PDA

View Full Version : increasing tournament waterskiing exposure


rodltg2
01-16-2006, 12:55 AM
so i was a kings basketball tonight and got to thinking. these pro atheletes get so mush more exposure, respect, money and so on than pro waterskiers do. how can we improve exposure to this sport. i thought of this idea while there which of course could use improvement but it could be a start.....


instead of pro tournaments being an individual sport , why dont they make it a team sport like tournament waterskiing in college. there could be a group of skiers from the city that supports the team that competes in all events. each team can have a lake lined with stands where they sell ; beer, cotton candy, pizza etc. play exciting music during runs and have stunt shows in between events. wouldnt be cool to hear someone say " i got season tickets at 3 ball"

skiers could be traded like other professinall sports. so if you need a better jumper or whatever you trade him for another .

jayocheskey
01-16-2006, 01:02 AM
While I agree with you and wish that these athletes could be more exposed. It will never happen until it is what the majority of TV viewing and consuming Americans demand. The only reason that a professional, baseball, football, hockey or basketball athlete gets paid so much is because there are millions of Americans who are willing to pay $75 for a ticket, $120 for a jersey or $5 for a baseball card. The "mainstream" athletes play in the major sports that Americans "need."

The same thing happens in college. You never hear about the University ski competitions, but college football and March Madness rule because of the ratings they achieve for the big-time networks.

I wish It could be so, but probably never will.

redmike
01-16-2006, 01:07 AM
besides rod, if that happened, and all of the "new" people had to try and run the course, how would you get any good water?......

PendO
01-16-2006, 01:29 AM
besides rod, if that happened, and all of the "new" people had to try and run the course, how would you get any good water?......

His lake is private .... imagine if all the good golf courses were "private" who would watch?

Until there are readily available (i.e. never) courses it is a non issue ... wakeboarding is appealing b/c you don't need a private lake with a slalom course ... wakeboarding is where the money is at. Its the same for professional snow skiers (racers) ... snowboarders can make a lot more jack off endorsements, and it is a cheaper less exclusive sport ... try rasing a ski racer, costs even more than hockey from what my buddy tells me.

jkski
01-16-2006, 07:20 AM
I couldn't agree more... think of this...... to wakeboard and to advance at that sport, all you really need is a board, a big wake, skills and a large open body of water. You don't need any special fixed items in the water, which makes it soo huge on public waterways. Now then, take slalom... you've got to have the bouys to advance, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
The other thing is this, wakeboarding, although I do not do it, is considered "cool" and "extreme" to some extent, because there is the element of danger with great crashes. So, if it is danger you want, how about putting a radar gun in the boat and clocking a slalom skier as they pull through the wakes at 3G's!!! Just like at a baseball game, aren't you always impressed when you look at the board and see how fast that last pitch was...SPEED IS EXTREME!

BriEOD
01-16-2006, 08:49 AM
how can we improve exposure to this sport.
I believe from what I've read Andy Mapple and other pros are already working on this. That's why you saw them at the Daytona 500 last year and in NYC. Their goal is to promote the sport. Their was a good article about it in WaterSki Mag last year.

Ric
01-16-2006, 08:59 AM
I like it
Who would have thought we'd have team competition hunting shows or lazyazz poker games on tv?
If team skiing is what it takes to promote the sport, then I say go for it. This could of course, lead to an open class of individual superstars skiing head to head for championships..... wait, we already have that..... shhhh don't tell anyone, we'll suprise them with it as a bonus once television buys into the drama and human interest of the team thing.

jkski
01-16-2006, 09:08 AM
I hate to burst anyone's excitement, however, a few months back, Andy Mapple stepped down from WWSP (the organziation handling the tournaments), and a lot of people have been wondering what is going to happen. Over the weekend, I talked to the gentlemen that hosted the 2004 MasterCraft Pro at his lake in Norton, Ohio, and he was very interested in hosting it again, however, he has made several calls to the organization and their reponse has been that they are unsure about the future.
Hope things get worked out quickly.

twieder
01-16-2006, 09:16 AM
So whats next, figure skating? Fox seems to think so With that stupid skating with the stars bit. Look at NASCAR 15 years ago to now. If people go to the shows, tv will pick it up exposing more people to that sport. I'd rather keep boarding, skiing ,etc to ourselves for now.It'll be our little secret.
Besides if it went mainstreem, just think how crowded your favorite spot would get! JMO :twocents:

Cloaked
01-16-2006, 09:36 AM
....... Look at NASCAR 15 years ago to now. ...
It was much much better then and has suffered from commercial exposure.

I have been a NASCAR fan for many years. NASCAR sucks today.

twieder
01-16-2006, 09:42 AM
NASCAR sucks today.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% NASCAR aint what it used to be not even close!
Kinda my concern with water sports in general.
Could you immagine another 50 boats a day on the water with inexpieranced drivers cause their kid hasta learn to board,ski, or what to be like his hero soandso.

Skeerz me!

ecelis
01-16-2006, 12:40 PM
One remark on the "for wakeboarding all you need is a boat and a board" topic.
This used to be true before they started doing the slider stuff in competition. If you want to compete a a higher level now you need access to sliders.
If you think it is hard to put in/keep up a slalom course on a public lake, try to put up any kind of slider... Even on most private lakes it is not accepted.

PendO
01-16-2006, 12:43 PM
One remark on the "for wakeboarding all you need is a boat and a board" topic.
This used to be true before they started doing the slider stuff in competition. If you want to compete a a higher level now you need access to sliders.
If you think it is hard to put in/keep up a slalom course on a public lake, try to put up any kind of slider... Even on most private lakes it is not accepted.

something about running in to a fixed object ... sends insurance companies the other way:)

AirJunky
01-16-2006, 12:52 PM
something about running in to a fixed object ... sends insurance companies the other way:)Which is too bad. They might help weed out the Darwin award winners we seem to see out there so often. :headbang:

Leroy
01-16-2006, 12:58 PM
I think if water skiing was promoted more it might take pressure of the lakes. First there would be more people doing it, there would be more private lakes and pay for ski lakes. The time on those lakes would be organized very well (hopefully public lakes improve also).


As far as sliders go, ever snowboard, look at the snowboard parks and the snowboard shows? I don't think the liability is much different, but everyone is afraid to carry the flag. Analogy to snowmobiles and the broken leg sled, we just need a jet ski with a floating sled to pull the carnage away!:D

rodltg2
01-16-2006, 01:08 PM
if this "team" idea were to work , they would have to have there own site to pracice and hold tournaments at. not clogg up existising sites. wakeboarding should be included too like the malibu open was in bel aqua. it shoul;d be 5 event. slalom, jump, trick, barefoot and wake. rememebr your 197's are 5 event approved.

Farmer Ted
01-16-2006, 01:42 PM
- comp boats cost too much
- waterskiing is difficult to master
- most, repeat most, people who run waterski clubs won't give you the time of day unless you can run 28' off
- if you can find a club that will give you the time of day, it costs an arm and a leg to become affiliated

I think that wakeboarding/snowboarding are similar enough that the Spicoli's just move from the water to the snow when the weather dictates it's time to do so, Dude.
Pretty easy to cross over from one to the other.

What do you do when it's too cold to slalom? Slalom snow ski? No as close to the water although I hear that many of the techniques are the same or ones slalom can benefit from snow skiing.

I also think it's also easier to wakerboard behind a Bayliner than it is to slalom behind one, are you going to get the same level of pull? No but better than trying to run a course.

It would be great to see the Big 3 (MC, CC, Malibu) mass produce a budget no frills boat under $20,000 even if it meant giving it another name like Supra/Moomba how do you make the sport of waterskiing more appealing to the masses? Fatter skis? Narrower courses? Maybe the NSL should have a NSL course that's 75% of a real course.

Until someone can figure out a way to decrease the pretentiousness
amongst the masses who control this sport don't expect anything to change.

Farmer Ted
01-16-2006, 01:47 PM
if this "team" idea were to work , they would have to have there own site to pracice and hold tournaments at. not clogg up existising sites. wakeboarding should be included too like the malibu open was in bel aqua. it shoul;d be 5 event. slalom, jump, trick, barefoot and wake. rememebr your 197's are 5 event approved.


The team idea is intersting, but I doubt there is enough momentum to get real sponsorship. Plus in a way the teams already exist with the Sponsored riders.

Maybe there needs an event at tournaments that each manufacturer's team competes for at the end for the best 3 event score, MC sends Wade Cox for slalom, Freddy Krueger for Jump, and Regina Jacques for tricks versus who ever CC, Malibu, Tige and Supra sponsors.

All the riders compete in idividual events then collectively at the end for their team.

rodltg2
01-16-2006, 01:49 PM
although i agree with you farmer , my idea to increase exposure is more aimed to increase attendance at tournaments , not get more people out on public waters. we need to get the people already skiing and wakeobarding involved.

rodltg2
01-16-2006, 01:50 PM
The team idea is intersting, but I doubt there is enough momentum to get real sponsorship. Plus in a way the teams already exist with the Sponsored riders.

Maybe there needs an event at tournaments that each manufacturer's team competes for at the end for the best 3 event score, MC sends Wade Cox for slalom, Freddy Krueger for Jump, and Regina Jacques for tricks versus who ever CC, Malibu, Tige and Supra sponsors.

All the riders compete in idividual events then collectively at the end for their team.


thats a great idea too.

Farmer Ted
01-16-2006, 01:52 PM
although i agree with you farmer , my idea to increase exposure is more aimed to increase attendance at tournaments , not get more people out on public waters. we need to get the people already skiing and wakeobarding involved.


well think about it, the people who go to Pro sports are living vicariously through the pro athletes. I'd think it's safe to say that most people who attend the sport play (or played) it on some level at one point in their life.

Get more people skiing, get more people going to see pros ski?

Why else would anyone go to a cricket match? For the chicks?

rodltg2
01-16-2006, 01:59 PM
no theres another idea, get some hot cheerleaders, bikini contests. etc..

" team mc is coming into town , they got hot cheerleaders , lets go the the tournament"

Ric
01-16-2006, 02:04 PM
well think about it, the people who go to Pro sports are living vicariously through the pro athletes. I'd think it's safe to say that most people who attend the sport play (or played) it on some level at one point in their life.

Get more people skiing, get more people going to see pros ski?

Why else would anyone go to a cricket match? For the chicks?
well there are a helluvalot of women fans of nfl and ncaa football and there are a helluvalot of women nascar fans
(all of them are due to the extensive media coverage in my opinion)
which comes first?

Farmer Ted
01-16-2006, 02:08 PM
well there are a helluvalot of women fans of nfl and ncaa football and there are a helluvalot of women nascar fans
(all of them are due to the extensive media coverage in my opinion)
which comes first?

Good point, how do you get the girls to the tournaments? Have girl stuff for them to do when they get bored watching the events?


Maybe some of it is this....
Football, women see men in tight pants
NASCAR, women see men who are renegades and need fixing, again they get to live vicariously through the athletes they are watching.

We need Betsy to pipe in here? I think her view point would be interesting.

Ric
01-16-2006, 02:11 PM
Good point, how do you get the girls to the tournaments? Have girl stuff for them to do when they get bored watching the events?


Maybe some of it is this....
Football, women see men in tight pants
NASCAR, women see men who are renegades and need fixing, again they get to live vicariously through the athletes they are watching.

We need Betsy to pipe in here? I think her view point would be interesting.

cmon ladies, we have men in shorts!

WakeSeeky
01-16-2006, 04:31 PM
Well, I'm sure I don't speak for all the ladies, but until Besty gets here...

I like sports because, well, I like sports. I think you either do or don't, although you can learn to appreciate a sport if you're so inclined. I'd rather go to events than watch on TV, and I can't imagine paying to attend an event, then getting bored and looking for something else to do. Why pay for the ticket in the first place? Then again, I'll sure watch on TV when I can't go. Heck, we hooked up Sirius on the boat primarily so we could get football on the lake, so I'm probably not representative.

Would I go to a slalom tournament? You bet... but I grew up around boats & skiing. I don't think I would be as interested if I didn't have some idea of how much skill that really takes. Shorts aside, of course. ;)

TonyB
01-26-2006, 10:46 AM
Sadly, interest in tournament (3 event) skiing is declining each and every year and will eventually, IMO, disappear completely. I put almost all of the blame on the move and emphasis towards private ski lakes.

I grew up on Shoals Creek (a major tributary to the TN.River). As a kid I was enthralled by the site of a skilled slalom skier (big spray, radical cuts, speed, incredible body lean, etc). I gravitated towards that sport quite naturally. All my buddies had boats and we would ski just about every day during the warm seasons. We put out practice courses and I eventually started skiing competitively. I started attending ski tournaments -- almost all of them on public waters. I eventually began to enter tournaments and compete. There was a tournament every year at Estill Springs in TN, Logan Martin in Central AL, the Mobile club tournament was on public water, and there were many others.

I eventually formed an AWSA affiliated ski club (Shoals Ski Club) and we put out slalom courses and a jump (on public waters). We sponsored yearly tournaments at Joe Wheeler Resort (on public waters). The exposure of water skiing to the public was prevalent (if you spent any time at all on the water) and people were always coming up asking questions, expressing interest.

When I was a serious 2 event skier (slalom and jump - late 70's - early 80's) the Mens 1 slalom division was huge - by far the largest group (usually 20-30 skiers). The overall attendance at a typical Class C tournament would be huge. Families, friends, made a weekend out of it. And there were lots and lots of walkups.

When I attended the AL State tournament last year (held at Clearwater Lake -a private ski community) in Huntsville, I was saddened to see that the only people in attendance were the skiers for that particular event along with the required judges and drivers. There were only 3-4 Men 1 skiers. The largest group was Men's 3, followed by Men's 4. And what was most disturbing was that the skiers were just showing up, skiing, and then leaving. There was little to no comraderie or revelry that I remembered from the old days.

I was there to watch a friend (Men 3) jump. When I walked up with my kids to just watch, I felt like a tresspasser and I suppose I was since the judges and scorers tables, jump meters, starting dock, etc. were all on private homeowners property.

My point is, there isn't any exposure to the general public any more. The skiers are getting older and moving on. The only young competitors today are kids of the old skiers. There isn't any new blood coming into the sport.

I understand the desire to ski on private ski lakes. We used to have to deal with frequent re-rides because some fisherman needed to cut through the tournament site to get to his honey hole. But I feel it is killing the sport.

Then when you pile on with crappy, superior attitudes (see for example: http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=6756), cost of competition boats, and the high price of gas, it is only a matter of time before three event tournaments become a topic of nostalgia.

My $.02
(...and that's about all my opinion is worth.)

whitedog
01-26-2006, 11:50 AM
My :twocents: ; We generally do not attend tournaments unless one of the kids is competing. It just take too much precious time away when we could be on the H2O ourselves. Same with many people we ski and boat with.

DanC
01-26-2006, 12:00 PM
Well you have some great ideas here, or at least pieces of ideas. Areana football has done some of it right (like your cheerleaders idea).

But tennis has tried the same thing, city teams that travel and compete, and I would call it a failure. And I think I would call tennis a bit more of a popular sport than water skiing, at least from the professional, commercial viewpoint.

Ryan
01-26-2006, 12:31 PM
The team idea is intersting, but I doubt there is enough momentum to get real sponsorship. Plus in a way the teams already exist with the Sponsored riders.

Maybe there needs an event at tournaments that each manufacturer's team competes for at the end for the best 3 event score, MC sends Wade Cox for slalom, Freddy Krueger for Jump, and Regina Jacques for tricks versus who ever CC, Malibu, Tige and Supra sponsors.

All the riders compete in idividual events then collectively at the end for their team.

Sounds like a good idea. However, there would likely be more competition among manufacturers to bid high for the best athletes, which will get rolled into new boat prices.

Ryan
01-26-2006, 12:34 PM
While I agree with you and wish that these athletes could be more exposed. It will never happen until it is what the majority of TV viewing and consuming Americans demand. The only reason that a professional, baseball, football, hockey or basketball athlete gets paid so much is because there are millions of Americans who are willing to pay $75 for a ticket, $120 for a jersey or $5 for a baseball card. The "mainstream" athletes play in the major sports that Americans "need."

The same thing happens in college. You never hear about the University ski competitions, but college football and March Madness rule because of the ratings they achieve for the big-time networks.

I wish It could be so, but probably never will.

Funny thing about the entertainment or even new product biz, there doesn't have to be any demand. You can create it. I don't think anyone was screaming to have a TV show called 'Dirty Jobs', American Gladiators, or Arena Football. Ideas are sold to broadcasters, momentum is built and viewers come-a-runnin'.

LakePirate
01-26-2006, 12:56 PM
I think to make tournament skiing you need to get more sponsors. Lets look at an MC skier. He is sponsored by MC, Body Glove, D3 and Masterline. I mean no disrespect here at all, but on Kickin' they showed his house. From what I saw it was not in-line with that of what you would expect of a professional athlete. Obviously, with prize winnings, ski clinics, and sponsor dollars he is able to put food on the table, but if he were to get a mainstream sponsor he might be able to live a bit more comfortably.

Now, we know that Rolex is a sponsor of the Masters. They see that there is a market there and support it. If Skiing could get more mainstream sponsors like cellular providers, Beer companies, computer companies, oil companies, even retail stores (who on here hasn't shopped at Lowe's or Home Depot?) it will provide the athletes more monies in prizes and sponsorships. Big Corp will also put the pressure on ESPN/ABC, Fox Sports, OLN and other broadcasting companies to put more events on TV. I am sure we all remember the Budweiser Pro Tour and it's coverage. Sponsor Clout = coverage.

LakePirate
01-26-2006, 12:57 PM
From over at WWSP

20 January 2006

TV SCHEDULE WEEKLY UPDATE - NEW CITIES THIS WEEK - GREENSBORO, DAYTON,SYRACUSE,MACON, MONTERAY/SALINAS,& ELMIRA


http://www.worldwaterskipros.com/news/200X130/Jimmy%20130x195.jpgORLANDO, FL, January 8, 2006. As part of the World Waterski Pros 2005 Series, the Mastercraft Pro event held in Flushing Meadows, NYC, is being aired through a national syndication network from Nov. through May, 2006. So far 73 stations have signed to air the show, we have listed specific dates. Our schedule is updated weekly. We will post cities, dates, and times on our website as we receive them. TV schedules are also updated by the TV production company, Jalbert Productions, Inc./ www.jalbertfilm.com

Washington KOLO ABC
3/18/06 Noon

Washington KOLO ABC
4/24/06 8:00 PM

Minneapolis KSTP ABC
3/19/06 4:00 PM

Phoenix KNXV ABC
3/18/06 Noon

Pittsburgh WBGN IND
1/28/06 9:00 PM

New Orleans WDSU NBC 1/1/06 5:00 AM

Greensboro WGSR CBS/IND
1/28/06 3:00 PM

Jacksonville WJJX ABC
1/8/06 3:10 AM

Dayton UPN UPN
1/20/06 9:00 AM

Flint WNEM CBS
12/25/05 12:00 PM

Syracuse WSTR ABC
3/6/06 5:00 PM

Ft Myers/Naples WBBH NBC
1/7/06 2:00 PM

Honolulu KITV ABC
3/4/06 3:00 PM

Portland WMTW ABC
4/8/06 1:30 PM

Shreveport KPXJ UPN 11/13/05 12:30 PM

Cedar Rapids KCRG ABC
1/15/06 1:00 PM

Tri Cities WCYB NBC 4/2/06 1:00 PM

Colo. Spgs KXTU UPN 3/26/06 2:00 PM

WACO KBTX CBS 1/21/06 11:30 AM

Baton Rouge KWBJ WB 11/3/05 2:00 PM

Lansing WILX NBC
3/25/06 1:00 PM

Tyler KFXK FOX 1/8/06 11:00 PM

Tyler KFXK FOX 1/29/06 4:00 PM

Reno KOLO ABC
2/18/06 5:00 PM

Macon WGXA FOX
2/5/06 6:00 PM

Macon WGXA FOX
4/2/06 12:00 PM

Eugene WGXA ABC
1/8/06 11:00 AM

Monteray/Salinas KION or KCBA FOX
4/2/06 3:00 PM

Duluth KBJR NBC
4/1/06 1:00 PM

Salisbury WMDT ABC 3/25/06 5:00 PM

Rochester KTTC NC
2/26/06 11:00 AM

Binghamton WIVT ABC
3/18/06 5:00 PM

Idaho Falls KIFI ABC 4/23/06 11:00 AM

Clarksburg WVFX FOX
3/26/06 12:00 PM

Elmira WETM ABC
4/1/06 2:00 PM

Waterton WWTI ABC
3/18/06 4:00 PM

Fairbanks KTVF NBC 11/12/05 3:00 PM

Fairbanks KTVF NBC
1/21/06 4:30 PM

Farmer Ted
01-26-2006, 12:59 PM
Sounds like a good idea. However, there would likely be more competition among manufacturers to bid high for the best athletes, which will get rolled into new boat prices.

It's possible the cost would be passed on the to end user (us) but this is where sponsorship outside of the manufacturers would come in. The beer companies used to have deep pockets for waterskiing what's changed from the early 90s when Bud sponsored the tour to now?

Maybe if events were comingled it would be easier to steer people to come check out the Ski tournament.

Every spring we have Mudbug madness in Shreveport, there is a nice little "carnival" area within walking distance of the Red River. On the other side of the river in Bossier we now have the Louisiana Boardwalk that has a huge riverside overlook.

A slalom course and jump could be set up right smack in the middle of Mudbug Madness and the Boardwalk and tons of people would get a chance to see the hard work that goes into a tournament. The only drawback I can see is it would be dificult to charge people admittance to something that's basically free.

Maybe this venue would be better for a waterski exhibition, get some heavy sponsorship, vendors can stand by to shovel in the cash from the thirsty/hungry/t-shirt crowd.


Just a thought


http://i.pbase.com/v3/19/461119/2/45871848.allDSC_0583.jpg

Farmer Ted
01-26-2006, 01:27 PM
Just drop a course in and wa la!

Protour site with a

-Bass Pro Shop
-Hooters
-Joes Crabshack

Plus all the other "outlet" mall shops you'd see on the side of the interstate.

Ryan
01-26-2006, 04:19 PM
Now, we know that Rolex is a sponsor of the Masters. They see that there is a market there and support it. If Skiing could get more mainstream sponsors like cellular providers, Beer companies, computer companies, oil companies, even retail stores (who on here hasn't shopped at Lowe's or Home Depot?) it ...Sponsor Clout = coverage.

Very good point.

88 PS190
01-26-2006, 04:31 PM
So you get mainstream sponsors, how long till people complain about sell outs, or how over commercialized the sport is. The guy skiing with wal-mart down the bottom of his ski etc. Does that not change the image of the sport negatively.

LakePirate
01-26-2006, 04:55 PM
Worse that Dr. Cheat?

I am not sure it will ever get to the point where we have over commercialization and sell-outs.