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ssnaples
07-21-2014, 10:03 AM
I have 2007 Mastercraft X2 with the current ballast setup:

Front: 400lbs. stock + 500lbs. lead weight = 900lbs.
Port - Rear: 250lbs. stock + 455lbs. piggy back sack = 705 lbs.
Starboard - Rear: 250lbs. stock + 455lbs. piggy back sack = 705 lbs.
Total Weight: 2,310 lbs.

Surf Speed:
10.6 mph

For the last year, I have never been able to get a really clean surfable wave... until now! At 6'2" and 210 lbs. we have previously had to list the boat to the surf side and cram as many people as possible into the corner. This made the wave surfable, but the boat had a scary lean to one side with water approaching the top corner of the boat. To top it off, the wave was always mushy with no lip.

After many hours of researching the different wake enhancement systems out there, I have come up with a quick and easy method of providing a great surf wave. I have not seen anyone try this setup with a Mastercraft, but I could be wrong. So I thought I would share my success for anyone attempting something similar. This is still a work in progress, but the prototype is pretty amazing.

I am calling this apparatus (for now): the "Wake-Shaper". This is basically a completely removable and adjustable tab that works with the principles of delayed convergence that produces a remarkably clean and surfable wave, with quite a bit of push. Installs in about 10 seconds. I can now free-ride with only a driver and observer in the boat. No more listing to one side or shifting people around. Just fill all of the ballast and let everyone sit comfortably in the boat, then surf! Check out a quick video I made of the initial tests over the 4th of July weekend (sorry the video is a bit shaky):

http://youtu.be/EaazgqRHhMs

If anyone has any questions or suggestions I would love to hear what you think.

rydog
07-21-2014, 10:18 AM
Pictures of the device? How/where does it attach to?

ssnaples
07-21-2014, 10:24 AM
Sorry, I don't have any pictures of the device right now, but you can see it in the video. It simply sandwiches in between the swim platform and the transom. It also goes around the swim platform bracket and is held in place with a rope attached to a hook on the transom. I will post some additional pictures once I develop it a bit further.

SpokaneSteve
07-21-2014, 10:29 AM
I have also seen this, mostly made for Malibus now:


http://www.wickedwakesurf.com/index.html

Cheers, Steve.

rydog
07-21-2014, 10:30 AM
Sounds good, I am very interested. Wonder how it would be going between different boats, or would one have to be designed for each boat specifically?

ssnaples
07-21-2014, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the link Steve! I hadn't seen that one before. I wonder if they make it for different boats? Has anyone talked about it here in the MC forums?

rydog,
I developed this specifically for my 2007 X2. As it is simply held in place between the transom and swim platform and matches the curvature of the hull, I think it would be specific for each year, make, and model. But for anyone with a 2007 X2, I think this is worth experimenting with.

dvsone79
07-21-2014, 11:00 AM
Nice work! In the video it looks like you're attaching the device on the starboard side but when underway the port side wake cleans up. Can you attach it to either side?

FoggyNogginz
07-21-2014, 11:00 AM
It seems like a simple idea that could be easily retrofitted. I met a guy on Norris lake with a home made version of this over the weekend too. Seems like a great improvement to any surf boat.

The video shows you placing this on the starboard side, and then shows a port side surf wave. Is this correct??

CantRepeat
07-21-2014, 11:43 AM
Are you weighting both port and starboard at the same time?

Blmeanie
07-21-2014, 11:59 AM
pm sent

tcmercil
07-21-2014, 01:39 PM
I traded a few emails with the Wicked surf folks... sounds like Malibu/Axis only right now. I figured it's a matter of time before people start building things like this in their garage... it'll be interesting to see what happen as we all try out new methods....

markmcfarland
07-21-2014, 02:09 PM
How deep does it go? I have an xstar and haven't figured out how to deal with the stepped bottom.

Mark
07-21-2014, 03:07 PM
If anybody builds one of these for an Xstar 2008 hull please post the specs.

Aric'sX15
07-21-2014, 03:09 PM
I have also seen this, mostly made for Malibus now:


http://www.wickedwakesurf.com/index.html

Cheers, Steve.

better be careful. malibu might sue them :D

ssnaples
07-21-2014, 08:30 PM
Nice work! In the video it looks like you're attaching the device on the starboard side but when underway the port side wake cleans up. Can you attach it to either side?

This is correct. It is called delayed convergence. by placing the gate on the starboard side, it cleans up the wake on the port side. I have not made one to attach on the port side yet, as myself and most of my riders are regular footed and ride port side. I assume that it will work equally well on either side, although I have read in other forums that the starboard side is much harder to clean up. I will make one this weekend and post some results

ttu
07-21-2014, 08:34 PM
please post some pictures of what you made.

ssnaples
07-21-2014, 08:34 PM
better be careful. malibu might sue them :D

Why these manufacturers have not come out with an affordable (I know, that word should never be mentioned around boating equipment) retrofit solution is beyond me. They are so worried about tabs being deployed over a certain speed and getting sued. This could be a huge market if people just got off the sue happy bandwagon and let people be creative so that everyone can enjoy this growing sport without owing a $140k wake monster.

Utisnumber1
07-21-2014, 08:37 PM
Thought I would chime in here on the wickedwakesurf gate. I have both gates on my malibu and the things are absolutely awesome!! They make a gate for each side. It not only cleans up the wave but extends the pocket. 5 to 8 ft. I used to list the boat however with the wickedwakesurf Now i just fill all of my factory ballast full lower my wedge half way down and go. I'll get you guys some pics and vids. I encourage you guys to get into contact with Joe at wickedwakesurf. It shouldn't be to long before they start making them for the mastercraft s!! But you have to let them know your interested!!

Case

ssnaples
07-21-2014, 08:37 PM
How deep does it go? I have an xstar and haven't figured out how to deal with the stepped bottom.

I will take some pictures of it attached out of the water so you can get a general idea. It is a very simple solution. Took all of about $20 in materials. I am all for helping people out. If you are interested in detailed specs. PM me and we work something out.

ttu
07-21-2014, 08:47 PM
I will take some pictures of it attached out of the water so you can get a general idea. It is a very simple solution. Took all of about $20 in materials. I am all for helping people out. If you are interested in detailed specs. PM me and we work something out.

sent you a pm!

ssnaples
07-21-2014, 10:34 PM
Are you weighting both port and starboard at the same time?

Yes, I currently have all of the ballast completely full front/rear/port/starboard. 40% front - 60% rear ratio. No longer any need to weight just one side. I will have an opportunity in a couple weeks as I head out to the lake for a guys trip. We will have about 8 guys (estimate another +/- 1600 lbs) then we can really play with shifting weight around to see what kind of wave we can get. I will post more pics soon as well as some surfing video. I'm still new to wakesurfing, but I love it! I think I love the challenge of dialing in a perfect wave more than actual surfing right now..... nah... I just love surfing and being on the water!

markmcfarland
07-22-2014, 08:19 AM
I will take some pictures of it attached out of the water so you can get a general idea. It is a very simple solution. Took all of about $20 in materials. I am all for helping people out. If you are interested in detailed specs. PM me and we work something out.


Sent you a pm

rydog
07-22-2014, 12:40 PM
I have also seen this, mostly made for Malibus now:


http://www.wickedwakesurf.com/index.html

Cheers, Steve.

Anyone in the Atlanta area with a 205V hull that would get templates made by them? haha I am too far away...

SpokaneSteve
07-22-2014, 01:11 PM
This is from Wickedwake:

"Thank you so much for your inquiry! We have done a Mastercraft build but it was for an X15, the only template we have for Mastercraft is based on that boat. We could do a custom build if you're local but for a new boat we need access to the boat. You're welcome to make your own. I know there are plenty of people out there who have come up with something themselves. Thank you so much for the inquiry, let me know if you have any other questions.

Mollie"

my brother and I may try to put something together to try it out.

Cheers, Steve.

G-Star
07-22-2014, 01:49 PM
Very cool idea. I'm interested in developing something for a 205V hull as well.

Is anybody willing to share the approximate angles of the gate relative to the water as a starting point?
The yaw angle of the gate relative to the longitudinal axis of the boat.
The roll angle of the gate relative to the surface of the water.

FoggyNogginz
07-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Why these manufacturers have not come out with an affordable (I know, that word should never be mentioned around boating equipment) retrofit solution is beyond me. They are so worried about tabs being deployed over a certain speed and getting sued. This could be a huge market if people just got off the sue happy bandwagon and let people be creative so that everyone can enjoy this growing sport without owing a $140k wake monster.

I actually think it's more about wanting you to buy a new boat where the profits are higher. Retrofits could certainly be done, but new features sell boats. My $0.02

04 Star Rider
07-22-2014, 02:45 PM
Please post pics when you have time. I am very interested and will be making one of these for my 04 star

rydog
07-22-2014, 03:18 PM
This is from Wickedwake:

"Thank you so much for your inquiry! We have done a Mastercraft build but it was for an X15, the only template we have for Mastercraft is based on that boat. We could do a custom build if you're local but for a new boat we need access to the boat. You're welcome to make your own. I know there are plenty of people out there who have come up with something themselves. Thank you so much for the inquiry, let me know if you have any other questions.

Mollie"

my brother and I may try to put something together to try it out.

Cheers, Steve.


Yeah they said a similar thing to me. But if there is someone in the area with MC's they can develop it on that mastercraft hull and will then have a template to produce for anyone else.

rgardjr1
07-22-2014, 06:00 PM
Sent you a pm. I'd love to build one for my week of vacation that starts this Saturday.

Traxx822
07-22-2014, 07:51 PM
This does almost what the back of my boat actually looks like.

I've been saying this for a while. It's the steep lip from hull to transom. It makes a very turbulent wash, that with enough weight could throw a decent wake. But tons of weight. Then there the boat like mine where there is no step or transom really. As the rub rail goes to the water line and the hull meets the water line. Creating a smooth transition. Resulting in what many have compared my wake with half the ballast to much bigger models.

These gates seem to do the same thing, just allow the water to be less turbulent when leaving the apex of the hull/transom transition.

Soon you will see swooped transom that aren't such a 90 angle with the hull. Or at least add on devices that do the same thing. Mark my words.

CantRepeat
07-22-2014, 10:13 PM
Yes, I currently have all of the ballast completely full front/rear/port/starboard. 40% front - 60% rear ratio. No longer any need to weight just one side. I will have an opportunity in a couple weeks as I head out to the lake for a guys trip. We will have about 8 guys (estimate another +/- 1600 lbs) then we can really play with shifting weight around to see what kind of wave we can get. I will post more pics soon as well as some surfing video. I'm still new to wakesurfing, but I love it! I think I love the challenge of dialing in a perfect wave more than actual surfing right now..... nah... I just love surfing and being on the water!

I'm sorry you are engaging in a sausage fest; please no swimsuit thread post of such an outing!! (yup, it was me!)

Well, it seems what you have done is made an after market gen 2 surf/gate type system that needs some manual effort. While the X2 isn't the best of surf platforms you seem to have made something that works.

ssnaples
07-23-2014, 01:42 AM
I have had a huge amount of interest in this and by popular demand I have attached a few pics of the prototype. Based on the pics alone, you would probably be able to make one. Although it is manually operated, it takes about 10 seconds to setup and has 5 deployment angles to suit your ballast setup and riding style. It does not require any drilling, bolting, or mounting, and so far it has had no adverse effect on the gelcoat.

If anyone is interested in a set made specifically for the X2, please send me a PM. The one that you see is made out of 3/4" plywood. The final design will be made out of 3/4" HDPE and stainless steel/aluminum hardware. A set of 2 will be required if you want to be able to surf both sides of the wake. If you don't want to pull the trigger for both, simply grab one for the side you ride and test it out. If you like it as much as I do, grab one for the other side. Any additional questions, please feel free to PM me.

nickespi
07-23-2014, 02:34 AM
What is that adjustable arm you are using?

dt37803
07-23-2014, 07:26 AM
The pivot points for the arm look like a swivel caster with the wheel removed. The arm looks like a tent pole. My concern would be padding it as to not mark up the gel coat.

geordie-wake
07-23-2014, 07:44 AM
The pivot points for the arm look like a swivel caster with the wheel removed. The arm looks like a tent pole. My concern would be padding it as to not mark up the gel coat.

definitely swivel castors the arm could be a cut down walking stick, padding would be a simple modification maybe a toolchest draw liner or similar glued to the piece that rests against the gelcoat.

Thanks ssnaples for the photos and idea I'm searching for suitable parts now to try this on my 205v :toast:

nickespi
07-23-2014, 07:57 AM
The pivot points for the arm look like a swivel caster with the wheel removed. The arm looks like a tent pole. My concern would be padding it as to not mark up the gel coat.

definitely swivel castors the arm could be a cut down walking stick, padding would be a simple modification maybe a toolchest draw liner or similar glued to the piece that rests against the gelcoat.

Thanks ssnaples for the photos and idea I'm searching for suitable parts now to try this on my 205v :toast:

Ahh, you're right guys. I see it now. Thanks

dt37803
07-23-2014, 08:11 AM
I have had a huge amount of interest in this and by popular demand I have attached a few pics of the prototype. Based on the pics alone, you would probably be able to make one. Although it is manually operated, it takes about 10 seconds to setup and has 5 deployment angles to suit your ballast setup and riding style. It does not require any drilling, bolting, or mounting, and so far it has had no adverse effect on the gelcoat.

If anyone is interested in a set made specifically for the X2, please send me a PM. The one that you see is made out of 3/4" plywood. The final design will be made out of 3/4" HDPE and stainless steel/aluminum hardware. A set of 2 will be required if you want to be able to surf both sides of the wake. If you don't want to pull the trigger for both, simply grab one for the side you ride and test it out. If you like it as much as I do, grab one for the other side. Any additional questions, please feel free to PM me.

You must be a design engineer by day !:D

clrussell
07-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Well now I'm interested for someone to do this to an x star.. I might have to give it a go for the weekend to see what happens.. Looks easy enough!

ac505
07-23-2014, 10:16 AM
how about using a stainless eye to eye turnbuckle, infinite adjustment and readily available. The roll angle looks to be pretty much perpindicular to the gunwales. It would be a little trickier to adjust this on the fly. I'd be inclined to initially try to go with parallel to the transom, until an optimal angle, width and height could be achieved, then start to play with the roll angle.

ssnaples
07-23-2014, 11:00 AM
definitely swivel castors the arm could be a cut down walking stick, padding would be a simple modification maybe a toolchest draw liner or similar glued to the piece that rests against the gelcoat.

Thanks ssnaples for the photos and idea I'm searching for suitable parts now to try this on my 205v :toast:

your observation is indeed correct! As it is, there is no need to put any padding against the gelcoat. believe it or not, there is not much movement. It is wedged between the platform and transom. The pressure against the tab also helps seat it in place. I also have a strap attached to the eyelet as an added safety measure, but that isn't really even needed.

VP46
07-23-2014, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geordie-wake View Post
definitely swivel castors the arm could be a cut down walking stick, padding would be a simple modification maybe a toolchest draw liner or similar glued to the piece that rests against the gelcoat.

Thanks ssnaples for the photos and idea I'm searching for suitable parts now to try this on my 205v

Keep your 205V peers updated! I'd love to have one but not quite ready to tackle a scratch build without a Guinea pig! :)

rydog
07-23-2014, 01:03 PM
What are the rough dimensions of the tab?

NatesGr8
07-23-2014, 01:35 PM
Well looks like i'll be making one of these for my X45 over the next few days and giving it a shot. Great idea! I too would be interested in rough dimensions, and for the side angle of the tab did you just match the hull?

rydog
07-23-2014, 03:24 PM
Also how did you determine the angle of the tab up and down? It looks like it is matching the hull and angled slightly downwards?

monsterwake
07-23-2014, 03:40 PM
Also how did you determine the angle of the tab up and down? It looks like it is matching the hull and angled slightly downwards?

Yeah, how did you know what shape/size to use? This is awesome.

FoggyNogginz
07-23-2014, 05:08 PM
Over on the MalibuCrew forum, some of the guys are building these out of Lenco surf tab kits and attaching kitchen cutting boards or Lexan Polycarbonate to the actuators.

Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLAR-GRAY-POLYCARBONATE-MAKROLON-1-2-x-23-7-8X-15-7-8-/360326304915?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e51f1493

I'd love to give this a shot myself, but I don't really want a Malibu.

Ryan
07-23-2014, 09:04 PM
Over on the MalibuCrew forum, some of the guys are building these out of Lenco surf tab kits and attaching kitchen cutting boards or Lexan Polycarbonate to the actuators.

Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLAR-GRAY-POLYCARBONATE-MAKROLON-1-2-x-23-7-8X-15-7-8-/360326304915?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e51f1493

I'd love to give this a shot myself, but I don't really want a Malibu.

There are also some less expensive options in HDPE. While white is probably the cheapest, you can get black, red etc to match your gel coat, a look I think I'd prefer over the smoked/grey polycarbonate. Plus it has a little give, less brittle.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ILHWAM/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

zamboniman
07-24-2014, 09:47 AM
Does your x2 have the wakeplate?

rydog
07-24-2014, 12:37 PM
What is the "XRT" rope mechanism you are using? I am trying to find something like that

Disregard that post....I apologize I found it...

_ds_
07-24-2014, 12:48 PM
I have 2013 X2 with the gen 1 system. It is good, but not great. I would like to try out something like this and see what I can do to clean up the wake.

pm sent

ShamrockIV
07-24-2014, 01:36 PM
keep us all posted. As u can tell, the guys with "older boats" are always looking to improve. i was looking at this on a malibu and wondered if it could be done for MC> i notice when i am surfin the platforn cutting into the wake and it has to be screwing up the shape of it.

thamax
07-24-2014, 02:55 PM
There has been several setups! I built one 2 years ago worked decent but it never surfed starboard very good. My current setup is a copycat of the gen 2 system and we surf both sides! I will get a pic up when Photobucket works!

http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u379/thamax/IMG_0232_zps61f5ed49.jpg (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/thamax/media/IMG_0232_zps61f5ed49.jpg.html)

http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u379/thamax/IMG_0234_zps5912baf9.jpg (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/thamax/media/IMG_0234_zps5912baf9.jpg.html)

FoggyNogginz
07-24-2014, 03:12 PM
keep us all posted. As u can tell, the guys with "older boats" are always looking to improve. i was looking at this on a malibu and wondered if it could be done for MC> i notice when i am surfin the platforn cutting into the wake and it has to be screwing up the shape of it.

Shamrock - I think this would move the water past the platform, and this is another reason that I want to give it a shot. Let me know if you want to get together with a jigsaw and a 12 pack to see what we can do. I live in MJ.

ssnaples
07-24-2014, 03:16 PM
keep us all posted. As u can tell, the guys with "older boats" are always looking to improve. i was looking at this on a malibu and wondered if it could be done for MC> i notice when i am surfin the platforn cutting into the wake and it has to be screwing up the shape of it.

I am in the process of creating the port side gate. I picked up some HDPE and am using all stainless steel hardware. I will test it out this weekend to see how surfable the starboard side is. Hope to post more pics and video on Monday. I have already had quite a few people express interest in some gates, so I am working on them as quick as possible. If there is enough interest, I will have a batch machined (final product will be much nicer).

I also noticed that my platform looked like it was messing up the wake, which is why I went through the process of creating this gate. It doesn't seem to have an effect anymore.

ssnaples
07-24-2014, 03:25 PM
Does your x2 have the wakeplate?

No attitude adjustment plate or surf tabs. All stock ballast plus 1 - 455lb sac in each rear locker

Correct me if I am wrong, but the premise of the tabs is to introduce lean into the boat while under way. Example: To surf port side, you put the center tab at 50% down and starboard side at 100% down. Does this make the boat list to the port side and create the wave?

With the gates, there is no listing. It simply shifts the wave (delayed convergence). At least that's my basic understanding. Someone with more technical background might be able to explain in more detail.

zamboniman
07-24-2014, 04:21 PM
Yeah I was just curious of the center attitude adjustment plate and if it was part of the results you were getting. Mine doesn't have it. But I've read comments where a little bit of plate makes the wave better. It was in some discussion around Gen2 where it was necessary for the middle plate to get a clean wave.

VP46
07-24-2014, 05:54 PM
For the record.... I would prefer this to Gen1 2 or 3.... simply becuase to get my boat in the garage I need the swim removed and the transome against the wall. This removable gate deal... well it is literally the only way I can do it! (outside of more fat sacs)

rydog
07-24-2014, 07:37 PM
I am pretty curious about the fact that the boat is weighted evenly with this tab. Is it only effective with the boat weighted evenly? Or will it be effective with the boat weighted to one side? This will be awesome if it works with even weight which = a level boat and no worry for special weighting and still getting a good wave. And if it also works well with a boat weighted on one side to = an amazing wave!

thamax
07-24-2014, 07:56 PM
the prop wash was the biggest problem starboard side!

ssnaples
07-24-2014, 08:24 PM
I am pretty curious about the fact that the boat is weighted evenly with this tab. Is it only effective with the boat weighted evenly? Or will it be effective with the boat weighted to one side? This will be awesome if it works with even weight which = a level boat and no worry for special weighting and still getting a good wave. And if it also works well with a boat weighted on one side to = an amazing wave!

Yes, the boat is weighted evenly. That's probably the biggest advantage for me as the boat is not leaning dangerously close to the water and everyone can sit comfortably without jamming themselves into a corner. I also get to use all of the ballast in the boat, not just half of the system. To top it all off it makes a clean wave with good lip. Until this gate, I have always had to ride with about 6 people to get a wave decent enough to stay up. With this device I am able to free ride with just a driver and 1 observer in the boat! And I am 210lbs.

ssnaples
07-24-2014, 08:26 PM
the prop wash was the biggest problem starboard side!

This is the same thing that I have heard from a lot of people. Goofy people always get screwed :( I will hopefully get a chance to test out the starboard side on Sunday.

VP46
07-24-2014, 08:29 PM
Interesting - very much want one! (port side - maybe a Starboard side too)

ShamrockIV
07-25-2014, 11:49 AM
Shamrock - I think this would move the water past the platform, and this is another reason that I want to give it a shot. Let me know if you want to get together with a jigsaw and a 12 pack to see what we can do. I live in MJ.

pm headed ur way

thamax
07-25-2014, 12:26 PM
run without your platform and see. bet its not much different! You could trim your swim deck. wakegate works but it doesn't make the pocket much better behind the star. i've seen a x-2 with a nice setup! on ksl for sale and works better then my experiments! the delta pad hull does some weird stuff at low speeds that's why it handles the way it does! one thing my pocket is now 5 ft long!

http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u379/thamax/345589-1405614392-880402_zpsf4cb8069.jpg (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/thamax/media/345589-1405614392-880402_zpsf4cb8069.jpg.html)


here is the guys sales link and the system worked well and looked factory
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&sid=72770&ad=30749946

clrussell
07-25-2014, 04:28 PM
Just picked up all the pieces to build this today.. Guess I'll see if I can finish it tonight and see how it works tomorrow!

clrussell
07-26-2014, 11:21 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/ameza5uv.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/a2ata6aj.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/a2yzu3um.jpg

nickespi
07-26-2014, 12:12 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/ameza5uv.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/a2ata6aj.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/a2yzu3um.jpg

Seriously! Even weight? I'm doing this the second I get home.

jackpita
07-26-2014, 12:39 PM
Can we see the backing plate against the transom?

02ProstarSammyD
07-26-2014, 06:33 PM
Finished mine today on my x2. Here's some pics. I built mine a hair different.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s521/williamburell/70E716E0-45B2-48E7-99A7-E5BC2E96311A_zpsxmvyr7ih.jpg
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s521/williamburell/1E2C541A-FE33-4E44-9FBA-F4581108D77C_zpsijrjyuku.jpg
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s521/williamburell/FAEF4401-7A60-477B-AC90-88E31084BB61_zpsqdtxceyj.jpg

VP46
07-26-2014, 07:07 PM
I looked closely at my 205v hulled star and there does not appear to be enough room between the swim deck and the transom to fit the back plate...

Anyone with a 205v do this yet?

SpokaneSteve
07-26-2014, 07:12 PM
My brother and I spent 5 hours installing a FAE today or we would have worked on this for my X1. Here is a design that seemed pretty workable for a 205V hull:

http://www.wickedwakesurf.com/tutorials.html

Please keep this thread posted. Thanks, Steve.

geordie-wake
07-26-2014, 07:27 PM
I looked closely at my 205v hulled star and there does not appear to be enough room between the swim deck and the transom to fit the back plate...

Anyone with a 205v do this yet?

I tried today but the backing plate is just to small and will not work. I'm looking into using the triangular cut out in the swim platform as a means of attachment. The paddle is the easy bit.

clrussell
07-26-2014, 08:20 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/vydeqyqa.jpg


05 x star

ssnaples
07-26-2014, 08:49 PM
Nice Job! Those parts look familiar. Where did you get the idea?

ssnaples
07-26-2014, 08:51 PM
Just finished the first batch of Beta Wake Gates using HDPE and stainless hardware. I will post some pictures tomorrow.

clrussell
07-26-2014, 09:56 PM
Had mine out today and loved it! Ended up breaking behind one of the braces so I couldn't use it anymore.


Made a HUGE difference in the wave. I filled all stock ballast and a couple hundred extra on surf side. The pictures I posted are with 4 people in the boat scattered around.

Wave has more push than I ever imagined, I'm on the brakes the entire time I'm riding and able to ride way back on the wave now.

Really impressed with this and thank you to the op for showing us this idea. I've got to make my next one a little beefier on the bracket end. This was definitely worth the 2 hours I spent on it. If anyone wants the templet for a 04-11 x star let me know and I'll send ya the card board cut out I have.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/vu4u5eru.jpg it broke right behind this spot so now I know what I have to do to make it even better.

Mine bolts on and doesn't slide on, however the first set up putting it on in the water took 2 minutes. Filling ballast takes 10 plus.

We went from wakeboard weight to surf in 2 minutes.

VP46
07-26-2014, 11:20 PM
I started in on mine... hope to have it finished tomorrow. I'll post pics in a few days of it surfing if it works.

I built it with wood/parts I had lying around so it's not adjustable.

02ProstarSammyD
07-26-2014, 11:50 PM
Not sure about the 205 but I had to hit the 23/32 with a belt sander to get it to fit. Then stuck a strip of platform pad on the backside to eliminate any scratching but still keep it snug

nickespi
07-27-2014, 01:59 AM
I think I am going to construct mine similar to the wickedwakesurf version since I have a teak platform with a transom saver. This will eliminate the issue of the gap between the transom and the platform not being wide enough.

VP46
07-27-2014, 02:56 AM
Not elegant but it is very sturdy.... it "will" work (ok it will not fall off and it "should"work ;) )

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aPVT9dr-HN8/U9SiNsygaCI/AAAAAAAAMGk/ZyjxfEdLIwc/w480-h640-no/bpos+wake+gate.jpeg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MPnEEISTH3Q/U9SiNXAoYOI/AAAAAAAAMGg/ajt0UykUQuI/w640-h480-no/bpos+wake+gate2.jpeg

soacj
07-27-2014, 09:13 AM
Not elegant but it is very sturdy.... it "will" work (ok it will not fall off and it "should"work ;) )



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MPnEEISTH3Q/U9SiNXAoYOI/AAAAAAAAMGg/ajt0UykUQuI/w640-h480-no/bpos+wake+gate2.jpeg

I used to frequent a forum where that fine piece of craftmanship would be described as "bootyfab";);)

That being said, I appreciate the spirit of "get 'er dun" and I'll be interested in your results on the 205v hull!:D

VP46
07-27-2014, 09:24 AM
I used to frequent a forum where that fine piece of craftmanship would be described as "bootyfab";);)

That being said, I appreciate the spirit of "get 'er dun" and I'll be interested in your results on the 205v hull!:D

You can see why I hesitated to share! but hey... we are heading out for a 5 day tour and I had little time to even get to this point.

(Literally built this running back and forth from the BBQ last night - somehow managing to avoid the wrath of the wife - wrath as in names like "selfish" and the ever feared phrase "This is why.....<insert disparaging comment about something totally unrelated to anything but that is my fault anyway>") ;):D:cool:

supturb89
07-27-2014, 10:19 AM
You can see why I hesitated to share! but hey... we are heading out for a 5 day tour and I had little time to even get to this point.

(Literally built this running back and forth from the BBQ last night - somehow managing to avoid the wrath of the wife - wrath as in names like "selfish" and the ever feared phrase "This is why.....<insert disparaging comment about something totally unrelated to anything but that is my fault anyway>") ;):D:cool:

Sounds familiar...

ssnaples
07-27-2014, 08:47 PM
Great to see that this thread has sparked so much interest and has gotten other MC owners to experiment and share their results. I just finished the first batch of HDPE wake gates and I must say they turned out awesome! It was a lot of work to make all of the templates and get everything setup to build it properly, but we are now in business. I will post pictures later tonight.

uplander
07-27-2014, 10:35 PM
I would think a larger plate against the transom would help with the force. There has to be an incredible amount of force placed on the arm to the backing plate. I might look into this with a local fab shop who could bend up aluminum and weld in support bracket.

cool idea thanks for posting

markmcfarland
07-27-2014, 10:42 PM
Any luck with 2nd gen xstars.

clrussell
07-27-2014, 10:52 PM
Any luck with 2nd gen xstars.

My post from above is a 2nd gen star

markmcfarland
07-27-2014, 11:33 PM
My post from above is a 2nd gen star


clrussell I sent you a pm.

Aric'sX15
07-27-2014, 11:39 PM
The crap you guys strap onto these boats.... lol

Aric'sX15
07-28-2014, 02:23 AM
Sounds familiar...

Why does anyone get married..... lol

ssnaples
07-28-2014, 02:24 AM
Here are some pics of the first batch of beta wake gates (new name - "wake shaper"). Much improvement over the prototype. It is constructed out of HDPE, stainless steel / aluminum hardware. I also have a run of black ones coming soon. If anyone else is interested please let me know.

Aric'sX15
07-28-2014, 03:02 AM
Interested in seeing how long it takes for litigation to come in on these types of small time surfgate reproductions.


Did you read malibu's Patton on their surfgate by chance? Im clearly being a debbie downer, but after the NSS scandal, im curious

Blmeanie
07-28-2014, 07:28 AM
looks great, now I know why you went with white :)

clrussell
07-28-2014, 07:33 AM
If I may ask where did you source the hdpe?

ttu
07-28-2014, 07:58 AM
looks great!!! look forward to getting mine in black to match the hull.

speaking of hdpe, I am needing to cut my access door down a bit that goes under the starboard bow seat. what is the best way to cut the stuff?

Ironhorse
07-28-2014, 07:58 AM
Very interested if you make one up for an X14.

tcmercil
07-28-2014, 09:18 AM
from what I'm seeing:

Material list:

cardboard template
HDPE – or plywood for the Redneck look
2 x casters
1 hinge

Question about the below:
Carabineer /rope deal – where to get that?
Black pole with slots for adjustment - - also where to get that?

02ProstarSammyD
07-28-2014, 09:32 AM
Question about the below:
Carabineer /rope deal – where to get that?
Black pole with slots for adjustment - - also where to get that?

Home depot sells the rope
No clue on the black pole

clrussell
07-28-2014, 09:47 AM
Black pole with holes = walking cane that's adjustable. Walmart is where mine came from

02ProstarSammyD
07-28-2014, 10:17 AM
Interested in seeing how long it takes for litigation to come in on these types of small time surfgate reproductions.
Prob have a warning in the mail by lunch time.

BrooksfamX2
07-28-2014, 11:03 AM
$$$ ???
Would need black for a 2007 X2..........

04 Star Rider
07-28-2014, 11:14 AM
When the tabs are folded back tight against the platform, is there any adverse effects on the normal wakeboarding wake? Or should they only be installed when surfing?

02ProstarSammyD
07-28-2014, 11:21 AM
When the tabs are folded back tight against the platform, is there any adverse effects on the normal wakeboarding wake? Or should they only be installed when surfing?
I wouldn't see a reason to ride around with this thing on when not surfing. Mine takes about 20 seconds to pop in and out if that. I can't get a rider in the boat that fast. If no one has an answer for this I can leave mine on for a wakeboard ride this weekend and report back.

04 Star Rider
07-28-2014, 11:43 AM
I wouldn't see a reason to ride around with this thing on when not surfing. Mine takes about 20 seconds to pop in and out if that. I can't get a rider in the boat that fast. If no one has an answer for this I can leave mine on for a wakeboard ride this weekend and report back.

Thanks. I have an xstar and it appears that those are slightly more complicated than just sliding it in and out (wing nuts and everything). Just wondering how it would act at around 22mph. Best case would be that it is not even touching the water at that speed

mzimme
07-28-2014, 12:23 PM
Interested in seeing how long it takes for litigation to come in on these types of small time surfgate reproductions.


Did you read malibu's Patton on their surfgate by chance? Im clearly being a debbie downer, but after the NSS scandal, im curious


Is General Patton coming back from the dead? You mean a "patent"? 8p

clrussell
07-28-2014, 01:24 PM
Thanks. I have an xstar and it appears that those are slightly more complicated than just sliding it in and out (wing nuts and everything). Just wondering how it would act at around 22mph. Best case would be that it is not even touching the water at that speed

2 minute install on my xstar.. I wouldn't even think about riding with it on at wakeboard speed. It would still disturb the wake, plus have a lot more force on the boat.

Not saying it wouldn't work to leave it. However I'll just take mine on and off ..

ssnaples
07-28-2014, 03:07 PM
2 minute install on my xstar.. I wouldn't even think about riding with it on at wakeboard speed. It would still disturb the wake, plus have a lot more force on the boat.

Not saying it wouldn't work to leave it. However I'll just take mine on and off ..

I would agree - takes about 10 seconds to take on and off on my X2.

ssnaples
07-28-2014, 03:09 PM
Interested in seeing how long it takes for litigation to come in on these types of small time surfgate reproductions.


Did you read malibu's Patton on their surfgate by chance? Im clearly being a debbie downer, but after the NSS scandal, im curious

Please don't bring any negative vibe to such a positive thread. Why do people insist on destroying any kind of creativity? This just hurts our sport. Can't we all just get along?

thamax
07-28-2014, 03:11 PM
how did the starboard side surf on the x-2?

thamax
07-28-2014, 03:17 PM
I got a crazy idea of running both devices! should be interesting

02ProstarSammyD
07-28-2014, 04:02 PM
Please don't bring any negative vibe to such a positive thread. Why do people insist on destroying any kind of creativity? This just hurts our sport. Can't we all just get along?


Don't think its negative but more of the truth. Recall wakemakers posting on here awhile back that they weren't producing such products b/c it was a losing battle. Its a great idea man and it works but to honest man it is making money on someone else's legwork. Not saying its right or wrong but its the world we live in. With that said want to share a bit on the different thicknesses of the backing plates in the hdpe version? I know the 23/32 was a bit think to squeeze in on my x2 with a teak platform so curious if your hdpe version accounts for that. See what seems to be 2 different thicknesses

04 Star Rider
07-28-2014, 04:50 PM
2 minute install on my xstar.. I wouldn't even think about riding with it on at wakeboard speed. It would still disturb the wake, plus have a lot more force on the boat.

Not saying it wouldn't work to leave it. However I'll just take mine on and off ..

Thanks!! I will do that once I fab up mine

Traxx822
07-28-2014, 04:55 PM
Don't think its negative but more of the truth. Recall wakemakers posting on here awhile back that they weren't producing such products b/c it was a losing battle. Its a great idea man and it works but to honest man it is making money on someone else's legwork. Not saying its right or wrong but its the world we live in. With that said want to share a bit on the different thicknesses of the backing plates in the hdpe version? I know the 23/32 was a bit think to squeeze in on my x2 with a teak platform so curious if your hdpe version accounts for that. See what seems to be 2 different thicknesses
I agree but will take it one step further. Here in the USA we pride ourselves on competition and our free market. One of the best inventions were spin offs of other inventions or improvments on those. If I was SS I would feel confident that my lawyers could argue that the creative aspect on my own end was more than enough of a difference than anything else on the market. The idea of a device to make a boats wake more surfable is not new by any means.

However, large companies will tactfully litigate against smaller companies even if they think they might not win. 1. They can afford it, 2. They hope you will get scared and quit 3. They hope you can not afford to litigate.

04 Star Rider
07-28-2014, 04:56 PM
Agree with the patent issues as this is basically a Malibu item. You could make them for your own personal use, but once you start making money, it becomes an issue. I'm not saying you are alone in doing something like this, but I would suggest you keep yourself safe, especially this being a tow boat forum that I am sure the competition does read.

Just my 2 cents, but you have more than enough information on this thread for people to understand what it is and how it works. I suggest that anyone wanting to do business do so via private message and do some homework for who you are "giving" these to.

Traxx822
07-28-2014, 04:57 PM
I just wish this device would work for the guys who don't have removable swim platforms :(

Stritt
07-28-2014, 05:47 PM
If you ever get a pattern for a 205 style hull, let me know!

clrussell
07-28-2014, 06:23 PM
I just wish this device would work for the guys who don't have removable swim platforms :(

Well I was going to say it will.. But your platform is built into the hull correct? So yea I think your stuck with drilling holes in the glass and putting it on a pin :(

Ironhorse
07-28-2014, 06:59 PM
Has anyone made one up for an X14? I would be happy to make a donation (this way no one is selling these). :)

jackpita
07-28-2014, 08:52 PM
Made and installed one on my X14DD yesterday. Much deeper pocket with same weight. Significant improvement. 500 between motor and rear seat. ~200 above port rear seat. 350 between motor and port side. Ski locker, port and starboard internals, V-bag under front seats all full. See pics. 3/4 in treated plywood and treated 2x4. Will play with the angle and weight this weekend to get the best wake. Just ordered 3/4 starboard for the finished product.
First pic is of the gate. Second without the gate. Third is with the gate. Will post final drawings.

Two more pics of gate construction.

Aric'sX15
07-28-2014, 09:26 PM
Please don't bring any negative vibe to such a positive thread. Why do people insist on destroying any kind of creativity? This just hurts our sport. Can't we all just get along?

Not being a negative nancy.. just curious if you thought this through....

NSS is nothing like Surfgate, and Malibu went out for them.


thanks mizzme, ill be sure to spellcheck when I'm drunk-foruming. lol

MCVOLS
07-28-2014, 09:47 PM
Made and installed one on my X14DD yesterday. Much deeper pocket with same weight. Significant improvement. 500 between motor and rear seat. ~200 above port rear seat. 350 between motor and port side. Ski locker, port and starboard internals, V-bag under front seats all full. See pics. 3/4 in treated plywood and treated 2x4. Will play with the angle and weight this weekend to get the best wake. Just ordered 3/4 starboard for the finished product.

First pic is of the gate. Second without the gate. Third is with the gate. Will post final drawings.


How is your plate attached? Can't see anything going behind the platform. Is the entire board in the water?

uplander
07-28-2014, 09:58 PM
Has anyone tried this on a X30

Mastercraft13
07-28-2014, 11:23 PM
Hey all you need to do is put some little channels on the surface that runs on the water with a little lip at the end, call it Gen2 and slap your patent on it. Problem solved!

MMurphyTX
07-28-2014, 11:53 PM
I installed a similar one to this last Friday on my x30 to experiment with the wave. I could see and feel a longer wake however the push wasn't really there like before when I had it bagged out.

Think I need more angle.

jackpita
07-29-2014, 06:16 AM
6" by 30" board on outside of the board attached to the platform. Front trimmed to match the shape of the transom. 6" depth of the board matchs the depth of the side of the hull. Will post pic tonight off the boat.

soacj
07-29-2014, 08:22 AM
thanks mizzme, ill be sure to spellcheck when I'm drunk-foruming. lol

As long as we're talking about legalities, what's the legal drinking age in TX anyway?:D:D:D:

02ProstarSammyD
07-29-2014, 08:27 AM
MMurphy I think my angle needs to be played with too. Something we should all be sharing

mzimme
07-29-2014, 09:49 AM
Honestly, this guy could probably get a patent on an entirely removable wake shaping device and keep the big players away from HIS product. Then he could license it out and make some cash. I'm not sure exactly how the patent reads for surfgate, but this isn't the same thing since it's not attached to the boat. As others have mentioned, wake shaping devices aren't anything new. "Surf tabs" have been around for years.

lakebumx45
07-29-2014, 11:22 AM
I took a quick look at the patents and patent claims that issued to Malibu Boats: 7140318, 8534214, 8539897 and 8578873. The '318 patent requires a foil. The '214 patent requires an actuator. The '897 patent requires both port and starboard diverters. The '873 patent requires both an actuator and port and starboard diverters. So, if it is manually extended as opposed to actuated, it does not appear these devices if installed on only one side of the boat would infringe the Malibu patents. Note that Malibu could file continuation patent applications to try to obtain broader protection. This should not be construed as legal advice....just saying...

02ProstarSammyD
07-29-2014, 11:24 AM
Yea but lets be honest here...........hes gonna have to sell ALOT of these to cover the lawyer fees to fight it. Theyd just bury him in paperwork and lawsuits

mzimme
07-29-2014, 11:25 AM
I think it's a great idea. Definitely considering trying this out on my boat.

BudmanV24
07-29-2014, 11:26 AM
Im just waiting for one of these platform mounted tabs to rip someones platform off....that'll be exciting. I don't think the platform brackets are designed to handle much of a shear load.

Ryan
07-29-2014, 12:19 PM
Im just waiting for one of these platform mounted tabs to rip someones platform off....that'll be exciting. I don't think the platform brackets are designed to handle much of a shear load.

Exciting/sucky indeed.
How much force do you believe is being applied to the bracket and through-bolts?

I have always trusted a platform could hold two grown men. Imagine the force on a bolt from 500 lbs, levered when placed near the edge of the platform. I'm no physicist, but believe that the force at <11mph from a 12"x30" board would be less, especially since some of force is dispersed to the actual transom in these DIY design. WickedWave certainly puts the full burden on both platform brackets.

dvsone79
07-29-2014, 12:19 PM
Im just waiting for one of these platform mounted tabs to rip someones platform off....that'll be exciting. I don't think the platform brackets are designed to handle much of a shear load.

I think you'll be waiting for a while. I'm no structural engineer but the tabs aren't at an angle where the water is pushing against them with enough force to break anything. If they were at a 90 degree angle to the direction of water flow then maybe. But since it's more like a 30 degree angle and they don't attach directly to the platform I don't think the platform will be the first thing to give. Maybe one of those swivel castors or the adjustable arm...

lakebumx45
07-29-2014, 12:28 PM
I doubt a start-up manufacturer of these devices is going to be the target of a patent infringement lawsuit. Malibu is trying to keep other boat manufacturers from adopting its technology to try to steer buyers to its boats.

02ProstarSammyD
07-29-2014, 12:31 PM
btw heres a pic from the weekend on an x2. We cleaned it up alot by adding some front weight later but unfortunately my camera girl lacked keeping up.

600 sumos on top of hard tanks
kgb full
350 another 350 up front helped alot
7 people in the boat distributed all over

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s521/williamburell/1_zps9c517cf0.jpg

I doubt a start-up manufacturer of these devices is going to be the target of a patent infringement lawsuit. Malibu is trying to keep other boat manufacturers from adopting its technology to try to steer buyers to its boats.
I don't know about that. Power of the internet is strong these days. Why buy a malibu when you can add this to an MC for a fraction of the cost and get the same result?

ssnaples
07-29-2014, 03:08 PM
I think you'll be waiting for a while. I'm no structural engineer but the tabs aren't at an angle where the water is pushing against them with enough force to break anything. If they were at a 90 degree angle to the direction of water flow then maybe. But since it's more like a 30 degree angle and they don't attach directly to the platform I don't think the platform will be the first thing to give. Maybe one of those swivel castors or the adjustable arm...

I have not calculated the exact force, but it is actually not much at all. You can stand on the rear swimstep while underway at around 11mph and put a kickboard in the water and achieve basically the same effect. As you can see in the pictures, the rooster created by the tab is pretty small. The way the Wake-Shaper is designed, the force is actually transferred from the tab through the extension arm to the transom. No force is applied to the swim step.

BrooksfamX2
07-29-2014, 05:12 PM
Better get one while you can.........

dvsone79
07-30-2014, 02:34 PM
Anyone tried this with a 205v yet? Let us know how it goes.
I'd love to get mine cleaned up with more push.

BudmanV24
07-31-2014, 02:35 AM
I'm no structural engineer but the tabs aren't at an angle where the water is pushing against them with enough force to break anything. If they were at a 90 degree angle to the direction of water flow then maybe. But since it's more like a 30 degree angle and they don't attach directly to the platform I don't think the platform will be the first thing to give. Maybe one of those swivel castors or the adjustable arm...

...well I am. The versions that attach to the transom are fine. Its the varieties that only attach to the platform that bother me. Lenco actuators are rated at 750lbs and up. While platforms are rated for a high compressive load, they're not designed foe this type of shear. But, it's America so everyone is free to do whatever they want to their own boats.

BudmanV24
07-31-2014, 02:36 AM
Anyone tried this with a 205v yet? Let us know how it goes.
I'd love to get mine cleaned up with more push.

What ballast are you running?

rbuss4
07-31-2014, 11:07 AM
Anyone tried this with a 205v yet? Let us know how it goes.
I'd love to get mine cleaned up with more push.


I would love to see specs for a 205DD if they are out there yet. BTW- how do you surf upside down like that?

ibrokeit
07-31-2014, 11:45 AM
I would love to see specs for a 205DD if they are out there yet. BTW- how do you surf upside down like that?

Thats how they surf in Australia. Dont you know? :D

rbuss4
07-31-2014, 02:30 PM
I thought Bama meant Alabama, not "Bama -mate"

ibrokeit
07-31-2014, 02:31 PM
I thought Bama meant Alabama, not "Bama -mate"

LOL :D

dvsone79
07-31-2014, 03:00 PM
What ballast are you running?

Rear port 750 full and ski locker sac as full as it gets which I estimate at roughly 300. 10.5 mph. I think it surfs slightly better without the belly weight I just leave that sac full all the time since we mostly wakeboard.

BudmanV24
07-31-2014, 08:21 PM
Rear port 750 full and ski locker sac as full as it gets which I estimate at roughly 300. 10.5 mph. I think it surfs slightly better without the belly weight I just leave that sac full all the time since we mostly wakeboard.

Belly/nose weight lengthens the pocket at a cost of making the wave shorter. Another added benefit is keeping the platform from dragging in the water and messing the wake up. Putting a sack under the port side bench seat or under and on top of will give you more push.

geordie-wake
08-01-2014, 07:07 PM
just fabricated this up to try on my 205v. The mount slots in the triangular cut out on the platform bracket and is secured by a ratchet rope to the opposite tow eye, allowing easy fit and removal. The method of adjustment is slightly different but the principle is the same just move a steel rod into the next hole.

I'm off to Scotland in the morning for a week of wakeboarding and surfing I'm expecting to have to make a few adjustments to the design but only testing will tell :)

FoggyNogginz
08-01-2014, 07:17 PM
Very interested if you make one up for an X14.

+1 me too. Our platforms are attached differently as well.

FoggyNogginz
08-01-2014, 07:24 PM
Made and installed one on my X14DD yesterday. Much deeper pocket with same weight. Significant improvement. 500 between motor and rear seat. ~200 above port rear seat. 350 between motor and port side. Ski locker, port and starboard internals, V-bag under front seats all full. See pics. 3/4 in treated plywood and treated 2x4. Will play with the angle and weight this weekend to get the best wake. Just ordered 3/4 starboard for the finished product.
First pic is of the gate. Second without the gate. Third is with the gate. Will post final drawings.

Two more pics of gate construction.

Where did you get that transom saver? I'd like to have one of those!

Footin
08-01-2014, 07:28 PM
How much for the X2 model?

FoggyNogginz
08-01-2014, 07:38 PM
Has anyone attempted one of these shapers like Nautique has? This looks like the bomb to be. These waves are sick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6usVCaSxU2A

VP46
08-01-2014, 09:54 PM
Spent some time surfing my 205v this week. I had been successfully surfing port side with 400 port locker, and 700 in the middle (300-350 in ski locker, and 400 fat sac on top)

This week I tried the following configurations (here's my observations):

1st - NO GATE - Port side 750 (not completely full because my wife is impatient and could care less about my little experiment) and 300-350 in ski locker.

Result: Good setup - enough push to Surf without rope farther back then what I had been surfing with (400 in port locker versus this weeks 750)

2nd - GATE Installed - Port side 750 (almost full - impatient wife) and ski locker 300-350 full.

Result: OKAY setup - enough push to surf rope less but less push than without it installed.

3rd - GATE Installed - 750 port, 400 starboard, 300-350 ski locker

RESULT: GREAT SETUP!! - I was really surprised at how far back I could surf - double the distance of my normal 400 in port and 750 in the center.

The wave was not as tall but the pocket was bigger/longer and for my taste far more enjoyable.


4th - I HAVE NOT TRIED THIS YET (because my wife truly is impatient and could care less) - she literally said NO WAY there is not enough room bla bla bla... but this I am very curious to see how this will surf:

750 in port, 400 on top of 300-350 ski locker and 400 in starboard.

or

possibly the same config as above but with more weight on the port seats.


Unfortunately you will have to take my word for it - the only video I have is of me surfing in situation #1 with NO GATE installed. (i'll add that vid shortly.. as long as you all promise to not make fun of my sun tan lotion free garb (*shirt and ugly hat)

ap77
08-01-2014, 10:22 PM
Has anyone attempted one of these shapers like Nautique has? This looks like the bomb to be. These waves are sick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6usVCaSxU2A
I was on a G23 earlier in the week and the wave was a bit disappointing...Although it was a nice size and had lots of push it wasn't clean. There seemed to be two little waves within the wake and a lot of wash.

Aric'sX15
08-01-2014, 10:29 PM
This thread title should follow like wake world. "Ghetto gate" lol

VP46
08-01-2014, 10:44 PM
promised video....

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t43.1792-2/10571736_10154483464490287_663832955_n.mp4?oh=1aa4 00047256b5dd979424331861bd26&oe=53DCBD7D

Edited broken link to video...

Ryan
08-01-2014, 11:35 PM
promised video....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10154482789735287&l=6055435519889765815

Looks like a broken link - I'm very curious to see what you can do with your boat as I have the same hull.

VP46
08-02-2014, 03:22 AM
Looks like a broken link - I'm very curious to see what you can do with your boat as I have the same hull.

Link fixed (I think):

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t43.1792-2/10571736_10154483464490287_663832955_n.mp4?oh=1aa4 00047256b5dd979424331861bd26&oe=53DCBD7D

Keep in mind this is a video my 13yo begrudgingly took while sitting in the observers seat.... this is just 750 in the port locker and 350 in the ski locker - no gate attached.

The Gate attached does in fact allow you to move further back on the wave than with out it.

I guarantee you it improves the size of the pocket when weight is added to both lockers. That was my take on it at least.

BTW bumped into my boat's redheaded sister..... anyone know how many reverse gel '02s are out there? This is the first one I have seen in person outside of mine.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10547398_10154482792905287_4011751333362606196_o.j pg

ssnaples
08-02-2014, 03:44 AM
This thread title should follow like wake world. "Ghetto gate" lol

Why would I change the thread to "Ghetto Gate"?... the "Wake-Shaper is legit. In all honesty I would never try surfing without it again. Cleans up the wave beautifully and definitely has more push. Maybe you should get one and try it out.

Aric'sX15
08-02-2014, 03:58 AM
Explain what isnt ghetto about these. Lol

jackpita
08-02-2014, 07:44 AM
For the transom saver. Hydroturf.com/ You can buy it in sheets and has a good color selection. I used Hydro-Turf, PWC + Boating 40"x 62" Flat, Part Number: SHT40F; (PSA) = Pressure Sensitive Adhesives.

Easy to cut and apply. Put it up forward in front of the windshield, and along the sides, for no slip protection.

nickespi
08-02-2014, 09:47 AM
Explain what isnt ghetto about these. Lol

The trolling is hard with this one.

ssnaples
08-02-2014, 09:55 AM
Explain what isnt ghetto about these. Lol

I think that this is far from ghetto. At least the ones that I have developed (Wake-Shaper) are fabricated from 3/4" sheets of quality High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) with stainless steel / aluminum hardware .... definitely not cutting boards and duct tape. Get on board and try one out for yourself. Look how this thread has sparked so much creativity and discussion in the forums. Go thread crap somewhere else.

nickespi
08-02-2014, 09:58 AM
I'm stoked guys are getting out there and trying to figure stuff out that the company isn't doing for us. Necessity is the mother of invention and you can't dispute this one at all. Great job to ssnaples, and Aric, shame on you! lol

FoggyNogginz
08-02-2014, 12:57 PM
For the transom saver. Hydroturf.com/ You can buy it in sheets and has a good color selection. I used Hydro-Turf, PWC + Boating 40"x 62" Flat, Part Number: SHT40F; (PSA) = Pressure Sensitive Adhesives.

Easy to cut and apply. Put it up forward in front of the windshield, and along the sides, for no slip protection.

THANKS!

tr6coug
08-02-2014, 02:18 PM
I think that this is far from ghetto. At least the ones that I have developed (Wake-Shaper) are fabricated from 3/4" sheets of quality High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) with stainless steel / aluminum hardware .... definitely not cutting boards and duct tape. Get on board and try one out for yourself. Look how this thread has sparked so much creativity and discussion in the forums. Go thread crap somewhere else.

I agree this isn't ghetto it's innovative. Good job ssnaples. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Aric'sX15
08-02-2014, 02:31 PM
I'm stoked guys are getting out there and trying to figure stuff out that the company isn't doing for us. Necessity is the mother of invention and you can't dispute this one at all. Great job to ssnaples, and Aric, shame on you! lol

Trolling was strong, but still. Lol.

Ryan
08-03-2014, 08:04 PM
I think that this is far from ghetto. At least the ones that I have developed (Wake-Shaper) are fabricated from 3/4" sheets of quality High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) with stainless steel / aluminum hardware .... definitely not cutting boards and duct tape. Get on board and try one out for yourself. Look how this thread has sparked so much creativity and discussion in the forums. Go thread crap somewhere else.

He needs a boat first. :D

Here's my favorite DIY setup with a NSS knock-off. Very professional. However, since I don't know how to weld, I'll be giving ssnaples design a try.

Video: http://youtu.be/CtxyCXkAg-g
Full thread: http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800079

clrussell
08-03-2014, 08:45 PM
He needs a boat first. :D

Here's my favorite DIY setup with a NSS knock-off. Very professional. However, since I don't know how to weld, I'll be giving ssnaples design a try.

Video: http://youtu.be/CtxyCXkAg-g
Full thread: http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800079

Yea that's legit! A lot of commitment and great execution!

Traxx822
08-03-2014, 09:32 PM
I'm jealous I can't use this on my boat.

Aric'sX15
08-03-2014, 09:37 PM
I think its great you guys all like it and all.

But, if youre gonna reproduce someone else's design and sell it for profit is where is see the issue. everyone still pays royalties to CC for the wakeboard tower patent..... (4PT)

ssnaples
08-03-2014, 10:35 PM
I think its great you guys all like it and all.

But, if youre gonna reproduce someone else's design and sell it for profit is where is see the issue. everyone still pays royalties to CC for the wakeboard tower patent..... (4PT)

Just wanted to let you know that I have submitted a patent for walking down the street with both legs on the ground while chewing bubble gum.... it's pending.... please make sure to send all royalties my way.

Oh.... BTW Aric.... unless you have something meaningful or creative to share you can leave this thread now.

02ProstarSammyD
08-04-2014, 08:04 AM
Just wanted to let you know that I have submitted a patent for walking down the street with both legs on the ground while chewing bubble gum.... it's pending.... please make sure to send all royalties my way.

Oh.... BTW Aric.... unless you have something meaningful or creative to share you can leave this thread now.

Troll baiting=successful

He does have a point though. I mean dude I can appreciate what you are doing but its not like you can say its not a copy

73blue
08-04-2014, 08:50 AM
Just wanted to let you know that I have submitted a patent for walking down the street with both legs on the ground while chewing bubble gum.... it's pending.... please make sure to send all royalties my way.



I need to see how you can walk with one leg on the ground, much less 2. I try to keep my feet in contact, and even then I can only do one at a time. Whenever I try 2, I just end up standing around.

BrooksfamX2
08-04-2014, 09:09 AM
So many haters and buzz kills................

Ryan
08-04-2014, 10:57 AM
I need to see how you can walk with one leg on the ground, much less 2. I try to keep my feet in contact, and even then I can only do one at a time. Whenever I try 2, I just end up standing around.

Sweet! Looks like there's room for me to get a use patent for hopping.

Mastercraft13
08-04-2014, 11:41 AM
It's great that people think outside the box and try to come up with their own creations to improve something. If it is infringing on a patent I'm sure the OP can tweak it to be able to be its own patented product if he were to take it to market. All great things started in people's garages and I applaud you for trying.

Ryan
08-04-2014, 02:08 PM
I'm trying to give this a shot. The variable I'm most focused on is:
What angle the hinge should be mounted on. Malibu and Moomba just influence yaw, where MC, Supra, and CC use listing and some yaw.

thamax
08-04-2014, 02:45 PM
so any starboard side results?

Latin Flyer
08-04-2014, 06:07 PM
I want one NOW. And no, i cannot do it myself. I'm that type of person. I know my limitations.

Aric'sX15
08-04-2014, 06:13 PM
Troll baiting=successful

He does have a point though. I mean dude I can appreciate what you are doing but its not like you can say its not a copy

Thats all im saying.

Traxx822
08-04-2014, 07:48 PM
Dude, you don't know anything about patents, laws etc. Stop. You look very stupid and immature.

Copy of what? NSS? Hydraulic system designed by a manufacturer. Compared to a manual system? How this is a rip off I have no idea.

I have not seen one statement that the concept of gates shaping wake's was his own. (The only similarity) The idea to build a manual accessory to perform the same concept ... absolutely. Have there been plywood strap on versions, yes, has anyone else developed it to the market ... no. SS wins, period.
This is exactly how the world goes round.

Some of our best inventions are just ingenious changes to flaws in original design.

The fact that SS has made the sacrafice, to go out on a limb, to create a viable product for masses of people to enjoy is the epitome of greatness.

Hats off to yah SS. As a business owner/investor myself, I recognize what it takes to do projects like this.

Mods, please clean this thread up.

jackpita
08-04-2014, 07:59 PM
Back to the topic at hand. X14DD. Next home made iteration. Made from Starboard. Full internal aft, ski locker, v-bag in the front, 500 behind the engine, with ~200 port side aft. Able to surf without a 500 on the port side of the engine. Much more room inside the boat, which was one of my objectives. Did not try with the 500 on the port side, which would be very good for this setup. 10.8 mph.

Next effort will be to make the swim platform attachment smaller / lighter.

ttu
08-04-2014, 08:12 PM
^^^ looks great!

aric, have no freaking clue why you have to be such a a@#! he came up with something that works and no he is breaking any laws!!

MCVOLS
08-04-2014, 08:28 PM
The x14 DD wake looks awesome! Very interested, pm sent your way.

Aric'sX15
08-04-2014, 10:29 PM
Mods need to clean out what, you throwing derogatory terms at me? Before you call me stupid maybe you should do a little research.

*

Malibu has two patents, one is on a "Surf system" and the other is on a "Surf system and method for a watercraft". The second would lead me to believe it is patenting a device to facilitate the use of a boat for a purpose.*Now if businesses thrive on copying someone elses ideas directly and sell another companies intellectual property, you are NOT someone I want to do business with. I was gonna stay out of this thread as asked by the op, but when someone comes after me and essentially calls me childish and stupid because someone took a company's intellectual property that put in the money and engineering into a wake divergence plate and made it a manual version of what malibu made, I am bound to reply. Anyways. Op good luck.

cbryan70
08-04-2014, 11:56 PM
,..................

BudmanV24
08-04-2014, 11:57 PM
Now if businesses thrive on copying someone elses ideas directly and sell another companies intellectual property, you are NOT someone I want to do business with.

Apple does a good job at it.

SpokaneSteve
08-05-2014, 12:01 AM
Jackpita:

Could you put up more pics of your device? Maybe one underneath and a couple off the boat?

My brother and I are working on one right now. Any dimensions would be appreciated as well.

Cheer, Steve.

Aric'sX15
08-05-2014, 12:07 AM
Are Malibu's plates removable? This is more of an accessory than copying something that is permanently attached to the boat. I have not seen him list a price. I can copy whatever I want for personal use as long as I don't profit can't I?

Aric you take so much **** because you come off as an arrogant ***** that has daddy paying for college yet you boast about blowing cash on a new truck. Stay over at wake world where the children play.


Jealousy. Sweet. Too late for deleting it! Only reason I was talking about a new truck, because I was called out AGAIN on not having my own truck. But when I do, Im just an arrogant a hole. I lose either way huh? Sorry my parents pay for my college. they want to motivate me to succeed without the burden of student loans. That makes me a terrible person!!!!!! Talk to me when you have seen cars repod and a surfboard on cinderblocks for a dining room table. You can THEN talk crap to me about giving your kids a better life when they have seen both sides!!!!!!!!!


Anyways, the only reason I said ANYTHING is because he IS gonna sell this.

cwarndahl
08-05-2014, 12:10 AM
I've seen less drama on wwf!

MIskier
08-05-2014, 07:53 AM
Jealousy. Sweet. Too late for deleting it! Only reason I was talking about a new truck, because I was called out AGAIN on not having my own truck. But when I do, Im just an arrogant a hole. I lose either way huh? Sorry my parents pay for my college. they want to motivate me to succeed without the burden of student loans. That makes me a terrible person!!!!!! Talk to me when you have seen cars repod and a surfboard on cinderblocks for a dining room table. You can THEN talk crap to me about giving your kids a better life when they have seen both sides!!!!!!!!!


Anyways, the only reason I said ANYTHING is because he IS gonna sell this.

Aric,

You may want to brush up on your patent law before coming on here and telling someone that he is a thief.

Malibu will lose its case against CC because the two systems cause the wake to diverge in a completely different manner and any competent lawyer with expert witnesses should be able to show that there is enough of a difference to avoid patent infringement.

Malibu has no real reason to go after this device since it is 1.) removable 2.) they do not offer any sort of aftermarket kit 3.) This device is not being marketed to or by an OEM whom they compete with, which is obviously the area that they are most concerned about.

As an aside...as someone of a similar age and type A personality you do come off pretty d***hey. Talking about your new truck, "your" Porsche, and telling everyone you're going to pick up this new boat or that new boat just sounds shallow and needy. You may be a great guy, but the way you post just comes off terribly.

02ProstarSammyD
08-05-2014, 07:58 AM
Christ almighty people. They are opinions. Aric has an opinion and opinions are like aholes. You can't however call him a judgemental d**** while bashing the crap out of him. The irony and childish behavior in here makes you all look like a bag of d**ks. If you think hes wrong then say it and why. Grown men name calling itt

FoggyNogginz
08-05-2014, 08:58 AM
Back to the topic at hand. X14DD. Next home made iteration. Made from Starboard. Full internal aft, ski locker, v-bag in the front, 500 behind the engine, with ~200 port side aft. Able to surf without a 500 on the port side of the engine. Much more room inside the boat, which was one of my objectives. Did not try with the 500 on the port side, which would be very good for this setup. 10.8 mph.

Next effort will be to make the swim platform attachment smaller / lighter.

This looks nice!!! Can you provide the angle here, or perhaps the dimensions (length, width, etc) of this thing? Also, did you try multiple angles, or just wing it? I'm gonna make one next week for my X14V. Thanks!!!

BudmanV24
08-05-2014, 09:26 AM
Jealousy. Sweet. Too late for deleting it! Only reason I was talking about a new truck, because I was called out AGAIN on not having my own truck. But when I do, Im just an arrogant a hole. I lose either way huh? Sorry my parents pay for my college. they want to motivate me to succeed without the burden of student loans. That makes me a terrible person!!!!!! Talk to me when you have seen cars repod and a surfboard on cinderblocks for a dining room table. You can THEN talk crap to me about giving your kids a better life when they have seen both sides!!!!!!!!!


Anyways, the only reason I said ANYTHING is because he IS gonna sell this.

I prefer using tires rather than cinder blocks for my coffee tables...

mzimme
08-05-2014, 09:29 AM
This thread needs more wake shaping devices!

ssnaples
08-05-2014, 10:28 AM
This thread needs more wake shaping devices!

I couldn't agree more. The purpose of this thread was to take an already amazing boat that performs pretty much exactly as you would like and to make it even better. If we can get off the back and forth about legalities and focus on how we can make this thing better or work for all makes/models.... now that would be a worthy discussion. 192 posts (20 pages) and counting in this thread and half of them seem to be off topic. Not saying that everyone isn't entitled to their own opinion, but if anyone would like to start another thread just to bash each other, then by all means, do it!

VP46
08-05-2014, 10:59 AM
I've been staring at my 205v... thinking I could:

1. use the same set up (the nice one you are building for us) if I
2. cut the stern portion and hinge it twice to conform to the stern and (See Black Dashed Lines in image below)
3. cut a third/fourth time to clear the Swim Platform Bracket (Creates a U shaped Stern back board)
4. put a quick release on the adjustable rod and run it through the swim platform bracket (or around it) (See Yellow Adjustable arm and orange quick release)

That way It would slide in as you have designed it but only add the extra step of the quick release adjustable bar through the Platform bracket (or around it).

Can you visualize it?

I might also need:

1. a longer Adjustable bar
2. two more hinges
3. cut outs for the hinges
3. a longer Stern side gate/plate whatever you call the piece that mates up against the stern.
4. to modify the actual gate portion to mildly conform to shape of Stern.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/UqjMmfnkKBz7eYGo8Smh-qAxCtQeULrHLgxhpsPxlU4=w640-h480-no

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/wrhX-c5rUeIDRQwCUZ9e-mpQrg7_P309xIGuIBJd3M8=w640-h480-no

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pm3CQSxoUwE/U-EAwwPx5YI/AAAAAAAAMN4/YSKAXE61-Zw/w700-h575-no/hinged%2Bwake%2Bgate.png

mzimme
08-05-2014, 11:07 AM
Maybe a patent lawyer could clear this all up..... I mean, this is easy to translate into a brief summary, right? :)

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=8,539,897&s2=8,534,214&OS=8,539,897+AND+8,534,214&RS=8,539,897+AND+8,534,214

ssnaples
08-05-2014, 03:55 PM
I've been staring at my 205v... thinking I could:

1. use the same set up (the nice one you are building for us) if I
2. cut the stern portion and hinge it twice to conform to the stern and (See Black Dashed Lines in image below)
3. cut a third/fourth time to clear the Swim Platform Bracket (Creates a U shaped Stern back board)
4. put a quick release on the adjustable rod and run it through the swim platform bracket (or around it) (See Yellow Adjustable arm and orange quick release)

That way It would slide in as you have designed it but only add the extra step of the quick release adjustable bar through the Platform bracket (or around it).

Can you visualize it?

I might also need:

1. a longer Adjustable bar
2. two more hinges
3. cut outs for the hinges
3. a longer Stern side gate/plate whatever you call the piece that mates up against the stern.
4. to modify the actual gate portion to mildly conform to shape of Stern.



Seems like it would work. Is there enough clearance between the swim platform and the transom to slide your plate in?

thamax
08-05-2014, 03:59 PM
keep it on topic! Would like to see some starboard footage behind the X-2

willyt
08-05-2014, 04:00 PM
just pointing something out...
Aric'sX15's
Banned

anyway... i'd be really curious how a device of this type would perform on a gen 3 xstar.

76S&S
08-05-2014, 04:14 PM
For those DIY'ers among us, please share your source for the adjustable rod, once you find something.

customcruiser
08-05-2014, 04:26 PM
Does anyone have any idea of what a concave or convex tab would do to the shape of the wave?

What about making the tab stepped?

04 Star Rider
08-05-2014, 04:42 PM
Back to the topic at hand. X14DD. Next home made iteration. Made from Starboard. Full internal aft, ski locker, v-bag in the front, 500 behind the engine, with ~200 port side aft. Able to surf without a 500 on the port side of the engine. Much more room inside the boat, which was one of my objectives. Did not try with the 500 on the port side, which would be very good for this setup. 10.8 mph.

Next effort will be to make the swim platform attachment smaller / lighter.

I really like how you made that slip over the swim platform. seems to me to be the easiest method of installation. As was asked, how did you determine the angle or was it just a shot in the dark? it is kinda tough to tell from the pics, but it almost looks as if it follows the line of the hull straight back. does it angle out at all? Nice Work!!!!

clrussell
08-05-2014, 04:42 PM
just pointing something out...
Aric'sX15's
Banned

anyway... i'd be really curious how a device of this type would perform on a gen 3 xstar.

You talking 03-11 or newer? Mines an 05 worked amazing http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/06/haradysy.jpg

thamax
08-05-2014, 09:30 PM
45-50 degrees is the best angle! making it adjustable is trick for different amount of weight you might have on aboard.

FoggyNogginz
08-05-2014, 09:38 PM
Seems like these devices would work best with an evenly weighted boat (i.e. not listed). I'm guessing this because the shaping device would be lower in the water and "shaping" more evenly. Correct? Thoughts? Time to put my beer down?

mcparadise
08-05-2014, 09:40 PM
If you haven't seen the below, they are cool.

http://www.wickedwakesurf.com/

I'm just wondering if I can put one on the sportstar 19....Anyone know of a 90-96 prostar 190 that is being used for surfing with a surfgate (etc.)? I live in Hawaii so I wanna have a perpetual wave machine, since NO ONE else here does ;-) Not that I've seen anyway.

VP46
08-05-2014, 09:45 PM
I just picked up my Margarita..... let me take a stab at it.

In my experiment with it the wave was no where near as surf able when weighted to solely list to one side. The pocket was noticeably farther back (almost double) when I added 400lb sac to the starboard side to offset the 750.

I don't know that it is shaping it more evenly or if it is simply allowing you use the weight on the Starboard side - either way I wish I was on the water playing with it right now.

VP46
08-05-2014, 09:49 PM
Seems like it would work. Is there enough clearance between the swim platform and the transom to slide your plate in?

There is enough room to slide it in just inboard of the bracket. There is likely enough room to rest it on the bracket too I think.

I'd like to experiment with Plywood that mimics the thickness of the starboard stuff you were using.... can you tell me how thick it is?

bbrr22
08-06-2014, 07:55 AM
For those DIY'ers among us, please share your source for the adjustable rod, once you find something.

you can find the rod at McMaster.com search square tube.

ssnaples
08-06-2014, 08:47 AM
I just picked up my Margarita..... let me take a stab at it.

In my experiment with it the wave was no where near as surf able when weighted to solely list to one side. The pocket was noticeably farther back (almost double) when I added 400lb sac to the starboard side to offset the 750.

I don't know that it is shaping it more evenly or if it is simply allowing you use the weight on the Starboard side - either way I wish I was on the water playing with it right now.


yes it works best with the boat weighted evenly. if you want to increase the pocket, add more weight up front.

BudmanV24
08-06-2014, 11:11 AM
This thread needs more wake shaping devices!

My favorite wakeshaping devices switch from port to starboard upon request and are easy on the eyes. Ive heard rumors that they are very expensive and confusing to repair if they break though.

BudmanV24
08-06-2014, 11:15 AM
just pointing something out...
Aric'sX15's
Banned

anyway... i'd be really curious how a device of this type would perform on a gen 3 xstar.

Nah, he's just on vacation.

ssnaples
08-06-2014, 11:16 AM
My favorite wakeshaping devices switch from port to starboard upon request and are easy on the eyes. Ive heard rumors that they are very expensive and confusing to repair if they break though.

Yes, but how much weight is up front?

ttu
08-06-2014, 11:18 AM
My favorite wakeshaping devices switch from port to starboard upon request and are easy on the eyes. Ive heard rumors that they are very expensive and confusing to repair if they break though.

very very expensive!:D:D

VP46
08-06-2014, 11:32 AM
yes it works best with the boat weighted evenly. if you want to increase the pocket, add more weight up front.

Thanks - I actually want both a bigger pocket and a bigger wave....and....

I was "this" close to moving the extra 400lb bag to the middle..... BUT my expensive movable on request ballast, who doesn't always move on request and worse yet rarely lets me play around with the ballast and never lets me bring on new strange ballast to play with, was not cooperating.

My ballast is temperamental.

VP46
08-06-2014, 11:51 AM
on a serious note....

(I know I know what's more serious than your ballast not giving you full roaming rights...at will or at least more at will)

Let me re-frame that...

On topic:
Someone earlier mentioned that the angle of the wedge was designed to be variable to accommodate differing amounts of ballast.

My question:
If you are more heavily weighted, what would the effect of a steeper angle (40% versus 30%) be?

My Theory:
In my head it seems you would need/want a steeper angle with less weight to compensate?

Does that sound right?

rydog
08-06-2014, 12:18 PM
When you are talking angle, you referring to the angle the tab is deployed outward, correct?

VP46
08-06-2014, 12:20 PM
When you are talking angle, you referring to the angle the tab is deployed outward, correct?

Yep. Granted there is another angle, that which mimics the hull, that is not adjustable.

pmikler
08-06-2014, 02:33 PM
HAHAHA Thanks - I actually want both a bigger pocket and a bigger wave....and....

I was "this" close to moving the extra 400lb bag to the middle..... BUT my expensive movable on request ballast, who doesn't always move on request and worse yet rarely lets me play around with the ballast and never lets me bring on new strange ballast to play with, was not cooperating.

My ballast is temperamental.

FoggyNogginz
08-06-2014, 02:47 PM
very very expensive!:D:D

I'm willing to finance...and I could sell some things in this garage too. ;) Now I am TOTALLY distracted

jackpita
08-06-2014, 06:11 PM
Here is my current set of plans.
Working on a smaller bracket that will make two brackets for the same size of Starboard.
Until then, here you go!!

3/4 in Starboard
- cut 7.5x24 in plank out of the 24x27 in board
- diagonally cut the 7.5 in plank in half, corner to corner, makes two identical wedges. Will be the inside pieces
- mark and diagonally cut the remaining piece in half, 6 in x 13.5 in. Makes the top and bottom pieces.
- from 6 in side, measure and cut 3 in wedge. See drawings. Angle should match transom angle. Double check before cutting.

.5 in Starboard for paddle
- cut 6.5x24 in plank for the paddle.
- shape one end to match the transom.
- I used cardboard to make a template
- sand to fit

Clamp the two inside pieces together.
-Drill ~6 holes through both pieces, counter sink the holes
-Unclamp and clean away any plastic between the boards, re clamp, very tight
-Screw boards together.

Clamp the inside pieces to the top board.
-Repeat above with 2 in screws.
-Clamp the the bottom board to the three.
-repeat above with the 2 in screws.

Mount on transom.
- place paddle and measure before attaching.
- attach paddle
- paddle will be shorter than the mount at the rear, trim the mount even with the paddle

Cut hydro turf and fit to gate ends, protects hull

Mount on transom.
- hold turnbuckle to right transom eye.
- mark and drill 3/8 in hole at mark
- mark and drill rear 3/8 in hole for ratchet strap
- install eyebolts, locknut and washers on both top and bottom.
- connect turnbuckle and ratchet straps

You should have 2 pairs of equal size of scraps. Screw the equal size together and use as wedges for additional angle if desired. Just place the wedges between the platform and the mount and tighten the strap and the turnbuckle.

VP46
08-06-2014, 07:15 PM
Seems like you could hinge that add an arm and be adjustable with little effort.

VP46
08-06-2014, 07:18 PM
Btw where are you getting the starboard?

jackpita
08-06-2014, 07:30 PM
Best price I could find was http://www.boatersplus.com.
Great service.

tcmercil
08-07-2014, 10:14 AM
Ok.... Several things to comment on, but to those of us that we're wakeboarding in the late 90's - we were doing very similar things to get a bigger wakes in our direct drive boats.... We saw DIY towers - waterbed bags inside hockey bags, cement in plastic containers, ballast anywhere you could walk.... and ballast tanks mounted under the swim deck... So it's entertaining to see a shift again in achieving something better....

So here is my results on a gate:

Fist video:
06 x15
400 lbs lead port side
KGB full
Port ballast - with overflow bag on top
https://vimeo.com/102836046

I made this: trial #1
Walmart
Walking cane
Cutting board

Home Depot
Misc nuts/bolts
Hinge
2x casters (wheels removed)
Adjustable tie down

I found the red plastic in my old mans pole barn... It was too think to fit between the hull and swim deck

So - the results

200 lbs lead x both sides
Full ballast - evenly weighted
KGB
2 guys
https://vimeo.com/102836455


Ghetto?? Maybe - but happy with the results = yes...

I'm off to make an upgraded version that will look a bit better, but for the $30 I had into this, i would suggest it.

ttu
08-07-2014, 10:18 AM
wow, looks great!!!

VP46
08-07-2014, 11:21 AM
Looks good - are you able to comment on how the adjustability comes into play? Did you try at different angles and get different results? (So far no one has confirmed the advantage of being able to adjust.

I've been eying my wife's stack of cutting boards! lol

jackpita
08-07-2014, 11:55 AM
From I have read, will need the pros to confirm.
weight aft = bigger wake.
Weight along side and forward = longer and deeper pocket.
Greater the angle of the gate = longer and deeper the pocket.
I was able to remove my side weight and achieve nearly the same wake with my gate.
Again, over to the pros to confirm.

Roman
08-07-2014, 12:38 PM
I must be missing something on the designs that don't transfer the force to the platform but just the transom.

I like this and plan on making one for my 240.

One thing I cant figure out is with these gates, are you not supposed to list the boat? I would think you would get the best wake having the boat listed and the gate active. Is this not the case?

rydog
08-07-2014, 12:44 PM
Yep. Granted there is another angle, that which mimics the hull, that is not adjustable.

What about the tab being angled straight out from the hull or slightly down? From SS pics it looks like the tab is also angled downwards

ShamrockIV
08-07-2014, 02:44 PM
Thanks - I actually want both a bigger pocket and a bigger wave....and....

I was "this" close to moving the extra 400lb bag to the middle..... BUT my expensive movable on request ballast, who doesn't always move on request and worse yet rarely lets me play around with the ballast and never lets me bring on new strange ballast to play with, was not cooperating.

My ballast is temperamental.

all "ballast" is expensive and temperamental lol

VP46
08-08-2014, 12:29 PM
all "ballast" is expensive and temperamental lol

and fun to play with!

mzimme
08-08-2014, 12:50 PM
I must be missing something on the designs that don't transfer the force to the platform but just the transom.

I like this and plan on making one for my 240.

One thing I cant figure out is with these gates, are you not supposed to list the boat? I would think you would get the best wake having the boat listed and the gate active. Is this not the case?

This gate goes on the opposite side of the boat from where you surf.

Roman
08-08-2014, 01:32 PM
No I understand what side the device goes on.

What I would like to know, is are you still supposed to list the boat on one side with this device? Seems like guys are going back to even ballast with these. Is this optimal? Or is this happening due to convenience?

markmcfarland
08-08-2014, 01:51 PM
No I understand what side the device goes on.



What I would like to know, is are you still supposed to list the boat on one side with this device? Seems like guys are going back to even ballast with these. Is this optimal? Or is this happening due to convenience?


I think you do a little but not like normal. I was reading the bu forum on similar device and the guy was only loading about half the ballast slower speed lower rpms. There are several threads over there about it. Seems they have been making these themselves for longer. Which makes sense.

VP46
08-08-2014, 02:21 PM
Slower speeds, lower RPMs, and more wedge! (I am not sure about less Ballast though)

Gawd I wish my ballast was less temperamental.... now I am dying to mess with all the variables.

Never could figure out how to get the video to load...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VML2DGjmPqQ/U-UT_0Y0fEI/AAAAAAAAMqo/0gybrNPVc0s/w426-h756-no/14%2B-%2B2

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pRqSqDvRUKk/U-UT_yBmSgI/AAAAAAAAMqo/z6ftijvIbEk/w426-h756-no/14%2B-%2B4

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cmk7uxmHo20/U-UT_-TXeUI/AAAAAAAAMqo/vucvQg8NKrs/w426-h756-no/14%2B-%2B6

Ryan
08-08-2014, 06:41 PM
Slower speeds, lower RPMs, and more wedge! (I am not sure about less Ballast though)

Gawd I wish my ballast was less temperamental.... now I am dying to mess with all the variables.

Never could figure out how to get the video to load...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VML2DGjmPqQ/U-UT_0Y0fEI/AAAAAAAAMqo/0gybrNPVc0s/w426-h756-no/14%2B-%2B2

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pRqSqDvRUKk/U-UT_yBmSgI/AAAAAAAAMqo/z6ftijvIbEk/w426-h756-no/14%2B-%2B4

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cmk7uxmHo20/U-UT_-TXeUI/AAAAAAAAMqo/vucvQg8NKrs/w426-h756-no/14%2B-%2B6

Is that stock ballast? How many people in the boat?

ttu
08-08-2014, 06:46 PM
I got mine in today! very well made product. def no ghetto gate aric!

hopefully we can get some before pics listing and ton's of weight and with the shaper.

FoggyNogginz
08-08-2014, 06:50 PM
Back to the topic at hand. X14DD. Next home made iteration. Made from Starboard. Full internal aft, ski locker, v-bag in the front, 500 behind the engine, with ~200 port side aft. Able to surf without a 500 on the port side of the engine. Much more room inside the boat, which was one of my objectives. Did not try with the 500 on the port side, which would be very good for this setup. 10.8 mph.

Next effort will be to make the swim platform attachment smaller / lighter.

Jack - this is some really nice work. If you make another one before I do, I'll buy it! I'd like to try a similar design with a hinged arm. Do you think that 3/4in board is necessary, or can we go with 1/2?

ttu
08-08-2014, 09:16 PM
Jack - this is some really nice work. If you make another one before I do, I'll buy it! I'd like to try a similar design with a hinged arm. Do you think that 3/4in board is necessary, or can we go with 1/2?

the one that ss made is 1/2 inch.

Roman
08-08-2014, 09:57 PM
I got mine in today! very well made product. def no ghetto gate aric!

hopefully we can get some before pics listing and ton's of weight and with the shaper.

Dont feed the Troll!


The product in all honesty from the pictures looks awesome and very well made. I hope you make a few bucks off it! Its inspiring me to do the same for mine. First I need to fix my platform though.

Please guys take before and after pictures!

The surf wake on my 240 I can ride with just human ballast, so I cant wait to build and try something like this.

.....Time to go brainstorm!!!

clrussell
08-08-2014, 10:14 PM
Worked on mine some more tonight. It'll be much nicer this time around http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/09/a2azatyq.jpg

Before assembly

markmcfarland
08-08-2014, 10:53 PM
Worked on mine some more tonight. It'll be much nicer this time around http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/09/a2azatyq.jpg

Before assembly


Keep me posted. I'm going to try to put one together this weekend. Gonna rain here every day.

ssnaples
08-09-2014, 02:35 AM
finally had the opportunity to load the boat with some serious ballast and test out the starboard side surfing... all I can say is absolutely amazing! I had passengers free riding on their first time! I will post some pictures and videos when I return from my trip.

jackpita
08-09-2014, 06:42 AM
Used 3/4 inch. It mounts over the team platform which is 1.5 in thick. See the pics earlier in the thread. Four pieces, 2 inner pieces equal the platform, the two top and bottom hold it to the platform. I think you could use .5 in for the top and bottom pieces and the paddle. You could also use 3 x .5 in boards for the inner pieces. I had a sheet of 3/4 in plywood in the garage and just started using it as the template.

VP46
08-09-2014, 03:37 PM
Is that stock ballast? How many people in the boat?

This is just 750 in the port locker and 350 in the ski locker - no gate attached. Wife driving, 13 yo boy in observer seat dog and daughters 11 & 9 up front.

The gate allows me to surf further back.... worth having it for sure.

rydog
08-09-2014, 03:50 PM
So I don't think this specific question has been answered but for people that now have gates and are testing them out I am curious. What is the optimum set up so far?

All ballast full, level boat, with gate deployed?

Boat still listed as normal, but with gate deployed?

I understand the gate makes it more convienient because the boat does not have to be listed, but does the wake get even better with it listed?