok my thoughts-I jump, foot, and sky ski most of the time. I do love to strap on a board from time to time. 2 years ago we were at the Brazo for the Texas Fly In. Late in the day, we are kicking back standing beside the boat in waist deep water(adult beverages involved). A dude goes by pulling a surfer behind a loaded down boat(bu). He was at least 100 yeards away. By the time his waves hit us-I could relate to the homeowners. I could not beleive how big and how far they carried. While i DON'T want boats banned!!!!!!!, it made you think!

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 09:28 PM
I have said this before regarding wake boats. I wondered how long it would take before someone ended it all. Last year we were working our little piece of heaven when a WMD that was circling the entire lake decided to come by as we were doing our 36mph run. Lost four fillings and three kidneys! I love the boats and the fun behind them but I notice the boats docked in the idle zone rocking to beat h**l everytime they spin around. Most on the lake we ski at have sea walls so it only destroys the water for a little longer than the norm. I have seen those wakes lift a boat off a shore station though! There are some lakes that it just does not make sense but as long as the morons on our little lake can have 36' yachts I say let the wakers stay. We can figure it out ourselves.

PendO
03-06-2006, 09:30 PM
Usually it is the wake enhancement devices that get banned.

never heard of that ... got a link?

mitch
03-06-2006, 10:04 PM
Not for nothing, but you should fix your dock so that doesn;t happen. I've built plenty of docks and I'm not being wise, I mean if a wake is doing damage to the dock, the dock bites and needs some TLC. Prepare

On our lake its not just the boarders that churn up the water we got the tubers and surfers, cruisers, and that chunky guy in the I/O sitting on top of his seat driving 50' feet from shore at 9mph. All of this causing no damage to my boats/docks. I have whips and the MC has never hit the dock You gotta prepare. Nothing churns up our lake like 6 i/o's pulling tubers round and round and round (and round). We got the skiers and footers too. They blast by my camp every weekend at 6:15AM. They're nice guys enjoying their sport, whattaya gonna do. If I'm up I'm usually able to enjoy a 40mph faceplant or two. We're out early (7:30~8ish) skiing too and I'm sure that bothers some (these are not quiet boats) and I fill my 1100lb ballast to board and I'm sure that bothers others. Chit happens, you deal w/ it as a price to pay for being on the lake. :twocents:



On our lake i don't expect seeing any bans anytime soon (i wish) people running a 7 mile by 2 mile lake with 35+ foot speed boats and such, and loosing props at the boat launches.

Anyway, we have had a section of wood lifted off our dock by a roller pitched after a wakeboarder fell out front. My ski went out into the lake too, if i hadn't been near by it'd have been lost to that. And that is rediculous.

not against the sport or the boats, just its impossible to live next to them, and by far and large the drivers on our lake have the same respect for your space as I/O tubers and jet skis do.

I've even had a wakeboard boat owner (moomba) pull a rider up from the dock go straight through in front of our boat, so my driver had to steer hard left, I then bit it from the boat turning. Very painful event. Never had any owner of a DD ski boat do that to me before. If you are using a stretch of water, they'll wait, and go the other way.

mitch
03-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Man I wish more people would idle back to their down skier/rider. Would seem like common sense


Well even with a house on what used to be a quiet river I had to break down and join a private lake to ski on...thats how bad jet skis and cruisers have gotten on my stretch...we dont have too many problems with "wakeboard" boats, mostly sterndrives not on plane trying to pull someone "wakeboarding" if thats what they want to call that...I'd welcome a wakeboard boat if they'd stay in a straight line and idle back to their downed boarder...like we do when we ski...its just common courtesy..but most people don't...actually most people just have no idea how to bat at all...thats a whole nother thread though...

erkoehler
03-06-2006, 10:09 PM
never heard of that ... got a link?

I think I read it on here somewhere in the past....

sprink
03-06-2006, 10:09 PM
I guess it's time to get a big shovel and start digging a ski lake. Hey - your all invited once I am done. First I guess i better buy some land....

rodltg2
03-06-2006, 10:13 PM
i big shovel? if you start now maybe we can ski there in 2020

88 PS190
03-06-2006, 10:18 PM
we cannot use permanant build to fit docks. ours are metal frames, that wood segments sit down into, they're 1.5 feet off the water. it takes quite the wave action to move them.

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 10:20 PM
I have also said before that the best river I skied on was the Scioto in Columbus Ohio. When I was there, evidently not now. there was a tow only zone, an idle only zone and a chaos zone. Maybe waterways can be divided so all can get along. By far the worst wakes I have hit during socalled ski time were put up behind wake boats. No offense to Mitch but the guy he is describing is rarely out at 5,6,7,8 or even 9 am. I go out at 5:30 and one pass of the WMD (Wake of Mass Destruction) can kill the water more so if there are sea walls. No offense again but lets face it! These boats are in your face space invaders! (I love these boats) They are loud, speakers blaring at 5:am for the skier? The entire design is seen by an outsider as offensive! Blaring speakers, huge wakes and extreme paintschemes. The old fogies that control yours and my waterways will target the most offensive every time. We need to work together as watersports enthusiasts to make sure this does not happen. We can't take sides when we need to work on making the waterways as user (all users even tubers) friendly as possible. Worry about the drunks (yes I Hoosier said that!) and the wreckless. ;)

AirJunky
03-06-2006, 10:23 PM
Not for nothing, but you should fix your dock so that doesn;t happen. I've built plenty of docks and I'm not being wise, I mean if a wake is doing damage to the dock, the dock bites and needs some TLC. Prepare

On our lake its not just the boarders that churn up the water we got the tubers and surfers, cruisers, and that chunky guy in the I/O sitting on top of his seat driving 50' feet from shore at 9mph. All of this causing no damage to my boats/docks. I have whips and the MC has never hit the dock You gotta prepare. Nothing churns up our lake like 6 i/o's pulling tubers round and round and round (and round). We got the skiers and footers too. They blast by my camp every weekend at 6:15AM. They're nice guys enjoying their sport, whattaya gonna do. If I'm up I'm usually able to enjoy a 40mph faceplant or two. We're out early (7:30~8ish) skiing too and I'm sure that bothers some (these are not quiet boats) and I fill my 1100lb ballast to board and I'm sure that bothers others. Chit happens, you deal w/ it as a price to pay for being on the lake. :twocents:
Man, I hear that, Mitch. I do the same thing..... adapt. But I've been to Lake Oswego & it would take a lot of adapting to make that place safe for X-Stars & VLXs with tons of weight. They have fixed docks & seawalls that are literally only a foot off the surface of the water..... all over the place. And the community is run by a bunch of older golf types. Hardly the kind of place that a wakeboard boat full of young guys, with their tunes cranked up & their 3' rollers are going to be welcome.
I have 800 lbs in my own boat too. And while I'm not the type to be out riding at 7am, I might have my tunes turned up a bit at 9pm on a Saturday night, or even take a midnight run once per summer. I adapt to the conditions I'm given, within reason. And I hope to see others adapt a little bit too, within reason.
As for the weight enhancement devices issue, the only "law" I know of first hand is the Coast Guards written on your hull. Exceed it, whether it be in people, lead or water ballast, and your running the boat illegally.

LakePirate
03-06-2006, 10:26 PM
I happen to know someone in the seawall business (my brother) so if you are worried about the erosion...Now, I am one who is against the seawall due to the fact that it causes the wake to reverberate back into the water ( that's right big word).

The wakeboard boat causes a huge wake, and as many have said, most do not need it. Our problem is the tourons who cruise by real slow (not planed off) that think they are doing a good deed by going slow, sending the 5 foot roller at the dock and everyone on it. They just can seem to understand why I am yelling at them to speed up.

88 PS190
03-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Gotta accept that on large numbers of natural lakes (including ours) you are not allowed to have seawalls, permanant docks etc. etc. Therefore everything has to be easily removable to pull it every fall before the ice forms.

Fact is our dock segments has stayed put except in one particularly horrible storm that pulled the neighbors boat off of the shorestation and sent it across the lake. During which we lost one wooden segment. To have a boat's rollers do this is INSANE.

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 10:49 PM
Anyone seen the seawalls that actually catch the water and release it backk slowly? I have heard no reverb to use Pirates word.
PS. You think Pirate stole his MC? :confused: I happen to know someone in the seawall business (my brother) so if you are worried about the erosion...Now, I am one who is against the seawall due to the fact that it causes the wake to reverberate back into the water ( that's right big word).

The wakeboard boat causes a huge wake, and as many have said, most do not need it. Our problem is the tourons who cruise by real slow (not planed off) that think they are doing a good deed by going slow, sending the 5 foot roller at the dock and everyone on it. They just can seem to understand why I am yelling at them to speed up.

LakePirate
03-06-2006, 11:01 PM
PS. You think Pirate stole his MC? :confused:

Stole my MC?


You know it.


I haven't seen those walls yet, but I will look into them and get my brother to start building them instead of the geostone walls he is building now.

Leroy
03-06-2006, 11:05 PM
To your question. Sounds like a bunch of people wining after they own 50' of shoreline on a public lake and picking on an easy target. From what I understand Mastercraft might not even be in business if not for wakeboarding boats now. Anyone care to guess the ratio of wakeboard vs ski boat sales I was told during the tour? How many 190's vs boarding boats?

I just think everyone needs to be more tolerant. When I look at the +35' boats on our lake, the tubers, the cruisers, everyone deserves their time. Public lake....we should all enjoy, and I like HB's post on dividing up the lake, maybe that is the next action to take.

I almost think the boat manufacturers should be asked to be involved. This will impact them. Bottom line is this country needs more lakes and most lakes I know of were built in the 40's/50's/60's by the government. Very few public lakes have been built in the past 40 years that I know of.

Our local government may be trying to ban wakeboarding boats on our local boarding/sking hotspot. One of the anticipated arguments is boat wake size and it's effects on other boats and the shoreline. My questions are:1) Has anyone else gone through this battle? 2) What were the results? and 3) Does anyone have information or studies performed of the effects of boat wakes on errosion?

Thanks.

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:13 PM
Great point Leroy! I would love to be the guy whining that owns the 4-6 million dollar house on Geist that has the dock out front with the paddle boat, Hover Craft and the unused I/O! On public water I might ad! Unfortunately we have to cater to these guys and the wake boats would be less of a target if they weren't saying, "I have an audacious boat, huge wake and I am gonna crank my tower speakers all day to make sure I am offensive to you! Oh yeah I forgot SKEELER! I am also gonna have a bunch of naked women you can't get on board! I don't know about you guys but to me that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PendO
03-06-2006, 11:28 PM
I think I read it on here somewhere in the past....

In other words you are imagining it?

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:30 PM
Finally Erk has a post with some substance and it was all just a dream! What is this site coming to! :D I think I have heard the same thing but also thought "what!" Kind of like my Valkyrie having 50 of it's some odd 120 hp banned on the road! I am gonna use it if you have allowed me the forum! ;) In other words you are imagining it?

jeverett
03-06-2006, 11:32 PM
At the end of the day though people need to realize that they are resposnible for your own wake! I love wakeboarding, haven't done the wake surfing (Skating) thing but I am sure it won't be long before that happens.

PendO
03-06-2006, 11:33 PM
Finally Erk has a post with some substance and it was all just a dream! What is this site coming to! :D

The line between dreams and reality becomes a bit fuzzy after his 100th post of the day. Now if it was a trailer with the wrong shaped lights he could track it down, guaranteed.

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:36 PM
I think we can all agree that we love the best of both worlds. The problem is that we ae pissing off those that do not partake but hold the cards. We need Skeeler to set an example that even the people we speak of can have babes at their beckon not with their $$$ but with their WAKEBOAT!!! Wakey's attract babes! If I am ever stricken by the single and 40+ bug I am goin Wakey! I skate, I wake, I slalom and I drink! For this I stink at many levels!

X45owner
03-06-2006, 11:37 PM
Sounds like the bickering between snow skiers and snowboarders in the early 80's. Snowboarders were banned at most large resorts. It wasn't intil the mid to late 80's that the larger resorts allowed snowboarders. Have you noticed the ratio of snowboarders to snow skiers today. Just food for thought.

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:39 PM
Remeber Hi Bob! How about someone chugs everytime Erk posts! We will get sh****ced! No offense Erk you are main' my insobriety fun! :D The line between dreams and reality becomes a bit fuzzy after his 100th post of the day. Now if it was a trailer with the wrong shaped lights he could track it down, guaranteed.

AirJunky
03-06-2006, 11:40 PM
I skate, I wake, I slalom and I drink! For this I stink at many levels!
Oh my! :uglyhamme This is a classic line, Bob! Too damn funny! :headbang:

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:40 PM
Are you saying kill them off or just wait until they die off naturally? :confused: Sounds like the bickering between snow skiers and snowboarders in the early 80's. Snowboarders were banned at most large resorts. It wasn't intil the mid to late 80's that the larger resorts allowed snowboarders. Have you noticed the ratio of snowboarders to snow skiers today. Just food for thought.

Leroy
03-06-2006, 11:41 PM
HB you are up! That brings it home and pisses me off that people buy those houses on a public lake (the size of a bath tub) and then want to make it private for themselves restricting everyone elses use......most of the people I know of living around there complain of the people out there at 6AM running their ski boat back and forth...guess that would be us!:D

Who paid the big dollars years ago to put the lake in?


Great point Leroy! I would love to be the guy whining that owns the 4-6 million dollar house on Geist that has the dock out front with the paddle boat, Hover Craft and the unused I/O! On public water I might ad! Unfortunately we have to cater to these guys and the wake boats would be less of a target if they weren't saying, "I have an audacious boat, huge wake and I am gonna crank my tower speakers all day to make sure I am offensive to you! Oh yeah I forgot SKEELER! I am also gonna have a bunch of naked women you can't get on board! I don't know about you guys but to me that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:44 PM
Thanks AJ for reminding me I have another level I have not tried! 8p Oh my! :uglyhamme This is a classic line, Bob! Too damn funny! :headbang:

Leroy
03-06-2006, 11:44 PM
Here here! The ski places would go broke now if they took away the boarders. Same trend in both sports.

Sounds like the bickering between snow skiers and snowboarders in the early 80's. Snowboarders were banned at most large resorts. It wasn't intil the mid to late 80's that the larger resorts allowed snowboarders. Have you noticed the ratio of snowboarders to snow skiers today. Just food for thought.

Hoosier Bob
03-06-2006, 11:48 PM
I believe that charge was passed on to us! That's right Leroy! I am buying a tower! Not to wake but to irritate! I am gonna mount a couple of Altec Voice of the Theatre 1970 speakers on mine and tell them what I think! Maybe a converter and a couple of Phase Linear amps as well! We old timers rock! Just wait til they hear Led Zepplin Fool in the Rain when I come by! Oh Yeah, Totally Jacked! :D Any one know how to mount a turntable on an MC?HB you are up! That brings it home and pisses me off that people buy those houses on a public lake (the size of a bath tub) and then want to make it private for themselves restricting everyone elses use......most of the people I know of living around there complain of the people out there at 6AM running their ski boat back and forth...guess that would be us!:D

Who paid the big dollars years ago to put the lake in?

Leroy
03-07-2006, 12:00 AM
I knew it! You are going to the dark side Bob! Admit it!

Come on dude let ramp it up and get some air!

I drove my son's car after the 1k watt amp and speakers and it will make your eyeballs shake, sure you could drive it with the turntable! 8p


I believe that charge was passed on to us! That's right Leroy! I am buying a tower! Not to wake but to irritate! I am gonna mount a couple of Altec Voice of the Theatre 1970 speakers on mine and tell them what I think! Maybe a converter and a couple of Phase Linear amps as well! We old timers rock! Just wait til they hear Led Zepplin Fool in the Rain when I come by! Oh Yeah, Totally Jacked! :D Any one know how to mount a turntable on an MC?

Hoosier Bob
03-07-2006, 12:06 AM
I am there, my friend! Offensive is my middle name!

Eagle
03-07-2006, 12:48 AM
Yea, but there are size restrictions on the boat (20') & time restrictions for how long you can run at speed (15 min.).
Is that new? I was on the backwater end of November in a SAN 210 all day. A SAN 210 is more than 20'.

AirJunky
03-07-2006, 01:11 AM
Nope. Old rules. I would guess you just got away with it that day.

rmc1
03-07-2006, 05:58 AM
Quick question how would you feel if I went out everytime someone went out to wakeboard and skied by and thru the wall of water close to their boats and constantly thru water into the boat? you would be mad as______ Realize what is happening and we can all get along. Just because I have a slalom ski and can throw a big wall of water dose not mean I have the right to not respect others and their rights

ajgressette
03-07-2006, 07:04 AM
It is such a shame folks can not learn to share the lake. For me, first light and last light are the best times to ski. Either everyone is still asleep or worn out at the end of the day.

jimmer2880
03-07-2006, 07:11 AM
Quick question how would you feel if I went out everytime someone went out to wakeboard and skied by and thru the wall of water close to their boats and constantly thru water into the boat? you would be mad as______ Realize what is happening and we can all get along. Just because I have a slalom ski and can throw a big wall of water dose not mean I have the right to not respect others and their rights

That's right. I respect your wishes to throw huge wakes and listen to your music. But - the river is big. Please don't do that 10' off of my dock (yes, 10' happens more often than I care to count). Please, go into the middle of the river (100' farther) and do it. That's called respect.

Also - when I'm not pulling a skier, even if I"m on full plane, if I see anyone skiing of some sort (boarders are in this category), I will stop & wait for them to pass before continuing. Just about all the boarders & skiers recognize this simple rule of respect & do the same for us.

Now, if only I can get the remaining folks to come off of plane before circling around for their fallen skier/boarder (unless, of course, there is a reason to do so quickly, like another boat too close, or an injured skier/boarder).

I will also say, that I have more problems with the beer-belly dunk sitting on the gunnel plowing his I/O at 9 mph 10 feet off my dock than I do wakeboard boats. Odd, but I almost never see a DD SKI boat do that.

MMC280
03-07-2006, 08:21 AM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It sounds to me like MC should be the one to get involved on this one. I would suggest you contact them. With a market share like they have and a large percentage of that being wakeboard boats they can't afford not to get involved. After reading all of your postings it is great to see that wake boarding has brought so many new people to the water. Unfortunately they are not experienced enough to know that the wakes can cause damage and eventually ruin our sport on some lakes. Listen to me, this is my first post, my first MC even my first ski boat which has not been in the water yet. Can't wait to try wake boarding!

stevo137
03-07-2006, 08:53 AM
I wanted to add one more thought in response to the comments regarding IO's and such. There is no doubt that the IO's that cruise around and tube also throw huge wakes but in general by the time they are all on the water it is too late for skiing anyway.
It used to be ok on weekends up until about 9:00 am and I used to enjoy weekdays such as Monday-Wednesday evenings but not anymore. The boarders and jetskis are increasing in numbers no matter what time or day and many of them live on the lake.
It is to the point where I can't even think about having guests out for some skiing. All I ask for is 20-30 minutes of decent water so that I can do a few sets and I'm happy.
I'm sure that conditions vary from lake to lake but as far as this one goes it's only 800 acres and as I mentioned, they just finished building 40 more condos with slips and I can't imagine the lake conditions this season.
I have come to terms with the fact that this is just how it is and there is nothing that I can do about it. You folks that have access to more lakes or have a peaceful lake to enjoy are very fortunate.
Right now I am considering if it is worth having a boat that is mainly used for cruising around at 10-20 MPH or going out and drift while we swim. I still do enjoy anchoring in front of the cottage with a floatie chair tied to the platform and drinking heavily. One other thing that is still quite fun is going for an icecream and stopping by the public launch at the end of the day to watch people pull their boats out. Amazing the things that you see there, very entertaining!
I guess I'm just old school and remember the days when all you saw at sunset were skilled slalom skiers throwing up tails that you could see clear across the lake. Times do change and as Leroy mentioned, boarding has been very good for the boat industry and I would rather see families and kids out there enjoying time on the water than getting in trouble doing something else. For now, let's just try to have respect for each other out there and practice common sense.
BTW, I don't agree with banning wake boats. As mentioned, IO's are just as heavy if not heavier and you would need to ban those also. You can't just single out one and not the other.

tommcat
03-07-2006, 09:00 AM
i dont see the need to ban any type of boat, wake device or activity. MA law already states it's illegal to "create a wake that causes damage, injury or excessive rocking to other vessels, rafts, floats or docks"
that seems to be more than enough to let an officer eliminate a problematic boarder, tuber or anyone else who doesnt have the common sense or respect for others that most would think needed to operate a boat.
eliminate the problem, not everyone else.

Hoff1
03-07-2006, 09:15 AM
Reminds me of certain ski mountains banning snowboarding because it was disruptive to skiers. Neither sport is condusive to the other.

On my lake, we ski and board. The cruisers are much more of a problem. When you have flat water (which is needed for both sports), people if 40 foot cruisers or 40 foot power boats come through and circle you until there's no point. Being a large lake, it is somewhat different though.

Hard to imagine they can ban a boat based off of name/function instead of actual results. I submarined my boat because of a 40 foot Searay that was travelling 15 mph. They throw much larger swells than the wakeboard boats on a consistent basis.

Leroy
03-07-2006, 09:41 AM
We need more lakes!

stevo137
03-07-2006, 09:54 AM
We need more lakes!
Have any ideas as to how we would go about ordering up a nice new lake Leroy?

Jimmy O
03-07-2006, 10:20 AM
I think all boats in general can create a huge wake depending on how they are used. Wakeboard boats obviously more. I guess it's a common courtesy thing, if it looks like you're causing a problem with others, get out of there. Most serious slalom skiers will do their skiing in the early am: before anyone else is on the lake and the water is like glass. It's rare if we ever see someone wakeboarding before 9:00 or 10:00 am:. If you have to fight crowds of boats, whats the point.

tommcat
03-07-2006, 10:31 AM
I dont see how they could even determine what constitutes a "wakeboard boat"
take mine for example, 97 205 is a pure ski boat right? well change the stickers and add a ballast system and now it's an X-star. so what is my boat???

hacker
03-07-2006, 10:44 AM
I dont see how they could even determine what constitutes a "wakeboard boat"
take mine for example, 97 205 is a pure ski boat right? well change the stickers and add a ballast system and now it's an X-star. so what is my boat???

I may be wrong, but I was always under the impression that you (boat driver) are responsible for your wake (and any damage it may cause). Would be hard to prove though.

Leroy
03-07-2006, 10:45 AM
Stevo; Army Corp of Engineers do a pretty good job, but not sure how to "turn them on"!

Maybe....tell a mayor of a city with 20,000 acres where the farm land around the city is worth $1000/acre if you make a 5000 acre lake then the property will be worth avg $30,000/acre and you will collect about 20x more in property taxes?

Andyg
03-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Stevo; Army Corp of Engineers do a pretty good job, but not sure how to "turn them on"!Maybe....tell a mayor of a city with 20,000 acres where the farm land around the city is worth $1000/acre if you make a 5000 acre lake then the property will be worth avg $30,000/acre and you will collect about 20x more in property taxes?

Good luck getting that past the environmentalists.

NORTHERN LIGHTS
03-07-2006, 10:53 AM
fight-fight-fight
wakeboard, ski whatever--
one regulation leads to another. Are there problems-Yes
banning a certain type of boat--not the path any of use wants to go down

teamstreng
03-07-2006, 11:15 AM
I never expected this post to take off like this. Thanks for the support.

The river is Griggs Resevoir and within the city limits of Columbus. The city code does not allow jet skis/waverunners, tubes or boats longer than 22 foot.

As an update, here is what has occurred. I called the author of notice and there is a waterway advisory committee (WAC). This meeting's agenda is in part for the WAC to learn about wakeboarding. He stated that they have received complaints from 1) private dock owners voicing concerns of additional stress on their docks from larger wakes; and 2) small boats directed at wakeboard boat wakes. He related two instances of fisherman complaints where fishing boats were near the shore fishing and allegedly thrown 15 feet into shore. (Hard to believe I know.) Surprisingly, he did not indicate that the crew boats were involved. There seems to be discord between the crew teams and the power boats.

The concern of WAC seems to be 1) are the wakes that big and dangerous (in which case new regulation may be considered), or 2) did the power boat violate the 100 ft. from shore requirement (in which case stronger enforcement may be necessary).

For others facing similar issues I recommend several resources:

1) The applicable Federal, State or City Code sections governing your local waterway.

2) The USA Water Ski Association Waterways Education Manual. The web site is usawaterski.org but I got to it through http://www.severnskiclub.org/speedzone/USAWSmanual.pdf see page 145ish. It is a 240 page document discussing issues "to preserve, protect, and develop waterways access for all water sports in the United States." It covers issues of dealing with government, media and maybe most importantly a Shore Erosion Study that discusses wake size and strength. This study regarding wake size essentially provided:

The study, carried out by the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, attempts to answer three basic questions.

1) How do boat wakes compare with normal wind generated waves as a source of energy for erosion and transport of shoreline sediments? ANSWER: all but one site experienced no increase in erosion levels that could be attributed to boating.

2) How do rates of erosion during the boating season compare to other times of the year? ANSWER: With the exception of one area no significant differences were noted between seasons.

3) Can different types of boating patterns change the level of energy in boat wakes and to what degree? ANSWER: Yes. For instance, boats traveling at what we generally perceive as trick speeds will generate more wave energy than boats traveling at slalom, jump, or barefoot speeds. The recommendation here is to take these factors into consideration when choosing a ski site. If you follow the general 300-foot rule you should experience no problems even at trick speeds.

An additional study was performed by the Department of Conservation of the state of Illinois. Their final statement in summary was: “We cannot attribute any appreciable shoreline erosion to the wakes of passing watercraft. Wind and other acts of nature basically are at fault in instances of bank erosion.”


3) Other studies that support the SAWS study and provide the similar information on wake size:

http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~chinwu/CEE514_Coastal_Engineering/2001_Students_Web/Eric_Riedner/Eric_Riedner.htm

http://www.boatwashington.org/watching_your_wake.htm this site states: "Does the size of a wake matter? Hydrologists estimate that a wake 5 inches high produces limited damage to the shoreline. A 10-inch wake is 5 times more destructive, and a 25-inch wake is 30 times more destructive than a 5-inch wake. On plane, runabouts and larger fishing boats may create a 10-inch wake, while craft with displacement hulls (like houseboats or cruisers) can create wakes of 25 inches or higher."

The point of the studies, from my perspective, is that these studies were for oriented toward erosion of shore where wakes were pounding on the shore, a hard stationary surface and no significant findings were made by boat wakes up to 5 inches and being away from the shore by 100 feet (as already in the city code) lessens this even more. A wake on a floating boat or dock just causes the boat and/or dock to go up and down. I believe the argument can be made that if there is little or no impact on the shore then there is even less impact on floating objects like a dock or boat.

These studies raise a question in my mind as to the average height of a wakeboarding boat loaded. Do the manufacturers have this data?

I believe if wakeboarding boats or wake enhancement devices are banned, we are on a slippery slope to all boats that produce a wake being banned. Any other experience with this, suggestions, or new point or counterpoint on this subject?

3event
03-07-2006, 12:08 PM
Perhaps if we had an expert or someone just well informed collect all the data on wake damage and create a boater-friendly summary. It should include a description of the various types of boats, and describe how a good sized IO can easily make/exceed the wake of a weighted boarding boat. Something that any old Joe could follow - a propaganda piece really. Heck, maybe even some video - visual aids. If I grabbed some video of the 22' deckboat at half plane cruising by our place, that would go a long way.

Maybe some of you are on smaller lakes like we are - we have a lake property owners association that meets occasionally and might be the forum where we would have to defend our rights first. From there it would go ... I am not sure ... maybe the WI DNR.

One thing is for sure, bad/inconsiderate/not so careful behavior by a few could spell big trouble for the rest of us.

Rockman
03-07-2006, 01:22 PM
whats also ridiculoas is that lots of people think that they need a huge wake to wakeboard when they suck so bad that it would even matter.

AMEN! :headbang:

Hoff1
03-07-2006, 01:24 PM
sounds like you need a Johnny Cochran defense.... if the wake doesn't fit...

mitch
03-07-2006, 01:30 PM
It is such a shame folks can not learn to share the lake. For me, first light and last light are the best times to ski. Either everyone is still asleep or worn out at the end of the day.

Getting tough to get the flat water at sunset. Other than early we've found one of the best times is immed. after a lake clearing thunderstorm. As soon as it's winding down we're one of the 1st back out, sometimes even pushing the safety envelope a bit:D

mitch
03-07-2006, 02:01 PM
we cannot use permanant build to fit docks. ours are metal frames, that wood segments sit down into, they're 1.5 feet off the water. it takes quite the wave action to move them.

I hear ya, ours have to be removable too. Check my profile pic. I can have the whole thing out in an hour

BIGBADBLUE
03-07-2006, 02:07 PM
It is getting tougher and tougher to fine good water, however, banning even the hated jet ski is the wrong course of action. We really do need to learn to share our lakes, educate people on proper etiquette and come down hard on the idiots that give our sport a bad name. I have no idea on how to do this but there is no way I am taking up golf as a summer activity.

woody
03-07-2006, 02:08 PM
Same old ski vs. board issue thats been going on in the mountains for years - brought on by a few inconsiderate souls both sides of the fence..... a look at the future is Lake Windermere here in the UK... I think they have a six mph speed limit, no skiing/boarding/jets skiing nothing. If the few twits out there were "educated" the rest of us could rest easy that they won't take the lakes away.

mitch
03-07-2006, 02:16 PM
No offense taken :D

I have also said before that the best river I skied on was the Scioto in Columbus Ohio. When I was there, evidently not now. there was a tow only zone, an idle only zone and a chaos zone. Maybe waterways can be divided so all can get along. By far the worst wakes I have hit during socalled ski time were put up behind wake boats. No offense to Mitch but the guy he is describing is rarely out at 5,6,7,8 or even 9 am. I go out at 5:30 and one pass of the WMD (Wake of Mass Destruction) can kill the water more so if there are sea walls. No offense again but lets face it! These boats are in your face space invaders! (I love these boats) They are loud, speakers blaring at 5:am for the skier? The entire design is seen by an outsider as offensive! Blaring speakers, huge wakes and extreme paintschemes. The old fogies that control yours and my waterways will target the most offensive every time. We need to work together as watersports enthusiasts to make sure this does not happen. We can't take sides when we need to work on making the waterways as user (all users even tubers) friendly as possible. Worry about the drunks (yes I Hoosier said that!) and the wreckless. ;)

PendO
03-07-2006, 02:16 PM
Getting tough to get the flat water at sunset. Other than early we've found one of the best times is immed. after a lake clearing thunderstorm. As soon as it's winding down we're one of the 1st back out, sometimes even pushing the safety envelope a bit:D


Could not agree more ... I love it when a thunderstorm saturday afternoon sends the campers home ... the glass is soooo smooth after a rainstorm/thunderstorm.

AirJunky
03-07-2006, 02:23 PM
Getting tough to get the flat water at sunset. Other than early we've found one of the best times is immed. after a lake clearing thunderstorm. As soon as it's winding down we're one of the 1st back out, sometimes even pushing the safety envelope a bit:D
Hehe, too funny. Living in Seattle we have found for years that the best way to avoid the crappy conditions was to stay off the lake when the weather was nice. If it's raining, cold, a little cool or even just cloudy, the lake glasses up nice & we'd get tons of water time.
Now living in eastern WA., the weather doesn't go to he11 nearly as often so the lakes will pack up & stay that way thru the summer. Guess we'll have to get our fill in now till June. :friday:

Hoff1
03-07-2006, 02:27 PM
I've found nice water in a light to medium drizzle as long as there’s no thunder. No one’s on the lake, but the water is still decent. Also, for boarding the water surface tension is disrupted which makes for less painful falls. You’re going to get wet anyway.

André
03-07-2006, 08:34 PM
Have any ideas as to how we would go about ordering up a nice new lake Leroy?
www.gouldengineering.com
www.feasbylakes.com
;)

78skier
03-07-2006, 09:02 PM
Our local government may be trying to ban wakeboarding boats on our local boarding/sking hotspot. One of the anticipated arguments is boat wake size and it's effects on other boats and the shoreline. My questions are:1) Has anyone else gone through this battle? 2) What were the results? and 3) Does anyone have information or studies performed of the effects of boat wakes on errosion?

Thanks.
I hate the Government of any kind Its all a scam their just a bunch of comunist this one is do to some stupid tree huging envirmentalist. next they will want to band anything with a prop it might kill a fish. well thay can kiss my ***.
I hope the best for everyone that might run into this BS

Bobby
03-07-2006, 11:47 PM
I'm just glad that my part of lake Eufaula is in a very unpopulated area and there are about 9-10 ski/boarding boats total on a crowded weekend, like 4th of july :banana:

Leroy
03-08-2006, 12:01 AM
The other thing to point out is what happens do to the water edge. Most lakes naturally have shore protection, and as they are developed the protection is often removed.

ecelis
03-08-2006, 08:55 PM
I used to live on a public lake in Texas before I moved to Florida.
I sat on my dock many a Sunday afternoon enjoying the chaos. Cruisers were by far the biggest wake producers. By far. Sure a loaded down wakeboard boat produces a bigger wake then a slalom boat at speed, but at 24mph, the wake is not that bad. The cruisers otoh often 'plow' and those would often send the wakes over the dock.

When talking to the neighbors though, it was always; "the 'dang' wakeboard boats with their big wakes damaged my retaining wall", or "my boat got knocked off the dock by these wakeboard boats"...

It is just the name: "wake"board boat. I think that is what is getting the bad rep.

As far as damage to the dock or retaining wall. We had to live with it and prepare for it. Again most boats were cruisers, pontoons, jetskis, fishing boats and an occasional wakeboard boat. All the neighbors were convinced though that they had to be prepared for the wakeboard boats. Bad rep, focus shifted and an easy target was found.

Last thing I heard is that they now have a speed limit on the river end of the lake, because of complaints from the waterfront owners about jet-skis and wakeboard-boats. So these complaints have now banned watersports of the best part of the lake; for everyone, including slalom.

jimmer2880
03-09-2006, 05:49 AM
I used to live on a public lake in Texas before I moved to Florida.
I sat on my dock many a Sunday afternoon enjoying the chaos. Cruisers were by far the biggest wake producers. By far. Sure a loaded down wakeboard boat produces a bigger wake then a slalom boat at speed, but at 24mph, the wake is not that bad. The cruisers otoh often 'plow' and those would often send the wakes over the dock.

When talking to the neighbors though, it was always; "the 'dang' wakeboard boats with their big wakes damaged my retaining wall", or "my boat got knocked off the dock by these wakeboard boats"...

It is just the name: "wake"board boat. I think that is what is getting the bad rep.

As far as damage to the dock or retaining wall. We had to live with it and prepare for it. Again most boats were cruisers, pontoons, jetskis, fishing boats and an occasional wakeboard boat. All the neighbors were convinced though that they had to be prepared for the wakeboard boats. Bad rep, focus shifted and an easy target was found.

Last thing I heard is that they now have a speed limit on the river end of the lake, because of complaints from the waterfront owners about jet-skis and wakeboard-boats. So these complaints have now banned watersports of the best part of the lake; for everyone, including slalom.

That is what scares me the most. It would be impossible to ban all boats going 9-18 mph, but allow them 0-9 and 18-45.

Davo
04-04-2006, 05:35 PM
I wish the people who b1tch about their shorelines would realize that if they would leave some of the natural vegitation it would be protection enough. Some folks have to build a seawall and clear all the weeds so they can have a perfect little beach when they should just leave a buffer between it and the water. The buffer will also help filter all the polutants that enter the lake when their, more often than not, careless, landscaper sprays chemicals.

richardsoncd
04-05-2006, 09:04 AM
I wish the people who b1tch about their shorelines would realize that if they would leave some of the natural vegitation it would be protection enough. Some folks have to build a seawall and clear all the weeds so they can have a perfect little beach when they should just leave a buffer between it and the water. The buffer will also help filter all the polutants that enter the lake when their, more often than not, careless, landscaper sprays chemicals.

Smartest reply yet (Davo, not mine).....

How big are these lakes that are banning wakeboard boats. The only problems we really have with wakeboard boats on the lakes I ski are that they are being driven by spoiled high school kids whose daddies thought it would be a good idea to give there kid a toy with a V8 and 12" subs. I love to ski...like to wakeboard, we use the same courtesy pulling both, I don't think banning boats is ever the best choice, maybe being a bit more strict about existing rules or the local DNR can put down there outdoors magazine, spit out there dip and use there heads to figure out some new policies, banning and censorship are results of laziness of the mind or lack there of.

But for the record I have a S&S with a removeable back seat, I think I actually make the water smoother when I pull through...it may be the ski making the wake :D

Davo
04-06-2006, 12:16 PM
I don't think banning boats is ever the best choice, maybe being a bit more strict about existing rules or the local DNR can put down there outdoors magazine, spit out there dip and use there heads to figure out some new policies, banning and censorship are results of laziness of the mind or lack there of.

I'm not sure how big the Ohio lake is, but on the whole I think it's the smaller lakes where it's more of an issue. The bigger lakes usually have bigger craft so you'd have to restrict based on length to resolve any wake issues. IMO, restricting based on length makes the most sense on small lakes. Banning a certain type of boat is not the answer.

I hear what you're saying about the "high school kids". It seems as if there are always a few of those types on the lake. Parents should teach their kids how to operate safely and to be respectful...and that goes for any type of craft.

We have tons of small lakes here in Florida and many are dominated by wakeboats so I don't think (I hope) ballast restrictions or only banning wakeboats would be accepted by the public. Hopefully, if these restrictions are presented in your neck of the woods, people will speak up and show the powers that be that most wakeboat owners are responsible adults.

richardsoncd
04-06-2006, 02:44 PM
I wish the people who b1tch about their shorelines would realize that if they would leave some of the natural vegitation it would be protection enough. Some folks have to build a seawall and clear all the weeds so they can have a perfect little beach when they should just leave a buffer between it and the water. The buffer will also help filter all the polutants that enter the lake when their, more often than not, careless, landscaper sprays chemicals.

Are you in the development business? It sounds like the type of common sense land development issues that only those in the business have. I do land planning and development consultation up here. If boats start getting banned, maybe I can move it down to Florida. I've always liked the sunshine state.

Granite_33
04-06-2006, 03:06 PM
I am not going to say anything new here. Just gonna pile on. Runabouts and wakeboard boats can generate the same size wakes depending on the speed they are going, so for the Nazis in Columbus to target one boat is bogus. I would challenge that with requiring a scientific study before a decision is made.

There is a father / son-in-law combo that both have 25'+ cuddies. They trailer them in, run em all day, create a washing machine for the day......then leave. Most weekends like clockwork, they show up. My X-9 has absolutely nothing on those two floating beasts.

My experience tells me that there usually are only a vocal uninformed few who will complain very loudly. And many times, those few are the ones who will continue to complain, and run it up the flag pole to people who will pull the strings for the good of "insert lame cause here" ie the old bags who campaign for "no wake hours" for the good of other boaters.......and the children (can't forget to pull a heartstring)

Too, Too many uninformed people buy a place on a lake, envisioning a quiet retreat, someplace to sit and read a book and maybe a pontoon to put their fat arses into and putt around. Soon they think they own the lake itself, and thats when the complaining begins........

Like all bureaucratic / political moves........targeting one type of boat for removal will only serve to peel back the onion of truth and reveal that OMG!!! the runabouts are making big wakes too!!!

I would love to see the definition of "wakeboard boat" according to these people.

Banning jetskis is one thing. Banning a boat because it has a tower and throws a wake is altogether different.

Davo
04-06-2006, 05:01 PM
Are you in the development business? It sounds like the type of common sense land development issues that only those in the business have. I do land planning and development consultation up here. If boats start getting banned, maybe I can move it down to Florida. I've always liked the sunshine state.

I'm the CFO for a Contractor. Any knowledge I have stems from being around lakes my whole life and from just having environmental awareness. I've seen enough to realize that most people don't have a clue about lake management or just don't care.

I went to a lake water quality meeting at city hall recently. It was pretty good except not that many people showed up (we have like 50 lakes in our city). Most of the people who did come wanted to b1tch to the city about flooding concerns and could care less about lake water quality.

Most of the info was common sense stuff, but one speaker was a scientist for the University of Florida and had lived in the area for 26 years so he was sharp. He talked about a lot of different drainage issues...one of which was about how puting in a sand beach was a no-no because the sand gets washed into the lake etc. Later on, someone who lives on the same lake as the mayor pointed out that he had just put in a sand beach...too bad he didn't make the meeting. :rolleyes:

Davo
04-06-2006, 05:21 PM
Too, Too many uninformed people buy a place on a lake, envisioning a quiet retreat, someplace to sit and read a book and maybe a pontoon to put their fat arses into and putt around. Soon they think they own the lake itself, and thats when the complaining begins.......

I'll back that up...the two loudest complainers about boat traffic on my lake rarely even use the lake. Occasionaly, they "putt around" just like you said. I think it may also be just a status symbol for some people. One of those two complainers finally realized that he can't control everything that goes on with the lake, including mother nature, and sold his house.

The other guy puts up a "no wake" sign on his crappy floating dock when the water is at a perfectly safe level and the public ramp is still open. Whatever. Your precious shoreline hasn't changed in years and you'll probably be six feet under if and when it does.

skeeler
04-07-2006, 08:53 AM
I am not going to say anything new here. Just gonna pile on. Runabouts and wakeboard boats can generate the same size wakes depending on the speed they are going, so for the Nazis in Columbus to target one boat is bogus. I would challenge that with requiring a scientific study before a decision is made.

There is a father / son-in-law combo that both have 25'+ cuddies. They trailer them in, run em all day, create a washing machine for the day......then leave. Most weekends like clockwork, they show up. My X-9 has absolutely nothing on those two floating beasts.

My experience tells me that there usually are only a vocal uninformed few who will complain very loudly. And many times, those few are the ones who will continue to complain, and run it up the flag pole to people who will pull the strings for the good of "insert lame cause here" ie the old bags who campaign for "no wake hours" for the good of other boaters.......and the children (can't forget to pull a heartstring)

Too, Too many uninformed people buy a place on a lake, envisioning a quiet retreat, someplace to sit and read a book and maybe a pontoon to put their fat arses into and putt around. Soon they think they own the lake itself, and thats when the complaining begins........

Like all bureaucratic / political moves........targeting one type of boat for removal will only serve to peel back the onion of truth and reveal that OMG!!! the runabouts are making big wakes too!!!

I would love to see the definition of "wakeboard boat" according to these people.

Banning jetskis is one thing. Banning a boat because it has a tower and throws a wake is altogether different.
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I went through a similar situation on the lake I live on at the beginning of last year. We had about a handful of lake home owners that wanted to ban the use of wakeboard boats on the lake due to shore erosion and the size of the wakes.
After a few months of complaining the lake board put together a task force to come to a resolution to present to the board some options. Luckily enough, I was nominated to the task force so I was able to put my two cents in.
First and foremost, I am a wakeboarder. I have only skied about five times, and I think I was about 12 years old. I have nothing against them at all, and we can live in perfect harmony. So you can probably guess where I stood on the issue.

One thing I brought to the table in the presentation I made to the board was, “What is a wakeboard boat?”. I literally asked that question, and there response was, “A boat with a tower, loud speakers, and a ballast system.”. This was the answer I was looking for. My response was to show them, for example, Mastercraft’s line up of boats that come out of the same molds, but have different options that can be added, or are equipped different for their line-up (X-Series). I proved this by walking down to the water and showing my 04’ X-2 and another person’s lake safe “family ride” 205V. Dead silence from all. For my next point I showed them video of my boat’s wake fully loaded at 22 mph. Then I showed video of their own “Lake Patrol Boat” (21’ Crownline”) 25’ off shore going about 9mph sending 1 ½ foot rollers into all of the homeowners docks. Again dead silence.

I tried to promote how people are using their boats is problem. If you have a boat loaded up and fling all over the lake on a weekend with other boaters than you are an idiot. Just like any other serious rider, I get up if it’s the weekend, load my boat up with my friends and go ride, and by 11:00am we are done riding for the day. Then, we hang out in a cove and take it all in. Just the same as a lot of you guys that ski. And for the serious skiers out on our lake, we keep our distance or take turns so ever one gets the butter. Again that’s my two cents!

Davo
04-07-2006, 11:50 AM
Nicely done, Skeeler. :headbang:

ski36short
04-07-2006, 12:56 PM
Nicely done, Skeeler. :headbang:

Agreed. Even as a skier I see the same arguments used against courses in our area. Like Skeeler said, it all comes down to how boats are used, not the particular boats in question. I hate to see wakeboard boat restrictions because it's only a matter of time before that same group starts expanding their complaints. The one thing I will disagree with are the morons running open exhaust Donzis on our small inland lakes, but that is illegal already, just not enforced. Still, I don't say much about it because I don't want to start down the slippery slope.

Check it, a skier giving the boarders some love! It must be Friday!

kdtechnologyinc
08-09-2006, 08:19 PM
We hit a wakeboard boat wake and I couldn't believe how bad it was. Knocked discs out of the changer cartridge and popped the mirror out of the rubber gasket. They also do tie up the best water for hours on end with boarders going for 30 plus minutes each and won't share water time.
Banning them is okay by me.
We bought a MC for the small wake and the irony of people wanting a large wake is not in the best interest of all who share the lakes.

bigmac
08-09-2006, 10:04 PM
We hit a wakeboard boat wake and I couldn't believe how bad it was. Knocked discs out of the changer cartridge and popped the mirror out of the rubber gasket. They also do tie up the best water for hours on end with boarders going for 30 plus minutes each and won't share water time.
Banning them is okay by me.
We bought a MC for the small wake and the irony of people wanting a large wake is not in the best interest of all who share the lakes.

My jaw is literally agape at this post http://forums.aswp.net/theme_aswp/smilies/smilies47.gif

DuaneS
08-09-2006, 10:32 PM
All I can say is there was tons of whinning going on on this thread. Just food for thought, I just learned that the county commission surrounding Lake Martin (huge lake) in Alabama just recently banned all boats 26 ft and larger and any boat that can go faster than 50 mph. Someone mentioned earlier this is the slippery slope we all fear. As a skier, boarder, footer, wakesurfer I say lets all realize that we enjoy a sport that has many disciplines and one doesn't have superiority over another.:)

billr
08-09-2006, 11:24 PM
It was an act by the legislature, not locally. If affects other lakes as well.

stevo137
08-10-2006, 01:01 AM
Agreed. The one thing I will disagree with are the morons running open exhaust Donzis on our small inland lakes, but that is illegal already
Damn pencil boats! (That's what my bro calls em' along with many other words that I cannot share).
He's on Lake Freeman here in IN and they have the same issues.

PendO
08-10-2006, 01:55 AM
We hit a wakeboard boat wake and I couldn't believe how bad it was. Knocked discs out of the changer cartridge and popped the mirror out of the rubber gasket. They also do tie up the best water for hours on end with boarders going for 30 plus minutes each and won't share water time.
Banning them is okay by me.
We bought a MC for the small wake and the irony of people wanting a large wake is not in the best interest of all who share the lakes.

It SERIOUSLY knocked discs out of the changer cartridge, how terrible ... (my side hurtz)

michael freeman
08-10-2006, 06:52 AM
Damn pencil boats! (That's what my bro calls em' along with many other words that I cannot share).
He's on Lake Freeman here in IN and they have the same issues.


Re Lake Freeman
Just tell them only MCs are allowed on my like. If they give him any trouble, assure them that those words come straight from Mr Freeman's mouth... ummm keyboard. :D

dog paw
08-10-2006, 08:39 AM
I only read to where X45 compared a X boat wake to the one on my S+S. Now that is funny..... But anyhow It was only a matter of time before it got to "us". I hope it gets attention I dont have the paitence or temper to deal on that level at all. All I can do is support a cooler head. The PWC world has been fighting the Bluewater nutjobs and others for years. The AWA and IJSBA has spent god knows how much money and time defending our right to ride. "They" use wake and erosion as a tool to fight PWC"s. (crock of crap) What kind of a cannon would that be used against a wakeboard boat!!! I myself as a slalom skier have no use for a wake on my boat or PWC This has become a bad problem on our lake also. Hell we have displacement hull boats with big azz anchors hanging off there bows pulling people, snapping dock lines in there paths. Get ready for a fight people.....

skeeler
08-10-2006, 08:39 AM
We hit a wakeboard boat wake and I couldn't believe how bad it was. Knocked discs out of the changer cartridge and popped the mirror out of the rubber gasket. They also do tie up the best water for hours on end with boarders going for 30 plus minutes each and won't share water time.
Banning them is okay by me.
We bought a MC for the small wake and the irony of people wanting a large wake is not in the best interest of all who share the lakes.
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I bought a MC for the large wake, and the irony of people wanting a small wake is not in the best interest of all my fellow riders. Sounds like you need to get up earlier in the morning, and hit the gym so you can last a little longer on the water. :D

3event
08-10-2006, 09:50 AM
We're ski/barefoot fans primarily but getting into boarding.

Most all of the angst about other lake users is a result of irresponsible boating. Could be a PWC, a wakeboat, or a slalom boat. Any of them, operated without regard to others, makes our time on the lake less enjoyable.

One thing that is becoming clear is that we should be careful what we wish for - our sport/boat/wake/speed/HP rating might be next! Live by example, and counsel your neighbors on driving technique if you can. Unless you can dig your own lake, you're going to have to live with it anyway and you might as well consider reducing your stress over it. I spent my whole life enjoying our cottage on a nice small lake which has grown pretty busy and I am now considering looking for an offsite secret spot so we can get really serious sports in, once in a while. More people, more boats. I can't stop it.

These efforts are already dragging some of us into lobbying and politicking - we are going to be a lot more effective if we can get TOGETHER on it.

My $0.02 - Free opinions are worth what you pay for them

Jesus_Freak
08-11-2006, 02:02 AM
Well said. Thanks. What about boating zones for specific sports on a given lake? Oh well, seems cheesy at best, but then how do you enforce it?

Ryan27r
08-11-2006, 03:45 AM
Do a Google search on lakes like Lake Oswego, OR or Canyon Lake, CA. Also Malibu is supposedly working on a special boat that disables the ballast system.

In a nutshell 1)yes, it's been done. 2.)After wakeboarders, it'll be skiers & jetskiers..... everyone but canoers. 3)Not specifically, but check out the themalibucrew.com for the boat mentioned above. There was data to back it up.
What you could just have the ballast on or off whats this disableing thing?

blackbeauty02
08-19-2006, 09:33 AM
screw that. not any worse than those 50 foot baja's and fountains that overcome my boat when we're out there wakeboarding. but i do have to agree with rod....some of those maggots don't even need the ballasts. that said i always have the rookies and girls go a few runs before we add 1000 lbs for the vets. funny b/c my girlfriend actually asked why i don't add the weight for her

Footin
08-19-2006, 10:00 AM
I do not think this ever went through in Columbus. I was on the river a few weeks ago and saw a few wakeboats.

6ballsisall
08-19-2006, 10:04 AM
We have a 20' length restriction on our lake which cancels out alot of wakeboard boats as is. In the last year they added a rule stating no ballast or wake enhancers can be used. I see some point in the deal, I personally don't live lakefront but have lots of friends that are on the lake. Even homes that are properly shored up with seawalls take a beating from the big waves and tear away at the surface line.

bigmac
08-19-2006, 10:53 AM
In Minnesota, all natural lakes are public water and regulated by the DNR. Local units of government can initiate requests for certain restrictions, such as horsepower, size, or type of boat, but the application process to get the DNR to go along is very cumbersome and it would be EXTREMELY rare that they would do anything that would restrict any type of water activity on a lake big enough to water ski on. The only conceivable circumstance would be if there were demonstrable environmental damage from a particular activity. They have addressed that with the usual 150-feet-from-shore rule and no wake zones in channels. Recently the DNR had a HUGE and very comprehensive revision to the state's Shoreland Development Rules, and boat size, wake, etc wasn't even addressed. Wake-generating boats and their effect on shorline erosion had been mentioned by their advisory committee, but the DNR rejected restrictions out-of-hand. Their response was a mandatory vegetation buffer zone at the shorline, or loosening restrictions on placement of rip-rap by private lakeshore owners. The only annoyance is their new restrictions of dock surface. If I add one more 10 foot section, I'm in violation.

Considering all the knuckleheads in the upper levels of the Minnesota DNR, I must say that I have always been appreciative of their basic concept throughout their history of non-restriction of lake use. I'm active in our lake association, and I can't conceive of that group even contemplating requesting any kind of lake use restriction, and even if they did, I can't conceive of the DNR going along with it on a lake this size. Furthermore, the government body that would have to request those restrictions from the DNR would be our County Board, and those yahoos can't even agree on what color the sky is.

Leroy
08-19-2006, 11:07 AM
Most of these lakes are public lakes. Public means the Donzi has just as much right as a 190 or X-star or even the jet ski. One thing missing is a little courtesy on the water, of course that is also true on the road, how is your morning commute? I too would love to have the lake to myself at prime time, anytime, but doesn't happen too often. I'm for a basic layer of rules on the water, similar to driving a car.
Mandatory boat license
Speed limits
Drinking while boating... same as in car.
Establish use areas (this will take some work to get right)
Boating course including common rules of the water.

Example of use area. I would also like to see break walls with drive through channel on one side and skiers on the other always going in one direction. Make sense? I think a few user specific areas would give everyone something good.

bepresto
08-19-2006, 11:11 AM
my 2 cents, we were down at table rock lake last week. we set up a slalom course in the back of a cove so it would be out of the way and also so the wind would not be a factor. we have been setting it up there for about 5 years now, and actually the marina that is close by is now going to be getting a permit for a permanent course in the same location. down this cove are a bunch of enthusiasts that like to ski the course. If anyone besides us come down to this area, they usually go back a little farther just to raft up and relax and watch, which is fine. But this last time we were down there was this want-to-be wakeboard boat, it was a new I/O Century decked out with all the wakeboard stuff. This guy was the definition of wally. they would come down the cove and go just past our course and then turn around just past the gates and send a huge roller down the course. I forgot to mention that we had a skier in the course and very visible to. this incident made me so mad, but there was not much i could do being a public lake. we asked them to turn around a little shorter of the course but that only inticed them to go farther. I thought this was very inconsiderate considering that table rock is a very big and nice lake.

Farmer Ted
08-19-2006, 12:05 PM
my 2 cents, we were down at table rock lake last week. we set up a slalom course in the back of a cove so it would be out of the way and also so the wind would not be a factor. we have been setting it up there for about 5 years now, and actually the marina that is close by is now going to be getting a permit for a permanent course in the same location. down this cove are a bunch of enthusiasts that like to ski the course. If anyone besides us come down to this area, they usually go back a little farther just to raft up and relax and watch, which is fine. But this last time we were down there was this want-to-be wakeboard boat, it was a new I/O Century decked out with all the wakeboard stuff. This guy was the definition of wally. they would come down the cove and go just past our course and then turn around just past the gates and send a huge roller down the course. I forgot to mention that we had a skier in the course and very visible to. this incident made me so mad, but there was not much i could do being a public lake. we asked them to turn around a little shorter of the course but that only inticed them to go farther. I thought this was very inconsiderate considering that table rock is a very big and nice lake.


If it's a Corps lake and the course is permitted, you control that peice of the lake, at least that's what they told us when we permitted our course at Lake Greeson.

The ranger said that if anyone was not using the course the way it was intended we should call the Ranger and they will come take care of it.

Our problem was jet-skis that would come into the course from the east end when the boat/skier were coming into the course from the west.

Best thing the Marina can do is get it permitted and designated a "NO WAKE ZONE" there is a permanent course installed at Lake Greeson and the NO WAKE ZONE starts about 50 yards infront of the course.

bepresto
08-19-2006, 12:21 PM
thank you for the advice. I will pass this along the the marina, and have them speak with the water patrol and also the corps and see if this will be a possibility.

thanks alot Farmer

Farmer Ted
08-19-2006, 12:35 PM
thank you for the advice. I will pass this along the the marina, and have them speak with the water patrol and also the corps and see if this will be a possibility.

thanks alot Farmer


no problem!

where on Table Rock is this Marina/Cove?

If it's releasable to the public.....

bepresto
08-19-2006, 02:18 PM
off the main channel, go south of baxter marina and head down to the left, which is little indian. then follow that channel all the way to the south and east till it gets narrow. I will try and post a picture

bepresto
08-19-2006, 02:33 PM
to the south of the course, it is not very wide and there are a lot of stumps and logs in the area. there is a kayak camp at the tip of the channel to the south. the major problem is with the folks just coming down to see what all the colored balls or bouys are. but there are no docks or boat ramps any farther south. and the cliffs make for a great wind break in this area.

chasmo
08-20-2006, 01:55 PM
"They send multidirectional wakes due to the fact that it seems like most of the boarders aren't very good and they fall quite frequently and the drivers circle around to pick them without slowing down very much."

Amen to that....

suedv
08-21-2006, 09:56 PM
I haven’t read every post on this thread so excuse me if I say something that has already been said.

I work for a conservation organization doing environmental real estate work and conservation planning (and no I don’t hug tress and yes I do like boats with motors, especially our MasterCraft). Actually, I spend a fair amount of time on watershed planning (for more than single lakes or lake associations) with various people including those from townships, cities, the DNR, the DEQ, local extension offices, conservation districts, developers, and local citizens.

While everyone there has their own needs and agendas I’ve found that when we respectfully listen to each other we can find solutions that adequately meet everyone’s needs. I would suggest looking to see if there is a planning group for your watershed. Citizen input is important and an understanding of your needs and desires helps the “canoe only people” see that there are good respectable people out there that use boats with motors. Good relationships lead to better results for all.

jetlife
08-21-2006, 10:49 PM
Just look up the weight of some of the typical runabouts. We have a 3000lb restriction on ski boats, but nothing on all others. The max boat size is 20ft and they allow a cobalt on the lake. That think tips the scales at 3800lbs empty. Combine that with the DEEP V hull and I can not even use my new 197 on the weekends.

jetlife
08-21-2006, 11:12 PM
Just look up the weight of some of the typical runabouts. We have a 3000lb restriction on ski boats, but nothing on all others. The max boat size is 20ft and they allow a cobalt on the lake. That think tips the scales at 3800lbs empty. Combine that with the DEEP V hull and I can not even use my new 197 on the weekends.

jetlife
08-21-2006, 11:12 PM
Just look up the weight of some of the typical runabouts. We have a 3000lb restriction on ski boats, but nothing on all others. The max boat size is 20ft and they allow a cobalt on the lake. That think tips the scales at 3800lbs empty. Combine that with the DEEP V hull and I can not even use my new 197 on the weekends.

PendO
08-21-2006, 11:15 PM
Drinking while boating... same as in car.

Use a straw, less spillage!

Leroy
08-21-2006, 11:23 PM
Really, I want to be back in college again!!!!

Use a straw, less spillage!

88 PS190
08-22-2006, 11:45 AM
we've had a few times this summer where we were skiing someone and i had to stop the boat, the wakes we were coming up on would have come right over us.

kjohnson
08-23-2006, 07:24 AM
The wakes that these boats put out is ridiculous. It is ruining the sport of waterskiing. They hog the lake all day and don't care what the wake does to other boats etc. I say hang em and hang em high.

P-hat_in_Cincy
08-23-2006, 08:23 AM
The wakes that these boats put out is ridiculous. It is ruining the sport of waterskiing. They hog the lake all day and don't care what the wake does to other boats etc. I say hang em and hang em high.

That's a pretty broad comment that is insulting to some of us. But, hey...to each their own.

FWIW...I have had a boat of slalom skiers pull up and thank me for slowing/stopping when I recognized they were getting ready for a glassy run.

MinnX-10
08-23-2006, 08:26 AM
The wakes that these boats put out is ridiculous. It is ruining the sport of waterskiing. They hog the lake all day and don't care what the wake does to other boats etc. I say hang em and hang em high.
I would feel fairly safe to assume that those of us on this board,that own wakeboard boats and wakeboard regularly are not those "ruining the sport of waterskiing"

limegreen
08-23-2006, 08:40 AM
No problems like that here yet.:D I try to do my part by minimizing our wake. I never load ballast unless the rider is advanced. Also, when the rider falls, I immediately slow to idle - let the wake die and then putt putt back to him at no wake speed. It gives him a minute to rest and plus it is more comfortable for the rider to not get swamped when you pull around to pick him up. I see an Air Nautique on our lake do the same. When I am in the water, I hate it when the drive comes back to me at speed and creates all those multidirectional waves. Annoying.:cool:










I going to give you my honest opinion. I have nothing against wakeboarding but it has gotten to the point on our lake that I have thought about getting out of the sport altogether.
The only time that you can ski is very early am and that's it. The lake is getting so crowded with wake boats and jetskis that it is actually getting dangerous. The wakes are huge and they tend to monopolize the best water on the lake for long periods of time. If you have never been in a ski boat and hit a wakeboard boat wake, I suggest that you try it sometime and then you will understand.
They send multidirectional wakes due to the fact that it seems like most of the boarders aren't very good and they fall quite frequently and the drivers circle around to pick them without slowing down very much.
And now they are building 40 new condos with slips which will magnify the problem. We aren't fortunate enough to have another lake that is very close and I'm not interested in trailering every time that I want to use my boat.
I think that in general, boarders and skiers don't totally understand each others sport and I'm not sure that most of the boarders that I see out there even need a wake of that size.
My optimism that we can all coexist on the same lake and enjoy our sport is fading quickly.

kazzapped
09-05-2006, 11:57 AM
Any decent wakeboarders who owns a x series mastercraft or any high end wakeboard boat who respects it and leaves it parked on a lake should understand how deadly a wake can be... especially their own. On my lake its the crazy tubers who stay in the small bays that consistently cut you off, and the once in a while wakeboarders/kneeboarders/ ect. who go right along the shore that are the problem. Even some of the people who are just cruising with the deep v hull boats along the shore are way more of an issue than the regular wakeboarders. Being on a small lake which is almost like being in a small community where everyone talks, having my x15 which possibly gives off the biggest wake on my lake you have to show some respect to people on the shore. This should go for people on big lakes as well even if you don’t care about what they think of you. Show some common sense people!

Aswell as skiers, wakeboarders also want calm water ... maybe not nearly to the same extent but as a wakeboarder you don't want to be running into wakes constantly. I don’t know how a lot of you are thinking wakeboarders are the worse with their wakes when you have tubers going around in circles making constant wakes in every directing.

So show some respect to the people on the shore and other wakeboarders or skiers on the water.

88 PS190
09-05-2006, 12:04 PM
Most of the time when I see a boat doing something I disapprove of it is a college, or highschool kid driving, with alot of his buddies loaded up, and they're not really paying attention to anything but themselves.

X30's included in this mixture, and I'll say one of those with a new rider falling every couple wake crossings and the boater spinning around destroys some water. I even got knocked off of our transom while I was standing with my ski on waiting for the water to die, and worst part? I had a full release from my hardshells because the ski was underwater at that point and had to climb back onto the boat to put the ski on... Grr,

i don't think wakeboats should be banned, I just don't think the majority of riders need the wakes until they are alot more advanced, but since they have them they use them.

Kazzapped you are a blessing to boarders and skiers, but not all are.

skeeler
09-05-2006, 12:20 PM
The wakes that these boats put out is ridiculous. It is ruining the sport of waterskiing. They hog the lake all day and don't care what the wake does to other boats etc. I say hang em and hang em high.
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You have to joking, right? But if not, make a trip to Nebraska. Head to Beaver Lake, lot 734, and try to "hang" me high.

Archimedes
09-07-2006, 05:38 PM
we've had a few times this summer where we were skiing someone and i had to stop the boat, the wakes we were coming up on would have come right over us.

I was sitting in a cove on my boat this weekend at around 8am on glassy water enjoying my morning coffee (Diet Coke) waiting for the rest of the family to get up and out to the dock and a Malibu Wakesetter came by with what must have been full ballast and the wake nearly swamped my X-1. I was shocked. The boarder looked pretty good, but the wake was insane.