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View Full Version : Monza vs. Goode


6ballsisall
01-28-2006, 04:24 PM
Monza vs. Goode is the question.

Whats the differences between the two skis? Please share personal experiences if you have them. I have a decision to make soon! :D

ski36short
01-28-2006, 05:12 PM
Well here's my :twocents: It seems to me that there are two types of slalom skiers: those that can make an HO work and those that can't. Well, maybe there's a third group, awesome skiers that can ski well on anything but I'm not in that group! Last year I was upgrading from my 9100 and tried a Monza - I think I gave it about 10 turns before calling it quits. It just plain didn't feel right. I ended up with a 9600 and I love it. My take is that they are all fast, stable skis across the wakes, the differences are in the pre-turn and turn. Goodes, D3s, and to a lesser degree the 6AM (which felt slightly HO-ish but not bad) settle in after the edge change and carve a nice turn whereas the HOs don't really carve, they just kinda turn back towards the boat in a yaw-type motion. I don't like how that feels. I would try both to see which one suits your style/preference better but if you're in Indiana and have to make the decision soon that might not be possible. YMMV, etc.

88 PS190
01-28-2006, 05:14 PM
Better question, what are you riding now.

jraben8
01-28-2006, 05:32 PM
I agree with ski36short, either you love HO or love something else. It's a feeling and either you get it or you dont. I know that I have said it before on here but I absolutely love my D3. HO just doesn't do it for me. They feel like work.

88 PS190
01-28-2006, 05:42 PM
I've just bought a goode 9200 LTD, i'm looking forwards to seeing how it rides. I've been on a mapple a bit, and liked its ride, hoping the goode also rides deep like it.

6ballsisall
01-28-2006, 07:43 PM
I just sold my Phantom Truth if that helps. Prior to that I had an Old Mach 1 which I enjoyed. The Phantom I just never felt confident on.

Hoosier Bob
01-28-2006, 08:15 PM
You can get a Mapple very reasonably right now. I don't think I will ever exceed it's capabilities and it is kind of amazing how it ski's. That being said I will ski anything and own an s-load of skis.
I just sold my Phantom Truth if that helps. Prior to that I had an Old Mach 1 which I enjoyed. The Phantom I just never felt confident on.

88 PS190
01-28-2006, 09:04 PM
I think the Mach 1 is a tunnel style ski, and the goode would ski better for you the truth is more of the current syndicate style.

Brent
01-28-2006, 09:17 PM
I've got a Monza & it has been the most difficult ski to set-up that I've ever owned ( Came from a 02 Phantom) . I did finally get it , but what pain to get there. If you can try skis before buying , that would be the best. Goode's are great skis , But I will not buy 1 until they start putting in inserts! :)

88 PS190
01-28-2006, 10:03 PM
yea inserts would be nice, you can put them in though. try jagersport.com they've got some information as far as how to do it.

Really just keep checking your screws to make sure they're firm, and they work out very well.

6ballsisall
01-28-2006, 11:15 PM
Keep the info and advice coming guys.

I am going to test a Monza and probably a Goode as well. What would the differences in performance be on the 9632 and the Monza?

east tx skier
01-28-2006, 11:24 PM
So from the comments, I gather that the new HOs are tailheavy like the old ones.

Before I got my old HO (my current ski), I was told that it wasn't something I could get used to if I was used to riding O'Briens and Connellys. (I was on an old O'Brien G2). With that advice, I went to a Mapple, but couldn't make it work for me. So I tried the CDX and loved it.

I think the advice is good above, you either love it or you don't.

skisix@38
01-29-2006, 08:07 AM
The Monza isn't tail heavy but the ski design is to turn on the tail. Most skiers dont' have the timing to be able to ride up on the front of the ski and then shift their weight back right when the pull comes on. If you are a skier that can do that then the Monza could be a great ride for you. The Monza gets cross course with out a lot of effort and sets up early for the next ball. For me though, that skis turning abilities dont' suit my style and I loose all that I gained by getting to the ball early. My style is more carving turns- not monzas strong suit.

I liked the 9700 and I thought that this ski performed closely to my Carbonworx. The 9700 carries a little more speed after the second wake and therfore doesn't settle in quite as nicely and takes a but more effort to get to turn back in the the Carbonworx but, it turns very nicely when I compared it to the Monza. I think both the Monza and the Goode are quick to cross course it just what style of turn suits you. The other thing I noted from riding both skis is that the Monza isn't very tolerant of choppy condition or rollers- I think that goes to my timing statement above.

You might also consider a D3 x5 or Carbonworx Outlaw in your selection. These are both highly capable skis a 75% of the cost of a Goode.

BrianM
01-29-2006, 09:19 AM
Here is my experience. I am currently on a '05 Monza and love the ski. Prior to the Monza I was on a KD 7000 and prior to that I was on an older HO. I rode my ski partners Goode 9100 a few times as well.

I would agree with almost everything that Skisix said above. The Monza definately doesn't make a carving turn like the Goode, KD/D3 and some of the others. More of a quick flick around the corner kind of on the tail (clear as mud). That being said it did not take me long to get used to the ski at all as I seem to have a tendancy to ride back a bit at the turn anyway.

As far as speed my Monza is noticbly faster than the 9100 that I rode but I did not ride a 9600 or 9700 so cant compare to either of those skis. Compared to the KD7000 I was on the Monza is like a rocket ship the KD like a P51.

Set up. I was able to get the Mona working for me easily. The fin is at the Rossi settings/ The only adjustment I had to make was moving the bindings back a bit as when I first mounted them they were a bit far forward causing the tip to bite way to hard in the turn.

Final thoughts. Another reason I didn't get more serious about the Goode is the whole no inserts and sometime suspect build quality. That combined with the high price just rubs me the wrong way. I'm very happy with my Monza but hink you shold give each a ride and see what you think.

6ballsisall
01-29-2006, 10:58 AM
Question about the insert comments. If I got the Goode I'd go with the Powershell bindings. Do you still need screw inserts for this? I am not familiar with how that plate mounts. Without the inserts are you saying it's a matter of time before the plate falls off for good?

88 PS190
01-29-2006, 11:29 AM
Powershells require the use of 3m dual lock, and do not use screws at all.

Powershell bindings work like this. Between the binding plate and the ski you apply a measured amount of dual lock. At the front and rear of the plate are two pieces w/ notches in them like a puzzle piece. When you fall hard enough the dual lock is seperated. And you go off. The puzzle pieces remain w/ the ski. Then when you get back onto the ski you press the dual locks together and hop on it and they engage w/ a snap. Amount of release tension is varied by cutting dual lock off, or adding more surface area, depending how the release felt.

Another binding system that works well with a goode are the Fluid Motion 66 bindings. If you order them equiped with the fmx plate option. Fluid motions are on two seperate plates, instead of one for both, meaning its easier to get around after you put your boots on, or after a fall (difference between climbing onto a swim platform w/ your locked together or seperate.) Additionally the FM system has a spring tension release made by voile in the rear. This release has a dial to set how much tension you desire. The optional FMX plate would be required if you wanted to use dual lock. The factory system is to install the release and front plate like a front and rear binding and they're seperate through the middle. With the FMX plate an aluminum plate runs the length of the bindings, and can have dual lock between it and the ski (use excess you don't want that coming off and sinking to the bottom.)

Either style would not require drilling.

W/o inserts binding screws back out over time and get loose, so its essential to keep an eye on them (as it is w/ all binding systems) but it is possible to strip a screw from a goode, though then you could install inserts (void warranty)

6ballsisall
01-29-2006, 04:21 PM
Anyone have a link to these Fluid Motion Bindings?

88 PS190
01-29-2006, 04:30 PM
www.jagersport.com

they're pretty sweet.

6ballsisall
01-29-2006, 04:47 PM
Thanks!

Wowsers!! They don't give those things away do they! :eek:

88 PS190
01-29-2006, 06:06 PM
No they do not. Goode powershells do cost less, but make sure to include the cost of liners for your boots in your estimates.

there's also www.reflexworld.com they sell ski tecs. You can order their product through www.schnitzskis.com or www.skibennetts.com

its just another idea.

ski36short
01-29-2006, 07:10 PM
I use the Jager bindings. I had a single-plate system but last fall I bought Jamie's Carbon66 system & FMX plate that I'm going to use this year. Before that I was on powershells. While I had the amount of velcro right, after a few releases the holding power starts to go away and you have to replace it which is about annually. It's a major PITA too. The two reasons I went from that to the FM system is a) Goode moved out of town to UT and b) the last batch of Interloc I got was the wrong strength and the ski came off several times. That really spooked me.

Oh and Paul's inserts do work well in Goode's. I've put them in my two skis and at least one other for a guy in my club. While it's a little scary putting the Dewalt to a $1000 ski, they turn out well. It's not rocket science, if you follow Paul's directions, are careful and good with basic tools, you can have a Goode with inserts in a few hours.

88 PS190
01-29-2006, 07:27 PM
I like the way that jager doubles come up at both ankles when you go off, its alot more natural than both coming up on a single plate. And its a ton easier to move around a boat.

BrianM
01-29-2006, 11:21 PM
Thanks!

Wowsers!! They don't give those things away do they! :eek:

I ride the Fluid Motions as well and love them. You can save some coin by getting a set of demos that may have been ridden a few times. That is what I did and saved over $150

6ballsisall
01-29-2006, 11:49 PM
No they do not. Goode powershells do cost less, but make sure to include the cost of liners for your boots in your estimates.

there's also www.reflexworld.com they sell ski tecs. You can order their product through www.schnitzskis.com or www.skibennetts.com

its just another idea.

The Powershells dont include the price of liners?

crdickey
01-30-2006, 12:07 AM
The Powershells dont include the price of liners?

They are priced with the standard liner, kinda like off the shelf roller blade liners. The Heat Moldable liners are extra and well worth the money. Same liner Jager has in his boots Carbon 66. He makes them for Goode.

I ride a Monza with Powershells and love them both. I have the heat moldable liners, they are worth the extra coin.

shepherd
02-01-2006, 11:27 PM
I had an experienced tournament-level skier tell me that I should worry more about setting up my current ski than buying a new one, since 90% of the ski's characteristics are in the set-up. He said that buying a new ski would just be a waste of money.

From the discussions here about the different ski models, I take it you guys don't agree???? :confused:

88 PS190
02-02-2006, 01:16 AM
and 95% of bowling is personal skill, but have you ever seen a guy have his ball worked over and then throw a much better game.

there's some mental, there's some equipment, and there's alot of making something work for you. I'll agree that set up is very very important, and should be worked on frequently, that said depending on how you ski, a different ski might make a huge difference.

might make none at all.

jake
02-02-2006, 08:13 AM
I had an experienced tournament-level skier tell me that I should worry more about setting up my current ski than buying a new one, since 90% of the ski's characteristics are in the set-up. He said that buying a new ski would just be a waste of money.

From the discussions here about the different ski models, I take it you guys don't agree???? :confused:

I agree with this in spirit, but also think the average skier can gain benefits from a new ski if they are currently skiing on something that is significantly outdated. Let's equate it to golf. It's a lot like an average 18 handicap golfer who is hitting an old steel wood driver. That guy is going to realize considerable benefits by going to a modern over sized driver because of the bigger sweet spot and more forgiving nature of the club. Now, does it matter which modern driver they pick? Maybe, but marginally. The biggest benefit is from the nature of the technology, not the nuanced differences in implementation from one manufacturer to the next.

For a scratch golfer, those nuances matter a whole lot more.

Most of us here on the board are a whole lot more like the 18 handicapper than the scratch golfer. If you're on a ski that is one or two generations old in terms of technology, then there are probably benefits to updating, but then spending your time on tuning/setup and your skiing ability.

If you're on a Goode...probably not a big benefit to switching to a Monza.

jimmer2880
02-02-2006, 11:49 AM
I generally agree with this, but the average skier can gain benefits from a new ski. Let's equate it to golf. It's a lot like an average 18 handicap golfer who is hitting an old steel wood driver. That guy is going to realize considerable benefits by going to a modern over sized driver because of the bigger sweet spot and more forgiving nature of the club. Now, does it matter which modern driver they pick? Maybe, but marginally. The biggest benefit is from the nature of the technology, not the nuanced differences in implementation from one manufacturer to the next.

For a scratch golfer, those nuances matter a whole lot more.

Most of us here on the board are a whole lot more like the 18 handicapper than the scratch golfer. If you're on a ski that is one or two generations old in terms of technology, then there are probably benefits to updating, but then spending your time on tuning/setup and your skiing ability.

If you're on a Goode...probably not a big benefit to switching to a Monza.

I'm with you there. I teach snow skiing for many many years now. I still get folks on old "straight" skiis that say "This ski used to be used on the world cup circuit. I'm not there, so I don't need the new technology". But, the new "shaped" skiis will bring everyone who rides on them (from never-ever to advanced expert) who also takes a lesson from a certified instructor to a whole new plateau much much quicker than if they were still on their 10-20 year old skiis.

shepherd
02-02-2006, 01:09 PM
Very good points guys. Maybe I'll start shopping for a new ski to replace my 7 year old KD 7000.

So, which is better, the Monza or the Goode??? :D

ski36short
02-02-2006, 02:55 PM
I had an experienced tournament-level skier tell me that I should worry more about setting up my current ski than buying a new one, since 90% of the ski's characteristics are in the set-up. He said that buying a new ski would just be a waste of money.

From the discussions here about the different ski models, I take it you guys don't agree???? :confused:

Depends on the ski. Some skis (Goodes in particular) have a very small set-up "sweet spot" that once you found it, changed the ski incredibly. Others (my 1999 KD7000 comes to mind) you can set it up any way you want and it skied the same. Then there's the difference in water but we don't need to go there...

ilikeitglacy
02-08-2006, 09:20 PM
What is that dual lock thing?

88 PS190
02-09-2006, 12:56 AM
Dual Lock is a product made by 3M. Its a series of mushroom shaped pins kinda like super velcro. Only instead of hook and loop it more snaps together.

Depending on surface area it has a fairly consistant release strength proportionate to its area. Although its strength changes everytime it is pulled apart and squeezed together again. Which can be a pain, and expensive it takes 50+ dollars to attach, and then costs the same to replace.

not that it isn't a good system. it is super easy to adjust your foot spacing and rotation, even canting the bindings. the jagers are hard to do that with but can be set up exactly how you want them from the factory, and do have some velcro on them, but the velcro is just there for neutral tension. so you can hop in the water w/o your bindings lifting in the middle.

Brent
02-10-2006, 04:48 PM
last years stock
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