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View Full Version : Do you guys ever pull tubers?


88 PS190
11-01-2005, 11:27 AM
If ya do, do you use the rear tow eye, or the pylon, and does it change the way the boat steers terribly to have it on the tow eye?

Thanks.

Ric
11-01-2005, 11:34 AM
Yes, anytime the little ones ask me to. I am not proud!
We tow the little ones slow from the tower and pull big kids from the tow eye in the stern. Steers fine (for tubing)

vogelm1
11-01-2005, 11:44 AM
All of the above. We even use the extended pylon if it's just the kids and we're not trying to get anyone airborne. The rear tow eye is strong and have pulled two adults at once on occasion. If we have lots of company in the boat, and people sitting in the rear seat, rear tow eye is only option...haven't noticed any difference in handling between that and pylon.

bigmac
11-01-2005, 11:46 AM
If ya do, do you use the rear tow eye, or the pylon, and does it change the way the boat steers terribly to have it on the tow eye?

Thanks.

I love to pull tubers...any excuse to get the boat out and used. We use the rear eye - gets more leverage to get the tube swinging faster than the pylon. If we're looking for a tame ride, we use the pylon.

east tx skier
11-01-2005, 12:21 PM
We don't do the tube thing.

roddydog
11-01-2005, 12:24 PM
Geez! Joy stealer.

M-Funf
11-01-2005, 12:27 PM
Yup, I'll pull a tube...but only when the water is too choppy to ski, and there are NO other skiers around.

I don't have an eye at the center in the back, so I either pull from one of the two rear eyes if there are more than 3 people in the boat, or from the pylon if there are only 2-3 in the boat...

east tx skier
11-01-2005, 12:30 PM
Geez! Joy stealer.


Well, if that was directed at my post, I suppose I should elaborate. Not one person has ever requested it. We had one with our I/O, but all the people we took out wanted to do other things behind the boat. Since then, it has been misplaced. All the little ones in the family want to do is zip sled. After 2 outings on the zip sled, the 7 year old wanted to ride the trainer skis.

Where we ski, it is really too narrow for tubes anyway unless you go slow and straight (never met a tuber who wanted to do that). There is still a cross atop the channel marker where an innertuber collided with it and was killed. She was 17. I prefer water toys with control surfaces personally.

Just my opinion. If you guys are having fun tubing, more power to ya! :friday:

bcampbe7
11-01-2005, 12:32 PM
Don't own a tube.
My biggest gripe about pulling a tube is that once you get the kid on the tube they are less likely to try skiing or boarding. Just my personal observation.

east tx skier
11-01-2005, 12:33 PM
Don't own a tube.
My biggest gripe about pulling a tube is that once you get the kid on the tube they are less likely to try skiing or boarding. Just my personal observation.

Noticed that, too. I prefer the zip sled. Wish they still made them.

bigmac
11-01-2005, 12:37 PM
Don't own a tube.
My biggest gripe about pulling a tube is that once you get the kid on the tube they are less likely to try skiing or boarding. Just my personal observation.

Some truth to that, no doubt. OTOH, personally, I have no particular investment in forcing my kids to waterski, or wakeboard, or hydrofoil. I have always liked for them to be outside and active, and it's nice for them that we've always had a good stable of boats, but I don't particularly care what watersport they choose to participate in, as long as they have fun.

IMHO.

ksmaristar91
11-01-2005, 12:57 PM
Not to sound stupid but what is the Zip sled? If it is what i think it is, it is what my dad got me started on when i was a kid, and definetly made me want to ski. :confused:

bcampbe7
11-01-2005, 01:02 PM
Some truth to that, no doubt. OTOH, personally, I have no particular investment in forcing my kids to waterski, or wakeboard, or hydrofoil. I have always liked for them to be outside and active, and it's nice for them that we've always had a good stable of boats, but I don't particularly care what watersport they choose to participate in, as long as they have fun.

IMHO.


Agreed.
It's all about having fun. :banana:
Wife and I do not have kids yet. When we do I hope that they will enjoy skiing and/or wakeboarding and not care to tube. Lugging a tube around is kinda a pain IMHO. My 190 is pretty cramped as it is. :eek:

88 PS190
11-01-2005, 01:12 PM
We have an I/O and it tends to get alot of tube action in, I was just wondering how the MC's did w/ that attachment.

At our place we get alot of kids, and we tend to pull two tubes w/ two people on them, or 4 little tubes at a time behind the runabout, keeps them from trying skis... i suppose it could, one of my little brothers slaloms, one does nothing and refuses to tube unless the boat goes slow PANZY and the other kneeboards and combo skis. My older brother, father and I slalom.

I think we're gonna pick up a boom though, i'd like to learn footing, and it'd help getting the panzy bro up on skis, he's in highschool and hasn't learned... tsk.

jmyers
11-01-2005, 01:20 PM
We don't pull a tube, I think the major reason is it is hard to deal with on the boat(no room)! And I really want to encourage everyone to ski or board! :headbang: But if my son asked me to bring the tube I would do it, because the boat should be used for family enjoyment not just looking cool and trying to impress because it is a MC!!! :moon: Not to offend any "MC" owners that think differently!

ski_king
11-01-2005, 01:34 PM
Not to sound stupid but what is the Zip sled? If it is what i think it is, it is what my dad got me started on when i was a kid, and definetly made me want to ski. :confused:
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=445&stc=1
Zip Sled same as Bob Sked

east tx skier
11-01-2005, 02:00 PM
Some truth to that, no doubt. OTOH, personally, I have no particular investment in forcing my kids to waterski, or wakeboard, or hydrofoil. I have always liked for them to be outside and active, and it's nice for them that we've always had a good stable of boats, but I don't particularly care what watersport they choose to participate in, as long as they have fun.

IMHO.

Yeah, certainly not forcing anyone to do anything. So far, all the little ones in the family can't wait to get out there though. The pictures don't lie. They're all grinning from ear to ear.

By the way, if anyone else has another orange "zip sled" or "bob sked" they want to unload, please PM me. Ours has been well used, but we could always use a back up. I like the orange ones especially because they have the side grab handles.

vegashomeexpert
11-01-2005, 05:59 PM
Have tubed twice using the rear eye. 2 Obrien Super Screamers, one teenage boy on each and let the tube wars begin! Never laughed so hard in all my life! Kids and tubes flying 6-8 feet in the air, flying over each other, crashing into each other. What a hoot! Need to get some longer ropes and attach them to the tower. The riders may need parachutes! The boat handles great from the rear ski eye. Will see how things go from the tower...

PendO
11-01-2005, 06:12 PM
We pull tubers ... espc. for those who are guests and don't know other watersports ... however, if my brother or his friends get on the tube it is more like watching a Rodeo and you just see how fast you can dump somebody (without jerking the tube out w/ a bunch of slack).

We pull off the tow eye ... buddy with a Bu' was pulling tubers off his carbon fiber tower ... I had to bust his balls for that one!

shepherd
11-01-2005, 08:02 PM
Haven't used the tube in a few years and only then when kids were visiting us (we don't have any of our own). The kids love it, so that's why I have it. When we lived in Orlando, my sister brought her family to visit. They went to the beach, Disney, Universal Studios. But the HIGHLIGHT of their trip was riding the tube behind their uncle's boat on the lake. My sister was wondering why they spent all that money on the amusement parks!?! So, Mastercraft beat Disney :woohoo:

Oh, I always used the stern ski eye on my boat when pulling a tube.

ecelis
11-01-2005, 08:18 PM
We only use the tube if we want to make nice pictures of the skiers/wakeboarders. You attach the tube about 6 feet shorter than the other rope and that allows you to take pictures from real close. Only do it when it is good for skiing or riding, you do not want the tuber to fly out... with the camera.

NatesGr8
11-01-2005, 08:24 PM
always pull tube from the tower, my motto is, if you wanna tube, you're gonna get killed. needless to say, not many of my friends want to tube anymore, nor do they want to try footin off the boom (it certainly is funny when we get a first timer though)

erkoehler
11-01-2005, 08:45 PM
Whats wrong with footing off the boom? :confused:

6ballsisall
11-01-2005, 08:54 PM
Probably wont ever do any tubin off my boat. I hope to raise my kids up on true watersports. Secondly, I came muscle strands away from loosing my right arm from a tubing accident (playing too rough) so I know first hand what being to aggresive on a tube can do for you. I would never want anyone to have to go thru that like I did.

Leroy
11-01-2005, 10:09 PM
I'll pull whoever, doing whatever they want, however they want it! It's all about getting out and having some fun. For the teenagers, they cannot have it too rough tubing, but still like skiing. They have quit boarding after couple of face smacks.

88 PS190
11-02-2005, 01:23 AM
no one will ever be too old for the tube battle, there's just too much masculinity on the line to deny a challenge on that.

gene dobies
11-02-2005, 07:24 AM
Only pull a tuber if I have to, such as the kids,, it is ssssoooooooo boring.

bradamerry
11-02-2005, 07:42 AM
The dog likes it...

BIGBADBLUE
11-02-2005, 08:33 AM
It is tough to keep kids from tubing. We have 3 under 10 and when they bring friends they want to tube because it is easy and takes no skill. Dad forgets the tubes a lot so he forces the friends to learn to ski ... oh darn.

With all that said ... I still get forced to pull tubes a couple times a seaason

H20skeefreek
11-02-2005, 08:36 AM
The dog likes it...
with the dog, I assume you are pulling in a straight line?? if so, be careful of the exhuast factor. I pulled my mom-in-law skiing, and she stays inside the wake. She about passed out b/c of the CO (we get along great, so that's not a good thing).

Ric
11-02-2005, 08:53 AM
with the dog, I assume you are pulling in a straight line?? if so, be careful of the exhuast factor. I pulled my mom-in-law skiing, and she stays inside the wake. She about passed out b/c of the CO (we get along great, so that's not a good thing).
:eek: how short was the towline??

Jorski
11-02-2005, 09:03 AM
We don't do the tube thing.


With the new baby....you will in a few years eastie :cry: !!!

bigmac
11-02-2005, 09:04 AM
Frankly, I don't find that my Maristar 230VRS does that great a job of pulling tubes - the steering is too stiff for those quick cranks right and left that launch the tube off the wake. My Century I/O with power steering was much better for that purpose.

I'm not complaining, mind you...my MasterCraft is a superior boat in virtually all other categories. Anyway, I don't consider it likely that MasterCraft will ever be marketing any of their boats as "World Record Tubing Tow Boat" any time soon.

http://mccollister.info/century.jpg

6ballsisall
11-02-2005, 09:07 AM
Anyway, I don't consider it likely that MasterCraft will ever be marketing any of their boats as "World Record Tubing Tow Boat" any time soon.


Theres one for you Mr. Dorton! :firejump: Actually now a days from what i see on the lakes there just might be a market for it. :rolleyes:

east tx skier
11-02-2005, 10:42 AM
With the new baby....you will in a few years eastie :cry: !!!

I wouldn't count on it. Lots of other little ones in the family already. Not a one of them has asked for the tube. They are too enthralled with the zip sled. And that suits us fine.

mbradey
11-02-2005, 11:13 AM
Tubing is great and a regular part of our summer watersports. I pull between 2 and 5 tubes behind the Mastercraft, usually the kids and females as they prefer a gentle ride. For the guys who want a killer ride we usually hook up behind my brothes Hydrostream as it gives a much better ride and we expect to get thrown off 4-5 times per ride. Its a great spectator sport, especially when you do a couple of circles to make huge rollers then pull the tubes through them throwing everyone off at the same time. Everyone including those in the boat comes back with huge smiles, and thats what its all about.

Jorski
11-02-2005, 12:41 PM
I wouldn't count on it. Lots of other little ones in the family already. Not a one of them has asked for the tube. They are too enthralled with the zip sled. And that suits us fine.

I have never actually seen one of those zip sleds out on the lake. My kids both started out in the tube, but lost interest once they learned to ski. Tubing was a reasonable way for the kids to get used being behind the boat, with the wind in their face and the water splashing their faces...all with the requisite large grin.

I think that the kids who stick with tubing, are not offered much in the way of skiing and instruction by their parents.

My two are addicted to skiing now. :D

bigmac
11-02-2005, 01:41 PM
I have never actually seen one of those zip sleds out on the lake. My kids both started out in the tube, but lost interest once they learned to ski. Tubing was a reasonable way for the kids to get used being behind the boat, with the wind in their face and the water splashing their faces...all with the requisite large grin.

I think that the kids who stick with tubing, are not offered much in the way of skiing and instruction by their parents.

My two are addicted to skiing now. :D

Hmmm...I wonder how many kids are "offered" piano lessons, and how many stick with it into adulthood?

I agree that tubing is a good way to get kids out on the water. As to not being offered much in the way of skiing and instruction, I disagree. Some kids are just interested in skiing and some are not. And, sorry to tell you, I suspect that a lot of those kids that are skiing now are going to give up skiing soon and go to wakeboarding.

NatesGr8
11-02-2005, 01:52 PM
Whats wrong with footing off the boom? :confused:
nothing's wrong with it, it's just really funny watching the first timers drop their toes and do cartwheels on top of the water. or watching them lose their drawers and then pulling them past the crowd on the dock/beach :D

erkoehler
11-02-2005, 03:00 PM
Yes, that is true, great fun!

jimmer2880
11-02-2005, 06:52 PM
Mbradey - is that your kite in the background? Do you go up? I've never been in a kite. But - a good friend of mine (who just passed away last winter) had a 'chute that I flew often. I imagine the kite is way more fun for people who enjoy sports where skill is envolved.

mbradey
11-03-2005, 07:52 AM
Hey Jimmer, the hang glider is my brothers. He flies it regularly in the summer. I am only the driver and my father is the winch man. I have tried a kite many years ago but have not had the time to learn how to fly a hang glider. We had to build a separate boat for it complete with a huge platform and gas winch with 4000 feet of rope. We can get him about 2500 to 3000 feet high before he disconnects, then the challenge is to fire up the winch and try to reel in 4000 feet of rope before the end lands in the water or goes across land.

Kevin 89MC
11-03-2005, 10:20 AM
Hey Jimmer, the hang glider is my brothers. He flies it regularly in the summer. I am only the driver and my father is the winch man. I have tried a kite many years ago but have not had the time to learn how to fly a hang glider. We had to build a separate boat for it complete with a huge platform and gas winch with 4000 feet of rope. We can get him about 2500 to 3000 feet high before he disconnects, then the challenge is to fire up the winch and try to reel in 4000 feet of rope before the end lands in the water or goes across land.
Holy crap, that sounds like a lot of fun, in a dangerous way! Do you have any pics or video?? I'd be afraid of hitting stuff, as either the flyer, driver, or cable guy! :eek3:

Footin
11-03-2005, 10:41 AM
The kite does look like fun. I have a parasail I got used a few years ago, I never seem to get the chance to use it so I think I am going to sell it.........any interest?

End of threadjack.

mbradey
11-03-2005, 04:51 PM
Holy crap, that sounds like a lot of fun, in a dangerous way! Do you have any pics or video?? I'd be afraid of hitting stuff, as either the flyer, driver, or cable guy! :eek3:

It is a lot of fun but very nerve racking. We have to have a long straight shot across the lake directly into the wind and maintain 20mph wind speed to release then 30mph wind speed with 75 to 100 pounds tension on the rope. All this while not releasing over boats or islands. Once the rope is released and floating down on its own parachute I do a 180 as the winch is fired up and have to keep the boat speed so the rope is reeling in with a nice arc but not dipping into the water. I usually keep the rope coming at me just to the right of the windshield as its coming it at about 35mph if it touches anything it would not be good. Sorry I have no pics as I'm always driving. Next year I will try to get some as they would be fun to post here.

mbradey
11-03-2005, 04:52 PM
The kite does look like fun. I have a parasail I got used a few years ago, I never seem to get the chance to use it so I think I am going to sell it.........any interest?

End of threadjack.

Sorry Footin we have enough water sports already. Plans for next year include a portable course....

jimmer2880
11-03-2005, 07:15 PM
Wow... that sounds like a lot to worry about with the Kite.

The old timers around here had built a couple of their own back in the 60's. But - they only used 200' of rope & not sure they ever released unless for safety reasons.

M-Funf
11-03-2005, 07:18 PM
It is a lot of fun but very nerve racking. We have to have a long straight shot across the lake directly into the wind and maintain 20mph wind speed to release then 30mph wind speed with 75 to 100 pounds tension on the rope. All this while not releasing over boats or islands. Once the rope is released and floating down on its own parachute I do a 180 as the winch is fired up and have to keep the boat speed so the rope is reeling in with a nice arc but not dipping into the water. I usually keep the rope coming at me just to the right of the windshield as its coming it at about 35mph if it touches anything it would not be good. Sorry I have no pics as I'm always driving. Next year I will try to get some as they would be fun to post here.

So, can you communicate with the pilot when he's up at 2k-3k feet, or is it just that he knows what you're going to do, and you know what he's going to do???

erkoehler
11-03-2005, 07:30 PM
That sounds crazy, they used to do that in one of the ski shows up by our cabin, but they had to stop for insurance purposes.

AHudgins
11-03-2005, 08:00 PM
I hate to pull the tubes, but I will when the kids bring along friends who don't want to learn to ski. I have a 16 year old who has given up the wakeboarding the dating life. My twelve year old always wants to tube when he brings a few friends along. And as mentioned, the more time he spends tubing, the worse his skiing skills become. I would much rather spend an hour teaching a kid to ski for the first time, than pull a tube for 15 minutes. I just like seeing a kid get the feeling of accomplishment when they ski for the first time.

I have a Maristar 200 V-drive so my pylon is mounted behind the rear seat. So until I decide to put a tower on the boat, all the ropes go on the pylon. The boat doesn't handle any different.

mbradey
11-03-2005, 09:08 PM
So, can you communicate with the pilot when he's up at 2k-3k feet, or is it just that he knows what you're going to do, and you know what he's going to do???

No communication with the flyer once he releases from the boat. But he can see when we run out of lake and he releases the rope. Sometime he waits until we start the winch and turn around if he wants more height and then release when we get part way back to him. We have it down to a science now.

edwinfuqua
08-24-2006, 11:31 PM
Yup, I'll pull a tube...but only when the water is too choppy to ski, and there are NO other skiers around.

I don't have an eye at the center in the back, so I either pull from one of the two rear eyes if there are more than 3 people in the boat, or from the pylon if there are only 2-3 in the boat...
I was wondering if I could use one or both of the eyes above the deck on the back of the 85PS190. You say that is ok to pull from?
Edwin

88 PS190
08-24-2006, 11:35 PM
I don't know about those... is it central or not? I think you're supposed to avoid pulling lift eyes any direction save up or down.

edwinfuqua
08-24-2006, 11:37 PM
You should check out lake Russell at the SC GA line. Closer to the dam the water is slick and lots of space to ski. there is even a course set up close to the dam, about 2 miles away.

Leroy
08-25-2006, 07:20 AM
Yes, the kids love this!

THey will all ski and board, but would rather get beat up on a tube anyday.....

EDIT: Just so you know how easily things can go bad. THe last time out was pulling friend and his son at 22mph (PerfectPass), hit a small wave, the 12 yr old kid went off the side, did not look bad, landed exactly on his left side and popped his eardrum. Absolutely did not look bad, I felt bad as first person ever hurt behind my boat and was amazed at how easily it happened. He has healed up ok now.

H20skeefreek
08-25-2006, 07:48 AM
Edwin,
I tow from them, just get a 20dollar towing bridle from west marine. They great if ever have to tow another boat too.


Leroy,
The first person to ever get hurt behind my boat was getting kicked by his defibrillator. He was flailing around in the water like a fish on the dock. He was yelling "my defibrillator, my defibrillator!" What I heard was "I've been impaled, I've been impaled!" I about crapped my pants. We called the paramedics and headed to shore. I still have boot scratches on my gunnel from the jerk paramedic that was stomping all over my boat with his big sand covered combat boots. The other paramedic was nice enough to take off her boots. But that is a whole other story.

Leroy
01-05-2007, 09:19 PM
Tubing can be fun! However, that is a serious injury need a defib!

H20skeefreek
01-06-2007, 08:09 AM
It was an internal defib, evidently set to go off too low. He had it cranked up so that it takes more to set it off, but believe me, he's not doing anything else behind a boat anymore.

ilikeitglacy
01-06-2007, 09:22 AM
i will pul the kids once in a very long while...oops!! sometimes the wife too...

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-06-2007, 10:41 AM
Erk will pull anything behind a boat if it means a sale8p :D

I once saw him towing some .......oh, wait, that wasnt erk, it was Hoosier bob. ;)

DooSPX
01-06-2007, 10:50 AM
very rarely, but yes...

betsy&david Harrison
01-06-2007, 05:26 PM
We pull the kids and me and da gals when we are drunk!:D Makes for some halarious stories..hint...Bad Betsy

JKTX21
01-06-2007, 05:32 PM
No tubing for me. I make my friends wakeboard if they come on my boat, or at least get them to try. Nothing wrong with tubing, but it'd take up too much boat space and precious weekend time.

dapicatti
01-07-2007, 11:40 AM
Yes, we pull tubes, skis, wakeboards whatever people want. We just inflate the tube when the kids are ready, then deflate and store it under the observers seat and we are back to boarding.

ski_king
01-07-2007, 11:51 AM
The tubes were great when the kids were small. It is a good way to let them get used to being behind the boat.

My tubes now have the duty of holding up the neighbors winter pool cover. Great use for a retired tube.

I do have a newer triangular tube, it has been used only once.

betsy&david Harrison
01-07-2007, 12:32 PM
Have any of you noticed that it is very difficult to find the original donut tubes? If you see one out there PM me because friends of mine want them. B

TMCNo1
01-07-2007, 01:45 PM
The tubes were great when the kids were small. It is a good way to let them get used to being behind the boat.

My tubes now have the duty of holding up the neighbors winter pool cover. Great use for a retired tube.

I do have a newer triangular tube, it has been used only once.


Tubes also make for good supports for the cover in the bow and on the motor cover to hold up the cover to prevent pockets that will hold water, especially for boat that are kept in the water overnight/weekend or for extended periods.

JKTX21
01-07-2007, 01:50 PM
Does anybody still Wego-kite-tube? That is the more pertinent question. Who would have ever thought flying 10 feet off the water going 30mph would be dangerous?
:confused:

88 PS190
01-07-2007, 02:18 PM
How is this thread still going???

Gaviao
01-07-2007, 02:44 PM
Any sport can be dangerous. I just broke my arm snowboarding 2 days ago. Luckly it should be good by the time I can take the boat out again. I never pull more than one person at a time in a tube. I just think that it is a lot safer that way.
Question: I was told that if you pull a tuber from the tower it could get ripped right off the boat. Hwo likely is that to happen?

etakk7
01-07-2007, 09:53 PM
There are quite a few donut style tubes still out there - check out Overtons. The HO Hornet, OBrien LeTube, and Sportsstuff SkiPal come to mind.

Leroy
01-07-2007, 10:08 PM
From way back in 2002 when my boat was new! A double-double on Center Hill Lake TN.

Leroy
01-07-2007, 10:08 PM
From way back in 2002 when my boat was new! A double-double on Center Hill Lake TN.

88 PS190
01-07-2007, 11:36 PM
Any sport can be dangerous. I just broke my arm snowboarding 2 days ago. Luckly it should be good by the time I can take the boat out again. I never pull more than one person at a time in a tube. I just think that it is a lot safer that way.
Question: I was told that if you pull a tuber from the tower it could get ripped right off the boat. How likely is that to happen?


Not too sure about overall tower strength.

Its no question that a wakeboarder produces less drag than a slalom skier, or tube when the tube is settled in the water or slack just speed and surface area. but I cannot see ripping a tower off...

We pulled 2X2 (two tubes, 2 people on each for a total of four) for years behind a chris craft I/O and its tow bar is held on by a bolt at each end into a 1" square aluminum plate.

No issues.

Perhaps with towers the issue would be angle of load. but not certain.

etakk7
01-07-2007, 11:51 PM
I have heard from numerous places that towing adult tubers from a tower has lead to stress fractures in the gel coat or fractures on the tower welds - so I never take the chance.

Mikey
01-08-2007, 03:33 PM
I have heard from numerous places that towing adult tubers from a tower has lead to stress fractures in the gel coat or fractures on the tower welds - so I never take the chance.

:eek: I sure hope not. I pulled a tube from my tower all summer and no problems but I never even thought about it being a problem. I may reconsider that idea now that it has been brought to my attention.

Evan Jones
01-08-2007, 04:17 PM
Does anybody still Wego-kite-tube? That is the more pertinent question. Who would have ever thought flying 10 feet off the water going 30mph would be dangerous?
:confused:

Mine is deflated in the barn ready for spring. And try 40+ mph. We couldn't get any sustained flight until we hit 40 mph. 45 with no wind was perfect. Only some bruises and a broken toe so far.

atlfootr
01-14-2007, 12:26 PM
The dog likes it...Mine really likes it ... this is as good as it get's!