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vegashomeexpert
11-18-2005, 01:39 PM
Went out with Wakeseeky Sunday and her/their '05 X-30 has power steering. My '03 X-30 obviously does not as it is very hard to turn left while under power. Is there a viable power steering option available? (Or, do I have a problem with my steering?)

Ric
11-18-2005, 01:43 PM
Went out with Wakeseeky Sunday and her/their '05 X-30 has power steering. My '03 X-30 obviously does not as it is very hard to turn left while under power. Is there a viable power steering option available? (Or, do I have a problem with my steering?)
get the new rudder and voila' you have power steering!


FWIW, seekey doesnt literally have power steering as no MC has that to my knowlege

vegashomeexpert
11-18-2005, 01:48 PM
get the new rudder and voila' you have power steering!


FWIW, seekey doesnt literally have power steering as no MC has that to my knowlege
Ordered it last week based on Wakeseeky's experience. Driving her boat, there was a huge improvement in responsiveness. She has power steering. My concern is that with more rudder surface, my boat will be even harder to turn left with the new rudder. My 3rd says why would I ever even want to turn left? :rolleyes:

Ric
11-18-2005, 01:52 PM
Ordered it last week based on Wakeseeky's experience. Driving her boat, there was a huge improvement in responsiveness. She has power steering. My concern is that with more rudder surface, my boat will be even harder to turn left with the new rudder. My 3rd says why would I ever even want to turn left? :rolleyes:
you mean like with a power steering pump and all just like an auto??? How can that be?
How does it work?

vegashomeexpert
11-18-2005, 01:56 PM
you mean like with a power steering pump and all just like an auto??? How can that be?
How does it work?
Don't know. Remember seeing "hydraulic steering" refered to in some of the newer brochures. My old searay did have power steering with the pump, power steering fluid, etc. Don't know if the terms "hydraulic steering" and "power steering" are interchangable.

Ric
11-18-2005, 01:58 PM
Don't know. Remember seeing "hydraulic steering" refered to in some of the newer brochures. My old searay did have power steering with the pump, power steering fluid, etc. Don't know if the terms "hydraulic steering" and "power steering" are interchangable.
Thats where I'm lost, the searay was an outdrive and that'd be easy to do power steering but a vdrive??? hard to get the controls down to the rudder, I'd think
MYMC???? Calling MYMC :steering:

bigmac
11-18-2005, 02:05 PM
Ordered it last week based on Wakeseeky's experience. Driving her boat, there was a huge improvement in responsiveness. She has power steering. My concern is that with more rudder surface, my boat will be even harder to turn left with the new rudder. My 3rd says why would I ever even want to turn left? :rolleyes:

Your boat should handle exactly like hers - you have the same steering arrangement as her '05.

vegashomeexpert
11-18-2005, 02:09 PM
Your boat should handle exactly like hers - you have the same steering arrangement as her '05.
Hmm.... maybe I have other issues. Will have the dealer look at it when that sexy new rudder is installed. (Sorry, just got back from trolling the swimsuit thread. Right now everything, including rudders, is sexy!)

bigmac
11-18-2005, 02:17 PM
Hmm.... maybe I have other issues. Will have the dealer look at it when that sexy new rudder is installed. (Sorry, just got back from trolling the swimsuit thread. Right now everything, including rudders, is sexy!)

Let me clarify. The difference between her boat's steering and yours is that she had the '06 rudder and you don't. When you put that '06 rudder on your boat, they should handle the same unless you have a problem with your cables or your inadequately greased.

I hope she'll correct me if I'm wrong, but she doesn't have "power steering" or "hydraulically assisted" steering on her boat.

JimN
11-18-2005, 02:18 PM
You don't actually need to get it down to the rudder, you either need additional force to be applied to the tiller arm or the tiller arm needs to be longer so the original force imparts more torque due to the longer lever arm. The pump just pressurizes the lines and when the wheel is turned in one direction or the other, the mechanism causes the fluid to extend/retract the piston in the cylinder.

bigmac
11-18-2005, 02:21 PM
You don't actually need to get it down to the rudder, you either need additional force to be applied to the tiller arm or the tiller arm needs to be longer so the original force imparts more torque due to the longer lever arm. The pump just pressurizes the lines and when the wheel is turned in one direction or the other, the mechanism causes the fluid to extend/retract the piston in the cylinder.

The question is, "does an '05 X-30 come with hydraulically assisted steering?"

vegashomeexpert
11-18-2005, 02:30 PM
The question is, "does an '05 X-30 come with hydraulically assisted steering?"
All I can say is, in the '05 X-30, the pressure applied to the steering wheel turning left while under power is the same that is required to turn right. And, that pressure sure felt "assisted". With my '03, sitting still the steering wheel turns with ease left and right. While under way, turns very easy to the right but is a bugger to the left.

east tx skier
11-18-2005, 02:31 PM
I thought the only improvement was rack and pinion steering. I prefer my boat's stiff steering.

Ric
11-18-2005, 03:13 PM
You don't actually need to get it down to the rudder, you either need additional force to be applied to the tiller arm or the tiller arm needs to be longer so the original force imparts more torque due to the longer lever arm. The pump just pressurizes the lines and when the wheel is turned in one direction or the other, the mechanism causes the fluid to extend/retract the piston in the cylinder.
soooo, there is a pump on an X30?

bigmac
11-18-2005, 03:26 PM
All I can say is, in the '05 X-30, the pressure applied to the steering wheel turning left while under power is the same that is required to turn right. And, that pressure sure felt "assisted". With my '03, sitting still the steering wheel turns with ease left and right. While under way, turns very easy to the right but is a bugger to the left.

You mean the steering seems better in Wakeseeky's '05 X-30, with the new rudder, don't you?

vegashomeexpert
11-18-2005, 03:35 PM
You mean the steering seems better in Wakeseeky's '05 X-30, with the new rudder, don't you?
The steering is more responsive for sure. I attribute that to the rudder. There is no difference in the amount of torque the driver has to apply to the steering wheel of her boat whether you are turning left or right. My steering wheel turns very easily to the right while underway, but way more torque must be applied when turning to the left while underway. I think Wakeseeky used the analogy of a sports car to a pickup truck with the new vs. old rudder. Don't remember her mentioning any difference in the amount of pressure that has to be applied to the steering wheel. Hope that is clear? :smile:

JimN
11-18-2005, 05:55 PM
If the steering was drastically harder in one direction, I would remove the rack from the helm, starting with the rudder straight and move the rudder manually. I suspect that if it's harder turning to the left, the propwash is on that side of the rudder.

bigmac
11-19-2005, 02:06 AM
The steering is more responsive for sure. I attribute that to the rudder. There is no difference in the amount of torque the driver has to apply to the steering wheel of her boat whether you are turning left or right. My steering wheel turns very easily to the right while underway, but way more torque must be applied when turning to the left while underway. I think Wakeseeky used the analogy of a sports car to a pickup truck with the new vs. old rudder. Don't remember her mentioning any difference in the amount of pressure that has to be applied to the steering wheel. Hope that is clear? :smile:

Yes, except the part about whether or not Wakeseeky's boat has actual power steering or hydraulic-assisted steering. I'd be very surprised if it did. ;)

vegashomeexpert
11-19-2005, 10:52 AM
Yes, except the part about whether or not Wakeseeky's boat has actual power steering or hydraulic-assisted steering. I'd be very surprised if it did. ;)
The '05 brochure says all mastercraft models have "precision touch II rack & pinion steering". Must not be any power steering their but sure felt like it. Will have to see how mine handles with the new rudder before I make any further judgement.

JimN
11-19-2005, 11:11 AM
I think I would still check your steering for any restriction in one direction or the other. If the new rudder is deeper (front to back), it'll be even harder to turn with the propwash. They may have changed the rack/pinion gears, too. That could make it easier to steer the other boat. The gears may be lower pitch, but the deflection could be the same with a shorter tiller arm.

vegashomeexpert
11-19-2005, 11:37 AM
I think I would still check your steering for any restriction in one direction or the other. If the new rudder is deeper (front to back), it'll be even harder to turn with the propwash. They may have changed the rack/pinion gears, too. That could make it easier to steer the other boat. The gears may be lower pitch, but the deflection could be the same with a shorter tiller arm.
I do have some concern about the steering being even harder to the left because of more surface area on the rudder. Won't know until it comes in.

bigmac
11-19-2005, 12:37 PM
I think I would still check your steering for any restriction in one direction or the other. If the new rudder is deeper (front to back), it'll be even harder to turn with the propwash. They may have changed the rack/pinion gears, too. That could make it easier to steer the other boat. The gears may be lower pitch, but the deflection could be the same with a shorter tiller arm.

It seems to me that changing the rack/pinion gearing would indeed decrease the force of steering at the cost increasing travel, but making up for the increased travel by decreasing the lever-arm of the tiller would increase the steering force to back where you started. IOW, the only way to decrease steering force would always result in decreased rudder defelection for the same amount of steering wheel turning.

My guess would be that, even with increased total rudder surface area, a decrease in steering force could be achieved by increasing the rudder surface area in front of the rudder post relative to the surface area behind the post. Water flow acting on that front part of the rudder should work with opposite force of water flow acting on the part of the rudder behind the pivot post. I suppose one could calculate the net change in steering force by looking at the ratio of front surface area to rear surface area on the old rudder and comparing it to the same surface-area ratio on the new rudder.

The confusing part to me about that scenario is the effect of the prop wash, which is offset from the rudder by a couple of inches, as well as the effect of prop torque at various speeds. Sounds like an expert in hydrodynamics would need to weigh in on the subject. Presumably, MasterCraft has such experts involved in their rudder designs...

I'd be interested to know what the steering travel lock-to-lock is on the '05's compared to previous years.

WakeSeeky
11-20-2005, 01:42 PM
Sorry I'm so late to this... yes, I'm one of those still out on the lake. :D

Awwright, you made me curious so I went and pulled out all of the documentation on the boat. I can't find anything that mentions power or hydraulic steering. To be honest, I'm not sure what we've got, but neither one of us remembers anything about power steering, hydraulic assist, or anything like that. I'll have to wait along with everyone else for MYMC or someone to chime in on that one, but whatever we've got is stock '05 except for the '06 rudder.

I will say that the rudder made a huge difference. Our boat was much harder to turn to the left than to the right, the new rudder has basically eliminated that "problem", which I think is actually just prop wash. See what you think when you get the new rudder, to me your description of handling sounds an awful lot like what we had before, although I certainly wouldn't rule out JimN's suggestions, he's the expert here, not me, I just like my new rudder!

How many more days 'till yours comes in?? :D

Cloaked
11-20-2005, 02:17 PM
:popcorn:

...

WakeSeeky
11-20-2005, 02:24 PM
I found the other brochure I have and believe it or not, it happens to be 2003. All boats have Precision Touch II Rack and Pinion steering listed as standard, so I'd guess ours are probably the same.

However... I doubt it would hurt to take a look at the whole setup, especially if the new rudder doesn't seem to give you the same improvements. I'm just not aware of any reason, other than the rudder, why our boats should handle differently?? Assuming everything is working like it's supposed to, of course.

vegashomeexpert
11-20-2005, 06:23 PM
I found the other brochure I have and believe it or not, it happens to be 2003. All boats have Precision Touch II Rack and Pinion steering listed as standard, so I'd guess ours are probably the same.

However... I doubt it would hurt to take a look at the whole setup, especially if the new rudder doesn't seem to give you the same improvements. I'm just not aware of any reason, other than the rudder, why our boats should handle differently?? Assuming everything is working like it's supposed to, of course.
Should be in this week. I can only hope that my boat turns as good and easily as yours with the new rudder! Love that popcorn thing, Sporty!! :uglyhamme