PDA

View Full Version : Sad news for GM, Ford and Dodge


zsqure
02-13-2014, 10:37 AM
Tundra to share the 5.0 cummins with Nissan.
http://www.equipmentworld.com/report-toyota-tundra-to-go-diesel-with-same-5-0l-cummins-v-8-as-nissan-titan/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=02-13-2014&utm_campaign=EW&ust_id=4fcf021b41

Dylan
02-13-2014, 10:49 AM
Toyota has hinted at this for so long.... I'll believe it when I see it.

ncsucarjock88
02-17-2014, 09:18 PM
Looking like Toyota may get it for 2016, based on some news coming from an informed Dodge Dealer today...

I think this is where Sergio Marchionne actually made a mis-step by not using this engine in the Dodge Ram 1500.

Time will tell.

thatsmrmastercraft
02-17-2014, 09:51 PM
I hope this isn't the end of the Ford being the the best selling truck. Hate to break a streak of almost 40 years.:rolleyes:

scott023
02-17-2014, 10:07 PM
I hope this isn't the end of the Ford being the the best selling truck. Hate to break a streak of almost 40 years.:rolleyes:

:jackit

thatsmrmastercraft
02-17-2014, 10:11 PM
:jackit

http://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/rofllg.gifhttp://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/rofllg.gifhttp://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/rofllg.gif

mikeg205
02-17-2014, 10:25 PM
lol...hahahahaa...

JohnE
02-17-2014, 10:35 PM
Pete, I didn't know you are a ford guy...

thatsmrmastercraft
02-17-2014, 10:45 PM
Pete, I didn't know you are a ford guy...

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l237/c_ulater/emotions/MotorHead/RotatingLogo.gif

scott023
02-17-2014, 10:53 PM
http://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/rofllg.gifhttp://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/rofllg.gifhttp://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/rofllg.gif

lol...hahahahaa...

Thanks for picking up on that Mike.:D

scott023
02-17-2014, 10:53 PM
Pete, I didn't know you are a ford guy...

We're trying to sway him off the Darkside. ;)

Aric'sX15
02-17-2014, 10:59 PM
Bad news? I think not. Ford sold more trucks in september and october than Toyota did in 2013.

To add a little less ford presence (you're welcome scott haha) It took only took Chevy a fiscal quarter to outsell toyota's 2013 sales.



But, I am excited to see the availability of half ton diesels rising in the US. It's a step in the right direction.

Roman
03-17-2014, 01:39 PM
Toyota has hinted at this for so long.... I'll believe it when I see it.



We saw some test mules recently on a trip to Colorado testing on Loveland pass. Its real! The engineers didnt want to talk though, but it was definetly a diesel and you dont normally bring packages like that to public roads unless you bringing to market I would think.

Roman
03-17-2014, 01:41 PM
Forgot to add, you can get the RAM 1500 with an 8 speed and a 3.0 v6 diesel now. It is a very nice package.

pmkkdx
03-17-2014, 03:06 PM
glad its at least a real diesel ... not like the earlier failed attempt in the late 1970s into the 1990s in the Chevy half ton with the 350 converted to diesel, later replaced with the 6.2 and later with the 6.5 (don't think the 6.5 was available in half tons though).

Jerseydave
03-17-2014, 05:46 PM
Forgot to add, you can get the RAM 1500 with an 8 speed and a 3.0 v6 diesel now. It is a very nice package.

The diesel is made by Fiat, 420 lb. ft. of torque, 26 mpg (probably 2WD version?)

Price one and you'll think twice from what I've read. No real gain in torque, diesel fuel cost $.60 or $.70 more per gallon. So where's the economy in that?

To each their own but I'll stick with my Ford Eco-boost. :D

roadster02
03-17-2014, 09:38 PM
Why is it sad news? What possible reason would there be to buy one of these Johnny come lately brands, when GM, Ford, and Dodge have been doing diesels since the 90's?

Tundra to share the 5.0 cummins with Nissan.
http://www.equipmentworld.com/report-toyota-tundra-to-go-diesel-with-same-5-0l-cummins-v-8-as-nissan-titan/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=02-13-2014&utm_campaign=EW&ust_id=4fcf021b41

BudmanV24
03-17-2014, 10:37 PM
glad its at least a real diesel ... not like the earlier failed attempt in the late 1970s into the 1990s in the Chevy half ton with the 350 converted to diesel, later replaced with the 6.2 and later with the 6.5 (don't think the 6.5 was available in half tons though).

Word. Had one of those in a motorhome from the mid 90s. Biggest pos ever. The only fix would of been to replace it with a 7.3 powerstroke.

Roman
03-18-2014, 09:07 AM
The diesel is made by Fiat, 420 lb. ft. of torque, 26 mpg (probably 2WD version?)

Price one and you'll think twice from what I've read. No real gain in torque, diesel fuel cost $.60 or $.70 more per gallon. So where's the economy in that?

To each their own but I'll stick with my Ford Eco-boost.

The diesel is made by fiat....I dont see the problem there?

420lb ft of torque? Hooked up to a ZF 8 speed trans? Where is the issue?

28mpg's I think was certified in 4wd weight.


I have driven them, and they are awesome packages. Feels like im driving a freight train with all the torque. I think it is targetting the guys who have money, want a diesel that can tow and still get great mpg's hooked and unhooked, and want that all in the best handling truck on the market.

Ive read the eco-boost is getting brutal real worl fuel economy, and im not surprised.
Are you getting good fuel economy in yours?

I ask in all serousness. I read lots of people slamming all packages. I have a crew cab ram 1500, 4x4 with the 3.6 8 speed and 3.55 gears. Ill get 22mpg's at 80mph. We tow a 4500-5000lb horse trailer aswell 1 or 2 times a month and it pulls it just fine. Still gets great fuel economy towing that, but I doubt you guys drive like my lady does when she tows it. Drives like a grandma....but i dont complain. End result is good fuel economy, and reduced drivetrain wear

Forrest-X45
03-18-2014, 12:19 PM
The new V6 diesel in the Ram 1500 is produced by VM Motori which is now owned by Fiat. They purchased the remaining 50% of the company from GM this past Oct.

The 1/2 ton diesel market is for customers who still want the shorter bed and comfy ride of a 1500 that tow heavier on the weekends but don't need a HD truck to daily drive or need to tow over 10K pounds. Just my $.02......

I would sure look into them if I wanted a 1/2 ton. The ecoboost is a nice engine for towing but the fuel economy numbers are a farce. The new 5.3 from GM gets better fuel economy in real world driving and in a Car and Driver head to head. Not saying the new 5.3 tows better but I would like to see a head to head towing comparison.

Looks like in 2015 ford is introducing a 2.7 ecoboost to try and get the fuel economy numbers they wanted from the 3.5.

mzimme
04-05-2014, 09:14 PM
I can attest to the false fuel economy numbers on the ecoboost. In the 4500 miles I've driven mine, it's averaged a total of 14.2mpg. That's lower than the city mpg claim of 16. Oh well, it tows great and that's really what I bought it for.

dihrdskir
04-29-2014, 07:15 PM
It has been my experience that new generation direct injection diesels are a cut above when it comes to fuel economy. The 3 ltr diesel in my toyota with 5 speed auto will get over 30 mpg as a daily driver. Two weeks ago towed 2.5 ton over 1000 miles for an average economy figure of 19 MPG. It's a horses for courses thing and the turbo petrols will be quicker but for towing and general duty low down torque is king. Down here diesel is about 10% more costly than gas and the purchase price is higher too but refuelling is less frequent and resale/engine life is where you win the tortoise vs hare race. Diesels are much preferred in larger or 4x4 vehicles and it has been that way for about 20 years. On my previous Toyota, replaced by identical vehicle, depreciation was 10% of purchase price after 60,000 klms and 3 yrs.

Aric'sX15
04-30-2014, 01:12 AM
I can attest to the false fuel economy numbers on the ecoboost. In the 4500 miles I've driven mine, it's averaged a total of 14.2mpg. That's lower than the city mpg claim of 16. Oh well, it tows great and that's really what I bought it for.

Dang. I'm getting 17 mixed in my 2wd 5.0 and Budmanv24 gets 14.2 in his 5.0 fx4 and drives the piss out of it.

CruisinGA
04-30-2014, 07:13 AM
I get about 18 mixed driving in my '14 F150 4x4 ecoboost.
10k miles so far.
Love the highway ride a tows my FJ40 great. Integrated trailer brake controller is slick too

mzimme
04-30-2014, 08:17 AM
I get about 18 mixed driving in my '14 F150 4x4 ecoboost.
10k miles so far.
Love the highway ride a tows my FJ40 great. Integrated trailer brake controller is slick too

Yeah, I love the ride, it definitely does not feel like a truck.

bsloop
04-30-2014, 08:50 AM
On my previous Toyota, replaced by identical vehicle, depreciation was 10% of purchase price after 60,000 klms and 3 yrs.

Wow, things really are upside down, down under ;)

That level of depreciation makes no sense unless demand is so high and manufacturers cant keep up?
A straight line depreciation is 30 years with assumed zero maintenance cost!

I would be trading every 3 years for sure. Leasing should also be dirt cheap. BUT, I seriously don't believe the statement to be factual over more than just a single transaction.



Direct injection is a promising advancement. I do believe mfg need to step up stock fuel delivery and filtering if they are going to continue increasing injector pressures and sophistication.

Roman
04-30-2014, 09:59 AM
Direct injection is a promising advancement. I do believe mfg need to step up stock fuel delivery and filtering if they are going to continue increasing injector pressures and sophistication.

Very little fuel economy gain with direct injection, especially on an N/A car. You still need to run stoic so you don't smoke the valves or a cat. You get a lot of help in transient maneuvers though, since you don't have to worry about how much fuel is in your puddle, so that's where your real fuel economy gain would be (city cycle). I can also see it helping for cold starts.

bsloop
04-30-2014, 11:24 AM
Very little fuel economy gain with direct injection, especially on an N/A car. You still need to run stoic so you don't smoke the valves or a cat. You get a lot of help in transient maneuvers though, since you don't have to worry about how much fuel is in your puddle, so that's where your real fuel economy gain would be (city cycle). I can also see it helping for cold starts.

Cant argue too much with the statement but most applications are turbo. Ecoboost and Big 3 diesels for example.
DI probably wont show up in my lawnmower but that is ok, people need to recognize where efficient/clean technology makes sense and not create undo costs on those that don't..... marine catalytic converters :rolleyes:

FoggyNogginz
05-07-2014, 03:29 PM
Why is it sad news? What possible reason would there be to buy one of these Johnny come lately brands, when GM, Ford, and Dodge have been doing diesels since the 90's?

Toyota has been making diesel engines since 1956....just not here in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_engines#Diesel

http://www.toyota.co.uk/diesel-cars

The Hilux (Tacoma) has been offered in a diesel since 1979.

We have just been super slow to catch on here in the US because gas was cheap, the dollar was strong, and we were all too spoiled to care about either. Now that we have ULS diesel, reliable turbos, and a weaker economy...people are starting to adopt diesel much more openly. This is also why VW, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and Mazda have all introduced new diesels to the US in the last five years.

f925
05-07-2014, 06:16 PM
Diesel is far more efficient than gas and the rest of the world has caught on. The US market is late to the game. Has anyone seen the numbers on the Mercedes E-55 Blutec hybrid? 67.2 mpg. We cant tow a boat with it but thats impressive. The eco-boost motors were a joke for fuel economy from the get go advertising 15% fuel efficiency over other motor options. That equates to... 1mpg. Fun to drive but all turbo motors are.
I can not wait to catch up with Europe in the diesel market in standard cars. While in belgium years ago I drove a diesel focus, diesel opel astra wagon, diesel VW golf, and diesel Renault Kangoo. I enjoyed them all. The overall build quality seemed higher in the focus as well. It was proof to me that the whining, under torqued gas motors of the every day economy/ mid range cars are inferior for daily driving. We are stuck in the notion of black smoke billowing, loud, and smelly diesels of a decade ago. For our SUVs and trucks we should be offered a diesel option.
As far as the chevy 5.3, I average 16.2 city, 19.5 highway (70-75 mph) in my 07 4wd avalanche. I do long for a bit more power while towing my 5k lb boat though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

russlars
05-08-2014, 03:42 PM
I can attest to the false fuel economy numbers on the ecoboost. In the 4500 miles I've driven mine, it's averaged a total of 14.2mpg. That's lower than the city mpg claim of 16. Oh well, it tows great and that's really what I bought it for.
What a disappointment! I get 14.6 MPG in mixed driving consistently with my '09 F-150 King Ranch with the old 5.4L and 6 speed trans. Sure glad I didn't trade up when they were promising 23 with the Ecoboost.

Roman
05-09-2014, 08:29 AM
Just an FYI as to why there are so few diesel options here.

It boils down to two things.

1. Emissions. They are not as strict over in Europe. Our diesel emission regulations here are a bit ridiculous.

2. Diagnostics. In Europe, they are not required to have OBD monitor as much things and to as strict control as we do. OEM's can not get the reliability they require out of these systems yet or cant justify it ($$$).


I know, VW and Audi are doing it and have been, but they have been in the market doing it a while. They have expertise in these systems, and have the resources.


As far as people not getting the claimed FE numbers from there eco-boost, you are just too pedal happy. This is not Ford lying to you. This is your wonderful EPA tests that dictate these numbers. Not to much to lie about. You get a good driver to run the trace and you get a FE output for that run. Bam, that's your label. Google "ftp trace fuel economy". This is what OEMs run to determine FE. Its mandated. Now if your an OEM, are you not going to optimize for this run? Of course you are, everyone does. EPA needs to update these to be more realistic IMHO.

But what it really boils down to is people just being to pedal happy in these eco-boost engines. You drive in boost, you get crappy FE. Drive out of boost, you get good FE.

I find it funny too the guys that complain the 5.3 GM engine, or many other v8's don't have the power. I've towed with them, they are fine at 6500lbs. Now if your expecting to have all this acceleration, be able to pass on the highway, merge like nobody's business.......your probably not driving like you should be loaded up (ie. taking it easy, staying out of the left lane). Only exception is guys at altitude. I've towed a NA v6 truck with 4000lbs up a mountain in Colorado, and the engine was what I would call struggling a bit, turning around 4-5k rpm.
Im not complaining though, I just find it comical. Plus you guys are the reason we have nice big v8's so you tow your occasional 5k loads like its not there.

It sounds like Im *****ing but Im not. Im just weird. A 5.3GM is more than enough for me and I have no problem towing 6500lbs with it, but I take it easy when I tow. Mind you, my 2000lb car with 250hp isn't enough. I think 350-400hp would be ideal.

mzimme
05-09-2014, 09:02 AM
What a disappointment! I get 14.6 MPG in mixed driving consistently with my '09 F-150 King Ranch with the old 5.4L and 6 speed trans. Sure glad I didn't trade up when they were promising 23 with the Ecoboost.

Well, they didn't promise 23 to be fair. I think sticker shows 16/21. I'd even be happy with 16 at this point, but it doesn't even come close.

I will say, the tank of gas I'm on currently has been my best yet. I'm at 16.8 city/highway mix. I've heard these things need to "break in" before they start getting better mileage, so maybe I'm getting to that point? I don't know...

f925
05-09-2014, 05:15 PM
Just an FYI as to why there are so few diesel options here.



It boils down to two things.



1. Emissions. They are not as strict over in Europe. Our diesel emission regulations here are a bit ridiculous.



2. Diagnostics. In Europe, they are not required to have OBD monitor as much things and to as strict control as we do. OEM's can not get the reliability they require out of these systems yet or cant justify it ($$$).





I know, VW and Audi are doing it and have been, but they have been in the market doing it a while. They have expertise in these systems, and have the resources.





As far as people not getting the claimed FE numbers from there eco-boost, you are just too pedal happy. This is not Ford lying to you. This is your wonderful EPA tests that dictate these numbers. Not to much to lie about. You get a good driver to run the trace and you get a FE output for that run. Bam, that's your label. Google "ftp trace fuel economy". This is what OEMs run to determine FE. Its mandated. Now if your an OEM, are you not going to optimize for this run? Of course you are, everyone does. EPA needs to update these to be more realistic IMHO.



But what it really boils down to is people just being to pedal happy in these eco-boost engines. You drive in boost, you get crappy FE. Drive out of boost, you get good FE.



I find it funny too the guys that complain the 5.3 GM engine, or many other v8's don't have the power. I've towed with them, they are fine at 6500lbs. Now if your expecting to have all this acceleration, be able to pass on the highway, merge like nobody's business.......your probably not driving like you should be loaded up (ie. taking it easy, staying out of the left lane). Only exception is guys at altitude. I've towed a NA v6 truck with 4000lbs up a mountain in Colorado, and the engine was what I would call struggling a bit, turning around 4-5k rpm.

Im not complaining though, I just find it comical. Plus you guys are the reason we have nice big v8's so you tow your occasional 5k loads like its not there.



It sounds like Im *****ing but Im not. Im just weird. A 5.3GM is more than enough for me and I have no problem towing 6500lbs with it, but I take it easy when I tow. Mind you, my 2000lb car with 250hp isn't enough. I think 350-400hp would be ideal.


I don't have problems towing with the 5.3 under normal conditions, but in hilly areas it leaves alot to be desired especially coming out of a 7.3L power stroke. No surprises. I would also like to add a trans cooler for those long hilly hauls. Nothing a cam and custom tune wouldn't solve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

roadster02
05-09-2014, 06:29 PM
If you are in the market for a diesel pickup, please consider supporting your own country, buy American made models. They are all proven performers with the bugs worked out. Buy domestic trucks from domestic manufacturers. Keep your dollars here in the USA.

Aric'sX15
05-09-2014, 10:08 PM
Do your research, american trucks are pretty Mexican. My dollar goes to who makes the best auto maker.

f925
05-09-2014, 10:13 PM
Do your research, american trucks are pretty Mexican.


And Toyota trucks feed american families. The corporate profits do go to Japan, but they are assembled here. American trucks are feeding central american families. There is no winning anymore. Ohh and no one has all the bugs worked out. Every vehicle has its weaknesses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WakeWise
05-09-2014, 10:26 PM
If you are in the market for a diesel pickup, please consider supporting your own country, buy American made models. They are all proven performers with the bugs worked out. Buy domestic trucks from domestic manufacturers. Keep your dollars here in the USA.

Concur.

WakeWise

FoggyNogginz
05-10-2014, 09:00 AM
Buy American? Yes, I agree....but this will surprise most folks. Globalization has made it hard to dissect what comes from where...but this report is pretty thorough in the sources.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-8-most-american-trucks-for-2013.html

roadster02
05-10-2014, 10:50 AM
I don't care where the parts come from. The headquarters of GM, Ford, and Chrysler are in the USA, and that's where the money ends up. Where are the headquarters of the other brands? Follow the money, keep it in the USA.

Rossterman
05-10-2014, 11:38 AM
Was at a conference this week and T Boon Pickens talked about the future of diesel and natural gas. Today, natural gas powered vehicles cost 1/2 as much to fuel than diesel. Many large trucking companies have ordered and will be moving to natural gas due to diesel pricing itself out of the market. Many already have begun the switch (ups, etc). Commercial truck manufacturers now offer a LNG model. He predicts prices on diesel will soften in the future as more commercial trucking switches. Natural gas prices will climb some due to demand.

f925
05-10-2014, 11:40 AM
Chrysler is owned by Fiat. Now Italian. That leaves GM and Ford.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FoggyNogginz
05-10-2014, 11:32 PM
I don't care where the parts come from. The headquarters of GM, Ford, and Chrysler are in the USA, and that's where the money ends up. Where are the headquarters of the other brands? Follow the money, keep it in the USA.







...and here is where the money goes....



http://kogodnow.com/autoindex