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m5guy
11-14-2013, 06:44 PM
What a great problem to have! My current tow vehicle for our 2013 X55 is off lease - it's a 2012 Sierra Denali half ton. It has done a commendable job pulling nearly 8,000 pounds of boat, trailer and gear around this past summer. We made a few long highway trips up north to Crystal Lake and Torch Lake and it definitely worked hard holding 70+ up the hills - but did a decent job. It's time for her to move on to a new house.

I'm not a fan of either the Ford or Ram trucks - we've driven both and they're not in the cards - personal preference.

The new redesigned 1/2 ton Sierra's are now starting to ship in the Denali package. Basically the same drive train as my old Denali with a bit more HP and more than a bit more torque. I imagine this truck will do as well, if not better, than the vehicle it replaces.

...however, this spring the redesigned 2500HD's are being delivered - with the same Duramax Diesel power train (~400HP / 765ft/lb Torque). I have a short term vehicle option to get me through to the release of the new HD should I want to wait for the spring option.

I only use the truck to pull the boat in the summers and to haul miscellaneous stuff for our yard/house. Nothing significant on the hauling, but occasionally put a big load of river rock or fieldstone in the rear. I have a sedan that I drive during the warm months here in Michigan (both of the warm months) and put that away for the winter and drive the truck. 35 miles one way to work on 2-lane county roads (55mph). Averaging 10k miles per year on the truck - 2 yr 20k lease on the current truck.

In the past, I've owned a 3/4 ton Silverado and a bunch of 1/2 tons. 3/4's can be a little harsh on the road unloaded but understand the dynamic. I have never owned a Diesel. We drove a 2014 (old body style) this past week and it was quiet, well mannered and had TONS of low end grunt.

Anyone with experience in both the gas and diesel side of a 3/4 ton with a perspective on direction? If I go gas, I'll just pick up a 1/2 Denali in the next 30-60 days if I can find one. If I go Diesel, I'll hold tight for 6 months and get one in the spring - in time to start launching the X55! Looking for perspective on both the towing side as well as day-to-day manners for winter driving. i.e.: Does it heat up well on cold winter mornings??? Is the 3/4 ton Diesel overkill for pulling the X55?

Like I said at the start - what a great problem to have! Cost of Diesel vs gas or vehicle acquisition cost is not a significant factor. Opinions???

clrussell
11-14-2013, 07:03 PM
Honestly for what you do if get a gasser. I own a duramax diesel and love it. I do tons of work on duramaxs as in upgrades. However for your use I don't think you would enjoy the diesel. Now if your like me and haul something a halfton is not capeable of at least 2-3 times a month then I'd say go for it. Here diesel is $0.70 higher a gallon, plus on the new trucks they require exhaust fluid which I'm still not sure was someone's best idea but that's another topic. In short get another Denali half ton if you liked your last one

soacj
11-14-2013, 07:15 PM
My experience is not in a GM HD, but for what it's worth:

Gas 3/4 ton--Handled typical loads (boat, car on trailer, tractor on trailer, etc.) well IF you didn't mind it revving to the moon on hills or pulling out in traffic. Bad fuel mileage empty or loaded. Ride was firm, but not uncomfortably so. Felt like a truck.

Diesel 3/4 ton: Basically does not care what you put in or behind it. There's nothing like pulling a hill in the left lane, in top gear, passing slower traffic with 10K pounds (obviously less in the case of the boat) on a trailer in tow. Fuel mileage on a 55 mph country two lane 35 mile trip (you described my commute to within 5 miles) is excellent. Loaded mileage is 3-4mpg better than the gas equivalent. Ride was the same, if not a bit better than the gas truck (heavier diesel motor).

The diesel takes about 8-10 minutes to get up to temperature on my commute.

Cost of diesel in proportion to gas sucks nowadays, but if you're a "car guy", the diesel will make you smile. Higher resale is the icing on the cake, although that's not a factor if you're leasing.

scott023
11-14-2013, 08:04 PM
The Denali gasser will serve you very well. Based on what you said, I think the diesel will be overkill.

bobx1
11-14-2013, 08:35 PM
I had 3 F250 diesels and finally switched to gas. I (and probably lots of folks that have diesels) never really needed it but when I purchased my first one the engine upcharge was not too bad, the price for fuel was significantly cheaper than gas, and there was not a bunch of emission controls to screw up the engine. Get a diesel if you want it but based on what you described, you don't "need" it.

zsqure
11-14-2013, 09:32 PM
Diesel 3/4 ton. The gasser is for carrying your clubs to the club.

98 Saleen Cobra
11-14-2013, 09:57 PM
Diesel.. I've had gassers, you get ****ty gas mileage all the time.. Granted diesel is more expensive, but I serious towed 12k lbs with my truck up hills with ease.. it's rediculous

roadster02
11-14-2013, 10:47 PM
My vote, diesel. Makes gas trucks feel like toys. I could never go back to gas. The hardest thing about driving a diesel, is wiping the smile off of your face!

spicergregg@yahoo.com
11-15-2013, 12:18 AM
I vote Duramax. I have an '08 crew cab longbed 2500 HD. I live in the mountains in Colorado and tow an '85 S&S with an older heavy truckbed camper. I don't notice anything when I tow and still get about 12 mpg loaded up here. And it rides so smooth people can't believe it's a truck. I'm pretty sure the truck will outlast me as well.

jschildm
11-15-2013, 08:50 AM
I don't think you would regret the switch to diesel. Set the cruise and roll .... done. Diesels are now quiet (for better or worse), ride like a car, and are beasts, so I see little down side. I might be a biased opinion though.

jkski
11-15-2013, 09:03 AM
If price is not a factor then go diesel but if it is then go gas. From what you describe it would be hard to justify the upcharge for a diesel as they cost on average $6-$10k more depending. I own a 2006 GMC 2500HD CrewCab 4x4 Dmax diesel but truly only because I found a great deal on a used one. The fuel mileage is better but around me I am paying nearly $1 more/gallon for diesel over the lowest grade of gas, so again, weigh that out.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Dmax and it does exactly what others here have already stated but if I had to buy a new truck tomorrow I could not justify the Dmax price.

m5guy
11-15-2013, 06:18 PM
I love team talk! Great perspectives, thank you all. I'm still torn and not sure what I'm going to do. I am awaiting the arrival of a 14 1/2 ton denali at the stealer and take it for a drive. That will probably be the determining factor.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the 2500HD Denali Diesel - just never had one before. Gotta try everything (almost) at least once.... :cool:

Thanks again for the opinions.

bsloop
11-15-2013, 08:56 PM
Not sure what we are going to say that you don't already know.
The 1500 is at the upper end but doable with the load you have and purposes you ask of it.
You did not indicate whether your existing truck was 5.3 or 6.2?

You really don't put enough miles to justify the premium cost of a diesel and there is a ownership learning curve but given your low miles and two year turn over I doubt that will be an issue. Also with it being a lease, I assume you will not be trying to toy with it like some owners are tempted which usually opens up more questions and problems.
Your habits will not choke down the diesel with tons of in town miles.

Diesel has low end power that is fun and you will enjoy the extra stability plus turbo braking of Dmax 2500 when loaded.
Denali is such a premium product, your payment will be quiet large either way but just making a general assumption of financial situation with new x55 and high turn over of premium vehicles I don't think it will be that much of an issue.
Don't know how lease metrics will affect a Denali Dmax so have the dealer run some numbers for basic comparison and see......

Chred
11-15-2013, 10:02 PM
I am on my second 2500 gasser (probably won't be my last) it is the current body, and I am also waiting to see what the 2015 Denali HD brings to the table. I am at 280,000 km (174,000 miles) with only regular maintenance.

Jerseydave
11-15-2013, 10:09 PM
I been driving diesel medium duty trucks for the past 23 years and for constant heavy hauling (26K lbs.) there is no substitute for diesel power and torque. Many of those years I enjoyed low diesel fuel prices.....but not anymore. That coupled with EGR systems, high repair bills and expensive routine maintenance has proven that diesels are expensive to buy and run.

For a personal vehicle I'd think long and hard about these newer diesels. Do you really want to be bothered with plugging in every night during colder months? Adding DEF fluid? Expensive oil changes? Expensive fuel cost? Rough riding suspension?

I've been a GM guy for many years. My last FORD was my '88 Bronco......until I test drove the new Eco-boost. It changed my mind about gas engines for towing and overall driving. It's been a year now of solo driving (70% of the time) and towing my X-star (30%) and I've never had a pickup this nice. Took a long trip from NJ to Indiana and it was great.

Test drive one before you lease your next vehicle.

alfie623
11-16-2013, 03:46 PM
There's not one mention of the awesome diesel oil coating on the pump handle at roadside fuel stations all over the country. One thing I don't miss about my diesel is not having a $50k truck that smells like diesel in the cab after 3 months.

You're also going to want a pair of gloves to use while pumping to keep the oil off everything inside the cab....like the steering wheel.

zsqure
11-16-2013, 04:52 PM
There's not one mention of the awesome diesel oil coating on the pump handle at roadside fuel stations all over the country. One thing I don't miss about my diesel is not having a $50k truck that smells like diesel in the cab after 3 months.

You're also going to want a pair of gloves to use while pumping to keep the oil off everything inside the cab....like the steering wheel.

Its not that bad. Besides diesel fuel smells good.:D

clrussell
11-16-2013, 05:14 PM
There's not one mention of the awesome diesel oil coating on the pump handle at roadside fuel stations all over the country. One thing I don't miss about my diesel is not having a $50k truck that smells like diesel in the cab after 3 months.

You're also going to want a pair of gloves to use while pumping to keep the oil off everything inside the cab....like the steering wheel.

Very good point. I don't think I've eve used a clean diesel pump

roadster02
11-16-2013, 05:45 PM
Most of the diesel pumps here in Colorado are clean, and I have found the same on my cross country trips. I in a 100 will be coated. C'mon, that is no excuse to not own a diesel.

m5guy
11-16-2013, 05:48 PM
Very good point. I don't think I've eve used a clean diesel pump

Never thought about that aspect - great point. Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it, the diesel handles are always quite nasty lookin'.

To the question earlier, current Denali is the 6.2L - at the top end of the trucks capability but still within and done well. I don't keep a vehicle for more than 3 years tops so I won't have the long-term reliability concern, and I don't mod my vehicles at all from stock. And, I don't think leasing terms are very appealing on a 3/4 ton so I'd probably just buy it outright. Would be able to lease the 1/2 ton - very attractive terms on those from Ally.

Working with a friend at church who is a sales person at a mega dealer in the area. He's mostly a Ford guy but has access to a GMC branch - I'll get a test drive in the F150 and F250 this week before I make my choice. Don't like the exterior styling personally but will give it a shot based on recommendation here.

m5guy
11-16-2013, 05:52 PM
Of course, there's always this reason...

clrussell
11-16-2013, 07:33 PM
Most of the diesel pumps here in Colorado are clean, and I have found the same on my cross country trips. I in a 100 will be coated. C'mon, that is no excuse to not own a diesel.

I personally own a duramax and it doesn't bother me to pull up to a nasty pump because I'm a grungy mechanic and deal with that stuff every day, but most businessmen don't want to have to put fuel in their diesel in their suit and go to work smelling like diesel. ( I have no idea what the o.p. does for a living though) I saw a salesman from one of the local dealerships at the diesel pump the other day, all dressed up in typical nice sales clothes. He had 3 towels wrapped around the filler handle and when the pump didnt shut off it spewed all over his nice shoes. I'm sure he was sitting there thinking "these diesels are worthless I'd never own one" just giving the o.p. a heads up

Of course, there's always this reason...

Darn new diesels are so clean they barely have any smell :(

m5guy
11-16-2013, 08:30 PM
Run an IT organization for a large company. Businessman basically. Will struggle if going into the office means I smell like Diesel from the pump.

bsloop
11-17-2013, 01:19 AM
OK, F it, get the Dmax.

Its not for the power, gassers have almost as much and will be faster unloaded.
One word - Control. Stepping to the 2500 platform delivers a heavier duty frame you will appreciate. 1500 can Tow loads fine but Control and Stop; not as well. Towing a travel, horse or car trailer are different because they will usually have electric brakes that react when the brake pedal is pushed and can be manually overridden for even greater or less force.
Our boat trailers are Surge braked so the trailer has to already have momentum pushing on the truck to begin braking.
The tipping factor of Control with the Dmax is the 1,2 "punch" of the Allison trans brake combined with the Turbo brake. It is nothing short of amazing how much slowing/stopping power is available before you ever touch the brakes.

Lets be honest, you know you are on the edge of towing your load with a 1500.
My trailer, boat and fuel scale at 6800#. Load up people, wakeboard gear and weekend gear; a 1500 is technically over its load limits. I know, I have done it on a swap of costs with a buddy's F150 and my boat for a weekend at the lake. My daily driver is a 3500 single axle, CC, LB Dmax and there is NO comparison, especially on a twisting hill decent or hit a highway corner a little too fast.

I'm not an advocate spending money just because one has the financial ability. IMO the Denali package is a bigger waste than the Diesel option, but each to his own. The Denali 2500 has softer suspension and spring pack than a standard 2500 so there should be plenty of cushion to the ride yet a more capable tow platform.

The one add-on I would advocate is a water/air/fuel separator/lift pump like Air Dog or FASS. You will likely never change a filter in 3 years and the 1.5% additional cost ($800) is the best insurance you could buy for staving off a host of trip or engine ruining problems. This is not a performance add-on and will have zero effect against warranty.

As for the Diesel smell on one's hands.......I have never heard something so whiny. Most consumer pumps are very clean and have a slower pump speed to avoid the burp. High speed diesel lanes can be dirty but rarely is that one's only option. Keep in mind with an average driving range of over 600 miles, you will likely touch a pump less than 20 times a year total.
A canister of wet wipes under the seat is a good idea regardless of what you drive.

daddyo
11-17-2013, 06:09 AM
I had a 3/4 ton chev gasser and now have a 3/4 ton dmax.Being on the west coast of BC, we have lots of hills and mountains. What I like about my diesel is, when going downhill on long steep grades, I don't have to constantly hit my brakes like I did on the gasser. In fact, I have to sometimes accelerate down some hills to keep up my speed, due to the engine compression.
If it doesn't blow black, take it back.

alfie623
11-17-2013, 07:29 AM
Working with a friend at church who is a sales person at a mega dealer in the area. He's mostly a Ford guy but has access to a GMC branch - I'll get a test drive in the F150 and F250 this week before I make my choice. Don't like the exterior styling personally but will give it a shot based on recommendation here.


I wasn't going to mention the Ford vs Chevy until I read this post. I currently drive a 2013 F150 Eccoboost as my personal truck and a 2013 Chevy 1500 as my work truck. Both are well equipped with all the bells and whistles. The ford is hands down the better truck in my opinion and it's why I choose it last fall. I tow a snowmobile trailer regularly in the winter and occasionally tow my Maristar in the summer. At work I'm often moving small equipment from job site to job site.

Both trucks now offer 6 speed autos and grade braking making mountain driving a breeze and if overall trailer load is a concern I would consider the heavy trailer towing package. Where the Ford really shines is in the visibility with the tow mirrors and I find the interior much roomier (have you sat in the back seat of an F150 crew cab?), but to be honest my '13 Chevy has a dated interior that's all new in '14.

Good luck and I'm sure when you find the right truck for you you'll know it.

Thrall
11-19-2013, 05:33 PM
The dirty smelly pump handles is bs. My wife has been drivin a diesel for the last 10 yrs and she's a nurse. Never went to work smellin like diesel. Besides how hard is it to grab a couple paper towels to hold the pump handle with.
I'd say get the gasser if you ever plan on owning a gasser again because after Rollin the Dmax you will think even the 6.2 is a pooch!
Obviously X55, M5, Denali you must have a garage. Keeps the truck warmer. Diesel warmup is about double the gasser. Plug it in though and it will be warm before you pull out of the garage.
Not sure what your 6.2 gets for mileage but my 6.2 ford is a gas suckin pig. 12mpg avg commuting.
17mpg avg with my bigger heavier big mud tire diesel. Diesel costs 10% more here and it gets gets almost 30% better mileage.
If you have the means get the diesel. Your X55 will look better behind it!!

swardco
11-20-2013, 01:29 AM
Never heard the "smell like diesel after fueling up" argument before. My wife drives a diesel vw bug and I have never heard her complain about filling it up. I've filled it up a hundred times and never remember thinking anything about the pump handle. Not sure all the people driving diesel BMW and Mercedes would agree with that argument either...

I gotta agree with Thrall, the smelly pump handle argument is a bit lame.

jschildm
11-20-2013, 02:05 PM
Its not for the power, gassers have almost as much and will be faster unloaded.

I would have to see the faster unloaded to believe it.

cbryan70
11-20-2013, 03:14 PM
http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_2014_ram_1500_ecodiesel_gets_28_mpg_highway_i n_real_mpg_testing.html

mzimme
11-20-2013, 03:20 PM
Turbo Gasser!

m5guy
11-20-2013, 09:09 PM
The dirty smelly pump handles is bs. My wife has been drivin a diesel for the last 10 yrs and she's a nurse. Never went to work smellin like diesel. Besides how hard is it to grab a couple paper towels to hold the pump handle with.
I'd say get the gasser if you ever plan on owning a gasser again because after Rollin the Dmax you will think even the 6.2 is a pooch!
Obviously X55, M5, Denali you must have a garage. Keeps the truck warmer. Diesel warmup is about double the gasser. Plug it in though and it will be warm before you pull out of the garage.
Not sure what your 6.2 gets for mileage but my 6.2 ford is a gas suckin pig. 12mpg avg commuting.
17mpg avg with my bigger heavier big mud tire diesel. Diesel costs 10% more here and it gets gets almost 30% better mileage.
If you have the means get the diesel. Your X55 will look better behind it!!

Best response ever - Your X55 will look better behind it!! Decision made. I will be putting everything in place tomorrow for my bridge vehicle. Now, just need to wait for "Early 2014" to get the 2500HD with the Duramax.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and the perspectives.

Aric'sX15
11-21-2013, 12:54 AM
Or you could get a 6.7 powerstroke now! There is nothing uglier with the exception of the tundra to the new gm products.

bsloop
11-21-2013, 10:36 AM
Or you could get a 6.7 powerstroke now! There is nothing uglier with the exception of the tundra to the new gm products.

Since the actual discussion is complete, we can let this fall into a typical preference debate......

I guess I could see this coming from Texas. IMO, the King Ranch has an over the top interior dripping of dead cow. Too heavy of a leather smell, almost has to be fake and rough grained.
Might be attractive to the crowd that thinks cow sh!t and oil smell like money but it was a turn off for me. It also rode the roughest with not good sight lines.

Im not some crazy vegan and many others can do leather more tastefully.

Forrest-X45
11-21-2013, 03:51 PM
I know I am late to to the party but you made the right decision. The Dmax will pull your X55 like a dream. I have towed my 45 with the 6.2 and Dmax and the 6.2 does fine the Dmax is that much better. The first time you hook up your X55 it will put a huge smile on your face and you will be happy your decided on the Dmax and 3/4 ton.

Aric'sX15
11-21-2013, 04:21 PM
Since the actual discussion is complete, we can let this fall into a typical preference debate......

I guess I could see this coming from Texas. IMO, the King Ranch has an over the top interior dripping of dead cow. Too heavy of a leather smell, almost has to be fake and rough grained.
Might be attractive to the crowd that thinks cow sh!t and oil smell like money but it was a turn off for me. It also rode the roughest with not good sight lines.

Im not some crazy vegan and many others can do leather more tastefully.

Have you heard of a lariat? That was a typical ignorant "everyone from Texas is a redneck cowboy" stereotype. did I say anything about king ranch?? I have a lot of time in both trucks, not just a test drive. The f250 rode better than my f150 did.
PS, thanks for the condescending a**wipe response

BudmanV24
11-21-2013, 11:20 PM
Since the actual discussion is complete, we can let this fall into a typical preference debate......

I guess I could see this coming from Texas. IMO, the King Ranch has an over the top interior dripping of dead cow. Too heavy of a leather smell, almost has to be fake and rough grained.
Might be attractive to the crowd that thinks cow sh!t and oil smell like money but it was a turn off for me. It also rode the roughest with not good sight lines.

Im not some crazy vegan and many others can do leather more tastefully.

Do you drive a Prius?

Aric'sX15
11-21-2013, 11:20 PM
I heard he drives a king ranch prius

98 Saleen Cobra
11-22-2013, 12:23 AM
Just sayin' the Powerstrokes look pretty darn good. But I'm partial.. The new GMC's look sick too.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f290/98SaleenCobra/IMG_20131115_132138_zpsd622ff28.jpg

BudmanV24
11-22-2013, 12:25 AM
Just sayin' the Powerstrokes look pretty darn good. But I'm partial.. The new GMC's look sick too.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f290/98SaleenCobra/IMG_20131115_132138_zpsd622ff28.jpg

Any interest in trading for my e350 super duty v10, lol?

Aric'sX15
11-22-2013, 12:35 AM
get off TT bud, your drunk. hahaha

98 Saleen Cobra
11-22-2013, 01:10 AM
Any interest in trading for my e350 super duty v10, lol?

Clear sarcasm is clear lol..

BudmanV24
11-22-2013, 09:04 AM
Clear sarcasm is clear lol..

Great van. Running on a solid 7 cylinders, lol.

bsloop
11-22-2013, 10:46 AM
Do you drive a Prius?

OK, F it, get the Dmax.

Lets be honest, you know you are on the edge of towing your load with a 1500.
My trailer, boat and fuel scale at 6800#. Load up people, wakeboard gear and weekend gear; a 1500 is technically over its load limits. I know, I have done it on a swap of costs with a buddy's F150 and my boat for a weekend at the lake. My daily driver is a 3500 single axle, CC, LB Dmax and there is NO comparison, especially on a twisting hill decent or hit a highway corner a little too fast.



When I was looking, all 4 companies were in consideration. 1/2 ton was relatively thrown out.

Ford was worst IMO. Rode like a wagon, King Ranch interior was sin ugly, bad sight lines, wide fat seats, rear crew bench was low and like sitting on a board, engines are unproven with a long track record of issues. It did have an 8' bed.

Tundra Crew Max - Good ride; quality fit interior, rear seating was AWSOME limo like; good engine reliability. Concerned it lacked heavy load handling of other 3/4 ton, gas hog, tiny 5.5' bed

Dodge - OK ride and interior; small Crew backseat leg room, Mega was great but no Mega LB, reliable engine; other systems seemed to have more long term problems.

GMC - Good ride, Decent interior but a little cheap feeling, seats fit well; acceptable leg room and second most comfortable rear seats to Crew Max; proven powertrain; LB option

Everyone has their own needs and standards, I was completely unbiased at the start.

BTW Ford, why still no compliance with SAE 2807 tow standards? Toyota has since they went into effect in 2011, Dodge and GM were ready last year. Dodge even published then retracted them with Ford balked then CHICKENED OUT! when they found out how poor their current trucks would fair. (assumed) So they waited for the next redesign so they would not have marketing egg on their face......
Mike Levine, Ford's truck communications manager, made the distinction on implementation of the standards in 2013 with all-new models, noting that the F-150 received a refresh in 2013, and was not an all-new model. "We'll test and report according to the standards with the introduction of all-new vehicles beginning with the 2013 model year," he said. "The 2013 Escape, which was an all-new model for 2013, complies with the J2807 standard. When our all-new pickups debut, they will comply with the standard."

Read more: http://www.trucktrend.com/features/n...#ixzz2lDTbuEsh

AricX15, don't sweat it, just poking a little Texas fun.
Speaking of Texas, Props from Texas auto writers to Toyota for being compliant since 2011 which was the official date agreed by all mfg.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...w+standard.htm

Cloaked
11-22-2013, 08:51 PM
........ My daily driver is a 3500 single axle, CC, LB Dmax LB7 or LBZ engine make?

Been through three Dmaxs. Not impressed but they served the purpose. I am GM branded so I kept going back until 2012. New 2012 Tundra. I kept it 3 months and dumped it. Too light duty for me...Replaced it with a 2500HD 6.0L gasser. Diesel burner is not practical any more for my needs. The price of fuel is ridiculous and it won't get any better...

One Ford, my first and last and one Dodge, my first and last...One Toyota, my first and last...

I miss the diesel/Allison towing. I miss it a lot... Waiting on the 500 HP Cat to come out in GMC. It's on its way...

$0.02

Jerseydave
11-23-2013, 07:31 AM
I miss the diesel/Allison towing. I miss it a lot... Waiting on the 500 HP Cat to come out in GMC. It's on its way...

$0.02[/QUOTE]

Interesting since CAT has not made any truck engines for several years, I was told because they couldn't meet emissions standards. Oh I hope you're right and they come out with one in a pickup.....CAT makes great engines. I has a 3126 in my 2000 Freightliner, it was great. My buddy has the higher hp version (300hp) in his Sterling and it will go 92 mph on flat ground! Not bad for a 20K lb truck empty!

zsqure
11-23-2013, 08:45 PM
While searching for a truck you should watch top gear ( the American version). They have a 3 way between ram Chevy and ford. The Chevy wins the drag race, the ford wins the tire burn off. The dodge is not geared right or something cause it is dead last.

roadster02
11-26-2013, 07:24 PM
Ford must have been doing something right for the last 35yrs to be the top truck.

Since the actual discussion is complete, we can let this fall into a typical preference debate......

I guess I could see this coming from Texas. IMO, the King Ranch has an over the top interior dripping of dead cow. Too heavy of a leather smell, almost has to be fake and rough grained.
Might be attractive to the crowd that thinks cow sh!t and oil smell like money but it was a turn off for me. It also rode the roughest with not good sight lines.

Im not some crazy vegan and many others can do leather more tastefully.

jafo9
11-26-2013, 08:58 PM
speaking of country trim levels. anyone see the new seats on the up level Ram? the seats looked like a pair of cowboy boots with flames stitched in the seats. the toyota also has a "ranch" edition with faux saddle bags on the back of the seats and bullets on the floor mats.

scott023
11-26-2013, 09:39 PM
Ford must have been doing something right for the last 35yrs to be the top truck.

Lmbo. Top truck by what calculation?:rolleyes:

roadster02
11-27-2013, 06:54 PM
#1 in sales. Must mean something. Ford didn't even need a Govt. bailout. Say what you want the evidence speaks for itself.

Lmbo. Top truck by what calculation?:rolleyes:

onewheat
11-28-2013, 02:01 AM
I'll take the new 6.2 in my next truck - 420 hp and 460 lb-ft of torque without the diesel engine or fuel surcharge. The extra torque would be great with a diesel, but not with all of the extra expense and upkeep cost. My B-I-L just got hit with a $9000 fuel system repair bill on his 70,000 mile 6.4 F-250 blamed on "fuel contamination". He buys 6000 gallons of fuel a week and only fills up from his tank - always fresh and filtered. I'm not willing to take that risk for some more torque that I don't need over what the 6.2 gas burner will give me.

Jerseydave
11-28-2013, 09:12 AM
Wow, $9000 to fix a truck with only 70K miles??? If that were me, I'd take it back and have a face to face with the owner of the dealership......trade for a new 6.7 diesel.

I'm sure he could find plenty of documentation about all the problems the 6.4 diesel has.
Contaminated fuel??? I call B.S. on that one!

scott023
11-28-2013, 09:16 AM
#1 in sales. Must mean something. Ford didn't even need a Govt. bailout. Say what you want the evidence speaks for itself.

Wonder what the numbers are if you combine GMC and Chev, would they have been on top for the last 35 years? The bailout argument is rubbish, IMO.

roadster02
11-28-2013, 12:11 PM
Oh you mean GMC, ie Government Motors Company? They gave MY tax dollars to a privately owned company to keep them from going under, and that is not a concern to you?? Ok, gotcha, now I understand. Whoa, whoa, wait a minute, you're not even a citizen of this country, so your opinion of matters that pertain to the USA means squat,

onewheat
11-28-2013, 12:15 PM
I think Ford still edges out GM by a bit - Ford fleet sales put them over the top. They offer good deals on fleet sales and most places I know of tend to stock their fleets that way for some reason.

scott023
11-28-2013, 12:24 PM
Oh you mean GMC, ie Government Motors Company? They gave MY tax dollars to a privately owned company to keep them from going under, and that is not a concern to you?? Ok, gotcha, now I understand. Whoa, whoa, wait a minute, you're not even a citizen of this country, so your opinion of matters that pertain to the USA means squat,

LMBO. Cool beans. I wasn't aware that ones place of residence entitled them to an opinion. They're like a$$holes, everyone's got one. I was simply saying that the bailout has nothing to do with the old "who sold more" debate.

BTW, your comment shows a complete lack of common sense. If you think you and the countryyou live in were the only ones directly effected by the economy down there, you've got that wrong. Some of us up here have bussinesses that have direct ties to companies down there... further to that, you certainly can't blame anyone else on who the citizens of the US voted into office.

scott023
11-28-2013, 12:26 PM
I think Ford still edges out GM by a bit - Ford fleet sales put them over the top. They offer good deals on fleet sales and most places I know of tend to stock their fleets that way for some reason.

Agreed. I was simply pointing out that there could have been a year, in the last 35, that GM outsold Ford. Just wasn't last year. ;):D

roadster02
11-28-2013, 12:33 PM
I'll rephrase, your opinion of the bailout means squat, you had no dog in that hunt. Your opinion of trucks can possibly be valid.

LMBO. Cool beans. I wasn't aware that ones place of residence entitled them to an opinion. There like a$$holes, everyone's got one. BTW, your comment shows a complete lack of common sense. If you think you and the country were the only ones directly effected by the economy down there, you've got that wrong. Some of us up here have bussinesses that have direct ties to companies down there... further to that, you certainly can't blame anyone else on who the citizens of the US voted into office.

scott023
11-28-2013, 12:35 PM
I'll rephrase, your opinion of the bailout means squat, you had no dog in that hunt. Your opinion of trucks can be valid.

I didn't state an opinion on the bailout. I was saying that the bailout has nothing to do with the sales numbers over the last 35 years.

roadster02
11-28-2013, 12:43 PM
And I added my comment about the bailout only to bolster the fact that Ford sold so many vehicles, a lot of passenger cars, and a lot of F-series trucks, that they were solvent, and did not need any bailout. That leads one to believe Ford was, and is on top in light truck sales and has been for many years. You don't get that kind of sales by making an inferior product.

scott023
11-28-2013, 12:47 PM
And I added my comment about the bailout only to bolster the fact that Ford sold so many vehicles, a lot of passenger cars, and a lot of F-series trucks, that they were solvent, and did not need any bailout. That leads one to believe Ford was, and is on top in light truck sales and has been for many years. You don't get that kind of sales by making an inferior product.

You can get those sales by offering huge discounts on fleet sales though... we all know that Ford has done that for years to push unit sales.

roadster02
11-28-2013, 12:56 PM
Ok, you got me, I give up, obviously beating a dead horse here, B.S yourself however you want, the figures are there, I'm done typing about this.

bbymgr
11-28-2013, 02:01 PM
Ok, you got me, I give up, obviously beating a dead horse here, B.S yourself however you want, the figures are there, I'm done typing about this.

Hey roadster........I guess you aren't going to take into consideration the fact that Ford may not have taken the "Bailout" loan........but they did take a $5.9 billion loan from the Federal Government in June of 2009. Ford also got the lions share of the DOE's "green car funding initiative" in late 2008, to the tune of $5.8 billion. I know all you Ford guys like to throw that "bailout" argument at anyone that might like another manufacturer, but the fact is they all got some form of Government Loan that has to be paid back. I guarantee that they all have taken multiple Government Loans through the years, but we won't bring that up.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/29/automakers-report-card-who-still-owes-taxpayers-money-the-answer-might-surprise-you/

scott023
11-28-2013, 03:59 PM
Ok, you got me, I give up, obviously beating a dead horse here, B.S yourself however you want, the figures are there, I'm done typing about this.

Hey roadster........I guess you aren't going to take into consideration the fact that Ford may not have taken the "Bailout" loan........but they did take a $5.9 billion loan from the Federal Government in June of 2009. Ford also got the lions share of the DOE's "green car funding initiative" in late 2008, to the tune of $5.8 billion. I know all you Ford guys like to throw that "bailout" argument at anyone that might like another manufacturer, but the fact is they all got some form of Government Loan that has to be paid back. I guarantee that they all have taken multiple Government Loans through the years, but we won't bring that up.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/29/automakers-report-card-who-still-owes-taxpayers-money-the-answer-might-surprise-you/


There are figures out there... just not ones Ford guys want to discuss. 8p:D

DooSPX
11-29-2013, 02:44 PM
Scott, your wasting your time. Some people will never get it regardless if the writing is right in front of them. It's pretty sad that many didn't even know about that without reading it in a magazine. And the comment about where you live verses the US is the most ridiculous comment I have seen on here in a while. Maybe he should do a little research and figure out that Canadians do a LOT for the US economy. As a business owner, in FL, I would say that 25 to 30 percent of my winter business is from Canadians. Such a obscene comment lol.

scott023
11-29-2013, 04:50 PM
Scott, your wasting your time. Some people will never get it regardless if the writing is right in front of them. It's pretty sad that many didn't even know about that without reading it in a magazine. And the comment about where you live verses the US is the most ridiculous comment I have seen on here in a while. Maybe he should do a little research and figure out that Canadians do a LOT for the US economy. As a business owner, in FL, I would say that 25 to 30 percent of my winter business is from Canadians. Such a obscene comment lol.

Some people don't realize these things...

DHPRO
12-02-2013, 01:16 PM
basically Im at same decision as IP. I'll be going 2014 denali HD gasser. I wont be towing anything regularly enough to need the diesel, and frankly worry about getting diesel started after its sat for 3-4 days in the freezing cold wilderness when I go snowmobiling (if someone has real world cold weather experience pls chime in).

jkski
12-02-2013, 01:24 PM
I won't claim to have the most experience on this board however, I will share my thoughts based upon my usage in cold temps. Like you, we snowmobile and I have left my 2006 GMC Dmax sitting in a parking lot for several days during cold temps while we were off riding. With the exception of a frozen fuel filter, I have never had a problem. The fuel filter froze while driving home after a trip and I learned later that I could have avoided it had I drained the water from the filter like you are supposed to do every so often. So, obviously, now I always drain it once a month and most certainly before I take a trip to a cold place. I also carry with me a spare fuel filter and tools to change it on the side of the road if need be, along with a bottle of Diesel 911.
Most places I stay in the UP have an outside outlet that I could plug my block into if I wanted, so you can always do that as well.
Hope this helps.

zsqure
12-02-2013, 09:18 PM
I also carry with me a spare fuel filter and tools to change it on the side of the road if need be, along with a bottle of Diesel 911.

Every diesel owner should have those items "just in case" because you just don't know the quality of the fuel you are putting in your tank.

onejdgreen
12-03-2013, 08:54 AM
A lot of comments for a 3/4 diesel, I have owned multiple 3/4 diesels and just bought my first 1 ton diesel. I would buy a 1 ton any day of the week over a 3/4! It may be over kill, I know it is for me and what I do, but it does ride a of lot nicer than my 3/4 tons did and you can pull, haul, pass anything on the road...

bsloop
12-03-2013, 09:08 AM
basically Im at same decision as IP. I'll be going 2014 denali HD gasser. I wont be towing anything regularly enough to need the diesel, and frankly worry about getting diesel started after its sat for 3-4 days in the freezing cold wilderness when I go snowmobiling (if someone has real world cold weather experience pls chime in).

The newer diesels, especially since 2006 are no problem. The hotter glow plugs and high pressure common rail injectors make cold weather starts almost a non issue.
There are people on Dieselplace.com (duramax forum) that start unplugged at -20 F actual temp and lower with no problem.
Due to diesel's efficiency it may take a little longer to warm but no problem starting. You probably will be running a generator somewhere anyway, plugging in 2-3 hours will help dramatically with engine warm-up.

Diesels do have their quirks and different things you should know how to do yourself (or be prepared to open your wallet and wait for someone who is capable) so if you are the no-brainer, turn key type person, gas is probably a better option.

soacj
12-03-2013, 11:32 AM
A lot of comments for a 3/4 diesel, I have owned multiple 3/4 diesels and just bought my first 1 ton diesel. I would buy a 1 ton any day of the week over a 3/4! It may be over kill, I know it is for me and what I do, but it does ride a of lot nicer than my 3/4 tons did and you can pull, haul, pass anything on the road...

I'm curious about the one ton riding better than the 3/4 ton...What specific trucks are you comparing?

onejdgreen
12-03-2013, 06:22 PM
I'm curious about the one ton riding better than the 3/4 ton...What specific trucks are you comparing?

I'm talking about Fords. That's all I have or will own.

soacj
12-03-2013, 06:30 PM
I'm talking about Fords. That's all I have or will own.

I was more curious if you were comparing same generation, wheelbase, SRW vs. DRW, etc.

pap
12-03-2013, 06:55 PM
Gas station yesterday: Regular unleaded $2.99/gal, Diesel $3.99/gal. Diesel owners in these parts are getting screwed big time. I remember when diesel used to be CHEAPER than gas!

zsqure
12-03-2013, 07:42 PM
I'm not in construction anymore, what's the current cost of off-road diesel?

scott023
12-03-2013, 08:20 PM
I'm talking about Fords. That's all I have or will own.

I'm sorry about that... :uglyhamme

Jerseydave
12-04-2013, 08:01 PM
I'm not in construction anymore, what's the current cost of off-road diesel?

About .10 less than highway diesel around here.......folks are getting fleeced!

I saw diesel here at one station (Exxon in Plainfield NJ) for $4.49! Gas there is $ 3.35

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2013, 11:06 PM
Diesel price being more expensive than gasoline is ridiculous as diesel comes from a lower grade of crude than gasoline.

bsloop
12-05-2013, 12:32 PM
Diesel price being more expensive than gasoline is ridiculous as diesel comes from a lower grade of crude than gasoline.

From what I understand -
--Newer distillation technology can crack some of the longer hydro carbon molecules that make up diesel into shorter gasoline hydro carbons so there is less "excess" diesel byproduct from refining a barrel of oil.
--Export; It is easier and more profitable to export diesel.
--Low sulfur diesel mandates increased refining costs.

I'm not in construction anymore, what's the current cost of off-road diesel?

It's funny; Urban stations, off-road/Red is only .10-.15 less. Rural/farm is usually the full .26

DHPRO
12-08-2013, 09:03 AM
Well, at this point it looks like F250 gasser for me...although I have to add I'm struggling with putting a Ford in my driveway...really hoping not to repeat past bad experiences.

scott023
12-08-2013, 11:04 AM
Well, at this point it looks like F250 gasser for me...although I have to add I'm struggling with putting a Ford in my driveway...really hoping not to repeat past bad experiences.

Best of luck with that...;)

Thrall
12-08-2013, 01:58 PM
Well, at this point it looks like F250 gasser for me...although I have to add I'm struggling with putting a Ford in my driveway...really hoping not to repeat past bad experiences.

I have one. '13 model, 6.2L.
It is a nice truck, good trans/shifting. Fords elect rear axle locker is nice.
IMO they struck out with the engine. Yes it runs fine but its a dog and poooooor mileage.
Less pulling power than my '11 f150 5.0. Gets 12mpg commuting highway on a good day. 8s towing a 4000lb trailer. And it's a 16 year old chassis. May as well be a 99 F250 with the 5.4. About the same cept for the nice 6 speed trans.
JMO

Thrall
12-08-2013, 02:05 PM
basically Im at same decision as IP. I'll be going 2014 denali HD gasser. I wont be towing anything regularly enough to need the diesel, and frankly worry about getting diesel started after its sat for 3-4 days in the freezing cold wilderness when I go snowmobiling (if someone has real world cold weather experience pls chime in).

I've been parking a Dmax or Cummins in snowmobile lots for the last 10 years. First time one froze up on me was last weekend actually. And it was really a fluke. Long story not a fuel issue
Don't sweat it especially with a new(er) truck.

Thrall
12-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Best response ever - Your X55 will look better behind it!! Decision made. I will be putting everything in place tomorrow for my bridge vehicle. Now, just need to wait for "Early 2014" to get the 2500HD with the Duramax.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and the perspectives.

Hahaha. Glad I could help! Btw drove a LMM Denali last weekend for the first time. All I could say was wow! Like a Cadillac freight train! Made my wife star grumbling about her "old" Dodge.

TayMC197
12-11-2013, 03:56 PM
I've read a lot of posts here and they all make good points. I've owned 1500 series GMC pickups and loved them but hated tranny rebuilds every year becuase it couldn't handle pulling a decent sized load every now and then. Not to mention all of the down shifting to go over little hill.

If you go 2500 series, just get the deisel, the 2500 in a gasser is worthless in my opinion. Yes they can pull just as much and have the suspension, etc. But the mileage sucks, don't resale for crap, make you regret not getting the diesel and seem to ride worse.

Love the new ford diesels, great trucks, never been a fan of hte F250 gassers, POS motors... Ford or GM, both great diesels... I've have a 7.3 ford, and 2 6.6 duramaxs... no regrets with either, I do feel hte 2500 GM's drive a little better as far as turning goes. They drive more like a 1500. Ford F250's drive like a big truck.

onewheat
12-11-2013, 10:04 PM
Just ordered my 6.2 Denali - very happy with my decision.

pap
12-11-2013, 10:50 PM
Everyone is always happy when they order. The question is how happy you are a few years later :)

DHPRO
12-13-2013, 02:36 PM
I've read a lot of posts here and they all make good points. I've owned 1500 series GMC pickups and loved them but hated tranny rebuilds every year becuase it couldn't handle pulling a decent sized load every now and then. Not to mention all of the down shifting to go over little hill.

Shift kit and servos will take care of that...

DHPRO
12-13-2013, 02:38 PM
JUst bought 2014 F250 Platinum gasser...diesel just wasnt practical for me.

onewheat
12-15-2013, 05:28 PM
Everyone is always happy when they order. The question is how happy you are a few years later :)

163,000 on my 1500HD with the 6.0 gasser - still very happy with this truck after 11 years.

DHPRO
01-10-2014, 08:14 AM
JUst bought 2014 F250 Platinum gasser...diesel just wasnt practical for me.

Oh man...this thing sucks gas! 1200 miles pulling snowmobiles and only got 9.3mpg!!! I must be doing something wrong...

bsloop
01-10-2014, 08:58 AM
Oh man...this thing sucks gas! 1200 miles pulling snowmobiles and only got 9.3mpg!!! I must be doing something wrong...

I will try to keep it objective -
Assume this is hand calc and not DIC. Does sound a little low but within expectations -

Year round factors:
Gears
Speed
tires - size, tread, inflation

Winter compounding factors:
Cold weather warm up
Idle time
Resistance due to snow
Time spent in 4wd

scott023
01-10-2014, 09:32 AM
Oh man...this thing sucks gas! 1200 miles pulling snowmobiles and only got 9.3mpg!!! I must be doing something wrong...

Ouch, that seems really low. bsloop has listed the factors already, so I won't, but something has to be contributing to mileage being so low.

CruisinGA
01-10-2014, 09:41 AM
1000 miles on my '14 F150 4x4 w/ ecoboost

Mileage has not been as good as i anticipated
Hwy- 18 @ 75-80 mph
around town - 16-16.5

First towing will be this weekend with a trailer loaded down with firewood. Looking forward to having 100 more HP vs the last time I made a wood run with my '06 Tundra 4x4.

jkski
01-10-2014, 09:45 AM
I would add a couple of other factors that could possibly have contributed to the poor fuel economy:
1) Trailer you were towing: Was it enclosed and if so how well does it tuck in behind the truck for aerodynamics. I know my mileage decreases when I pull my enclosed sled trailer and it is only a 2 place, so anything larger is bound to have an impact.
2) Speed you tow at: There is always that fine line when it comes to speed and fuel economy and it changes when towing (again, weight of item being towed and aerodynamics).
3) How much of the time were you in 4wd?

I don't know what your truck is rated to get in terms of fuel economy but it is amazing how it changes when you change the usage.

Good luck.

alfie623
01-10-2014, 10:17 AM
Oh man...this thing sucks gas! 1200 miles pulling snowmobiles and only got 9.3mpg!!! I must be doing something wrong...

Which motor? I pull a triton 2-place with an aluminum shell behind my '13 Eccoboost and I get about 10 mpg while in 4wd and driving in snow. When I pull on the interstate in 2wd I get over 16 mpg.

I have the tow package with 3.73 gears also.

DHPRO
01-10-2014, 10:42 AM
I was with an F 150 that was getting 16ish mpg. The F250 is the 6.2L, 275/65/20 tires...3.73 gears, 2 place Flo clamshell trailer, prob 2k lbs loaded. I was in 4x4 only about 100 miles total and never faster than 50mph. Highway driving was between 70 and 72mph, on I87 through mountains. I was noticing it liked 65mph much better. It's huge diff vs my Tundra, with no giddyup, but can pull a house! I'm hoping motor breaks in and mileage improves, but it'll never be the Eco boost

soacj
01-10-2014, 12:40 PM
Sub 10mpg has got to suck...Sounds like speed and mountain grades were the big culprit here. Break-in might result in a marginal improvement, but 60-65mph would result in greater gains in my opinion. That being said, who has time for driving around at 60mph when you've got places to be?:)

roadster02
01-10-2014, 01:34 PM
Maybe shoulda got the Diesel after all? :confused:Oh man...this thing sucks gas! 1200 miles pulling snowmobiles and only got 9.3mpg!!! I must be doing something wrong...

DHPRO
01-10-2014, 01:48 PM
Maybe shoulda got the Diesel after all? :confused:

Well...maybe ur right for the mpg, but diesels def wouldn't have enjoyed the short 1m daily drive I do to commute to the train. In the end, it's still better mileage than my hot rod gets, and it sure is damn comfortable to be looking down on suburbans,

roadster02
01-10-2014, 02:18 PM
1M! Wow, you hardly even get the oil warmed up. You should probably ride a bike when the weather allows and save the fuel. My distance to work is 4M. I leave the diesel at home when the weather cooperates. Great to be so close.:)

DHPRO
01-10-2014, 04:30 PM
1M! Wow, you hardly even get the oil warmed up. You should probably ride a bike when the weather allows and save the fuel. My distance to work is 4M. I leave the diesel at home when the weather cooperates. Great to be so close.:)

Dude... 1m to train for 45m ride...I'll take ur 4 any day!

mzimme
01-10-2014, 06:00 PM
1000 miles on my '14 F150 4x4 w/ ecoboost

Mileage has not been as good as i anticipated
Hwy- 18 @ 75-80 mph
around town - 16-16.5

First towing will be this weekend with a trailer loaded down with firewood. Looking forward to having 100 more HP vs the last time I made a wood run with my '06 Tundra 4x4.

I have about 2800 miles on mine. I'm averaging ~15.5@ 75mph on the highway, and in the 13's around town. Mileage has been very poor...

scott023
01-10-2014, 06:36 PM
I'm getting substantially better mileage with the Denali. After reading the last couple posts, glad I picked it.

Jerseydave
01-10-2014, 07:30 PM
I was with an F 150 that was getting 16ish mpg. The F250 is the 6.2L, 275/65/20 tires...3.73 gears, 2 place Flo clamshell trailer, prob 2k lbs loaded. I was in 4x4 only about 100 miles total and never faster than 50mph. Highway driving was between 70 and 72mph, on I87 through mountains. I was noticing it liked 65mph much better. It's huge diff vs my Tundra, with no giddyup, but can pull a house! I'm hoping motor breaks in and mileage improves, but it'll never be the Eco boost

If it makes you feel any better, my eco-boost F-150 only gets 11 highway pulling my X-star.
Probably the combo of 6.2 engine with 3.73 gears going over 70 mph = 9 mpg.

Forrest-X45
01-10-2014, 07:37 PM
I'm getting substantially better mileage with the Denali. After reading the last couple posts, glad I picked it.

That was a marvelous selection, Scott :toast: :D

The worse mileage I saw towing was around 12 with my wife's rig with the 6.2L.

Aric'sX15
01-10-2014, 08:13 PM
I have about 2800 miles on mine. I'm averaging ~15.5@ 75mph on the highway, and in the 13's around town. Mileage has been very poor...

Yikes. With my 5.0 f150 I was getting almost 15mpgs pulling a boat!!! My highway averages at 70-75 were 20-22mpgs. 17.5 was the average shown on the info screen for my mixed economy. Youll get a slight bump when the engine breaks in, just have to stay out of the boost!

scott023
01-10-2014, 08:23 PM
That was a marvelous selection, Scott :toast: :D

The worse mileage I saw towing was around 12 with my wife's rig with the 6.2L.

I got 14.5 going though the mountains. Trailer weighed in at nearly 8400lbs + what was loaded in the box. And believe you me, I don't have a light foot.

jaked7138
01-11-2014, 02:52 AM
in my opinion you should get a duramax, they will last longer and get better mileage. theyll last up to 300,000 miles aprx and they tow with ease. i think itll just be a better truck if its a diesel.\

curver900
01-11-2014, 08:52 AM
in my opinion you should get a duramax, they will last longer and get better mileage. theyll last up to 300,000 miles aprx and they tow with ease. i think itll just be a better truck if its a diesel.\

I had a dmax 2005 - head gasket at 83k miles, tranny dripped oil by the filter from about 50k on, needed all new front end stearing components... so no they don't all last 300k... I now have a ford and 65k miles on that with no issues so far... but it may have it's day in the sun as well. So far it is a much better truck, in that it is a truck, will it go 300k ? you would have to ask the next owner as I likely won't keep it past 125k....

None of the three have it all worked out, all have had issues accross the board, motor, tranny, steering, locking diff, and on and on....look at any forum as it relates to any brand... someone hates and someon loves... and everyones has different luck or curse by brand... otherwise we wouldn't be able to feel better about "our" brand vs "your sucky" brand...:D

But for towing you cannot deny that a diesel is the best way to go... My diesel, towing through CA picking up my 205v was getting around 11 at 70-75mph up an down Donners pass and I was passing gassers that where towing like they were standing still.. just sayn';)

If you don't tow alot or small loads you will NEVER EVER be able to justify the expense of diesel maintenance on the new ones...

scott023
01-11-2014, 09:05 AM
I had a dmax 2005 - head gasket at 83k miles, tranny dripped oil by the filter from about 50k on, needed all new front end stearing components... so no they don't all last 300k... I now have a ford and 65k miles on that with no issues so far... but it may have it's day in the sun as well. So far it is a much better truck, in that it is a truck, will it go 300k ? you would have to ask the next owner as I likely won't keep it past 125k....

None of the three have it all worked out, all have had issues accross the board, motor, tranny, steering, locking diff, and on and on....look at any forum as it relates to any brand... someone hates and someon loves... and everyones has different luck or curse by brand... otherwise we wouldn't be able to feel better about "our" brand vs "your sucky" brand...:D

But for towing you cannot deny that a diesel is the best way to go... My diesel, towing through CA picking up my 205v was getting around 11 at 70-75mph up an down Donners pass and I was passing gassers that where towing like they were standing still.. just sayn';)

If you don't tow alot or small loads you will NEVER EVER be able to justify the expense of diesel maintenance on the new ones...

Isn't that pretty porr mileage towing such a small boat? I get better towing a bigger boat with a gasser, and I don't get passed in the mountains.

zsqure
01-11-2014, 09:14 AM
We really need someone to be the "Dodge 1500 diesel guinea pig" anyone brave enough to pony up for one of those? Sharp looking truck, mid 20's fuel economy when not towing. I'd go for it if they would be as reliable as the 3 HD diesels.

curver900
01-11-2014, 10:06 AM
Isn't that pretty porr mileage towing such a small boat? I get better towing a bigger boat with a gasser, and I don't get passed in the mountains.

I highly doubt it... I have a 6.2 H2... it only gets 14 unloaded and around 12 towing... if you get what you claimed earlier you better keep it forever....

I also get 11 pulling a 22 foot with a JD 2640 with a bucket and back blade but alas that is on flat land... will that 6.2 pull 15k???;)

mzimme
01-11-2014, 10:09 AM
Yikes. With my 5.0 f150 I was getting almost 15mpgs pulling a boat!!! My highway averages at 70-75 were 20-22mpgs. 17.5 was the average shown on the info screen for my mixed economy. Youll get a slight bump when the engine breaks in, just have to stay out of the boost!

It's hard... you're in the boost by 2k RPMS. Anything less than that and I'll be dead before I get to my destination.

bsloop
01-11-2014, 11:48 AM
I got 14.5 going though the mountains. Trailer weighed in at nearly 8400lbs + what was loaded in the box. And believe you me, I don't have a light foot.

I highly doubt it... I have a 6.2 H2... it only gets 14 unloaded and around 12 towing... if you get what you claimed earlier you better keep it forever....

I also get 11 pulling a 22 foot with a JD 2640 with a bucket and back blade but alas that is on flat land... will that 6.2 pull 15k???;)

I highly doubt the claim as well but hey..........

Given DHPRO's short commute and infrequent towing, I think he made the correct purchase going with gas.
His mpg experience was likely the combined result of several factors. Unless he calculated on each fill up and was aware of other conditions its hard to narrow down.

Roads can be deceiving with today's high horsepower. I drop 1.5 mpg for a trip though the rolling Flint Hills here in KS. Does not feel like much but it adds up.
Head on wind can be a KILLER. I still remember driving my father's 91' F150 from KS to Padre one Spring Break, 25mph with gusts to 40 head on. With it's turd 305, some gusts felt like the truck stopped. We were hauling the gear of other car loads and trying to keep up with 75-80 mph cars. Stopping every 200 miles for 34 gals of gas. After the second stop, we cried uncle and slowed down to 60.

As I get more into trailer details; how straight the trailer was built or axles set can make a BIG difference in both mpg and tire life. Micro tolerances mean the difference between whether the trailer rolls true or ever so slightly scrubs sideways. The way it is setup can also explain why some trailers have a propensity to blow out while others don't have a problem.

scott023
01-11-2014, 01:01 PM
I highly doubt it... I have a 6.2 H2... it only gets 14 unloaded and around 12 towing... if you get what you claimed earlier you better keep it forever....

I also get 11 pulling a 22 foot with a JD 2640 with a bucket and back blade but alas that is on flat land... will that 6.2 pull 15k???;)

Doubt away. I speak actually economy.

And no, it won't pull 15k. 8p

scott023
01-11-2014, 01:03 PM
I highly doubt it... I have a 6.2 H2... it only gets 14 unloaded and around 12 towing... if you get what you claimed earlier you better keep it forever....

I also get 11 pulling a 22 foot with a JD 2640 with a bucket and back blade but alas that is on flat land... will that 6.2 pull 15k???;)

And theres a substantial drag difference between a H2 and a lowered Denali. Also think they're geared differently as well.

DHPRO
01-11-2014, 01:33 PM
I highly doubt the claim as well but hey..........

Given DHPRO's short commute and infrequent towing, I think he made the correct purchase going with gas.
His mpg experience was likely the combined result of several factors. Unless he calculated on each fill up and was aware of other conditions its hard to narrow

I did some research and seems this motor is known for being a guzzler. However, I also discovered that mpg should improve as much as 20% as I approach 10k miles. I actually did calc at each fill up and neve got better than 9.5mpg and never went faster than 72mph in cruise generally. The key was to find a speed that kept the tranny in 6th!
I didn't buy based on mpg, but really cause I wanted a Big truck that made towing boats and hot rods easy through mountains. I thnk I need to learn to drive this type of truck, as it's not made to race!
As for recent drive, temps were between 0 and -35 the whole trip and that def didn't help. I clocked mpg going in each direction and the colder it got the worse the mpg to as low as 9.2. When I first got it and drove 250miles around town I was getting closer to 10.5

jeff shelton
01-11-2014, 03:00 PM
I have a 2012 F250 crew cab short bed with the 6.2 and 3.73 gears with 25000 miles. I have gotten 16mpg empty on the interstate. I normally avg 11 around town. I have a 37' fifth wheel and it weights 14000lbs. I averaged 7.5 from atlanta, ga to perris, ca. I had a lot of winds in New Mexico and once I got into Arizona I started running closer to 70-75 vs 60-65 but was manual shifting to keep it from down shifting so hard and redlining the rpm's. Overall, I have been happy with my choice to get the gas vs diesel.
The big reason I didn't get diesel was that my previous truck for work was a diesel. My company would spend around a $1000 per yr on the fuel system and just before the company went bankrupt I bought bad fuel and within 5 miles the fuel water separator light came on and within 20 miles it did $8000 in damage to the fuel system. This vehicle was a 2008 f250.

jaked7138
01-30-2014, 01:19 AM
I had a dmax 2005 - head gasket at 83k miles, tranny dripped oil by the filter from about 50k on, needed all new front end stearing components... so no they don't all last 300k... I now have a ford and 65k miles on that with no issues so far... but it may have it's day in the sun as well. So far it is a much better truck, in that it is a truck, will it go 300k ? you would have to ask the next owner as I likely won't keep it past 125k....

None of the three have it all worked out, all have had issues accross the board, motor, tranny, steering, locking diff, and on and on....look at any forum as it relates to any brand... someone hates and someon loves... and everyones has different luck or curse by brand... otherwise we wouldn't be able to feel better about "our" brand vs "your sucky" brand...:D

But for towing you cannot deny that a diesel is the best way to go... My diesel, towing through CA picking up my 205v was getting around 11 at 70-75mph up an down Donners pass and I was passing gassers that where towing like they were standing still.. just sayn';)

If you don't tow alot or small loads you will NEVER EVER be able to justify the expense of diesel maintenance on the new ones...

I have a duramax with 296,xxx miles on it and have only done regular maintenance and had the injectors changed but nothing else and it still runs great.

Aric'sX15
01-30-2014, 01:27 AM
had the injectors changed but nothing else and it still runs great.

Aren't injectors a thousand or so bucks? lol i would call that a sizable repair.

jaked7138
01-30-2014, 01:49 AM
yes they are but the LB7 duramax diesel engine had bad injectors on it so if you buy a truck past 2004 there shouldn't be injector problems. the LB7 was the trial run if you will from 2001-2004 for chevy and gmc. but thats been the ONLY repair done on my truck

TayMC197
01-30-2014, 07:52 AM
Aren't injectors a thousand or so bucks? lol i would call that a sizable repair.


Well if you prorate the injectors which for the LB7 would be about 1,500 over 296,000...that would be .005 cents a mile.

Not mention on most gas engines that start to have emission sensors fail after about 75k miles that cost hundreds each to repair. I don't see the diesel being costly to own in comparison but an advantage consider most people wont dare own or buy a gas engine with more than a 100k.

We have an 89 ford diesel work truck, beat to hell with daily use. Actually looks pretty good still, and runs like a top. Just over a 100k miles on it but I'd say only about 25% of those miles is on paved roads. Batteries, ball joints and filters... All to be expected..

121k on my lmm duramax now... Only money spent on it is removing all the emission for performance. No transmissions which I had 3 put in my 1500 by this time.

LakeTravisBear
02-18-2014, 12:15 AM
Is the x55 really that much heavier than an x80 with triple axels on the trailer?

ncsucarjock88
02-18-2014, 07:10 AM
Can't comment much on the "new" trucks. I do know that my old 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel gets decent economy vs power. Last year the Dodge was getting the transmission replaced (no complaints - I got 289k out of the first one) and I rented a gas 2013 Ram 2500 4x4 for the semi-annual 4 wheeling trip. Hooked up the rig to that, and got 8.6mpg out of the 5.7 Hemi. Now... I drove it hard - very hard... but I was shocked at the mileage. Good power though, I'll say that.

My diesel, over the exact same route, gets 11-12mpg. It's a lot of hills and mountains, lots of curves, and just a plain challenging drive.

The Ram diesel when unloaded gets me about 17 in town, and about 19-20 on the open road at 70-75mph. I run big All-Terrain tires, and it's 4x4, and I don't drive gently. If I were willing to slow down, it'd break 20mpg easily.

I love my diesel. I've driven the new trucks - and I love the new interiors. I just hate all the electronics, all the new emissions stuff, and the drive by computer feel that I get behind the wheel. Reckon I'm gonna keep my old Dodge forever. Those new ones are pricey when they break - and they all break - regardless of brand.

As much as it pains me to say it, unless you tow a lot, or rack up a ton of miles, a gas engine is probably the better choice now. I'm a diesel guy - love them - but can't deny that for a lot of folks, the gas engine makes more sense.

scott023
02-18-2014, 09:58 AM
Can't comment much on the "new" trucks. I do know that my old 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel gets decent economy vs power. Last year the Dodge was getting the transmission replaced (no complaints - I got 289k out of the first one) and I rented a gas 2013 Ram 2500 4x4 for the semi-annual 4 wheeling trip. Hooked up the rig to that, and got 8.6mpg out of the 5.7 Hemi. Now... I drove it hard - very hard... but I was shocked at the mileage. Good power though, I'll say that.

My diesel, over the exact same route, gets 11-12mpg. It's a lot of hills and mountains, lots of curves, and just a plain challenging drive.

The Ram diesel when unloaded gets me about 17 in town, and about 19-20 on the open road at 70-75mph. I run big All-Terrain tires, and it's 4x4, and I don't drive gently. If I were willing to slow down, it'd break 20mpg easily.

I love my diesel. I've driven the new trucks - and I love the new interiors. I just hate all the electronics, all the new emissions stuff, and the drive by computer feel that I get behind the wheel. Reckon I'm gonna keep my old Dodge forever. Those new ones are pricey when they break - and they all break - regardless of brand.

As much as it pains me to say it, unless you tow a lot, or rack up a ton of miles, a gas engine is probably the better choice now. I'm a diesel guy - love them - but can't deny that for a lot of folks, the gas engine makes more sense.

You're not kidding. I seriously wanted a diesel last year when I bought the new truck. But an 8k option, and fuel being .26 a liter more, hard to justify the extra cost.

curver900
02-18-2014, 10:33 AM
Can't comment much on the "new" trucks. I do know that my old 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel gets decent economy vs power. Last year the Dodge was getting the transmission replaced (no complaints - I got 289k out of the first one) and I rented a gas 2013 Ram 2500 4x4 for the semi-annual 4 wheeling trip. Hooked up the rig to that, and got 8.6mpg out of the 5.7 Hemi. Now... I drove it hard - very hard... but I was shocked at the mileage. Good power though, I'll say that.

My diesel, over the exact same route, gets 11-12mpg. It's a lot of hills and mountains, lots of curves, and just a plain challenging drive.

The Ram diesel when unloaded gets me about 17 in town, and about 19-20 on the open road at 70-75mph. I run big All-Terrain tires, and it's 4x4, and I don't drive gently. If I were willing to slow down, it'd break 20mpg easily.

I love my diesel. I've driven the new trucks - and I love the new interiors. I just hate all the electronics, all the new emissions stuff, and the drive by computer feel that I get behind the wheel. Reckon I'm gonna keep my old Dodge forever. Those new ones are pricey when they break - and they all break - regardless of brand.

As much as it pains me to say it, unless you tow a lot, or rack up a ton of miles, a gas engine is probably the better choice now. I'm a diesel guy - love them - but can't deny that for a lot of folks, the gas engine makes more sense.

I like it when people agree with me... :D

Forrest-X45
02-18-2014, 01:13 PM
Is the x55 really that much heavier than an x80 with triple axels on the trailer?

No you have it reversed. The X80 is much heavier than a X55 and with the triple axle trailer you have the extra weight of the third axle on the trailer.

Forrest-X45
02-18-2014, 01:16 PM
You're not kidding. I seriously wanted a diesel last year when I bought the new truck. But an 8k option, and fuel being .26 a liter more, hard to justify the extra cost.

Yup - very hard to justify the diesel engine with trucks today. Unless you tow a ton (like already mentioned) or you just WANT a diesel. Nothing wrong with that.... :)

curver900
02-18-2014, 02:08 PM
Diesels are like potato chips you JUST can't have one... ;) That torque is addictive... :cool:

scott023
02-18-2014, 02:32 PM
Yup - very hard to justify the diesel engine with trucks today. Unless you tow a ton (like already mentioned) or you just WANT a diesel. Nothing wrong with that.... :)

I really wanted one. Just couldn't justify the cost to run it.

ncsucarjock88
02-18-2014, 09:51 PM
Yeah, if I didn't drive a pretty hefty number of miles a year, and tow a fair bit, it would be difficult to justify. Of course, when the rig is paid for... you can spend a lot in fuel and still come out on the plus side of things...

m5guy
06-16-2014, 11:03 PM
I wanted to follow up with everyone on this thread that I started back in October. Based on a lot of good input from this group, I went out and drove the new Diesel Denali HD, an F250 Powerstroke Platinum and then I drove a Ram 2500...

I never saw it coming, but I picked the Ram. Ordered and received a 2014 Ram 2500 Limited 4x4 short box Cummins.

Here's the rational/breakdown. Pro's: The Ram's ride comfort with the coil spring rear end and the amenities on the inside of the truck are the items that pushed it over the edge for me. The Uconnect infotainment system is very well done, better than the new GM offering in the just redesigned platform. The quality of the leather on the inside, keyless go (push button start), rain sensing wipers, highly configurable instrument cluster all pushed it to the front of the selection list.

The GM won out on exterior styling (personal opinion) and power train. The Cummins is very capable and tows the boat amazingly well. The driveline is a little "clunky" on the Ram but definitely works. The Denali edged out though on the power train - The Allison seems to apply the power from the Duramax a little more effectively. Ford was very nice, but for styling reasons (again, personal preference) it fell to the bottom of the list. Very capable platform, however it ended up 3 on the list.

On the Diesel vs. Gas, I decided that too much truck was just about right. Diesel refills have not been an issue with cleanliness, noise is virtually nonexistent unless I'm going through a drive through. There is no black smoke - Diesel Exhaust Fluid works - and it's really not using that much. It's almost whisper quiet on the inside. Now I know how close to the edge of the limits the 1/2 ton was with the X55. Won't go back to a 1/2 as long as I have the 55.

In short, feel like I made the right decision at the moment. Just put 2k miles on and have pulled the boat and launched quite a few times this year. Mileage, rough guess is about 19 mostly highway-type, and dropping to about 13 when pulling the boat on mostly highway.

Thanks for all the input, we're definitely enjoying the combination now that summer as finally arrived in southwest Michigan!!!

soacj
06-16-2014, 11:13 PM
I'm biased, but great choice! Enjoy your new truck.

pmkkdx
06-17-2014, 10:16 AM
I am biased too ... would have gone the same route but with a long bed. Excellent choice and nice review / comparison between the three.

Aric'sX15
06-17-2014, 01:26 PM
Not biased, but absolutely dont blame you based on the ride and their new interiors. Great choice.

bsloop
06-18-2014, 09:58 AM
Not sure what we are going to say that you don't already know.
The 1500 is at the upper end but doable with the load you have and purposes you ask of it.
......
OK, F it, get the Dmax.

One word - Control. Stepping to the 2500 platform delivers a heavier duty frame you will appreciate.
Ordered and received a 2014 Ram 2500 Limited 4x4 short box Cummins.

Now I know how close to the edge of the limits the 1/2 ton was with the X55. Won't go back to a 1/2 as long as I have the 55.

Thanks for all the input, we're definitely enjoying the combination now that summer as finally arrived in southwest Michigan!!!

Congrats on the purchase, combo looks good :cool:
Glad you made the move. This past weekend we had some boat friends find out what happens when the limits are pushed. 22' deck boat being pulled by a Tahoe SUV ended up in the median. :( They blamed it on a gust of wind but winds were only gusting to mid 20's. Fact is, they got owned with a light, short wheelbase.
(your picture is a much happier one. Hope it stays that way!)

willyt
06-18-2014, 11:42 AM
22 ft deck boat isnt exactly pushing the limits of a tahoe, i tow my xstar all the time and it's fine. based on the fact that the trailer isnt under the boat, i'd blame lack of tow straps and proper tie downs.

Jerseydave
06-18-2014, 09:16 PM
Towed my Formula 303 (30 footer) with my 2001 Yukon (not XL) from NJ to NH once.

After that I bought a 3/4 ton Suburban.......that Yukon was a handful with the 303!

VP46
06-18-2014, 09:28 PM
Towed my Formula 303 (30 footer) with my 2001 Yukon (not XL) from NJ to NH once.

After that I bought a 3/4 ton Suburban.......that Yukon was a handful with the 303!
'

I just bought my wife an '15 XL with 3.42, hoping it will tow like a dream compared to my 05 silverado with 3.42. - have yet to tow with it...fingers crossed

( FWIW I truly bought it for her in hopes that it would fix my "Ferrari" problem AKA "sex" problem - as in I have neither :o..... unlike Aric - that guy has a Ferrari and constantly pulls massive wool, curious...am I the only one that finds it odd he never posts pics of the wool he must be getting???) ;) 8p <-- if you have the toys you gotta prove that you are able to use them appropriately. :D

Aric'sX15
06-18-2014, 09:32 PM
Hey no that was my friend with the ferrari.... haha and ive had the same girlfriend for 3.5 years, who would kill me if I posted pics of her! Haha.

VP46
06-18-2014, 09:40 PM
Hey no that was my friend with the ferrari.... haha and ive had the same girlfriend for 3.5 years, who would kill me if I posted pics of her! Haha.

I know - commend you for not ripping that confused poster on the very subject. you totally held your cool - good for you.

PS my buddy that I've known since I was 3 has 456 but the putz drives it like a honda .... okay okay its not exactly his... he takes care of his 80yr old fathers cars... imo in his situation it's the same diff. Weird thing is he is jealous of my ability to provide for me.. and I am jealous of his intrinsic ability to make the provisions I provide look cheap. It's an odd world.

PSS don't tell her about the pics. I promise I wont say a thing!

Aric'sX15
06-18-2014, 09:43 PM
Ill see if I can find some pics of her laying on my sunpad of my old x15. Haha.

bsloop
06-19-2014, 01:18 PM
22 ft deck boat isnt exactly pushing the limits of a tahoe, i tow my xstar all the time and it's fine. based on the fact that the trailer isnt under the boat, i'd blame lack of tow straps and proper tie downs.

They are actually very conscious, 50 something, trailer boaters that I have boated with for 7 years. They are out much of the summer with an 80 mile RT tow.
Two years ago, they downsized from having a 3rd vehicle (truck) to the just SUV and a car.

Transom straps were in place and did their job. (help keep the boat in contact with the trailer but will not keep the trailer attached to boat in an extreme circumstance)

Their Mariah Jubliee has an NADA base weight of 4300.
The X-star has a base weight of 4600 or 4250.
Add a tandem trailer; 1200 - Weight of either is 5500 + 50 gal of fuel + basic gear = easily 6200.
Without a weight distributing hitch the Tahoe is rated for 5,000 towing. Their case is a great example where a weight Distributing/Anti sway hitch comes into play.
It was "fine" for them for 2+ years. Moderate wind hits them at the wrong time and they go out of control.

I have scaled my 240 at 6800# going into storage with full tank but no weekend gear and before adding 3 70# batteries.
I have towed it with:
1994 Isuzu Trooper - couple miles - on the edge
1998 1500 Suburban - several thousand miles - ok but pushed around in corners and stopping. Never towed over 60mph.
2008 f150 - 1500mi road trip - more stable than suburban but working
2009 1500 Silverado Excab SB - 300 miles - decent but pushed in corners
2008 3500 GMC SA CC LB - 15,000mi - no comparison on straight line control, corners or braking.
I still toy with adding Electric over Hydraulic. A heavier, longer tow vehicle better masks the issue of surge brakes not working until momentum has shifted but does not solve the problem.

SUV has short wheel base and lighter springs that make them great for what they are intended to do but not strong weight carrying platforms.

I am glad OP made the choice he did, especially considering the extra weight and family load.
He now realizes the difference between "fine" and in Control.