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View Full Version : Put 9 holes in the boat this weekend...


P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 11:16 AM
on purpose. 8p
Starting ballast install project. 4 Simer pumps each on own thru hull (2 on the bottom, 2 on the stern). 5 vents ( 1 each for two rear bags and center bag, and 2 for bow bag). Putting all polished stainless above the water line...which has me thinking I need the chrome exhaust tips. Too bad they're $450! :eek:

I'm thinking about taking pictures along the way for a possible DIY thread.

Pictures follow...

SteveO
01-30-2006, 11:32 AM
Post pics. Where did you order the pumps and inlet and vent fittings from? Love to see the work in progress.

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 11:38 AM
Post pics. Where did you order the pumps and inlet and vent fittings from? Love to see the work in progress.

I'm trying to get pics up, but the ones I have with me won't resize at a good enough quality to post. I'm still messin' with some software to make it happen.

Pumps from BE Atlas. Vent fittings from www.boatfix.com.

First "Lessons Learned"...vent fitting sizes are according to pipe ID size they will mate to, not what ID you want the vent ID to be. For example, a 5/8" vent fitting means the OD hose barb is made to fit a 5/8" ID (mating) hose.

Leroy
01-30-2006, 11:40 AM
:eek: Nine holes! Couldn't you run some inside plumbing? I must be out of touch, is this normally how many holes are drilled?

Mag_Red
01-30-2006, 11:45 AM
Would love to see some pics, or better yet, invite me over to see the progress. :D

Diesel
01-30-2006, 11:49 AM
No need for that many intakes. You will not exceed the GPH flow capabilities of a single intake even with 4 pumps.

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 11:53 AM
OK...let's try the pics... BTW...all vents are just set in place (No 3M 5200 sealant yet).

#1...Vent holes (3) on port are all new.

Mag...I can't have anyone in my garage right now. Looks like a tornado has gone thru b/c every ballast bag, seating surface, and kick panel is out of the boat. I'm not upholing the MC perfectionist image right now. However, it would be great to catch up sometime!

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 11:54 AM
Stern inlet/outlets. See why I need chrome exhaust tips now!?!? :cool:

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 11:56 AM
Lastly...for now...bottom thru hull inlets/outlets. The rear most holes, one is empty and the other has the bronze fitting in it. Black is PP paddlewheel, "scooper" is engine raw water intake.

teamstreng
01-30-2006, 12:04 PM
Nice work P-Hat!

erkoehler
01-30-2006, 12:14 PM
Nice work, it is going to turn out very nicely :D

jrhollow
01-30-2006, 12:19 PM
How lbs are you planning on putting in?

xbrdr1
01-30-2006, 12:55 PM
Nice job hat. That's how I run mine. 1 intake hole per bag/per pump.

Don't screw with any manifold....

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 01:19 PM
How lbs are you planning on putting in?

Check out the webpage I have in my profile.

I'm hoping to get about 2000lbs worth, but I suspect it'll be under that due to lack of ballast space in the nose.

Nice job hat. That's how I run mine. 1 intake hole per bag/per pump.

Don't screw with any manifold....

Yep! Drillin' holes is easy. It's fixing the mistake that is hard (thank goodness no experience with that!)!

4 intakes may sound like overkill, but the intakes are designed as to not restrict flow thru the pump. And as xbrdr1 commented, it's the design I chose to stay away from a manifold. 5 vent holes may sound like overkill, but ballast is best filled with water rather than air. Also, anyone ever see an unvented ballast bag burst? I almost did!


WHOOT!!! 100th post!

SteveO
01-30-2006, 01:57 PM
Looks great P-hat. I also attached a link from DanC on his install. http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=1933&highlight=ballast Between the the of you, I am really getting motivated to take action. How many hours do you have into the ballast project to this point>

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 02:42 PM
How many hours do you have into the ballast project to this point>
Actual work hours, probably 6. However, I have done a lot of 'front loading.' By that I mean research, planning, and buying. All of which I'd be happy to share.

Diesel
01-30-2006, 04:05 PM
First off I admire anyone who has the guts to drill those kind of holes in their boat :D ................. but I wanted to add just a few comments and please do not take it the wrong way I am just pointing it out for others that might be installing a ballast system. :)

Your rear intakes will not be under water when the boat is moving. In addition since you did not use a scooper on the bottom I doubt the bottom intakes will pull much water when the boat is moving due to turbulence. As a result you will not be able to fill while underway.

Also how are you going to know when the tanks/bags are empty if you are using the through hulls for emptying the tanks?? I guess you could listen for the dry impellers so again you will not be able to empty while underway without risking damage to the pumps.

Since I just bought my boat last year and this is the first ballast system I have ever had on my boat I have learned that they are a necessary evil. I absolutely hate the amount of time it takes to fill/empty the bags and being able to do it on the fly is a huge plus. Even so, my rear bag will take a good 20-25 minutes to fill with the factory Jabsco ballast puppy and I have plans this winter to add another pump to the rear sac to speed things up.

All the calculations I made show that the stock manifold and intake will very easily be able to supply the needed GPH flow for the additional pump. However the quick connect fittings on the bag do appear to restrict flow and do not allow the pumps to work to their full capabilities (hence my intention to add an additional pump and fill port on the bag).

I do agree with you on the vents..............they are a must and all my bags actually have two 1" vents for "extra" protection.

Good luck and keep us posted :)

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 04:48 PM
Diesel,

Don't worry about me taking things the wrong way. I enjoy, and recognize, that there are other ideas out there.

Regarding 2 transom intakes. The intention is that those bags (bow and center "locker") will get filled to full capacity at drop in and not have to be adjusted throughout the day, except to maybe let ballast out. If I need to add, it'll just have to be after the rider goes down.

The 2 bottom intakes are for the rear bags which will be used to fill and adjust for boat loading imbalances (wake wash).

Regarding rear intakes not using scoopers. Our former X10 stock ballast system didn't use scoopers and I had no issues. If I run into issues I can add scoopers.

I could have gone with a manifold type system and used multiple pumps off a single intake. I chose not to so that I know I'm getting maximum efficiency out of each pump. I figured using only 1 intake per pump gives me the "tightest" (most closed) system, rather than relying on all other parts of the system being sealed.

I'll know when the bags are empty because I'll watch them. Our X10 expelled water out the side, but I ALWAYS visually checked anyway. It's a habit/safety check I always do.

Anyways...as they say..."there are more than 2 ways to skin a cat"!

Take care.

Leroy
01-30-2006, 05:13 PM
Could you have used the drain plug for an inlet? But it would not have the eye candy appeal of the chrome inlets.



Stern inlet/outlets. See why I need chrome exhaust tips now!?!? :cool:

Diesel
01-30-2006, 05:21 PM
:) Diesel,

Don't worry about me taking things the wrong way. I enjoy, and recognize, that there are other ideas out there.

Regarding 2 transom intakes. The intention is that those bags (bow and center "locker") will get filled to full capacity at drop in and not have to be adjusted throughout the day, except to maybe let ballast out. If I need to add, it'll just have to be after the rider goes down.

The 2 bottom intakes are for the rear bags which will be used to fill and adjust for boat loading imbalances (wake wash).

Regarding rear intakes not using scoopers. Our former X10 stock ballast system didn't use scoopers and I had no issues. If I run into issues I can add scoopers.

I could have gone with a manifold type system and used multiple pumps off a single intake. I chose not to so that I know I'm getting maximum efficiency out of each pump. I figured using only 1 intake per pump gives me the "tightest" (most closed) system, rather than relying on all other parts of the system being sealed.

I'll know when the bags are empty because I'll watch them. Our X10 expelled water out the side, but I ALWAYS visually checked anyway. It's a habit/safety check I always do.

Anyways...as they say..."there are more than 2 ways to skin a cat"!

Take care.

Great response :)

What type of bags are you using??

xbrdr1
01-30-2006, 06:28 PM
hat..did you think about 1 more hole? I think that new large pro-x bag in the front would 'like' 2 Simer's slammin' each of those holes in the 'legs' of the bags.

Tom023
01-30-2006, 07:32 PM
Looks great! You mentioned sealing everything with 5200, is there a reason why? 5200 is an adhesive that once bonded, is almost impossible to remove and will pull the gelcoat off sometimes. There are a number of good sealants out there to bed the fittings without the adhesive properties.

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-30-2006, 09:40 PM
hat..did you think about 1 more hole? I think that new large pro-x bag in the front would 'like' 2 Simer's slammin' each of those holes in the 'legs' of the bags.
Come on xbrdr1...you know the madness has to stop somewhere! I'll have to put a "T" after the front sac pump to feed both sides.

What type of bags are you using??
Straightline 680lbs each side of engine (I don't care for them, but have to run them for now). I'd like to have the Fly High Pro X Fat Sacs. Center locker sac is a Get High Sports custom locker bag. I estimate about 400lbs. For the bow I have a Fly High Pro X Series Integrated Bow bag. Advertised capacity of 800lbs, but the 205V hull won't allow 50% of that underneath bow seats.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy all Fly High Pro X stuff. It's great quality and virtually made to fit my application.

You mentioned sealing everything with 5200, is there a reason why?
That's all from past experience. What do you have in mind?

I have to fess up...I realized I only drilled 8 holes. 2 on the starboard side already existed. So, I drilled 4 inlets/outlets and 4 vents. Let the stoning begin!

6ballsisall
01-30-2006, 11:13 PM
Man P Hat you are brave!! I don't have the nads to cut into my hull like that! :eek:

Tom023
01-31-2006, 06:44 AM
That's all from past experience. What do you have in mind?



I was going to post a link to a good overview of sealants and adhesives at www.westmarine.com but their site isn't working this morning,but this may help: www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm I recently redid my water intake thru-hull and used a polysulfide sealant, but not adhesive. I didn't need the adhesive properties since the thru-hull is mounted with the backing ring. 5200 is fine if you know you will never need to remove the fittings, but if there is a chance you may want to use something else. Google 5200 removal and read about the difficulties. I hear people using 5200 all the time and wonder if they realize what they are getting into... I speak from experience on this one :mad:

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-31-2006, 06:52 AM
5200 is fine if you know you will never need to remove the fittings, but if there is a chance you may want to use something else. Google 5200 removal and read about the difficulties. I hear people using 5200 all the time and wonder if they realize what they are getting into... I speak from experience on this one :mad:

Thanks for the info. I'll do some research.

Leroy
01-31-2006, 08:42 AM
I think P-Hat's new song is from the Beatles, "Happiness is a warm drill" :D

DanC
01-31-2006, 01:01 PM
In addition since you did not use a scooper on the bottom I doubt the bottom intakes will pull much water when the boat is moving due to turbulence. As a result you will not be able to fill while underway.:)

No problem. I use a 1" hull feedthrough, no scoop. It fills AND drains about 5% faster when underway at 30 mph (probably because of the higher engine rpm, not hydrodynamics)


Also how are you going to know when the tanks/bags are empty if you are using the through hulls for emptying the tanks?? I guess you could listen for the dry impellers so again you will not be able to empty while underway without risking damage to the pumps..:)

yep, this is a pain in the butt for me, I have to watch the bags. But I prefer this over using valves to pump out the sides and reducing the water flow rates. I run the Simers dry and after a couple of minutes they will pop the fuse. No problem after 3 years but we will see how long the impellers last.

. Even so, my rear bag will take a good 20-25 minutes to fill with the factory Jabsco ballast puppy and I have plans this winter to add another pump to the rear sac to speed things up. .:)

hmm, I have a 6oo lb bag, a 375 lb, and a 519 lb bag (no way are any of these weights correct, just the advertised size) and they will fill simultaneously with three simer pumps from the same 1" input in 7 minutes 15 seconds. One bag by itself takes me 6 minutes 15 seconds. Theoretically the Simers should be able to fill a regular 600 lb fat sack, about 68 gallons in 6.8 minutes.

Diesel
01-31-2006, 02:08 PM
hmm, I have a 6oo lb bag, a 375 lb, and a 519 lb bag (no way are any of these weights correct, just the advertised size) and they will fill simultaneously with three simer pumps from the same 1" input in 7 minutes 15 seconds. One bag by itself takes me 6 minutes 15 seconds. Theoretically the Simers should be able to fill a regular 600 lb fat sack, about 68 gallons in 6.8 minutes.

Theoretically my rear Pro-X sac should hold 100 gals completely full.....could be less or more I am not sure. I am definitely seeing considerable restriction at the quick connect which tapers down to almost 5/8" ID IIRC. I need to run the calcs again and double check exactly how much flow I am seeing at the quick connect vs the pump capacity. I might be able to speed things up considerably without adding another pump and just plumbing another quick connect into the bag with a T off the current fill/drain. Hmmm got me wondering now :confused:

P-hat_in_Cincy
01-31-2006, 06:07 PM
Hey all,
If you want to follow along, I'm keeping a running DIY thread of my ballast install on wakeboarder.com. The thread title is "MC Prostar 205V custom ballast install" and can be found using:

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=53991

Unfortunately, you have to be signed up in order to view the pictures in the DIY threads. It's free tho!

Edit: You can also follow it on WakeWorld. Same title and you don't have to be signed up to see it.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/281329.html?1138751576

Feel free to post question/comments/discussions here or there!

P

Footin
01-31-2006, 06:25 PM
Nice job P-hat.

Hoosier Bob
07-24-2006, 10:19 PM
These are stainless, look pretty cool, and are cheaper from what I remember. Could not get it to load!
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=9907&highlight=exhaust

MLD004
05-25-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm having a heck of a time finding transom water intakes
for a two pump system. I've seen people mention them...saw
pix of yours...have seen the mushroom style...yet when I search
for them.....no luck anywhere. Help? Ideally I'd like to find the mushroom style with the screens due to heavy weeds here, but any
help would be appreciated.

zman@airnautique.com

beatle78
05-25-2007, 10:02 PM
man Phat, you got guts.... you and ETAKK7 are an inspiration. And we all have the same boat :) :)

I plan on using a lot of your DIY threads when $$ allows me to put on the ballast system!!!

beatle78
05-25-2007, 10:03 PM
slight thread jack!

PHAT, what prop are you running to handle all that ballast?