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View Full Version : How did our country come to things such as this???


bradamerry
11-08-2005, 09:07 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174951,00.html

6ballsisall
11-08-2005, 09:17 PM
Unbelievable........ we really live in a society that has changed its values.

bcampbe7
11-08-2005, 09:18 PM
Hadn't heard about this!
A principal of a middle school not too far from where I live was beaten pretty severely the other day. Apparently a couple guys came into the school and beat him with some sort of object.

Crazy, scary World we live in.

Mag_Red
11-08-2005, 09:35 PM
:rant: It's those damned video games I tell ya!

On a serious note.........it's sad what our society has become.........well at least a small part of it. Don't know what the cause of it all is.........single parent families???? Violence in today's media?? People straying from religion??? Fast food??? I just don't have any answers :(

LakePirate
11-08-2005, 09:55 PM
People are devoid of original thought. How many copy cat criminals do we see? Mag's suggestion of today's media is a good place to start. It is OK for the media to tell us about murders, rape, violence and the glorification of events like this (just look at the source of the story Fox News a national news outlet), yet, they turn around and point the finger at Hollywood. I am sure that there is a story behind all of this. One that explaines this action, there is no explanation for this action. However, will we hear that, probably not, once the shock factor is gone no update. That is unless it is a slow news week (see runaway bride).

I will get off of my soapbox now.

6ballsisall
11-08-2005, 10:00 PM
In this case I think alot of it comes back to the parents. C'mon where was mom and dad? For a young kid to even think about, yet actually kill someone let alone an authority figure there had to be signs of extreme anger and rage. I don't know this kids parents but do they know there son or where they too busy climbing the corporate ladder and self gratification to realize the types of emotions their son had?
Simply scary :vomit:

stevo137
11-08-2005, 10:04 PM
Perhaps that young man never read the sixth commandment...

LakePirate
11-08-2005, 10:10 PM
Oh no doubt. How does the old adage go.....It takes a village.

Often times parents are not involved for a multitude of reasons. I played sports throughout high school and more of my teammates that not had no one in the stands to support them. Why? Because they didn't care, no. They were working 2nd jobs and swing shifts (for shift diff) so that they could put food on the table. I guess it is a classic case of pick your poison, provide for your kids at the expense of knowing what is going on in their lives or know what is going on and not being able to provide.

Unfortunately, most of America is not afforded the luxuries that we on this board are. Does this make them bad people, no. However, it does not give us the right to judge the parents in a situation where we do not have any of the facts surrounding the event, just the event itself.

Farmer Ted
11-08-2005, 10:22 PM
It most likely revolves around a complete and total lack of any shape form or fashion of parental involvement.

Playstation/X-Box/Boob tube baby sitting kids results in kids not being able to distinguish between reality and fiction coupled with a lack of accountability for their actions and we get these Columbine jag-off types in their black trench coats killing the people who attempt to instill any form of discipline in their lives or hold them accountable for their actions.

I saw this a lot in kids who'd joined the Air Force with the attitude of "nothing better to do" and when they were repeatedly told it's unacceptable to come to work late, drunk, hung-over (to the point they can't work) or they never got clued in to the big secret that drug abuse is incompatible with military service. Big shock when they were suddenly unemployed and couldn't understand why when they only did E once, or only smoked a joint once.

Until people stop pu$$y-footing around all this PC bull$hit and start holding kids/parents accountable nothing will change.

Farmer Ted
11-08-2005, 10:24 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174951,00.html


What's up with the Wildman in Mark P stealth mode? :wavey:

6ballsisall
11-08-2005, 10:26 PM
Oh no doubt. How does the old adage go.....It takes a village.

Often times parents are not involved for a multitude of reasons. I played sports throughout high school and more of my teammates that not had no one in the stands to support them. Why? Because they didn't care, no. They were working 2nd jobs and swing shifts (for shift diff) so that they could put food on the table. I guess it is a classic case of pick your poison, provide for your kids at the expense of knowing what is going on in their lives or know what is going on and not being able to provide.

Unfortunately, most of America is not afforded the luxuries that we on this board are. Does this make them bad people, no. However, it does not give us the right to judge the parents in a situation where we do not have any of the facts surrounding the event, just the event itself.

Lake, a very valid point and I hope my post didn't come off as arrogance or to think since we on this board are so fortunate to enjoy some luxuries in life that not all can have. I certainly don't know this kids parents or the whole situation but while maybe his parents do work two jobs each to support the family, I'd hope that somewhere in there they were able to look there son in the eye and really see what might be bothering him so much to do such an unbelieveable crime.

In the end I probably have a chip on my shoulder about this, I have a relative that went to Columbine High School in Colorado and witnessed the event first hand. She will be messed up for life all do to 2 rich kids that were really messed up in the head and their parents were oblivious to it.

LakePirate
11-08-2005, 10:44 PM
Don't worry about ruffling any feathers, this is also a topic that hits close to home for me as well. I know one of the kids shot in the copy cat deal at Heritage High School in Conyers, Georgia. I had been in the cafeteria one year prior to the shooting, quite an odd feeling.

AHudgins
11-08-2005, 10:51 PM
It's all been said before.....Single parent families, parents who don't care, parents who are too busy to even know what their kids are doing. I coached little league baseball for almost ten years but finally gave it up. Not because of the kids, but because of the parents. Very few of the kids lived with both parents in the house. Most of them still dropped their kids off at practice and sometimes I had to wait over an hour for one parent to show up and pick them up when practice was over. Believe me, it is heart breaking to hear a 12 year old tell you that his parents argue about "whose turn it is to take the kid to practice".

Spend time with your kids, know what they are doing, and who they are doing it with!!!

maristarman
11-09-2005, 12:28 AM
This is a true tragedy and my prayers go out to those who have lost loved ones in this tragic event.

I also mean no disrespect to the opinions voiced so far on this thread, or to the people who have personally suffered through similar circumstances.

But what ever happened to individual accountability?

This thread started out asking "What ever happened to this country?".

Part of the answer is this:
Somewhere along the way people in this country have decided that personal responsibility doesn't exist. Everything is someone elses fault.

Just look at this thread. The parents have been blamed for everything from being absentee parents to being overbearing parents, to something in between.

Wake up everybody! There are bad people out there. They start out as bad kids. Bad kids used to be able to be disciplined. Nowadays a parent can't discipline a kid for fear of some neighbor or teacher calling social services and taking the kid away.

The result is that these kids never learn that there is a need, or incentive to modify their behavior.

There have been quite a few murderers, rapists, serial killers, etc. that came from normal well adjusted homes.

I don't know any of the details about these kids, or their parents, I haven't read any of the articles in detail.

I'm just amazed how quickly people are willing to blame others.

I also have a problem with the whole "It takes a village" thing. How about "It takes some morals."?

We live in a society today that trys to devalue human life, trys to force a large majority of society to accept lifestyles that they don't find morally acceptable, and trys to take any and every reference to "God" out of society.

Anyone who believes in this whole "It takes a village thing" should put it to the test. Send your kids to go live in San Francisco for a year. See what that village does to your kids.

P.S. Not all Mastercraft owners were born with silver spoons in their mouths. My parents both worked. Not because they wanted too but because they had to. They couldn't come to my sporting events.

Amazingly, somehow I never felt compelled to go on a violent rampage, resort to a life of crime, or blame anyone and everyone else for my problems.

Go figure...........

stevo137
11-09-2005, 12:53 AM
Maristarman,
You make some very good points regarding accountability and made other good points that I believe answer Brad's question.
I think that many of the points made by the others are also elements that can lead into this type of behavior.
I had a childhood that left most looking at me in pity but despite overwhelming odds, I CHOSE to make a better life for myself...

ajgressette
11-09-2005, 07:51 AM
Its a lack of Home Training. Parents should be more responsible. :twocents:

sizzler
11-09-2005, 08:00 AM
my sentiments exactly

bradamerry
11-09-2005, 08:03 AM
What's up with the Wildman in Mark P stealth mode? :wavey:
I just want to be like Mark. :banana:

Farmer Ted
11-09-2005, 09:06 AM
I just want to be like Mark. :banana:

What this world needs is a few more Wildmen! :banana:

Leroy
11-09-2005, 09:49 AM
The sad thing is you could probably post one of these almost every day.

There is violent death almost every day in Indianapolis.

I'm from the otherr school, it doesn't take a village it takes two involved parents and a slap of the hand when needed!

lakes Rick
11-09-2005, 12:10 PM
Don't worry about ruffling any feathers, this is also a topic that hits close to home for me as well. I know one of the kids shot in the copy cat deal at Heritage High School in Conyers, Georgia. I had been in the cafeteria one year prior to the shooting, quite an odd feeling.

If you look at the stats, ALL of the shooters were harassed and bullied kids at school.. I remember wanting to beat up some of the A$$'s strutting around making life hell for some of the kids at school.. It has just accelerated to shooting..
NOT condoning this, but I heard a pretty intense issue about the school shootings on Radio
I have brought this up before but my 2 sons were at Thurston High in Springfield Or during the Kip Kinkle shooting.. Kip Kinkles parents house was one block from one of my friends.....

Personally I think we need another meteor to clean out the gene pool....

djhuff
11-09-2005, 02:02 PM
Along the same lines, a funny spin on it.

http://www.geocities.com/wakkowhite/50113148317043711022bf470.jpg

AHudgins
11-12-2005, 01:02 AM
I am not putting all of the "blame" on the parents. Unless the kid was brain damaged, he still knew that pointing a gun at another person and pulling the trigger was wrong, and that someone could die. My main point is that from the time kids are messing in their diapers, it is the parents responsibilty to teach their kids morals, responsibility, accountability, etc. When I see a 14 year old basketball player get ejected from a game for cussing at a referee, and then father gets ejected for flipping off the same ref., I know the apple didn't fall from the tree.

My 16 year old does stupid things, but I hope he doesn't feel he has no solution to a problem other than to kill someone....I think I have taught him better. If he does screw up, at least I can say that I tried my best. One of my favorite lines came from "That 70s Show". The teenager said "Dad, bad things are always happening to me". The dad replied "Well son, that's because you are dumb@ss".

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-12-2005, 11:04 AM
To all who think stuff like this is caused by poor parenting, I have one thing to say: ( JR, I have to borrow your fav line again) TRUE DAT!

THere is too much poor parenting in the world these days. I see it all the time and I live in a small town where its not that severe of a problem(but its still a problem). I see the way some of these kids are raised and it makes me depressed. see, thats a major reason I dont want to have any kids. I see the world turning to $#@* and I wouldnt want to subject a child to growing up in that. I am only 32 years old, but I grew up in a much simpler time. there is no family values anymore. my parents did things with me. I was nearly always involved in thier activites, as were their friends kids. lots of family activites. The taught me to downhill ski, took me ice skating, sleding, waterskiing, swimming, fishing, hunting, baseball, and while they werent musicians themselves, they were invovled in my love of music. THey came to concerts, listen to me practice, etc... they welcomed me to involve friends too. This style of living is fading away. People just "dont have time" for it anymore according to them. My girlfriend wants kids someday, and she may convince me....who knows. but I will tell you this, If we ever make the decision to have children, everything in life gets put on the "back burner " to family at that point. Family is the most important thing in life. People have forgotten that. Have you ever heard those radio commercials from some organization promoting family values that says "take a kid fishing"?? I know this might sound corny, but its not. People forget how much that means to kids. YOu know, I have family in the DC area and they are living the "big city" lifestyle and while their lives are fast paced, they are all about their kids. Its refreshing to see. They are supportive in their kids activites, they take them boating, support thier interests, and spend time with them. You can see how that positively affects the kids lives.

THink about this: the next generation is going to run our schools, our hospitals, nursing homes, etc.... what are we going to be facing? I dont want to be doom and gloom and say all the young are evil or anything. but its not going in a good direction. I know kids that are "good kids", but they are lazy and have no aspirations in life. they just want to sit on their a$$ all day. they arent criminals, or bad people, but they havent been taught how to be a functioning member of society. They dont want to have a job, earn money to do fun things like waterski, snomobile, nice cars, etc... they just want to sit on their a$$, and thats it. ITs scary. TOO much laziness in this world.
OK, i am just ranting now. SOrry, but this is a serious problem thats shaping our society's future.

6ballsisall
11-12-2005, 11:12 AM
To all who think stuff like this is caused by poor parenting, I have one thing to say: ( JR, I have to borrow your fav line again) TRUE DAT!

THere is too much poor parenting in the world these days. I see it all the time and I live in a small town where its not that severe of a problem(but its still a problem). I see the way some of these kids are raised and it makes me depressed. see, thats a major reason I dont want to have any kids. I see the world turning to $#@* and I wouldnt want to subject a child to growing up in that. I am only 32 years old, but I grew up in a much simpler time. there is no family values anymore. my parents did things with me. I was nearly always involved in thier activites, as were their friends kids. lots of family activites. The taught me to downhill ski, took me ice skating, sleding, waterskiing, swimming, fishing, hunting, baseball, and while they werent musicians themselves, they were invovled in my love of music. THey came to concerts, listen to me practice, etc... they welcomed me to involve friends too. This style of living is fading away. People just "dont have time" for it anymore according to them. My girlfriend wants kids someday, and she may convince me....who knows. but I will tell you this, If we ever make the decision to have children, everything in life gets put on the "back burner " to family at that point. Family is the most important thing in life. People have forgotten that. Have you ever heard those radio commercials from some organization promoting family values that says "take a kid fishing"?? I know this might sound corny, but its not. People forget how much that means to kids. YOu know, I have family in the DC area and they are living the "big city" lifestyle and while their lives are fast paced, they are all about their kids. Its refreshing to see. They are supportive in their kids activites, they take them boating, support thier interests, and spend time with them. You can see how that positively affects the kids lives.

THink about this: the next generation is going to run our schools, our hospitals, nursing homes, etc.... what are we going to be facing? I dont want to be doom and gloom and say all the young are evil or anything. but its not going in a good direction. I know kids that are "good kids", but they are lazy and have no aspirations in life. they just want to sit on their a$$ all day. they arent criminals, or bad people, but they havent been taught how to be a functioning member of society. They dont want to have a job, earn money to do fun things like waterski, snomobile, nice cars, etc... they just want to sit on their a$$, and thats it. ITs scary. TOO much laziness in this world.
OK, i am just ranting now. SOrry, but this is a serious problem thats shaping our society's future.


Tru Dat ;)

JimN
11-12-2005, 11:41 AM
"The next generation is going to......" - how many generations of adults have said this? My guess is, most of them. There are a lot of reasons for all of the BS going on, but I think that fear of being a good/great parent is to blame. If they really discipline the kids, they're apparently afraid of being sued or having the poor little tykes taken away. Teachers can't discipline the kids now and the parents of this generation probably were never told NO or that they couldn't have what they wanted. My parents and their friends used to say that they wanted to give the kids the things they couldn't have when they grew up. Not hard when they grew up during the Depression. Also, a lot of people have kids when they are in no way ready for something like that. They haven't grown up to the point that they can take care of themselves, let alone little kids who need attention 24 hours a day.

Doug may not like this one, but then there are the lawyers who will file a lawsuit that doesn't need to be filed, nor would the person on whose behalf it was filed, consider doing it until they got the "need for greed". Also, I think far too many criminal cases have been plead down to the point where there really is no punishment involved. People see this and go right ahead and do whatever they want without fear of retribution. They haven't been taught, or haven't learned, the difference between right and wrong, good and bad. Then, they go and pound out a bunch of kids. Don't even get me started on the Welfare system. :rant:

TV and movies don't help, either. Too much permissiveness, excessive drinking and drug abuse, parents who don't give a rat's butt about the things they should, and nobody wants to be held accountable.

It's gonna take a long time for this crap to change. My guess is 3 generations for it to be a little better, and I'm not much of a pessimist.

stevo137
11-12-2005, 11:42 AM
To all who think stuff like this is caused by poor parenting, I have one thing to say: ( JR, I have to borrow your fav line again) TRUE DAT!

My girlfriend wants kids someday, and she may convince me....who knows. but I will tell you this, If we ever make the decision to have children, everything in life gets put on the "back burner " to family at that point. Family is the most important thing in life. People have forgotten that.
Great points UMP. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
We need you get married and working on those kids ASAP! ;)
One of the solutions to the problem is more people like you leading by example...

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-13-2005, 11:22 AM
Great points UMP. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
We need you get married and working on those kids ASAP! ;)
One of the solutions to the problem is more people like you leading by example...

Well, we have been "practicing" so in case we decide to have them, we will know how :dance: :banana: :uglyhamme