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tylerk
12-19-2013, 02:17 PM
January

scott023
12-19-2013, 02:26 PM
Looks pretty darn good. I don't need to ability to swtich on the fly like that, but it's still cool.

Aric'sX15
12-19-2013, 02:31 PM
Someone upload the video. I dont do gaybook!

scott023
12-19-2013, 02:31 PM
Someone upload the video. I dont do gaybook!

I don't either. I just clicked on the link and it opened.

tylerk
12-19-2013, 02:36 PM
january

ttu
12-19-2013, 02:38 PM
^^ those all show private!

lashburn1
12-19-2013, 02:41 PM
Ok, Im impressed. The conditions did not even look good but the wake was still nice.
did not see X30 video yet...they said they have one?

jason95gt
12-19-2013, 02:45 PM
Here is a X-30, http://youtu.be/0eqehVd0NuA

tylerk
12-19-2013, 02:47 PM
changed to public

tylerk
12-19-2013, 02:57 PM
january

willyt
12-19-2013, 03:34 PM
There's been no official announcement from MC about it, pricing, retrofit, etc all are in question. As a dealer, should you really be letting the cat out of the bag like this?

jason95gt
12-19-2013, 03:37 PM
We have pricing on the system for a new 2014 along with retrofitting to a 2014 that already had surf tabs. Everything is good on posting this. Just keep your eyes open for an all new video January 2nd.

wakecumberland
12-19-2013, 03:40 PM
^ Wow. So on this forum, if a person knows info about a new product and wont tell us, said person is a jerk. But if that person does tell us something he is also a jerk. I guess you can't please everyone :rolleyes:

lashburn1
12-19-2013, 03:44 PM
I like all the bits and pieces of info I can get, once again these are not Soviet era secrets were exchanging here

scott023
12-19-2013, 04:01 PM
^ Wow. So on this forum, if a person knows info about a new product and wont tell us, said person is a jerk. But if that person does tell us something he is also a jerk. I guess you can't please everyone :rolleyes:

I think it just seems odd that so much secrecy has surrounded this system, but the first video comes from someones cell camera. You would think that MC would be making it official before the dealers released this type of material. :twocents:

ripcurl74
12-19-2013, 04:20 PM
We have pricing on the system for a new 2014 along with retrofitting to a 2014 that already had surf tabs. Everything is good on posting this. Just keep your eyes open for an all new video January 2nd.

I'm hoping that all this hype isn't just over being able to switch sides on the fly.....nice feature for sure,..... but I would prefer for it to be about a better shaped wake and BIGGER one as well! :cool:

Specter
12-19-2013, 04:20 PM
Ballast was full. No need to fill or empty side tanks to flip the surf wake!

This is the biggest advantage of the new system. Unless you want to go big, no need for bags or pumps any longer.

Morety
12-19-2013, 04:36 PM
No pumps for a wake that size that can change for goofy vs. regular riders at a flip of a switch is looking good to me!

wallnut21
12-19-2013, 04:43 PM
When you say 'Ballast was full' do you mean the additional ballast that comes with the Surf Package was also full or just standard ballast?

lashburn1
12-19-2013, 04:45 PM
No pumps for a wake that size that can change for goofy vs. regular riders at a flip of a switch is looking good to me!

That is not true, you not only need the original ballast completely full, but they also had two additional bags and pumps to wait the boat down.

In other words you do need a lot of ballast, but the tabs to all the shifting and shaping for you

willyt
12-19-2013, 04:50 PM
I'm not calling anyone a jerk - I'm questioning MC's release strategy on this one. This seems like it should be a fairly large announcement accompanied by videos such as the mission: series

bjames
12-19-2013, 05:13 PM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

lashburn1
12-19-2013, 05:27 PM
I'm not calling anyone a jerk - I'm questioning MC's release strategy on this one. This seems like it should be a fairly large announcement accompanied by videos such as the mission: series


Nothing wrong with some pre-release scratchy iPhone footage to gather extra height and interest.
On January 2, they will release a proper video with some better angles and great riders doing aerials etc.

dt37803
12-19-2013, 07:25 PM
video was removed ????

Aric'sX15
12-19-2013, 07:34 PM
Im guessing they got in trouble! Lol

lashburn1
12-19-2013, 08:10 PM
:dance: Well glad I got to see it, :D

For those of you did not...It looks like a well sacked out boat that someone spent some time dialing in..... MASTERCRAFT
:banana:

willyt
12-19-2013, 09:31 PM
huh... guess they really shouldnt have let the cat out of the bag, nice move, nice move.

faith in releases restored.

CantRepeat
12-19-2013, 09:38 PM
This is the biggest advantage of the new system. Unless you want to go big, no need for bags or pumps any longer.

That boat definitely had some bags and pumps in it.

Guys, this is no magical wave maker. The tabs will not add size to your wake/wave. That lone video doesn't show some massive super great wave.

Tabs are an $1800 waste of your money. Sure if you want to have an ok wave and be able to switch from an ok port wave to a less then ok starboard wave then spend that money. You would be far better off spending that $1800 bucks on a custom bag setup from wakemakers.

scott023
12-19-2013, 10:20 PM
huh... guess they really shouldnt have let the cat out of the bag, nice move, nice move.

faith in releases restored.

I guess we were right..

lashburn1
12-19-2013, 11:24 PM
I guess we were right..

Saw everything I needed to see.

Tristarboarder
12-20-2013, 12:17 AM
Missed it, pisser.....all I read was "January", "January".....oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait 2 weeks

spenchey
12-20-2013, 08:54 AM
Well I didn't get to see the pics or video but I saw some pics posted somewhere else the other day of the product, not the wave.

Without seeing the wave, I was not blown away by whats suppose to be released in January. Better make a hell of a wave for MC to go to this amount of work to cover it up

snork
12-20-2013, 09:30 AM
Missed it, pisser.....all I read was "January", "January".....oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait 2 weeks

You didn't miss anything special just another bump in the water

skitilldark
12-20-2013, 10:32 AM
I miss everything. One night away from TT to celebrate my wife's bday and BAM...I miss something.

CantRepeat
12-20-2013, 10:34 AM
I miss everything. One night away from TT to celebrate my wife's bday and BAM...I miss something.

Don't worry, you didn't miss much.;)

scott023
12-20-2013, 12:15 PM
I miss everything. One night away from TT to celebrate my wife's bday and BAM...I miss something.

There must be moe to it then we saw. It looked pretty good, but I'm assuming there's more to it...

Specter
12-20-2013, 12:27 PM
That is not true, you not only need the original ballast completely full, but they also had two additional bags and pumps to wait the boat down.

In other words you do need a lot of ballast, but the tabs to all the shifting and shaping for you

Based on my experience no bags are needed. The 1,000lbs of stock ballast does the job.

scott023
12-20-2013, 01:06 PM
Based on my experience no bags are needed. The 1,000lbs of stock ballast does the job.

That's hard to believe. It'd have to be a heck of a system to get more height and push without adding any weight to the boat.

Seano
12-20-2013, 01:46 PM
That's hard to believe. It'd have to be a heck of a system to get more height and push without adding any weight to the boat.

Agreed

Jonb1822
12-20-2013, 02:15 PM
Do all of these new surf systems create wakes as good as slamming the boat to one dedicated side? Also any experience with these systems (any brand) when the boat is slammed to one side? For example, if I loaded up just my port side then used one of the new systems, does it help shape the wake even more?

CLTMC
12-20-2013, 02:52 PM
Do all of these new surf systems create wakes as good as slamming the boat to one dedicated side? Also any experience with these systems (any brand) when the boat is slammed to one side? For example, if I loaded up just my port side then used one of the new systems, does it help shape the wake even more?

Yes it does it is a very impressive system. MC will now have push button versatility in wave face shaping and instant surf riding versatility. Everyone will have to wait for MC public release January 2nd, or go see a local dealer that may have one already instock :D

CLTMC
12-20-2013, 03:26 PM
104029 someone may be able to find out some additional information here.

scott023
12-20-2013, 04:36 PM
104029 someone may be able to find out some additional information here.

Is that a Star?

Aric'sX15
12-20-2013, 05:06 PM
Yeah its steels x star!

MattsCraft
12-20-2013, 05:18 PM
Since all the unofficial vids have been taken down:

New title for this thread should be Gen 2 Surf System in action - "Not - Just Kidding":rolleyes:

scott023
12-20-2013, 05:19 PM
Yeah its steels x star!

Dang, its a beauty.

lashburn1
12-22-2013, 10:53 AM
.... -and with 2013 and Earlier Models being omitted from upgrading ....
....So died the users interest in this thread....
Sweet :(

masterx10
12-22-2013, 04:17 PM
From Wakeflotrussia

X25
http://youtu.be/8ZG1kvjqlOU

X46
http://youtu.be/ioCTzCejXyw

X10
http://youtu.be/q0G0KLywe4A

X30
http://youtu.be/3WYx8405w1M

CantRepeat
12-22-2013, 04:35 PM
Wow, tabs prove to be worthless, again.

scott023
12-22-2013, 04:49 PM
Wow, tabs prove to be worthless, again.

Are you always a negative Nancy? Or just 99% of the time?

Aric'sX15
12-22-2013, 05:07 PM
Wow, tabs prove to be worthless, again.

I was honestly impressed, whats not to like?

sand2snow22
12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
X30 looking good. It sounds like the tabs make the engine turn more RPM's that's for sure..

CantRepeat
12-22-2013, 06:21 PM
Really?

Honestly, from what we know about surf vids and perspective and camera angle is there anything to be over joyed on any of these?

The only thing I can say is good about this is it will give weekend recreational surfers an easy way to switch from port to starboard. Even with that the starboard still takes a hit.

Tabs are not some magical surf system. They do not add to the push, height, or mass of the wave. Anyone that has tried to weight a boat knows this isn't going to be some push a button and get a killer wave type thing.

If you want a great wave you are far better off spending your money on weight, IE sacs, pumps valves and time learning how to weight your boat.

Negative Nancy from the guy that called me a fuddy duddy for not surfing at night and without a vest. :confused:

snork
12-22-2013, 06:36 PM
I'm with CantRepeat, and the engine was turning 3800rpm :(
Personally I think the ski industry is taking a turn to the worse as far as wakesurfing is concerned
way to much effort and design going into something so unappealing, hopefully its a short lived fad

MASTIQUE
12-22-2013, 07:29 PM
I love surfing! However, these are very disappointing videos, hoping the conditions sucked (maybe in super choppy water) and must be stock or no ballast. My old 2012 X45 with standard tabs was better than all
if these. Why is this such a hard nut to crack? Plus I'm sure these will cost more for "Gen2".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Aric'sX15
12-22-2013, 07:43 PM
While Im not a "recreational" surfer (airs, spins, working on shoves), but it seems decent. I am super impressed by the 2014 23 lsv and its tabs, but it has the wedge to play with the hieght and push issue. I ride with a few goofy surfers, so a solid fix the switch time down is sweet in retrospect.

But I agree that money would be better spent on having super fast pumps (or the MB gravity ballast concept) since the weight gives you more control of the wave. Gonna have tl go demo one here soon when they hit the showroom.

FourFourty
12-22-2013, 08:03 PM
So much speculation and critique on videos taken from a phone..... Of surf waves, on a rough lake, from a high angle, and no rider. Judging anything by these videos is completely useless.

Aric'sX15
12-22-2013, 08:07 PM
So much speculation and critique on videos taken from a phone..... Of surf waves, on a rough lake, from a high angle, and no rider. Judging anything by these videos is completely useless.

side note, your boat made it to MC's instagram!

Jonb1822
12-22-2013, 09:00 PM
I wonder what the waves would look like if they were weighted more to one side. For example weighting the port side like we currently do then use the tabs to clean up the wave. Would be interesting.

FourFourty
12-22-2013, 09:23 PM
side note, your boat made it to MC's instagram!

It did?? I guess I better check that out!

FourFourty
12-22-2013, 09:25 PM
I wonder what the waves would look like if they were weighted more to one side. For example weighting the port side like we currently do then use the tabs to clean up the wave. Would be interesting.

Probably better...... Just like the others. If you want the best wave you can get, you have to offset the weight. Doesn't matter if we are talking surf gate, nss, swell, or mc gen II.

snork
12-22-2013, 09:30 PM
Is this X30 not weighted enough?

CantRepeat
12-22-2013, 09:44 PM
So much speculation and critique on videos taken from a phone..... Of surf waves, on a rough lake, from a high angle, and no rider. Judging anything by these videos is completely useless.

You must be kidding me???

Phone or not, we can make judgements based on pass experiences. You know what a tall wave looks like from vids that show the entire back of the boat. If it was vid from water level on the side of the boat I would agree with you. But there more then enough reference points in all those videos to drew from to know this is nothing great.

I'm not saying these boats can't be great surf boats. I'm just saying that what they shot isn't great or good by any standard. Moreover, short of switching from side to side these surf wakes aren't any better then my old 92 Maristar sacked out.

A crap surf wave is still crap even if you can switch it from side to side in 10 seconds.

FourFourty
12-22-2013, 09:57 PM
You must be kidding me???

Phone or not, we can make judgements based on pass experiences. You know what a tall wave looks like from vids that show the entire back of the boat. If it was vid from water level on the side of the boat I would agree with you. But there more then enough reference points in all those videos to drew from to know this is nothing great.

I'm not saying these boats can't be great surf boats. I'm just saying that what they shot isn't great or good by any standard. Moreover, short of switching from side to side these surf wakes aren't any better then my old 92 Maristar sacked out.

A crap surf wave is still crap even if you can switch it from side to side in 10 seconds.

Sorry...... THERE ISNT EVEN A RIDER BEHIND THE BOAT!!!


You must be kidding me.

CantRepeat
12-22-2013, 11:48 PM
Sorry...... THERE ISNT EVEN A RIDER BEHIND THE BOAT!!!


You must be kidding me.


Nope, not kidding you.

I don't need to see a rider being the boat when the angle is from the back seat of the boat. However if the angle was one of those "at water level upward vids" then I could see your point.

Small wave is small wave.

snork
12-23-2013, 09:36 AM
...:wavey:...

bbymgr
12-23-2013, 10:30 AM
Note to self.................I don't think CantRepeat likes the new surf system...........may need to verify.:rolleyes:

FourFourty
12-23-2013, 11:12 AM
Note to self.................I don't think CantRepeat likes the new surf system...........may need to verify.:rolleyes:

Well, he has a point...... You obviously don't need details on lake condition, depth, weight, number of people in the boat, speed, a height reference, or even a rider to tell if a surf wave is any good or not. You just need a random dealer to shoot a crappy iPhone clip.

MASTIQUE
12-23-2013, 11:13 AM
More pics for your viewing pleasure....

lashburn1
12-23-2013, 11:20 AM
can't Repeat, May or may not like the new Surf System, it's hard to tell from the Angle of my iPad ...:D:steering:

...side note... I'm more interested in final decision about upgrade possibilities for 13s, as I'm not in a position to drop $100k to Surf. :rant:

MattsCraft
12-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Thanks for posting Mastique - So new tab design, different actuator placement... I for one can't see why you could not retrofit. Sure, you have to do a little glass work, but can't fathom what would need to change in the software control???

jbkriss
12-23-2013, 01:01 PM
Wonder if they all going to come with that big black plate across the transom like in the photos above? Hopefully they don't all have to come in black.

Stefan
12-23-2013, 01:10 PM
Wonder if they all going to come with that big black plate across the transom like in the photos above? Hopefully they don't all have to come in black.

Black hull, wood wrap for the dealers convention...

Jonb1822
12-23-2013, 01:45 PM
Is this more ballast than previous? For example the x25. The current ballat is around 1000lbs I believe.

lashburn1
12-23-2013, 03:03 PM
yes, much more

Jonb1822
12-23-2013, 09:51 PM
Not to start a major debate, but if this is just stock ballast then I think the waves look great. If you throw extra ballast on top then I think the waves will look pretty good. Guess we will see soon.

jkcTN
12-23-2013, 10:05 PM
These new surf systems come with additional ballast built into the oveeflows.. I can't imagine that video of the new system didn't have the additional ballast installed as it is part of the whole gen 2 surf system.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

scott023
12-23-2013, 10:21 PM
Really?

Honestly, from what we know about surf vids and perspective and camera angle is there anything to be over joyed on any of these?

The only thing I can say is good about this is it will give weekend recreational surfers an easy way to switch from port to starboard. Even with that the starboard still takes a hit.

Tabs are not some magical surf system. They do not add to the push, height, or mass of the wave. Anyone that has tried to weight a boat knows this isn't going to be some push a button and get a killer wave type thing.

If you want a great wave you are far better off spending your money on weight, IE sacs, pumps valves and time learning how to weight your boat.

Negative Nancy from the guy that called me a fuddy duddy for not surfing at night and without a vest. :confused:

Look at the pic again Tim. I had a vest on, your memory must be going in old age.:rolleyes:

scott023
12-23-2013, 10:34 PM
Looks like a vest to me.

lashburn1
12-24-2013, 02:46 AM
Not to start a major debate, but if this is just stock ballast then I think the waves look great. If you throw extra ballast on top then I think the waves will look pretty good. Guess we will see soon.

It has at least 1000 Lbs extra ballast

atthelake
12-24-2013, 03:22 AM
After going through this thread I am:
A) Apparently supposed to be thoroughly disappointed in my, on order, X30 that it appears only a very select few have had the pleasure or dis-pleasure ( going by comments of a select few whom haven't even seen them in person) of riding behind.
B) Constantly exiting out of this site to ensure I am still on Mastercraft Teamtalk
C) Expanding on my list of people that with no amount of $$$ or begging will ever get to ride behind my boat.
D) Still understanding why I don't post videos...especially from my phone haha.

Jonb1822
12-24-2013, 03:36 AM
These new surf systems come with additional ballast built into the oveeflows.. I can't imagine that video of the new system didn't have the additional ballast installed as it is part of the whole gen 2 surf system.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Good point.

Jonb1822
12-24-2013, 03:39 AM
After going through this thread I am:
A) Apparently supposed to be thoroughly disappointed in my, on order, X30 that it appears only a very select few have had the pleasure or dis-pleasure ( going by comments of a select few whom haven't even seen them in person) of riding behind.
B) Constantly exiting out of this site to ensure I am still on Mastercraft Teamtalk
C) Expanding on my list of people that with no amount of $$$ or begging will ever get to ride behind my boat.
D) Still understanding why I don't post videos...especially from my phone haha.

Who cares, as long as you and your family enjoy it then no need to care about what others think. :)

atthelake
12-24-2013, 04:14 AM
Who cares, as long as you and your family enjoy it then no need to care about what others think. :)

Haha, I know. No worries here. My version of a rant.
Merry Christmas!

Jonb1822
12-24-2013, 08:48 AM
Merry Christmas and congrats on the new boat.

scott023
12-24-2013, 09:43 AM
After going through this thread I am:
A) Apparently supposed to be thoroughly disappointed in my, on order, X30 that it appears only a very select few have had the pleasure or dis-pleasure ( going by comments of a select few whom haven't even seen them in person) of riding behind.
B) Constantly exiting out of this site to ensure I am still on Mastercraft Teamtalk
C) Expanding on my list of people that with no amount of $$$ or begging will ever get to ride behind my boat.
D) Still understanding why I don't post videos...especially from my phone haha.

It'll be wicked for your family. I think you made a great choice.

FourFourty
12-24-2013, 10:26 AM
It has at least 1000 Lbs extra ballast

If they were weighting them according to "surf package", It was nowhere near that much. More like 500lbs of extra ballast. The rear surf sacks for the X25 are 250lb bags. The rear tanks are 330lbs each, and the front tank is 400lbs. And according to the dealers that where there, that was the ballast configuration. Stock ballast+surf package rear bags, which puts that X25 at about 1500lbs of total ballast.

Specter
12-24-2013, 02:11 PM
Based on some recent Instagram activity I'm speculating that MC will officially announce the system on Jan 2, 2014.

lashburn1
12-24-2013, 10:11 PM
If they were weighting them according to "surf package", It was nowhere near that much. More like 500lbs of extra ballast. The rear surf sacks for the X25 are 250lb bags. The rear tanks are 330lbs each, and the front tank is 400lbs. And according to the dealers that where there, that was the ballast configuration. Stock ballast+surf package rear bags, which puts that X25 at about 1500lbs of total ballast.

I must have misread the new Brochure that was posted.
I the the Boat/Ballast photos were the added surf weight,
Not the TOTAL ballast ...my bad.

My X-30 came with twin 750 HI flys and pumps, I just figured MC put 710s in the same hole cause they fit better ....

That's not much ballast , the the surf looked nice on the short video I saw

mcLove
12-25-2013, 01:31 AM
i expected something a little better. Hopefully conditions weren't good or not much ballast

Nick911
12-25-2013, 01:55 AM
If they were weighting them according to "surf package", It was nowhere near that much. More like 500lbs of extra ballast. The rear surf sacks for the X25 are 250lb bags. The rear tanks are 330lbs each, and the front tank is 400lbs. And according to the dealers that where there, that was the ballast configuration. Stock ballast+surf package rear bags, which puts that X25 at about 1500lbs of total ballast.

I thought X25 only had 800 total hard tank?

FourFourty
12-25-2013, 08:48 AM
I must have misread the new Brochure that was posted.
I the the Boat/Ballast photos were the added surf weight,
Not the TOTAL ballast ...my bad.

My X-30 came with twin 750 HI flys and pumps, I just figured MC put 710s in the same hole cause they fit better ....

That's not much ballast , the the surf looked nice on the short video I saw

Ya, no way a 710 would fit back there. Would be nice if it did. My fly high kit for the X25 was 2 250lb for the back, and 1 300lb for the front. You could probably fit 350s back there, which may be what they did.... Nick raised a good point below.

I thought X25 only had 800 total hard tank?

Ya, I remember that now. I think it was 860 or 880 right? It's been a couple years....

It's probably twin 230lb hard tanks in the back, and 350lb bags. Or something like that....

CantRepeat
12-25-2013, 08:53 AM
i expected something a little better. Hopefully conditions weren't good or not much ballast

Yeah with 7 people in the boat I would have expected more too.

Morety
12-25-2013, 10:29 AM
If those are the correct numbers, I like that the X10 has the most ballast (1920 lbs) in the smallest boat!

501s
12-25-2013, 11:33 AM
I run my X-30 with stock 1k and 750s in the rear . That is amount I like to make sure I always have a good wake/wave.
These new "surf" numbers seem low to me, for being surf specific setups.

Nick911
12-25-2013, 12:06 PM
I thought it was 200's in rear and 400 up front for the X25's. This because the front tank takes approximately twice as long to fill.

I put the X2 sacs at 450 lbs in my back compartments. They pretty much fill the compartment.

Aric'sX15
12-25-2013, 01:55 PM
You guys must all be pro surfers!

501s
12-25-2013, 04:08 PM
I'm no "pro wake surfer" if that is something you can even be professional at.

But the truth is, the factory 1000 lbs makes an "ok" wave but nothing to write home about, but adding 750's to each side completely changed that. I have the lead in there for wakeboarding but it's nice for suring too.

CantRepeat
12-25-2013, 06:21 PM
You guys must all be pro surfers!

Yeah, everyone is making that claim but only one of us really is. :D

Will the real pro wake surfer please stand up!!

Specter
12-26-2013, 09:31 AM
I'm no "pro wake surfer" if that is something you can even be professional at.

But the truth is, the factory 1000 lbs makes an "ok" wave but nothing to write home about, but adding 750's to each side completely changed that. I have the lead in there for wakeboarding but it's nice for suring too.

My experience as an X-30 owner has been similar to 501s in regards to weight. However, the placement of the weight is key with the 30.

I can produce very similar waves with two completely different amounts of weight all due to placement. These two setups produce tall lippy waves.

1. Roughly 1,100lbs. Factory ballast full on surf side and KGB. 400lb Sumo Sac on top of seat in back right corner of surf side.

2. Roughly 2,000lbs. Factory ballast full on surf side and KGB. 900lb Sumo Sac in surf side locker and 400lb Sumo Sac under coffin seat (if that's the surf side).

The lower the weight sits in the boat the more you need to create a larger wave. The higher the weight sits the less amount of weight you need.

Just my 2-cented observation based on hours of bag filling and placement in my own boat.

jbkriss
12-26-2013, 11:44 AM
Does this look like a Gen2 tab?

http://images6.boattrader.com/resize/1/67/50/4536750_0_311219691600_2.jpg?w=640&h=480&t=1156356

snork
12-26-2013, 12:07 PM
it sure does

scott023
12-26-2013, 01:23 PM
Looks like a lot of hardware under there.

Stefan
12-26-2013, 03:54 PM
Yepp, pretty sure is...

REDX2
12-27-2013, 04:46 PM
Do's any one know if this can be added to a 2012 X25

Aric'sX15
12-27-2013, 05:03 PM
Most signs are pointing to no.

lashburn1
12-27-2013, 06:26 PM
Do's any one know if this can be added to a 2012 X25

It seems 2012 and earlier might be out of the question with the earlier computer. ...
A few dealer reps have suggested 2013 and earlier are not going to be upgradable....
No one can say "why" the current Computer system boats are not upgradable...
And that's all anyone knows until MC Does a promo announce in Jan. ,,
To my knowledge MC has not commented officially to public on the matter of upgrades.

501s
12-28-2013, 01:16 AM
As much as I want the option to upgrade to the new tabs, not allowing it will allow MC to sell more new boats, so I'm sure they won't allow it. I just wonder how much harder it will be to move all those trades.

Bu is not retrofitting but Nautique is.

jafo9
12-28-2013, 03:29 AM
I totally get that MC wants/needs to sell new boats. I gotta say that if I had just laid out 100k for a new boat and got left out, I'd be upset.

scott023
12-28-2013, 03:45 AM
I totally get that MC wants/needs to sell new boats. I gotta say that if I had just laid out 100k for a new boat and got left out, I'd be upset.

You're not the only one that would feel that way.

jbkriss
12-28-2013, 08:10 AM
I said it before but the dealers who still have 2013s on the lot and there are plenty, will be upset too.

dt37803
12-28-2013, 09:09 AM
Not too upset if MC offers a rebate on them (the ones with a surf pkg that is)

scott023
12-28-2013, 11:36 AM
Not too upset if MC offers a rebate on them (the ones with a surf pkg that is)

I'd be surprised if they did that.

lashburn1
12-28-2013, 01:53 PM
I said it before but the dealers who still have 2013s on the lot and there are plenty, will be upset too.

Dealer down by me is still sitting on a 2012 X-25....
Unlike cars, it is not uncommon for a dealer to carry stock from previous year...
In the Grand scheme of things a boats Surf package or lack of is not going to hinder most sales at the fare market price. ....
Surfing is becoming more popular each season...so soon this will change..

JohnE
12-28-2013, 02:11 PM
Keep in mind that many buyers will not even realize the new surf system exists. I don't think it will be a problem for dealers with old stock.

dt37803
12-28-2013, 02:13 PM
Besides, The way prices increase each year a new 2012 or 13 will still be a good buy compared to 2014.

KahunaCraft
12-28-2013, 02:36 PM
The key to the retrofit for any year is a few things:

The Lenco setting for the change of travel distance of the new actuators will require some programming of the Lenco module. I did that last year, not too hard. Edit: to change ballast timers...

Worst case scenario, I'd buy the 2014 actuator wiring harness, new tabs, new mounting plate, actuators and Lenco module and use the manual switch on the dash to control them(no integration to the touch screen).

I think it is a liability ownership or risk / reward question MC legal and then marketing has to decide. I suspect dealers can add whatever tab you want on the boat.

CLTMC
12-29-2013, 07:59 PM
The key to the retrofit for any year is a few things:

The Lenco setting for the change of travel distance of the new actuators will require some programming of the Lenco module. I did that last year, not too hard. Edit: to change ballast timers...

Worst case scenario, I'd buy the 2014 actuator wiring harness, new tabs, new mounting plate, actuators and Lenco module and use the manual switch on the dash to control them(no integration to the touch screen).

I think it is a liability ownership or risk / reward question MC legal and then marketing has to decide. I suspect dealers can add whatever tab you want on the boat.

My thoughts exactly:)

CLTMC
12-29-2013, 08:16 PM
I don't know if anybody mentioned the FL test lake for 2014 Dealerdays was shallow in most part's middle was 14' deep wave face changed dramatically from 7' depth 14' depth, 14' depths could only be maintained for few minute intervals. 6 surf boats searching for deep water in a punch bowl of a lake made for interesting water conditions. Most boats tested only saw 7'-9' of water when testing unless they found the 14' sweet spot in the middle of the lake. We are very excited about the release of the Gen2 SurfSystem.

Nick911
12-29-2013, 09:45 PM
I don't know if anybody mentioned the FL test lake for 2014 Dealerdays was shallow in most part's middle was 14' deep wave face changed dramatically from 7' depth 14' depth, 14' depths could only be maintained for few minute intervals. 6 surf boats searching for deep water in a punch bowl of a lake made for interesting water conditions. Most boats tested only saw 7'-9' of water when testing unless they found the 14' sweet spot in the middle of the lake. We are very excited about the release of the Gen2 SurfSystem.

So you are a dealer? What's the word in retrofit on 2013's?

CLTMC
12-29-2013, 10:21 PM
So you are a dealer? What's the word in retrofit on 2013's?

There is no word yet, dealers are working on upgrading 2014's built with Gen1 Systems currently, I am sure there will be a work around for most applications. Similar to what KahunaCraft mentioned, MC is due to release info soon.

bcd
12-31-2013, 02:46 PM
I saw that seedealercost.com has 2014 Gen2 pricing listed on their site. I have no idea how accurate it is.

dt37803
01-02-2014, 08:52 AM
Is today the day of the BIG news ??? :-)

Stefan
01-02-2014, 10:42 AM
Is today the day of the BIG news ??? :-)

supposedly...

JohnE
01-02-2014, 10:47 AM
So you are a dealer? What's the word in retrofit on 2013's?

He didn't exactly answer - he is the Charlotte MC dealer.

jbkriss
01-02-2014, 10:57 AM
Is today the day of the BIG news ??? :-)

That's what was stated earlier in this thread I believe.

Gen 2 - Jan 2

Sounds pretty close to me...

JohnE
01-02-2014, 11:10 AM
Better log in to facebook

jbkriss
01-02-2014, 11:45 AM
don't have facebook. Can anyone else relate what is on there?

skitilldark
01-02-2014, 12:03 PM
I'll admit I am internet challenged, but I see no official info on MC's FB site as of 10am cst...

FourFourty
01-02-2014, 12:03 PM
Nothing yet...

FourFourty
01-02-2014, 01:07 PM
From FB.... 1PM

"What is everyone doing in roughly one hour from now?

Perhaps you should swing by our page to have your mind blown.

We say "mind blown" with the utmost respect for your mind...but you may want to bring some rags to clean yourself up.
1PM EST time.
Be here."

atthelake
01-02-2014, 02:12 PM
It's on.
Mission 05- Double Barrel
Check on MC YouTube channel.

Mastercraftdave
01-02-2014, 02:21 PM
Not gonna lie. I was expecting more.....

Aric'sX15
01-02-2014, 02:24 PM
The prostar video was way better.

MASTIQUE
01-02-2014, 02:27 PM
So from the video it is only on the X30?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

FamilyX2
01-02-2014, 02:38 PM
So from the video it is only on the X30?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Gen 2 Surf System is now available on these 2014 models: X2, X10, X25, X30, X46 and X55


http://www.mastercraft.com/news/detail/515

TMC
01-02-2014, 02:52 PM
So from the video it is only on the X30?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

The video was shot using the X30, yes. However the Gen 2 Surf System works on several models really well. See video below...

https://vimeo.com/79681082

Also keep in mind there are no tricks here. What you see is what you get - we did not add any additional weight beyond what you can get with Gen 2. And in the vimeo video above, there were only two people in the boat... Zane and the guy filming him. So we are pretty stoked about this system as it really creates great wakes with very little effort or people. Add people and you can imagine how epic your days on the water will be...

Jason

atthelake
01-02-2014, 02:58 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I always just went on the premise that my new X30 will have a bigger surf wave than the 09 Star did. That was always good enough for me. The development of these Gen2 tabs is all a bonus. Glad I waited till this year to swap out.

JohnE
01-02-2014, 03:02 PM
I wondeer why it is not available on the 35 and 45.

dt37803
01-02-2014, 03:04 PM
They don't build the x45 any more

FourFourty
01-02-2014, 03:07 PM
I wondeer why it is not available on the 35 and 45.

They stopped making the 45, and I think they might quit the 35 soon as well. It was never a good seller....

FourFourty
01-02-2014, 03:09 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I always just went on the premise that my new X30 will have a bigger surf wave than the 09 Star did. That was always good enough for me. The development of these Gen2 tabs is all a bonus. Glad I waited till this year to swap out.

I can't say that my mind was blown with that video. However, It looks pretty darn good IMO. I think you will be happy you waited for sure....

jbkriss
01-02-2014, 03:19 PM
ok, question for the dealers on this thread :D

Will you be able to upgrade the 2013s to Gen 2?

Seems like after all the current 2014s get upgraded, you'd be able to do it to the 2013s?

DBrown2
01-02-2014, 03:28 PM
I am more curious in Retro on a older boat that some working stiff as myself can still afford.
Based on pics... and going by a Boat Salvage Harbor one could fashion up something semi cheap.

Cant wait to see more close up pics, and someone will hopefully post part numbers to source or shop by. I did catch the one plate does say Patent Pending.

atthelake
01-02-2014, 03:32 PM
I can't say that my mind was blown with that video. However, It looks pretty darn good IMO. I think you will be happy you waited for sure....

It compares to how all your firends have seen a movie and then proceed to tell you how it's "the funniest movie ever made!!!!!" and by the time you see you barely can crack a smile... I think it's great, boat appears to not be listed right over on either side (big plus for the wife and my young drivers) and the driver doesn't look like he has to put all his might into driving the boat (little different than the cousin's VLX with SG).
Now if we could just warm up literally 35-50 degrees Celcius, we'd be stylin'.

JohnE
01-02-2014, 03:33 PM
They stopped making the 45, and I think they might quit the 35 soon as well. It was never a good seller....

I didn't realize they retired the 45. I figured they were phasing both models out

Petefranc
01-02-2014, 03:48 PM
The reveal trailer didn't do the wave justice. I'm not saying the wave looked bad, but there should have been footage of the wave with nobody riding it. Also, all riders in the video were close to the boat. How about some footage showing off the length of the wave? All I saw from this trailer were people carving back and forth for 3 minutes 5 feet behind the platform. That is something I can accomplish behind my '02.

I road behind an evenly weighted x46 this past fall only using tabs. The wave was unbelievable! It had excellent push. However, the best part about the wave was its length. I was able to ride at 20+ ft back with ease. Lastly, how about some tricks? I get the relax mentality and family crowd appeal, but this trailer didn't pump me up at all (think x star reveal). That trailer hit it spot on. Just my opinion..

MattsCraft
01-02-2014, 03:54 PM
So I see nothing in the video to tell me you can't retro on '13's???? I heard "no" because no software support... What??? I can set up by '13 surf/left or right with equal ballast. I all ready have plumbed in extra bags... I have been surfing for the better part of this year exactly like this "Even weight distribution" and only using the tabs and people positioned somewhat surf side. I have the ability to switch the tabs with the toggle switch!!!

I will have to see in person if the "new tabs are worth the hassle to retro. I can get the same waves shown in the video today, only difference is I need a couple bodies on the surf side... Typically not a problem, which is why I upgraded from the X2, bodies are not a problem and it sure is not much fun to boat alone, lol.

By the way, they did not show the X25, however I thought the X46 had the worst wave, seemed short and tall vs the longer wave, which any good surfer will tell you is the goal, good length with tons of push and decent height!

Specter
01-02-2014, 03:55 PM
For those wanting to see the wave without a rider: http://vimeo.com/79681082

Petefranc
01-02-2014, 04:08 PM
For those wanting to see the wave without a rider: http://vimeo.com/79681082

Thanks for posting the link. I've only rode the x46 so far but its wave was excellent. I'm curious how much difference the wave will have with gen2.

Datdude
01-02-2014, 04:10 PM
I saw the system in action and it was very impressive! Pictures do not do the wake shape and wake size justice. Switching sides on the fly is not a feature we will use very often, but loading the boat evenly and switching sides for rider changes quickly will be awesome. When we tested the boats we did not have much chance to play with ballast amounts (all ballast 100% full) but I have to believe that it can get better with some adjustments. Having the boat ride fairly level with no additional bags in the boat is going to be a great improvement.

Jonb1822
01-02-2014, 04:39 PM
X30 and X10 look good. The other waves were nothing special IMO. It will interesting to play with the weight to see what it can produce.

mplv
01-02-2014, 05:49 PM
should know how it does on a x46 with big boy bags soon

Jonb1822
01-02-2014, 05:58 PM
Sweet. Please share the pics/videos. :)

craig3972
01-02-2014, 06:23 PM
I am more curious in Retro on a older boat that some working stiff as myself can still afford.
Based on pics... and going by a Boat Salvage Harbor one could fashion up something semi cheap.

Cant wait to see more close up pics, and someone will hopefully post part numbers to source or shop by. I did catch the one plate does say Patent Pending.

when somebody gets this all figured out for an 06 xstar, please let me know.

Stefan
01-02-2014, 06:24 PM
should know how it does on a x46 with big boy bags soon

Great to see that you're on it as promised, can't wait for pics/videos :D

bcd
01-02-2014, 07:14 PM
It doesn't seem like the extra ballast is maxed out in the rear. For the X-2, they list the Gen2 system as having 1350 lbs total (250 up front and 550 in each rear locker). Factory is 900 pounds, and you can put the 455 lb X-2 fly high in each rear locker for 1810 lbs total (not counting the additional fly high bag for the bow). I wonder if that's to not go over the max weight limit of the boat (1448 lbs).

jason95gt
01-02-2014, 07:39 PM
When I drove the X-25, 10,30 and 46, the 46 had the biggest improvement out of them all. I had weighted an X-46 with significantly more weight than the Gen 2 systems has and didn't duplicate anything close to the new systems wave.

Also, the X-25 seemed to be the tallest compared to all the other boats.

jason95gt
01-02-2014, 07:43 PM
Someone could put these on an older model, but these are all model specific and who knows what the outcome would be if you put the Wake shaping devices on an older XStar or anything else. All the connections and how they would work would have to be figured out by the owner.

dlamont
01-02-2014, 07:54 PM
I don't see why you couldn't put this on any MC with "Gen1" surf tabs. You might have to look at a 2014 to get the tab location but the helm control is the same and the Lenco actuator looks the same. Am I missing something?

Definitely much nicer waves than before.

scott023
01-02-2014, 08:20 PM
I can't say that my mind was blown with that video. However, It looks pretty darn good IMO. I think you will be happy you waited for sure....

I agree. Looked good, but didn't blow my mind.

scott023
01-02-2014, 08:22 PM
I saw the system in action and it was very impressive! Pictures do not do the wake shape and wake size justice. Switching sides on the fly is not a feature we will use very often, but loading the boat evenly and switching sides for rider changes quickly will be awesome. When we tested the boats we did not have much chance to play with ballast amounts (all ballast 100% full) but I have to believe that it can get better with some adjustments. Having the boat ride fairly level with no additional bags in the boat is going to be a great improvement.

That is a huge improvement, no doubt that.

dt37803
01-02-2014, 08:32 PM
I had the pleasure of demo-ing the Surf system on Nov 6th at the plant. We signed papers not to disclose until released. Prototype boats ,X2 X10 X30 X46 and 2 competitors boats. Was quite impressed with the wave's cleanliness and adjustable length and shape. Wife surfed on 4 different boats (had never surfed b4) came up so easy first try. Video was shot, and interviews taken,Was shown at intro @ dealers meeting in Orlando. Wife was on the big screen :) Great system and great MC drivers!

scott023
01-02-2014, 08:41 PM
I had the pleasure of demo-ing the Surf system on Nov 6th at the plant. We signed papers not to disclose until released. Prototype boats ,X2 X10 X30 X46 and 2 competitors boats. Was quite impressed with the wave's cleanliness and adjustable length and shape. Wife surfed on 4 different boats (had never surfed b4) came up so easy first try. Video was shot, and interviews taken,Was shown at intro @ dealers meeting in Orlando. Wife was on the big screen :) Great system and great MC drivers!

That's great to hear.

Jonb1822
01-02-2014, 08:48 PM
Just for clarification, did you weight a X46 without the new Gen2 and then used the Gen2 with less weight to compare?

When I drove the X-25, 10,30 and 46, the 46 had the biggest improvement out of them all. I had weighted an X-46 with significantly more weight than the Gen 2 systems has and didn't duplicate anything close to the new systems wave.

Also, the X-25 seemed to be the tallest compared to all the other boats.

dt37803
01-02-2014, 09:01 PM
I agree, the smaller boats seemed to have more impressive wakes

MASTIQUE
01-02-2014, 09:17 PM
The video was shot using the X30, yes. However the Gen 2 Surf System works on several models really well. See video below...



https://vimeo.com/79681082



Also keep in mind there are no tricks here. What you see is what you get - we did not add any additional weight beyond what you can get with Gen 2. And in the vimeo video above, there were only two people in the boat... Zane and the guy filming him. So we are pretty stoked about this system as it really creates great wakes with very little effort or people. Add people and you can imagine how epic your days on the water will be...



Jason


Much better Video! Awesome to not have a leaning boat and everything clean ala no bags on seats! Cleaner wash on starboard than I expected and longer pipe than surf gate. The surf gate bu's I've been in needed extra bags on the bow seats and walk thru floors to put out a good surf wake. They need to do factory weighted surf side by sides with all the competitor boats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

coz
01-02-2014, 09:21 PM
Seriously, this is what the hype is all about? I was expecting to see a lot more than that. I'm not impressed :rolleyes: in fact, doesn't look much different than a tanked out 45 :confused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbl7l8Y2Bns&feature=c4-overview&list=UUZ61L92TsCQku4zi2CXxw0w

Mastercraft13
01-02-2014, 09:35 PM
This is great if you need to surf both sides of the wake. I have a 13' X-10 without the surf tabs, I just have the attitude plate in the back and with additional weight in the rear locker and under the coffin seat my wake looks similar to the vids. I can elongate it by using the AA plate, but my thought process was this boat was small enough to get it to list to one side to surf, now when I do upgrade to a bigger model I think I can justify the extra help the tabs provide to get the boat to list properly.

Nick911
01-02-2014, 10:13 PM
Talked to my dealer. They are looking at being able to retro 2013's as well. He didn't see any issues and never hinted that MC wouldn't allow it. He said what they are working on is a plate that mounts to the back of the boat so no gel repairs will be required due to all the new holes that need to be made and old holds to be covered. Kind of like a bolt on system. He will get back to me in a few weeks with pricing. My 2013 is at dealer now for winter and I've greenlighted mine for conversion as soon as they have a system (likely the same system that is deployed to update the 2014's).

Good news.

My other concern? We run more than stock plus rear bags for surfing. This will render this system useless unless I can add equal weight to both sides. For example, I fill an extra 750 lbs under the port coffin for port surfing, I'll still need to drain that bag and fill the starboard bag for switching sides. It will take some experimentation as well.

dt37803
01-02-2014, 10:23 PM
When we tested the system we could not look at bags or tabs. The main thing I liked was that the boat didn't lean to one side and the bow height was lower to give the driver better visibility. one tough operation makes it pretty simple to use even for a newbie like me. Using the center plate allowed the wake to be lengthened and lower or made shorter and steeper

Nick911
01-02-2014, 11:33 PM
Mastercraft's Facebook page says no retro before 2014.

Specter
01-03-2014, 12:18 AM
When we tested the system we could not look at bags or tabs. The main thing I liked was that the boat didn't lean to one side and the bow height was lower to give the driver better visibility. one tough operation makes it pretty simple to use even for a newbie like me. Using the center plate allowed the wake to be lengthened and lower or made shorter and steeper

You must have been on a different boat (if you took part in the same test session that I did) because we never altered the center tab.

Regardless, the system works really well and those who have been filling bags and slinging lead will love it. Of all the models I rode I would give the edge to the X30 followed closely by the X2 and X10.

The X46 doesn't do a thing for me, surf system or not. I've surfed it sac'd and Gen 2 system and it doesn't hold a light to any of the other models. Just my .02 cents.

CantRepeat
01-03-2014, 02:04 AM
Vids and just as I figured... not a game changer.

It's trim tabs.

sand2snow22
01-03-2014, 02:15 AM
X-30 platform needs a refurb :(

Quinten
01-03-2014, 07:55 AM
It doesn't seem like the extra ballast is maxed out in the rear. For the X-2, they list the Gen2 system as having 1350 lbs total (250 up front and 550 in each rear locker). Factory is 900 pounds, and you can put the 455 lb X-2 fly high in each rear locker for 1810 lbs total (not counting the additional fly high bag for the bow). I wonder if that's to not go over the max weight limit of the boat (1448 lbs).

Where do you get the 900 pounds stock from? We hava a 2012 and it only has 550 pound regarding to the medaillon system :s

dt37803
01-03-2014, 09:04 AM
I stand corrected Specter, It was on a 2nd lake test 3 wees ago that we got to play with the system ourselves. The center plate shapes the wake pretty well

bcd
01-03-2014, 10:21 AM
Where do you get the 900 pounds stock from? We hava a 2012 and it only has 550 pound regarding to the medaillon system :s

The spec I had on my 2012 was 890 pounds (all 3 tanks). It doesn't look like it's listed on MC's website anymore. I found this thread that said 07 factory was 838 pounds:
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25491&highlight=x2+factory+ballast

Of course looking at the gen2 diagram, they only show 250 pounds in the KGB, not the 388 Roonie listed.

bcd
01-03-2014, 10:35 AM
I think this is where I got the 890 pounds from:
http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/boats/2009/08/26/mastercraft-boats-x-2-2009/

FourFourty
01-03-2014, 11:39 AM
I agree. Looked good, but didn't blow my mind.

To be fair, I just went back and watched the intro videos for surfgate and NSS. The waves in those vids don't look any more impressive.... Especially surfgate. Even the video for the new LSV shows a fairly dirty wave that is smaller than the X30 wave in this vid. That being said, the 46 wave didn't look too fantastic to me. The 30, 10, and 2, however......

I don't know why anyone would think it was going to be some surprise feature. We all knew it was going to be a different approach for surf tab functionality. It's what we all wanted, and looks like it works as good as any of the others. I will be happy to have minimal setup time, and run evenly weighted....

lashburn1
01-03-2014, 11:45 AM
Well... some likers, some not likers. No Haters or Lovers here yet..... ( except Can't Repeats, who typically dislikes everything )

Looks good too me , no tricky Camera footage shots, should keep prospective buyers hopes in check upon Demo and purchase...

It is good that MASTERCRAFT did not hype this release.....it is no "Game Changer" it is simply a very nice Surf System.... Just what they needed.

Shaping the wave Can be an Art...moving and adding ballast, playing with Tabs etc..

But being able to push a button to get very nice Surf.... That's is appealing

Quinten
01-03-2014, 12:59 PM
The spec I had on my 2012 was 890 pounds (all 3 tanks). It doesn't look like it's listed on MC's website anymore. I found this thread that said 07 factory was 838 pounds:
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25491&highlight=x2+factory+ballast

Of course looking at the gen2 diagram, they only show 250 pounds in the KGB, not the 388 Roonie listed.

I think this is where I got the 890 pounds from:
http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/boats/2009/08/26/mastercraft-boats-x-2-2009/

Strange, or was it 225 for the rear and 250 for the kgb :s, need to check it again (in the season) on the display.
The 250 showing in the gen2, I think is additional.

Aric'sX15
01-03-2014, 01:24 PM
Would like to see the center plates shaping ability.

jason95gt
01-03-2014, 03:14 PM
JonB8122, I ran that extra weight in a non Gen 2 system X-46 and then was able to drive the 46 at dealer days with the Gen2 system and it is running about half the weight I ran with much better results.

Mastercraft13,
Also, it is possible to get a close wake to the new Gen2 system with listing the boat, but unless everyone rides on one side the great thing is that the boat is so much more versatile. You can switch riders and wake sports within seconds.

Nick911,
From what we were told, you still can list the boat and use the wake shaping devices but it isn't needed.

Others have stated that the wake doesn't look much better than a loaded X.. but that is the great thing is that the boat is running half, if not more than half of the weight needed to make that wake.
Easier to set up and less wear and tear on the motor, gas and everything else.

dgall
01-03-2014, 04:18 PM
Had a quick chat with my dealer, he thinks a retrofit will be possible on my 2013 X10, I'm imagining their might be some software hiccups to deal with in previous years, but hopefully it's at least available for the 13's.

jkcTN
01-03-2014, 04:55 PM
For some reason it just ruffles my feathers to hear MC keep saying on facebook that it is a software issue as to why they can't retrofit the 2013's.... This is unreal as they are using the same software as 2014s and half of the ones already built are using the old style tabs anyway! I would feel much better if they would just come on out and say no, we are not allowing retrofit just because we just don't want to... As for 2012 and down I completely understand as it is a different software system.... For the 2011 and 2012 models that are running the same hull as current models why not sell the tabs designated for that hull with a manual toggle switch? Let the customer evenly weight the boat with whatever weight they want to use manually... This will still fix the listing and allow going from each side to still be relatively painless. I feel that it would create the same wake if not better as the customer could install even larger sacs. I'm a big MC fan and very brand loyal... So at least give an option for one to add an accessory to a 100k boat.

Mastercraft13
01-03-2014, 05:18 PM
Mastercraft13,
Also, it is possible to get a close wake to the new Gen2 system with listing the boat, but unless everyone rides on one side the great thing is that the boat is so much more versatile. You can switch riders and wake sports within seconds.

I agree with you 100%, I was just giving everyone my feedback on what I have experienced personally with the boat. We don't switch sides and after dialing in some additional ballast to the boat I am able to have a comparable surf wake without the cost. Now for someone who does have riders who surf both sides and doesn't want to mess with people placement then this is the system for them all the way.

Now for everyone having the argument over the ability to retrofit pre 2014 models. My opinion on the matter is that it boils down to a supply and demand issue with the tabs. MC is probably saying NO at this time just because they have limited supply capabilities when it comes to the new tabs so they probably cannot meet the demand of boats being produced and as well as everyone with pre 2014's wanting to upgrade the tabs. I know my dealer upgraded my software to the 2014 version in my boat when it went into get winterized so I would assume if I threw some Gen 2 tabs on mine it would work. Now pre 2013's with a different set up I would say they could be installed in theory but you would have to manually use them around the system in place.

MattsCraft
01-03-2014, 05:38 PM
For some reason it just ruffles my feathers to hear MC keep saying on facebook that it is a software issue as to why they can't retrofit the 2013's.... This is unreal as they are using the same software as 2014s and half of the ones already built are using the old style tabs anyway! I would feel much better if they would just come on out and say no, we are not allowing retrofit just because we just don't want to... As for 2012 and down I completely understand as it is a different software system.... For the 2011 and 2012 models that are running the same hull as current models why not sell the tabs designated for that hull with a manual toggle switch? Let the customer evenly weight the boat with whatever weight they want to use manually... This will still fix the listing and allow going from each side to still be relatively painless. I feel that it would create the same wake if not better as the customer could install even larger sacs. I'm a big MC fan and very brand loyal... So at least give an option for one to add an accessory to a 100k boat.

Have to agree on this one... Like I said before for '13 up anyway, I see nothing in the software that is different. from '13 OK, now we are calling it "Gen 1" surf system, other than "MC now specified custom bags" (Sticks tongue in cheek) MSRP $500/bag - discounted to $300, real world price for a 600lb Sumo $150.

The current system allows me to set ballast and tab position for surf left and right etc. Unless there is a change to the throw length and or timing of the tab - I don't get it.

Come on MC, please tell us who/what/where has changed on the '13 Murphy to the '14 Murphy system not allowing for an upgrade.:mad:

Aric'sX15
01-03-2014, 06:49 PM
http://vimeo.com/79681082

This video shows the newish software on how you just slide from left to right. I can see the software issue, but at the same time zane is using the same button that came on my gen 1 '10.

MattsCraft
01-03-2014, 07:26 PM
http://vimeo.com/79681082

This video shows the newish software on how you just slide from left to right. I can see the software issue, but at the same time zane is using the same button that came on my gen 1 '10.

Sorry, not flaming you but you are wrong. Every '13 Murphy System has this functionality now.:D

MattsCraft
01-03-2014, 08:37 PM
Sorry, not flaming you but you are wrong. Every '13 Murphy System has this functionality now.:D

Go to 3:33 on this video - Sorry could not find the 2013 walk through by Norm, I think it was deleted.:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovIT_DKJ6S4&list=PLfQblA2O5pvoLnKhoEzprx6vGX-7nDTVn

MattsCraft
01-03-2014, 08:57 PM
On a roll searching old vids...

See Vid at about 3:46 - 2013 Transfers

Aric'sX15
01-03-2014, 09:01 PM
Sorry, not flaming you but you are wrong. Every '13 Murphy System has this functionality now.:D

I havent been in anything newer but my 2010. The video made it seem new!

Traxx822
01-03-2014, 10:33 PM
It looks like they put a whole lot of time and thought into this system. No sarcasm here. Each individual to specific hulls. Thats cool. Imagine the R&D. They said it has to be 1: Simple, 2: work, 3: FAST.

IMHO I think they did all 3.

Zane talked of new triple hard tanks under the floor. Is this new for '14? Could this, as well some software changes, be why MC claims retrofit on boats with gen1 won't work? Physics and all ....

Nick911
01-03-2014, 10:35 PM
My 2013 does that.

scott023
01-03-2014, 10:39 PM
It looks like they put a whole lot of time and thought into this system. No sarcasm here. Each individual to specific hulls. Thats cool. Imagine the R&D. They said it has to be 1: Simple, 2: work, 3: FAST.

IMHO I think they did all 3.

Zane talked of new triple hard tanks under the floor. Is this new for '14? Could this, as well some software changes, be why MC claims retrofit on boats with gen1 won't work? Physics and all ....

My '08 has triple hard tanks under the floor.

Traxx822
01-03-2014, 10:45 PM
Alright thanks. I don't have anew boat so I didn't know they were sub floor. As in almost inaccessible. Not in lockers but under the floor. I must have misunderstood what Zane was saying.

scott023
01-03-2014, 10:47 PM
Alright thanks. I don't have anew boat so I didn't know they were sub floor. As in almost inaccessible. Not in lockers but under the floor. I must have misunderstood what Zane was saying.

They're accessible, with a little work. ;)8p

Traxx822
01-03-2014, 10:51 PM
He fooled me. Acted like they were something new and special. Either way, as for the tabs themselves it looks like they put a lot of time into the tabs. My assumption for the drastic angles at the end is to add air to the wave thus creating more lift, or "push" as Zane incorrectly calls it, but you know what I mean. I think there is more brains in this than it appears.

lashburn1
01-03-2014, 11:11 PM
He fooled me. Acted like they were something new and special. Either way, as for the tabs themselves it looks like they put a lot of time into the tabs. My assumption for the drastic angles at the end is to add air to the wave thus creating more lift, or "push" as Zane incorrectly calls it, but you know what I mean. I think there is more brains in this than it appears.

PUSH...the feeling you get from the Wave....it is not incorrect to Say push...it is the logical sensation a rider gets from the wake...
The rider does not feel " Lift" ....
The mfg and others use these terms as the are most easily understood when explaining to an audience..

.....yes , we understand it is "Lift" that gets the Pushing done ....
:toast:

lashburn1
01-03-2014, 11:15 PM
For some reason it just ruffles my feathers to hear MC keep saying on facebook that it is a software issue as to why they can't retrofit the 2013's.... This is unreal as they are using the same software as 2014s and half of the ones already built are using the old style tabs anyway! I would feel much better if they would just come on out and say no, we are not allowing retrofit just because we just don't want to... As for 2012 and down I completely understand as it is a different software system.... For the 2011 and 2012 models that are running the same hull as current models why not sell the tabs designated for that hull with a manual toggle switch? Let the customer evenly weight the boat with whatever weight they want to use manually... This will still fix the listing and allow going from each side to still be relatively painless. I feel that it would create the same wake if not better as the customer could install even larger sacs. I'm a big MC fan and very brand loyal... So at least give an option for one to add an accessory to a 100k boat.

X2
Yup , not a believable story by any measure for a 2013 model

CantRepeat
01-03-2014, 11:29 PM
Well... some likers, some not likers. No Haters or Lovers here yet..... ( except Can't Repeats, who typically dislikes everything )

Looks good too me , no tricky Camera footage shots, should keep prospective buyers hopes in check upon Demo and purchase...

It is good that MASTERCRAFT did not hype this release.....it is no "Game Changer" it is simply a very nice Surf System.... Just what they needed.

Shaping the wave Can be an Art...moving and adding ballast, playing with Tabs etc..

But being able to push a button to get very nice Surf.... That's is appealing

Seems like we both agree. It's not a game changer it's just tabs with an average surf wave that can go from port to starboard quickly. Even at that you can see the starboard wave still suffers when weight evenly and using tabs.

My entire contention here is that they tabs really don't add the mass of the wave or add that much to the push. They can add in shaping the wave but that's about it.

If you are going for more push or mass to a wave the only way to do that is to displace more water by adding more weight. It's really pretty simple. With that fact in mind it's pointless to spend $1500+ tabs. There are better ways to spend that money if what you want is a better then average surf wave.

It's not Can't Repeats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxZuoH6RXlE

scott023
01-03-2014, 11:38 PM
Seems like we both agree. It's not a game changer it's just tabs with an average surf wave that can go from port to starboard quickly. Even at that you can see the starboard wave still suffers when weight evenly and using tabs.

My entire contention here is that they tabs really don't add the mass of the wave or add that much to the push. They can add in shaping the wave but that's about it.

If you are going for more push or mass to a wave the only way to do that is to displace more water by adding more weight. It's really pretty simple. With that fact in mind it's pointless to spend $1500+ tabs. There are better ways to spend that money if what you want is a better then average surf wave.

It's not Can't Repeats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxZuoH6RXlE

I age that there are better ways to spend 1500 to get a great surf wake.

Traxx822
01-03-2014, 11:40 PM
PUSH...the feeling you get from the Wave....it is not incorrect to Say push...it is the logical sensation a rider gets from the wake...
The rider does not feel " Lift" ....
The mfg and others use these terms as the are most easily understood when explaining to an audience..

.....yes , we understand it is "Lift" that gets the Pushing done ....
:toast:


Right. So about those air bubbles. Should I have called them agitators? :cool:

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 07:43 AM
If the shaping turns the wave height into wave length and keeps the lift, then in theory, it increases the usable 'pocket' ... That's where I think shaping really starts to add incremental value.

If they are 1500.00 including actuators, switches, control modules, installation and they are 10 gauge stainless steel... That's a steal ( pun intended).

Below link for heavy duty tabs. I don't mind paying for R + D, integration and custom cut tabs ... Suspect the MC kit would be 2-3000 + install based on fair market value. Retail option likely closer to 5-6k, especially when tied into the touch screen.

In my case, I actually don't want to integrate into the touch screen of my 2012. If I could use the existing switch, great, if not - still not a big deal. I'd be a little surprised if the existing manual switch can't be used.

http://www.iboats.com/Lenco-Extreme-Duty-Performance-Trim-Tab-Kit/dm/cart_id.327101456--session_id.129978281--view_id.716509

Edit: see wiring diagram of 2012's here:

http://www.mastercraft.com/assets/manual/6.pdf

CantRepeat
01-04-2014, 10:47 AM
If that is the case, 5k+ then I really can't see value in it.

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 01:29 PM
Yeah, that's retail pricing on factory options list... Remember, those option prices are a little high (grin).

Could include some bags... I'm just making some big assumptions and kicking some numbers around.

Maybe buying the retro from dealer, if they installed it for 3 or 4ish then that would be closer to the competitors price...

But 1500 doesn't touch the online prices of basic heavy duty tabs... Some online tabs are 4-500 for a pair with a switch, I wouldn't compare them to this...because the Gen2's come with a 5 year warranty and it's a completely custom solution.

MC replaced my AA plate actuator under warranty this year so there is value in it.

Hate to use this line, but it fits ...

Value is in the eye of the beholder!

;-)

andy@midwestmastercraft
01-04-2014, 01:36 PM
In response to adding the new Gen 2 surf system to a 2013, the problem relates more to the stereo and possibly some of the other items controlled by the touch screen than the ability to control the wake shaping devices.

If you put Gen 2 devices on a 2013 and updated to 2014 software, the Surf System would probably work. (We have not tried.)

That said, the 2014 software would create a host of other issues with the touch screen. The 2013's had Clarion audio and 2014's have Fusion. There might also be additional problems model to model or even by option created by 2014 software in a 2013.

MasterCraft does not want to say it is possible for a wide variety of very justified reasons.

Can it be done? Maybe. But the stereo is a big issue and there may be more problems that would not appear until after attempting to run an "updated" boat.

With today's electronically controlled boats it is not as simple as it used to be to just bolt parts on.

For the record, you can not put the Supra Swell System on a 2013 Supra or Surf Gate on a 2012 Malibu due to similar concerns. You could update a CC but they have not changed hardly anything in their software since 2009. The manufacturers did not make these systems backward compatible because they wanted to inconvenience owners. They have not offered it because it is a sizable engineering and validation issue that would be impossible to recoup the costs of.

The Gen 2 System works awesome by the way! It is true that many MC's can make great surf wakes by adding ballast without the devices but the integration makes it much easier to shape and adjust side to side. Seems like there is always a goofy foot rider in the group. The boat is much more "tuneable" with the system no matter how you weight the boat.

Astepatatime
01-04-2014, 01:50 PM
In response to adding the new Gen 2 surf system to a 2013, the problem relates more to the stereo and possibly some of the other items controlled by the touch screen than the ability to control the wake shaping devices.

If you put Gen 2 devices on a 2013 and updated to 2014 software, the tabs would probably work.

That said, the 2014 software would create a host of other issues. The 2013's had Clarion audio and 2014's have Fusion. There might also be additional problems model to model or option created by 2014 software in a 2013.

MasterCraft does not want to say it is possible for a wide variety of very justified reasons.

Can it be done? Maybe. But the stereo is a big issue and there may be more problems.

Thanks for the info - makes sense. However, software is....uh...software. In other words, it's changeable. I would think MC could, if they wanted to, have the software vendor (Murphy?) program a version of the SW for the 13s that works on the Gen 2. Then when you did the upgrade of the hardware, you'd install a new SW version also.

So I get that it might not work with the current rev of software, but if they wanted to, they could provide a solution.

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 01:56 PM
Key is to stop trying to integrate with the touch screen, a manual switch would be more than enough. But maybe there are other issues, such as asymmetrically deploying the tabs with a symmetrical switch.

Edit: my pov is that of someone that doesn't have tabs today... The manual switch would negate the auto-level and auto-launch (aa plate would still help and work) ... And that's ok by me.

For others with the current generation of tabs, they would have to manually level using the switch and rely on the AA plate for auto-launch.

Aric'sX15
01-04-2014, 01:59 PM
Tabs and stereo have no correlation, sorry. You dont need any software to bolt on different tabs. Just say for a marketing standpoint mc wants you to buy a new boat. We arent stupid.... lol

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 02:17 PM
It is the new features that this gen brings, please correct me if I'm wrong, but there are new slide touch controls on the touch screen to transfer from one side to the other.

These software builds have the functionality to draw the graphical user interface (GUI) screens, and there would have been different screens for the old clarion than the new one. So if you update you would overwrite the clarion controls and wouldn't be able to control the stereo! But you would be able to switch sides.

It is the recoding to draw the stereo control screens for clarion, testing that and then having two software builds for the dealers, then training the dealers how to upgrade....and the list goes on.

That is precisely why the software quality control has to be good for these boats to function...

Then I'd add the ballast mangement GUI may need to be touched up, perhaps they added some engine controls in 2014 to be able to offer the 5-year warranty...

Aric'sX15
01-04-2014, 02:23 PM
It is the new features that this gen brings, please correct me if I'm wrong, but there are new slide touch controls on the touch screen to transfer from one side to the other.

These software builds have the functionality to draw the graphical user interface (GUI) screens, and there would have been different screens for the old clarion than the new one. So if you update you would overwrite the clarion controls and wouldn't be able to control the stereo! But you would be able to switch sides.

It is the recoding to draw the stereo control screens for clarion, testing that and then having two software builds for the dealers, then training the dealers how to upgrade....and the list goes on.

That is precisely why the software quality control has to be good for these boats to function...

Then I'd add the ballast mangement GUI may need to be touched up, perhaps they added some engine controls in 2014 to be able to offer the 5-year warranty...

I was corrected already on that, the 2013s you can slide side to side.

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 02:43 PM
Small edits:

Thanks for the correction... Then the features (software updates) could be to adjust for the gen2 actuators that have a different stroke distance than that of the 13's. The point still stands on the stereo controls that add to the complexity.

Or connect to a new control box for the 14's actuators.

I wonder if it is just the tabs shape that are asymmetric or if they actually deploy the tabs to different distances depending on the surf side (or both).

Also wonder if it is a different software load for each model because each model is custom...different stroke distances...

FourFourty
01-04-2014, 03:19 PM
Yeah, that's retail pricing on factory options list... Remember, those option prices are a little high (grin).


Where did you get the that figure from??

Being as they are not releasing for the XStar till MY2015, I started boat shopping again, and the MSRP for Gen2 surf was listed at $2600 for the complete system. Tabs, PNP, and bags..... With an MSRP of $2600, that's, what, about 2k actual option cost...... Where are you getting the 5k from??

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 03:43 PM
As I said, kicking with big assumptions around based on prices of tabs... 2600 that's a decent price with bags.

FourFourty
01-04-2014, 05:11 PM
As I said, kicking with big assumptions around based on prices of tabs... 2600 that's a decent price with bags.

Gotcha..... Thought you were quoted that.....

I didn't think it was too bad, considering gen 1 surf tabs were $2300....

mplv
01-04-2014, 06:39 PM
3950 msrp on the 46

FourFourty
01-04-2014, 06:51 PM
3950 msrp on the 46

I was quoting a 46 as well...... Did you have pro package selected? Just curious why the difference on specs. If you don't select pro pack, it is more because of it adding touchscreen....

Sammy5222
01-04-2014, 06:57 PM
I am a new MC owner and bought my 2013 X10 with the pro package about 5 months ago. My boat has the Clarion stereo in it and it does not work with the touch screen. The dealer told me the touchscreen only works with the Fusion stereo. So unless my dealer is incorrect then I don't see how an upgrade would cause any issues with the stereo that doesn't work with the system anyway.

Nick911
01-04-2014, 07:11 PM
On my 2013 I don't think the touch screen controls the stereo at all? Correct me if I'm wrong, I just always used the Clarion remote to control it.

MattsCraft
01-04-2014, 07:20 PM
In response to adding the new Gen 2 surf system to a 2013, the problem relates more to the stereo and possibly some of the other items controlled by the touch screen than the ability to control the wake shaping devices.

If you put Gen 2 devices on a 2013 and updated to 2014 software, the Surf System would probably work. (We have not tried.)

That said, the 2014 software would create a host of other issues with the touch screen. The 2013's had Clarion audio and 2014's have Fusion. There might also be additional problems model to model or even by option created by 2014 software in a 2013.

MasterCraft does not want to say it is possible for a wide variety of very justified reasons.

Can it be done? Maybe. But the stereo is a big issue and there may be more problems that would not appear until after attempting to run an "updated" boat.

With today's electronically controlled boats it is not as simple as it used to be to just bolt parts on.

For the record, you can not put the Supra Swell System on a 2013 Supra or Surf Gate on a 2012 Malibu due to similar concerns. You could update a CC but they have not changed hardly anything in their software since 2009. The manufacturers did not make these systems backward compatible because they wanted to inconvenience owners. They have not offered it because it is a sizable engineering and validation issue that would be impossible to recoup the costs of.

The Gen 2 System works awesome by the way! It is true that many MC's can make great surf wakes by adding ballast without the devices but the integration makes it much easier to shape and adjust side to side. Seems like there is always a goofy foot rider in the group. The boat is much more "tuneable" with the system no matter how you weight the boat.

Thanks for your input, however I don't see why you would need to update the software??? 2013 version already has Tab control, only dif is the Tab itself and how your are weighting the boat (even), plus specific bags/tabs by boat (which is currently 2013 capable) I have what I think is the best bag overflow set up already for my boat. 2013 version does not support the stereo at all as it is.

In addition, with what you mention with regard to "Fusion" you could upgrade the clarion unit and remotes and then you have a 2014???

Aric'sX15
01-04-2014, 08:30 PM
Its a marketing scheme. Go buy a new boat! Thats what they want! Lol

CantRepeat
01-04-2014, 10:25 PM
Tabs and stereo have no correlation, sorry. You dont need any software to bolt on different tabs. Just say for a marketing standpoint mc wants you to buy a new boat. We arent stupid.... lol

I think you might be wrong here.

The software for the touch screen has integrated controls for the stereo and the tabs. The stereo system has changed from 2013 to 2014 so there is no way the new software will be able to control the old stereo in the touch screen.

Sure you can add a completely mechanical tab system to the older boats without changing the software but that may not be anything MC wants to get involved with. It will be an after market build.

Nick911
01-04-2014, 10:39 PM
I don't recall an audio function...

atthelake
01-04-2014, 11:19 PM
They are in the boat selling business.

KahunaCraft
01-04-2014, 11:47 PM
104559

looks like there is some audio GUI controls from this pic...also an audio button tied into the system...

scott023
01-04-2014, 11:52 PM
They are in the boat selling business.

That's exactly right!

Stefan
01-05-2014, 12:00 AM
No idea what the differentiating software functions should be, mplv will probably know first, but listing the evenly weighted boat from one side to the other within seconds is no problem with any newer boat with tab switches...

sand2snow22
01-05-2014, 01:17 AM
All you need is a 2014 HIN, get the tabs and actuators from MC or your favorite dealer, run to these indicator switches mounted under the throttle:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenco-Marine-LED-Indicator-Tactile-Switch-KIT-With-Retractor-LEN-15070-001-/121084441219?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item1c3131f283&vxp=mtr

which get power and ground from bars under the dash and splice into ignition. Done. Now you have Gen 2 for your MC.

scott023
01-05-2014, 02:43 AM
All you need is a 2014 HIN, get the tabs and actuators from MC or your favorite dealer, run to these indicator switches mounted under the throttle:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenco-Marine-LED-Indicator-Tactile-Switch-KIT-With-Retractor-LEN-15070-001-/121084441219?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item1c3131f283&vxp=mtr

which get power and ground from bars under the dash and splice into ignition. Done. Now you have Gen 2 for your MC.

Sounds like the ticket right there. Thanks Bryan.

pap
01-05-2014, 03:58 AM
The 2013 doesn't even freaking control the audio anyway. Stock from factory radio and it has no integration, It's an embarrassment to anyone who's ever done software design.

bturner2
01-05-2014, 08:53 AM
I keep looking at adding tabs to my 07 X2 but every time I read one of these threads there is always confusion or less than a consensus as to how much they actually add to the wake quality.

That and after pointing out all the tabs on a newer boat at a boat show she pretty much nixed the deal stating that she would be afraid someone would cut themselves on them getting in the boat somehow. I probably should have just installed them and told her later...... :(

lashburn1
01-05-2014, 10:40 AM
Go to 3:33 on this video - Sorry could not find the 2013 walk through by Norm, I think it was deleted.:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovIT_DKJ6S4&list=PLfQblA2O5pvoLnKhoEzprx6vGX-7nDTVn

I am a new MC owner and bought my 2013 X10 with the pro package about 5 months ago. My boat has the Clarion stereo in it and it does not work with the touch screen. The dealer told me the touchscreen only works with the Fusion stereo. So unless my dealer is incorrect then I don't see how an upgrade would cause any issues with the stereo that doesn't work with the system anyway.

x2 ^ for me

FourFourty
01-05-2014, 10:46 AM
The 2013 doesn't even freaking control the audio anyway. Stock from factory radio and it has no integration, It's an embarrassment to anyone who's ever done software design.

:confused:

My 2013 controls the audio from the touch screen.....

lashburn1
01-05-2014, 10:52 AM
:confused:

My 2013 controls the audio from the touch screen.....

You have Fusion head? Or Clarion head?

CantRepeat
01-05-2014, 11:09 AM
You have Fusion head? Or Clarion head?

I don't think Fusion was an option in 2013.

scott023
01-05-2014, 11:14 AM
I don't think Fusion was an option in 2013.

I didn't think it was either.

FourFourty
01-05-2014, 11:34 AM
You have Fusion head? Or Clarion head?

Clarion..... Must be XStar is the only 13 that does.... I would have actually preferred it to have an independant control.

bturner2
01-05-2014, 12:03 PM
Not really sure I'd want the stereo integrated into the boat computer system. I'm also I guess one of the few that don't want the single control point for all the systems. Someday these boats are going to be 10, 15 and 20 years old and I'm going to guess that the parts are not going to be readily available. Stuff breaks and sh** happens. I've got a feeling there are going to be challenges keeping these systems going in the future and it isn't going to be cheap.

Integrated typically means "locked in" the same way proprietary does. Upgrades and repairs are typically difficult to diagnose and expensive. One only need look at this example to see the future of upgrading or maintaining these systems. A simple upgrade of adding these tabs to a boat one year out of production is "not supported". Wonderful, some real foresight there.

501s
01-05-2014, 12:09 PM
I remember when I picked up my 2013, the guy going through the boat with me told me that there would be new audio head units that integrate with the touchscreen (before fusion was officially announced) and that I would have the option to upgrade to it. Its not an upgrade I want, but I do want to upgrade to the new Tabs.

Mastercraft13
01-05-2014, 12:20 PM
Not really sure I'd want the stereo integrated into the boat computer system. I'm also I guess one of the few that don't want the single control point for all the systems. Someday these boats are going to be 10, 15 and 20 years old and I'm going to guess that the parts are not going to be readily available. Stuff breaks and sh** happens. I've got a feeling there are going to be challenges keeping these systems going in the future and it isn't going to be cheap.

Integrated typically means "locked in" the same way proprietary does. Upgrades and repairs are typically difficult to diagnose and expensive. One only need look at this example to see the future of upgrading or maintaining these systems. A simple upgrade of adding these tabs to a boat one year out of production is "not supported". Wonderful, some real foresight there.

^X2 on that one, don't get me wrong I absolutely LOVE my boat but at the same time scared how all the electronics will be down the road. Electronics hate water so we will just have to wait and see.

scott023
01-05-2014, 01:06 PM
^X2 on that one, don't get me wrong I absolutely LOVE my boat but at the same time scared how all the electronics will be down the road. Electronics hate water so we will just have to wait and see.

X3. I like my manual controls.

pap
01-05-2014, 02:30 PM
Personally I'd LOVE to have all manual controls, but my point is that my brand new 100K+ boat from MC came with factory stereo, and factory screens on the touch panel system that adjust audio (like volume adjustment, a potentially useful feature) and they totally do not work.

As I said, that is just piss-poor product design.

CantRepeat
01-05-2014, 03:21 PM
Personally I'd LOVE to have all manual controls, but my point is that my brand new 100K+ boat from MC came with factory stereo, and factory screens on the touch panel system that adjust audio (like volume adjustment, a potentially useful feature) and they totally do not work.

As I said, that is just piss-poor product design.

I would suggest you get with your dealer on that. It seems that everyone else with a 2013 is not having that issue. Maybe there is a software update??

Nick911
01-05-2014, 04:07 PM
I was told when I took delivery that audio controls are not programmed to the Touchscreen. This was for future use they told me. This is fine as is rather use the Clarion remote. The audio function on the 2012 touch screen was a pain anyways.

Nick911
01-05-2014, 04:08 PM
If this system is not readily retrofittable I may not pursue it anyways. The reality is we surf with much more that stock. I don't see how the side to side functionality will really add as I still have to load/empty the port and starboard coffin bags...

CantRepeat
01-05-2014, 04:15 PM
Well, clearly, if the custom bent tabs are made available then the system could be installed on any boat. Who knows what kind of licensing MC has with the tab manufacture. Maybe they are exclusive to MC and you'll have to buy the tabs from a dealer.

bturner2
01-05-2014, 05:53 PM
Or great lakes skipper in a year or two.

lashburn1
01-05-2014, 09:45 PM
Not really sure I'd want the stereo integrated into the boat computer system. I'm also I guess one of the few that don't want the single control point for all the systems. Someday these boats are going to be 10, 15 and 20 years old and I'm going to guess that the parts are not going to be readily available. Stuff breaks and sh** happens. I've got a feeling there are going to be challenges keeping these systems going in the future and it isn't going to be cheap.

Integrated typically means "locked in" the same way proprietary does. Upgrades and repairs are typically difficult to diagnose and expensive. One only need look at this example to see the future of upgrading or maintaining these systems. A simple upgrade of adding these tabs to a boat one year out of production is "not supported". Wonderful, some real foresight there.

the company that makes these for MasterCraft has been around for the a while....this won't be the 1st or last company that needs support for a touch screen computer from them that is old...
When and if the System gets old and broken, you would like get an upgrade unit from them that is compatible with the existing unit.....computers WILL make there way in to all boats...
Just hope MC is around when my unit dies....lol