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View Full Version : Chico (Cali) Cop shoots Airman


PendO
02-01-2006, 05:23 PM
http://www.local6.com/news/6652276/detail.html


glad the airman lived, that cop better be out of a job!

And the city better get out the checkbook!

rodltg2
02-01-2006, 05:27 PM
oh oh , my buddy is a sherriff there, i should get the details.

DrNautica
02-01-2006, 05:37 PM
As a 16 year Police veteran, that video is very disturbing. Of course, there is much we don't know, but it sure appears from that tape that the shooting was unprovoked.

PendO
02-01-2006, 07:48 PM
oh oh , my buddy is a sherriff there, i should get the details.

Hope he's not the one on leave.

rodltg2
02-01-2006, 07:50 PM
doubt it, he's a helicopter pilot for the sheriiff dept. he hasnt done street patrol in years.

erkoehler
02-01-2006, 08:48 PM
Would be interesting to talk w/ the officer :rolleyes:

rodltg2
02-01-2006, 08:54 PM
not if he's packin

flipper
02-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Seems like there must be more to it. Didn't look like the guy did anything though.

oldschool84
02-01-2006, 09:02 PM
That is a Shi**y Day MY FRIENDS

lakes Rick
02-01-2006, 10:51 PM
Just like everytime I see a swat team.. They scare the hell out of me.. NO ONE needs automatic weapons!! Isnt that what our government tells us??????

erkoehler
02-01-2006, 10:53 PM
Just like everytime I see a swat team.. They scare the hell out of me.. NO ONE needs automatic weapons!! Isnt that what our government tells us??????


If the bad guys have automatic weapons, then the good guys have to have them too!!!

Ever see the video of the California bank robbery that went WAY BAD for the cops!!!! Had to borrow guns from a local gun shop.

lakes Rick
02-01-2006, 10:56 PM
If the bad guys have automatic weapons, then the good guys have to have them too!!!

Ever see the video of the California bank robbery that went WAY BAD for the cops!!!! Had to borrow guns from a local gun shop.

POOEY, one scoped 3.06 to the head and those guys would have been done... Proven fact the "little" bullets from an AK, M-16/ar, and 9mm do far less damage than a "legal" hunting rifle.....

erkoehler
02-01-2006, 10:59 PM
POOEY, one scoped 3.06 to the head and those guys would have been done... Proven fact the "little" bullets from an AK, M-16/ar, and 9mm do far less damage than a "legal" hunting rifle.....


Yep, try getting one of those approved by the politicans for Police to carry....ain't gonna happen! :(

PendO
02-02-2006, 12:32 AM
POOEY, one scoped 3.06 to the head and those guys would have been done... Proven fact the "little" bullets from an AK, M-16/ar, and 9mm do far less damage than a "legal" hunting rifle.....

Chit, most cops probably couldn't pass a hunters safety class!

Seriously, this cop got off four rounds at point blank and couldn't even put them in a group the size of a softball (thank God). I hope they put is *** in Chico with the rest of the cons in Cali!

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 12:33 AM
Chit, most cops probably couldn't pass a hunters safety class!

Seriously, this cop got off four rounds at point blank and couldn't even put them in a group the size of a softball (thank God). I hope they put is *** in Chico with the rest of the cons in Cali!



As a future LEO, I resent the first half of that statement!!! :mad:

LakePirate
02-02-2006, 12:39 AM
As a future LEO, I resent the first half of that statement!!! :mad:

How is that going for you Erk?

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 12:43 AM
How is that going for you Erk?


Coming along nicely, thanks....I am turning in a bunch of applications within the next month or so!

The only thing I have left to practice for the PT part of the exams is ensuring that you can get over a 6ft. wall. And, I'm not exactly sure how I would go out and practice that one? :huh:

Other than that, hopefully I will be somewhere soon, but I also am applying for some dispatcher jobs that I might be able to get into alittle sooner than an PD position.

PendO
02-02-2006, 12:44 AM
As a future LEO, I resent the first half of that statement!!! :mad:

Yeah, I'm probably painting with a broad brush, but that is jacked up ... 4 rounds into an unarmed guy ... and then you can hear the cop saying "Shut the 'F' Up" a bunch of times.

No need for deadly force, use a taser or something, that guy is gonna get one sweet paycheck ... and he deserves every damn penny!

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 12:47 AM
Yeah, I'm probably painting with a broad brush, but that is jacked up ... 4 rounds into an unarmed guy ... and then you can hear the cop saying "Shut the 'F' Up" a bunch of times.

No need for deadly force, use a taser or something, that guy is gonna get one sweet paycheck ... and he deserves every damn penny!


We don't know all the details, especially considering the source. Remember, the media is all about putting the right "SPIN" on a story.

For all we know, the guy could have had prior arrests/major warrants, the officer could have seen a weapon, there could have been an aggressive move towards the officer, but either way without being there we can't make any solid judgements.

LakePirate
02-02-2006, 12:49 AM
Glad to hear that Erk....I guess you could find a 6 foot wall to jump?

Don't know if you care at all but the GSP (Georgia State Patrol or God's Special People depending on who you ask) is hiring. They are way short on their numbers.

PendO
02-02-2006, 12:53 AM
We don't know all the details, especially considering the source. Remember, the media is all about putting the right "SPIN" on a story.

For all we know, the guy could have had prior arrests/major warrants, the officer could have seen a weapon, there could have been an aggressive move towards the officer, but either way without being there we can't make any solid judgements.

ERK - serch the guys name in the internet ... no prior arrests, back from IRAQ (a veteran) ... I can see that you are ready to be a cop, already making excuses why unarmed people get shot (disgusting)... could be that the cop was white and they guy was hispanic ... thank God it was caught on video, otherwise the officer would be LYING through his teeth about all that crap

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 12:54 AM
Glad to hear that Erk....I guess you could find a 6 foot wall to jump?

Don't know if you care at all but the GSP (Georgia State Patrol or God's Special People depending on who you ask) is hiring. They are way short on their numbers.


Trying to find a 6' wall to jump that I couldn't just push down or knock over is harder than you might think....I have found a 5' fence that I have gotten over, but the 6' brick wall might be alittle more discouraging.

I'm going to go look up the GSP.....

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 12:57 AM
ERK - serch the guys name in the internet ... no prior arrests, back from IRAQ (a veteran) ... I can see that you are ready to be a cop, already making excuses why unarmed people get shot (disgusting)... could be that the cop was white and they guy was hispanic ... thank God it was caught on video, otherwise the officer would be LYING through his teeth about all that crap


AW MAN, why'd you have to go and play the race card?

X2M
02-02-2006, 12:57 AM
ERK - serch the guys name in the internet ... no prior arrests, back from IRAQ (a veteran) ... I can see that you are ready to be a cop, already making excuses why unarmed people get shot (disgusting)... could be that the cop was white and they guy was hispanic ... thank God it was caught on video, otherwise the officer would be LYING through his teeth about all that crap


why are you so quick to say that the shooting was not justified??

LakePirate
02-02-2006, 01:00 AM
ERK - serch the guys name in the internet ... no prior arrests, back from IRAQ (a veteran) ... I can see that you are ready to be a cop, already making excuses why unarmed people get shot (disgusting)... could be that the cop was white and they guy was hispanic ... thank God it was caught on video, otherwise the officer would be LYING through his teeth about all that crap

Easy there PendO, there are 4 sides to every story, 1) Officer 2) suspect 3) media 4) Truth

milkmania
02-02-2006, 01:00 AM
I'm going to go look up the GSP.....

well, in the dogs thread, it stood for German Shorthaired Pointer:rolleyes:

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 01:00 AM
Don't know if you care at all but the GSP (Georgia State Patrol or God's Special People depending on who you ask) is hiring. They are way short on their numbers.


Looked up the openings in GA and there sure are an abundance of them! :eek:

However, the pay down there is nowhere near what it is up here. From the looks of it starting out you can expect to make in the low 30's in GA for most departments. In contrast to that, up here the 3 departments that I am currently applying to all start in the mid-upper 40's with one in the mid-50's. :headbang:

PendO
02-02-2006, 01:00 AM
why are you so quick to say that the shooting was not justified??

Because I have a clear understanding of when deadly force is allowed.

LakePirate
02-02-2006, 01:03 AM
Run your cost of living analysis

milkmania
02-02-2006, 01:04 AM
Run your cost of living analysis

ramen noodles, gas for boat, water, gas, electric, internet.......

that should cover it:D

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 01:04 AM
Because I have a clear understanding of when deadly force is allowed.


And, are you able to clearly see and examine EVERY detail and aspect of that encounter between the officer and suspect? I think NOT...the only one's that really know 100% of what happened there are the officer and the suspect.

For instance, why was the officer pulling that person over to begin with, or what brought the officer on to that scene? If it was a traffic stop, why did the suspect get out of the car? If the officer was responding to a call on that scene, why was the suspect trying to get in the car? Was he trying to get away? Possibly trying to retrieve a weapon from the vehicle?

To many unanswered questions here.....

X2M
02-02-2006, 01:04 AM
Because I have a clear understanding of when deadly force is allowed.

I don't happen to agree with you on this one.

we weren't there and can only see from a dark video one side of the story.

*edit -fixed it for ya Milk. ;)

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 01:05 AM
Run your cost of living analysis


Help me out with that, where do I get that info?

milkmania
02-02-2006, 01:09 AM
i don't happen to agree with you on this one.

we weren't there and can only see from a dark video one side of the story.

she's right.....


I like to refer to it as "media grooming"


psst......
you guys notice she didn't capitalize her i?


/going back for more researchhttp://aritah.com/images/smilies/toilet.gif

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 01:10 AM
she's right.....


I like to refer to it as "media grooming"


psst......
you guys notice she didn't capitalize her i?


/going back for more researchhttp://aritah.com/images/smilies/toilet.gif



Call Steveo for an edit.....

LakePirate
02-02-2006, 01:12 AM
Help me out with that, where do I get that info?

http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html

You are probably not going to be living in Atlanta and the cost of living greatly decreases once you get OTP (outside the perimeter)

milkmania
02-02-2006, 01:15 AM
boy, if this thread didn't derail http://aritah.com/images/smilies/stooges.gif


edit:
oops, I meant for this post to be in this thread http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=7025

but I guess it applies here also:purplaugh

LakePirate
02-02-2006, 01:20 AM
boy, if this thread didn't derail http://aritah.com/images/smilies/stooges.gif

Saving ourselves from ourselves.


Actually waiting on you to start a new one. :D

PendO
02-02-2006, 01:21 AM
i don't happen to agree with you on this one.

we weren't there and can only see from a dark video one side of the story.

1 side of the story?

Who's side is that, the cop with the gun yelling "shut the F up after he shoots him?" OR The guy moaning after he gets shot?

If there was not a video then we would have multiple sides of the story ... the guy who was shot was not even the driver ... oh, what, the officer had a reasonable (http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cjs04.htm) aprehension of harm ... this guy was pissed and didn't like having to chase down a couple of hispanics in a corvette, his adrenaline is pumping, and bam! next thing you know an innocent guy is shot because this particular cop did not keep his cool.

Caveat - I do not intend to paint cops / LEO's with a broad brush, as all of my experiences have been positive - civil rights are civil rights, we should all have them, regardless of skin color.

milkmania
02-02-2006, 01:22 AM
Saving ourselves from ourselves.


Actually waiting on you to start a new one. :D

changed my initial post;)

X2M
02-02-2006, 01:34 AM
1 side of the story?

Who's side is that, the cop with the gun yelling "shut the F up after he shoots him?" OR The guy moaning after he gets shot?

If there was not a video then we would have multiple sides of the story ... the guy who was shot was not even the driver ... oh, what, the officer had a reasonable (http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cjs04.htm) aprehension of harm ... this guy was pissed and didn't like having to chase down a couple of hispanics in a corvette, his adrenaline is pumping, and bam! next thing you know an innocent guy is shot because this particular cop did not keep his cool.

Caveat - I do not intend to paint cops / LEO's with a broad brush, as all of my experiences have been positive - civil rights are civil rights, we should all have them, regardless of skin color.

I don't agree with your opinion of the cop being wrong just from watching the video.

We don't know what happened before, during or after the shooting. No possible way we can get all the info just from a dark video.

PendO
02-02-2006, 01:39 AM
I don't agree with your opinion of the cop being wrong just from watching the video.

We don't know what happened before, during or after the shooting. No possible way we can get all the info just from a dark video.

After?

They put him in a helicopter and flew him to a hospital.

Don't worry, they will try and spin it as negative as possible ... how scared the officer was ... bla bla bla ... he (the shooter) is a police officer with a gun, and likely a bullet proof vest ... but I'm sure he had a reasonable aprehension of harm, its a good thing the guy was hispanic, had he been black the officer may have just shot him while he sat in the car! SARCASM

X2M
02-02-2006, 01:47 AM
After?

They put him in a helicopter and flew him to a hospital.

Don't worry, they will try and spin it as negative as possible ... how scared the officer was ... bla bla bla ... he (the shooter) is a police officer with a gun, and likely a bullet proof vest ... but I'm sure he had a reasonable aprehension of harm, its a good thing the guy was hispanic, had he been black the officer may have just shot him while he sat in the car! SARCASM

you're right about after...the guy was shot and went to the hospital.

but what happened before...???

why are you so angry about this? and what's up with throwin' down the race card?

PendO
02-02-2006, 02:23 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-highspeed2feb02,0,28796.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Deputy's Taped Shots Look Criminal to Some
By Matt Lait and Lance Pugmire, Times Staff Writers


A San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy who shot a 21-year-old Air Force security officer in an incident captured on videotape appears to have violated accepted police tactics and may have committed a criminal offense, experts in the use of force by police said Wednesday.

The experts cautioned that the low quality of the videotape may obscure some important evidence. But what is visible the image of the deputy firing multiple rounds at 21-year-old Elio Carrion as he appeared to follow the deputy's order to get off the ground was shocking, they said.

"It's a criminal act," said Roger Clark, a former Los Angeles County sheriff's lieutenant who routinely testifies in court as an expert in police tactics. Clark has worked both for police officers and for citizens who have sued the police.

"He shot an unarmed man who was complying with his orders."

David Klinger, a use-of-force expert who teaches at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and wrote a book on police shootings titled, "Into The Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force," said the tape was "the screwiest thing I've ever seen. It makes no sense."

"What I saw was totally incongruous with standard police doctrine," said Klinger, a professor of criminology and onetime LAPD officer.

The incident was videotaped by a bystander and shows Carrion crouching on the ground telling the deputy he was "on your side" and meant him "no harm."

At one point, a voice on the tape appears to say "stay on the ground." Seconds later, however, the deputy appears to tell Carrion: "Get up, get up." As Carrion rises, the deputy, who is standing several feet away, shoots him three times. Carrion remains hospitalized in good condition.

Carrion was the passenger in a blue Corvette that had led the deputy on a brief, high-speed chase Sunday night. The chase ended when the driver crashed into a fence on a residential street. Neither Carrion nor the driver had any weapons, sheriff's officials said.

On Tuesday, the U.S. attorney's office said a federal civil rights probe of the shooting had been opened.

A separate investigation is being conducted by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. On Wednesday, county Dist. Atty. Michael Ramos said in a statement that "we fully expect the investigation to be both thorough and comprehensive." Once the sheriff's investigation is finished, Ramos said, his prosecutors "will then make our decision" on whether to bring charges against the deputy.

The deputy's name has been withheld by sheriff's officials, who have released few details about the shooting. Department officials are concerned that the deputy or his family could become the target of threats, said Dave Cadell, spokesman for the Sheriff's department.

Law enforcement officials warned against making quick judgments about the shooting until the tape had been thoroughly analyzed and investigations completed.

The tape, which has received national media attention, is poor in quality and was shot at night and on a dark residential street. Conversations between the deputy and Carrion are at times difficult to hear, and some statements are too faint or garbled to be discerned.

Sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said some dialogue appeared to be inaudible because of background noise.

"We're hoping the FBI's forensic exam of the tape will provide a complete description of the dialogue," Beavers said. "And then there will be no doubts."

Under state law, officers are allowed to use deadly force if they perceive a person presents a deadly threat to themselves or others. However, several law enforcement experts who reviewed the tape said they did not see any threat from Carrion that would justify the use of deadly force.

Carrion was not charged with any crime. The driver of the vehicle, Luis Fernando Escobedo, 21, was arrested on suspicion of felony evading, but has not been charged and was released from jail Tuesday night.

Escobedo held an impromptu press conference on the front lawn of his home in Montclair on Wednesday afternoon, and said both he and Carrion were trying to cooperate with the deputy, and that the deputy had no reason to open fire.

"We were both talking to the officer," Escobedo said. "We were saying, 'We're not armed.' "




********* why the race card ... honestly I enjoy civil rights and criminal procedure, and you can't ignore the facts when it comes to the ethnicity/race of those who end up getting shot unarmed

jimmer2880
02-02-2006, 06:58 AM
......
why are you so angry about this? and what's up with throwin' down the race card?

That is something that really irratates me. When something bad happened, and the people happend to be of different races. It's automatically determined "it's becuase he was black/hispanic/a person of purple color, gay, whatever". I call Bullsh!t. People to bad things all the time. This time - IF it comes out that the cop mad a wrong move, it MAY very well be just "a bad move". I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist. But, I think that what most people call racism isn't.

:popcorn:

X2M
02-02-2006, 09:19 AM
********* why the race card ... honestly I enjoy civil rights and criminal procedure, and you can't ignore the facts when it comes to the ethnicity/race of those who end up getting shot unarmed

My point is that you are making a judgment against the officer without having all the facts....and making it sound like the officer shot because the guy was hispanic...and that I don't agree with.

erkoehler
02-02-2006, 11:03 AM
My point is that you are making a judgment against the officer without having all the facts....and making it sound like the officer shot because the guy was hispanic...and that I don't agree with.


I'll second that, also in the article posted above it states that the suspect led the police on a high speed chase...which leads me to question was something thrown out of the vehicle, was there a weapon present, why was he running in the first place? The only reason to run is if you have something to hide...... :rolleyes:

PendO
02-02-2006, 12:17 PM
I'll second that, also in the article posted above it states that the suspect led the police on a high speed chase...which leads me to question was something thrown out of the vehicle, was there a weapon present, why was he running in the first place? The only reason to run is if you have something to hide...... :rolleyes:

The guy who got shot was the P A S S E N G E R (unarmed)

anyway, back to your book of excuses.

If you want, check out this link and read both pages, sounds like the guy who got shot had a history of being a pretty good citizen. (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-highspeed1feb01,0,2687320.story?page=2&coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines)

rodltg2
02-02-2006, 06:53 PM
i dont know if this was mentioned before but its chino not chico.

AirJunky
02-02-2006, 07:02 PM
I'll second that, also in the article posted above it states that the suspect led the police on a high speed chase...which leads me to question was something thrown out of the vehicle, was there a weapon present, why was he running in the first place? The only reason to run is if you have something to hide...... :rolleyes:
I wish that were totally true. I have 2 false arrest lawsuits....... and won both times.

jmyers
02-02-2006, 07:03 PM
I'll second that, also in the article posted above it states that the suspect led the police on a high speed chase...which leads me to question was something thrown out of the vehicle, was there a weapon present, why was he running in the first place? The only reason to run is if you have something to hide...... :rolleyes:
Erk, he sure didn't (run) to far! The bullets right next to car stopped that!

PendO
02-03-2006, 12:22 PM
Not to be outdone, our local Spokane County Sheriff's deputy filled his quota for the day:

1 white suspected car theif shot dead, how's that for due process ...

http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=4447444

erkoehler
02-03-2006, 12:29 PM
Erk, he sure didn't (run) to far! The bullets right next to car stopped that!


I was referring to the car chase that was mentioned.