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kgrove
11-24-2013, 03:19 PM
2011 X-25. Does anyone know if you can add tracking fins? I've seen it listed as an option on 2012 x-25s but I don't know if it can only be installed at the factory or if it can be popped into older boats. I've heard they make a noticeable difference.

snork
11-24-2013, 07:43 PM
better off trading for a X25 with fins

CantRepeat
11-24-2013, 07:49 PM
better off trading for a X25 with fins

I agree. It's not work ripping into the bottom boat.

AlbertaSurfer
11-24-2013, 07:56 PM
Does your hull have flat spots where the fins should be?

Cloaked
11-24-2013, 08:26 PM
. I've heard they make a noticeable difference.With regards to what comparable characteristic?

CantRepeat
11-24-2013, 09:09 PM
With regards to what comparable characteristic?

You know, tracking straight when you are plugging way with 4500lbs of ballast and hitting the killer set of double ups while wakeboarding!! **** is epic!!! :D

Nick911
11-24-2013, 09:51 PM
I had a 2012 X25 without and 2013 with, no difference that I noted.

kgrove
11-25-2013, 12:37 AM
I had a 2012 X25 without and 2013 with, no difference that I noted.

Hmmm… Others have experience with both with and without tracking fins?

I asked because I read a thread some months back indicating the X25 held speed in turns much better with fins than without. If others agree there is minimal difference, then the answer about whether fins can be easily added is irrelevant.

Cloaked
11-25-2013, 04:19 PM
Hmmm… Others have experience with both with and without tracking fins?

I asked because I read a thread some months back indicating the X25 held speed in turns much better with fins than without. If others agree there is minimal difference, then the answer about whether fins can be easily added is irrelevant.It would be my contention that they do not turn. in any tracking manner. They rotate on a blob of an axis at some 20 MPH +/-.... however everything is relative..... Don't lose any sleep over your tracking capability.

I'd like to read the thread you reference. Link? :)

.

Aric'sX15
11-25-2013, 04:32 PM
I went from a boat with to a boat without. Unfortunately they were two completely different boat's, so I cant reference too much. But, I have been in a 24 mxz malibu with fins and it did power turns like a ski boat!

madcityskier
11-25-2013, 04:40 PM
I will contend uh you've never done a power turn in s stars and stripes then. Based on the Malibu's I've been in, it's not even close.

kgrove
11-25-2013, 05:22 PM
I'd like to read the thread you reference. Link? :)


No link, but if you want to search I vaguely remember it being a thread here 4-8 months back discussing engine choice for the X25... or maybe it was an X25 vs X30 discussion. I recall the tracking fins are or were standard features with one of the engine upgrades and one of the posts noted that it made a dramatic difference in handling.

cbryan70
11-25-2013, 05:26 PM
I will contend uh you've never done a power turn in s stars and stripes then. Based on the Malibu's I've been in, it's not even close.

Was thinking the same thing

Aric'sX15
11-25-2013, 05:27 PM
It had the corvette motor and it was a 24 footer. Needless to say I was Impressed. Lol. I haven't been in a 190 or any ski boat since like 97, so my impressed-ness might be irrelevant. Lol

Snipe
11-25-2013, 05:57 PM
I have a 1998 Prostar 190 with the 5.7 EFI and have a 4 tracking fin set up. It is the most stable and especially smooth on turns ever. Just my two cents worth because many have commented on the ride on this boat. Hope I didn't step on any toes.....

Aric'sX15
11-25-2013, 06:14 PM
We're also talking about boats that weigh 3 times your little 19 footers weigh..... Lol

cbryan70
11-25-2013, 06:16 PM
Yes and you said it did power turns like a ski boat.....

Aric'sX15
11-25-2013, 06:20 PM
I also said it wasn't a ski boat. it was a massive 24 footer. I always get an lol out of some of the skiers on here!

501s
11-25-2013, 06:40 PM
I also said it wasn't a ski boat. it was a massive 24 footer. I always get an lol out of some of the skiers on here!

This ^

He said "like a ski boat", not "as good as an 85 Stars and Stripes" lol.

FWIW my X30 has the fins and can power turn like no body's business but I only do that at the request of the kids when there is no glass to ruin for riding.

jradasaurus
11-25-2013, 07:42 PM
...

FWIW my X30 has the fins and can power turn like no body's business but I only do that at the request of the kids when there is no glass to ruin for riding.


Power turning an x30... I wonder if my star can do that. :cool: How fast?

Jerseydave
11-25-2013, 08:24 PM
Different hulls, but I went from an '03 Maristar 230 to an '05 X-star and the turning radius is much better with the star. The 230 has more of a V-bottom which hurts turning ability but the lack of tracking fins made the biggest difference IMHO. Without the center fins for the hull to rotate on, it just slides into turns like a big jet boat.

The OP needs to crawl under and see if there are provisions for fins (flat areas) as someone already stated.

ProTour-X9
11-25-2013, 09:06 PM
It had the corvette motor and it was a 24 footer. Needless to say I was Impressed. Lol. I haven't been in a 190 or any ski boat since like 97, so my impressed-ness might be irrelevant. Lol

I've been in the same setup, surprisingly sharp turning but not a powerslide.

madcityskier
11-26-2013, 01:13 AM
I also said it wasn't a ski boat. it was a massive 24 footer. I always get an lol out of some of the skiers on here!

By this reasoning my S&S can throw a surf wake like a wakeboard boat (only not at all).

Snipe
11-26-2013, 07:42 AM
We're also talking about boats that weigh 3 times your little 19 footers weigh..... Lol

Excuse me for posting..........Some of us are very happy with our little 19 footers

CantRepeat
11-26-2013, 07:47 AM
wow, TT meet wakeworld.

dt37803
11-26-2013, 07:51 AM
It seems nobody answered the original question. I inquired with my dealer about adding them and was told they were through bolted and would require removing tank to access the hull for proper installation. Would this be true?

madcityskier
11-26-2013, 08:18 AM
Yes. But the inquiry about the flat spot where they would mount would be the first indication of if it is even possible.

Mastercraft13
11-26-2013, 09:08 AM
Yes. But the inquiry about the flat spot where they would mount would be the first indication of if it is even possible.

I have a 13' X10 with the pro package so I have the tracking fins. Mine does not actually have a flat spot where the fins are mounted, the base of the fin is actually contoured to the shape of the hull.

Aric'sX15
11-26-2013, 09:55 AM
By this reasoning my S&S can throw a surf wake like a wakeboard boat (only not at all).

Honest question, have you done a power turn at about 30 mph in a 24mxz malibu? Chances are slim. So yes, without experience your argument is pure speculation and no actual knowledge is being applied. Sure it doesnt power turn like an 85 s&s, but it also is 5 feet longer, 3 timea heavier and not purpose built for super hard turns. So I would be far less impressed wiyh your boats power turns because its expected.

Isnt there a thread around here for you skiers to talk about you guys owning all glassy water and everyone else should get the heck out? You should probably go talk about how elite your boats are over there ;)

madcityskier
11-26-2013, 09:56 AM
In that case you're beyond me. The older fins had a flat base, so the spot on the hull had o be there. In this case you'd have to find out if the area is reinforced for the fins automatically, or if they do it to models they intend to add fins to. If you're asking the dealer to do the work, finding out would be part of earning their pay, imho. If you want to do it yourself, I would say it's up to you. You could still see someone with this particular knowledge post here, but more likely it would be time to start trying to contact the factory. Again, just my opinion, I'm often wrong.

mikeg205
11-26-2013, 10:16 AM
Honest question, have you done a power turn at about 30 mph in a 24mxz malibu? Chances are slim. So yes, without experience your argument is pure speculation and no actual knowledge is being applied. Sure it doesnt power turn like an 85 s&s, but it also is 5 feet longer, 3 timea heavier and not purpose built for super hard turns. So I would be far less impressed wiyh your boats power turns because its expected.

Isnt there a thread around here for you skiers to talk about you guys owning all glassy water and everyone else should get the heck out? You should probably go talk about how elite your boats are over there ;)

Hey I resemble that remark... We changed are tune BTW - need to wake up early and OWN the water... ;) :D just sayin'

mikeg205
11-26-2013, 10:21 AM
It seems nobody answered the original question. I inquired with my dealer about adding them and was told they were through bolted and would require removing tank to access the hull for proper installation. Would this be true?

I wouldn't waste the money unless your going to be training in a slalom course... tracking fins designed to keep boat tracking correctly while travelling thru course -- unless your rider is dragging boat around on hard turns - It's a waste.. IMO...

Hull can be reinforced - but you would need some good access....

On the other hand - if you have the cash and want it - go for it... just make sure it's done by someone who really knows what they are doing.

Our Prostars have a lot of flat hull so the fins are really needed to track and provide a butter smooth wake at slalom speeds.

madcityskier
11-26-2013, 10:23 AM
I've been in several Malibu ski specific boats. They all perform very well, but will not spin like mine. If you want to tell me a 24' boat in their line turns better, BS. I didn't start with a false statement, you did. Face it, there's no way that boat turns like a dd slalom boat, but you wanted to claim it did tiil we started telling you you're mistaken. I'm not feeling in any way superior, different boats are designed to do different things. But you seem to be spoiling for a fight. Maybe stick to wakeworld? You'll fit right in there.

BudmanV24
11-26-2013, 10:24 AM
I will contend uh you've never done a power turn in s stars and stripes then. Based on the Malibu's I've been in, it's not even close.

I will contend that you've never done a power turn in a Sevylor Caravelle 7' 6" then. Baby's got zero turning radius. All I've got to do is push one paddle forewards and the other backwards. I can power turn in my own pool!

madcityskier
11-26-2013, 10:30 AM
Never have, but sounds like a blast. Got video? I'd love to see it, though I wouldn't call that a comparable either.

Aric'sX15
11-26-2013, 10:44 AM
Buds Caravelle is so sick

Hammer
11-26-2013, 10:46 AM
Never have, but sounds like a blast. Got video? I'd love to see it, though I wouldn't call that a comparable either.

Waiting!:cool:

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Aric'sX15
11-26-2013, 10:53 AM
Ask and you shall receive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNesa4wjZmk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

rtw_travel
11-26-2013, 11:02 AM
It seems nobody answered the original question. I inquired with my dealer about adding them and was told they were through bolted and would require removing tank to access the hull for proper installation. Would this be true?

From what I've learned ordering and watching my '14 get built this year:
1) all pro packages in 2014 include tracking fins; and
2) the mold for a line of boats is the same whether a fin is installed or not.

So what your dealer said makes sense to me. 'Through bolted' would be required for strength, but the gas tank is in the way. If it is the mounting spot is not flat, then I assume MC must also make a fin (or an adapter) that fits the contour, because they don't change the molds just to be able to add tracking fins to a pro package version of a boat.

BudmanV24
11-26-2013, 11:03 AM
Waiting!:cool:

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Sorry, but it's already winterized. We're in the process of upgrading the stereo and adding LEDs (in cabin and under water).

On a side note does anyone have experience installing underwater LEDs on one of these? I assume I just take a hole saw to the transom?

mikeg205
11-26-2013, 11:32 AM
From what I've learned ordering and watching my '14 get built this year:
1) all pro packages in 2014 include tracking fins; and
2) the mold for a line of boats is the same whether a fin is installed or not.

So what your dealer said makes sense to me. 'Through bolted' would be required for strength, but the gas tank is in the way. If it is the mounting spot is not flat, then I assume MC must also make a fin (or an adapter) that fits the contour, because they don't change the molds just to be able to add tracking fins to a pro package version of a boat.

Best thing about track fins is protecting the prop when not running a course.. ;) - shatter floaters before they make it to the prop - many times... ;)

501s
11-26-2013, 11:38 AM
I've been in several Malibu ski specific boats. They all perform very well, but will not spin like mine. If you want to tell me a 24' boat in their line turns better, BS. I didn't start with a false statement, you did. Face it, there's no way that boat turns like a dd slalom boat, but you wanted to claim it did tiil we started telling you you're mistaken. I'm not feeling in any way superior, different boats are designed to do different things. But you seem to be spoiling for a fight. Maybe stick to wakeworld? You'll fit right in there.

All he said was "it turns LIKE a ski boat". Not better than your 85 S and S or better than any Malibu ski boat. He was just making a point about the tracking fins helping the boat turn tighter even on a 24 foot boat. Seems like you are sure getting defensive about your boat and you are the one telling him to go to WW to argue more?

mikeg205
11-26-2013, 11:47 AM
nothing like some spirited debate... ;) - we are entering the high point of ski withdrawal about now... ;)

madcityskier
11-26-2013, 12:05 PM
Heck, there are boats that turn much better than mine. If I didn't grow up with it I probably wouldn't have one. I understand that my boat has a very limited market. But that claim was silly.

Aric'sX15
11-26-2013, 12:10 PM
i don't see how its a silly claim????????? "LIKE A SKI BOAT" is not saying it turns better than yours. it's tight turning characteristics relate to those of a ski boat. Did i say " it turns better than a ski boat? did i say it was a ski boat? no. lol. you're so defensive over a simile.

Waterskibum
11-26-2013, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't waste the money unless your going to be training in a slalom course... tracking fins designed to keep boat tracking correctly while travelling thru course -- unless your rider is dragging boat around on hard turns - It's a waste.. IMO...

Hull can be reinforced - but you would need some good access....

On the other hand - if you have the cash and want it - go for it... just make sure it's done by someone who really knows what they are doing.

Our Prostars have a lot of flat hull so the fins are really needed to track and provide a butter smooth wake at slalom speeds.

While I find this thread somewhat hilarious, Mike G. has answered the question very well. I doubt anyone in their right mind is going to run a slalom course in a big ol' X Series. I could imagine running like 28 off at 34 mph behind my buddy's X Star. Pure suicide 8p

Nordicron
11-26-2013, 12:30 PM
I demoed both a x-25 without fins and a MXZ about a month ago that comes standard with fins and the MXZ turned much better than the x-25. Not saying the x-25 couldn't make a hard turn because it did but it did require more area and leaned over quite dramatically and you could feel that it didn't bite in and turn like other boats with fins do that I'm used too. Also with that test it confirmed for me that if the deal was there and I liked the boat having fins or not wouldn't kill the deal for me...

mikeg205
11-26-2013, 12:40 PM
maybe be OP is trying to avoid this... just sayin' - I know it's not an MC ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQpq1_pfIgk

Waterskibum
11-26-2013, 12:43 PM
maybe be OP is trying to avoid this... just sayin' - I know it's not an MC ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQpq1_pfIgk

Ouch! If I am not mistaken that was a Fountain 38'. I am going to guess he did not have his trim tabs adjusted correctly. Gotta love go fast boats.

Aric'sX15
11-26-2013, 12:45 PM
bahahaha i forgot about that video!!

mikeg205
11-26-2013, 12:45 PM
Ouch! If I am not mistaken that was a Fountain 38'. I am going to guess he did not have his trim tabs adjusted correctly. Gotta love go fast boats.

Yes correct...

MattsCraft
11-26-2013, 01:33 PM
Ok, so I am late to this party, my real world experience on the subject.

First purchased/owned by me boat '04 Cobalt - Well what can you say, it's an I/O and turns like one - No tracking Fins - LOL

First purchased/owned Inboard '09 MC X2 - Man this boat turns like it is on rails, can kinda do a power turn, well enough of a hard turn to throw people from their seats. (Just ask my sister or WillyT) No tracking Fins - LOL

Ride in 93Prostar190's 214 DD - Wholly S&**, now that is what a power turn is all about. Has tracking fins LOL. Also, glad the ski pylon was there for me to grab as I launched out of the observer seat, and glad it was my hand that caught it and not my face. (Thanks for the warning Rob.):D

My now boat - '13 X25 with a 6.2 Ilmor - Power Turns like a pig, pretty much as good as the Cobalt - Has tracking fins.

I know they are very different hulls, however from the X2 to the X25 what I have noticed about the tracking fins is this - X2 when running in a straight line would easily settle in and track pretty straight. Granted I am sure it was pushing a bit to one side or the other depending on how it was weighted. (People Etc.) On the X25 with the fins, what I notice is the boat wants to kind of dip to one side or the other with a slight movement of the wheel. Meaning it will catch or easily dip right or left. This is based on no ballast or rider, just cruising at 20-25. Put the hammer down and run at 30-40 and this is very much noticeable, with the slightest wheel movement the boat is turning. - I find it to be bit of an aggravation, my son hates it and felt more comfortable with a washier response on my I/O or X2. The boat certainly will not grab or power turn, however quick adjustments are just that, quick.

The advantage I think is when weighted and pulling a rider, again certainly a much heavier boat than the the 2, however the rider does not pull this boat during cuts and is easier to keep a nice straight line/pull for the riders benefit.

For me on the 25, if the boat does not have the fins from the factory, I don't think it is enough benefit on the X25 to add them.

501s
11-26-2013, 02:49 PM
^^^ Solid advice right there.