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strad
01-06-2014, 08:52 PM
84 PCM 351. It was acting like it had a bad battery (needed to be jumped, but fired right up), so I took the battery of unknown age out and got a new one. I elected to replace it because I know for a fact that it has been run flat several times, and I don't know how old it is. The new one is a Marine cranking battery, group 24, 550 CCA. It is fully charged. The starter still spins the engine slower than it is supposed to and the boat won't fire. I'm almost 100% sure it will fire if I jump it with my Tahoe, since it did earlier this afternoon before I replaced the battery, but I haven't actually tried it again.

I removed the starter and inspected the ring gear all the way around, because the starter was sounding "different." The ring gear is visually fine, as is the bendix. I also obviously turned the engine over by hand with a wrench, and it has compression and turns over fine. I don't know how old my starter is, but judging by appearances it is younger than the boat. It is a marine starter, a single wire version. I plan to take it down and have it tested, but beyond a visual inspection of main grounds and inspection/cleaning of battery clamps and other connections (which I haven't done yet), I don't know where else to look.

cbryan70
01-06-2014, 09:02 PM
Battery cables may be shot.

supreme112279
01-06-2014, 09:13 PM
Put power directly to starter with a good set up jumper cables which would tell you if it's a starter or something else

occva
01-06-2014, 09:17 PM
Battery cables may be shot. +1 Check the resistance of your battery leads.

atihanyi
01-06-2014, 09:32 PM
+2 on checking battery leads

mikeg205
01-06-2014, 09:34 PM
take out starter take to autozone for load test. Plus a 650 cca battery is usually what should be installed in IMO.

What is voltage at starter when cranking? Also check alternator rectifier - old is always a good source of battery drain.

what was old battery CCA?

Cloaked
01-06-2014, 09:51 PM
Regardless of the remedy of cables etc, you can't go wrong with a new permanent magnet starter for a fresh baseline of that component. Makes a world of difference.
www.skidim.com

$.02

.

strad
01-06-2014, 09:52 PM
Old was 800. Alt is original. Looks like it anyways. Haven't had a chance to test it at higher engine speed but at idle it was doing 13 volts. I'm used to 14 at idle with cars. I haven't checked voltage at starter while cranking. Starter is out so I'll have it tested next.

JimN
01-06-2014, 10:02 PM
84 PCM 351. It was acting like it had a bad battery (needed to be jumped, but fired right up), so I took the battery of unknown age out and got a new one. I elected to replace it because I know for a fact that it has been run flat several times, and I don't know how old it is. The new one is a Marine cranking battery, group 24, 550 CCA. It is fully charged. The starter still spins the engine slower than it is supposed to and the boat won't fire. I'm almost 100% sure it will fire if I jump it with my Tahoe, since it did earlier this afternoon before I replaced the battery, but I haven't actually tried it again.

I removed the starter and inspected the ring gear all the way around, because the starter was sounding "different." The ring gear is visually fine, as is the bendix. I also obviously turned the engine over by hand with a wrench, and it has compression and turns over fine. I don't know how old my starter is, but judging by appearances it is younger than the boat. It is a marine starter, a single wire version. I plan to take it down and have it tested, but beyond a visual inspection of main grounds and inspection/cleaning of battery clamps and other connections (which I haven't done yet), I don't know where else to look.

Clean the mating surfaces for the starter- that's where it gets its ground. Along with that, check/clean the spot on the engine where the ground cable is bolted on. If the cable feels stiffer at the end, check the end at the battery- if it's stiffer at the ends than in the middle, replace it. Stiffness indicates corrosion or damage from excessive heat due to cranking for too long when the battery is almost dead. Make sure the positive cable is clean and tight, too.

strad
01-07-2014, 01:29 PM
Well part of the problem is definitely the starter. It popped the breaker on the test bench! So I got a re manufactured one. I also took all the big pos and neg connections apart and cleaned them up with a wire brush. They actually looked mostly ok. Now I'll put the new starter in and see what happens.

Edit. Got home, installed it, connected the battery, turned the key, and she fired right up! Now to deal with the alternator.

Cloaked
01-07-2014, 08:07 PM
Well part of the problem is definitely the starter. It popped the breaker on the test bench! So I got a re manufactured one. I also took all the big pos and neg connections apart and cleaned them up with a wire brush. They actually looked mostly ok. Now I'll put the new starter in and see what happens.

Edit. Got home, installed it, connected the battery, turned the key, and she fired right up! Now to deal with the alternator.Marine application starter?

mikeg205
01-07-2014, 09:26 PM
Marine application starter?

extremely important unless you hope for .....

strad
01-07-2014, 11:40 PM
Marine application starter?


Yes. Well the solenoid has a big metal cover over it with a gasket sealing it from the outside world, and the electrical connections are exactly like the old one. In fact the whole thing is exactly like the old one.

mikeg205
01-07-2014, 11:41 PM
Yes. Well the solenoid has a big metal cover over it with a gasket sealing it from the outside world, and the electrical connections are exactly like the old one. In fact the whole thing is exactly like the old one.

awesome!

JimN
01-08-2014, 12:15 AM
Yes. Well the solenoid has a big metal cover over it with a gasket sealing it from the outside world, and the electrical connections are exactly like the old one. In fact the whole thing is exactly like the old one.

Might want to call about this- it's not the solenoid and connectors, it's the ability to suppress spark.

strad
01-09-2014, 04:33 PM
Might want to call about this- it's not the solenoid and connectors, it's the ability to suppress spark.

Ok, I'm sure the thing is the same as the old one, but not sure if the old one was for marine use or not. I'm leaning towards not now that I know more about it. It doesn't say SAE Marine on it for one thing, and starters pictured off a 79 Ford pickup with 351 look the same as the one in the boat. So that is on hold at the moment

I would like some opinions on the alternator though. This is a Prestolite alternator -- it started out life as a marine alternator, so it's probably ok. It has been rebuilt once, in 1997 according to info on the alternator. And I had it tested and it does work the way it's supposed to. What I'm concerned about is what the yellow/orange sticker says. "Ignition protected. Danger. Vapor ignition source cover and gasket must be secured in place when operating." I don't know what they are referring to. What you see in the picture is how it was installed in the boat. Am I missing something or am I good?

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz212/mgheffner/alternator1_zps8ccc56b2.jpg (http://s829.photobucket.com/user/mgheffner/media/alternator1_zps8ccc56b2.jpg.html)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-09-2014, 11:09 PM
Alternator looks complete to me...

JimN
01-09-2014, 11:45 PM
Ok, I'm sure the thing is the same as the old one, but not sure if the old one was for marine use or not. I'm leaning towards not now that I know more about it. It doesn't say SAE Marine on it for one thing, and starters pictured off a 79 Ford pickup with 351 look the same as the one in the boat. So that is on hold at the moment

I would like some opinions on the alternator though. This is a Prestolite alternator -- it started out life as a marine alternator, so it's probably ok. It has been rebuilt once, in 1997 according to info on the alternator. And I had it tested and it does work the way it's supposed to. What I'm concerned about is what the yellow/orange sticker says. "Ignition protected. Danger. Vapor ignition source cover and gasket must be secured in place when operating." I don't know what they are referring to. What you see in the picture is how it was installed in the boat. Am I missing something or am I good?

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz212/mgheffner/alternator1_zps8ccc56b2.jpg (http://s829.photobucket.com/user/mgheffner/media/alternator1_zps8ccc56b2.jpg.html)

The "Ignition protected" stuff is exactly what you want to see and it's what makes it suitable for marine use.

strad
01-10-2014, 12:08 AM
Ok that's good. I've seen a lot of marine alternators that have spark arrestor screens within the vents into the body, and this one does not have that. But neither does the follow on mr2051fa (this one is mr2051f). So I guess it's ok. Blowing up is not real high on my list of things to do lol.