PDA

View Full Version : Repacking a Traditional Stuffing Box


east tx skier
02-10-2006, 03:10 PM
I've had this explained to me in a general sense. As I understand it, essentially, all that's involved is removing the old wax rope from around the shaft and inside the hole. I'm told there is a special tool that makes this a snap. Next, you put your new wax rope into the hole, and just wrap it around the shaft several times. Then retighten the nut and adjust for proper drip rate.

1. Is this basically all there is to it?
2. What's this too called and where can I get it?
3. Is there any special way to wrap the new rope or does tightening the nut take care of everything?

If anyone would like to post a tutorial with pictures, that'd be great! :)

east tx skier
02-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Okay, make that 3 pieces of packing rope. Is it the 3/16" size?

Leroy
02-10-2006, 04:21 PM
Bump, and I remember seeing a how to somewhere and that you space the end/beginning of the next wrap out around the driveshaft so the end/beginning joints is spread out 1/3. Will see if I can search it out.

parrish1
02-10-2006, 04:31 PM
You are correct but I might add that the rope is not overlapped onto itself. You must cut the rope so that it forms a butt joint on itself. Measureing it can be a bit tricky. Always go a little longer than you want because if you cut it too short you have to start over. I needed no special tool to get it into its proper location. Maybe a small dull screwdriver to tease it into its place. Now that one piece is in place do it again forming a but joint but dont let the new joint coincide with the first--alternate its location, and so on with the third. Discount Inboard Marine has all you need including advice. I used a new kevlar material that is totally synthetic and it has worked out great. I am sure one continuous piece would work as well but I was told to do it as described above--maybe the butt joint technique is only for the newer kevlar material. ??? Also, screwing your nut down between each piece is how you get it seated properly. With your final piece in place you would adjust it to be firm but still allow rotation of the shaft by hand. You cannot do final adjustment until it has been run for a while and then check drip rate. With the kevlar rope there will be no drip so you have to trust that you didnt over tighten as that might over heat the material and cause it to fail too soon. Hope I didnt tell you a bunch of things you already knew or didnt need to know.

Leroy
02-10-2006, 04:54 PM
And I thought we were the only board that could beat a dead horse....beat it again! I don't see talk of tool to take out or push in the packing.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2699&hl=packing&st=0

Packing
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=770&hl=packing

east tx skier
02-10-2006, 04:56 PM
Thanks. I just saw that Gortex packing at skidim. So you've had good experience with it? I guess I don't really understand what you mean by a butt joint with the packing rope. This is where pictures would be handy. If anyone is about to do this, please take some pictures and put together a how-to.

88 PS190
02-10-2006, 05:45 PM
Butt Joint \ angle cuts on both ends \. so that the rope goes ~=====\ then \====~ back to the otherside once they are "Butted" against each other like so ====\\==== they connect over much larger area than if they connect like so ===||==== Additionally this allows the rope to ride up/over itself under compression and slide back and expand when its loosened.

ha ha i said butted....

east tx skier
02-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Thanks.

Now all we need is pictures. :)

C'mon. Now I know I'm not the only one that's been meaning to do this.

Ric
02-10-2006, 05:51 PM
Butt Joint \ angle cuts on both ends \. so that the rope goes ~=====\ then \====~ back to the otherside once they are "Butted" against each other like so ====\\==== they connect over much larger area than if they connect like so ===||==== Additionally this allows the rope to ride up/over itself under compression and slide back and expand when its loosened.

ha ha i said butted....
hayyyyy, those look like mitre joints


nominates eastie to take pics of his shaft rope replacement project and post them

88 PS190
02-10-2006, 06:55 PM
Lol, dunno how many people who have done this want to pull it apart again to make a tutorial. If i get into it at the beginning of the summer i'll be sure to snap some shots.

There's a good book about yacht repair
w/ pictures i'll look for it.

Cloaked
02-10-2006, 06:58 PM
Thanks. I just saw that Gortex packing at skidim. The only way to go but don't waste the concept to allow a drip. You're defeating the purpose of the material.

A butt joint is simply contact from end to end, in lieu of over lapping. Stagger the joints as well.

88PS has you going in the right direction.

TMCNo1
02-10-2006, 07:02 PM
FYI, we purchased our '89 PS 190, 17 years ago. I adjust the stuffing box once each year after the 2nd trip to the lake, cause the first 2 trips out will cause it to leak from drying out over the off season. I have never replaced the packing, but only added to it one time 7 yrs ago. When I tighten the packing nut with a pipe wrench, I tighten it until the rubber tube between the packing gland and the hull fitting twists about 1/4". I do not run the boat hard for about 10 min. or so then all is well, no excessive heat, squeeking or anything after all these years and it only drips about once every 5 min. or so while running and none at idle or stopped. We keep a heavy duty bath mat under the stuffing box up to and under the transmission to catch any drippings and will dry up in about an hour after return from the lake. When we clean up the boat when we get home from the lake we always check the mat and it is most always dry except for a spot about the size if a coke can bottom. Unless we get caught in a rainstorm or do a real hard power turn and take on water, we do not replace the mat until the end of the summer. Yes, I am anal about my bilge, but our bottom plug is NEVER removed, and yes the gelcoat in the bilge is waxed with PLEDGE furniture polish. Another tip, I purchased a black 8" dia. plastic hatch from West Marine, $21+- and placed it in my floor over the stuffing box, behind the motor, so now I don't have to remove the rear seat, all those screws, motor cover, gas tank panel and floor board to adjust the stuffing box. I just pop the round lid from the ring mounted in the floor adjust the stuffing box and pop the lid back in 10 min. tops.................Later

Ric
02-10-2006, 07:41 PM
wish I could say I never pull the bilge plug but my ice chest drain plug drains into the bilge :o [loves his built in ice chests in his world record towboat :D ]
FYI, we purchased our '89 PS 190, 17 years ago. I adjust the stuffing box once each year after the 2nd trip to the lake, cause the first 2 trips out will cause it to leak from drying out over the off season. I have never replaced the packing, but only added to it one time 7 yrs ago. When I tighten the packing nut with a pipe wrench, I tighten it until the rubber tube between the packing gland and the hull fitting twists about 1/4". I do not run the boat hard for about 10 min. or so then all is well, no excessive heat, squeeking or anything after all these years and it only drips about once every 5 min. or so while running and none at idle or stopped. We keep a heavy duty bath mat under the stuffing box up to and under the transmission to catch any drippings and will dry up in about an hour after return from the lake. When we clean up the boat when we get home from the lake we always check the mat and it is most always dry except for a spot about the size if a coke can bottom. Unless we get caught in a rainstorm or do a real hard power turn and take on water, we do not replace the mat until the end of the summer. Yes, I am anal about my bilge, but our bottom plug is NEVER removed, and yes the gelcoat in the bilge is waxed with PLEDGE furniture polish. Another tip, I purchased a black 8" dia. plastic hatch from West Marine, $21+- and placed it in my floor over the stuffing box, behind the motor, so now I don't have to remove the rear seat, all those screws, motor cover, gas tank panel and floor board to adjust the stuffing box. I just pop the round lid from the ring mounted in the floor adjust the stuffing box and pop the lid back in 10 min. tops.................Later

AirJunky
02-10-2006, 07:58 PM
wish I could say I never pull the bilge plug but my ice chest drain plug drains into the bilge :o [loves his built in ice chests in his world record towboat :D ]
So where is the ice chest in the newer boats? My ski locker has nasty bilge water in it usually so no way I'd keep anything other than a fat sac in there. And the glovebox/ice chest idea is about stupid. :rant: If it's full of beer, where would I store all the other stuff normal people keep in a glovebox?!
I have a soft cooler I pack home so I can fill it with fresh ice & beer, then use it to pack all the empties out of the boat.

Hoosier Bob
02-10-2006, 08:07 PM
Hey Doug,
I did mine last year and it was a snap. Three pieces purchased from the local MC shop and a little time to remove the old is all it takes. The pieces go end to end and each piece will be cut already perfectly to the circumference of the shaft and the interior of the collar. You will put one in end to it's own end before you add the next piece. Leave your floor out and snug accordingly to the correct drip rate. Lock it down and you are done. I believe I used an old spoke to remove the old drip seal. Good luck!I've had this explained to me in a general sense. As I understand it, essentially, all that's involved is removing the old wax rope from around the shaft and inside the hole. I'm told there is a special tool that makes this a snap. Next, you put your new wax rope into the hole, and just wrap it around the shaft several times. Then retighten the nut and adjust for proper drip rate.

1. Is this basically all there is to it?
2. What's this too called and where can I get it?
3. Is there any special way to wrap the new rope or does tightening the nut take care of everything?

If anyone would like to post a tutorial with pictures, that'd be great! :)

Ric
02-10-2006, 08:24 PM
jacked.....

the 190 has an ice chest of sorts in the floor next to the driver directly in front of the pylon
the 197 has an ice chest in the walkthru and the same ice chest as the 190 in the floor
so.... the 197 has one chest for your beers and one chest in the floor for your empties. It's nice

east tx skier
02-10-2006, 08:35 PM
Thanks some more everyone. Now someone take pictures so I don't have to. ;)

Bill, that ski locker is for a big beer cooler. Skis would get soaked. I clean mine out once per year.

AirJunky
02-10-2006, 08:45 PM
Bill, that ski locker is for a big beer cooler. Skis would get soaked. I clean mine out once per year.
Man what a pain that would be to get all the emptys out. Mine goes all the way up into the bow area 3' or4' or more past the door.

east tx skier
02-10-2006, 08:49 PM
Yeah, I really have to jack the trailer up to get the water to drain down. Shop vac usually required.

Hoosier Bob
02-10-2006, 08:51 PM
Don't you just throw them in the lake? Hey, your not one of those commi environmentalists I keep hearing about are you? :D Man what a pain that would be to get all the emptys out. Mine goes all the way up into the bow area 3' or4' or more past the door.

X-45
02-10-2006, 09:21 PM
We keep a heavy duty bath mat under the stuffing box up to and under the transmission to catch any drippings


-----:eek:-----

jayderwin1
02-10-2006, 09:49 PM
how often should you repack your shaft seal? and what is the normal drip rate?

TMCNo1
02-10-2006, 09:58 PM
-----:eek:-----


Yea, I know!, but don't motels put them in front of the bathtub for you to use or at least let you borrow them, well I found a good use for them and in color too! They also make good fender covers too for climbing in and out of the boat. :eek: :eek:

Leroy
02-10-2006, 10:05 PM
Guess you are not interested in the upcoming MasterCraft towel offer either!



Yea, I know!, but don't motels put them in front of the bathtub for you to use or at least let you borrow them, well I found a good use for them and in color too! They also make good fender covers too for climbing in and out of the boat. :eek: :eek:

TMCNo1
02-10-2006, 10:06 PM
how often should you repack your shaft seal? and what is the normal drip rate?


I guess it's a matter of preference, I've met a lot of drips who get their rocks off just watching the bilge pump run and think it's the coolest thing they have ever seen. :eek: :confused:

TMCNo1
02-10-2006, 10:20 PM
Guess you are not interested in the upcoming MasterCraft towel offer either!

Maybe I shouldn't disclose this, but we've got at least 1 of every towel that MasterCraft has offered since '89 and some prior to that, yet if they come out with any new ones we will get some of those too, Have you seen the fleece throw they offer with the Gold monograming. Hope in the future they offer MasterCraft birth control devices...............Nevermind!, I'!ve been on the swimsuit pics thread too much! :dance:

jayderwin1
02-10-2006, 10:22 PM
i don't mind having a little water in the bilge. i guess the more drip the better lubricated. so when you get friction in the shaft packing the only thing it will hurt is the packing? not the shaft or the actual gromet that holds the packing?

TonyB
02-11-2006, 06:17 PM
screwing your nut down between each piece is how you get it seated properly.
Ouch! :eek3:

TMCNo1
02-11-2006, 07:42 PM
Ouch! :eek3:

Seating properly, between each piece, keeps your nut from being screwed! 8p 8p

milkmania
02-11-2006, 08:04 PM
Guess you are not interested in the upcoming MasterCraft towel offer either!

......just waiting for them to get it into the membership package:headbang:

TMCNo1
02-11-2006, 09:05 PM
......just waiting for them to get it into the membership package:headbang:

Milk when we go to MC in a couple weeks, I"ll check on the towel issue and if they have any I'll get you one!, and I"ll let you know!

east tx skier
02-11-2006, 11:48 PM
Okay, so how about an illustration and scan it in. I know there's a shaft and two nuts. The top nut is what controls the drip rate.

Do I unscrew both to get at the packing? Are they wrapped in a spiral abutting one another as mentioned above or do I wrap one with its own ends abutting, then the next up toward the drip nut, then the next space just a bit apart, then they get squished together by the nut when I retighten. I know that's an awful sentence. Hopefully, someone with good artistic ability and a scanner will put me out of my misery.

/BUMP

DanC
02-12-2006, 12:47 AM
Doug,
Two nuts, one is just a lock nut the other, closest to the gland is the packing nut.
When you take this thing apart it will be obvious to you. The traditional wax packing is three rings with butt joints, just like piston rings. Joints offset so they don't line up. The tool to remove the packing is nothing but a pick with a u bend in the tip. Don't bother with one, an ice pick or needle nose pliers work fine.
This really is one of the easier maintenance items. It's just the logistics that are a pain in the butt. The only tricky part is getting the right tightness to get the drip rate right. It means wrenching on it while in the water with the floor up. As they say in the movies, "just do it".

Kell
02-12-2006, 01:11 AM
The tool to remove the packing is nothing but a pick with a u bend in the tip. Don't bother with one, an ice pick or needle nose pliers work fine.

I did this last spring on my Vdrive and access to the stuffing box is very limited. If you don't beleive me, then imagine a 6'4" 240 lbs guy cramed into the driver side rear locker...:eek: In any event, the special "tool" I came across was several dental instruments I picked up at my dentist which he gave me for free. Seems dentist toss these tools after so many uses.

east tx skier
02-12-2006, 10:21 AM
Doug,
The traditional wax packing is three rings with butt joints, just like piston rings. Joints offset so they don't line up.

Okay, this is where I'm having trouble visualizing (and presumably won't be able to see from looking at it as they (the old ones) will have been compressed by the nut)

So my questions.

Do these three pieces abut one another in sort of a spiral pattern around the shaft?

Or do I wrap them individually, i.e., each piece abuts itself and they are staggered?

Also, is it the 3/16" size?

Leroy
02-12-2006, 10:32 AM
Doug;

They abut themselves and the abutment is staggered by 120 degrees around the shaft.

Leroy
02-12-2006, 10:52 AM
Probably the same. From Supra manual.

Laurel_Lake_Skier
02-12-2006, 11:23 AM
Doug

I couldn't get the PDF file loaded here but if you google "stuffing box repacking" and then take the first link you see to
[PDF] Stuffing Box Maintenance
you'll find a pretty good article with some photos.....still none of the actual joint of the packing rope but the article should help.

Cloaked
02-12-2006, 03:48 PM
Okay, this is where I'm having trouble visualizing (and presumably won't be able to see from looking at it as they (the old ones) will have been compressed by the nut)

So my questions.

Do these three pieces abut one another in sort of a spiral pattern around the shaft?

Or do I wrap them individually, i.e., each piece abuts itself and they are staggered?

Also, is it the 3/16" size?
3-16" is the approx. diameter. Wrap individually, with each individual end butting to itself. Nothing should spiral. Stagger the butt joints 180 deg out from the previous joint. Wrench snug tight. Done deal.

east tx skier
02-12-2006, 06:43 PM
Good stuff. Thanks everyone. And thanks for the article LL Skier. I understand staggering the joints. Now, about how far apart are the three bits of packing rope?

Holtrodj
02-12-2006, 07:09 PM
The pieces of packing rope should all get jammed in there. Maybe I don't understand your question, but there shouldn't be any space.

I did this job last summer on my '96 190 with the advice of the machanic from the (very reputable) MC dealer. The difference was that I only used two pieces of rope and was told that there should be NO dripping. The rope cost like $0.99 each. I used have around 50 hrs on this job with no trouble or leaking. Are these just differences between the two boat models?

east tx skier
02-12-2006, 09:16 PM
My question about space was for installation purposes. I realize that when I tighten the nut, they'll get jammed together. So, did you leave any space between them?

They make a dripless packing rope (made from gortex or something---mentioned above). But as far as the traditional stuff, it's my understanding that without some drip, it's not going to last as long as it's not lubricated sufficiently. Have you checked it for excess heat after running it a bit? Mine doesn't leak a lot though.

east tx skier
03-10-2006, 08:36 PM
Okay, so it's done but for the drip adjustment. Boy did I make this out to be harder than it was. All the advise was much appreciated. To review ...

1. Use a pipe wrench to loosen the packing nut all the way off the threads. Using a pair of needle nosed pliers or a tiny screwdriver or coat hang wire, harpoon the old rope which is packed inside the big nut. There are three of them and they come out pretty easily one at a time. Keeping them intact will save you some time later.

2. On the 1:1, the rope size is 1/4". Using one of your old bits of rope, cut the new rope using a razor blade so it doesn't fray. You'll need three pieces.

3. Wrap the first piece around the shaft to make sure it fits around with hardly any space at the joint. Then cram it up in the nut while keeping it around the shaft abutting itself. Tighten the nut back down to seat it.

4. Unscrew the nut off the threads again and repeat step 3 for the next two pieces. Stagger the joints so they're not all lined up. Once it's seated, this can be tricky to find the joints. A good flashlight and some good eyes come in handy. Either 180 or 120 degrees is good. No hard numbers so long as they're not too close to the same between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3.

5. When all of the three rope sections are in the nut, tighten it back down.

6. Put the boat in the water and leave the shaft accessible. Crank up the motor and let it run for a second. Adjust so you see some drip. Then take the boat out and run it a while. When I went with my mechanic to do one, we ran it for about ten minutes. Bring the boat back to neutral and readjust the packing nut for the proper drip rate.

7. Drip Rate. There's no hard, fast answer to this. My mechanic likes 1 drip every second or two. I've read anything from once every 4 seconds, 15 seconds all the way to every five minutes. I guess if you can hold your hand over the packing and it doesn't feel like it's burning up after running the boat hard for a bit, it's probably alright. Once you get it like you like it, tighten up the jam nut.


That's it.

TMCNo1
03-10-2006, 08:55 PM
Eastie, you done good! I know how much everyone will appreciate your hard work and putting it into an instructional column so they can copy, use, then file for future reference. That's neeeeet!

lakes Rick
03-12-2006, 11:08 AM
I did this last spring on my Vdrive and access to the stuffing box is very limited. If you don't beleive me, then imagine a 6'4" 240 lbs guy cramed into the driver side rear locker...:eek: In any event, the special "tool" I came across was several dental instruments I picked up at my dentist which he gave me for free. Seems dentist toss these tools after so many uses.

Only reason I have never done mine.. These "direct drive" guys have no idea how much easier their boats are to do......

east tx skier
03-12-2006, 12:14 PM
Eastie, you done good! I know how much everyone will appreciate your hard work and putting it into an instructional column so they can copy, use, then file for future reference. That's neeeeet!

It's now in the FAQ, too. :)

TMCNo1
01-28-2007, 08:24 PM
A picture of the infamous Mastercraft bath mat under the stuffing box to catch a few drips,

JohnE
01-29-2007, 08:02 PM
So, here's a thread I never read. I just read it through and have to ask: All that and no picture Doug?

Thanks, though for the nice summary. I've never checked mine.

east tx skier
01-29-2007, 09:38 PM
So, here's a thread I never read. I just read it through and have to ask: All that and no picture Doug?

Thanks, though for the nice summary. I've never checked mine.

In the write up in the FAQ, there's a picture.

WilliM1940
01-29-2007, 10:01 PM
Just skimmed through here, is best to get a one inch dowel (for a one inch shaft) to wrap the stuff on and make the cut instead of measuring off old pieces. Also the drip rate for the gortex seems to be zero, with no final wrenching needed, just hand tight. It only gets warm to very warm at this torque. Tighter and it seems to get way hot. The access panel should have been original equipment me thinks.

JohnE
01-30-2007, 10:08 PM
In the write up in the FAQ, there's a picture.

Thanks Doug. Believe itor not, with ll the dialog, I can actually visualize it. And I thought I had read the faq's top to bottom.

east tx skier
01-30-2007, 10:19 PM
It always sounded way more complicated to me than it actually was. Probably among the easiest maintenance tasks there is.

87MCProstar
04-30-2007, 09:43 AM
will the rope being old/frayed/loose cause there to be just a little more vibration than normal??? Took the boat out for the first time this year and seemed a little shakey.

Tim

east tx skier
04-30-2007, 09:53 AM
My brother-in-law bought a used boat a few years ago and had an intermitent vibration. His dealer chased all sorts of potential causes. In the end, it turned out to be an improperly packed shaft stuffing.

87MCProstar
04-30-2007, 10:03 PM
what does this packing look like? i pulled the floorboard up this afternoon to take a look and I have to screw clamps and what feels to be a rubber hose where it looks like the packing should be. the rubber hose was soft like water was inside. I'll try to take a picture of it tomorrow, does anyone have a picture of there's?

Matt L.
05-01-2007, 01:23 AM
what does this packing look like? i pulled the floorboard up this afternoon to take a look and I have to screw clamps and what feels to be a rubber hose where it looks like the packing should be. the rubber hose was soft like water was inside. I'll try to take a picture of it tomorrow, does anyone have a picture of there's?

There is a big nut just above (toward the engine) the hose you are talking about. The packing in inside. THere should be a locking nut too.

Later,

Matt

87MCProstar
05-01-2007, 11:56 AM
anyone have pictures?

east tx skier
05-01-2007, 12:18 PM
anyone have pictures?

Here's a Link (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=159060&postcount=31)

87MCProstar
05-02-2007, 09:28 AM
Thanks east

zhensley
05-04-2007, 02:21 PM
check out this link... This is perfect, lots of pictures. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box

#47of100TeamMC
05-04-2007, 03:31 PM
I'd be careful cutting the stuffing like he mentions on that tutorial... I know he said make sure it's loose before you cut it... but check out what happens when you cut at the 45degree angle... It's too short!

Yellow line is the centerline of the shaft.
Cyan line is the cutting angle line at 45Deg.

If I were doing it, I'd take Eastie's advice and use the old one as a pattern for length. :twocents:

OhioProstar
05-13-2007, 10:40 AM
I just did mine last night and water tested it today. It was very simple, the gortex packing was easy to work with and seems to perform perfectly. You will need a strap wrench or large pipe wrench and a large channel lock. I think once the engine cover was off it took me 15 minutes using the old stuffing as a guide.