PDA

View Full Version : LT1/LTR Crank Position Sensors


gsxrjtt
11-09-2013, 01:07 PM
Ok so my motor is in ready to go and turning over and has come down to the crank position sensors. There are 2 in the motor only made from 93-94 .. I have looked and looked even the guys at Bay Area Watersports do not know where to get these. They are old stock part that are not made by ilmore any more. Yes I have checked the regular lt1 sensors do not work..I need to find these or find an 93-94 lt1 motor that is of no use to any one and willing to sell the sensors I have attached a pic of the exact part I need x2. Please ask around or let me know of anything.. This is the only part I need to get this boat back to running.

102933
102934


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

mikeg205
11-09-2013, 01:29 PM
Try www.rockauto.com these look close - maybe they can find a cross reference...

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=4556991&cc=1041332

mikeg205
11-09-2013, 01:34 PM
Try www.rockauto.com these look close - maybe they can find a cross reference...

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=4556991&cc=1041332

here's another link... I believe this is what many on corvette forums are getting.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/1669938-96-lt-1-crank-sensor.html

1redTA
11-09-2013, 01:45 PM
I use to use these guys. Great prices and service

http://www.samtaylor.com/

jafo9
11-09-2013, 01:46 PM
those look remarkably like the CPS on my 02 LTR. Are yours pressed into a bracket? If so, how the heck did you get them out of the bracket?

gsxrjtt
11-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Already been that rout and I bought them they are not the same .. The problem is it was an only marine part made from ilmore and no cross reference for automotive part

102937


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

mikeg205
11-09-2013, 03:28 PM
Already been that rout and I bought them they are not the same .. The problem is it was an only marine part made from ilmore and no cross reference for automotive part

102937


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

intellek is a delphi part not ilmore - but maybe made to ilmore spec?

mikeg205
11-09-2013, 03:32 PM
I'll ask chuck over at Indmar... he's really good at getting back to me.

gsxrjtt
11-09-2013, 03:34 PM
That would be awesome thanks

mikeg205
11-09-2013, 03:38 PM
That would be awesome thanks

I wonder what's different on the similar parts - must be a signal change or something simple I guess. Did you talk to Ilmor?

gsxrjtt
11-09-2013, 03:41 PM
Dave From BAWS has talked to them many a time..

mikeg205
11-09-2013, 03:42 PM
Dave From BAWS has talked to them many a time..

Frustrating and I don't have the issue.. :(

gsxrjtt
11-09-2013, 04:17 PM
Ehh it's just .. You have a boat that you want to get back together and the part isn't made anymore frustrating is quite correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

snork
11-09-2013, 06:07 PM
'''''''''''

jgraham37128
11-09-2013, 06:25 PM
Try LEX at Rambo Marine in Huntsville, AL. He's been around forever.

mikeg205
11-10-2013, 08:44 AM
I wonder if it uses a Cadillac STS crank position sensor since the engine uses the Northstar ignition module?

Table Rocker
11-10-2013, 09:53 AM
I wonder if it uses a Cadillac STS crank position sensor since the engine uses the Northstar ignition module?
That is the direction I think I would be looking.

gsxrjtt
11-10-2013, 10:15 AM
What year and motor would i look for ? I have a caddy dealer close to me close to me

mikeg205
11-10-2013, 10:30 AM
What year and motor would i look for ? I have a caddy dealer close to me close to me

1993/1994 is when the northstar thing.

found these guys too... http://www.bwdbrand.com/ROOT-Home/Content.aspx

aftermarket electronics.

Table Rocker
11-10-2013, 10:32 AM
Everything I am finding on the Caddy is too long. Has anybody heard back from Indmar regarding a cross?

mikeg205
11-10-2013, 03:03 PM
Everything I am finding on the Caddy is too long. Has anybody heard back from Indmar regarding a cross?

Waiting for Indmar - probably during the week.

mikeg205
11-10-2013, 04:57 PM
Here's a lead - I wonder if this is correct. found some old threads - Indmar part number s556036 and / or s556032.

http://www.perfprotech.com/sensor-throttle-position-lt1-indmar-pn-s556032-ind556032/product/374600?search=IND556032

mikeg205
11-10-2013, 05:09 PM
FI Skier found the parts in the US but never shared what he got .. :(

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=51056&highlight=Indmar+part+556036

gsxrjtt
11-10-2013, 06:23 PM
I know I have heard stores of a couple people who have found the parts but they were usually "the last ones in the shelf" and they purchased them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

gsxrjtt
11-10-2013, 06:28 PM
Thanks again just sent him an email


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Table Rocker
11-10-2013, 07:14 PM
Here's a lead - I wonder if this is correct. found some old threads - Indmar part number s556036 and / or s556032.

http://www.perfprotech.com/sensor-throttle-position-lt1-indmar-pn-s556032-ind556032/product/374600?search=IND556032
That shows Throttle Position Sensor?

mikeg205
11-10-2013, 07:31 PM
That shows Throttle Position Sensor?

Yes.. I just threw up the link cuz I found the reference to the crank position sensor

mikeg205
11-11-2013, 10:14 AM
Marine parts source says part still active...


Miguel Martinez
Marine Parts Source
Toll free: 1.866.388.0390 | Direct: 615.285.1728
mmartinez@marinepartssource.com
www.marinepartssource.com

gsxrjtt
11-11-2013, 10:24 AM
Just called. They said it was an ACTIVE part number but have been sold out for 7 months. ?? he is calling indmar to see what the deal is

gsxrjtt
11-11-2013, 11:42 AM
SSSSSSSSUUCCCCEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! MIKE205 Thanks a ton.. Talked to indmar and they Have just gotten 7 of these sensors from a closed wear house as I hear. They still do not make these and do not know who or when they will be reproduced. I just ordered four of them.. yes is know 2 for me and 2 for future boat or any TTer with the same needs as mine.

mikeg205
11-11-2013, 11:48 AM
Awesome now I just got to find the cross reference. This is why love this forum

Waterskibum
11-11-2013, 12:03 PM
SSSSSSSSUUCCCCEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! MIKE205 Thanks a ton.. Talked to indmar and they Have just gotten 7 of these sensors from a closed wear house as I hear. They still do not make these and do not know who or when they will be reproduced. I just ordered four of them.. yes is know 2 for me and 2 for future boat or any TTer with the same needs as mine.

Sweet! Calling the shop now to get two for me. Mine are getting iffy and do not want to be down either.

gsxrjtt
11-11-2013, 12:24 PM
call that num mike205 put up .. free shipping

mikeg205
11-12-2013, 10:36 AM
Got a reply from Indmar - only 7 left - then no more from indmar... working on getting info from Delphi.

Table Rocker
11-12-2013, 10:56 AM
Got a reply from Indmar - only 7 left - then no more from indmar... working on getting info from Delphi.Thanks Mike!

mikeg205
11-13-2013, 12:13 AM
ok...delco remy part is obsolete 10456123 - so the chase is on for the interchange.

mikeg205
11-13-2013, 03:38 PM
okay not good news - not getting any cross references on this part from any manufacturer. What I believe we need to do is get the spec's on this product (neither AC Delco or Remy) have this info. I am hoping Indmar will have the specs they wanted for this piece of engine management and then we can find another crank sensor that will do the same thing.



Specs look something like this...

Relative timing accuracy ± 1°

High stability—360° repeatability ± 0.1°

Operating temperature range -40°C to 150°C

Air gap with appropriate target wheel 0.1 mm to 2.5 mm

Environment Designed to withstand salt spray, humidity, thermal changes, automotive fluids, and general automotive environments

Operating voltage 4.5 V to 16 V

Output voltage (high state) V pull-up (3-wire), or 14 mA (2-wire)

Output voltage (low state) < 0.5 V (3-wire) or 7 mA (2-wire)

Current draw ≤ 16 mA

Rise time < 5 μ (Rpw = 500 Ω/C, out = 10 ρF)

Fall time < 2 μ

Output current limit < 50 mA

Output leakage current < 10 μA

gsxrjtt
11-14-2013, 04:15 PM
Xmas came early today


103080


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

mikeg205
11-14-2013, 04:45 PM
[how does it compare in size to the other ones you bought?

gsxrjtt
11-14-2013, 06:24 PM
exactly..... going in the morning to shove them in

Rockman
11-14-2013, 06:53 PM
Xmas came early today


103080


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Where did you get them from?

gsxrjtt
11-14-2013, 06:57 PM
Indmar... they had from what i was told leftovers from a closed warehouse. there were 7 and as i know of they sold them all.

mikeg205
11-14-2013, 07:25 PM
Where did you get them from?

I am on the hunt Rockman - Rambo Marine has one and I know Midwest Mastercraft has one. If you wanted to get some. I have contacted Indmar and many dealers and learned Indmar is looking for a solution.

mikeg205
11-21-2013, 07:18 PM
NORCAL Mastercraft says they can get these crank position sensors... $37.50 each... and there is inventory... if you have a 93-96 (i believe) LT1 - I would order a spare pair.

mike

jim826
01-24-2014, 11:24 AM
My local dealer thinks that I may have the same issues with my 2001 Prostar 209. I talked with one mechanic that is working on another engine trying to use an automotive sensor with a spacer to adjust for the length, but I don't know if he was successful. If the sensors can't be found, then what is the solution?

mikeg205
01-24-2014, 11:29 AM
Working with http://www.lakewisconsinskiboats.com/ - they think they found a retrofit but needs a way to get it to mount correctly. They are contacting Indmar to make sure they get it right - looking for some signal specs.

As soon as it's ready I will post up how and where to get them.

mike

Waterskibum
01-24-2014, 01:02 PM
Working with http://www.lakewisconsinskiboats.com/ - they think they found a retrofit but needs a way to get it to mount correctly. They are contacting Indmar to make sure they get it right - looking for some signal specs.

As soon as it's ready I will post up how and where to get them.

mike

Thanks for keeping up on this Mike. I never did get a set, and mine are iffy to say the least.

mikeg205
01-24-2014, 01:12 PM
Thanks for keeping up on this Mike. I never did get a set, and mine are iffy to say the least.

no problem - I think it's goofy there's no direct replacement.... but we'll git 'r dun....

jim826
01-24-2014, 04:35 PM
I know they are a large company, but does Indmar even care? All I ever see or hear is "we're working on it" If this is such a critical part, then I would think public relation wise, they would want it resolved.

mikeg205
01-24-2014, 04:40 PM
I know they are a large company, but does Indmar even care? I'll I ever see or hear is "we're working on it" If this is such a critical part, then i would think public relation wise, they would want it resolved.

It has not been an issue until recently. Indmar had inventory of these items. Yes, Indmar is concerned about it. I have corresponded with Chuck their president about it. Hang in there it... I believe we'll have it soon.

jim826
01-24-2014, 05:30 PM
Thanks for the reassurance Mike.

I apologize for my frustration, but I've spoken with dealers/mechanics in NC, SC, GA, AL, CA, WI, TN, and TX and they all have the same story about their frustration also. Charlie is working on a plan, and I appreciate his help, but it just appearing that Indmar is relying on others instead of jumping on a solution themselves.

Summer is not that far away, and I'd rather picture my family on the lake instead of paying big bucks to retrofit a $35.00 part.

mikeg205
01-24-2014, 06:06 PM
Yes I can understand ... But it's like car clubs .... They find solutions to problems . I am sure they thought we could find a cps at autozone... Unfortunately not the case.. Remy does not even have the specs any more


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jim826
01-24-2014, 06:11 PM
Do you know if Delphi kept the specs since they made the part?

mikeg205
01-24-2014, 06:17 PM
Someone with a caliper, oscilloscope and an LT1 motor could solve this in a weekend. I know there's an electrical match out there ... It's the fit I believe us the issue. I don't think it's a priority for Indmar... But I agree they should help in a more timely manner. I will call them Monday morning again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cloaked
01-24-2014, 06:49 PM
..... All I ever see or hear is "we're working on it" .

..... Hang in there it... I believe we'll have it soon.

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Same apple, same tree.... :D

.

mikeg205
01-24-2014, 07:00 PM
Yeah... But I don't give up ;) :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Waterskibum
01-28-2014, 12:12 PM
Yeah... But I don't give up ;) :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And we definitely appreciate it Mike!! If I knew how to use the oscilloscope and that other stuff you mentioned I would pull the princess out of the garage and fire her up :D

mikeg205
01-28-2014, 03:18 PM
I believe the answer lies here...

http://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/sensors/variable-reluctance-sensor.pdf

If someone could get me the diameter and length of the current sensor that would be great.

mike

mikeg205
01-28-2014, 06:48 PM
Update - spoke with Chuck Rowe of Indmar today... They are looking for a direct replacement from GM - so you can expect a long wait.

Lake Wisconsin Ski Boats is working on another solution - :( -

What we need is the right length right diameter type sensor. easier said than done right..

Not giving up...

mike

Waterskibum
01-30-2014, 12:00 PM
Mike,
Thanks for keeping up on this. I'll get out in the garage in the next day or so and get the measurements. Worst case I'll ping GSXRJTT and we can get them from him cause he has those brand new ones.

jim826
01-30-2014, 01:45 PM
here are the measurements that I have. Please note that they were not taken with very precise instruments, but rather a tape measure and my bad eyesight.

Overall length - 2 1/2"
Length from bottom of bracket to end with magnet tip - 1 5/16"
Diameter - 3/4"

It is also a two pole connection with the same basic opening width as the diameter.

Mike - so Indmar is working with GM to make a replacement, because we are all pretty confident that there is not one currently made for any other auto application in this size. Did they give you any hint of a time frame?

Waterskibum
01-31-2014, 09:07 AM
Cool thanks for getting the measurements Jim. Hopefully Mike can shake some trees and figure this out.

mikeg205
01-31-2014, 10:01 AM
here are the measurements that I have. Please note that they were not taken with very precise instruments, but rather a tape measure and my bad eyesight.

Overall length - 2 1/2"
Length from bottom of bracket to end with magnet tip - 1 5/16"
Diameter - 3/4"

It is also a two pole connection with the same basic opening width as the diameter.

Mike - so Indmar is working with GM to make a replacement, because we are all pretty confident that there is not one currently made for any other auto application in this size. Did they give you any hint of a time frame?

Indmar asked GM to help. I personally that's the wrong way to go. They put a different ignition system in the cars that used that engine - which I read was not so great "Optispark".

Indmar should have the spec's on the ignition system - which should easily let them find the correct CPS. The CPS plugs right into the Northstar ignition module.

Magnet Tip? Can you shoot me a picture of the sensor? The one that started this thread does not gave the visible.

jim826
01-31-2014, 01:35 PM
Hope this helps visualize the metal tip on end.

105691

105692

mikeg205
01-31-2014, 01:39 PM
what are the dimensions of that magnet tip? Any other markings on it? It looks a bit different than the ones Jessie posted early in this thread. Any hints are helpful...thanks... the measurement on the magnet tip will help me when I contact delpi

jim826
01-31-2014, 05:36 PM
the metal tip is appx 5/16" long and 1/8" wide. If you look at the new ones that gsxrjtt posted on page 4, I think you can see the tip on those also.

Do you know when GM switched over to the Optispark? The main reason I ask is most of the engines with this issue seem to be from the mid 90s and my engine is a 2001.

mikeg205
01-31-2014, 05:42 PM
the metal tip is appx 5/16" long and 1/8" wide. If you look at the new ones that gsxrjtt posted on page 4, I think you can see the tip on those also.

Do you know when GM switched over to the Optispark? The main reason I ask is most of the engines with this issue seem to be from the mid 90s and my engine is a 2001.

Is there any part numbers on your CPS?

Do you have optispark in yours? Which MEFI (ECU) do you have in your boat - located near back. And does it have the northstar ignition?

The dimensions you gave me just now will help grab a similar part - the magnetic pick up has to be the right size to match the tooth on the reluctor wheel.

can you post a picture of your motor?

jim826
02-01-2014, 05:12 PM
The engine is a 2001 GM Power Vortec MX LTR 5.7L Multi-port EFI with Northstar Ignition
I had it manually winterized and have it in storage so I can't answer the other questions. I'm not much of a mechanic. I'm just hoping for some solutions before summer rolls around.

105727

mikeg205
02-01-2014, 05:51 PM
Interesting... on the LTR..... I will be calling Delphi this coming week.

mikeg205
02-04-2014, 03:52 PM
Action water in Fenton found a replacement $120


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jim826
02-04-2014, 07:38 PM
That is great news! Little pricey but cheaper than any alternative. So they have found a crosssover part and tested it in an engine?

mikeg205
02-04-2014, 08:00 PM
That is great news! Little pricey but cheaper than any alternative. So they have found a crosssover part and tested it in an engine?

I believe yes, I believe it's a cross over from automotive, we will find out what it is as soon as somebody buys one and we see who makes it. We'll find alternatives - but the good news is that a solution exists.

mikeg205
02-05-2014, 12:39 PM
Getting closer... in qty these things are $55.

http://sensorso.com/home/part/part/VR-VR49B-HO-S75A-TV5&connectWireCode=TV5-2

jim826
02-05-2014, 01:21 PM
So the guys at Action have used this part? I looked at the spec sheet and it all looks Greek to me. Who would be the contact person to speak to up there?

mikeg205
02-05-2014, 01:34 PM
So the guys at Action have used this part? I looked at the spec sheet and it all looks Greek to me. Who would be the contact person to speak to up there?

Call Bruce

Bruce Jesionowski
Action Water Sports - Fenton
810-629-1342
brucej@actionwater.com

$120 really isn't bad for a price that should last a long time.

Waterskibum
02-06-2014, 11:04 AM
Damn $120? Seems pricey considering Jessie got them for like $40 each; but yep, when you have the corner on the market, and you need them to get your boat running............

It's like the sets of brand new OEM floor mats for my Integra Type R going for $300 bucks on eBay because Honda no longer makes them. If you want them, you gotta pay.

mikeg205
02-06-2014, 11:28 AM
I talked to a company that makes these parts. 95% of the type of crank position sensors are the same. They have to be the VR type (Variable Reluctor) - unfortunately when talking to Standard Motor products and other - companies, the sensors are indexed by application not size.

AWS sports did take the time to do the research so I don't begrudge them wanting to make a profit. But I am not giving up.

I think it's good new that they are available - The only thing I did not like is the price AWS quoted for the Indmar ones when Jessie got the Indmar ones thru a dealer for the $40ish price.

The Indmar dealers will probably put pressure on AWS to disclose the solution - so the $120 may be a short lived price.

I wouldn't sacrifice a boating season for $120 or $240 for 2 of them. AWS is a great dealer, I am thrilled to know there's a solution out there.

I let Indmar know there's a solution and where to find it. We'll see where that leads.

I am still waiting for replies from some other companies.

jim826
02-06-2014, 12:09 PM
Bruce is out until next week, but the guy I spoke with said they brought in a lt1 just to try out the new sensors and they worked great. I'll probably go ahead and get two to have in hand when I take my boat out of storage.

I know I have another couple of months, and part of me wants to wait and see if other options open up, but the other part says take the fix while you can...

I wish Mike could twist ACW's arm into posting a picture so I can see what I'm ordering. The link and spec sheet didn't help in that regard.

mikeg205
02-06-2014, 12:10 PM
Cool finding alternatives to the GM controller - here's one for a TBI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzuT_IIethE

http://www.diyautotune.com/

need to read more on this.. :)

Waterskibum
02-06-2014, 01:05 PM
Bruce is out until next week, but the guy I spoke with said they brought in a lt1 just to try out the new sensors and they worked great. I'll probably go ahead and get two to have in hand when I take my boat out of storage.

I know I have another couple of months, and part of me wants to wait and see if other options open up, but the other part says take the fix while you can...

I wish Mike could twist ACW's arm into posting a picture so I can see what I'm ordering. The link and spec sheet didn't help in that regard.

Jim honestly I would wait until closer to spring. Mike or Indmar might have a solution. Personally I am not going to pay $120 for a $40 part. I can see making a profit; but that is ridiculous.

Mike I don't know if this will be any help or not; but came across this website with detailed specs on the Northstar DIS. Maybe some of the specs can help? http://lukeskaff.com/?page_id=380

I am going to start scouring the wrecking yards for V-8 Cadillacs with Northstar.

mikeg205
02-06-2014, 01:06 PM
Jim honestly I would wait until closer to spring. Mike or Indmar might have a solution. Personally I am not going to pay $120 for a $40 part. I can see making a profit; but that is ridiculous.

Mike I don't know if this will be any help or not; but came across this website with detailed specs on the Northstar DIS. Maybe some of the specs can help? http://lukeskaff.com/?page_id=380

I am going to start scouring the wrecking yards for V-8 Cadillacs with Northstar.

the caddy sensor is available - but is too long and narrow - easy to find at any automotive parts store.. 1993 allante, various eldorados etc use it.

Waterskibum
02-06-2014, 01:21 PM
the caddy sensor is available - but is too long and narrow - easy to find at any automotive parts store.. 1993 allante, various eldorados etc use it.

Oh darn that is right. Jessie tried using them. Did Indmar ever say which model auto they took the sensor from, because the sensor mount is cast into the timing cover, so it has to be a factory GM LT-1 cover. I doubt GM custom made the covers for Indmar? Well maybe?

mikeg205
02-06-2014, 01:34 PM
Oh darn that is right. Jessie tried using them. Did Indmar ever say which model auto they took the sensor from, because the sensor mount is cast into the timing cover, so it has to be a factory GM LT-1 cover. I doubt GM custom made the covers for Indmar? Well maybe?

Something strange on the GM direction... LT1's used optispark in that year.. the fit of the LT-1 of that year is right but the type of sensor may be different.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Crankshaft-Sensor/_/R-ECHCSS109_0248529560

Waterskibum
02-06-2014, 02:04 PM
Darn ya Mike you are right. I do not think any LT-1's used the Northstar ignition except maybe the Cadillacs. I know the Camaros, Firebirds, and Impalas all used Optispark. That one you just posted from Napa, what is that one?

I just posted it to show how similar it looks... darn this issue.. lol... it's becoming an obsession... ;)

mikeg205
02-06-2014, 05:36 PM
Okay - have a lead - need to check it out. the saturn used a 4 banger version of the northstar - kinda.. was MFI and had a reluctor wheel...

this part may work... http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Crankshaft-Position-Sensor/1994-Saturn-SW2/_/N-j17ftZ9gslr?itemIdentifier=91150_726118_0_

going to have it checked out the harness is a but different but it may work - going to get measurements on it.

Table Rocker
02-06-2014, 10:20 PM
Oh darn that is right. Jessie tried using them. Did Indmar ever say which model auto they took the sensor from, because the sensor mount is cast into the timing cover, so it has to be a factory GM LT-1 cover. I doubt GM custom made the covers for Indmar? Well maybe?
(On my '96) As I recall, the sensor mount is a cast aluminum Indmar plate that mounts in front of the timing cover and provides mounts for the alternator and belt tensioner as well. I remember painting mine a couple of years ago. It has Indmar and a part number cast into the front of it.

Waterskibum
02-07-2014, 10:24 AM
(On my '96) As I recall, the sensor mount is a cast aluminum Indmar plate that mounts in front of the timing cover and provides mounts for the alternator and belt tensioner as well. I remember painting mine a couple of years ago. It has Indmar and a part number cast into the front of it.

I meant to pull the cover off mine last night and look at the mount. I will this weekend. Mine is a 93, so could be different since it is the first year.

Sweet Mike! Let us know what you find out. If it looks promising I'll pull one of mine out and go to Autozone and compare them.

mikeg205
02-07-2014, 11:22 AM
I meant to pull the cover off mine last night and look at the mount. I will this weekend. Mine is a 93, so could be different since it is the first year.

Sweet Mike! Let us know what you find out. If it looks promising I'll pull one of mine out and go to Autozone and compare them.

The Saturn one is too long... :( --- what needs to happen is if someone could just sit in autozone and hunt thru the VR type sensors.

I am going to dig a little deeper.

mgs96ps
02-07-2014, 11:34 AM
Not sure if the attached picture will help. But I snapped this last year when I replaced water pump. No comments on MCOCD...I have since cleaned thing up. Part number on plate is there.


96 LT1

Table Rocker
02-07-2014, 11:55 AM
Not sure if the attached picture will help. But I snapped this last year when I replaced water pump. No comments on MCOCD...I have since cleaned thing up. Part number on plate is there.


96 LT1That refreshes my memory. The plate only provides for the sensors, the alternator plate is another piece. Both are Indmar castings.

On an automotive LT-1, it looks like only the '96 had a CPS and it was located in the timing cover with the wheel being inside the cover. I don't think they ever had the trigger wheel where ours is behind the harmonic balancer.

mikeg205
02-07-2014, 12:03 PM
Here's another to try. SMP - PC-134 - 2 pole a little shorter - all these parts listed by application - not dimension or type - but most GM application are variable reluctor type.

mikeg205
02-07-2014, 12:05 PM
Not sure if the attached picture will help. But I snapped this last year when I replaced water pump. No comments on MCOCD...I have since cleaned thing up. Part number on plate is there.


96 LT1

I bet we find one and have to him it. the one I did find appears too long - but a shim would work - saw that solution on youtube to solve a problem on a car - was actually a service bulletin cuz reluctor wheel was scraping sensor.

Waterskibum
02-07-2014, 12:13 PM
Yep thanks for everybody's postings, and for Mike not giving up yet! I'll pull a sensor and head to auto zone tomorrow and dig through sensors.

Not sure if the attached picture will help. But I snapped this last year when I replaced water pump. No comments on MCOCD...I have since cleaned thing up. Part number on plate is there.


96 LT1
Could swear my sensors are on the other side. I'll verify tonight.

mikeg205
02-07-2014, 12:21 PM
Okay - Here are some more to look at I am starting to build a list. Changed the thought process a bit.. the LT1 Indmar development and testing took place a couple years before release so I found the Cadillac Cimmaron - similar ignition control module - similar Crank position sensors

The mount may be a bit different - looks like one Jessie tried - but these are different part numbers and they match the ignition module - visually.

SMP PC7 - ACDelco 213-336

********update******** Jessie tried the PC7 type :( --- I should crossed checked his GM part number. poop!

I wonder why it did not work - its a VR style - Jessie what happened when you tried the other one you bought? No Start?

gsxrjtt
02-07-2014, 02:16 PM
JUST AN FYI ..... MY 1993 LIMITED is running like a CHAMP... HUGE THANKS to CHUCK the LT1 Genius and old owner of BAY AREA WATERSPORTS.. Helped me fix a starting issue with my boat now it starts every time..

mgs96ps
02-07-2014, 02:21 PM
JUST AN FYI ..... MY 1993 LIMITED is running like a CHAMP... HUGE THANKS to DAVE the owner of BAY AREA WATERSPORTS.. Helped me fix a starting issue with my boat now it starts every time..

Good to hear...are you still going to sell? Also, would you care to share what needed tweaked. As an LT1 owner it is always good to stock pile knowledge.

mgs96ps
02-07-2014, 02:24 PM
Just found out on another thread.

gsxrjtt
02-07-2014, 02:31 PM
Yes still for sale.. I just didnt feel right letting it go with out firing right.

So After about 6 hours of checking, rechecking, hooking up the computer and diag. Everything was checking out ok with no codes. Finally traced with proab to ignition, From there we checked grounds and voltages, Then chuck Finally looked at the connector that goes to the ign module. found if we wiggled or held it we would get some fire and coughing from the motor. so we took of the connector and found some of the pins were off so tried as much as he could to realign them. Put the connector back on and used a pin through the back of the connector to apply ample pressure to the connections and BAM about two turn overs and it fired right up. Turned if off then on fired up. Let it run for 5-10 sec and throttled it up to blow out any build up in the engine. turned it off then back on again.

mgs96ps
02-07-2014, 02:38 PM
So the real question here is.....how many good crank position senors do you have now- 4 or 6?

Want to send (2) my way? Send PM if you will sell.

gsxrjtt
02-07-2014, 02:47 PM
2 new went into boat I only have 2 new left.. Keeping those for future LT1 if I purchase one.

mikeg205
02-07-2014, 03:25 PM
Yes still for sale.. I just didnt feel right letting it go with out firing right.

So After about 6 hours of checking, rechecking, hooking up the computer and diag. Everything was checking out ok with no codes. Finally traced with proab to ignition, From there we checked grounds and voltages, Then chuck Finally looked at the connector that goes to the ign module. found if we wiggled or held it we would get some fire and coughing from the motor. so we took of the connector and found some of the pins were off so tried as much as he could to realign them. Put the connector back on and used a pin through the back of the connector to apply ample pressure to the connections and BAM about two turn overs and it fired right up. Turned if off then on fired up. Let it run for 5-10 sec and throttled it up to blow out any build up in the engine. turned it off then back on again.


Rockman had a similar issue... Connector on that ignition module


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mikeg205
02-07-2014, 03:25 PM
Stopped in at Napa took a look at the PC7 Crank Position Sensor. It's measurements

were - 18mm(.71) in diameter - 2.16 deep - the nipple was .19 inches. I noticed that this sensor is used in very many applications.

They did not have the PC122 (standard motor products) or the AC Delco 213-336.

Waterskibum
02-10-2014, 09:26 AM
Sorry all I got busy on projects this weekend, and could not get the CPS out of the boat and go to Autozone. Any updates this weekend Mike?

mikeg205
02-10-2014, 11:09 AM
Sorry all I got busy on projects this weekend, and could not get the CPS out of the boat and go to Autozone. Any updates this weekend Mike?

No updates.. have a call into Indmar this AM -

jim826
02-15-2014, 03:35 PM
Charlie at Lake WI Ski boats thinks that he may have found them also. he is waiting for some specs to be sure. I'll keep us posted if I learn anything new. I haven't ordered anything yet from ACW.

mikeg205
02-15-2014, 04:39 PM
Charlie at Lake WI Ski boats thinks that he may have found them also. he is waiting for some specs to be sure. I'll keep us posted if I learn anything new. I haven't ordered anything yet from ACW.

awesome! I think $120 is not that bad for a boat part unless that part can be bought for less $35 at an auto parts store. Also, we need guys like Action, Midwest to be able to keep their lights on :) --

But it's also fun to find these parts. Too bad I don't have an LT1 in the garage and an oscilloscope - would have been a fun facet to this project.

Cloaked
02-15-2014, 04:48 PM
:popcorn:

supreme112279
02-15-2014, 05:07 PM
I've noticed this thread. Is this something I should be concerned with because I have an lt1. I tore down an lt1 a few years ago from a camaro and didn't notice a sensor. I"ll scope out my motor tonight and look for what you guys are talking about

Table Rocker
02-15-2014, 05:13 PM
I've noticed this thread. Is this something I should be concerned with because I have an lt1. I tore down an lt1 a few years ago from a camaro and didn't notice a sensor. I"ll scope out my motor tonight and look for what you guys are talking aboutSince Indmar used the NorthStar ignition, they have two crank position sensors that the Camaro didn't have. I would think it is uncommon for one to fail, but if you need one you want to be able to get one.

mikeg205
02-15-2014, 05:47 PM
only thing that I have found to make them fail is heat. Comaro used optispark I believe - but I most likely am wrong. The MC Crank Position Sensor is a VR type and develops and analog voltage signal. The critical points are diameter to fit in the hole, length - not too long and not too short, and then the mount.

here's how it sets up -- prolly not the completely correct diagram but prolly very close.

supreme112279
02-15-2014, 06:09 PM
The camero was optispark. I guess maybe it's a north star ignition system thing. Did anyone call napa and tell them a 350 that was in a caddy?

supreme112279
02-15-2014, 06:10 PM
Table rocker. Where do I need to look for these sensors. Back of engine where the crank is?

Table Rocker
02-15-2014, 06:19 PM
Table rocker. Where do I need to look for these sensors. Back of engine where the crank is?
Right behind the harmonic balancer.

mikeg205
02-15-2014, 06:19 PM
Table rocker. Where do I need to look for these sensors. Back of engine where the crank is?

They are up front - second pic shows where the runs from CPS to ignition module.

supreme112279
02-15-2014, 06:46 PM
We'll I have located the parts on my mc. I called the local auto parts store. It's 54.95 plus shipping BUT....I have to check back Monday because they don't stock it. I'll have to get back with you guys Monday to see what the deal is. He has to sent an email to someone to tell me the delivery. It's a special order item. Basically. Don't get too excited

Cloaked
02-15-2014, 06:51 PM
We'll I have located the parts on my mc. I called the local auto parts store. It's 54.95 plus shipping BUT....I have to check back Monday because they don't stock it. I'll have to get back with you guys Monday to see what the deal is. He has to sent an email to someone to tell me the delivery. It's a special order item. Basically. Don't get too excited
:popcorn: :popcorn:

mikeg205
02-15-2014, 06:55 PM
what part number do you look at? the one early up in the thread supposedly does not work.

the one that cross references a SMP PC7, AC Delco 213-336 or GM 10457661.

SMP PC122 or ACDelco 213-336 may work - I looked at a NAPA CSS109 - did not seem like the right size - .71 inches diameter 5mm nipple (.19 inches) and 2.16 inches deep - but all these are VR type sensors.

The northstar sensors are too long and too thin.

supreme112279
02-15-2014, 07:06 PM
I didn't get a part number. I asked to a 1996 caddy crank position sensor. If I take your cross references from the previous post and call the guy back. Helpful?

supreme112279
02-15-2014, 07:09 PM
One more note from my call. The 96 caddy with a north star was only available with a 4.6 v8

mikeg205
02-15-2014, 07:36 PM
this is what they will be giving you.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Crankshaft-Sensor/_/R-ECHCSS1327_0372795035

too long. the original sensor was not used in any automotive applications. the SMP PC7 and the PC122 may work - but no way to test

Waterskibum
02-17-2014, 02:01 PM
I had the sinus infection from hell most of last week, and I have not been able to take one out and try to locate a replacement either. Gonna try this weekend.

Tristarboarder
03-01-2014, 10:57 PM
This was a fun thread to follow with the likes and work of Jessie, Mike, and skibum. Thread kind of died....any word on any replacement success for this part (besides AWS deal)?

mikeg205
03-02-2014, 12:55 AM
Some is testing a similar part that was found. Current part - waiting for results. Thread not dead just the hunt now requires some testing...

jim826
03-04-2014, 12:58 PM
Yes I have been biding my time here in the winter months. I feel better knowing that ACW has a part, but I'm also waiting on Charlie up at Lake Wisconsin. Now that the threat of freezing weather is diminishing here in SC, I'll be back on the hunt...

Waterskibum
03-05-2014, 08:06 AM
Ya I have my friends at NAPA trying to locate replacement too. No luck yet.

Bruce-ActionWater
03-05-2014, 04:05 PM
I have tried just about every CPS out there. Had wire harness's made, made spacers and had ECM reprogrammed. I have not found anything other than the originals to work. We stock the original senors.

mgs96ps
03-05-2014, 04:23 PM
I have tried just about every CPS out there. Had wire harness's made, made spacers and had ECM reprogrammed. I have not found anything other than the originals to work. We stock the original senors.

checkmate.

Hopefully all other sensors, (outside of the CPS), have cross references to auto parts and/or can easily be identified and/or made to work.

Bruce-ActionWater
03-05-2014, 04:44 PM
checkmate.

Hopefully all other sensors, (outside of the CPS), have cross references to auto parts and/or can easily be identified and/or made to work.


I have not had issues with any other sensors so far.

mikeg205
03-05-2014, 05:20 PM
Can you reorder these sensors or is there a finite supply?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bruce-ActionWater
03-05-2014, 05:58 PM
Can you reorder these sensors or is there a finite supply?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I check last week they were still available.

mikeg205
03-05-2014, 06:34 PM
When I check last week they were still available.

If they are the Remy parts - then they are no longer being manufactured - so there's a limited supply. If the ones you are selling are still being manufactured you found replacement - awesome find.

Why would you reprogram the ECM when the CPS' plug into the ignition module? It's a VR GM type sensor that needs to produces an analog sine wave based on the reluctor wheel spacing.

It would have been fun to watch the process of testing the non working CPS'.

Still and awesome find and a fair price to TT members... now inquiring minds want to know more...

:) :D -

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 08:57 AM
If they are the Remy parts - then they are no longer being manufactured - so there's a limited supply. If the ones you are selling are still being manufactured you found replacement - awesome find.

Why would you reprogram the ECM when the CPS' plug into the ignition module? It's a VR GM type sensor that needs to produces an analog sine wave based on the reluctor wheel spacing.

It would have been fun to watch the process of testing the non working CPS'.

Still and awesome find and a fair price to TT members... now inquiring minds want to know more...

:) :D -

I had a program wrote with out the CPS to see if it would work. I have a source that can make custom programs. The problem was that the Northstar ignition needs the CPS no matter what program is wrote for. The Northstar ignition is the route cause of not being able to cross the CPS. GM never made the Northstar motor with that CPS. Indmar/Delphi sourced that CPS without GM's help.

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 09:18 AM
I had a program wrote with out the CPS to see if it would work. I have a source that can make custom programs. The problem was that the Northstar ignition needs the CPS no matter what program is wrote for. The Northstar ignition is the route cause of not being able to cross the CPS. GM never made the Northstar motor with that CPS. Indmar/Delphi sourced that CPS without GM's help.

Yikes.... that good info - An Optispark work around that is haunting us ;) :D ---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCjaz6zHfc

I can see why they did not use it.

Is the CPS you found still being manufactured or should LT 1 owners start calling you to stock these parts - just in case? :)

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 11:01 AM
Yikes.... that good info - An Optispark work around that is haunting us ;) :D ---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCjaz6zHfc

I can see why they did not use it.

Is the CPS you found still being manufactured or should LT 1 owners start calling you to stock these parts - just in case? :)

As far as I know from my source they are still being made. He can not tell me for how long or if they will ever stop. I don't have a good answer for that question.

Waterskibum
03-06-2014, 11:11 AM
As far as I know from my source they are still being made. He can not tell me for how long or if they will ever stop. I don't have a good answer for that question.

Scary thought considering how many of us have LT-1's with little to no intention of ever getting rid of them. Thank you for finding a solution Bruce, and thanks again to Mike for trying every avenue. I'll be calling you soon.

mgs96ps
03-06-2014, 11:20 AM
Scary thought considering how many of us have LT-1's with little to no intention of ever getting rid of them. Thank you for finding a solution Bruce, and thanks again to Mike for trying every avenue. I'll be calling you soon.

Sounds like this effects LTR engines as well.

Waterskibum
03-06-2014, 11:24 AM
Sounds like this effects LTR engines as well.

Yes sorry, it does as they have the Northstar ignition.

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 11:37 AM
As far as I know from my source they are still being made. He can not tell me for how long or if they will ever stop. I don't have a good answer for that question.

Ahh then your source found an equivalent... :) - Since remy stopped making them... :)

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 01:24 PM
We need these guys to get us the specs ;)

the optispark looks a bit flimsy - at least Indmar avoided this thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCjaz6zHfc

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 01:34 PM
Sounds like this effects LTR engines as well.

Yes LTR's are also affected.

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 01:36 PM
We need these guys to get us the specs ;)

the optispark looks a bit flimsy - at least Indmar avoided this thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCjaz6zHfc

Indmar has been in contact with me to find the source of where i am getting them. They can not even find a source for them.

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 02:06 PM
Indmar has been in contact with me to find the source of where i am getting them. They can not even find a source for them.

When I come thru Fenton in April, I will have to take you to a bar and by you some drinks or maybe a lot ;) - we will break you down and you will spill the beans :D :D :D :D

mgs96ps
03-06-2014, 02:23 PM
Indmar has been in contact with me to find the source of where i am getting them. They can not even find a source for them.

Can you at least tell us why the inquiry from Indmar? Are they wanting to buy out your source or do they want to employ them to make sensors. Or maybe they want MC's to die a painful death? Entertain us.

Also when are we going to see pictures of that fully restored 84 MC S and S.


Bruce don't read the next line....
.
.
.
.
.
.
Mikeg...trying to soften him up for your visit.

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Can you at least tell us why the inquiry from Indmar? Are they wanting to buy out your source or do they want to employ them to make sensors. Or maybe they want MC's to die a painful death? Entertain us.

Also when are we going to see pictures of that fully restored 84 MC S and S.


Bruce don't read the next line....
.
.
.
.
.
.
Mikeg...trying to soften him up for your visit.

I believe Bruce used his knowledge and found a replacement... and we all focus our OCD on him he will be unable to withhold his knowledge and yeild the info to us.. ;) - I believe he has done a better job than Indmar... or devoted a lot more time to it. :)


.......................... I'll be bringing Wild Turkey 101 ;) :D :D :D

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Can you at least tell us why the inquiry from Indmar? Are they wanting to buy out your source or do they want to employ them to make sensors. Or maybe they want MC's to die a painful death? Entertain us.

Also when are we going to see pictures of that fully restored 84 MC S and S.


Bruce don't read the next line....
.
.
.
.
.
.
Mikeg...trying to soften him up for your visit.

They contacted me to ask if I really had found them. Someone from TT called Indmar to ask them why they couldn't get them if a dealer was able to get them. I don't think Indmar has any intention of trying to find them. I will post pictures of my 84 this spring once i get the upholstery and stereo back in it. Its in storage and the upholstery just came back from being redone. The only thing I haven't done is the carpet. I don't plan to until my two year old gets a little older!!

Mikeg doesn't have to soften me up!!

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 02:35 PM
When I come thru Fenton in April, I will have to take you to a bar and by you some drinks or maybe a lot ;) - we will break you down and you will spill the beans :D :D :D :D

You can take me to the bar but i am taking this one to the grave. I have way TOO much time wrapped up in finding them!!

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 02:36 PM
They contacted me to ask if I really had found them. Someone from TT called Indmar to ask them why they couldn't get them if a dealer was able to get them. I don't think Indmar has any intention of trying to find them. I will post pictures of my 84 this spring once i get the upholstery and stereo back in it. Its in storage and the upholstery just came back from being redone. The only thing I haven't done is the carpet. I don't plan to until my two year old gets a little older!!

Mikeg doesn't have to soften me up!!

I am the one who called them... many many times.. :) and will continue to do so... I never give up...

This will be good to Polish boys and a bottle of Wild Turkey - Hey Bruce we can get Dirk to join us.. :)

I am so glad you found this part Bruce -

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 02:49 PM
I am the one who called them... many many times.. :) and will continue to do so... I never give up...

This will be good to Polish boys and a bottle of Wild Turkey - Hey Bruce we can get Dirk to join us.. :)

I am so glad you found this part Bruce -

You can leave a few bottles of Captain on your porch and I stop and pick them up next week. Then we can talk about the source!! LOL!! I am going your way next Thursday, going to Lake Geneva for my last snocross race of the year. Captain makes me talk easier!!

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 02:54 PM
You can leave a few bottles of Captain on your porch and I stop and pick them up next week. Then we can talk about the source!! LOL!! I am going your way next Thursday, going to Lake Geneva for my last snocross race of the year. Captain makes me talk easier!!

oooo I have friends up there... enjoy the Snocross.. Captain... :D :D

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 02:58 PM
Okay - I am sticking a fork in this and calling it done!!!

Mike,

The team in service parts continue to work on these sensor’s and to date we have fulfilled all orders. We have a source for future orders.



Chuck Rowe

Indmar Products
5400 Old Millington Rd.
Millington, TN 38053

Office: (901) 353-9930
Crowe@indmar.com

Waterskibum
03-06-2014, 03:02 PM
Okay - I am sticking a fork in this and calling it done!!!

Mike,

The team in service parts continue to work on these sensor’s and to date we have fulfilled all orders. We have a source for future orders.



Chuck Rowe

Indmar Products
5400 Old Millington Rd.
Millington, TN 38053

Office: (901) 353-9930
Crowe@indmar.com

So is Indmar going to buy them from Bruce and resell them??

mikeg205
03-06-2014, 03:05 PM
So is Indmar going to buy them from Bruce and resell them??

This thread is officially closed.. ;) - will close it shortly. we have a solution - if we find another I will re-open the thread. Most crank position sensors are about $60 bucks - Bruce gives a great discount to TT members.

So it's a bit more money not a lot - like a tank of gas more money.

Mike

Bruce-ActionWater
03-06-2014, 03:18 PM
This thread is officially closed.. ;) - will close it shortly. we have a solution - if we find another I will re-open the thread. Most crank position sensors are about $60 bucks - Bruce gives a great discount to TT members.

So it's a bit more money not a lot - like a tank of gas more money.

Mike

I hope they really have found a source and then we (dealers) can get them easier and cheaper!! Then we can sell them cheaper to the customer!! We shall see.

manowicki
08-27-2014, 07:09 PM
I just read all of this thread and am still a bit confused. So.....does Indmar now have the CPS's for the LT1 or do we contact Bruce @ Action Water?

Thanks!

Mike

mikeg205
08-27-2014, 07:44 PM
I just read all of this thread and am still a bit confused. So.....does Indmar now have the CPS's for the LT1 or do we contact Bruce @ Action Water?

Thanks!

Mike

contact Bruce at action water sports

captain planet
08-28-2014, 11:56 AM
I just read all of this thread and am still a bit confused. So.....does Indmar now have the CPS's for the LT1 or do we contact Bruce @ Action Water?

Thanks!

Mike

contact Bruce at action water sports

I have also discovered that Boat House Marine can get these as well.

S&S
08-28-2014, 12:00 PM
Steet and performance. its a hot rod shop but they can help you on whatever you need for LT1.
I apologize if this has already been said, didn't have time to read the whole thread

mikeg205
08-28-2014, 12:45 PM
Steet and performance. its a hot rod shop but they can help you on whatever you need for LT1.
I apologize if this has already been said, didn't have time to read the whole thread

the crank position sensors are not from an LT1 - they are from another engine... remy made them and there's no direct replacement from them -

CP- do the boat house marine ones have any markings on them to identify a cross reference?

captain planet
08-28-2014, 12:57 PM
the crank position sensors are not from an LT1 - they are from another engine... remy made them and there's no direct replacement from them -

CP- do the boat house marine ones have any markings on them to identify a cross reference?

I don't know. I was talking with Chris about a 1995 205 that has the LT-1 in it and he mentioned how expensive some parts were becoming for that engine. I brought up the CPS issue and their rarity and that's when he said they can get them. I don't have any details beyond that.

mikeg205
08-28-2014, 01:07 PM
I called Boathouse Marine... they are getting them from Action Water... One day we'll find where Bruce got these.. for now - I thank him for finding them...

Waterskibum
08-29-2014, 11:23 AM
I've been on borrowed time with mine all Summer. Keep expecting that she will not start; but keeps going. I'll be ordering a set from Bruce this Winter!

Bruce-ActionWater
08-29-2014, 05:43 PM
If you call and ask Indmar about them, they will give you my name and number. I have sold over 60 of them so far this year. I am currently out of them, going to place a new order shortly. Yes Boat House is buying them from me and lots of other dealers.