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View Full Version : Winterized - 3gal of RV - nothing out exhaust


bochnak
10-21-2013, 06:42 AM
I winterized this weekend, motor is a Indmar TBI 5.7.

Drained the both exhaust manifolds, both block plugs, removed and drained all hoses/impeller.

I ran the motor and sucked up 3gal of RV anti freeze and was hoping I would see pink come out exhaust flaps. I got nothing but a bit of clear water.

How many gallons do you guys go through in order to get the pink stuff spit out the back? There is no mention in anything I've read about water in mufflers being a problem.

mikeg205
10-21-2013, 07:51 AM
I run 5- 6 to get some out of exhaust... iirc 3 gallons fills the hoses, block and manifolds.

jkski
10-21-2013, 08:15 AM
If the engine was nice and hot when you drained everything, 4 gallons will fill everything and spill some out the exhaust.

Ski-me
10-21-2013, 09:36 AM
I used 6 gallons.....

bochnak
10-21-2013, 09:50 AM
Thanks guys.

The engine was cold at the time. So should I be concerned that I did not use enough? In all the reading I've done, addressing water in mufflers was never covered. After all, all you need to do is drain everything. I took an extra step to add RV.

After sucking up 3 gal of RV, I pulled a exhaust plug and was 100% pink. I cracked the block petcock and also was pink. I pulled the temp sender and RV came out. I pulled the sender to test resistance values.

Add more or leave it?

Ski-me
10-21-2013, 10:35 AM
I had the same result last year.....not warm enough engine to circulate everything.

I pulled my knock sensor and clear water came out. Be sure to pull that. Drain any heater hoses/shower hoses and blow out with compressed air.

I removed the lanyard kill switch and then cranked the engine a few times to blow out any water (don't know if this is the correct way or not, but I felt better :) ).

I also pulled my thermostat and just poured in a cup or two of regular anti-freeze coolant as a precaution. Be sure to start up in spring in your driveway so the coolant doesn't get into any lakes.

Pull out your impellar too. Leave hoses off to dry out.

Drive boat around with hoses off to get any excess water sloshed out. Drive up and down hills, left and right turns. Just gives you a little piece of mind.

I think you are pretty close though....

bochnak
10-21-2013, 11:03 AM
I had the same result last year.....not warm enough engine to circulate everything.

I pulled my knock sensor and clear water came out. Be sure to pull that. Drain any heater hoses/shower hoses and blow out with compressed air.

I removed the lanyard kill switch and then cranked the engine a few times to blow out any water (don't know if this is the correct way or not, but I felt better :) ).

I also pulled my thermostat and just poured in a cup or two of regular anti-freeze coolant as a precaution. Be sure to start up in spring in your driveway so the coolant doesn't get into any lakes.

Pull out your impellar too. Leave hoses off to dry out.

Drive boat around with hoses off to get any excess water sloshed out. Drive up and down hills, left and right turns. Just gives you a little piece of mind.

I think you are pretty close though....

I drained all water before sucking up RV. I pulled both petcock and knock sensor out along with draining all hoses including impeller. I probably could have left it as is.

I might uptake another 3 gal next time I go up to get it into the mufflers.

Barefooter92
10-21-2013, 11:59 AM
5 gal. But make sure the boat is level or leaning back. I winterized yesterday in a new location and it was sitting bow low and had trouble pushing water though the exhaust.

bochnak
10-21-2013, 12:21 PM
5 gal. But make sure the boat is level or leaning back. I winterized yesterday in a new location and it was sitting bow low and had trouble pushing water though the exhaust.

I'll just have to crank up the trailer jack.

willyt
10-21-2013, 01:14 PM
yeah, i follow the same method of dry blocking before sucking up any antifreeze. it does take more than 3 gallons before it starts spitting out the exhaust.

with this method, you should have nothing but undiluted antifreeze in the block.

Jerseydave
10-21-2013, 01:28 PM
Just did mine, ran the engine until 160 degrees then drained block and manifolds.

Added 5 gals of purple West Marine anti-freeze and it came out purple at the exhaust.

3 gals is not enough IMHO.

bochnak
10-21-2013, 02:25 PM
The big question is should I be concerned? I'm certain the engine is protected.

Should I care about water in mufflers?

blackhawk
10-21-2013, 02:36 PM
After I completely drained water from everything, including taking the hoses loose and emptying them, I drove around the block to shake out any leftover water. Then I just poured antifreeze in mine without running it. First, I filled up the discharge hose from the raw water impeller, so that the impeller would be full of AF. I then took the large hose loose from the thermostat housing and poured about 2-3/4 gallons into the hose. That is the point that it ran out of the thermostat housing, so you know that the block is filled. On my MCX the hoses that go to the exhaust manifolds are above the large hose on the thermostat housing, so I didn't get any AF in there. I tried to take off those hoses to put some AF in there, but they would not budge. I would have needed to cut them loose. But, I know that the exhaust manifolds are drained of water because it gushed out full stream when I drained them. It would be nice to have some AF in there for corrosion protection, but I hated to cut the hoses.

Bochnak - Take loose your large hose at the thermostat housing if AF runs out, you should be good. If not, pour some AF in the hose until it comes out the housing.

bochnak
10-21-2013, 03:08 PM
Bochnak - Take loose your large hose at the thermostat housing if AF runs out, you should be good. If not, pour some AF in the hose until it comes out the housing.

I pulled the temp sending unit out of manifold for testing and RV gushed out. I also pulled one exhaust plug since I was wondering where all 3 gallons went. RV came out as well.

So, right now I know the block is full and so is one side of exhaust.

The concern I have is that water is sitting in the mufflers. I don't think it will be an issue since it is 3-4" diameter and mostly empty at this point.

mikeg205
10-21-2013, 03:21 PM
I pulled the temp sending unit out of manifold for testing and RV gushed out. I also pulled one exhaust plug since I was wondering where all 3 gallons went. RV came out as well.

So, right now I know the block is full and so is one side of exhaust.

The concern I have is that water is sitting in the mufflers. I don't think it will be an issue since it is 3-4" diameter and mostly empty at this point.

Put the wheels back on the trailer and take it for a ride up a steep hill ;)

bochnak
10-21-2013, 03:30 PM
Put the wheels back on the trailer and take it for a ride up a steep hill ;)

Ha! It took 3 of us to push it into the garage up there! I'll jack it up as high as it will go and call it a day.

mikeg205
10-21-2013, 03:58 PM
or... you could get a couple o' more gallons and make a bucket like mine...

bsloop
10-21-2013, 04:36 PM
OP answer - it will usually take 4-5 gal to have it spiting out the exhaust.
You did fail to run it up to temp before adding the AF but it appears the solution got everywhere it needed to for a standard raw water cooled motor.

Put her to bed and dream of Spring......

bochnak
10-21-2013, 04:41 PM
OP answer - it will usually take 4-5 gal to have it spiting out the exhaust.
You did fail to run it up to temp before adding the AF but it appears the solution got everywhere it needed to for a standard raw water cooled motor.

Put her to bed and dream of Spring......

Thanks. I don't see how running it up to temp will help distribution of fluid. The cold RV fluid will eventually close the t-stat. Also, I had the t-stat housing off and there is a bypass hole which dumps in intake and exhaust manifolds. The RV fluids that gushed out when I pulled the temp sending unit kind of proves this theory.

I'll take your advice and dream of spring :D

willyt
10-21-2013, 04:53 PM
or... you could get a couple o' more gallons and make a bucket like mine...

mike... how did you make that bucket??

mikeg205
10-21-2013, 05:14 PM
mike... how did you make that bucket??

Cut a hole in the bottom side with a hole drill to fit a plastic PVC fitting that had a 1.25 O.D. - made the hole a bit smaller - added some heat and the shoved in the fitting. Applied some cheapo clear resin - doesn't stick well to that plastic bucket. then I bought some ribbed pool hose with an I.D. 1.25" and clamped it on.

under $20 all in.

Amazing how fast it drains when you give the throttle a little nudge forward. (neutral pin pulled of course)

I was a garden hose was ok kind of guy until - Tim Cant Repeat posted his video. the MC-OCD kicked in and I was compelled to make the bucket... then as a by product it was easy to run the RV Anti freeze into motor.

bochnak
10-21-2013, 10:01 PM
I was a garden hose was ok kind of guy until - Tim Cant Repeat posted his video. the MC-OCD kicked in and I was compelled to make the bucket... then as a by product it was easy to run the RV Anti freeze into motor.

Have a link to the vid? I found an old post but says vid has been removed.

mikeg205
10-21-2013, 10:07 PM
Have a link to the vid? I found an old post but says vid has been removed.

Vid has been removed awhile back... When I run mine - at idle the bucket can't keep up over time. As mentioned before - it's also very easy to add Rv Antifreeze when running in dry dock. Also lets me easily do a dry dock test before running to ski waters.

Ski-me
10-22-2013, 08:50 AM
I used the bucket method this time too. I started with a full bucket of water and let the garden hose continue to flow. At idle, the water level slowly began to get lower and lower. It did take a good 7 or 8 minutes before it got down to about 1/3 full....all at idle speed.

So, giving a little throttle will suck that down even quicker!

varun
10-27-2013, 11:48 PM
or... you could get a couple o' more gallons and make a bucket like mine...

Whoh this is a VERY COOL idea, I want to hookup a setup like this. I guess I'll find a way to rig on a garden hose connector to a bucket then I can suck up RV antifreeze easily into the engine.
QUESTION: What exactly is the Mastercraft 'ENGINE FLUSH KIT'. Is this the garden hose connector on the transom where you can hookup a hose to run the motor? If so, should I order my new boat with this option, so I can just connect a hose connected to a bucket of antifreeze, for an easy way to fill the motor/heater with antifreeze?

bsloop
10-28-2013, 08:58 AM
Perko flush pro makes it easy to run the motor anytime and winterize.
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/underwater_hardware/product/62/
I do find I have to seal the hull intake with tape to get it to suck AF from a bucket.

I call the "MCODumb" of using a bucket because of a fear the volume of water the pump can move Dumb. Any flow of water will lubricate the pump to prevent wear and garden hose can flow plenty of water to prevent overheating from my experience. I run it up to speed, tune etc, watch the temp go up then go down as the thermostat opens.

Bucket is fine for AF delivery but Dumb for general running if due to fear of lack of water.

mikeg205
10-28-2013, 09:23 AM
Perko flush pro makes it easy to run the motor anytime and winterize.
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/underwater_hardware/product/62/
I do find I have to seal the hull intake with tape to get it to suck AF from a bucket.

I call the "MCODumb" of using a bucket because of a fear the volume of water the pump can move Dumb. Any flow of water will lubricate the pump to prevent wear and garden hose can flow plenty of water to prevent overheating from my experience. I run it up to speed, tune etc, watch the temp go up then go down as the thermostat opens.

Bucket is fine for AF delivery but Dumb for general running if due to fear of lack of water.

Never sent a flame at someone who disagreed. 5 gallon bucked can't keep up at idle. Hey's it's your engine... Do what you want.. not MCOCD post never implied not doing it was dumb.

mike

bsloop
10-28-2013, 12:51 PM
Never sent a flame at someone who disagreed. 5 gallon bucked can't keep up at idle. Hey's it's your engine... Do what you want.. not MCOCD post never implied not doing it was dumb.

mike

The comment was not directed at any one person, simply the idea that an engine out of the water needs the full flow of raw water provided by the pump.
If an individual has so much pride in an unfounded idea they cant read my original statement for what it was then that may qualify them as dumb.

I will accept the FACT that the raw water pump CAN flow an extremely high volume of water. It is designed so high for worst case scenario and still have capacity to spare. Heavy load, hot tropical water, worn parts, etc.
I also contend any standard marine engine does not need this full volume for cooling.
If it did, the much lower volume of a hose would result in scalding hot water or pure steam from the exhaust. Neither of which happens. After heavy running on a hose, water from the exhaust will still be only warm to the touch at approx. 110-120 degrees. Risers are hot but no hotter than if one touches them after running on the water. The brass pump housing is cool to the touch so the is no rubber friction there.

Even WOT on the trailer, the engine is not under load thus not burning max fuel or producing the heat. Also, tap water is usually 50-75 degrees and thus has greater heat absorption than worst case tropics.

A person can change their oil every 20 hours, new impeller once a month or dump buckets of water. That is fine, none will damage the engine but all are a waste of time, money and resources for what a standard production engine requires for a long, happy life. A person can laugh it off as MCOD, I just laugh.

Be very clear, I think the idea of a bucket hooked to the raw water has advantages over a "fake a lake" or Flush but all have their tradeoffs.
The idea that an engine needs as much water flow as the raw water pump can provide is flawed and dumb in my opinion from experience and qualitatively.

varun
10-28-2013, 01:00 PM
Clearly I'm not an expert at this, hence I do not understand the lingo. What is MCODumb and DUMB in reference to the past two comments/posts?
I understand that you do not want to run the motor dry w/o water as it will overheat, I get that. I do not want to fill water in the motor to begin with, I am looking at winterizing hence I will first drain as much water as I can, then fill 5-6 gal of RV AF via this bucket method.
Do I need to splice this Perko Flush Pro valve permanently into the water lines/plumbing of my boat, or connect it only when im doing the flush? Anyone know how thick those hoses are on a late model x25? So if I'm not mistaken, this Perko Flush Pro is the same gizmo that M/c installs in their boats as the 'engine flush kit'?

thatsmrmastercraft
10-28-2013, 01:07 PM
Whoh this is a VERY COOL idea, I want to hookup a setup like this. I guess I'll find a way to rig on a garden hose connector to a bucket then I can suck up RV antifreeze easily into the engine.
QUESTION: What exactly is the Mastercraft 'ENGINE FLUSH KIT'. Is this the garden hose connector on the transom where you can hookup a hose to run the motor? If so, should I order my new boat with this option, so I can just connect a hose connected to a bucket of antifreeze, for an easy way to fill the motor/heater with antifreeze?

You don't need to tap into the bottom of the bucket. I have a short section of hose with a valve on top where I hook up the garden hose attached to the side of the tub I use with two screws at the top. I also have intake hose that is attached to the supply hose with zip ties. When not in use for running in the driveway, the tub holds all the odd assorted boat supplid I like to keep handy.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-28-2013, 01:11 PM
Clearly I'm not an expert at this, hence I do not understand the lingo. What is MCODumb and DUMB in reference to the past two comments/posts?
I understand that you do not want to run the motor dry w/o water as it will overheat, I get that. I do not want to fill water in the motor to begin with, I am looking at winterizing hence I will first drain as much water as I can, then fill 5-6 gal of RV AF via this bucket method.
Do I need to splice this Perko Flush Pro valve permanently into the water lines/plumbing of my boat, or connect it only when im doing the flush? Anyone know how thick those hoses are on a late model x25? So if I'm not mistaken, this Perko Flush Pro is the same gizmo that M/c installs in their boats as the 'engine flush kit'?

MCOCD is a term coined for those of us here who may go over the top in the care and maintenance of our boats. The Dumb part comes from a "gentleman" on here who is taking personal shots at a well respected member here who evidently feels insulted somehow. Please disregard his offensive behavior.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-28-2013, 01:16 PM
Clearly I'm not an expert at this, hence I do not understand the lingo. What is MCODumb and DUMB in reference to the past two comments/posts?
I understand that you do not want to run the motor dry w/o water as it will overheat, I get that. I do not want to fill water in the motor to begin with, I am looking at winterizing hence I will first drain as much water as I can, then fill 5-6 gal of RV AF via this bucket method.
Do I need to splice this Perko Flush Pro valve permanently into the water lines/plumbing of my boat, or connect it only when im doing the flush? Anyone know how thick those hoses are on a late model x25? So if I'm not mistaken, this Perko Flush Pro is the same gizmo that M/c installs in their boats as the 'engine flush kit'?

As far as drawing rv antifreeze into your engine, you only need to remove the intake side hose from your transmission cooler. Then get your own hose to connect from the trans cooler to the bucket of your choosing. Once completed you can remove your intake hose and reconnect the original supply hose.

You can also go with a Perko system but that is a little more involved.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-28-2013, 01:18 PM
The comment was not directed at any one person, simply the idea that an engine out of the water needs the full flow of raw water provided by the pump.
If an individual has so much pride in an unfounded idea they cant read my original statement for what it was then that may qualify them as dumb.

I will accept the FACT that the raw water pump CAN flow an extremely high volume of water. It is designed so high for worst case scenario and still have capacity to spare. Heavy load, hot tropical water, worn parts, etc.
I also contend any standard marine engine does not need this full volume for cooling.
If it did, the much lower volume of a hose would result in scalding hot water or pure steam from the exhaust. Neither of which happens. After heavy running on a hose, water from the exhaust will still be only warm to the touch at approx. 110-120 degrees. Risers are hot but no hotter than if one touches them after running on the water. The brass pump housing is cool to the touch so the is no rubber friction there.

Even WOT on the trailer, the engine is not under load thus not burning max fuel or producing the heat. Also, tap water is usually 50-75 degrees and thus has greater heat absorption than worst case tropics.

A person can change their oil every 20 hours, new impeller once a month or dump buckets of water. That is fine, none will damage the engine but all are a waste of time, money and resources for what a standard production engine requires for a long, happy life. A person can laugh it off as MCOD, I just laugh.

Be very clear, I think the idea of a bucket hooked to the raw water has advantages over a "fake a lake" or Flush but all have their tradeoffs.
The idea that an engine needs as much water flow as the raw water pump can provide is flawed and dumb in my opinion from experience and qualitatively.

You aren't really serious that you run your engine at WOT on the trailer connected to a hose, are you?:confused:

east tx skier
10-29-2013, 02:48 PM
Perko flush pro makes it easy to run the motor anytime and winterize.
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/underwater_hardware/product/62/
I do find I have to seal the hull intake with tape to get it to suck AF from a bucket.

I call the "MCODumb" of using a bucket because of a fear the volume of water the pump can move Dumb. Any flow of water will lubricate the pump to prevent wear and garden hose can flow plenty of water to prevent overheating from my experience. I run it up to speed, tune etc, watch the temp go up then go down as the thermostat opens.

Bucket is fine for AF delivery but Dumb for general running if due to fear of lack of water.

And I read that other post of yours on the subject, too. A few thoughts ...

I had water pressure issues at my house for years. I realized the extent of it after sticking my garden hose in the raw water supply hose, turning it on, running the boat, and not getting any water flow. Yes, the hose works fine most of the time, but it's not a universal fix. So I stick with the $8 bucket solution that works well for me. Yes, I get peace of mind from watching the engine draw the water. Oddly enough, I just pour antifreeze into the tstat.

To your other point, as far as winterization goes, you are correct. You don't need a lakes worth of water to keep the engine cool. All you are doing is warming up the engine to warm up the oil and transmission fluid and move stabilized fuel into all the necessary places. Most of us are keeping it under 1,200 rpm during this process. If it weren't for the lubricating properties of water required by the impeller, I'm not sure you need any water at all to do this. It will happen more quickly without any water. The point is, if you keep things lubricated and shut the boat off when you get up to temp, it doesn't really matter how much water you used to get there or how you got it there.

The practical concern is keeping the impeller from getting burned up during this process. Some water will do this. None will result in your having to fish a bunch of impeller bits from every nook and cranny of the cooling system and beyond. In my case, I was paying close attention and didn't burn up the impeller. The real benefit of the bucket method over a non-opaque hose is that you know immediately that everything is working in that regard.

As mentioned above, based on having it not work, I prefer this bit of reassurance. If you are confident that the water pressure, etc. at your house will perform the exact same way as it always has (I know I once felt this way), then good on you. Whistle a happy tune from a great feeling of superiority over us poor dullards that heave those massive empty five gallon buckets into our boats, spend an extra minute of our lives attaching a hose to the transmission cooler, dropping that hose into the bucket and feeding that bucket with a hose not unlike the one you cram into a raw water hose and clamp down.


And, for what it's worth, I don't have MC OCD. I dont' even have a MC.

mikeg205
10-29-2013, 03:54 PM
And I read that other post of yours on the subject, too. A few thoughts ...

I had water pressure issues at my house for years. I realized the extent of it after sticking my garden hose in the raw water supply hose, turning it on, running the boat, and not getting any water flow. Yes, the hose works fine most of the time, but it's not a universal fix. So I stick with the $8 bucket solution that works well for me. Yes, I get peace of mind from watching the engine draw the water. Oddly enough, I just pour antifreeze into the tstat.

To your other point, as far as winterization goes, you are correct. You don't need a lakes worth of water to keep the engine cool. All you are doing is warming up the engine to warm up the oil and transmission fluid and move stabilized fuel into all the necessary places. Most of us are keeping it under 1,200 rpm during this process. If it weren't for the lubricating properties of water required by the impeller, I'm not sure you need any water at all to do this. It will happen more quickly without any water. The point is, if you keep things lubricated and shut the boat off when you get up to temp, it doesn't really matter how much water you used to get there or how you got it there.

The practical concern is keeping the impeller from getting burned up during this process. Some water will do this. None will result in your having to fish a bunch of impeller bits from every nook and cranny of the cooling system and beyond. In my case, I was paying close attention and didn't burn up the impeller. The real benefit of the bucket method over a non-opaque hose is that you know immediately that everything is working in that regard.

As mentioned above, based on having it not work, I prefer this bit of reassurance. If you are confident that the water pressure, etc. at your house will perform the exact same way as it always has (I know I once felt this way), then good on you. Whistle a happy tune from a great feeling of superiority over us poor dullards that heave those massive empty five gallon buckets into our boats, spend an extra minute of our lives attaching a hose to the transmission cooler, dropping that hose into the bucket and feeding that bucket with a hose not unlike the one you cram into a raw water hose and clamp down.


And, for what it's worth, I don't have MC OCD. I dont' even have a MC.

First sign of mental disorder - denial ;) :D

scott023
10-29-2013, 04:13 PM
And I read that other post of yours on the subject, too. A few thoughts ...

I had water pressure issues at my house for years. I realized the extent of it after sticking my garden hose in the raw water supply hose, turning it on, running the boat, and not getting any water flow. Yes, the hose works fine most of the time, but it's not a universal fix. So I stick with the $8 bucket solution that works well for me. Yes, I get peace of mind from watching the engine draw the water. Oddly enough, I just pour antifreeze into the tstat.

To your other point, as far as winterization goes, you are correct. You don't need a lakes worth of water to keep the engine cool. All you are doing is warming up the engine to warm up the oil and transmission fluid and move stabilized fuel into all the necessary places. Most of us are keeping it under 1,200 rpm during this process. If it weren't for the lubricating properties of water required by the impeller, I'm not sure you need any water at all to do this. It will happen more quickly without any water. The point is, if you keep things lubricated and shut the boat off when you get up to temp, it doesn't really matter how much water you used to get there or how you got it there.

The practical concern is keeping the impeller from getting burned up during this process. Some water will do this. None will result in your having to fish a bunch of impeller bits from every nook and cranny of the cooling system and beyond. In my case, I was paying close attention and didn't burn up the impeller. The real benefit of the bucket method over a non-opaque hose is that you know immediately that everything is working in that regard.

As mentioned above, based on having it not work, I prefer this bit of reassurance. If you are confident that the water pressure, etc. at your house will perform the exact same way as it always has (I know I once felt this way), then good on you. Whistle a happy tune from a great feeling of superiority over us poor dullards that heave those massive empty five gallon buckets into our boats, spend an extra minute of our lives attaching a hose to the transmission cooler, dropping that hose into the bucket and feeding that bucket with a hose not unlike the one you cram into a raw water hose and clamp down.


And, for what it's worth, I don't have MC OCD. I dont' even have a MC.

Doug, you may have a plain old case of OCD... just sayin. :D

thatsmrmastercraft
10-29-2013, 04:16 PM
And I read that other post of yours on the subject, too. A few thoughts ...

I had water pressure issues at my house for years. I realized the extent of it after sticking my garden hose in the raw water supply hose, turning it on, running the boat, and not getting any water flow. Yes, the hose works fine most of the time, but it's not a universal fix. So I stick with the $8 bucket solution that works well for me. Yes, I get peace of mind from watching the engine draw the water. Oddly enough, I just pour antifreeze into the tstat.

To your other point, as far as winterization goes, you are correct. You don't need a lakes worth of water to keep the engine cool. All you are doing is warming up the engine to warm up the oil and transmission fluid and move stabilized fuel into all the necessary places. Most of us are keeping it under 1,200 rpm during this process. If it weren't for the lubricating properties of water required by the impeller, I'm not sure you need any water at all to do this. It will happen more quickly without any water. The point is, if you keep things lubricated and shut the boat off when you get up to temp, it doesn't really matter how much water you used to get there or how you got it there.

The practical concern is keeping the impeller from getting burned up during this process. Some water will do this. None will result in your having to fish a bunch of impeller bits from every nook and cranny of the cooling system and beyond. In my case, I was paying close attention and didn't burn up the impeller. The real benefit of the bucket method over a non-opaque hose is that you know immediately that everything is working in that regard.

As mentioned above, based on having it not work, I prefer this bit of reassurance. If you are confident that the water pressure, etc. at your house will perform the exact same way as it always has (I know I once felt this way), then good on you. Whistle a happy tune from a great feeling of superiority over us poor dullards that heave those massive empty five gallon buckets into our boats, spend an extra minute of our lives attaching a hose to the transmission cooler, dropping that hose into the bucket and feeding that bucket with a hose not unlike the one you cram into a raw water hose and clamp down.


And, for what it's worth, I don't have MC OCD. I dont' even have a MC.

So what you are saying here is if I remove my impeller for winter lay-up, I may as well take it out first, then continue with my oil change and antifreeze and fogging process...............but I could do it all in just a few minutes???

-> Remove impeller
-> Start & run engine for 90 seconds to warm up
-> Change oil
-> Start & run, when oil psi comes up, fog until it dies
-> Pour RV antifreeze in through thermostat housing

Brilliant :)

east tx skier
10-29-2013, 11:13 PM
No. I'm not suggesting that anyone try that except one person. :)

east tx skier
10-29-2013, 11:15 PM
Doug, you may have a plain old case of OCD... just sayin. :D

Tell me something I don't know. ;)

thatsmrmastercraft
10-29-2013, 11:15 PM
No. I'm not suggesting that anyone try that except one person. :)

http://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gifhttp://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gifhttp://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gif

mikeg205
10-30-2013, 07:08 AM
Tell me something I don't know. ;)

That's awesome... I knew it... :)

bsloop
10-30-2013, 01:24 PM
Clearly I'm not an expert at this, hence I do not understand the lingo. What is MCODumb and DUMB in reference to the past two comments/posts?
I understand that you do not want to run the motor dry w/o water as it will overheat, I get that. I do not want to fill water in the motor to begin with, I am looking at winterizing hence I will first drain as much water as I can, then fill 5-6 gal of RV AF via this bucket method.
Do I need to splice this Perko Flush Pro valve permanently into the water lines/plumbing of my boat, or connect it only when im doing the flush? Anyone know how thick those hoses are on a late model x25? So if I'm not mistaken, this Perko Flush Pro is the same gizmo that M/c installs in their boats as the 'engine flush kit'?

Perko is the flush kit many OEM install. The primary use is for those in salt/brackish water to easily flush the engine after each use to reduce corrosive damage of salt exposure.
A side benefit is it makes running the engine out of water very easy for any maintenance. It does cost $100 and is permanently installed which requires splicing into the raw water intake between the scupper and oil cooler. Takes an hour if you know what you are doing and have good tools, 2hrs for your first time and have to hack through the wire reinforced hose.
Like many other preventative maintenance accessory items, there is a trade off in $$, install time and long term use.

Usually with the Flush valve, a short section of garden hose is used to suck AF out of a bucket. The difference is there is no fabrication of a bucket apparatus, unhooking of other engine hoses or spilling if dumping direct from a bottle.
Perko's original design had a tendency to crack at the hose neck (happened to me), this was fixed in a redesign several years ago if you run across web banter.

Raw water intake is usually 1 1/4" ID.

The Dumb part comes from a "gentleman" on here who is taking personal shots at a well respected member here who evidently feels insulted somehow. Please disregard his offensive behavior.

Once again, there was no personal shot, if he took it personal, I am sorry, he can reread my statements.
All three of you mega posters provide very insightful advice. It is not however above question nor out of the realm of public discussion to have a differing opinion.
It appears my opinions would be questioned not by facts but by small snips and one off examples, much like radical political factions tend to do.

Case in point -
You aren't really serious that you run your engine at WOT on the trailer connected to a hose, are you?:confused:
Sarcasm does not transfer well in print, being a mod I feel you should know this. Since my answer was sincere as was the original question, I assume this question / insinuation was as well. In which case it hurts my respect for you since you should know better than most that a non regulated, carb engine can free rev to damaging RPM at WOT.
My statement-
Even WOT on the trailer, the engine is not under load thus not burning max fuel or producing the heat. .
My statement in context is still true, even at WOT there is not sufficient heat generated for damage, RPMs may cause damage due to moving mass long before heat.
Most might infer WOT to be in the 4,400-4,600rpm range since that is what a BB is rated for under operating load.
I would not be afraid to run it up to that rpm range and hold long enough do checks such as belt play, timing, carb or throttle cable adjustment.

And I read that other post of yours on the subject, too. A few thoughts ...

I had water pressure issues at my house for years. I realized the extent of it after sticking my garden hose in the raw water supply hose, turning it on, running the boat, and not getting any water flow. Yes, the hose works fine most of the time, but it's not a universal fix. So I stick with the $8 bucket solution that works well for me. Yes, I get peace of mind from watching the engine draw the water. Oddly enough, I just pour antifreeze into the tstat.

To your other point, as far as winterization goes, you are correct. You don't need a lakes worth of water to keep the engine cool. All you are doing is warming up the engine to warm up the oil and transmission fluid and move stabilized fuel into all the necessary places. Most of us are keeping it under 1,200 rpm during this process. If it weren't for the lubricating properties of water required by the impeller, I'm not sure you need any water at all to do this. It will happen more quickly without any water. The point is, if you keep things lubricated and shut the boat off when you get up to temp, it doesn't really matter how much water you used to get there or how you got it there.

The practical concern is keeping the impeller from getting burned up during this process. Some water will do this. None will result in your having to fish a bunch of impeller bits from every nook and cranny of the cooling system and beyond. In my case, I was paying close attention and didn't burn up the impeller. The real benefit of the bucket method over a non-opaque hose is that you know immediately that everything is working in that regard.

As mentioned above, based on having it not work, I prefer this bit of reassurance. If you are confident that the water pressure, etc. at your house will perform the exact same way as it always has (I know I once felt this way), then good on you. Whistle a happy tune from a great feeling of superiority over us poor dullards that heave those massive empty five gallon buckets into our boats, spend an extra minute of our lives attaching a hose to the transmission cooler, dropping that hose into the bucket and feeding that bucket with a hose not unlike the one you cram into a raw water hose and clamp down.


And, for what it's worth, I don't have MC OCD. I dont' even have a MC.

ET, I appreciate your one off example of where lack of water flow or a kinked hose might pose a problem. Most would have verified this prior to hooking up and visually inspect water is indeed coming out exhaust or not leaking significantly from a fake a lake then keep ears sensitive enough to listen for the burbling exhaust splash while working.

Again, each method has plus and minus. A bucket plumbed to supply water serves the same end purpose as any other. Water in will equal water out, sufficient cooling will be maintained from the flow of most garden hoses.

My only contention is against the fallacy that a full water supply is necessary to run an engine.

east tx skier
10-30-2013, 03:36 PM
ET, I appreciate your one off example of where lack of water flow or a kinked hose might pose a problem. Most would have verified this prior to hooking up and visually inspect water is indeed coming out exhaust or not leaking significantly from a fake a lake then keep ears sensitive enough to listen for the burbling exhaust splash while working.

Again, each method has plus and minus. A bucket plumbed to supply water serves the same end purpose as any other. Water in will equal water out, sufficient cooling will be maintained from the flow of most garden hoses.

My only contention is against the fallacy that a full water supply is necessary to run an engine.

Full water supply, no. However, in my example, my supply of water was definitely more than a dribble and no kinked hose. For whatever reason though, when clamped into the raw water hose, even with some, albeit lackluster, pressure, the water was not making it to the system.

This is a sincere question. At some point, even though a modicum of water pressure, and the suction from the water pump all seem to be pushing/pulling water the same direction, is there something that would cause there to exist a vacuum in the works (not a kinked hose) that would simply cause there to be no flow at lower pressures?

This has always baffled me. That same day, I unhooked the hose from the raw water hose and dropped it in a bucket and filled the bucket enough to run the boat without issue.

The real beauty of the bucket method and why I recommend it is as follows:
(1) it's cheap (under $6 in parts I didn't have on hand---mine is not a hard plumbed affair),
(2) it's easy, and
(3) it's pretty much idiot proof (you can see it working and keep your eye on it).

The fact that with this method you have the reassurance that the pump and impeller are working (pulling water from the bucket unassisted) and, therefore, have an indicator of future on-water performance of these components a bonus, albeit one unrelated to the winterization process (which, of course is your point).

Of course, the hose cram method is cheap and easy, too. I would call it slightly less idiot proof, however, based on my own, well, instance of idiocy.

bsloop
10-31-2013, 03:59 PM
I have never used the method you seem to describe - pulling the raw water hose from the scupper and simply letting a hose run into it, "clamping" to hold the hose in place?

Seems like a one off scenario a person would have to be there for to have seen the exact setup at that moment.
In the craziness of all the steps buzzing around one's head, I might first suspect a link in the hose, clamp restriction or somehow the raw water hose was kinked not allowing flow to motor.
If the motor was not taking up water, it should have been spilling back into the bilge. If there was no water coming out of the hose, there had to be a restriction.

IF there was a low flow, you simply might not have let the motor run long enough to fill with water and expel? Much like the OP that only used 3 gal and didn't have anything come out?

I could hypothesize an odd scenario like using the perko flush (or another inline threaded tap source) with scupper sealed so no air could be drawn in, the pumps might be able to create enough vacuum to collapse a small diameter hose with a weakened wall. That is really stretching though.

Sorry, I really think it was a case of "ya had to be there"

CantRepeat
11-01-2013, 08:58 AM
A 5 gallon water bucket is emptied in less then 30 seconds at idle and at 1500 rpm the bucket is emptied in just about 10 seconds.