PDA

View Full Version : 1979 S&S Newbee Resto


vipermeat
06-22-2014, 01:01 AM
I really appreciate all who support this site. I have learned a ton reading through it for the past few months.

A buddy is moving to Europe and sold me his 1979 Stars and Stripes. The boat is old school cool but has not been on the water for a few years as his lake is too low to get it off the lift. He is the second owner and got the boat with the house. I have all the docs and everything is original.

The trailer for the boat was last registered in 1988 and was in rough shape. I spent the last 1.5 months getting it into shape. It looks good but I have a big concern. I have a guy that is going to get the boat off the lake on Monday but I do not have anything that shows me how the chains work to lock the boat on the trailer when I get it loaded. I am going off intuition which in my experience is a bad plan. I spent the last few days looking through this site trying to find a pic of how it should look but I am still not confident. If anyone has input for me, I would really appreciate it.

My gameplan at this point is to get the boat running and enjoy it this summer. The full up restoration will start this winter. I have been looking for a project for my sons and I to tackle and this is it. Thank you all for any help you can offer. My limited experience here shows that this is where all the experts are.

Here are a few pictures of where I am.

Meat

vipermeat
06-22-2014, 01:50 AM
Here is the boat

Cloaked
06-22-2014, 01:51 AM
y but I do not have anything that shows me how the chains work to lock the boat on the trailer when I get it loaded. I am going off to intuition which in my experience is a bad plan. I spent that last few days looking through this site trying to find a pic of how it should look but I am still not confident. If anyone has input for me, I would really appreciate it.

From a 79 model I once owned. That is the way it came from the factory floor [a common hardware store safety chain (wrapped) and a turnbuckle]. Learn how to use the trailer properly for off-load/on-load. There is a particular way with the depth of the trailer for both directions. Too deep is more detrimental to proper ease of off/on. These trailers are made for drive off/on, not winching. Too deep floats the rear of the boat too much, consequently, lowering the bow of the boat and the bow eye which will drag across the bunk for the bow when backing off under power.

.

vipermeat
06-22-2014, 02:14 AM
Thanks Cloaked, I read the manual and it suggests 3 inches of the wheel fenders above the water when loading. My buddy winterized the boat 2 years ago and I do not want to try to get it going until I get it off the lake. One of my many problems. I will have to wench it up the first time I put it on the trailer.

On your set up, I do not see the bar that I have coming from the forward bunk board that accepts the bow ring. Was that not standard? I also have a crank mechanism instead of the screw system you showed. It may be aftermarket but the pic surely helps me figure it out. Thank you!

Cloaked
06-22-2014, 02:18 AM
Thanks Cloaked, I read the manual and it suggests 3 inches of the wheel fenders above the water when loading. My buddy winterized the boat 2 years ago and I do not want to try to get it going until I get it off the lake. One of my many problems. I will have to wench it up the first time I put it on the trailer.

On your set up, I do not see the bar that I have coming from the forward bunk board that accepts the bow ring. Was that not standard? I also have a crank mechanism instead of the screw system you showed. It may be aftermarket but the pic surely helps me figure it out. Thank you!Follow the manual on the trailer instructions.

There was no bar in 1979 (thus the safety chain from forward movement in the event of a sudden stop). That is the way they were offered from the factory. No winch for 1979.

Also tie down the rear of the boat. They can / do / and have come off the trailer fairly easily, contrary to popular belief.

Been there


I know where a newer model trailer is located near me for $1000 and is in decent shape. It will fit your 79. Came from a 1986 model with the safety bar. Best feature they ever offered....

.

vipermeat
06-22-2014, 02:19 AM
Here is the only pic I have of the trailer in the shape I found it, and where it is now.

Cloaked
06-22-2014, 02:25 AM
Definitely customized to meet someone's preference and not the OEM trailer.... Not necessarily a bad thing. Appears that started out from the OEM. I see one clue that makes me almost 100% sure of that, but it has been customized further.

Here is the trailer I was referring....

.

Cloaked
06-22-2014, 02:32 AM
Here is the entire trailer from 1979

.

vipermeat
06-22-2014, 10:01 AM
I really appreciate all who support this site. I have learned a ton reading through it for the past few months.

A buddy is moving to Europe and sold me his 1979 Stars and Stripes. The boat is old school cool but has not been on the water for a few years as his lake is too low to get it off the lift. He is the second owner and got the boat with the house. I have all the docs and everything is original.

The trailer for the boat was last registered in 1988 and was in rough shape. I spent the last 1.5 months getting it into shape. It looks good but I have a big concern. I have a guy that is going to get the boat off the lake on Monday but I do not have anything that shows me how the chains work to lock the boat on the trailer when I get it loaded. I am going off intuition which in my experience is a bad plan. I spent the last few days looking through this site trying to find a pic of how it should look but I am still not confident. If anyone has input for me, I would really appreciate it.

My gameplan at this point is to get the boat running and enjoy it this summer. The full up restoration will start this winter. I have been looking for a project for my sons and I to tackle and this is it. Thank you all for any help you can offer. My limited experience here shows that this is where all the experts are.

Here are a few pictures of where I am.

Meat
113276

Thanks again Cloaked. I guess I will see how it goes and then modify it if I don't like the setup. No worries modifying a previously modified trailer I suppose. I'll post better pics of the boat when I get it home.

vipermeat
07-04-2014, 12:04 AM
Got the boat in the water today for the first time. I have some problems but she's in pretty good shape. The bilge pump is not working which is my biggest concern right now. There is no sound at all when I throw the switch. I will try a new fuse tomorrow and see if that works. If not I will try to shoot wires to see if there is power. If that doesn't work, I suspect the kids will be hugely disappointed with their independence day.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-04-2014, 12:16 AM
Take a look at the bilge pump. The pump will pop out of the base. You may just be plugged up. You can also take a garden hose and back-flush the outlet. When I got my '77, the pump wouldn't do anything and I had to do both to get it to work,

If the pump is shot, you can always buy a cheap on/off pump at Wal-Mart and wire it in so you can use the boat.

Aric'sX15
07-04-2014, 12:53 AM
Sweet boat!!!! what lake in TX you on?

Cloaked
07-04-2014, 03:23 AM
Got the boat in the water today for the first time. I have some problems but she's in pretty good shape. The bilge pump is not working which is my biggest concern right now. There is no sound at all when I throw the switch. I will try a new fuse tomorrow and see if that works. If not I will try to shoot wires to see if there is power. If that doesn't work, I suspect the kids will be hugely disappointed with their independence day.Unless you are anticipating taking on a lot of water in a short time, I'd not abort a weekend of boating for a defunct pump. Next to worse case scenario, if you need to bail the bilge area, best I recall, the 79 has a transom drain plug. You can go under the swim platform and remove the plug. Take off, getting on down the river and it will self-siphon right out the drain hole. Stop, insert the plug and keep on boating.

Use a wrist lanyard when handling the plug or carry a spare. Dropping it would not be the best. I have used a jet ski / kill switch lanyard.

.

vipermeat
07-04-2014, 08:24 AM
Thanks again ya'll. I will get after it this morning.
We are on Lake Palestine this weekend.
Happy Independence Day to all! It's great to be in the land of the free and home of the brave.

cruiser
07-04-2014, 10:15 AM
Nice Boat. Enjoy

orbeamlb
07-04-2014, 10:29 AM
Nice looking '79! Welcome to Team Talk.

vipermeat
07-04-2014, 06:11 PM
Got it going this morning. Great afternoon on th lake with the kids until the battery died. More to fix but it's a brand new battery. Thanks again for the help. The bilge was clogged and the switch connection was bad.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-04-2014, 07:08 PM
Got it going this morning. Great afternoon on th lake with the kids until the battery died. More to fix but it's a brand new battery. Thanks again for the help. The bilge was clogged and the switch connection was bad.

Definite progress. Have you checked if the alternator is charging?

vipermeat
07-04-2014, 09:02 PM
I'm pretty sure it isn't. I hardly trust the gages but the volt meter was reading 11.5 all day.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-04-2014, 09:06 PM
Simple enough to fire it up in the driveway and put a voltmeter on it and see what you get. Should be kicking out 13.5+ volts. You can turn on the blower, and your now working bilge pump to see if it slows down the charge.

vipermeat
07-04-2014, 09:07 PM
Will a standard car alternator work on a marine engine?

vipermeat
07-04-2014, 09:09 PM
Those both do slow down the charge and at idle it is only pushing 11 volts

thatsmrmastercraft
07-04-2014, 09:11 PM
Will a standard car alternator work on a marine engine?

No. A marine alternator is screened to prevent sparks from making the boat go boom. If needed, you can take your alternator to a local shop for a rebuild, or talk with the guys at DB Electrical.

http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-3426-marine.aspx

thatsmrmastercraft
07-04-2014, 09:12 PM
Those both do slow down the charge and at idle it is only pushing 11 volts

sometimes these older alternators need to see 1200 RPM or so to excite the field to get the charge going. Sounds like you might have a tired alternator.

cbryan70
07-04-2014, 11:36 PM
Do you have a volt meter or amp meter in the dash? My 78 had amps. Before pulling the apt check the volts at the battery while running.

f925
07-04-2014, 11:39 PM
Will a standard car alternator work on a marine engine?


Work-yes. Safe- no. Marine alts are designed to not spark, therefore not ignite gas fumes in bilge. Do it right, get a marine alt. Same goes for starter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vipermeat
07-05-2014, 06:34 PM
So, the alternator has 13.4 volts out. The battery gets to 12.6 with a good charge and then depletes throughout the day. My guess is the wiring but for now I just keep charge/ski/charge/ski.

Cloaked
07-05-2014, 06:58 PM
So, the alternator has 13.4 volts out. The battery gets to 12.6 with a good charge and then depletes throughout the day. My guess is the wiring but for now I just keep charge/ski/charge/ski.New battery should hold. You're getting close. Something is not recharging or something is not holding. When you say new battery, do you mean new store-bought or new-to-you?

.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-05-2014, 07:16 PM
So, the alternator has 13.4 volts out. The battery gets to 12.6 with a good charge and then depletes throughout the day. My guess is the wiring but for now I just keep charge/ski/charge/ski.

Do you have any accessories that could be drawing the battery down? Do you cruise for extended periods of time at idle?

vipermeat
07-05-2014, 08:43 PM
The only switches on the boat are the blower, bilge and lights. Any of those could be the culprit at this point but the bilge and blower work with the switch. Lights do not work and I have not investigated that yet. The battery is a week old from the MC dealer. They said they noticed the charge not getting to the battery when I had them check it out and we're going to fix it. If they did I do not see it but I am new to this thing. My brothers place is at the end of a half mile no wake area so there is a lot of time at idle but in gear.

Cloaked
07-05-2014, 09:21 PM
The only switches on the boat are the blower, bilge and lights. Any of those could be the culprit at this point but the bilge and blower work with the switch. Lights do not work and I have not investigated that yet. The battery is a week old from the MC dealer. They said they noticed the charge not getting to the battery when I had them check it out and we're going to fix it. If they did I do not see it but I am new to this thing. My brothers place is at the end of a half mile no wake area so there is a lot of time at idle but in gear.So you're double dang sure you have voltage coming out of the alternator.....
And a new battery.......

Nothing there in your lineup of options that will suck a battery dry and the alternator is a 51 amp OEM so you should have a good recipe for success. Double check the alternator....

Only thing between the alternator and battery is the cable (at the alternator) to the starter sending a charge back to the battery. Check it. It should be an orange cable, maybe 12 or 14 gauge leading to the starter.

Check all connections, grounds, termination points, ground surfaces, wire connections to connectors, and anything that resembles....at the alternator, starter, ballast resistor, and battery. Something is creating a fail-open scenario.

If alternator and battery are good and there is no stuff running, cable is all that is between those two good components.

I suspect alternator output....or a bad 2AWG to the battery/starter(speaking bi-directionally).

$0.02

.

toddthelineman
07-07-2014, 12:03 AM
I had a broken connector do this to me on a diesel truck. I was able to fix it with tooth pics to get home.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-07-2014, 12:42 AM
The only switches on the boat are the blower, bilge and lights. Any of those could be the culprit at this point but the bilge and blower work with the switch. Lights do not work and I have not investigated that yet. The battery is a week old from the MC dealer. They said they noticed the charge not getting to the battery when I had them check it out and we're going to fix it. If they did I do not see it but I am new to this thing. My brothers place is at the end of a half mile no wake area so there is a lot of time at idle but in gear.

I had this happen to me when I first got my boat. You probably aren't hitting enough RPM's to excite the field in the alternator to get it charging. Connect a DVOM (digital volt/ohm meter) to the battery and start up the boat as normal and see what the voltage is. You will probably see roughly 12.5 volts. Now slowly increase speed to about 1300 RPM's and you will likely see the alternator kick in and see about 13.5 volts.

Solution: Once engine is warmed up, increase speed to the RPM that you know excites the field in the alternator and starts charging the battery.

vipermeat
07-07-2014, 06:53 AM
Thanks again. We had a great day yesterday after cleaning up wires and connectors in the morning and keeping the RPM up while on the water. I also tightened up the exhaust ports and we didn't seem to take on nearly as much water.

I will start my punch list tonight. I learned a lot about my boat this weekend thank you all for the help.

vipermeat
07-07-2014, 09:51 PM
My friend got this boat when he bought a house on the lake. The PO to him and the PO's wife were a competition skiers and I believe the original owners of the boat. They had no kids and no use for the rear seat so it was in storage on their dock for years.... and years. When I got it, it was covered but not protected other than that. As you will see in the pic, it looks like a squirrel or a rat took up roost in it. I cleaned off all the muddobbers and other mess and I have a patio chair cushion on the starboard side and duct tape on the rest for this summer but that thing is high on the list. I might have to take care of it before the summer is over.

vipermeat
07-07-2014, 09:58 PM
I am thinking about installing a new wiring harness on the boat. Can anyone help me with the best place to purchase an new one?

We really enjoyed this weekend when the boat wasn't stranded in the middle of the lake. Well even that was kinda fun.

Cloaked
07-08-2014, 04:58 PM
My friend got this boat when he bought a house on the lake. The PO to him and the PO's wife were a competition skiers and I believe the original owners of the boat. They had no kids and no use for the rear seat so it was in storage on their dock for years.... and years. When I got it, it was covered but not protected other than that. As you will see in the pic, it looks like a squirrel or a rat took up roost in it. I cleaned off all the muddobbers and other mess and I have a patio chair cushion on the starboard side and duct tape on the rest for this summer but that thing is high on the list. I might have to take care of it before the summer is over.Your boat originally came with the deluxe interior package. I had one like that.... Nice option... I'd get that seat repaired and keep it in good shape. They are few and far between. Take it out and let folks sit on a life jacket in the floor. This thing wasn't made to be a family pontoon rider....


.

Olaff
07-17-2014, 12:11 AM
I got my '82 MC S&S about 11 months ago. Mine was in a touch better condition when I bought it, but I have been through a few of the same things:
Alternator - I gave up on the armature shop rebuilding my old one and let him talk me in to a "single wire" alternator (GM-style). It was like $80, super easy to instal, and It charges right from idle; no RPM level to exceed to excite it.
I am learning as I go and my boys are getting involved too. Nice thing is it's basic. No computers or panels of relays or solenoids or EFI or power steering. Kinda like a tractor, if it's got gas, air, and spark, it's gonna start and run.
Sounds like you have a local MC dealer helping, but one thing I have found to look at as you get in to it: check your stringers. From '82 and back they are wood core. They have a tendency to rot inside of the fiberglass. Those are the backbone of your boat; the motor, transmission, and pylon bracket all attach to them. If they aren't solid and sound, be careful.

One question...
What's that round thing you are pulling with the kids on it?:confused:

Olaff
07-17-2014, 12:13 AM
Here is mine the day I bought it...

vipermeat
07-17-2014, 06:57 AM
Beauty S&S Olaff. What's the red thing in the back?; -) thanks for the words. The alternator is on the list and the stringers look good from what I see. There are no spongy spots in the floor so fingers crossed. She is at my brother's place a few hours away so I'm not working on her this summer to much. We are going out tomorrow though. There were some old school OBrien training skis that came with the boat. Hopefully I can get the older kids skiing this weekend.

vipermeat
07-18-2014, 07:49 PM
We got the lift/cradle on the dock and it works..... small victories. I am concerned about the angle bow to stern. I pulled the drain plug and no water came out. There is water under the engine but not enough to get sucked out by the bilge. Is that normal, or should I modify the lift so the boat sits at an angle?

Next question: should water be getting to the area where the exhaust hoses are? If so, how does that water drain? If not, I have some investigating to do. Thanks again.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/eze9agev.jpg

Olaff
07-20-2014, 10:39 PM
Viper,
That red thing was in the boat from the previous owner and he politely removed it before I took ownership of the vessel.

As far as bilge water and where it drains etc.; me and another newbie (81mastercraft) were discussing that very thing. The stock location of the bilge pump is right above the second (middle) tracking fin, which is below the forward half for the engine oil pan. From my observations of sitting dead in the water, underway at various speeds, or sitting flat on the trailer, that location is "high ground" in the bilge as far as I can tell. I have flipped the pump switch to "manual" after a full day on the lake with kids in and out of the water and gotten nothing out. Immediately after pulling it on to the trailer and hauling it out of the water, but while still on the ramp incline, I pulled the transom plug and got about 2 gallons of water out. Then after the short 5 minute drive to the house, I blocked the trailer wheels while on my sloped driveway (facing up hill), got the kids to sit on the swim platform for counterweight, and lifted the tongue of the trailer until the rudder touched the driveway. Got about another 2 gallons out.
So this weekend I pulled up the forward floor panel to get access to the mounting hardware for my pylon so I could tighten up some wiggle in the pylon. What I found was about two gallons of water sitting in the deepest part of the "v" of the bow just below where the windshield is. This is while sitting flat on the trailer. I have seen pics of this era boat with an access port cut into the floor forward of the pylon, so I'm assuming either the factory started installing them up there, or owners found the flaw and moved the pumps themselves then cut the access port to be able to clean out the pump strainer.
So I considered moving the bilge pump up there, or running two bilge pumps but have decided against both. What I am going to do instead is essentially fill the low spot in the forward bilge/bow area that is inaccessible when the floor is installed so the water will naturally drain aft even at a level angle. I may be doing that this week and will post pics and a description of the project.
I'm going to start a thread describing what I did to reinforce the pylon. I'm pretty proud of my engineering on this one.... Then I will continue the thread with the forward bilge work.

vipermeat
07-21-2014, 08:45 AM
Thanks Olaff. I removed most of the water with a hand pump before putting her to bed. I am going to raise the front of my lift to allow it to drain. I do not see any harm in it and no news on TT equals good news I hope. This should be temporary as I will take her off the lake this fall and get to work. What an awesome boat! With the age of all the seals and hoses I will baby her a little thus summer.