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TMCNo1
01-24-2006, 10:51 AM
Her we go again, now DaimlerChrysler in on the fat cutting bandwagon! :eek:

milkmania
01-24-2006, 11:03 AM
got a link?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-24-2006, 12:51 PM
I saw it on CNN.com :(

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 12:59 PM
I guess that covers "The Big 3"

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 01:01 PM
Here is a link to what they are calling a "New Management Model." This is straight from their website, so of course they don't talk about all the jobs being lost.

http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-7145-1-583496-1-0-0-0-0-0-243-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html

6ballsisall
01-24-2006, 01:27 PM
You know it's easy to criticize and critique a company when they make mistakes and their business is down but I can't help think that their new "managment focus" is

A. About 5 years behind the powercurve
B. They need to re-read the book "Good to great" by Jim Collins, it's not about products, it's about the right people on the bus in the right seats.
C. Referring back to B, if the right people were in the rights seats on their "bus" pridictament A wouldn't have happened and they wouldn't be in the bigger pridictament they are in today.
D. The management focus is all based on producing great new innovative products and doesn't talk about developing the people they have that will produce the great products they now want to build. I'd bet my farm as long as they continue to use this management focus they'll be in a very similar financial position they are today. I wonder when they'll drop the ego's and start wondering how the import manufacturers are doing it and financially succesful.

But hey, what do I know :rolleyes:

Off soapbox now

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-24-2006, 01:34 PM
Jr, your legs must be in good shape from getting up and down on that soap box. :D

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 02:06 PM
You know it's easy to criticize and critique a company when they make mistakes and their business is down but I can't help think that their new "managment focus" is

A. About 5 years behind the powercurve
B. They need to re-read the book "Good to great" by Jim Collins, it's not about products, it's about the right people on the bus in the right seats.
C. Referring back to B, if the right people were in the rights seats on their "bus" pridictament A wouldn't have happened and they wouldn't be in the bigger pridictament they are in today.
D. The management focus is all based on producing great new innovative products and doesn't talk about developing the people they have that will produce the great products they now want to build. I'd bet my farm as long as they continue to use this management focus they'll be in a very similar financial position they are today. I wonder when they'll drop the ego's and start wondering how the import manufacturers are doing it and financially succesful.

But hey, what do I know :rolleyes:

Off soapbox now

Explain to me what you mean by "powercurve". As for step #2 - WRONG - it's ALL about the product and the end consumers' confidence: both in the actual product and in the customer service when the product is flawed. If it weren't about the product; product reviews would not exist.

As for step 3: there's no such thing as a PRIDICTAMENT, it's PREDICAMENT.

Cloaked
01-24-2006, 02:11 PM
Explain to me "powercurve". As for step #2 - WRONG - it's ALL about the product and the end consumers' confidence: both in the actual product and in the customer service when the product is flawed. If it weren't about the product; product reviews would not exist.

As for step 3: there's no such thing as a PRIDICTAMENT, it's PREDICAMENT.
Read JR's sig line... He's all about Chrysler... :uglyhamme :firejump:

All about drop-kicking them... LOL......

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 02:13 PM
Read JR's sig line... He's all about Chrysler... :uglyhamme :firejump:

All about drop-kicking them... LOL......

Didn't realize this was personal. Sorry.

Cloaked
01-24-2006, 02:22 PM
Didn't realize this was personal. Sorry.Please do not take it as such. All I was saying is that JR's on a roll... :D :D

It's all good!! :wavey:

6ballsisall
01-24-2006, 02:33 PM
Explain to me what you mean by "powercurve". As for step #2 - WRONG - it's ALL about the product and the end consumers' confidence: both in the actual product and in the customer service when the product is flawed. If it weren't about the product; product reviews would not exist.

As for step 3: there's no such thing as a PRIDICTAMENT, it's PREDICAMENT.


Powercurve- I.E. a movement or shifting of the business which occurred many years ago and they being DC and the Big 3 didnt move with it.

#2- Guess who develops the products which are suppose to be innovative. OH!!! People do!!! Who gets the ideas from the public on what they want in a car??? Marketing PEOPLE do! To confirm that its about people, ask anyone in sales what closes the deal, it's not the bottomline and it's not the product, it's the person they are buying from........It's always all about the right people.

I'll debate this as long as you want Jay, there is no irony in the position all Big 3 are in. Had they took a look earlier in the game at what the successful businesses in there sector are doing differently perhaps they wouldn't be in the situation they are in.

Thanks for the spelling lesson. ;)

My remarks aren't personal either yet objective observations I'd make on a thread about any of the Big 3 who are financially on the rocks.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-24-2006, 03:29 PM
I'm sure multiple lawsuits aren't helping any of their situations......;) J/K JR.

6ballsisall
01-24-2006, 03:39 PM
I'm sure multiple lawsuits aren't helping any of their situations......;) J/K JR.

:D My lawsuit against them is a mere pittance in the scheme of things.

Maybe their PEOPLE will design and build a better Durango and they can avoid the lawsuits :rolleyes:

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 03:42 PM
Powercurve- I.E. a movement or shifting of the business which occurred many years ago and they being DC and the Big 3 didnt move with it.

#2- Guess who develops the products which are suppose to be innovative. OH!!! People do!!! Who gets the ideas from the public on what they want in a car??? Marketing PEOPLE do! To confirm that its about people, ask anyone in sales what closes the deal, it's not the bottomline and it's not the product, it's the person they are buying from........It's always all about the right people.

I'll debate this as long as you want Jay, there is no irony in the position all Big 3 are in. Had they took a look earlier in the game at what the successful businesses in there sector are doing differently perhaps they wouldn't be in the situation they are in.

Thanks for the spelling lesson. ;)

My remarks aren't personal either yet objective observations I'd make on a thread about any of the Big 3 who are financially on the rocks.

Are the Big 3 behind the times? sure they are; hence the change. The more watered down the market becomes with competition, (I.E. Full size SUV and Pick-Up models being offered by foreign manufacturers) the smaller a company's share of the market becomes. That's diversity in the marketplace. Show me a company who has no competition and I'll show you a Monopoly. (Microsoft)

As for your "people theory"; I agree to a certain extent. Yes, people create the end product. Yes, people research and market the ideas that eventually become the product. The part that I disagree with, "A good salesman can slap a label and a guarantee on a box of crap and sell it." That is essentially the message you are sending with your response. No salesperson will EVER affect the quality of a product or service. EX: Potential customers are not attracted to MasterCraft because of their sales force. They are buying the PRODUCT and the QUALITY and REPUTATION of that PRODUCT.

It takes good people to make a good company; it takes good people with a good product to make a GREAT company.

P.S. I am in no way defending the BIG 3 - but I am questioning your solutions and theories as to their way of business.

6ballsisall
01-24-2006, 04:00 PM
I have now checked numerous business term websites for the term "powercurve" -- No results found anywhere. Check for youself. The actual term threw me off, but I understand your use of it.

Are the Big 3 behind the times? sure they are; hence the change. The more watered down the market becomes with competition, (I.E. Full size SUV and Pick-Up models being offered by foreign manufacturers) the smaller a company's share of the market becomes. That's diversity in the marketplace. Show me a company who has no competition and I'll show you a Monopoly. (Microsoft)

As for your "people theory"; I agree to a certain extent. Yes, people create the end product. Yes, people research and market the ideas that eventually become the product. The part that I disagree with, "A good salesman can slap a label and a guarantee on a box of crap and sell it." That is essentially the message you are sending with your response. No salesperson will EVER affect the quality of a product or service. EX: Potential customers are not attracted to MasterCraft because of their sales force. They are buying the PRODUCT and the QUALITY and REPUTATION of that PRODUCT.

It takes good people to make a good company; it takes good people with a good product to make a GREAT company.

P.S. I am in no way defending the BIG 3 - but I am questioning your solutions and theories as to their way of business.


A. I never said you'd find the term powercurve in a dictionary or a college text book. However, it's not a "made up " word.

I never stated nor intended to state a good salesperson could slap a sticker on it and sell crap. My point in ALL the comments is after reading thru all the blah blah blah about what DC says they are going to do it never talked about anything other than financial shifts and developing good products.

The point is what seperates good companies from great companies is they know what their strengths and weaknesses are, their executives stay close to the business, know what the competition and the business is doing, know the strength in their people and utilize those strengths, identify ways to decrease or develop upon their people and company risks and weaknesses, always remain entreprenurial (feel free to correct my spelling) Do so research and study on businesses that by all aspects of business became great businesses, they got that way by doing these things.

The businesses that don't take it to the next level aren't the ones that solely rely on analytics, big sales promotions/discounts, and leadership styles that contradict the above paragraph. Do your research, I guarantee if you do the end results will speak for themselves.

Disclaimer to all statements made by me related to this topic:

I don't claim to have all the answers and I know I don't. None of us do. The fact of the matter is the Big 3 are in a predictament and NO ONE put them there but themselves. The Japanese car manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank during this. Why are the laughing on the way to the bank? Because they followed the business values that they KNEW would take their business to the next level.

My Motive to posts: I have no vested interest in the success or failure of any of the Big 3 contrary to common belief. Really, I don't care OTHER than the fact that how it affects the working man and woman. It sucks the working class who invested their lifes into the Big 3 will be hurt most. Executives will probably land on their feet even if they fall but those with less education and skill will be harder pressed in this scenario. Lastly, my motive to invest my time on this is that I am sick and tired of the "poor Big 3" you hear in the media. Again, they are there for a reason, whether they learn and grow from it is there choice.

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 04:22 PM
I found Power-Curve posted all over the place with a little more digging - STUPID ME!!! I also edited my original post to withdraw that portion.

I agree with you about Senior Level management and staying close to the organization. Failure is inevitable if that does not happen; which the Big 3 have proven in some way. A large portion of GM's problems lies with the retirement packages they agreed to years ago. They are supporting 1.5 retired employees for every 1 current employee; and treating the retirees quite well I might add - GM's in house screw-up.

This last portion is a product of 2 years of being an English major: One more spelling lesson if you don't mind - it's not "predictament" it's predicament.

No hard feelings.

jayocheskey
01-24-2006, 04:42 PM
This is my opinion:
With everything from toys to automobiles being made in Japan - we know their labor costs are far cheaper than the USA's. If that aspect of their business is in some way contributing to their present success - shame on them and anyone who will support their business by purchasing their products. I'd rather pay a little extra and keep my neighbor employed than contribute to overseas "sweatshops" that we all know exist.

I have stated before, and say again - I have always and always will drive a GM product.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-24-2006, 04:56 PM
JR, your forgetting to get up on the soap box before your speeches!!! :noface: not good ranting etiquette

Come on, your making very good points in your debate, you should be using the soap box. dont forget to get up on it, and back down when you post :D

6ballsisall
01-24-2006, 05:15 PM
JR, your forgetting to get up on the soap box before your speeches!!! :noface: not good ranting etiquette

Come on, your making very good points in your debate, you should be using the soap box. dont forget to get up on it, and back down when you post :D

no problem UMP i will keep it in mind ;)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-24-2006, 05:19 PM
Cool. :D Go on with your bad self JR! Your should be a professional debater, or a specialist in arguements. your pretty well spoke there JR. :toast:

6ballsisall
01-24-2006, 05:23 PM
Your should be a professional debater, or a specialist in arguements. your pretty well spoke there JR. :toast:

my wife says the same thing about debating and arguements. maybe there is a theme there?
thought about being attorney earlier in life but the law is to crooked. (no offense Easty)

gotta run, flight attendant just scolded me.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-24-2006, 05:37 PM
no problem UMP i will keep it in mind ;)
Better post that in the suggestions forum, Smilie getting on and off soapbox. T/J end.

jayocheskey
01-25-2006, 02:34 AM
If you ever do become a "debator" or "argument specialist", maybe you could employ me as your vocabulary coach???? We have to rid your vocab of the term predictament. Sorry, that's just me picking again.

jayocheskey
01-25-2006, 01:25 PM
2006, 10:37 AM
LakePirate
MC Devotee Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macon, Ga
Posts: 1,227


19% jump in profitibility, 4th year in the black. However, they say that north america division is losing money.

They are closing the Atlanta plant, that means both the GM and Ford plants in Atlanta are closing. Super.
__________________


I found this post in the "Ford cuts jobs" thread. If this statement is accurate, then Ford as a whole is not in a predicament; just their North America division. I guess they are doing quite well in other areas. A 19% jump in profitability is good for any company.

6ballsisall
01-25-2006, 03:00 PM
If you ever do become a "debator" or "argument specialist", maybe you could employ me as your vocabulary coach???? We have to rid your vocab of the term predictament. Sorry, that's just me picking again.


I'll keep it in mind Jay :D Funny thing is I always won the spelling bees in school and my mom has her Masters in English. Guess I've gotten lazy with my typing skillz on here :cool:

jayocheskey
01-25-2006, 04:38 PM
I'll keep it in mind Jay :D Funny thing is I always won the spelling bees in school and my mom has her Masters in English. Guess I've gotten lazy with my typing skillz on here :cool:
Dang, I guess you would probably hire immediate family first. Your wife and UMP are right though - you would have a bright future in debate. It's never too late to go to law school.

stevo137
01-25-2006, 07:21 PM
Recalls sure don't help matters. I just received a recall for my Magnum.
It has been a very good car so far though.
Just hit over 30,000 miles.

Footin
01-25-2006, 07:42 PM
My 300 has been in the shop for warrentee repairs 4 times, all bigger ticket items: Axle shaft, oxygen sensor, new wheels (peeling chrome), transmisson modulator. This cannot help the financials.

Leroy
01-25-2006, 08:11 PM
The big 3 just seem out of touch, I really don't understand it. I think it is management's fault, I don't think the designers or factory workers are any better/worse.



I think all of my Honda's were many in USA.

6ballsisall
01-25-2006, 08:19 PM
[QUOTE=Leroy]The big 3 just seem out of touch, I really don't understand it. I think it is management's fault, I don't think the designers or factory workers are any better/worse.
QUOTE]

TRU DAT!!!!!


What they h##l were they thinking with the massive, no check that, stupidly massive discounts they have offered on new cars the last 4 or so years???? Every consultant and advisor to the industry predicted what was going to be the mid-term outcome of such promotions and guess what..........ITS HAPPENING!!

I just feel for the working people for those manufacturers. I wonder how few saw where it was going and starting stashing cash and networking out for future income opportunities for their families.

Diesel
01-26-2006, 11:50 AM
Wow, a lot of assumptions and misinformation in this thread. :)

You guys are all pointing out symptoms of a very complex multifaceted problem that will require a major paradigm shift in company culture before anything changes. It will get worse before it gets better for the big three and they will probably have to hit rock bottom (bankruptcy) before they do change. Even if they recognize the need it will still take time to transform the monsters.

Once it is all said and done and if all 3 do survive we will see a return to the glory days for the big 3. I do believe business in general is cyclical and we will see the pendulum swing back again.

No doubt the next 2-7 year will be very volatile/opportunistic in the automotive OE industry.

Oh, in this business PRODUCT is key and the ultimate driver of success. Good people are ineffective if you do not have a company culture that is centered around this ideal and are blocked by an ancient bureaucratic red tape monster. This is one reason the "imports" are able to retain better people while paying them less while expecting(and receiving) higher productivity. This is true from senior management right down through assembly line workers.

Read up on GE, they were in a very similar situation before Jack Welsh took over, very bureaucratic, very slow, and very set in their ways.

jayocheskey
01-26-2006, 01:26 PM
Wow, a lot of assumptions and misinformation in this thread. :)

You guys are all pointing out symptoms of a very complex multifaceted problem that will require a major paradigm shift in company culture before anything changes. It will get worse before it gets better for the big three and they will probably have to hit rock bottom (bankruptcy) before they do change. Even if they recognize the need it will still take time to transform the monsters.

Once it is all said and done and if all 3 do survive we will see a return to the glory days for the big 3. I do believe business in general is cyclical and we will see the pendulum swing back again.

No doubt the next 2-7 year will be very volatile/opportunistic in the automotive OE industry.

Oh, in this business PRODUCT is key and the ultimate driver of success. Good people are ineffective if you do not have a company culture that is centered around this ideal and are blocked by an ancient bureaucratic red tape monster. This is one reason the "imports" are able to retain better people while paying them less while expecting(and receiving) higher productivity. This is true from senior management right down through assembly line workers.

Read up on GE, they were in a very similar situation before Jack Welsh took over, very bureaucratic, very slow, and very set in their ways.

That sounds like it came straight from the Wall Street Journal. Please enlighten me as to GE's "recover process". How long has it taken to get them headed back in the right direction? What kinds of changes did they have to make?

You also confirmed my original opinion about the PRODUCT being key.

As for the Big 3 filing for bankruptcy - good guess, but probably not. They have already implemented phase 1 of their long healing process.

Diesel
01-26-2006, 02:24 PM
That sounds like it came straight from the Wall Street Journal. Please enlighten me as to GE's "recover process". How long has it taken to get them headed back in the right direction? What kinds of changes did they have to make?.

I'll take the WSJ comment as a compliment, thanks :D

As far a GE's recovery process Jack wrote a 500 page book on it and that was why I suggested reading it. I doubt I could (nor want to or do the book any justice) summarize it on here but .................the economic factors and stagnant product development brought on by its bureaucratic complexity are very very similar to the situation the big 3 are facing. Until the day Jack left he was still struggling with bureaucratic inefficiencies despite completely changing the corporate culture. He brought a fresh dose of common sense to the picture and refocused the organization on the customer/consumer as opposed to its arrogant self. It takes a very strong leader and usually a very real state of emergency that is felt at all levels of the organization for it to really change in the long run.


As for the Big 3 filing for bankruptcy - good guess, but probably not. They have already implemented phase 1 of their long healing process

I guarantee you one of them if not all will file a restructure chapter of bankruptcy. They will have no choice especially if one files the others are most likely going to have to file to remain competitive. Their business practices are catching up with them and they will have to pay the price. When this happens and to what extent I do not know but I believe it will happen in the next 5 years.

All IMHO