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Footin
12-31-2013, 05:29 PM
I am starting to map out my custom ballast system I will be installing in my 2007 Maristar 200VRS.

I will be installing 3 pumps feed from 3 thru hull pick ups (drain and fill below water line) with the X2 bow sac and TBD sized sac in the rear lockers. I have not decided on rear sac as of yet. I have a lot of room because there are not ballast tanks now so it will be 455, 600, 720 OR 750'S. I am looking forward to drilling 6 holes in my new toy.

THE FIRST BIG QUESTION ???????

As I was looking at different wiring options and I came across this:http://greatlakesskipper.com/mastercraft-230-boat-ballast-kit-w-gauges-2006#

I think this would give me all I need, the switches (gauges will not work with bags) harness to the fuse panel, relays, harness to switches and harness to pumps...AM I CORRECT????

CantRepeat
01-02-2014, 06:26 AM
That's a great way to start. To me, it looks like the only thing that is missing this the connecter at the end of the pump run. It's just a dual pin deutsch connector.

You would need 3 of these to make the pig tail that would run to the pump.

http://www.deutschconnector.com/products/deutsch_connectors/deutsch_dt_series_connectors/deutsch_dt_2-way_connectors/DT04-2P-Assy/

I would think you could just zip tie up the gauge pig tails behind the side panel. Of course, as you said, they will not work.

The big issue with this knowing the difference change years. 06 and newer will be relays and the 07 and later will be timers, which you do not want in your case.

Good luck with your up grade.

You might find this post useful.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=52192

CantRepeat
01-02-2014, 06:46 AM
I can't tel if that kit comes with the this cable or not.

http://greatlakesskipper.com/mastercraft-241-03270-h-30-foot-boat-ballast-harness

It looks like the one that might run from the relays to the switch panel.

Looking at your linked kit it does appear to that cable.

bturner2
01-02-2014, 09:35 AM
Last summer they had the same kits without the gauges which in your case would have been even better but this looks like a great solution for you.

To be truthful my gauges are not accurate at all and are a very general indication of water level. They rarely show empty if they've been filled that day and the true indication of full is when you hear the water coming out of the overflow.

Footin
01-02-2014, 09:44 AM
I still might just drill my current plate and install 3 of the toggle switches: http://www.waterskis.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=19394

Then run 12 or 14 gauge wire back to the pumps and 3 separate fuses power wires to the main hot terminal without using relays.

This would be much less expensive and not very difficult.

CantRepeat
01-03-2014, 02:02 AM
Then get some.

bturner2
01-03-2014, 11:52 AM
Going direct is certainly an option but as you state you should be fusing each circuit. The reason for going with relays is for a low current to control a much larger current path. When you start adding up the cost for tinned wire, switches, circuit breakers and connectors that $230 may start looking cheap let alone the time to lay it all out.

I am on board with using the existing panel and forgoing the non functional gauges but I'd probably just pull them out of the supplied panel in that kit.

bturner2
01-03-2014, 11:56 AM
Another thought is that a lot of the boats started coming pre wired for all the options. The power and breakers may already be in the panel and a connector sitting there. You may be able to tap into this or if you go with the kit just plug it in.

Rossterman
01-03-2014, 01:22 PM
I was able to find a factory loom on ebay and this turned out much cheaper then trying to build my own for my ballast project. As stated by others, the connectors can be purchased to complete a factory looking install. Our 2001 didn't have any existing wiring but the harness had connection points that were correct length to connect to power blocks under the dash. The looms appear to be very well made and have a very heavy corrugated cover to prevent wear.

Footin
01-03-2014, 07:44 PM
I am still thinking about ordering the kit, I just wish I could tell if it comes with everything I need.

I have never wired with relays before, does it lay out like this: main hot lug behind dash panel to black relay breaker box to switches to pumps?

If I knew the kit was complete, I would order it.

Here are some better pictures from ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MASTERCRAFT-230-BOAT-BALLAST-KIT-W-GAUGES-2006-/200681926955?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2eb993312b&vxp=mtr


I am not sure on this one.

rgardjr1
01-03-2014, 08:19 PM
I am still thinking about ordering the kit, I just wish I could tell if it comes with everything I need.

I have never wired with relays before, does it lay out like this: main hot lug behind dash panel to black relay breaker box to switches to pumps?

If I knew the kit was complete, I would order it.

Here are some better pictures from ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MASTERCRAFT-230-BOAT-BALLAST-KIT-W-GAUGES-2006-/200681926955?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2eb993312b&vxp=mtr


I am not sure on this one.

That kit looks pretty complete. As mentioned earlier it looks like you'd need the Duetsch connectors on the pumps, but the wiring is there. The EBay link shows that it's for a 2006 so you won't have to deal with the timers. From what I remember that black box holds the relays and breakers and sits below the rear port seat. You can see the red wire with the eye connector that runs to the positive side battery. Should be pretty straight forward to install. I believe you'll just need to run the wiring harness from the switches to black breaker box and plug it in to both. Hook up the power to the breaker box and that side should be ready. Then mount the pumps, install the intakes, run hoses and bags and your good.

CantRepeat
01-03-2014, 10:36 PM
Knowing what I know now if I were going to add pumps to an MC that didn't have them I would for sure buy that kit you linked to.

Carling switches from the dealer are $25 each. The relays are $10x6 each and that doesn't include the connector, pins, locks, rubber grommets or wire. The circut breakers are $12x3 each.

Buying that kit will let your do it the right way.

If you have specific questions when you go to do the install I'd be more then happy to trace down the leads on my system and help you out.

The last thing you want to do is create a wiring hazard on your boat.

Not sure if you ever looked into my thread but the first post outlines what is need to add a single pump.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=40934

With that kit you get 3 pumps wired the right way.

rgardjr1
01-03-2014, 11:34 PM
Knowing what I know now if I were going to add pumps to an MC that didn't have them I would for sure buy that kit you linked to.

I totally agree cheaper and it will save time. I've got a 2006 that I can take pictures of too to help out. I need to replace a relay on mine this winter so I'll be pulling out the breaker box at some point this winter.

bturner2
01-04-2014, 07:32 AM
What they said..... At the price they're asking I was considering buying a box from them just to have the spares.

Another plus is that you'll have a factory designed, factory looking system. When I do modifications to my boat I research how it looks on the boat if it was to come from the factory and do them to the factory standards with a factory look and feel. In many cases (such as my dual battery installation) I actually surpass the factory standard but keep the factory look. I don't do anything to my boat that does not look like it didn't come that way from the factory. I want top dollar for my boats when I sell them and this method of adding options has worked well for me over the years.

IMO there's nothing worse for resale than a boat that's been modified poorly. Not saying you'd do a bad job but the lack of wire guard, black tape and splices instead of Duetsch connectors is going to scream backyard update.

CantRepeat
01-04-2014, 10:15 AM
Funny, at their online store the kit is $225 but on their ebay listing its $275.

Footin
01-04-2014, 10:17 AM
Funny, at their online store the kit is $225 but on their ebay listing its $275.

I noticed that!

I agree with you, I will probably order this kit when I am ready to install.

Now to decide on the size of the rear locker sacs.

Rossterman
01-04-2014, 11:57 AM
I noticed that!

I agree with you, I will probably order this kit when I am ready to install.

Now to decide on the size of the rear locker sacs.

This is leftover old mfg stock so would suggest buying now as Great Lakes probably only has 1 and when it's gone it's gone. They had other looms for other models which are now no longer available. I waited a few days before buying the loom I needed and it was bought by someone else. Just got lucky a few months later and found one on ebay. Jump quick or you will probably miss out on this.

Footin
01-04-2014, 07:03 PM
Ok, next question: I plan on using 3/4 tube to 3 ballast pumps. I am debating if I should have a dedicated thru hull fill/drain for each pump OR if the two rear sacs could share a thru hull? (by using a T fitting after the ball valve)

Most of the time I will only be filling one sac in the rear and the bow (surfing) so by plumbing the two rears to the same thru hull it would save a hole in my boat. The front sac would still have its own thru hull.

Thoughts????

Rossterman
01-04-2014, 07:11 PM
I would plumb. 3 pumps and a dedicated thru hull for each. Use 1" fittings and hose to increase fill rates. Drilling the holes using the magnet method takes 100% of the guesswork and chance of error over measuring. Once I finished drilling the first one, the next 5 were a piece of cake( I used checks and thru hull vents to discharge water overboard which aids in determining when bags are full or empty)

Footin
01-04-2014, 07:21 PM
I am going to use 3/4 and fill and drain below the waterline. The 3/4 bends easier and will be a neater install. I don't mind if the fill rate takes a little longer.

As far as drilling, I don't mind drilling the hole, just looking at the room and saving a few bucks if possible.

bturner2
01-04-2014, 09:09 PM
Stock set up uses the same fitting for both rear pumps. That's how I would do it.

I am thinking about the crossover pump configuration that wake makers offers. Pumps from tank to tank so you don't have to drain/fill when changing sides for surfing.

potsie
01-04-2014, 09:28 PM
Footin I'm a nobody in this team talk world but , I will put my two cents in on this one. Three years ago I spent all kinds of time looking to add more ballast to my X15, I talked to Mastercraft,(Bill somebody) he tells me get ahold of Mary Kate at Wake Worx or www.supersacr.com her husband is some engineer at Mastercraft and he has put together a very nice package, you can pick whatever size bags you wish, they use the same Jebsco pumps (so no extra parts) wires right in, switches are super, all fused complete and did not have to chase any extra part, as a matter of fact lots of extra screws, clamps, holders.
Now I did have to add a little wire length as I put the switches right on the dash, and put the pumps in the engine compartment.
This girl was perfect to deal with NO stress at all. And NO stress rules…….need to be boating

CantRepeat
01-04-2014, 10:17 PM
I am going to use 3/4 and fill and drain below the waterline. The 3/4 bends easier and will be a neater install. I don't mind if the fill rate takes a little longer.

As far as drilling, I don't mind drilling the hole, just looking at the room and saving a few bucks if possible.

I see no benefit with going with 3/4 inch hose, 1 inch will bend just as easy. The fact is the Jabsco pumps have a 1 inch inlet so running 1 inch hose reduces the amount of fittings need to plump from the through hull provided you use 1 inch hardware for your through hulls.

You are going to need to run vent lines off the top of the sacks for sure. The added 4th pump in my system that is dedicated for filling the surf sack fills and drains out the bottom. The only added issue with draining out the bottom is you need to watch and make sure you don't run the pump dry. That said, I would rather all my pumps drain out the bottom but the factory stuff doesn't.

I don't know how much the 1 inch increases the flow rate over 3/4 but I can tell you this. While you might think the fill time wont matter, and it wont at first, after a full season of filling and draining you will want to reduce that time as much as you can. I don't know if the time will double but it will be close and I can tell you waiting 20 or 30 minutes to fill or drain is just a pain!!!

Call Jason at wakemakers.com and talk to him about options. Those guys are 1st rate.

Rossterman
01-05-2014, 03:10 PM
.875 sq. inches cross sectional area with 1" vs. .441 with 3/4. 1" is a no brainer as almost twice the area. I used 1" and it wasn't that hard to install. Price difference is virtually nil.

Footin
01-05-2014, 05:17 PM
If I go with the 1", I will make one 1" thru hull feed both back pumps. I think I could still feed them to the point that one could be emptying and one filling at the same time or fill both at the same time.

Then use the other thru hull for the bow sac.

I will probably changer my mind 10 times before I place my order with Wakemakers.

I still cannot decide on the size of the rear sacs, I think it will be 750's even though I will not be able to completely fill them out. The 750 should surf better than the 455 and I do have close to enough room.

If I cant decide what to do, I do have 2 600 lb round sac and a manual pump I could run for this summer and see how it does????

CantRepeat
01-05-2014, 06:02 PM
If I go with the 1", I will make one 1" thru hull feed both back pumps. I think I could still feed them to the point that one could be emptying and one filling at the same time or fill both at the same time.

Then use the other thru hull for the bow sac.

I will probably changer my mind 10 times before I place my order with Wakemakers.

I still cannot decide on the size of the rear sacs, I think it will be 750's even though I will not be able to completely fill them out. The 750 should surf better than the 455 and I do have close to enough room.

If I cant decide what to do, I do have 2 600 lb round sac and a manual pump I could run for this summer and see how it does????


You probably wont be able to empty and fill at the same time from a Teed through hull. It seems very counter productive.

Footin
01-05-2014, 06:06 PM
You probably wont be able to empty and fill at the same time from a Teed through hull. It seems very counter productive.

To clarify, empty the port tank while filling the starboard tank to surf the other side.

I guess it work as a transfer pump.

bturner2
01-05-2014, 08:22 PM
Actually that seems to work very well on my boat when switching sides for surfing. The one pump pushes, the other pulls.

CantRepeat
01-05-2014, 08:29 PM
Actually that seems to work very well on my boat when switching sides for surfing. The one pump pushes, the other pulls.


What I've seen done is adding a pump that has a line going between the two rear sacs. So it doesn't pull from the lake but will pump from one sack to the other. That combined with the fill pump cuts the time in half when going from side to side.

Footin
01-06-2014, 06:40 PM
Ok, I am going with one of the 1" hull fittings to feed the rears sacs, should I use a "Y" after the ball valve or a "T" against the transom before the pumps? It probably doesn't really matter, but I though the Y would be more efficient to drain and fill.
I will use 1" hose now that I know it can be connected directly to the pumps with no fittings, just clamps.

I am probably over thinking this.

bturner2
01-06-2014, 07:51 PM
The fitting that splits the lines on mine are on the through hull.

CantRepeat
01-06-2014, 11:21 PM
Ok, I am going with one of the 1" hull fittings to feed the rears sacs, should I use a "Y" after the ball valve or a "T" against the transom before the pumps? It probably doesn't really matter, but I though the Y would be more efficient to drain and fill.
I will use 1" hose now that I know it can be connected directly to the pumps with no fittings, just clamps.

I am probably over thinking this.

Call Jason at wakemakers. Talk to the guys that do this all the time. They will not try to upsale you one bit.

scott023
01-06-2014, 11:23 PM
Call Jason at wakemakers. Talk to the guys that do this all the time. They will not try to upsale you one bit.

Just worked with Spencer there today. Built me a custom set up to save me a lot of cash over the kits they offer on the site. Great guy.

CantRepeat
01-06-2014, 11:40 PM
Just worked with Spencer there today. Built me a custom set up to save me a lot of cash over the kits they offer on the site. Great guy.

Both of them, Jason and Spencer are top notch!!

No up sales, no bullstuff, just straight up knowledge and a big desire to make people happy and make boats work the best they can, tabs be damned!!! lol

scott023
01-06-2014, 11:55 PM
Both of them, Jason and Spencer are top notch!!

No up sales, no bullstuff, just straight up knowledge and a big desire to make people happy and make boats work the best they can, tabs be damned!!! lol

Agree 100%. Placed my first two orders with them in the last week (worked with Jason last week), and couldn't be more impressed. Will certainly deal with them in the future.

TN X-45
01-07-2014, 09:14 AM
What did you go with Scott023?

Footin
01-12-2014, 04:48 PM
Took out the engine dividers to have a look and realized I have quite a bit of room for the thru hulls, I am going with 3 thru hulls (one for each pump) and 1 inch hoses.

I will probably order all the hardware next week and start the install.

Who wants to come over and help drill????

MattsCraft
01-13-2014, 10:26 AM
If I go with the 1", I will make one 1" thru hull feed both back pumps. I think I could still feed them to the point that one could be emptying and one filling at the same time or fill both at the same time.

Then use the other thru hull for the bow sac.

I will probably changer my mind 10 times before I place my order with Wakemakers.

I still cannot decide on the size of the rear sacs, I think it will be 750's even though I will not be able to completely fill them out. The 750 should surf better than the 455 and I do have close to enough room.

If I cant decide what to do, I do have 2 600 lb round sac and a manual pump I could run for this summer and see how it does????

750's are way to big for the rear X2 lockers and really not needed IMO. I had X2 specific 455's on mine, with 2 or 3 decent sized people on the surf side, you can almost dip the rub rail. Of course you don't have stock ballast, but they are only 150 lbs each anyway. 600's might be a better option.

Footin
01-13-2014, 07:51 PM
750's are way to big for the rear X2 lockers and really not needed IMO. I had X2 specific 455's on mine, with 2 or 3 decent sized people on the surf side, you can almost dip the rub rail. Of course you don't have stock ballast, but they are only 150 lbs each anyway. 600's might be a better option.

The 750's are the same width, height and price as the 600's, and I have plenty of room length wise so I thought the 750's were a better choice????
We usually go out with me, my wife and 2 kids so I thought I would need the extra since I wont have "2 legged ballast" :D

MattsCraft
01-14-2014, 10:47 AM
Hmmm - Not sure, since you don't have stock hard tanks, kinda throughs me off a bit. I can tell you the X2 does like a 60/40 relationship, rear/front. What are you doing for KGB/forward ballast?

My set up was this:

rears - Stock 150 + 450 bag - 600lbs each side - 1200 total

KGB - 250 stock + 350 in walkway - plus a body in the bow @175 - 775 total

approx 65-35 weight differential

All full the WB wake was about as good as you could get for an X2 - 70' line length max and about 21-22 mph

For surf, only dif was one rear side empty and bodies on the surf side. If we only had 3 people, the 350 would be moved on top of the surf side seat and keeping the KGB full.

Footin
01-14-2014, 05:45 PM
I plan on 750's in the rear and the 690 bow sac in the front.

Wife will drive so that only leaves two kids totaling 250 pounds to move around.

Footin
01-14-2014, 07:37 PM
Also: deciding on pumps. Johnson are a less expensive but Jabsco come with green impellers.

Anyone know of the best deal for 3 pumps?

93Prostar190
01-14-2014, 09:32 PM
Cannot wait to se the boat!

Footin
01-14-2014, 09:33 PM
Cannot wait to se the boat!

You get to help drill the holes!!!!!

blflak
01-14-2014, 09:59 PM
yea im looking to do the same for my 08 X-Star.

I have a rocker or flip switch (heat fan switch [NO NEED IN FLORIDA]) which I want to control the 2 pumps im going to be putting in. I have elected to go with the 720lb fly high bags which are made specifically for the x-star model.

these guys are spot on, the people over at wakemakers are top tier!

Footin
01-20-2014, 06:04 PM
I am starting to map out my custom ballast system I will be installing in my 2007 Maristar 200VRS.

I will be installing 3 pumps feed from 3 thru hull pick ups (drain and fill below water line) with the X2 bow sac and TBD sized sac in the rear lockers. I have not decided on rear sac as of yet. I have a lot of room because there are not ballast tanks now so it will be 455, 600, 720 OR 750'S. I am looking forward to drilling 6 holes in my new toy.

THE FIRST BIG QUESTION ???????

As I was looking at different wiring options and I came across this:http://greatlakesskipper.com/mastercraft-230-boat-ballast-kit-w-gauges-2006#

I think this would give me all I need, the switches (gauges will not work with bags) harness to the fuse panel, relays, harness to switches and harness to pumps...AM I CORRECT????

Ordered this today, Wakemakers order will go in next week.

I will start a new thread with pictures of the install.....maybe.

Footin
01-26-2014, 04:03 PM
I have received the panel and harness and have now started to lay out the wiring. I am going to mount the relay box in front of the breaker panel under the helm (behind the bow seat).
I have to make the harness for the pumps that will run from the relay's

Question: The short pig tails that start back to the pumps out of the relay box are 14 gauge wire and the pumps have 14 gauge wire pigtails, will that be heavy enough or should I connect 12 gauge to the existing pigtails?

I plan on soldering on the connecters below close to the relay box and another set at the pumps.

The reason for the connectors close to the relays is if I ever have a relay problem, I can switch the wires and run a pump from a different relay. The connector at the pumps will be better than a butt connect I think.

Thoughts?????

Footin
01-26-2014, 10:18 PM
OK, another stupid question: wire the relay box to the hot behind the dash or directly to the battery? Or does it matter?

tr6coug
01-27-2014, 03:01 AM
Thats not a stupid question. The timer box in my boat is wired directly to the battery. If your relay box has circuit breakers, then I'd run the relay box directly from the battery.

CantRepeat
01-27-2014, 10:37 AM
Mine go to the battery.