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the legend
12-14-2005, 10:14 AM
Being a service manager/tech I was curious to know what are the best and worst things about your dealerships? Simply I'd like to know what I (we) can do to improve your experiences with the dealers.

bigmac
12-14-2005, 10:23 AM
Being a service manager/tech I was curious to know what are the best and worst things about your dealerships? Simply I'd like to know what I (we) can do to improve your experiences with the dealers.My dealer is great. Very customer oriented. Absolutely no complaints about their service or their parts guys.

jbfootin
12-14-2005, 10:27 AM
Love the boat...Hate the dealer. Always runs over on cost and time. I have never left that place with out feeling like I just got screwed. My debth finder they quoted me $260 installed and it was $380. For a muffler they wanted twice as much, for just the part, no labor, than skidim. I understand that they need to make money, but they drive customers away with their prices. Now I either do the work myself or will drive as far as it takes to go else where.

Just my 2 cents

Leroy
12-14-2005, 11:02 AM
Love my dealer, but so far only use them for parts. Parts have been reasonably priced and they offer good advise on how to use what I'm buying.

I like my dealer having MC stuff in the store and have loaded my Christmas list with it!

If the engine didn't run, or something major, and I had checked the obvious, I would go to the dealer.

MarkP
12-14-2005, 11:06 AM
Sorry..

I cant help out with the best/worst thing as my nearest dealer has NEVER returned a single phone call.. Never! On three separate occasions I tried to have service preformed.

I GIVE UP.. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif..

starman205
12-14-2005, 11:17 AM
My dealer is great. Very knowledgeable, has always delivered good service and has gotten me back in the water ASAP. :headbang:

vegashomeexpert
12-14-2005, 11:25 AM
Sorry..

I cant help out with the best/worst thing as my nearest dealer has NEVER returned a single phone call.. Never! On three separate occasions I tried to have service preformed.

I GIVE UP.. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif..
Ditto on not returning calls: Ordered the '06 rudder. Was told it would arive in 2 weeks. Never heard back. I called them and was told the rudder was there. I scheduled an appointment to go in. I could not make the appt., called and cancelled and asked to be called back to reschedule. Still have not heard back (been a week) and don't expect to be called back. I think I will pick the rudder up and put it in myself.
Ditto on inaccurate price quotes: Was told by the salesman it would be $129 to winterize. Thought that was too good to be true. Called to schedule it, was told it would be $149 to winterize. Thought that would be too good to be true. Took it in, was told it would be $199 to winterize + parts. The winterization did not include changeing oil or tans fluid, new spark plugs, impeller, etc. Had that done. My $129 winterization turned out to be $800+. AND... as soon as it was done I was told I needed to pick it up ASAP as they did not have room to store it. When I picked it up, it was sitting in the front parking lot, unsecured. Not too happy with my few experiences so far!

bigmac
12-14-2005, 11:43 AM
All of these reported experiences so far, plus the fact that there are so many older MasterCraft boats that are well out of warranty, makes me a little irritated that there are no service or parts manuals (for boats OR engines) available to the actual boat owner.

I will say that this MasterCraft boat is the very first item in a long line of motorized equipment that I own or have owned over many years, where service/parts manuals weren't available. That's not my dealer's fault, but I think it's a counterproductive policy on the part of MasterCraft and Indmar.

jkski
12-14-2005, 11:49 AM
Sorry..

I cant help out with the best/worst thing as my nearest dealer has NEVER returned a single phone call.. Never! On three separate occasions I tried to have service preformed.

I GIVE UP.. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif..

Mark,

Living where you do, you might consider trying Mid Ohio Watersports (hopefully they are not the dealer you are speaking of). I've always found their service to be second to none.

Leroy
12-14-2005, 11:49 AM
Not sure which of us is the exception, but my dealer has returned my calls all 4 times this year. Most for $10 type part!You can see the trends already, return calls and don't surprise people with the bill!

djhuff
12-14-2005, 12:13 PM
My dealer is known for being terrible for service in my area, but I have had very few issues with them. Sometimes I have had to call and remind them that it was there (took it in on monday for some warranty work, wasn't done on friday, let them know I would be taking it for the weekend and would bring it back on monday, they had it done the next tuesday). Their main fault is communication, since I know this, I communicate with them instead of vice versa. Granted this is extra work on my part, but I would rather that then be suprised at the end and have to get mad.

We all need to realize that we who post on this board are not normal boat owners. The average owner takes their boat out "when they get a chance or have a free day", we on the other hand, make the time, and blow off weddings, showers, birthdays, etc. to get on the water. When taking the boat in for service, let them know that you have a weekend planned and need the boat back ASAP. Don't assume they will do the right thing, ask for it. This is when they "yes" or "no, that's not possible." I realize these are faults of the dealer, but this is just my way of lessening the pain of a less than ideal dealer.

ttu
12-14-2005, 12:17 PM
To me it always seems how wonderful and quick they are when you are purchasing the boat.

However when it comes to service or parts, you get the feeling of "who are you, have we ever meet". I have never understood why it takes so long to get anything fixed. If my car has a problem, most of the time it will be ready that day if not the next.

Just my 2cents

Workin' 4 Toys
12-14-2005, 12:18 PM
My two favorite things about my dealer....

#1- They remember MY NAME!!!!

#2- And, when I need something, they order it, no questions asked, no forms to fill out, now money down(except for a boat), I just call or email, and they will ship it or hold it for me until I get a chance to pick it up. Whichever I prefer. And pay for it when I get it.

east tx skier
12-14-2005, 12:25 PM
The Great. First rate service department. Reasonable rates. Knowledgable staff. They knows me by name. All this and I didn't even buy my boat from them. I had a blowout yesterday, and before the tire was completely flat, I managed to coast into their parking lot. They broke out the jacks and had me on my way in five minutes so I didn't have to get my work clothes dirty. They also tried to plug the tire, but there was sidewall damage.

The not so great. They are not a MC dealer. Sorry. We don't have a MC dealer.

east tx skier
12-14-2005, 12:26 PM
Sorry..

I cant help out with the best/worst thing as my nearest dealer has NEVER returned a single phone call.. Never! On three separate occasions I tried to have service preformed.

I GIVE UP.. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif..

My problems with a not-so-local dealer in this department are somewhat well documented. Rule #1 of customer service in my opinion. I was trying to order hundreds of dollars worth of parts at the time. Skidim got that money.

Todd '04_PS197
12-14-2005, 12:27 PM
You all need to check out www.mymastercraft.com for your parts, the proshop, and the forums for other informational needs. The sites great for MasterCraft lovers. It's owned and managed by my local dealer in Charlotte, NC. The owner and the team at the dealership are great. Everyone at the dealership is very knowledgable and has always been responsive for whatever reason I may contact them. I also received excellent service and they did a great job when I recently took the boat in for the annually maintenance, some warranty work, and adding a tower to my boat. Maeghan, 2 time wakeboarding world champion in the Proshop, has helped me by recommending the equipment I've been satisfied with. I highly recommend checking out the site and working with the team if they can help you.
It's sad to hear the negative experiences at other dealership. I have to wonder if there is an interest or opportunity among dealers or within MC to identify and share best practices to improve the Customers Experience?

east tx skier
12-14-2005, 12:30 PM
Also, while I'm at it, I'll throw in a plug for Rambo Marine (www.rambomarine.com) I've picked up a fair amount of parts from them. Lex in the parts dept. is so great to talk to. Even if, for some reason, they don't have the part you're looking for, it's worth the call just to talk to him.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-14-2005, 12:33 PM
I have to wonder if there is an interest or opportunity among dealers or within MC to identify and share best practices to improve the Customers Experience?

You bet they do. I think it goes beyond posting issues here though, it is being in contact with the Manu. if you really have issues your dealer can not help with. What he is looking for here is info. that can help him become a better dealer.

As you will find, bashing dealers here, comes back to bite you when you need the help most.

sizzler
12-14-2005, 12:36 PM
cant say enuff good things about mine.......they are v.professional

jbfootin
12-14-2005, 12:37 PM
We should be naming the dealers and location. At least for the ones that are getting a good review. I would like to know where are good dealers are.

On that note...On the MC web you can put in your zip and it gives you the dealer nearest you. I wish they would give you the 3 dealers nearest you and what distance they are... or all within a 200 mile radius or have a listing by state. That is because I am sick of dealing with Mr Outboard in Green Bay.

jkski
12-14-2005, 12:39 PM
We should be naming the dealers and location. At least for the ones that are getting a good review. I would like to know where are good dealers are.

On that note...On the MC web you can put in your zip and it gives you the dealer nearest you. I wish they would give you the 3 dealers nearest you and what distance they are... or all within a 200 mile radius or have a listing by state. That is because I am sick of dealing with Mr Outboard in Green Bay.


My great dealer is Mid Ohio Watersports located in Streetsboro, OH. Chris is second to none when it comes to sales, service and customer service. He remembers every boat that he has ever sold or worked on for me, and does this for all his customers. Can't say enough good things about him!!!

bigmac
12-14-2005, 12:53 PM
We should be naming the dealers and location. At least for the ones that are getting a good review. I would like to know where are good dealers are.



We need a Frappr Map... :)

phecksel
12-14-2005, 01:01 PM
WaterSports Marine always calls me back, service department has stayed late on a holiday weekend to fix a fuel pump issue, and mailed me a replacement warranty part after I offered to fix it, avoiding either one of us making the drive. They've done minor non warranty repairs for free, and just gone way above and beyond typical service. This from a customer who has bought two new boats since 1987!

nashvillematt
12-14-2005, 01:05 PM
Never had anything but great service from them. I guess it does help that Lex (parts) is a good friends dad, and the rest of them are family friends. Gotta love this set-up!

MarkP
12-14-2005, 01:20 PM
Mark,

Living where you do, you might consider trying Mid Ohio Watersports (hopefully they are not the dealer you are speaking of). I've always found their service to be second to none.
That’s not my dealer.. Definitely not who I was talking about. As a matter of fact, I have heard a lot of good things about, MOW.. They may be my next closest dealer (not sure). But I do want to find my “next closest” dealer..

RobertT
12-14-2005, 01:22 PM
My dealer, Dri-Port in Lake St. Louis is the reason I am a Mastercraft owner. The staff is knowledgeable, the building is huge and well stocked, when you order a part they actually order it immediately. They do the little things, like when you order a new skin they look up your hull number for you rather than ask you to find it.

I thought that all of the value added service came at a very high price, but after doing a little checking around they are cheaper than even Rambo on most little things.

After looking at the boat at the dealer (but before deciding to buy it), I came home from work to find a Dri-Port cooler with a 12 pack of iced down beer sitting on my step. I thought that meant a lot, they came to my home and gave a gift to say thanks.

Most importantly, they are there when you need them and then some. I have the cell phone number of the owner. When I have an issue, they come to MY DOCK and fix it while I am at work. Whats more, they do not mind teaching you along the way. While we were trying to figure out some vibration (turns out it was a tweaked prop), they showed me how to check my shaft alignment myself.

They are no fly by night outfit, they have not only secure outdoor storage but indoor storage as well. They charge $25.00 to get your boat for you. $25.00. What does that mean???? I will tell you. Rather than take half a day to go to the dealer to pick up the trailer, find another driver........I just make a call and they take care of the problem. Next thing I know, its back on the lift.

Last year I was having some problems with perfect pass. It was not a MC issue, but the dealer was adamant that they take care of it immediately. I woke up one morning, to find somebody on my dock at 6:00am working on it for me.

Almost as important, is that they are a great group of people. Every few months the salesman that deals with Mastercrafts invites all Mastercraft owners (rather they bought a boat from this dealer or not) up to a local bar for drinks on him. Very cool!

They don't have to do that.


Negatives...they only thing that I don't like about the dealer is that they do not have an endless supply of watersports gear at ridiculous cheap prices. I know, that's a little too much to ask but its all I can think of. We really need a local shop here, rather than a few skis and boards at a dealer. I think our dealer has the space, intelligence, location, and boating community to support a bigger pro shop.

I have said it before many times, if you have something good to say about your dealer...say it.

the legend
12-14-2005, 01:52 PM
Im excited to see that nobody is holding back here. If anyone here services your boat with me and have issues please let me know, either on this thread or pm me. I will not hold anything against you but would like to resolve any issues you might have.

jmyers
12-14-2005, 01:53 PM
I have to say I am EXTREMLY happy with my dealer (plug) SKI WORLD pleasanton! They have treated me with some of the best service from the day I walked into the store all the way to when I dropped my boat off for service on Monday! I am soooo glad I went for the MC over Nautique's that I was set on! I even called corp. MC to let them know how impressed I was with the whole expierence. :banana: I went in to buy a new wakeboard on Monday and Tony, the salesman that sold me the boat went and put the board in the truck for me so my son didn't see it! It is sometimes all the little things they do which really make the big difference! Anyone near Pleasanton should really go see this dealer!! Jeff

AirJunky
12-14-2005, 02:01 PM
I moved from a city with a large dealer to a town with a small town dealer. There is a HUGE difference in the two.
A couple of easy things you can do to make an impression...... call people back. Or don't. Either way you will make an impression, I guarentee it.
Also, remember that these boats are their owner's babies. Their pride & joy. Pave your storage yard to keep the dust down. And cover the boats when your not working on them. If it rains or snows, don't let it pile up on the cover till the cover has a blow out & fills the boat with snow or rainwater...... duh.
Have your guys clean up behind themselves. No one likes to see a greasy, sloppy boat mechanic in their boat that has a white interior...... double duh!
When the owner picks their boat up & it's filthy... they remember it.
Seems like some basic things to me. But it's all very common problems with crappy dealers.

the legend
12-14-2005, 02:23 PM
Working for Toys-Do you get service in IL or IND?

jbfootin
12-14-2005, 02:33 PM
Im excited to see that nobody is holding back here. If anyone here services your boat with me and have issues please let me know, either on this thread or pm me. I will not hold anything against you but would like to resolve any issues you might have.

What and where is your dealership?

tex
12-14-2005, 02:35 PM
My dealership is Tx Mastercraft.

Jimmy is great to me.

The biggest complaint most dealers make is simple to fix-RETURN CALLS!

P-hat_in_Cincy
12-14-2005, 02:48 PM
I have compliments to give!
Our most recent MC purchase was from BoatWorks ( www.kyboatworks.com ). It's our 2nd MC, but first from them. The sales experience was just to my liking. Laid back, no pressure, 'take as much time looking things over as you need and let us know how we can help' type of situation.

We've only had 1 after-the-sale service situation. We were having trouble at the ramp, gave them a call, talked things over, and we were dropping in the water 30mins later. That 1 situation told me how much they valued your time on the water!

The other before-the-sale add on items were done well. I asked for some "while you're in there" items to help me with future projects and was met with "we can do that" type responses.

Furthermore, they support those who support them. They have a Kids with Cancer day, sponsor watersports events, and keep you informed with a periodic newsletter.

Oh...they do have a decent pro shop too!

Anyways, I've been impressed so far.

My thoughts: A sales staff may get the first sale, but your service staff will get the 2nd, 3rd, 4th...

Rockman
12-14-2005, 02:57 PM
Bad things: I have not experienced any stability with any MC dealer in Northern IL.

This started the day we walked into the first MC Dealer and started shopping. There has been a significant amount of turnover in MC dealers in northern IL in the past 10 years. None has been around long enough for me to say tell you "Call them, they'll take care of you." The dealers that existed either closed down becasue Uncle Sam was after them or they changed owners or they were dropped from MC entirely, etc. I know that there is at least 1 new dealer that has opened recently that have some good reviews but I haven't had the chance to visit the shop yet.

We wish that a dealer would listen to a customer when they call in to ask a question or explain a problem.

We actually called a Yamaha dealer becasue we needed to get a new water impeller installed on our ProV and the guy answering the phone rudely said that they don't service MasterCrafts. I asked why not and he said that they only work on Yamaha motors. No $h!t sherlock, that's what's on the back of ours I told him. He said "Oh?" Needless to say, I changed the impeller myself.

Had our boat taken in to get a few small scratches rubbed out before putting it away before winter. When we picked up the boat at the dealer, the cover wasn't put back on right so water had accumulated in one area and started to mold, the lower unit was filled with water and partially frozen as they didn't put a cover over it while it was at the dealer. Luckily it didn't freeze and break the lower unit apart.

Best one was when we had taken our boat in to have the brakes on the trailer checked and to have a new sending unit put in the gas tank. The brakes were done and the dealer "claimed" the sending unit was replaced. We get home and put the boat in the water and the fuel guage was still not working. After numerous phone calls with the shop, they were 100% sure the sending unit was replaced. I open up the tank and it looked pretty old to me. Numerous phones later and same story. The people at the dealer were then very rude on the phone. A few days later, someone from their parts department called letting us know that the sending unit (the original one that was ordered) had arrived and asked when we could bring the boat in so they could replace it. Needless to say this turned into a disaster trying to get the paperwork squared away with them.

Lastly (this is true), an MC dealer telling a customer to use a "big 'ol nail" as a pin for your swim platform is either 100% white trash or a 100% stupid. My buddy was so pissed off when he was told this he was ready to strangle the guy at the dealer.

Stickers..forget it. :noface: No one ever has any. They tell you to get them made at a sign shop...yet they are copyrighted!!!?

Good things: Call Rambo for parts and you won't have a problem.

Other ideas: Learn as much as you can from your friends and everyone on the board so you can just do the work yourself! :toast:

jmyers
12-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Move to California! Great dealer's, NO events!! Well can't have everything I guess! :( WHERE ARE THE WEST COAST EVENTS? :confused: I know Team MC is reading these!!!!!!!

the legend
12-14-2005, 03:34 PM
Chicago MasterCraft in Fox Lake Il

the legend
12-14-2005, 03:45 PM
I know what your talking about as far as MC in IL moving around, I've been a tech for MC in Northern IL for nine years. Ive moved with MC into three different buildings, its tiring but I maintain my loyalty to MC. Im assuming your talking about Midwest MC(owned by Munson) and Munson Ski. Just so you know Munson dropped MC just before our boat show, MC did not pull it from them(long story). Anyway, I don't know if Ive serviced your boat @ Chicago MC without knowing your last name, but if I have and you weren't satisfied let me know how we can address any issues you have.

Diesel
12-14-2005, 04:56 PM
I have to give props to David's Sports Center in OKC. By for the best dealership I have ever worked with. This is my second MC (and 4th boat for the family) I have bought from David's and the whole crew up there is 100% focused on customer satisfaction. I really, really considered other brands this past year before I bought my 209 but my dealer and my 205 were just way too good to me in the past to bail out.

I just had the 209 in for warranty work. David's had it for 2 months but everything on my long, anal list was fixed to perfection. They even took the time to match up a few gel coat imperfections that came from the factory. Upon my request the boat was kept locked-up inside the entire time and was spotless when I picked it up.

Since day one my PP has never worked properly. I was not ready to take it to the dealerships and risk missing a few weekend during the summer so was trying everything on my own to get it to work. I had been working with MYMC and Gary at PP to find a solution all summer. After many failed chip upgrades and other calibrations I finally gave up. Well after a week of trying David's could not fix it either so they completely swapped out the entire PP system. I have not had a chance to get it back out on the water but it is reportedly fixed and the new multi-line display is steller!!

I do prefer to do things myself and James has always taken the time to answer my questions or order parts. In 10 years my 205 never once went back to dealership after the first bit of warranty corrections and adding the hook. Don't get me wrong I had to fix things along the way but David's was always willing to supply tech help or order me parts to get me back out on the water. Their part prices have always been in line and they have always seemed to get the requested parts very quickly.

In addition, they have, hands down, the best pro shop in OKC. What ever you need they got it and usually at internet prices or better. As a family owned business they are true enthusiasts so they always seem to have the latest and greatest on the shelf, ready to go. Not to mention they stock a ton of critical MC parts on the shelf for repairs and upgrades.

MC has a great dealer here in OKC that will continue to get my business for years to come.........

Thanks David's!! :)

jkski
12-14-2005, 06:03 PM
That’s not my dealer.. Definitely not who I was talking about. As a matter of fact, I have heard a lot of good things about, MOW.. They may be my next closest dealer (not sure). But I do want to find my “next closest” dealer..


Mark,

I've been through Cranberry PA (ate at the Lube there). Anyways, Mid Ohio Watersports is probably about 45 minutes from you (give or take).
I'm sure you'd be happy with their knowledge and service.
Best of luck. (www.midohiowatersports.com)

Tom & Nik & Family PS 197
12-14-2005, 07:43 PM
It's too bad we're so far out of the loop up here in Canada, because we can't rave enough about our dealer. All of the staff at Martin Motor Sports in Edmonton, Alberta go WAY out of their way every time we are in, (and believe me, with what boat fanatics we are, we are in there quite often) They make sure to get us what we need & make sure we have & what we want and are completely satisfied before we leave the door. Phone calls, emails, etc. are returned immediately, and sometimes, even to our surprise on weekends!! To say that they go above and beyond would definately be an understatement. The only problem we have is not knowing how to express our appreciation enough to them. Sorry to rave on but after reading some of the posts, we felt it necessary to voice the positive experience we have had.

rodltg2
12-14-2005, 07:54 PM
i guess i like my dealer since ive bought 2 boats from them in one year.

Leroy
12-14-2005, 07:59 PM
Very diplomatic Rod based on what I know of your story!




i guess i like my dealer since ive bought 2 boats from them in one year.

Tom & Nik & Family PS 197
12-14-2005, 08:01 PM
One more rave, then I'll shut up..............our dealer has arranged, at minimal cost, for a quick down & back road trip to tour the MasterCraft factory in January.......held to a higher standard.....you bet!!

jmyers
12-14-2005, 08:24 PM
Very diplomatic Rod based on what I know of your story!
:uglyhamme

JimN
12-14-2005, 10:50 PM
Rockman- can you give a time frame so Will can at least have an idea of whether it was one of the dealers he worked for, at the same time you had the problems? Steve messed up big time when he was closed up and he had the dealership in Fox Lake as well as the one in Elkhorn, WI. Two goldmines, as far as preferred locations to have a boat dealership, especially ski boats. It was, however, a great opprotunity for someone else to go into those markets and make a name for themselves. It could have been great but I think it wasn't, because of "absentee ownership" in the case of Elkhorn. I think it was more of an arrogance issue in the Fox Lake store, though.

I know Will and he will definitely take care of you, your boat and make you want to go back there.


(Will- same price as before. Small, unmarked bills, plain brown bag.)

baedriver
12-14-2005, 11:25 PM
I have not got my boat yet but the dealership is first class all the way. During the purchase process they have been awesome Very professional and always there if you have a question.

Footin
12-15-2005, 12:12 AM
I mail order most of my parts from Rambo Marine, I can not recommend them enough; however, Mid Ohio is close to me and the things I have gotten from them they have done a great job also. (Chris at Mid Ohio is always willing to help and that means alot to me)

PendO
12-15-2005, 01:54 AM
I think that b/c of the short summer we have hear out dealer gets really slammed over a short period of time. That said, they always bend over backwards to get us on the water if there is ever a problem ... and the dealer has been willing to let us demo used boats. Kenny and Todd @ the Alpine Haus are super nice in the service shop. If you need parts talk to Todd, and Brett in the sales dept. is great ... that said, they treat you different when you have been a customer for a long time and bought several boats. My wife went out to get some MC clothing for Xmas, and got so cool Team Mastercraft freebee shirts. I agree that sometimes they get busy and you have to call back, but whenever you get them on the phone they never seem to be "bothered" that you are calling them before they call you. Also, in the summer our boats are always very clean when we pick them up. They put my boat in the shop for the winter as the spot they were going to put it in storage got filled up, needless to say I guess when my wife stopped by the shop yesterday to get the Tshirts Brett said he showed my boat to a customer and they have another 197 on order. I think the more you treat the salesman/shop guys like people, and show appreciation (christmas cards, christmas gift certficate) you will get it back 10X.

Unfortunately I had a friend go out to the MC dealer looking at a couple of different boats, and he dealt with a different salesman (who no longer works there - FIRED) needless to say he went and bought a Ski Centurion ... he and his dad went out there with a check book in hand on the last ocassion to buy a Moomba that was "in stock" only to find out it was already sold ... hopefully the boat they bought in CDA will work out for them, but there are definitely fit and finish differences. Ultimately the first time they went out the the MC dealer to look at MC's, the salesman (who no longer works ther) pointed out the moombas and did not do a very good job selling exactly what an MC is all about (as I am sure he had no real clue anyway). i think that people will generally pay for quality, so long as it is explained well ... i.e. don't tell me it costs more b/c it has a mercedes emblem, tell me what is under the skin.
Casey

jlf
12-15-2005, 11:15 AM
I have had experience with two MC dealerships. The first is a very small dealership close to home. They were great before and during the sale, not great after we had the boat. Will not deal with them anymore. They were great at returing phone calls though and getting things back to us when promised.

The second dealership we have had some ups and downs with also. I would say my biggest complaint is not returing phone calls. I understand that a dealership has many customers and the ones standing in the showroom may take priority. I guess I feel if I've brought my boat to you the least someone can do is return a phone call, I don't feel I should have to check up on my boat to see when it is done. A good thing is the work we've had done on our boat, has always fixed the problem and has been done thoughly. There also seems to be some lack of communtication within the dealership. Not everyone is on the same page. We made an appointment to drop our boat off and when we got there we ran into the owner, who is very active in this dealership, and he had no idea our boat was comming, not a big deal, just felt weird when we were dropping it off.

The dealership is very knowledgeable in their skiing and boarding accessories and have a pretty good selection of it. Also have a good selection of MC appearl and stickers.

Overall I'd definitly recommend them to anyone.

I also like that when I go into the dealership they know my name.

jlf
12-15-2005, 11:27 AM
One last thing I don't understand about MC and Indmar.

GM has a very extensive training program for it's mechanics, they have to be certified in a field before they can do work under warranty on a GM vehicle. They have continueing education classes as new technology comes out on its vehicles. Why doesn't MC or Indmar make it's mechanics go through some of the same classes/training to make sure the techs are all up to date and certified? I am sure the training classes are not cheap, but I would think it might be money well spent.

Just wondering?

RexDog1
12-15-2005, 11:30 AM
My story

My friend has a 2004 X10 I have 2005 X2
We went on a trip about 300 miles from the house for a week
Thursday we put the boats in the water the X10 throttle cable
(The dealer replace the day before) would only work
In reverse “he did not check it when he picked it up” we called the dealer
From the dock they said they would send a mechanic out that night
300 miles WOW, we are both are mechanically inclined so we could have fixed it
In about 2 to 3 hrs. But we had my boat, we put it the X10 back on the trailer
The mechanic showed up that night and fixed the boat
In about 2 Hrs.
It was our fault we not to check the work that they did (that will never happen again)
But sending someone out 300 miles wow thank you
Our dealer has had some small problems; I think they are turning things around

I do like what some dealers have a mobile mechanic that comes to you, to do oil changes
winterize, and so on… this will help dealers with small room at their serves center
Some dealers spend more time moving around boats than working on them

I am new to TMC but not to boating, I read it a lot and I think if a dealers
Work on… Return Calls, Hit due dates and Quality work at a fair price
It will go a long way…………. oh one more, It should not take a month to get your Boat in the serves center :twocents:

Thank You MasterCraft

the legend
12-15-2005, 11:53 AM
MC/Indmar requires each dealer has certified techs/Master techs like myself, we spend up to two week stints getting training. I have probablt taken every course at least three times in my nine years of being a tech. Its up to the tech to pay attention and learn what we are taught. All my certificates carry the GM certified power train logos.

PendO
12-15-2005, 11:59 AM
MC/Indmar requires each dealer has certified techs/Master techs like myself, we spend up to two week stints getting training. I have probablt taken every course at least three times in my nine years of being a tech. Its up to the tech to pay attention and learn what we are taught. All my certificates carry the GM certified power train logos.

it may be up to the tech to pay attention, but it is up to the dealer to make sure the tech has paid attention.

ski_king
12-15-2005, 12:04 PM
Last time I was at my local dealer he wasnt interested in helping me with a rebuild kit for my carb. I went next door to the CC dealer and bought what I needed off the shelf.

I see the dealer has changed, I will give them another try, but then I see Mark has said they don't return his phone calls.

the legend
12-15-2005, 12:10 PM
Many techs spend the training class time passed out cuz they spent the nite at the local pub. Too many its a paid vacation. Also, most certified techs for boats get paid less then the techs in training for the car guys. Remember the technology in boats are about 10-15 years behind, as well as our diagnostic tools that dealership owners don't want to pay for. Luckily, like myself their are techs that take their jobs and your lives very seriously, we pay attention, do our home work and pass our exams, yes we still take tests that we have to pass to be certified.

PendO
12-15-2005, 12:17 PM
Many techs spend the training class time passed out cuz they spent the nite at the local pub. Too many its a paid vacation. Also, most certified techs for boats get paid less then the techs in training for the car guys. Remember the technology in boats are about 10-15 years behind, as well as our diagnostic tools that dealership owners don't want to pay for. Luckily, like myself their are techs that take their jobs and your lives very seriously, we pay attention, do our home work and pass our exams, yes we still take tests that we have to pass to be certified.

As for being drunk - that should not be the responsibility of those of us who own MC's and expect top tier service

As for pay scale, again, not our fault. (You either get paid what you deserve, or you ask for more and move on if you do not get "your price"

As for diagnostic tools, again, not our fault.

This thread started out good, but the last post pisses me off a bit!

Generalizing and speaking out of school tends to do that.

lakes Rick
12-15-2005, 12:31 PM
I emailed the MC "dealer of the year" a week ago about the Indmar alternator bkt upgrade.. Haven't heard a peep..

OH, that would be Portland Oregon.........

the legend
12-15-2005, 12:31 PM
I was simply answering your post about schooling-To be quite honest many off the topics and post I read on this site are stated with little to know knowledge. I was not at all impling these things are the consumers fault, simply facts. I wish the inboard service market was up to par with the auto market but its not, nor will it probably ever be. I check in on this site to help/informer you the customer, whether your my customer or not makes no difference. I simply want to steer you in the right direction and help you if I can. Take that for what its worth.I started this thread to get you to tell me what all of us dealers need to do to make your exerience better. This might piss you off further, but there are customers out there that nothing you do will make them happy.

the legend
12-15-2005, 12:32 PM
'04 MCX Alt. bracket
MC part # 81495122

bigmac
12-15-2005, 12:50 PM
'04 MCX Alt. bracket
MC part # 81495122

Is that the part number for the new bracket or the old (problematic) bracket?

PendO
12-15-2005, 12:51 PM
I emailed the MC "dealer of the year" a week ago about the Indmar alternator bkt upgrade.. Haven't heard a peep..

OH, that would be Portland Oregon.........

Lakes Rick - I thought that the PDX dealer got the salesman of the year award and MYMC was dealer of the year? Check out Mike's website at Mymastercraft.com, or Jim @ baws will no doubt be able to help (although it looks like legend has given you the part #)

Legend - when you make generalized statements (whether generally true or not) ... there are 100 MC dealers, I assume you are not talking about your dealership, but about the other 99 ... however, you are NOT A CONSUMER at those dealerships, right? I think the thread was good to the point that you asked people to give the good and bad experiences ... speculation beyond that point seems unwarranted.

So, maybe you hear grublings from other techs about payscale, or older diagnostic tools, and maybe you have "heard" of techs drinking it up, what I am saying is, you "speak out of school" when you imply that some of the other 99 delerships have these issues. Truly I don't think you want to come on an MC sposored website and talk about dealerships (other than yours) that do not have good diagnostic tools, inadequate techs, or a low pay scale, and possibly techs that spent their time drinking at night and sleeping thru class?

I had a simple problem with my techs b/c they did not have a lot of experience with the L18 and missed that a knock sensor was not installed on one side of the block. They were perplexed, but let us borrow the shop code reader and the problem was a simple fix. Ours just happened to be one of the only L18's they work on (and, like bigmac noted, there are not good service manuals)

As for pay scale, it is a consumer issue only to the point that it does not allow a dealer to keep good help if there is more money elsewhere (but I don't think we all want to get in a discussion as to whether or not our tech makes enough money as I do not know the ins and outs of a dealership and its associated overhead costs)

I'm gonna stop my rant, because sometimes listening is more appropriate than talking.

PendO
12-15-2005, 12:53 PM
All of these reported experiences so far, plus the fact that there are so many older MasterCraft boats that are well out of warranty, makes me a little irritated that there are no service or parts manuals (for boats OR engines) available to the actual boat owner.

I will say that this MasterCraft boat is the very first item in a long line of motorized equipment that I own or have owned over many years, where service/parts manuals weren't available. That's not my dealer's fault, but I think it's a counterproductive policy on the part of MasterCraft and Indmar.

BUMP - agreed bigmac!

lakes Rick
12-15-2005, 01:03 PM
'04 MCX Alt. bracket
MC part # 81495122

Thanks legend.. I had part # S495122 Any difference????

lakes Rick
12-15-2005, 01:06 PM
Lakes Rick - I thought that the PDX dealer got the salesman of the year award and MYMC was dealer of the year? Check out Mike's website at Mymastercraft.com, or Jim @ baws will no doubt be able to help (although it looks like legend has given you the part #)

Pendo, you are probably correct as my gray matter does not work as well as it used to..

That does make sense, as that is the big push when I see these guys at the Portland boat show.. BUY BUY BUY... but all I want is a part????????

jmyers
12-15-2005, 01:13 PM
Wow! I sure missed alot between yesterday and today, I had to read for a while to catch up!! Casey, you ok now? :D

the legend
12-15-2005, 01:16 PM
thats the indmar part # just add 81 minus the "s" /new w/ bolts

Diesel
12-15-2005, 01:22 PM
Thanks legend.. I had part # S495122 Any difference????

I would check on the 05 MCX bracket. It is completely different and much beefier than this supposed fix. Ric posted a pic a few weeks ago and it looks like the 05 bracket would eliminate any doubt........... :)

Diesel
12-15-2005, 01:30 PM
Remember the technology in boats are about 10-15 years behind, as well as our diagnostic tools that dealership owners don't want to pay for.

Hey MC/Indmar you listening to this!!

Why lag so far behind, especially considering the prices we are paying?? Emissions?? Cost?? Etc?? No excuse IMHO...........

If you ever do listen to your customers now is the time. How about some technology in the engine department that does not cost $12k?? How about OBDII and 32bit ECMs?? O2 sensors maybe?? 10-15 years is a long span in technology. There is so much out there you are missing and the first one that actually steps up to the plate will have a definitive edge..............

Good day now :)

the legend
12-15-2005, 01:32 PM
Im definetly not saying 99 dealers are slacks at all, I do keep relations with other techs throught the country, the majority of the MC dealers have well trained and caring techs. Its those few that make it the rest of us look bad and cause generalizations about the inboard service industry. I personally, ever time I go to training witness such activities, this is not speculation. I agree that service manuals(especially older) are in not available. My own stock only goes back to '97 and my parts manuals only go back to '90. And I to still make stupid mistakes, for us it is high pressure to make sure boats are running correctly in short periods of time due to our short (3-4 month) season in the midwest. Without waiver I can say for the most part you the MC owner has the best trained techs in our industry, at least, the information is there to get. I apologize if I offended anyone, sometimes my passions get in the way of my brain, Im sure most of you can relate.I now too will sit back and listen again.

the legend
12-15-2005, 01:33 PM
their working on it, MC is always the first in innovation. Technology= higher costs!

RobertT
12-15-2005, 01:42 PM
What I find amazing is that the one biggest complaint, is also the easiest to control. Communication. It is almost a theme.

The answer is simple, a policy that demands a return phone call within 3 hours. And/or, a update call every 2 days while a dealer is in possession of your boat.

If I had to guess, many if not most of the negative thoughts about dealers would be eliminated by following that policy.

At my firm, we have a 2 hour return phone call policy. It sucks. I hate it. Sometimes I just want to ignore that salesmen. Sometimes, I have no good news to give a client so why call them and upset them? Why? Because its good business.

If you wait for them to call you, you have already pissed them off more. Much better just to call them and give them the truth rather they want to hear it or not.

I would guess, based on my own experience, that a customer would rather hear the truth and an apology rather than ducking phone calls.

It is certainly not a matter of not having the staff to do that. It is much easier for a tech or parts guy to block out 30 minutes and make phone calls on his own schedule than try to screen calls all day. Dodging phone calls does not eliminate the time, it only assures that you will be forced into an emergency situation later with an unhappy client.

Just my opinion.

Diesel
12-15-2005, 01:49 PM
their working on it, MC is always the first in innovation. Technology= higher costs!

Come on were not talking about ground breaking technology here. Were talking about offering relatively "old" (2-5 year old) automotive technology. How can that cost so much more.

Your equation above is not true, here is where we are currently at...............

10-15 year old technology = higher profits.

Look at the cost of boats over the past 10 years. I paid $26k for my 95 PS205 with the LT1. This year (10 years later) I paid twice that for my 209 with a less technologically advanced MCX. If your equation is true (tech = higher cost) were is all this technology I paid so much more for?? To get similar technology to my 95' LTI I would of had to order the LQ9 (which has such a great reputation on this board btw) to the tune of another $9k. Somebody is making a killing off of us!!

Please don't take this the wrong way and it is not directed at you but I passionately think all boat/engine MFGs need to wake up and catch up a bit. Some one needs to think of of the box and stop following the status quo.....

All IMHO :)

D

Leroy
12-15-2005, 01:50 PM
Legend; Hopefully you are getting a few simple things to think about or talk inside MasterCraft.


I also agree, there are some people that would not be happy if MC paid them every time there was a repair, but you won't find them on here! ;)

bigmac
12-15-2005, 02:04 PM
their working on it, MC is always the first in innovation. Technology= higher costs!


Yes, I understand Indmar has been working on closed loop fuel injection for years, but that an O2 sensor in a water cooled exhaust manifold is technologically difficult and not cost effective.

OK, so some in this thread are complaining about MC/Indmar being technologically behind the auto industry. Certainly not a valid comparison, but even if it were...so what? From a performance standpoint, what is it that we think we are missing out on? What advantage would OBD II provide us, for example? How much more reliable, or how much more performance do we think we'd get if we had boats that were state of the automotive art?

Boats are a luxury item and there is no way that the economics of scale will allow ANY valid comparison to the automotive industry IMHO. And that same issue rattles all the way down the line to the amount of money that a MasterCraft dealer can pay his service techs. When profit margins get thin, innovation and customer service suffers. Period.

Personally, there is absolutely no way I would buy a boat that was state-of-the-automotive-art. The amount of performance and reliability I would get in exchange for what it would cost is WAY past the point of diminishing returns.

IMHO.

the legend
12-15-2005, 02:06 PM
In know that engineering has been working on cats/O2/IAT,etc, and I know there are some functioning prototypes, I also know that this creates some power loss. A cars cat I believe, around 800-1500 degrees to function properly(don't quote me) An inboard motor runs your cooling water thru the exhaust, a car uses outside air to dissipate the heat of the cat. The cooling water from an inboard engine would cause the cat to cool beyond its operating temp. All I can say is their working on it, Ill let you know when I know. OH yeah- GM is making the killing. I Have been in the S.A.G. group meetings were we techs, service managers and others sit across a table from engineers to discuss many things,most with resolve, but engineers.......like kids don't always receive what your saying. I LOVE MC ENGINEERS!! Good dAY GENTLEMEN

RobertT
12-15-2005, 02:18 PM
Two quick thoughts.

First, the technology would advance if there was any competition. If CC started using a radically more advanced engine capable of the same HP with half the fuel consumption for the same price....others would follow....but that just ain't gonna happen.

Second, why wont somebody do that? Well, a ten second equation in your head.

Up charge for the LQ9 is multiple thousands. One could assume that if you took the variable displacement GM powerplant that is going in next years Yukon and plop it into my boat...I could expect a 5-8 thousand dollar up charge rather that is justified or not. Did the LQ9 really cost that much more to put in your boat????

So, based on owning a boat for 500 hours, you are paying $16.00 PER HOUR more for that engine upgrade. That is PER HOUR.

Lets say that it doubles your efficiency, you are currently using 5 gallons per hour at $2.50 per gallon. That is $12.50 per hour fuel cost.

If you use half the fuel, you save $6.00 per hour.

So, to save $6.00 per hour, you will need to pay $16.00 per hour. Whats more, your techs will be clueless for a while. The dealers can do reasonably well with the current engines, but they cannot compete with a GM dealer pumping out hundreds of cars a month.

Basically what I am saying is that although I would love to have that technology in my boat, it does not nor will it make financial sense. Whats more, it will not give us a lot more in the way of performance. I really do not think I need more than 350hp in my 197/X7. Just don't.

If it takes us as consumers less than three minutes to figure out that the up charge with no appreciable performance gains is NOT worth it, I would assume that the decision makers at MC and the other manufacturers have done the same.

Just another opinion.

Chicago MC
12-15-2005, 02:40 PM
Why lag so far behind, especially considering the prices we are paying?? Emissions?? Cost?? Etc?? No excuse IMHO...........

I

Supply and demand.
The prices you pay are high because of the small number of new boats built each year. MC only builts less then 5000 boats a year for the whole world.

Boats lag behind cars in technology for the same reason.

Go down the street to your local car dealership and I bet they probably sell pretty much the same amount of cars a month as most boat dealerships do all year.
And there is probaly another car dealership peddling the same brand car less then 30 minutes away, and they probably sell that many a month also.
I'm not talking Chevys or Kias, either. I mean your Mercedes, BMW, Lexus stores.

rodltg2
12-15-2005, 02:49 PM
What I find amazing is that the one biggest complaint, is also the easiest to control. Communication. It is almost a theme.

The answer is simple, a policy that demands a return phone call within 3 hours. And/or, a update call every 2 days while a dealer is in possession of your boat.

If I had to guess, many if not most of the negative thoughts about dealers would be eliminated by following that policy.

At my firm, we have a 2 hour return phone call policy. It sucks. I hate it. Sometimes I just want to ignore that salesmen. Sometimes, I have no good news to give a client so why call them and upset them? Why? Because its good business.

If you wait for them to call you, you have already pissed them off more. Much better just to call them and give them the truth rather they want to hear it or not.

I would guess, based on my own experience, that a customer would rather hear the truth and an apology rather than ducking phone calls.

It is certainly not a matter of not having the staff to do that. It is much easier for a tech or parts guy to block out 30 minutes and make phone calls on his own schedule than try to screen calls all day. Dodging phone calls does not eliminate the time, it only assures that you will be forced into an emergency situation later with an unhappy client.

Just my opinion.


you hit the nail on the head with that. we sturggle with the same isssues with my company. i hate doing it , having to call a customer to let them know thier countertop broke and we have to remake it, and they will ave to take another day off. unfortunaley things happen in every service oriented business and its much better to call them beofre they call you. generally people wont get as mad as long as they are informed.

Diesel
12-15-2005, 02:49 PM
You guys are missing the point. We are already paying more, in my case double, with no show in technological advancement (it can be argued an actual decline in tech) in the engine/drive train department. Where did this added cost go??

The gains to OBDII and closed loop are enormous when it comes to efficiency. Yamaha has been using closed loop O2 sensors on their 2 stroke outboards since the late 90s (which arguably could be the most hostile environment possible for O2 sensors). Excuses, excuses and you guys continue to support them, hence the reason we have not seen an advancement. If done properly technology = reliability and longevity.

I was very disappointed last year when I went boat shopping because the problem spans all MFGs. I was very impressed with the LQ9 and that was my choice of engines except for the fact that is was $8900 upgrade!! Totally not worth it and after Rod's experience it appears I made the right decision. Everything on the MCX is 1980-1990s technology except the DBW The MCX is drastically different than the LQ9, but at what cost, how about something in between?? Why not something from this century that runs on 89 and at the cost of the MCX?? Hell I'm already paying for it considering the price I paid for my boat..................

Diesel
12-15-2005, 02:56 PM
Supply and demand.
The prices you pay are high because of the small number of new boats built each year. MC only builts less then 5000 boats a year for the whole world.

Boats lag behind cars in technology for the same reason.

Go down the street to your local car dealership and I bet they probably sell pretty much the same amount of cars a month as most boat dealerships do all year.
And there is probably another car dealership peddling the same brand car less then 30 minutes away, and they probably sell that many a month also.
I'm not talking Chevys or Kias, either. I mean your Mercedes, BMW, Lexus stores.

So are you telling me demand has increased in 10 years while supply has decreased?? According to economics this must be true to justify such a large increase in price in 10 years. I think MC currently struggles to sell all its production from year to year. I still see 04 new boats on MC lots and there are plenty of 05s at my dealer.

I fully understand MC only makes a few thousand boats a year and costs are split over fewer units than in automotive world but I see no justification in the sharp rise in prices, at least from a technology standpoint.

rodltg2
12-15-2005, 02:58 PM
unless your a footer or a jumper the lq9 is not worth it.

gene dobies
12-15-2005, 03:01 PM
unless your a footer or a jumper the lq9 is not worth it.
But if you like speed, it's wonderful, great engine.

rodltg2
12-15-2005, 03:02 PM
oh i know, it was sure fun going 50+ .

Jim@BAWS
12-15-2005, 03:10 PM
unless your a footer or a jumper the lq9 is not worth it.


It is an expensive upgrade...everyone Indmar MasterCraft and Finally the customer pays ALOT for that LOGO. The LQ-9 powerband is what jumpers need. That's why the big boys use that combo. It does give a very firm pull. Rod...correct me if I am wrong you bought a TT Boat not a new one correct.

Jim@BAWS

bigmac
12-15-2005, 03:19 PM
You guys are missing the point. We are already paying more, in my case double, with no show in technological advancement (it can be argued an actual decline in tech) in the engine/drive train department. Where did this added cost go??

The gains to OBDII and closed loop are enormous when it comes to efficiency. Yamaha has been using closed loop O2 sensors on their 2 stroke outboards since the late 90s (which arguably could be the most hostile environment possible for O2 sensors). Excuses, excuses and you guys continue to support them, hence the reason we have not seen an advancement. If done properly technology = reliability and longevity.

I was very disappointed last year when I went boat shopping because the problem spans all MFGs. I was very impressed with the LQ9 and that was my choice of engines except for the fact that is was $8900 upgrade!! Totally not worth it and after Rod's experience it appears I made the right decision. Everything on the MCX is 1980-1990s technology except the DBW The MCX is drastically different than the LQ9, but at what cost, how about something in between?? Why not something from this century that runs on 89 and at the cost of the MCX?? Hell I'm already paying for it considering the price I paid for my boat..................

First of all, I don't think that efficiency (and by that you of course mean fuel consumption) would even be close to "enormous". OTOH, I think the price increase would indeed be "enormous". As to reliability and longevity....on this board we see functioning boats going back to the 80's. Longevity just does not seem to be a problem. As to problems, maintenance issues, especially winterization" and layup, are MUCH bigger detractors from longevity than engineering issue ever would be.

I maintain that a ballls-out effort toward engineering improvements beyond what we now have would NOT result in performance or reliability improvements that we would as consumers would be willing to pay for. And I perceive that the fact that these issues "spans all of the MFGS" means that these cost-efficiency issues are an industrywide phenomenon.

Instead, we will continue to see incremental improvements in boat technology - evolutionary, not revolutionary - just as we have since the early days of powerboating. Someday, Indmar will determine that they can put closed-loop EFI in a boat engine at a price that won't drive the consumer away. Just not today.

rodltg2
12-15-2005, 03:41 PM
It is an expensive upgrade...everyone Indmar MasterCraft and Finally the customer pays ALOT for that LOGO. The LQ-9 powerband is what jumpers need. That's why the big boys use that combo. It does give a very firm pull. Rod...correct me if I am wrong you bought a TT Boat not a new one correct.

Jim@BAWS


yes mine was tt boat that was apprantley used for the awsa approval at shortline lake. i didnt have to pay the huge upgrade. i paid 35 for the boat then of course added, stereo and tower.

MYMC
12-15-2005, 04:01 PM
Is the cost of technology driving the cost of your boat? Well, to be honest, yes some of it. However, technology or performance is not the complete story...

Anybody here paying more for health care (try 600+ employees)? What about EPA compliance? Legal fees? Taxes? Basic labor costs? Interest rates? The EPA is one of the single largest factors involved in the price increases over the last 6 years, and if you have ever dealt with the EPA you'll understand that they make the IRS look like sissies!

Trust me when I tell you as a dealer I don’t like the pricing either! Sure I operate a margin business, but when my product costs more so does my floor plan payment. I have to balance volume to margin in an effort to stay alive.

If you don’t think your boat is more expensive to build than before take a look at the billet dash, chrome knobs, stainless hardware, larger windshield frame and no strap biminis for a start.

Can we do a better job price wise? Yes, I believe so, but it will be tough.

rodltg2
12-15-2005, 04:09 PM
build them in mexico.






im just kiddding. relax...

MYMC
12-15-2005, 04:25 PM
The automotive world survives on volume...the boat industry cannot. Most need a car or truck few actually NEED a boat. FWIW…Combined all inboard manufacturers comprise less than 1% of total boat sales.

Speaking for MCOC only I hire the best people I can (find and afford) and try to help them grow in their position within my company. Are mistakes made? Damn right they are, but hopefully we learn from them. Do we communicate with our customers enough? No, but we are trying to do better.

You often hear “they were great on the sale, but suck at service”…know why? Pretty simple really…companies pour millions if not billions into marketing new product and training sales people to SELL. Go to a book store and look at all the “selling” books…now find the books on “service”. Sure there are some but not nearly as many. We as a society love to be sold and it shows. Only recently have companies gotten “into” service and that is only because they have been pushed. For too long the short sided view has won out and we need to change our way of thinking. I cannot tell you how many times I have worked at boat shows that the conversation started with the customer telling me how he hated the dealer because of the service department, only to purchase another boat from that same dealer at that show…we love to be sold.

Boat dealerships are tough…feast and famine. During the spring and summer everyone works as hard as they can to keep the show moving. Come fall and winter the employees wonder if they will have a job all the way through and the owner has to figure out how to keep it all a float till the next season. Trust me it takes years off of your life.

Is any of this an excuse? No, just another perspective.

the legend
12-15-2005, 05:43 PM
MC's latest advancements include-tuned exhaust,mefi 5 controllers w/ intergrated electronic throttle and cruise systems a.k.a throttle by wire, what other manufacture spent the r&d on that? None, they all waited for MC to pay for it.Also,Plug and play trunk harness systems, maybe you should take a close look at the competetors wiring and quality it lacks. Pump in tank fuel pumps, aircraft grade fuel lines,and so on.

Chicago MC
12-15-2005, 06:25 PM
So are you telling me demand has increased in 10 years while supply has decreased?? According to economics this must be true to justify such a large increase in price in 10 years. I think MC currently struggles to sell all its production from year to year. I still see 04 new boats on MC lots and there are plenty of 05s at my dealer.

I fully understand MC only makes a few thousand boats a year and costs are split over fewer units than in automotive world but I see no justification in the sharp rise in prices, at least from a technology standpoint.
I'm not sure where I said supply has decreased. MC builds more boats now then it did 10 years ago because there is more demand for inboards.
I was comparing cars to boats because that is the apples to oranges standard. My point was that it costs a lot more per unit to build a boat then a car because they built so many more cars.

I think the price increases are just a reflection of how much more it cost each year to build boats of the quality that MC builds.
Prices go up. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.
This isn't confined to the boating world. I know the car I drove 10 years ago cost less new then the one I drive today.
I know the gas I put in it now doesn't cost the $1.50 it did then.
And not just materials and supplies, but the cost of keeping the company open.
Like MYMC said, insurance, taxes, labor, EPA guidlines that get stricter every year.
I had this type of conversation with a customer yesterday about the price of his indoor storage this season. If the place we store our boats charges me more then I have to charge more.
If our supplier raises prices then unfortunetly we have to raise our price also.
It's the same for the manufacturer. When the cost of fiberglass goes up, the price of the product built with fiberglass goes up.
When the cost of being EPA compliant goes up, the price of the end product goes up.
When labor cost go up, etc.
This is all pretty off topic anyways, but I think there is a misconception that these boats cost pretty much the same to build now that they did then and that MC and the dealers are laughing all the way to the Ferrari dealership because we must be making 50k profit on an X-Star.
That would be great(that would be a sweet commission ;) ), but it isn't the way it is.

Just my :twocents:

Jim@BAWS
12-15-2005, 07:13 PM
WOW

I have been watching this thread as I do most on here. Praying, hoping, watching that nothing would arise about our dealership that's negative. I think that you will find that the dealers that do participate on this website are very passionate about the MC product and what it does for our customer because we experince it ourselfs. I do wish sometimes that I did have more time on the water.

As dealers we can only battle price objection to a certain point. You Malibu, Moomba, or even CC owners out there. You guys have got descent boats...I am sorry they are not what we are selling. The MC is a much better engineered piece of machinery. I can prove and show it to you ALL DAY LONG without hesitation. Yes some dealerships sell on reputation. The Malibu Dealer North of us is awesome. The one just south is a disaster...but people keep buying based on price alone. I cannot figure it out. There brains are so filled with crap it takes an hour to decifer and present the truth to them. I have a NEW boat owner right now who almost bought a Moomba Mobuis because he was told it was "JUST AS GOOD AS A MC" ...C mon !!! Great guy, we were recommended as the dealer of choice but he could not get over price. It looks like he will be in a NEW X-1. It was and is a GREAT CHALLENGE. He will be much happier with our dealership and our product.

MYMC said it right, we are taught to sell sell sell. Service is a HUGE part of our dealership. Without it... NO DEALERSHIP PERIOD. We strive to return every phone call in a timely manner and every email. Even after hours sitting at the dinner table, or while helping kids with homework...yes we do after lives other than MC but you would never know it. Most of us do really try our best, sometimes it is not good enough. Is there a pecking order on who gets serviced first? ...there has to be. The guy who just bought the $100K X-80 gets president over the guy who needs shaft packing restoring his 78 Stars and Stripes. You would never know it because he will be serviced in a timley and fair manner. Would you be upset if you just spent $100 K and werent serviced to the "T"... you are darn right you would. Asking to have your phone call or email returned is not a request that should be ignored It should be expected. Every customer is important, every sale is important. It is just more important to some dealers than others.

Thanks for all the business you guys throw our way

Jim@BAWS

Rockman
12-15-2005, 08:06 PM
I know what your talking about as far as MC in IL moving around, I've been a tech for MC in Northern IL for nine years. Ive moved with MC into three different buildings, its tiring but I maintain my loyalty to MC. Im assuming your talking about Midwest MC(owned by Munson) and Munson Ski. Just so you know Munson dropped MC just before our boat show, MC did not pull it from them(long story). Anyway, I don't know if Ive serviced your boat @ Chicago MC without knowing your last name, but if I have and you weren't satisfied let me know how we can address any issues you have.

We've remained loyal as well. On MC pulling out, referring to Lakeshore Marine and the sister store in Elkhart.

If you do know who Munson used for glass work, do tell. They did an awesome job and a few scratches we had. I know the guy is up in Antioch somewhere.

Rockman
12-15-2005, 08:12 PM
Rockman- can you give a time frame so Will can at least have an idea of whether it was one of the dealers he worked for, at the same time you had the problems? Steve messed up big time when he was closed up and he had the dealership in Fox Lake as well as the one in Elkhorn, WI. Two goldmines, as far as preferred locations to have a boat dealership, especially ski boats. It was, however, a great opprotunity for someone else to go into those markets and make a name for themselves. It could have been great but I think it wasn't, because of "absentee ownership" in the case of Elkhorn. I think it was more of an arrogance issue in the Fox Lake store, though.

I know Will and he will definitely take care of you, your boat and make you want to go back there.


(Will- same price as before. Small, unmarked bills, plain brown bag.)

We bought our boat in 1996.

Those were the ones :mad: . We just got the run-around on alot of things and nothing was ever resolved until MC Corp stepped in. My buddy's boat has some major issues (bought from Lakeshore also) but was taken care of by MC Corp also.

Funny though...we paid for the extended warranty on our boat and when we had called to see if something was covered then politley said at the warranty company "Oh, you're not in our system. We have no record of you at all"

Luckily for us they gave us another warranty without any hassles since we had paperwork. Too bad the $ never made it to there place.

Rockman
12-15-2005, 08:30 PM
I was talking to my wife the other day about the new MCs and all the toys that are offered and how things have changed in boats in general since we bought our almost 10 years ago. :eek: We went back and forth on the toys to add, her wanting a bigger stereo, me wanting the big 8.1 liter engine, both wanting the heater, shower, etc.

My wife had aksed me what dealer would we buy from if we bought a new boat next summer (not that we are going to at this point) but just as a question. My response was "I really don't know"

I have heard stories on this board that someone was trying to buy from one dealer but the dealer wouldn't sell them the boat because there was another dealer closer to the buyer's home!? That really concerns me. I guess I would have to do my homework and ask about the various dealers in IL and WI from you guys here on the board.

I would probably buy from a dealer between my house and our cottage in case we had to have it serviced, it would cut down on the driving.

All I would ask for is that when I come in to place the order, listen to what I have to say, offer a helpful but not overwhelming opinion and give me a fair price. And most importantly, get to know me as a customer and not an ATM. If you treat me right, you will see me in the shop for repairs, ski equipment, maintenance supplies, etc.

Just my :twocents:

bcampbe7
12-15-2005, 08:53 PM
snip
All I would ask for is that when I come in to place the order, listen to what I have to say, offer a helpful but not overwhelming opinion and give me a fair price. And most importantly, get to know me as a customer and not an ATM. If you treat me right, you will see me in the shop for repairs, ski equipment, maintenance supplies, etc.

Well said! :toast:

I have had great experiences with MC of Charlotte and Rambo. :cool:

lakes Rick
12-15-2005, 11:43 PM
I would check on the 05 MCX bracket. It is completely different and much beefier than this supposed fix. Ric posted a pic a few weeks ago and it looks like the 05 bracket would eliminate any doubt........... :)

I cannot find it, but someone posted a pic of a new alternator bracket that is supposed to fix the bolt shearing problem.. Is this part # MC 81495122 or something else??

UPDATE... I found it...

jlf
12-16-2005, 09:52 AM
oops sorry didn't mean to open up a can of worms. I only made the schooling comment because I could've swore when talking with our dealership about it, it was something they said was not mandatory, but was up to the dealership to send its techs if they wanted to and they said it was expensive so not many went. Maybe I miss understood, that does happen.

I think we should get this back on track. The service techs can't change the technology or cost. We all chose to spend the money on a MC for our own reasons. Let's help out the dealerships by letting them know what they can do better to service us after the sale.

Going to the training classes and being sober would be a good start so when I do bring my boat in you can diagnose and fix it in a timely fashion Call me back!!

JimN
12-16-2005, 10:12 AM
Your dealer said it's not mandatory? Last I heard, yes it is. There are certain training classes that need to be passed by at least one tech at the dealership in the first year of the franchise. As far as the "It's expensive, so not many attend", the tech shouldn't have to foot the bill for this because it's the dealership that sees the most financial gain. The tech may get a bit of a raise but the dealership can recover a higher % of their shop labor rate on warranty claims. The dealerships that don't send all of their techs to training are doing a big disservice to their customers, IMO. The techs who don't go will not be able to diagnose and repair certain problems as well as a trained tech and just asking the guy who went is hardly an effective method of learning this kind of information. This translates to more comebacks, bad diagnosis, slow repairs (higher cost to the customer) and PO'd customers. Any dealer who won't send all of the techs to trainingis very short-sighted and just doesn't get it.

How many of you who go to a new or different dealer look for certificates somewhere that show what training has been completed by the techs? If you don't, do you want a guy who only knows carburetors working on a fuel injected motor when he hasn't been trained for that? I wouldn't and when I was in Indiana the first time, there were some techs just like this. Great with carbs, no clue with EFI at first. They understood what was happening after classes were complete, but the ones who were left in the dust were the ones who didn't understand electrical circuits. Sure, there are mechanical issues with the boats but the ones that have them scratching their heads are the electrical ones and if they don't understand or have no training in these areas, they'll take forever to find a problem unless they just get lucky.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 10:27 AM
How many of you who go to a new or different dealer look for certificates somewhere that show what training has been completed by the techs?
I DO........:)

bigmac
12-16-2005, 10:47 AM
Your dealer said it's not mandatory? Last I heard, yes it is. There are certain training classes that need to be passed by at least one tech at the dealership in the first year of the franchise. As far as the "It's expensive, so not many attend", the tech shouldn't have to foot the bill for this because it's the dealership that sees the most financial gain. The tech may get a bit of a raise but the dealership can recover a higher % of their shop labor rate on warranty claims. The dealerships that don't send all of their techs to training are doing a big disservice to their customers, IMO. The techs who don't go will not be able to diagnose and repair certain problems as well as a trained tech and just asking the guy who went is hardly an effective method of learning this kind of information. This translates to more comebacks, bad diagnosis, slow repairs (higher cost to the customer) and PO'd customers. Any dealer who won't send all of the techs to trainingis very short-sighted and just doesn't get it.

How many of you who go to a new or different dealer look for certificates somewhere that show what training has been completed by the techs? If you don't, do you want a guy who only knows carburetors working on a fuel injected motor when he hasn't been trained for that? I wouldn't and when I was in Indiana the first time, there were some techs just like this. Great with carbs, no clue with EFI at first. They understood what was happening after classes were complete, but the ones who were left in the dust were the ones who didn't understand electrical circuits. Sure, there are mechanical issues with the boats but the ones that have them scratching their heads are the electrical ones and if they don't understand or have no training in these areas, they'll take forever to find a problem unless they just get lucky.

It's not just training, it's also whether or not the dealership has acquired the necessary special shop tools - those tools become increasingly important as the boats become increasingly sophisticated, and, they become increasingly expensive. Again, when the dealer's profit margins get thin, those tools become an increasingly painful investment and EVERY dealer weighs the value of that expense ("I know I need this $500 de-frapperizer in order to adjust the MasterCraft-propietary main phaser bank, but I've only sold 4 boats that need that tool, and there's no way that tool is going to pay for itself.) So...what if you're one of the 4 with that boat? How's the dealer going to adjust your main phaser bank? Obviously, the smaller the dealer, the bigger that problem is.

OK, let's look at something simpler...service manuals. "The Legend" has been a MasterCraft tech for 9 years. He's a professional. He only has service manuals that go back to 1999 (IIRC). What!!?? What if someone comes in with a 1997 boat? Those service manuals are expensive too...my local snowmobile/motorcycle/ATV dealer carries 4 different brands - he has an entire ROOM that is nothing but a service manual library - both paper and electronic.

I feel for my own dealer. There are two MC dealers in Minnesota. One is located in the Twin Cities, the other is in central Minnesota with about 1/20th the population density. Yet even though my dealer has a much smaller customer base, he still has a lot of the same fixed overhead that the big-city dealer has in terms of tech training and tools. It's no wonder that many of the smaller dealers come and go, or that they can't do a consistently good job - their margins are even thinner than their big city counterparts. That especially problematic when we're talking about not just a luxury item, but a $50,000 luxury item.

JimN
12-16-2005, 11:31 AM
While it's true that there are specialty tools required, a lot of them aren't terribly expensive and the ones that are over $500 are capital assets, so they can be amortized over 5 years. The rest are expensed the same year. The manuals are available to the dealers and, IIRC, they were supplied to the dealer upon becoming a MC dealership. If Will has them back to 1999, there's not very much outside of that time window that he would need concerning EFI since the 1999 manual covers all years of injection. The carbureted boats are a lot more basic and there aren't really any surprises as far as troubleshooting and technical info.

A new dealer should really have a budget set aside for all of these expenses going into it. If they don't, I can't see them looking very far forward with regard to other necessary expenses that will help them succeed. Starting out with a shoestring budget is an uphill struggle, at best. A dealer needs to make a profit but shouldn't try to recover the cost of an expensive tool from the few customers who bought new boats in one year.

There's a saying that goes,
Q- "How do you make a small fortune in the boating industry?"
A- "You start with a large one."

bigmac
12-16-2005, 12:28 PM
While it's true that there are specialty tools required, a lot of them aren't terribly expensive and the ones that are over $500 are capital assets, so they can be amortized over 5 years. The rest are expensed the same year. The manuals are available to the dealers and, IIRC, they were supplied to the dealer upon becoming a MC dealership. If Will has them back to 1999, there's not very much outside of that time window that he would need concerning EFI since the 1999 manual covers all years of injection. The carbureted boats are a lot more basic and there aren't really any surprises as far as troubleshooting and technical info.

A new dealer should really have a budget set aside for all of these expenses going into it. If they don't, I can't see them looking very far forward with regard to other necessary expenses that will help them succeed. Starting out with a shoestring budget is an uphill struggle, at best. A dealer needs to make a profit but shouldn't try to recover the cost of an expensive tool from the few customers who bought new boats in one year.

There's a saying that goes,
Q- "How do you make a small fortune in the boating industry?"
A- "You start with a large one."

All true, no doubt. But in this thread we've seen a disparity - some people perceive themselves to have great dealers and some apparently not so great. Certainly, the issue isn't just related to tools and training, but overhead issues in general play a huge role. A smaller dealer who lacks the economics of scale may not be able to afford the personnel numbers and quality to be able to accomodate some of those basic dealership issues like returning every customer service call in a timely fashion, or meeting customer-expected service time frames. He could easily get to the point where he finds he's not selling enough MasterCraft boats to make that a financially viable sales line for him, and that he's financially better off becoming a Bayliner dealership. IOW, if, in order to stay afloat financially he has to cut back on personnel costs and have only one service manager instead of three, or 3 service techs instead of the 5 he actually needs, then he may find that he just can't afford to stay in that business - or, more likely, there will be customer service dissatisfaction issues.

For example, one major customer satisfaction issue is a dealer that can afford, at a moment's notice, to put a service tech in a truck to drive out to a customer's house and service his boat on the boat lift. How many dealerships can afford to do that? I submit that it's mostly going to be the bigger ones. Yet, the customers of the smaller dealerships spent the same $50,000 for their boat but of necessity have to accept a lesser level of customer service simply because the smaller dealer and his smaller margins just can't afford the same level of customer service.

It's just another point that needs to be put out there for consideration in comparing dealership satisfaction. I'm sure that some of those dealers just don't understand good customer service, or are managed badly, but I'm also sure that some of those dealers just can't afford the level of customer care that a $50,000 boat buyer thinks he ought to have.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 12:52 PM
("I know I need this $500 de-frapperizer
Is this how you get rid of the froth on top of a mocha latte???;)

bigmac
12-16-2005, 01:30 PM
Is this how you get rid of the froth on top of a mocha latte???;)

You apparently missed the latest news. Instead of upgrading the EFI on these boats, they're putting in a mochachino dispenser as standard equipment. Malibu announced shortly thereafter a mochachino dispenser AND a little oven for cooking scones.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 02:20 PM
You apparently missed the latest news. Instead of upgrading the EFI on these boats, they're putting in a mochachino dispenser as standard equipment. Malibu announced shortly thereafter a mochachino dispenser AND a little oven for cooking scones.
UHOH, I "WAS" a dedicated MC fan, but I may switch now with the scones warmer. It that similar to heated seats..:D

the legend
12-16-2005, 02:48 PM
Hello everyone, Im glad to see this thread still has life and that Im not dead yet.One simple correction, my manuals go back to '97, but don't worry I sit in the learning "T" in all my classes. I simply push out useless college learned info to make room for the new MC stuff. Out of curiousity, how many dealers are represented on this site? Jim, I think I might have gone to far with this stuff. If anyone is wondering, the time I've been spending on here is usually the time I call my customers back, no worries already called everyone back.

Rockman
12-16-2005, 03:04 PM
Is this how you get rid of the froth on top of a mocha latte???;)

Damn, you beat me to that one! :D

ski36short
12-16-2005, 03:12 PM
MC's latest advancements include-tuned exhaust,mefi 5 controllers w/ intergrated electronic throttle and cruise systems a.k.a throttle by wire, what other manufacture spent the r&d on that? None, they all waited for MC to pay for it.Also,Plug and play trunk harness systems, maybe you should take a close look at the competetors wiring and quality it lacks. Pump in tank fuel pumps, aircraft grade fuel lines,and so on.

How active is MC in MEFI development? Where is the line drawn between GM, Indmar, and MC?

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Out of curiousity, how many dealers are represented on this site? Jim, I think I might have gone to far with this stuff. If anyone is wondering, the time I've been spending on here is usually the time I call my customers back, no worries already called everyone back.

;) You dun good!

I think there are 6 I know of that key up when they get the cahoonies. BUT ALOT MORE SIT BACK AND WATCH the action.....:friday:

the legend
12-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Vey little, Delphi is responsible for the controllers. Interesting fact-the controllers (ECM) MC uses are found in a wide variety of applications, your car is one of them.

shepherd
12-16-2005, 03:18 PM
A recurring issue I see is communication and respect. Let your customers know what's going on with their boats, what it will cost, and when you'll have it done (and try to stick to that). If it turns out the cost or time will be more than estimated, immediately let the customer know.

And returning phone calls is just a simple matter of respect. Nothing pisses me off more than getting blown off by the shop who will be expecting me to give them $1,000 to spend a few hours working on my boat. Had that experience once with a shop at the marina where my Formula is stored. The shop manager or mechanic never returned ANY of my calls and didn't even tell me when my boat was finished or how much it cost (I found out when I got the bill). They'll never work on my boat again, and I've had plenty done on it since then.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 03:18 PM
Damn, you beat me to that one! :D
We need to meet, I like the way you think......How about a beer sometime somewhere....Hooters is a good spot....

the legend
12-16-2005, 03:48 PM
Not sure but this thread may be coming to an end. I believe the biggest problem between the dealers and the consumer may simply be communication. I will definetly review with my customers if they think (we) Chicago MC need to make adjustments and or changes in the way we communicate to them. I thank all of you for your thoughts and your passion in MC boats. We all share that passion and I know it's what drives me to come to work everyday, well that and my beautiful triplets. Nothing can beat their smiling faces while they sit @ the helm flipping my ballast switches on and off and on and off and on..........til the impellors shred. Happy Holidays!!

MYMC
12-16-2005, 03:59 PM
How active is MC in MEFI development? Where is the line drawn between GM, Indmar, and MC?

Indmar does the R&D with the engines (dyno and lab work for EPA). MC is offered what Indmar has developed for the next model year and then they decide if they want to pay a premium for exclusivity on certain products.

The long block assembly in your boat is generic to GM. There is no "marine engine" anymore...Indmar maranizes a GM street engine and develops/modifies a software package to control it. The engine, controller and harness are available through GM Performance parts.

The intake manifold (i.e. MCX, LTR etc..) and EXT exhaust manifolds are/were developed by Indmar and are paid for exclusives to MasterCraft.

MC is not in the engine business just like Indmar is not in the boat building business. Indmar keeps a rep at the MC factory to handle ALL engine and transmission issues. If you look at the DBW and PP issues last year you can see where MC has very little to do with the engine and control systems. MC relies on its vendors to be suppliers as well as trusted advisors.

Diesel
12-16-2005, 04:03 PM
How active is MC in MEFI development?

They are not. The technology exists and it is simply bolted on our application and the bugs/programing worked out. MC/Indmar did not revolutionize the industry with EFI. They might have been one of the first but it still took many years to get it in boats when it only should have taken a year or two max. 90% of the R&D is already done and the hardware already exists and in use, but it's all about profits these days and technology is going to suffer.

I am quite sure there were many people back in the 90s who were against EFI for the very reasons most in this thread are against technological advancements today (cost, reliability, longevity, etc). Just like anything people resist change and paradigm shifts, that is until a competitor makes a change or they get left behind.

Kevin 89MC
12-16-2005, 04:11 PM
Indmar does the R&D with the engines (dyno and lab work for EPA). MC is offered what Indmar has developed for the next model year . . .
MYMC, just wanted to say thanks for the info. This is the kind of stuff I enjoy learning about. I feel it's good to know some of the details behind building the boats, even if I currently drive a dinosaur. Someday I'll upgrade, and it's information like this that helps me decide what to buy ;)
Thanks,
Kevin

MYMC
12-16-2005, 05:22 PM
Glad to be of assitance.

ski36short
12-16-2005, 06:08 PM
Diesel/MYMC, that's what I thought - I didn't want to jump in there with my assumptions though. I'm pretty sure that MEFI is an older de-populated truck ECM and software and of course the long blocks are straight out of the powertrain plants. The marine group at work is pretty shadowy. We know it exists, what they do, and how they do it, but otherwise you don't hear much.

As far as the technology lag, it seems like the Coast Guard is a pretty luddite organization. They don't seem to come around too quickly to alot of automotive technology. I'm sure their approval holds things up.

MYMC
12-16-2005, 07:55 PM
Between CG and EPA it amazing anything gets done.

JimN
12-16-2005, 08:43 PM
BigMac- being a good servicing dealer is more a matter of wanting to be one than a money thing. For example, the first MC dealer I worked for was very small and had been a Supra dealer until Supra announced that they were stopping production so they could reorganize. By the time I got there, they had Regal and MC boats, but no full time service tech. The owners went to training class but didn't really grasp EFI too well. I went and since I was somewhat familiar with it, picked it up pretty well. We had a couple of meetings and defined what the previous issues were, decided on a course of action and went with it. That year was the best in the company's history to that point. The next year, we kicked major A$$. Sales were up, parts sales went through the roof and our CSI rating was excellent. We winterized literally hundreds of boats that year, yet we still had only 5 full time and a couple of part time employees, including the owners. I was the service department for most of the year, then we had some seasonal help. Still, the sales, service, parts, CSI and everything else improved steadily. Why? Because we wanted to do a great job of taking care of the customers. Were we perfect? No. Were we a lot better than most of the other dealers in the area? Absolutely, and the customers told us this.

A dealer can have all the money in the world and still be the worst when it comes to taking care of customers. I have a long retail history and have had detailed customer service training. CS training is one thing that ALL dealers need. Actually, anyone is contact with the public needs this. The difference, again, is wanting to do a great job of problem solving when the person/family with a brand new $50K ski boat has a problem and wants to go on vacation but the boat is flaking out. Anyone can tell them that it'll take two weeks. Not everyone will make the vacation a success. Not just the new customers were treated well. We took care of others who bought new, used, whatever, even if it was years before. It wasn't money that got us to that point, it was deciding what we wanted to be, then becoming that.

bigmac
12-16-2005, 10:33 PM
A dealer can have all the money in the world and still be the worst when it comes to taking care of customers..

JimN, are you saying that good intentions and customer service skills are all you need to have a great dealership? It's fundamental, certainly, but all I am saying is that some dealers in some locations have more resources they can apply to customer service issues than others. I'm not trying to justify bad customer service, I'm saying that what some people portray as bad customer service might be occuring despite the dealer's best intentions.

JimN
12-16-2005, 10:54 PM
No, I mean defining what it requires and actually taking the steps to BE that good of a dealer. If someone has good CS skills, they're already ahead of the pack since returning calls (a big point here with a lot of people) is a part of good CS. It takes a conscious effort and it seems that a lot of dealers think they're great just because they have a lot of money, a really nice shiney store, new trucks with bright lights and decals, and a big advertising budget. Those guys are way too isolated in their thinking and can't relate to their customers. Someone who is good at customer service is aware of their customer's needs/wants, knows how to deliver for them and is willing to ask what they can do to be better, just like Will is doing. They have to actually care if their customers are satisfied with them and be willing to.

The two qualities you listed are exactly what the ones who are complaining want. The "good intentions" should actually be called "I want to make this sale" and last about as long as a sneeze for the dealers who ignore the customers after the sale.

I would rather deal with someone who makes a real effort to get me what I want (whatever it is) with a small place that needs updating than someone with a new store and big ads who can't take the time to call me back. Bad CS is a huge issue with me since I run into it almost every time I try to buy something or have something done for me, and I'm not asking for the world to be handed to me. Sometimes it's just a matter of trying to get accurate information.

Leroy
12-16-2005, 11:00 PM
Reading this thread has been great! I hope JimN opens a MC store near me!


Or at least goes to work for Pinecrest as they are already a great dealer!

You get it JimN, as always technically, and now the business side!!! :worthy:

bigmac
12-16-2005, 11:01 PM
No, I mean defining what it requires and actually taking the steps to BE that good of a dealer. If someone has good CS skills, they're already ahead of the pack since returning calls (a big point here with a lot of people) is a part of good CS. It takes a conscious effort and it seems that a lot of dealers think they're great just because they have a lot of money, a really nice shiney store, new trucks with bright lights and decals, and a big advertising budget. Those guys are way too isolated in their thinking and can't relate to their customers. Someone who is good at customer service is aware of their customer's needs/wants, knows how to deliver for them and is willing to ask what they can do to be better, just like Will is doing. They have to actually care if their customers are satisfied with them and be willing to.

The two qualities you listed are exactly what the ones who are complaining want. The "good intentions" should actually be called "I want to make this sale" and last about as long as a sneeze for the dealers who ignore the customers after the sale.I agree completely, but I'm not talking about those dealers. I'm talking about the ones that can't afford to provide the customer service they would truly like to provide.

I'm not talking about not returning telephone calls, I'm talking about a dealer with three service tech and 100 boats in the shop not being able to get me back on the water in 24 hours from the day I drop it off, even though he desperately wants to do so. That's all I'm saying.

JimN
12-16-2005, 11:08 PM
As I said, I have been in retail for a long time and should have brought up some other points.

For people who deal with customers:

1) Learn to ask the right questions
2) Give the right answer, not what you think they want to hear
3) LISTEN

Leroy- if you read all of my posts about this and remember the comments in the past about the first dealer I worked for, you'll know why it was so dissappointing when the takeover happened, with the one who didn't have a clue coming out as the winner. They have since stopped carrying MC and were recently sold to another boat dealer.

MarkP
12-16-2005, 11:13 PM
Reading this thread has been great! I hope JimN opens a MC store near me!


Or at least goes to work for Pinecrest as they are already a great dealer!

You get it JimN, as always technically, and now the business side!!! :worthy:
Boy, do I agree with that Leroy!http://www.myfootballforum.com/images/smilies/thumbup1.gif!

bigmac
12-16-2005, 11:14 PM
Boy, do I agree with that Leroy!http://www.myfootballforum.com/images/smilies/thumbup1.gif!



Me too...

In fact, I wish he worked for my snowmobile or Harley Davidson dealer.


.

MarkP
12-16-2005, 11:23 PM
Me too...

In fact, I wish he worked for my snowmobile or Harley Davidson dealer.


..................................http://www.clicksmilies.com/usersmilies/einzelusersmilies/MattMan_foshizzle.gif

Leroy
12-16-2005, 11:27 PM
I remember and almost think the service side should have bonus/incentives like the sales guys. Separate the house. Then you might get the sales and service side working full strength. Let sales guys sell, and service guys run service. I think to your point a few smart, motivated service guys can go through a lot of boats quickly.

Sometimes it is unfortunate who ends up with money!

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 11:28 PM
I must be in a very good area or something, (or is it me)
The good:
My Mastercraft Dealer is great. (Pinecrest too but different from Leroy's)
My Arctic Cat dealer is great.
My GMC dealer is great.
My Ford Dealer is great.
My Jeep dealer is great.
My RC equipment dealer is great.
The bad:
My Yamaha dealer has some issues to work out on customer service.
My chevy dealer $ucked(thats one reason I don't have one anymore)
The MC dealer I bought from has serious issues to work out with customer service, that's why I will never be back there again. Sorry I bought there to begin with.

JimN
12-16-2005, 11:40 PM
BigMac- if a dealer has 100 boats in the shop and 3 techs, there's just about no way of satisfying his customers. His first mistake is probably trying to sell too many brands, if the sevice boats are different makes. It may be that he just can't say no, or doesn't have the guts to tell people how backed up they are. If a dealer has 100 boats waiting for service on a regular basis- is he trying to get more help? Can't he keep his employees happy? These need to be answered.

Is this a real case? During winterizing and summerizing season, I can see having that many boats needing service, or if it's a huge market area, it's possible. Part of it is determining who needs their boat first, who is willing to wait and scheduling them effectively. Out of 100 boats, there will be some waiting for parts with some on backorder. Not his fault, but it becomes his problem.

How should priority be determined? FIFO, how much someone has spent over the years, who complains the most/loudest? If a dealer regularly has 100 boats waiting for service, how is it that he can't afford to pay another tech? $300 is a fair estimate for an average service bill, so if he does 100 boats every month, that's $30K/month. Just in service bills. No separate parts sales, no accessories, no new boats, no proshop sales, no storage, no haul outs/put ins, etc. How can he afford not to add people and equipment?

I, and most of us at that dealership (which went down the crapper), felt that if there is a lot of work to do, you do what it takes to get it done. Sometimes it means adding staff if it looks like there's no end in sight for the additional stuff. Otherwise, it means putting in longer hours and going in early. Sometimes, it means picking up and delivering service boats, or doing the repairs on the water.

Whatever it takes to keep the customers happy, when they have a legitimate issue. One exception to this is when the customer doesn't provide complete information about the problem's history. This wastes the tech's time, makes other people's boats wait and creates a bad situation, no matter how anyone looks at it. When someone brings a boat in and says "it needs a tuneup, 'cause it's not running right", when it has actually frozen during the winter, been "repaired" and overheated the following spring but said nothing about it, that's just wrong and really screws up the schedule for everybody. But it still becomes the dealer's problem.

JimN
12-16-2005, 11:42 PM
BigMac- if you have a Harley and it has EFI, guess what kind of ECM it has?

Workin' 4 Toys
12-16-2005, 11:50 PM
During winterizing and summerizing season, I can see having that many boats needing service,
so if he does 100 boats every month, that's $30K/month. Just in service bills.
Ok, what's he do with the extra techs the other 10 months he isn't winterizing or summerizing? Put them on the floor selling?

bigmac
12-17-2005, 12:01 AM
BigMac- if you have a Harley and it has EFI, guess what kind of ECM it has?


My bike is an '03, so it uses the Delphi EFI box. Looks to be the same unit as on my MasterCraft...even the connector looks the same (is it?)

I have a Power Commander plugged into that circuit - it just goes inline with the stock-mapped EFI but allows user reprogramming of the AF map at an infinite range of throttle positions. Do you think it would be feasible to plug a PowerCommander into my MasterCraft's wiring harness and remapping my MCX? (not that I would, I'm just curious.

BigMac- if a dealer has 100 boats in the shop and 3 techs, there's just about no way of satisfying his customers. His first mistake is probably trying to sell too many brands, if the sevice boats are different makes. It may be that he just can't say no, or doesn't have the guts to tell people how backed up they are. If a dealer has 100 boats waiting for service on a regular basis- is he trying to get more help? Can't he keep his employees happy? These need to be answered.

Is this a real case?

No, I was just being hypothetical.

JimN
12-17-2005, 12:03 AM
100 boats in a month is doable for 3 guys. It just depends on what they're in for. I'm not talking about one month of 100 boats, but if they need more to work on, advertise! Just like every other type of retailer. We would sometimes pull people from the sale floor when it was too busy in service.

Like I said, Do Whatever It Takes as long as the quality of service does not suffer.

JimN
12-17-2005, 12:11 AM
It is the same ECM and plug, but I wouldn't hook the Power Commander to the boat. There's not much similarity in the fuel mapping, and it still has limits on what it will do for the bike.

Re: the hypothetical- since there are real customers with real dealer problems, let's stick with what's really happening with people's boats, OK?

The guy who brought the boat in for a tuneup after freezing/overheating actually happened. The week before Memorial Day weekend. Had a cracked block, bad head gasket, needed a new piston, etc. He got a loaner (MC that had been traded in) and liked it so much he traded his in and bought the MC. First time out after buying it, he overheated it.

h20winn
12-17-2005, 12:27 AM
I am not having much luck with my dealer as well. Ballast pumps, bildge pump, perfect pass issues... etc...

What is the right fix? Why things break just after the warranty expires...

Love the boat - but hate the run around when it come to repairs.. if in fact what they say is true.

Will Mastercraft relocate the paddlewheel for perfect pass to work correctly , can the relays be wired correctly for the ballast pumps so they work when they should and not intermittently...

Lots of questions.. but never the right answer to make a customer happy.

Love the boat... but why not deal with the problems and resolve them properly.

Thanks

Workin' 4 Toys
12-17-2005, 12:31 AM
I am not having much luck with my dealer as well. Ballast pumps, bildge pump, perfect pass issues... etc...

What is the right fix? Why things break just after the warranty expires...

Love the boat - but hate the run around when it come to repairs.. if in fact what they say is true.

Will Mastercraft relocate the paddlewheel for perfect pass to work correctly , can the relays be wired correctly for the ballast pumps so they work when they should and not intermittently...

Lots of questions.. but never the right answer to make a customer happy.

Love the boat... but why not deal with the problems and resolve them properly.

Thanks
Where are you located, it helps to get advice.

JDK
12-17-2005, 12:40 AM
My dealership is Tx Mastercraft.

Jimmy is great to me.

The biggest complaint most dealers make is simple to fix-RETURN CALLS!


I'll second this one.
VERY, VERY accomodating.

bigmac
12-17-2005, 01:02 AM
Re: the hypothetical- since there are real customers with real dealer problems, let's stick with what's really happening with people's boats, OK?



Sure Jim... OK..:rolleyes:

PendO
12-17-2005, 01:15 AM
Sure Jim... OK..:rolleyes:

:jumping: :jumping: ................. well, It would be nice to know, hell, maybe we could take our boats to the local HD dealer in a pinch if we need service:)

jkski
12-17-2005, 09:53 AM
OK, it's been said here over and over again, but COMMUNICATION IS KEY. If you are buying, selling or bringing a boat in for service and you are kept informed, there is no room to complain. Unfortunately, I understand that thisdoes not happen often enough.
Ask yourself this: If I brought my boat in for service in the middle of 90 degree July on a Monday morning and told the dealer what the issues were, when would you expect it back? As a customer, the answer is always "yesterday", if we are being honest. The reality is, that yes there are most likely other boats ahead of mine and then there is the question of whether or not the dealer will have the part to fix my boat, afterall, they can't stock everything. So, if the dealer makes a quick assessment of my boat by the end of the day, determines that they need to order a part, then proceeds to call me and tell me where things stand, I have no place to complain. If they fail to call for a few days, and I am left to wonder, then I become a PO'd customer.
It is simple communication......... "under promise, over deliver!
When you think you have done a good job of communicating, stop and do more, the customer will appreciate it and it will difuse a lot of bombs.

Footin
12-17-2005, 09:58 AM
JKSki,Did you use to have a yellow 197?

jkski
12-17-2005, 10:04 AM
JKSki,Did you use to have a yellow 197?

YEP.
Owned a 2002 PS197 that was yellow, sold it and ordered a 05 PS197, you guessed it, YELLOW and now the 05 is for sale and yep, most likely gonna order a YELLOW one again.

Have we met?

Footin
12-17-2005, 10:13 AM
Yes, I think we have met.

About two years ago, I was on my way back from the Bristol Nascar race and we stopped at the Tamerack service plaza in WV to get gas in the motorhome.You and your friend with a boat pulled into the pumps beside us. You and I spoke for a few minutes and I told you that I had a BF200 and use to live in Akron. You told me you were on your way back home from a weekend of skiing in Tennessee. Then we both head up 77 north.

If I remember correctly, you have a Tattoo of a set of barefeet on your calf.

jkski
12-17-2005, 10:19 AM
Yes, I think we have met.

About two years ago, I was on my way back from the Bristol Nascar race and we stopped at the Tamerack service plaza in WV to get gas in the motorhome.You and your friend with a boat pulled into the pumps beside us. You and I spoke for a few minutes and I told you that I had a BF200 and use to live in Akron. You told me you were on your way back home from a weekend of skiing in Tennessee. Then we both head up 77 north.

If I remember correctly, you have a Tattoo of a set of barefeet on your calf.

WOW..........
You have one heck of a memory, as that was several years ago, but you are correct and I recall the conversation. Yes, I do have the tat on my calf. So, when are you coming to Akron so that we can foot together?
Also, I'll be at the boat show this year, so let me know when you'll be there and maybe we can hook-up.
Small world.

Footin
12-17-2005, 10:21 AM
Yes it is a small world. Don't tell Sporty about this, he already thinks I know everybody.hahaha

I will let you know when I am going to the show at the IX Center.

Where do you ski? I use to foot at Berlin on Saturday mornings.

jkski
12-17-2005, 02:17 PM
Yes it is a small world. Don't tell Sporty about this, he already thinks I know everybody.hahaha

I will let you know when I am going to the show at the IX Center.

Where do you ski? I use to foot at Berlin on Saturday mornings.

Footin'
check your PM (I'll spare the thread the details)

Jim
12-17-2005, 06:40 PM
Ditto on not returning calls: Ordered the '06 rudder. Was told it would arive in 2 weeks. Never heard back. I called them and was told the rudder was there. I scheduled an appointment to go in. I could not make the appt., called and cancelled and asked to be called back to reschedule. Still have not heard back (been a week) and don't expect to be called back. I think I will pick the rudder up and put it in myself.
Ditto on inaccurate price quotes: Was told by the salesman it would be $129 to winterize. Thought that was too good to be true. Called to schedule it, was told it would be $149 to winterize. Thought that would be too good to be true. Took it in, was told it would be $199 to winterize + parts. The winterization did not include changeing oil or tans fluid, new spark plugs, impeller, etc. Had that done. My $129 winterization turned out to be $800+. AND... as soon as it was done I was told I needed to pick it up ASAP as they did not have room to store it. When I picked it up, it was sitting in the front parking lot, unsecured. Not too happy with my few experiences so far!

You would'nt happen to be talking about MC of Las Vegas? I had a interesting experience with them when they were so called " Just getting started". I guess some things never change. What a shame!

My local dealer ( California Skier) is Fantastic! No problems, no hassles, and the're nice people too.

vegashomeexpert
12-17-2005, 06:50 PM
That would be the place. Haven't given up on them, though. Still need to get that new rudder. We will see how they do with that job before I start driving to Cali for service.

Jim
12-17-2005, 06:59 PM
That would be the place. Haven't given up on them, though. Still need to get that new rudder. We will see how they do with that job before I start driving to Cali for service.

Hope everything works out for you.

bigmac
12-17-2005, 09:31 PM
That would be the place. Haven't given up on them, though. Still need to get that new rudder. We will see how they do with that job before I start driving to Cali for service.

FWIW, I ordered that '06 rudder and tiller arm about the same time you did, on 11/9, and my dealer called me on 12/07 to tell me it was in. As I've mentioned before, the word appears to be that MasterCraft tends to be slow shipping parts, at least occasionally (every time I've ordered a part, anyway), but it did arrive foamed into the shipping box with expanding foam. Very cool. The service manager detailed for me how to install the thing. If I remove the removable engine compartment panel, and unscrew one screw to take out the other rear engine compartment panel, getting the rudder in there and bolted up should be pretty easy without the silencer getting in the way.

While we're on the subject of this thread about dealer satisfaction, I should mention that my dealer gave me a very, very, VERY good price on this new rudder and tiller, but that's another story. Suffice it to say that I'll never buy another boat from any other dealer.

h20winn
12-18-2005, 03:33 AM
Northern Cal

TonyB
12-21-2005, 05:00 PM
I'm lucky enough to work 30 minutes south of Rambo Marine (Huntsville AL). Lex in the parts department is one of the most helpful and pleasant individuals you would ever hope to meet.

I visit Rambo's several times a year. I learn so much from talking to Lex (and others) that I always feel obligated to buy something (whether I need it or not).

east tx skier
12-21-2005, 06:25 PM
I'm lucky enough to work 30 minutes south of Rambo Marine (Huntsville AL). Lex in the parts department is one of the most helpful and pleasant individuals you would ever hope to meet.

I visit Rambo's several times a year. I learn so much from talking to Lex (and others) that I always feel obligated to buy something (whether I need it or not).

Lex is the man, for sure.

Footin
12-21-2005, 06:27 PM
I agree about Lex, he is a true "southern gentleman"

Scot
12-21-2005, 06:59 PM
1. People buy from people - take the time to forge a relationship. Make the customer feel like he/she is a part of the family. Every time one of your employees crosses the path of a customer or potential customer in the dealership, they should smile, say hello, and introduce themselves. If the owner is around, they should introduce themselves as well.... (Come out from your office) Let us know you appreciate our business and that you are here for us....
2. Sell at a fair price
3. Introduce the service and parts mgr into the process to show that your dealership works as a team and set proper expectations with regards to service timeframes. If there are known problems, take the lead. Don't pretend to "not know" about a common problems. (BTW, if your dealership doesn't work as a team fix it)
4. Learn what the customer is looking for and what our knowledge level is.... sometimes we don't know.... then educate us..
5. For those of us who are educated with your product, give us due respect and don't insult our intelligence by telling us we "look good in the boat" we already know that!
6. We are not buying a used car, don't hire people with a used car salesman attitude. (I don't know ANYONE who likes going to a car dealership)
7. Treat the person that can't really afford it, but has a dream of buying something as beautiful as a new MC, the same as the big wheeler dealer, gold nugget diamond ring wearing jack hole that doesn't care if the boat cost $40k or $60k. (yeah I know, these guys keep the business going)
8. Implement a quality control system within your dealership. If a boat comes in clean it should leave clean... etc. Document and over communicate to the customer what level of service they should receive! Ask the customer to rate your performance.
9. If we come into your store and leave without buying something, know the reason why.... Many times we are just looking and don't want or need any help. But you need to make sure we are not leaving because of a bad experience from miscommunication.
10. Be enthusiastic and well educated about your product.

Rockman
12-21-2005, 07:38 PM
1. People buy from people - take the time to forge a relationship. Make the customer feel like he/she is a part of the family. Every time one of your employees crosses the path of a customer or potential customer in the dealership, they should smile, say hello, and introduce themselves. If the owner is around, they should introduce themselves as well.... (Come out from your office) Let us know you appreciate our business and that you are here for us....
2. Sell at a fair price
3. Introduce the service and parts mgr into the process to show that your dealership works as a team and set proper expectations with regards to service timeframes. If there are known problems, take the lead. Don't pretend to "not know" about a common problems. (BTW, if your dealership doesn't work as a team fix it)
4. Learn what the customer is looking for and what our knowledge level is.... sometimes we don't know.... then educate us..
5. For those of us who are educated with your product, give us due respect and don't insult our intelligence by telling us we "look good in the boat" we already know that!
6. We are not buying a used car, don't hire people with a used car salesman attitude. (I don't know ANYONE who likes going to a car dealership)
7. Treat the person that can't really afford it, but has a dream of buying something as beautiful as a new MC, the same as the big wheeler dealer, gold nugget diamond ring wearing jack hole that doesn't care if the boat cost $40k or $60k. (yeah I know, these guys keep the business going)
8. Implement a quality control system within your dealership. If a boat comes in clean it should leave clean... etc. Document and over communicate to the customer what level of service they should receive! Ask the customer to rate your performance.
9. If we come into your store and leave without buying something, know the reason why.... Many times we are just looking and don't want or need any help. But you need to make sure we are not leaving because of a bad experience from miscommunication.
10. Be enthusiastic and well educated about your product.

AMEN! :headbang:

wakescene
12-22-2005, 05:13 PM
Yea so I am a little late here, sorry!

I have been burned, bent over, ignored, talked down to, sweet-talked, buttered up, and by some grace of god, was once leveled with by my MC dealer.

It is no secret to anyone that knows me, I don't like and refuse to even come in close contact with anyone related to the MC I bought from in 2001. I LOVE this boat (2001 MariStar 210VRS) and will be buying another MC in the next 1-2 years, but I loathe even going to the NYC Intl boat show because I know that is the show my dealers is going to be at.

My story is very long, but 2 seperate incidents were what broke the camels back.
1. Physical Damage, was caused by moronic low-skilled(probably not qualified) techs
2. Ordered a boat load (no pun) of parts, but the dealer was not smart enough to include the hardware or gaskets/filters required to complete the job...nor did they have in stock. Had to call another dealer and have them overnighted.

Lastly, In all the years I have had the boat, I have had to make all the calls to this dealer to initiate things, Never once have they ever called me first...NEVER. I gave them one last chance this spring...See #2 above for your answer!

In Summary,
Communication = Aweful
Quality of service = Aweful
General Presentaiton - On the surface = Amazing, below the surface = Aweful!

bcampbe7
12-22-2005, 05:23 PM
I'm lucky enough to work 30 minutes south of Rambo Marine (Huntsville AL). Lex in the parts department is one of the most helpful and pleasant individuals you would ever hope to meet.

I visit Rambo's several times a year. I learn so much from talking to Lex (and others) that I always feel obligated to buy something (whether I need it or not).

Here, here!
Lex is great! That entire dealership is amazing. Scooter does a great job of hosting events at his lake.

vegashomeexpert
12-22-2005, 06:00 PM
I'll be darned! I think someone at MasterCraft is pushing the button for dealers (at least mine) to improve their service. Just picked my boat up from having that fancy new (or is it "classic") rudder installed. While I am paying, the service manager shows me the invoice and asks it that was the price I was quoted. I said "yes". Then he askes if I mind filling out a survey about the service I received. I gave fair marks, finish paying, and he walks me out to help hitch up the boat. ("surprised I am" said Yoda). Then I ask if my old rudder is in the boat and he says, no, and goes and gets it. Not extraordinary, but certainly satisfactory, and way better than my previous experience. Hope it is not just the holiday spirit getting to them and this trend will last!

COSkier
12-23-2005, 05:29 PM
I picked up my boat today. It was in the shop for a fews weeks. The wrong parts were sent a few times. Am I upset? No. Am I happy? You betcha! After fighting with my trailer brakes for a year, I got 4 new calipers, a new rotor, and a new actuator. All under warranty (even though my trailer is a 2003). The only hard part was getting the dealer involved (It took a phone call to Mastercraft) after that, the service and communication from the dealer was great! The mechanic went above and beyond, keeping me informed of the status. Today is a great day! Mastercraft rocks and they stand behind there products! This is my second MC and my next boat will be a MC for sure. I thought I'd post a positive note and say "Thanks" to Mastercraft and my dealer. :banana:
Is winter over yet?
COSkier.

vegashomeexpert
12-23-2005, 08:17 PM
I see a trend here... 2 positive posts in a row! Things are looking up! :friday:

ecelis
12-24-2005, 05:56 PM
We bought our boat in Texas at the Texas Ski Ranch and, although I was initially worried because they had just opened and were working under a carport, I was very happy with the service. They always helped me promptly and always returned phone calls. They also helped me now twice after I moved to Florida by guiding me through some things on the phone... No wonder they are doing good now after only 4 years. They moved into a huge building now btw and got rid of the carport ;)

This brings me to my new dealer/MC service place in Orlando;
- first time I needed them (boat out: throttle cable broken) they told me to "try and call back in three weeks to make an appointment" (we wakeboard almost every day). No tech even bothered to talk to me on the phone and check what was really wrong with the boat. The guys at the TSR helped me out then by guiding me through on the phone and getting us back on the water the next day (Perfect pass cable broke, not throttle cable).
- fuel pump went out. One of the more common things on MCs I come to find out. The biggest MC dealer in the US does not have any fuel pumps in stock and has to order one. After the pump came in and making appointment, service was done in a timely manner. But in the end, it still kept us more than two weeks of the water.
- boat died today. Here in Florida, we still ride as much as possible... And I have a couple of days off next week, but they happily announce on their answering machine that they prefer not to care about their customers until Jan 3rd. I understand that they can not help me until Tuesday, but until next year ?!!?

I'm about to try another dealer, probably an extra 100 mile drive, but I do not think I will ever 'honor' this Orlando dealer with the purchase of a new boat. So I better find a good one before that time comes.

André
12-24-2005, 07:15 PM
Ecelis
What's wrong with your boat now?
This board is open year round for troubleshoothing...
Surely someone can help you before Jan 3 in the Orlando area.So much ski boat dealers and ski school in that area.
Good luck!
(You're already lucky to ride at Christmas time in my book!)

atlfootr
12-24-2005, 07:42 PM
Also, while I'm at it, I'll throw in a plug for Rambo Marine (www.rambomarine.com) I've picked up a fair amount of parts from them. Lex in the parts dept. is so great to talk to. Even if, for some reason, they don't have the part you're looking for, it's worth the call just to talk to him.
I'll second that! Let's just say this, I have a MC Dealer less than 30 mins. from my home. Their name's JOA MARINE -- I'd drive 3 1/2 - 4 hrs, to RAMBO MARINE in Hazel Green, AL. before I'd drive 30 minutes to JOA Marine in Buford.

Jim@BAWS
12-24-2005, 10:49 PM
Elecis,
Here it is Christmas Eve ! Bay Area WaterSports in Tampa
will make your holiday wish come true. We ARE OPEN. Just let us know
if we can be of help Arrange a time and maybe you will only need to make 1 trip. I PMd you but no direct email is available. Ask fir Chuck and let him know your situation

Jim @ Bay Area WaterSports jim.baws@verizon.net
(813) 996 2297

ecelis
12-25-2005, 02:47 AM
Good to hear there is a dealer that DOES. About 160 miles though, which is a good trip. But I'm willing to take it.

The problem with the boat;
I ran fine all day, perfect starting, no problems running at all, but right when we were done and pulled away from the dock to put it on the trailer, the engine died.
It cranks fine and seems to be willing to start but never realy does. You can hear it fire a couple of times in some cylinders it sounds like, but it never completely starts.
Gas tank is 3/4 full (visual inspection of the tank). Gas gauge is showing empty. It worked fine before so this is problably somewhat related to the problem. But when it was on the trailer (but still in the water), the gas gauge came back to life, but the engine still did not start. I did not listen to the fuel pump kicking in, I will try that tomorrow morning.

The fuel pump was replaced about 30 hours ago and we did not run empty. I have a feeling the problem is probably in that area, but I could be completely wrong of course...

erkoehler
12-25-2005, 05:41 AM
Check the electrical connection to the fuel pump too. I had a loose connection in the past, and it would only act up on occassion. Easy fix though.

Good Luck, merry Christmas and hope your back out there soon.

André
12-25-2005, 09:59 AM
Elecis,
Here it is Christmas Eve ! Bay Area WaterSports in Tampa
will make your holiday wish come true. We ARE OPEN. Just let us know
if we can be of help Arrange a time and maybe you will only need to make 1 trip. I PMd you but no direct email is available. Ask fir Chuck and let him know your situation

Jim @ Bay Area WaterSports jim.baws@verizon.net
(813) 996 2297

Again,BAWS come forward with a very nice offer! :headbang:
I hope Santa don't forget you Jim!

G-man
12-25-2005, 10:45 AM
If dealerships, cars and boats all had a survey you filled out when you picked up the car or boat maybe service would improve. think about it instant notification to the service manager that your not satisfied with what you just paid for. My Toyota dealership calls me within 2 days of picking up our car to check. I have known my service writer for twenty years and get great service.

ecelis
12-25-2005, 12:08 PM
The fuel pump runs. So that does not seem to be the problem, unless it runs but does not pump...

Ski-A-Rees
12-25-2005, 12:36 PM
My dealer is great but he is not big on renovation... unfortunately thats what my boat needed!

JimN
12-25-2005, 02:01 PM
ecelis- do you have access to a fuel pressure gauge? If not, Sears has one that comes with an adaptor for the Shrader valve on your fuel line. It also has a bleeder valve so air can be removed from the line before testing and you can use this when taking a fuel sample. I would recommend taking a sample (about 8oz) whenever you test the fuel pressure. This gives you a visual check for contaminants, like water or particulate stuff getting through/past the filter. Test the pressure with the key on, during crank, at idle and if you get it to run, on the water at 2000 RPM and WOT. These are the standard tests (during crank isn't as far as I know, but is still valid) and if you see the pressure drop significantly, you know there is an issue.

Since it ran and then stopped, do a visual inspection of the motor harnesses and wiggle the lanyard if it still doesn't want to run. There have been others with the same problem and the safety switch may be the cause.

BrianM
12-25-2005, 02:56 PM
We bought our boat in Texas at the Texas Ski Ranch and, although I was initially worried because they had just opened and were working under a carport, I was very happy with the service. They always helped me promptly and always returned phone calls. They also helped me now twice after I moved to Florida by guiding me through some things on the phone... No wonder they are doing good now after only 4 years. They moved into a huge building now btw and got rid of the carport ;)

This brings me to my new dealer/MC service place in Orlando;
- first time I needed them (boat out: throttle cable broken) they told me to "try and call back in three weeks to make an appointment" (we wakeboard almost every day). No tech even bothered to talk to me on the phone and check what was really wrong with the boat. The guys at the TSR helped me out then by guiding me through on the phone and getting us back on the water the next day (Perfect pass cable broke, not throttle cable).
- fuel pump went out. One of the more common things on MCs I come to find out. The biggest MC dealer in the US does not have any fuel pumps in stock and has to order one. After the pump came in and making appointment, service was done in a timely manner. But in the end, it still kept us more than two weeks of the water.
- boat died today. Here in Florida, we still ride as much as possible... And I have a couple of days off next week, but they happily announce on their answering machine that they prefer not to care about their customers until Jan 3rd. I understand that they can not help me until Tuesday, but until next year ?!!?

I'm about to try another dealer, probably an extra 100 mile drive, but I do not think I will ever 'honor' this Orlando dealer with the purchase of a new boat. So I better find a good one before that time comes.

Make the drive down to see Jim and Chuck at BAWS in Land O Lakes. I am sure they will take care of you.

djhuff
12-27-2005, 09:01 AM
ecelis
those are the exact same symptoms from when my fuel pump died. Pump ran, but no pressure.

I was in and out of my dealer in about 2 hours, and I had to drive to go get the part, but it was a weekend.

ecelis
12-29-2005, 08:10 PM
We embarked on the 3h15min drive today to BAWS in Land 'o Lakes and have not regretted it. They promised us on the phone that they would take care of us and they did. We dropped the boat off around 10, talked a bit with Jim while they looked at the problem and then we went out for lunch. Came back at 1 and the boat was sitting ready waiting for us, including the paperwork. They even replaced a bad jack and a bad tail light on the trailer...
We will bring our boating business to the dealer that deserves it, even if it means a big roadtrip every time. And these guys know how to make a customer happy, so for our next service, repair... new Mastercraft we will drive to the Tampa area.

So thanks to BAWS we will be riding tomorrow, and the day after and the day after.... :woohoo:

bigmac
12-29-2005, 08:18 PM
ecelis
those are the exact same symptoms from when my fuel pump died. Pump ran, but no pressure.

I was in and out of my dealer in about 2 hours, and I had to drive to go get the part, but it was a weekend.

I had the same thing happen - fuel pump died - late at night on July 3rd, while the boat had 2 hours on it. I called the dealer at 9am on July 4th, took the boat up there. He called one of his service techs in on that holiday, they pulled a fuel pump out of a new boat on the sales floor, had me back on the water by that afternoon.

BrianM
12-29-2005, 08:46 PM
BAWS in Land 'o Lakes... They even replaced a bad jack and a bad tail light on the trailer...
.

Hmmm, I bought a boat from that Jim@BAWS guy and all he did was handed me a roll of tape and gave me grief when the plug wires on the trailer were to short. He must have seen the error in his ways.... ;)

André
12-29-2005, 09:27 PM
We embarked on the 3h15min drive today to BAWS in Land 'o Lakes and have not regretted it. They promised us on the phone that they would take care of us and they did. We dropped the boat off around 10, talked a bit with Jim while they looked at the problem and then we went out for lunch. Came back at 1 and the boat was sitting ready waiting for us, including the paperwork. They even replaced a bad jack and a bad tail light on the trailer...
We will bring our boating business to the dealer that deserves it, even if it means a big roadtrip every time. And these guys know how to make a customer happy, so for our next service, repair... new Mastercraft we will drive to the Tampa area.

So thanks to BAWS we will be riding tomorrow, and the day after and the day after.... :woohoo:
Glad that Baws came through and that you can enjoy your boat now!
Jim's service is really great!
Was it another fuel pump?
have fun! :wavey:

ecelis
12-29-2005, 10:56 PM
Yes, the fuel pump went bad again.
They showed me the pump when they pulled it out and it did not look like a new pump to me (Liquid Sports put a 'new' pump in a couple of weeks ago). The top was dirty and the pump itself was all rusted on the outside. We always fill the boat before we park it, and the most the boat sits still is a couple of days, so this rust must have been on the pump before it was put in. The pump also has a 2003 date on it, making it hard to believe that this is a new pump that I had to wait on more than a week to order it.

So my verdict; Liquid Sports put an old pump in my boat, charging the extended warranty company for a new one and leaving me stranded with a bad pump again after just a couple of weeks right when they decide to turn their back to their customers for more than a week during the Holidays :mad:

André
12-29-2005, 11:05 PM
Yes, the fuel pump went bad again.
They showed me the pump when they pulled it out and it did not look like a new pump to me (Liquid Sports put a 'new' pump in a couple of weeks ago). The top was dirty and the pump itself was all rusted on the outside. We always fill the boat before we park it, and the most the boat sits still is a couple of days, so this rust must have been on the pump before it was put in. The pump also has a 2003 date on it, making it hard to believe that this is a new pump that I had to wait on more than a week to order it.

So my verdict; Liquid Sports put an old pump in my boat, charging the extended warranty company for a new one and leaving me stranded with a bad pump again after just a couple of weeks right when they decide to turn their back to their customers for more than a week during the Holidays :mad:
Wow!Was everything still under warranty now?

Jim@BAWS
12-30-2005, 10:02 AM
Hmmm, I bought a boat from that Jim@BAWS guy and all he did was handed me a roll of tape and gave me grief when the plug wires on the trailer were to short. He must have seen the error in his ways.... ;)

C'mon Brian...Mr Paperwork !!! :eek:

He would not let us touch his "WORK OF ART" splice job :toast:
I offered a JOB to Brian if we where to open a Shrink Wrap Department in Tampa, 5 rolls of duct tape later he was finally on the road HA HA HA

Thanks for the support :dance:

Jim@BAWS

vegashomeexpert
12-30-2005, 11:34 AM
C'mon Brian...Mr Paperwork !!! :eek:

He would not let us touch his "WORK OF ART" splice job :toast:
I offered a JOB to Brian if we where to open a Shrink Wrap Department in Tampa, 5 rolls of duct tape later he was finally on the road HA HA HA

Thanks for the support :dance:

Jim@BAWS
Always two sides to the story! How long is the drive from Vegas to Tampa to get work done on MY boat? :smile:

BrianM
12-30-2005, 12:50 PM
Just to make sure that everyone is clear I am just giving Jim a hard time. The whole trailer wiring, tape thing is a bit of an inside joke.

As I said above I was sure that Jim and Chuck would make ecelis happy and it sounds like they stepped up to the plate. Jim definately has a happy customer in me.

lakes Rick
01-02-2006, 01:37 PM
We bought our boat in Texas at the Texas Ski Ranch and, although I was initially worried because they had just opened and were working under a carport, I was very happy with the service. They always helped me promptly and always returned phone calls. They also helped me now twice after I moved to Florida by guiding me through some things on the phone... No wonder they are doing good now after only 4 years. They moved into a huge building now btw and got rid of the carport ;)

This brings me to my new dealer/MC service place in Orlando;
- first time I needed them (boat out: throttle cable broken) they told me to "try and call back in three weeks to make an appointment" (we wakeboard almost every day). No tech even bothered to talk to me on the phone and check what was really wrong with the boat. The guys at the TSR helped me out then by guiding me through on the phone and getting us back on the water the next day (Perfect pass cable broke, not throttle cable).
- fuel pump went out. One of the more common things on MCs I come to find out. The biggest MC dealer in the US does not have any fuel pumps in stock and has to order one. After the pump came in and making appointment, service was done in a timely manner. But in the end, it still kept us more than two weeks of the water.
- boat died today. Here in Florida, we still ride as much as possible... And I have a couple of days off next week, but they happily announce on their answering machine that they prefer not to care about their customers until Jan 3rd. I understand that they can not help me until Tuesday, but until next year ?!!?

I'm about to try another dealer, probably an extra 100 mile drive, but I do not think I will ever 'honor' this Orlando dealer with the purchase of a new boat. So I better find a good one before that time comes.

Hey Ecelis, I needed some of your product the other day and your message machine said you were out in your boat.. What kind of service is that??? Get the idea..
Its called the HOLIDAYS... People are supposed to slow down this time of the year.. I guess its OK for YOU to have the time off but nobody else better or YOUR GONNA BADMOUTH em.....

ecelis
01-07-2006, 11:55 AM
Just to close this story...

- BAWS got me back on the water by replacing the bad fuel pump over the Holidays.
- Liquid Sports called me during the Holidays to apologize and promise they would "set things straight".
- BAWS called me to ask me if the boat has been running right (another "+" in the service category).
- Just found out that LS payed BAWS for parts&labor.
- LS called me again to apologize. They also told me that they had not found out yet what went wrong in November when they put an OLD 'new' fuel pump in my boat.

So to put a positive conclusion to this story;
1) The General Management at Liquid Sports DOES care about their customers. I hope they can fix their service department so that this does not happen again and I get a feeling from talking to them that they are investigating. First step to being able to fix.
2) There is at least one GOOD dealer I can go to in Florida.

bigmac
01-07-2006, 12:25 PM
Just to close this story...

- BAWS got me back on the water by replacing the bad fuel pump over the Holidays.
- Liquid Sports called me during the Holidays to apologize and promise they would "set things straight".
- BAWS called me to ask me if the boat has been running right (another "+" in the service category).
- Just found out that LS payed BAWS for parts&labor.
- LS called me again to apologize. They also told me that they had not found out yet what went wrong in November when they put an OLD 'new' fuel pump in my boat.

So to put a positive conclusion to this story;
1) The General Management at Liquid Sports DOES care about their customers. I hope they can fix their service department so that this does not happen again and I get a feeling from talking to them that they are investigating. First step to being able to fix.
2) There is at least one GOOD dealer I can go to in Florida.

http://forums.aswp.net/images/smilies/two/thumbsup.gif

André
01-07-2006, 12:30 PM
Just out of curiousity, how did Liquid Sports come to be aware that you had it fixed elsewhere?
I think the boat is under warranty...Or somebody called them about it and told them the story was on this site... :confused:

Jim@BAWS
01-07-2006, 02:08 PM
Please don't anyone jump to conclusions on any info that you do not have in front of you! You do not have ALL THE FACTS! Liquid was told by us not someone else on the board !!!

Bay Area WaterSports values the relationship that we have with Liquid Sports. We have ALOT of the same customers that visit our locations. We actually share a couple of territories in sales therefore there IS ALOT of shopping that happens. We support Liquid Events they inturn support ours. It is a VERY GOOD business relationship. I felt it was important for Mark @Liquid to know what was going on. We both want the customer to be satisfied. Now if you want anymore info you can PM direct...just know the customer was taken care of and Liquid did infact call the customer to see if there was anything else that could be done.

END OF STORY on this one PLEASE. The customer was taken care of in a professional manner and is happy.

Thanks

Jim@BAWS

bigmac
01-07-2006, 03:36 PM
http://forums.aswp.net/images/smilies/two/thumbsup.gif

.

JohnnyB
01-07-2006, 03:58 PM
I certainly have enjoyed this thread.....my experience with my MC Dealer has been mixed at best. I'll write my experience from this summer objectively and you be the judge.....the original reason for brining the boat in was vibration in the drive shaft with the thought that i probably needed a shaft alignment.

Week #1 - brought boat in on Monday morning at opening. Boat got looked at on Wednesday. Svc mgr calls and tells me it was out of alignment and has chewed up the shaft and that I need a new shaft, packing gland and strut. I questioned TWICE the strut replacement but they insisted that the bushings were not replaceable. Total $1100.00. "We'll have it ready by the weekend".

Week #1 Friday @ 3pm, I call the dealer. I've decided to wait 'til Friday because I know they're busy and can get lots more done in the shop if I'm not calling every 10min asking about the progress of my boat. However, they tell me parts did not come in from MC and it will not be ready by the weekend. I tell them that it's not a big deal as long as its ready the following Thursday when we depart for a week-long ski vacation. The reply is 'no problem'.

Week #2 Wednesday. OK, I've heard nothing. Happen to drive by on my way in to work and see my boat still has the absense of a drive shaft and prop. Call them at noon. Get the report that parts are still not in but hopefully they'll be in today at 3pm. Chance it can still be ready for tomorrow.

Week #2 Thursday at 2pm. No call from the dealer, yet. I'd better call. Dealer report is parts are not in, expected at 3pm. If they come in we might have it ready by Monday. OK, I'm still going to load up the family and leave tonight, will drive back 170mi on Monday to get it. Please call me tomorrow with an update.

Week #2 Friday at 3pm. Call from dealer. Boat is finished and water tested. Bill will be $1258.00. We had to do some unexpected cleanup of the motor mounts. Can we meet you 1/2 way with the boat? I decided if I left at 5am, I'd get there at opening and be back and on the water by noon -- nope, I'll just come get it. Please save the parts for me...I'd like them back.

Week #2. Saturday at 1pm. I am motoring away from the landing and my boat isn't idling worth crap. Dock it at the cabin, open the cover and start looking things over. Spark plug wire is nicked down to bare wire right....nick is right next to engine lift ring...hmmm...wonder how that happened???? Go to nearest dealer and get new wire set for $35.

Then, after returning home from vacation, I put the strut on my workbench and with wood block and hammer, tapped out the strut bearings that weren't replaceable.

I have not spoken with the dealer since and am in search of service elsewhere.

River Rat
01-07-2006, 04:02 PM
I don't know how good my dealer is, I haven't had to use him yet :D

Impellers and such I buy at my local boat shop so I don't have to drive to the nort side of Houston.


I LOVE MY MC

JohnnyB
01-07-2006, 04:04 PM
I'll follow that story up with the fact that when I was looking for a used ski boat. The dealer sales person was extremely helpful. An avid skiier himself, he gave me good suggestions on tournament ski boats that fit my budget and intended uses...MC and other. He also helped me arrive at 'fair prices' for private party boats I was looking at. He was very helpful and would surely get my business again, except he no longer works there.

SKI*MC
01-07-2006, 04:04 PM
hmm, that really does suck. JohnnyB Could you PM me with the dealer name. I think i know what dealer you are talking about...

Laurel_Lake_Skier
01-22-2006, 11:45 PM
A positive story on a dealer that "did right by me".

After buying my MC from a private party several years ago, I found the prop shaft needed alignment. After it was suggested here that I not go to an area MC dealer (now gone) I stopped in to an area Malibu dealer (Tinus Marine) and spoke to the owner. He said they would be happy to service the boat for me and verbally quoted me "about $80" to line up the propshaft and repack the stuffing box. When I went in to pick the boat up, he happened to be in the service area and told me how the mechanics spent half a day on the alignment. The mounts on the '91 must not have been moved since leaving the factory..... they had a tough time with them. In spite of the time taken, he told the service manager to charge me the $80 and laughed saying that he would have to think twice in the future before throwing out a price off the top of his head.

JimN
01-23-2006, 11:34 AM
I assume Mr Boat Dealer told you that the bushings aren't replaceable because he doesn't stock them, or maybe the person who wrote the service order just doesn't know. Either way, they blew it. I assume they couldn't separate the old shaft from the coupler if they needed to lift the motor. I would have cut the shaft, it would have been a lot faster and the plug wire wouldn't have been whanged.

Laurel Lake- Tinus is usually pretty good about things like these and in wanting to get your boat done without jacking the price up, even though it took extra time, they were being a good dealer for you, their own reputation and as a 'Bu dealer. Generally, if the people at a dealership have a little particle of brain in their head, they think of these things and that you might just want to buy something big from them. They and some other dealers in the area get it. The last owners of Comp didn't after those of us who did, were forced out.

AIRCANX09
01-30-2006, 10:12 AM
A slight deviation towards "best". Last Sat. night our dealer held an open house in their building. A catered affair with lots of games, a cascar challenge, gib=ve aways. It was a great event. They also shoed their 2006 line up, and man the Maristar 280 is some big. Best part was tehy had a Mastercraft DVD that they gave to all when you left. It's titled "Rewind 2006" and if your dealer has copies I would get one. It contains lots of great footage from the PWT as well as Slalom/Jumping competitions. I watched it 3 times already!