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View Full Version : Engine Oil change at end of season - 6 hours?


prostar205
10-07-2013, 04:55 PM
What are people's thoughts on whether to change the engine oil if you've only put 6 hours on the boat all season? I routinely change the oil at the end of each season (October-ish). However, this year I only put 6 hours on the boat total (that's a completely different story)and the oil was changed last Oct. 2012.

The only reason I'm asking is becuase it's kind of PITA to change the oil on my boat lift which is where the boat stay all year.

Thanks for the input.

captain planet
10-07-2013, 05:08 PM
Save your money. I asked my local dealer the same question last season when I clocked less than 20 hours for the season and he said he wouldn't if it were his boat. I'm sure there will be conflicting opinions coming, but I went with my dealer recommendation.

mikeg205
10-07-2013, 05:11 PM
Dino or synth... if synth I believe you could leave it. Dino oxidizes faster while the synth is better IMHO. my MCOCD would make me change it either way - oil is cheap - even if it's VR-1 20w-50 Synth...

thatsmrmastercraft
10-07-2013, 05:12 PM
My thought to this is motor oil is usually supposed to be changed by mileage and/or every three months. I guess I would be on the fence with this one too.

bigmac
10-07-2013, 07:42 PM
Probably doesn't matter, but I'd change it just so oxidation products and moisture from condensation isn't sitting around in your oil pan. Synthetic vs dino oil is mostly BS. Just use what the engine mfgr recommends. No advantage whatsoever to synthetic in this application.

Why is changing the oil on the lift a PITA? I see it as the easiest place to do it. Take the boat for a spin to warm it up, put it in the lift, put your suction pump/reservoir on the oil drain hose, pull the filter inside a plastic bag, refill with oil. Takes me about 15 mintues.

501s
10-07-2013, 08:53 PM
CP, you have over 5000 posts and 20 hours in a season? Numbers seem off lol.

Footin
10-07-2013, 09:00 PM
I wouldnt change it with only 6 hours

Bouyhead
10-07-2013, 09:05 PM
CP, you have over 5000 posts and 20 hours in a season? Numbers seem off lol.

Busy with the Ron Paul thread?:D:D:D

Jerseydave
10-07-2013, 09:11 PM
12 months with the same oil, even with just 6 hours I'd change it.

I mostly say that because you have the L-18.....all the more reason to change your oil.

Bouyhead
10-07-2013, 09:23 PM
Plan on keeping the boat forever or a very long time? Change it. Gonna sell anytime soon? Don't bother, that's what short timers do;)

swatguy
10-07-2013, 09:25 PM
I would go with the change it montra as well. It doesn't just come down to hours, it also comes down to time sitting in the engine as well. I am assuming you changed it before you winterized last year. That means it sat the entire winter, then the entire summer. Thats almost 11mos most likely if not 12 on the same oil. Its a no brainer to me. It's due.

onewheat
10-07-2013, 09:39 PM
Oil is cheap - I would change it too based on time sitting in the engine and the fact it has been used (even if only 6 hours).

east tx skier
10-08-2013, 10:02 AM
This will probably come as a surprise to no one, but I'd change it. I probably put less than 20 hrs on my boat this season and will be changing it before I put her to bed for winter.

ski_king
10-08-2013, 10:21 AM
I put less than 10 hours on mine this year and didn't change it, but will in the spring.
I was up against a deadline to get my boat into winter storage and didn't realize until it was too late that I didn't have the oil and filter. So I just did the anti freeze thing this year.


For the first 22 years I owned my boat, I changed the oil in the spring. Once I started hanging around here I realized it should be in the fall and changed my ways.

The boat is 31 years old now and the 20 plus years of sitting the winter with "old" oil in it didn't seem to cause any issues.

bsloop
10-08-2013, 11:31 AM
You will be fine, it did not run long enough to significantly build up contaminates.
The old 3k/3mo rule is out the window for anyone with their head not stuck in an oil can that needs a church key to open.

IF it were me and doing an oil change myself, I would probably do it for the $20 in oil.
Probably be lazy and not change filter as that other .5 qt will not be significant and the filter did not have anywhere close to enough hours on it.
If I was paying dealer price for it, I would probably skip or if I had wasted $$ on synthetic I would not.

mikeg205
10-08-2013, 11:34 AM
You will be fine, it did not run long enough to significantly build up contaminates.
The old 3k/3mo rule is out the window for anyone with their head not stuck in an oil can that needs a church key to open.

IF it were me and doing an oil change myself, I would probably do it for the $20 in oil.
Probably be lazy and not change filter as that other .5 qt will not be significant and the filter did not have anywhere close to enough hours on it.
If I was paying dealer price for it, I would probably skip or if I had wasted $$ on synthetic I would not.

You tryin' to spark an oil discussion? ;)

thatsmrmastercraft
10-08-2013, 11:35 AM
You tryin' to spark an oil discussion? ;)

Trying to spark something.

Traxx822
10-08-2013, 11:56 AM
Wow, everyone is all over the spectrum here. Oil is bs, synth is the same, head in an oil can, ocd do it, maybe if you're going to sell it.

Here I will lay it down for you.

Oil starts to break down after about 25 hours. (1500 miles or half life( 1500 miles/60mph=25 hours)) this is how you get your 50 hour interval recommendation. And needs replaced at 3000 miles or 50 hours.

Now, we know engine oil does age. The age effects conductivity (newer less conductive, older more conductive) This directly correlates with thermal protective efficiency. Dino oil after 3 months is not safe to run in your engine. After 1.5 months it is already starting to break down.

You may get more time out of SHC oil vs Hydrocracked oils but they all break down.

I would recommend people just replace their oil anytime they feel it is dirty.

My work vans are on a 2000 mile interval. My personal truck is on a 3000 mile interval and my boat is on a 30 hour interval. I use synthetic SHC oils only.

KxCorky
10-08-2013, 12:13 PM
So... I am assuming everyone wants to change their oil with winterizing because of the contaminates in the oil from use during summer? If the oil sits all winter does it still break down? I changed the oil mid summer because my Uncle couldn't remember if he had changed it at the end of the season last year, probably put 25 or so hours on it since the change.. And I wasn't planning on changing it until the start of next seasons..

tideengineer
10-08-2013, 12:16 PM
Interesting thread and I was thinking about asking the same question. I have always run syn Mobil1 in my LT-1...less than 20 hours run this year.

Traxx822
10-08-2013, 12:28 PM
Oil that sits for a long time will break down and loses it's thermal protective abilities.

I always tell people that your oil starts to break down at it's half life. after that it is all downhill and doesn't perform like new. So if you have ocd you will change it when the oil is not lubricating like it did when new. If you are not you will change it when it is at its minimum recommended abilities. people who think oil break down is a farce will not change it as they believe time has nothing to do with breakdown.

They are dead wrong

It is always best to change your oil as recommended.

It's pretty cheap too.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

mikeg205
10-08-2013, 12:29 PM
Yahoo and oil discussion.. ;)

bigmac
10-08-2013, 12:29 PM
Wow, everyone is all over the spectrum here. Oil is bs, synth is the same, head in an oil can, ocd do it, maybe if you're going to sell it.

Here I will lay it down for you.

Oil starts to break down after about 25 hours. (1500 miles or half life( 1500 miles/60mph=25 hours)) this is how you get your 50 hour interval recommendation. And needs replaced at 3000 miles or 50 hours.

Now, we know engine oil does age. The age effects conductivity (newer less conductive, older more conductive) This directly correlates with thermal protective efficiency. Dino oil after 3 months is not safe to run in your engine. After 1.5 months it is already starting to break down.

You may get more time out of SHC oil vs Hydrocracked oils but they all break down.

I would recommend people just replace their oil anytime they feel it is dirty.

My work vans are on a 2000 mile interval. My personal truck is on a 3000 mile interval and my boat is on a 30 hour interval. I use synthetic SHC oils only.

Oil doesn't break down. The VI improvers and other components of the additive package break down and combustion byproducts and contaminants accumulate beyond the capacity of the detergents to keep in suspension (equally true of Dino and synthetic). Group II base stocks (hydro cracked) don't need nearly so much VI improver, therefore the extended drain interval recommend by modern auto mfgrs.

I disagree with your erroneous (IMHO) assertions above.

KxCorky
10-08-2013, 12:33 PM
so then you should change it at the end of the season and the start of the season after it sits then? Then durring the season depending on how many hours you put on the boat? Just asking..

bigmac
10-08-2013, 12:35 PM
So... I am assuming everyone wants to change their oil with winterizing because of the contaminates in the oil from use during summer? If the oil sits all winter does it still break down? I changed the oil mid summer because my Uncle couldn't remember if he had changed it at the end of the season last year, probably put 25 or so hours on it since the change.. And I wasn't planning on changing it until the start of next seasons..

No, it doesn't break down just sitting. But combustion byproducts (acids) just sitting there and not circulating aren't great, and you do get some condensation as the oil cools after your last run. It's probably not a big deal in the short run, but it's one reason to consider changing the oil at the end of the season. Nothing to do with oil breakdown.

KxCorky
10-08-2013, 12:37 PM
OK I get it, so as long as you change the oil and dont start it again it should be fine to run at for the next season?

mikeg205
10-08-2013, 12:38 PM
oil - VR-1 Synth 5 quarts - 45.00 ish - napa gold 1069 filter 8. New engine.. ;) - just sayin' - not that I think not changing oil over a season with 6 hours would make that much difference.

it's a boat - you are required to spend copious amounts of cash to make her happy no? ;)

www.bobistheoilguy.com - more information than you will ever need.. .. PAO is the way to go... just prodding.. ;)

bigmac
10-08-2013, 12:43 PM
oil - VR-1 Synth 5 quarts - 45.00 ish - napa gold 1069 filter 8. New engine.. ;) - just sayin' - not that I think not changing oil over a season with 6 hours would make that much difference.

it's a boat - you are required to spend copious amounts of cash to make her happy no? ;)

www.bobistheoilguy.com - more information than you will ever need.. .. PAO is the way to go... just prodding.. ;)

Nothing wrong with synthetic oils. Great stuff, and useful, even crucial in some applications. Just not in ski boats following mfgr's oil change recommendations. Won't hurt a thing though. Cost difference is minimal, and like 2000 mile drain intervals, it gives some people peace of mind.

bigmac
10-08-2013, 12:48 PM
OK I get it, so as long as you change the oil and dont start it again it should be fine to run at for the next season?

It's really easy to overthink oil. Just follow the engine mfgr's recommendations. You'll be fine.

Traxx822
10-08-2013, 01:04 PM
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29407/oil-condition-monitoring I added this link to show what I am trying to convey.

I'm talking about conductivity and ESC effects Big Mac. This is the only thing that time does to oil. When I say "Breaks down" i'm referring to from its original abilities. You are right as the oil itself doesn't break down but the metal-organic additives and their ability to deter heat. I don't think that means I'm erroneous.

Traxx822
10-08-2013, 01:10 PM
One word out of line and your whole premise is wrong.

JohnE
10-08-2013, 01:47 PM
Only thing missing from this thread is JimN.:D

After all these years reading the oil threads, I'm still confused.:confused:

501s
10-08-2013, 02:31 PM
If you can afford the boat, gas, storage, insurance etc... Don't be cheap, change the oil. In the time it takes to read this thread and all the replies you could almost be done and have the peace of mind you went with the better option not the easier cheaper option.

mikeg205
10-08-2013, 03:00 PM
If you can afford the boat, gas, storage, insurance etc... Don't be cheap, change the oil. In the time it takes to read this thread and all the replies you could almost be done and have the peace of mind you went with the better option not the easier cheaper option.

Like...

thatsmrmastercraft
10-08-2013, 03:38 PM
With the thought in mind of changing the oil at winterization, and winter lay-up being considerable in Minnesota, my MCOCD tells me that after I fire her up in spring and burn out the fogging oil, I should change the oil again. If that is the case, the oil that sits in the engine over winter just gets run once while on the trailer with no load, I could get away with winterizing with some plain old 10w-40 Valvoline and putting the 20w-50 VR1 Valvoline in at spring feel good about the oil all year.

bigmac
10-08-2013, 04:26 PM
With the thought in mind of changing the oil at winterization, and winter lay-up being considerable in Minnesota, my MCOCD tells me that after I fire her up in spring and burn out the fogging oil, I should change the oil again. If that is the case, the oil that sits in the engine over winter just gets run once while on the trailer with no load, I could get away with winterizing with some plain old 10w-40 Valvoline and putting the 20w-50 VR1 Valvoline in at spring feel good about the oil all year.

It's really easy to overthink oil.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-08-2013, 04:28 PM
It's really easy to overthink oil.

http://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gif

mikeg205
10-08-2013, 11:39 PM
With the thought in mind of changing the oil at winterization, and winter lay-up being considerable in Minnesota, my MCOCD tells me that after I fire her up in spring and burn out the fogging oil, I should change the oil again. If that is the case, the oil that sits in the engine over winter just gets run once while on the trailer with no load, I could get away with winterizing with some plain old 10w-40 Valvoline and putting the 20w-50 VR1 Valvoline in at spring feel good about the oil all year.

quit enabling... !!!!

thatsmrmastercraft
10-08-2013, 11:46 PM
quit enabling... !!!!

Just sayin'

captain planet
10-09-2013, 11:20 AM
CP, you have over 5000 posts and 20 hours in a season? Numbers seem off lol.

Busy with the Ron Paul thread?:D:D:D

Ha ha. That 20 hours was the 2012 boating season. The drought around here made our lake basically useless after the 4th of July because of low water, hence the low hours. I had about 70 this season.

captain planet
10-09-2013, 11:22 AM
You will be fine, it did not run long enough to significantly build up contaminates.
The old 3k/3mo rule is out the window for anyone with their head not stuck in an oil can that needs a church key to open.

IF it were me and doing an oil change myself, I would probably do it for the $20 in oil.
Probably be lazy and not change filter as that other .5 qt will not be significant and the filter did not have anywhere close to enough hours on it.
If I was paying dealer price for it, I would probably skip or if I had wasted $$ on synthetic I would not.

??? I wish the oil I used only cost $20. :(

mikeg205
10-09-2013, 11:28 AM
??? I wish the oil I used only cost $20. :(

Shell Rotella and a Fram Filter @ wally world - under $20... ;)

thatsmrmastercraft
10-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Shell Rotella and a Fram Filter @ wally world - under $20... ;)

Cheaper than Valvoline VR1 SAE 20W-50 Racing.

501s
10-09-2013, 12:53 PM
CP, 70 hours is more like it.

mikeg205
10-09-2013, 01:15 PM
Cheaper than Valvoline VR1 SAE 20W-50 Racing.

got that right. even moving up to a NAPA 41060 Platinum Oil Filter - ;) - Just for my MCOCD sake.. ;)

bsloop
10-10-2013, 04:59 PM
Wow, really I was not trying to start an oil thread however like any question, there is an answer and a REASON therefore I can see where this would lead to an oil debate regardless of my prodding.

??? I wish the oil I used only cost $20. :(

Just because you pay more does not mean it protects any better under average conditions.

Shell Rotella and a Fram Filter @ wally world - under $20... ;)

Cheaper than Valvoline VR1 SAE 20W-50 Racing.

Pretty close, Castrol 15w-40 and a Wix.
Buy the oil and filter on sale and $20 is doable. $35 if you are spontaneous.

In older, non-catalytic motors especially (zinc is shortens Cat life), the added zinc and phosphorous are advantageous for protecting drivetrain components in motors running higher spring pressure (compression) and extended high rpm use.
Why do we care about Zinc? http://classiccars.about.com/od/maintenancetips/a/Zddp-Debunking-The-Urban-Legend-This-Motor-Oil-Additive.htm

Another good write up on ZDDP - http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3100/performance_oils_and_additives_got_zinc.aspx

This is why Diesel motor oils are a decent non-specific choice and cost effective. Tection Extra 15w-40 I am running tested at 1059 zinc and 823 phos AFTER 18,500miles in my Dmax.
This should be sufficient for my non-modified marine motor and 9 years with 700 hrs since I purchased it used is enough real world proof for me.

Educated discussion on engine needs from a Chevelle PERFORMANCE motor thread, keep in mind these are high hp motors not our very mild (in comparison) marine engines.-
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=173215
These are some excerpts from Scott Wheaton on Team Chevelle on Pages 14 and 15. The link for the entire post is below.

"The Rotella's zddp is too low at approx 1050-1100ppm vs Chevron Delo at 1300 ppm on a recommended minimum of 1200-1400 ppm zddp for flat tappet cams.
I like to see at least 1300-1400ppm zddp for even mild performance cams.

Valvoline Premium Blue Heavy Duty Diesel Oil has 1100 PPM of ZDDP. The Synthetic Blend version also has 1100 PPM of ZDDP.
The Tech at Valvoline recommended Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil which has 1400 PPM ZDDP.
As for Valvoline Premium Blue Heavy Duty Diesel Oil 15W-40 has 1100 PPM of ZDDP. The Synthetic Blend version also has 1100 PPM of ZDDP.
The Tech at Valvoline recommended Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil which has 1400 PPM ZDDP.
You could also buy Spectro's new motor guard series oil (same as summits new hi performance oil) for flat tappet cams with 1,800ppm zddp or run valvolines VR1- race oil with 1400ppm zddp.

Since there are now better alternatives out there zddp wise today I would only run the Chevron Delo with stock to very mild aftermarket RV type performance cams.
That's becuase the Delo oil has just enough zddp to do the job with stock to very mild perf cams but now Spectro/Summit or Valvoline VR1 oil can both be run with just about any level flat tappet performance cam without worrying if there's enough zddp to properly cover the performance level of flat tappet cam being run."

Quote from another discussion - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=printthread&Board=1&main=103235&type=thread
"If you only change once a year, price isn't a consideration. I would SUGGEST that you CONSIDER either Mobil 1 V twin, 20W-50 motorcycle oil or Amsoil 20W-50 ARO. The Mobil 1 has a ZDDP level of 1600 and is a full PAO synthetic.
The Amsoil has about 1300 phosphorus and 1400 Zinc and is also a PAO synthetic.
Amsoil also makes an excellent 20W-50 motorcycle oil that has the elevated phosphorus and zinc but also has a HTHS of 5.0, excellent anti foam, detergent, dispersant, anti corrosion, and more. I suggest you look at the Amsoil and Mobil 1 product data sheets.
If limited to the two you mentioned, the VR1 20W-50 has a better detergent package and much higher ZDDP. The Synpower 20W-50 has a less detergent package and something like an 840/760 zinc/phosphorus package."


Running high levels than necessary of ZDDP is also not advisable as zinc will tend to increase contaminates under higher stress conditions.
Using a general synthetic and changing at 50 hrs is a waste of the longevity properties of an oil and does nothing for higher ZDDP levels.

As for the 3k mile guys, I have run Used Oil Analysis on our Avalon with Castrol 10-30 to 15k miles over 8 months with no compromise of oil properties. The past couple years, I switched to Castrol full syn 5-30 and go once a year, 25k miles with a premium filter with no significant ill effects noted on my UOA.
I run Amsoil 5-40 in my Dmax with 3yr, 40k mile changes using by-pass filtration. (this is barely cost effective vs standard mfg 10-12k oil changes given my current lower annual mileage) My original oil change on standard Castrol Tection 15-40 went 18,500mi w by-pass and had fine UOA measurements.

My point is, I am not a synthetic or specialized hater but the extra cost is a waste if not used intelligently. Not to mention standard automotive synthetic will have ZDDP values of 800/650 that are below the 1000-1200 generally recommended for standard, older engine operation.