PDA

View Full Version : Integrated Bow Sac Install 2002 xstar


Zad
10-07-2013, 12:56 PM
A few weeks back I installed the MC piggyback bow ballast upgrade from WakeMakers. I have a 2002 xstar and before installing I was worried about how I would be able to get at the Starboard vent line hull penetration. I guess each boat is hand made and the location of various things, including the vent lines, vary from boat to boat. Mine looked very hard to reach. As it turned out, I was able to lay on my back with the starboard bow seat cushion removed, feet toward the bow and reach up through the under seat storage and work by feel. It was tight but definitely do-able, and I am a big guy with big mitts. I started by disconnecting the stock vent lines on both sides (the port one is easily reached from the battery compartment) at the hull. Both hull through connects were loose and needed tightening. I checked all the others too and all of them were loose. This will be a part of routine maintenance from now on. Then I attached the quick connects to the stock vent lines that came with the IBS kit. Next came the nipples on the bag (4 of them) and then connected the lower, rear nipples to the old vent lines on each side for the fill lines and finally hooked up the upper nipples on the bag to the through connection in the hull for the vents. The guys at wake makers told me it would be easy and it was. It ties in very nicely with the stock ballast, filling automatically when the ski locker bag is full and emptying automatically too. Simple and nicely integrated. The only downside is that I just can't see how it gets 650 pounds of water in there. The seat frame constricts the bag preventing it from filling completely. My guess would be that it adds about 350 pounds at most. To get the full benefit of the bag you would have to lay it on the bow seats losing all the convenience of it being hidden away. To help out I put two 150 pound fat sacs on the bow seats and fill with a Tsunami when we don't have extra bodies in the boat. All-in-all I am happy with the product and easy of install...that is until I can afford a boat that comes with a surf gate and requires no messing around with extra sacs, boat lean etc. etc.

wheelerd
10-08-2013, 02:59 AM
I installed the IBS on my X2 this summer. I just left the starboard overflow hose attached to the thru-hull and cut it just above floor level and attached it to the sac. If I ever want to return it to stock I just need to insert a coupler at the cut point with two clamps and it's back to original. Took me all of 2 minutes.

And ya, you'll only get 300 lbs or so. The cup holders will pop up too -- that's how you know it's full!

JRW160
10-08-2013, 09:31 AM
I always had to run extra sacs on the front seats with the integrated bow sac, so I just got rid of it and switched to the open bow triangle. Having that extra storage up front is nice as well.

Tristarboarder
10-08-2013, 11:19 AM
Did you find that that the open bow triangle gave you better wake performance....as in significantly over the IBS system then? Who makes the triangle? Can you sit on it when full/empty?

JRW160
10-08-2013, 12:25 PM
Did you find that that the open bow triangle gave you better wake performance....as in significantly over the IBS system then? Who makes the triangle? Can you sit on it when full/empty?
With 750s in the back, the wake is much better with the open bow triangle. Without running a bunch of lead, there just isn't any other way to get enough weight up front to offset the 750s in the back. Fly high makes the triangle. It holds 1000-1200lbs. I think you could sit on it, but I don't think anyone would want to. When I empty it, I store it under one side of bow seats.

swatguy
10-15-2013, 11:50 PM
I agree with JRW. However instead of running the triangle I run the IBS on the top of my bow seats. Ran the hoses through cutout in cup holder. I keep about 200 lbs in pop bags stuffed all the way to the nose.


Just FYI. You could've removed the kick panel under the drivers helm to access the vent lines much easier,get an easy eyeball, and not have to contort like crazy to get at things.

JRW160
10-16-2013, 03:20 PM
Here's my daughter standing on the open bow triangle. It's about as high as the top edge of the boat, so I don't think anyone would want to sit on it.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g2iN5q3indY/Ul7YPv_58rI/AAAAAAABgY4/O3Qwu5tVW88/s400/20131011_152146.jpg

Tristarboarder
10-17-2013, 10:42 AM
When are you guys using either the IBS or the triangle? Are you filling it for just surfing, or for both surfing and wakeboarding? Also, what weights are you guys using for both the center locker and the rear? I am looking to get my wake dialed in with my new boat (in the Spring) and just curious what you have found makes both a nice wake and surf wake. Thanks.

wheelerd
10-17-2013, 11:03 AM
Have not used the IBS when boarding -- just the KGB and about 350lbs in each rear locker. The 205v/X2/X1 hull throws a mean wake for boarding with the basic stock ballast.
For surfing I use IBS, KGB, and 750lbs on port side, plus a couple of people on port side.

Tristarboarder
10-17-2013, 01:25 PM
Excellent, thanks.

JRW160
10-17-2013, 01:33 PM
I use the triangle when wakeboarding and fill the ~300lb kgb. With just one or two people in the boat, I also fill the 750s in the back. If there are more people in the boat, I run the 750s around half full. You have to run a little faster with that much weight. It's clean at 80' at 24.7mph. You can ride at 70' at around 23.0mph.

For surfing if I already have the triangle full, I'll leave it up there. I also fill the kgb and the 750 in the rear on the surf side. The only difference I've noticed with the triangle when surfing is that it will keep the corner of the platform out of the water and keep it from causing the wake to wash a little.

swatguy
10-17-2013, 03:17 PM
I run pretty much identical to JRW. 750's full, custom locker sac 400-425lbs. Ibs on top of seat and 200lbs pop bags in the bow as far forward as I can get. I ride 24.7mph at 80ft
I also have 150 lbs under my observer rear seat to balance it out as I usually ride with just my wife and daughters. If I get 4 adults in the boat I back off the 750's a bit as well.



For sufring tho I found running my ibs half full to almost nothing gave me the best surf wave. However I ride goofy as does my entire family. I don know guys whe swear keeping the bow sac full helps the surf wave on the regular side. For me tho if I do that it feels like I loose tons of push on the goofy side.

Tristarboarder
10-17-2013, 05:02 PM
I appreciate the vast wealth of knowledge...

Aric'sX15
10-22-2013, 12:26 PM
In Budmanv24's x1, we run 750s in the back, the ibs on top of the seats exploding full, and kgb full, at 23.5 I think and at 70 or 75 feet. It's a wall! Love it. More weight in the front is a must. What sac would you 205V guys put in the walkway on top of kgb?

Tristarboarder
10-22-2013, 01:05 PM
That's Sweeeeet!!

Aric'sX15
10-22-2013, 11:20 PM
yeah i need me a 205V!

swatguy
10-23-2013, 10:38 AM
An old 600 cylinder sac fits perfectly if you're looking to add it in addition to the ibs. The new 750 is humongous and will take up the entire length very far into the cockpit, not to mention put a ton of stress on the side walls of the driver console and make it flex. So a new fly high v drive sac I think would fit.

Honestly though if you can grab 200-300lbs of lead/pop bags and throw them as far forward as u can it works just as well. Even when you want it empty the lead adds to the performance amd helps the ride in rough water.

BudmanV24
01-08-2014, 12:04 PM
I'm looking to move the ibs from on top of my seats to under it to regain some cockpit space. At the same time I'll obviously be loosing atleast 300lbs of ballast. Anyone have success with the x-star walkway sac in the 205v/x2/x1 walkway?

http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-mastercraft-walk-through-sac.html

Tristarboarder
01-08-2014, 12:53 PM
^ in addition to Bud's questions, what exactly is a "pop bag"? Where would one find lead to put in the bow?

JRW160
01-08-2014, 01:13 PM
^ in addition to Bud's questions, what exactly is a "pop bag"? Where would one find lead to put in the bow?
They are just bags filled with lead or steel used for additional ballast. There is a company called pop products, but I believe they use steel shot in their bags. I have heard good things about a company called leadwake.

Quinten
01-08-2014, 01:33 PM
^ in addition to Bud's questions, what exactly is a "pop bag"? Where would one find lead to put in the bow?

This is the site of the manufacter of pop bags http://www.pop-products.com/index.html.
A bag with some lead or steel in it. It is possible to diy. :)

Tristarboarder
01-08-2014, 01:56 PM
Awesome, thanks....always learning...

monsterwake
04-01-2014, 04:21 PM
Now I am convinced I need to sell my old 400# VDrive sacs and buy the bow triangle to go with my 750# sacs. I would need a filler cusion. Any how to DIY tricks there? Other than an ice chest... LOL

JRW160
04-01-2014, 05:36 PM
Now I am convinced I need to sell my old 400# VDrive sacs and buy the bow triangle to go with my 750# sacs. I would need a filler cusion. Any how to DIY tricks there? Other than an ice chest... LOL

I bought a piece of 1/2" starboard and cut it to fit and sit on the ledge of the bow seats. After that I made a cardboard template and took it to an upholstery shop and told them how thick to make the cushion. I think I paid $75 for the cushion and maybe $40 for the starboard. I put some cabinet shelf liner down on the ledge under the seat to keep the starboard from directly contacting the gelcoat under there.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xOal8USSE3E/T0lsmG4WuFI/AAAAAAAAp_w/Wjl-ANsK8F0/s640/IMG_20120225_160037.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KPVqb8c28-8/TzXNE1oEa8I/AAAAAAAAp7w/nHAg_nGIAbo/s640/IMG_20120210_200550.jpg

monsterwake
04-01-2014, 11:44 PM
I bought a piece of 1/2" starboard and cut it to fit and sit on the ledge of the bow seats. After that I made a cardboard template and took it to an upholstery shop and told them how thick to make the cushion. I think I paid $75 for the cushion and maybe $40 for the starboard. I put some cabinet shelf liner down on the ledge under the seat to keep the starboard from directly contacting the gelcoat under there.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xOal8USSE3E/T0lsmG4WuFI/AAAAAAAAp_w/Wjl-ANsK8F0/s640/IMG_20120225_160037.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KPVqb8c28-8/TzXNE1oEa8I/AAAAAAAAp7w/nHAg_nGIAbo/s640/IMG_20120210_200550.jpg

That's perfect. Thanks JRW. Where did you purchase the starboard?

BudmanV24
04-02-2014, 12:32 AM
Ive been using a 400lb vdrive sac in thw bow walkway in addition to the kgb and ibs with good results. I'll post picks next time we go out.

Aric'sX15
04-02-2014, 12:45 AM
The 400 in the walkway mellows the wave out for sure, I like my wakes nice and wall like!

VP46
04-02-2014, 01:30 AM
RE DIY:

Quarters....a bit on the pricey side but you will always have Gas money on hand ;)

a roll = 40 coins = $10 = 1/2 lb

2 rolls = 1 lb = $20

800 rolls = 400lbs = $8000.00


Which at $19.00 for 1/4lb is WAAAY cheaper than pinewood derby Tungsten!!

https://www.derbymonkeygarage.com/images/products/preview/7971.jpg

JRW160
04-02-2014, 10:07 AM
That's perfect. Thanks JRW. Where did you purchase the starboard?
I got it from plastec profiles. Their number is 717-593-9200. They can cnc cut the starboard if you send them custom measurements. I can take some measurements on mine when I get home tonight if you want to go that route. I just ordered a sheet and cut it myself.

Aric'sX15
04-02-2014, 12:07 PM
RE DIY:

Quarters....a bit on the pricey side but you will always have Gas money on hand ;)

a roll = 40 coins = $10 = 1/2 lb

2 rolls = 1 lb = $20

800 rolls = 400lbs = $8000.00


Which at $19.00 for 1/4lb is WAAAY cheaper than pinewood derby Tungsten!!

https://www.derbymonkeygarage.com/images/products/preview/7971.jpg

This creates a whole new stereotype for mastercraft owners! Money for ballast! Lol

JamesL
04-02-2014, 12:31 PM
I hope I see someone with $8000.00 in quarters on their boat.

Aric'sX15
04-02-2014, 12:34 PM
Your wish is my command

monsterwake
04-02-2014, 05:55 PM
Ive been using a 400lb vdrive sac in thw bow walkway in addition to the kgb and ibs with good results. I'll post picks next time we go out.

Thanks BudmanV24. I was thinking that I would need more weight in the front since I can't hardly get the bow down and I have both 400's up there. I couldn't get the one in the walkway full because of the walls.

TOO-TALL
04-02-2014, 08:12 PM
My boat puts out a nice wake now..After reading this thread and all the weight you guys put in the 205 hulls....looks insane.

wheelerd
04-02-2014, 08:32 PM
My boat puts out a nice wake now..After reading this thread and all the weight you guys put in the 205 hulls....looks insane.

Ditto.
I'm happy with the boarding wake as it is -- it gives me all (and more) than my current ability can handle. What I'd like to fine tune is a better surfing wake.

JRW160
04-02-2014, 11:19 PM
Since monsterwake asked if I plumbed the bow sac in, I figured I would post up some pictures of how I have it setup. I didn't want to add another pump, so I have a 3 way ball valve mounted behind the starboard rear seat in the hatch that will switch flow from the kgb to the bow triangle. When we hit the water I start filling the 750s and the kgb. I also throw a tsunami pump on the open bow triangle. When the kgb fills, I switch the flow from that pump to the open bow triangle. When the bow triangle is close to full I take the tsunami off and cap the top port on the triangle. The bow triangle usually finishes filling about the same time the 750s are full. Since the bow sac isn't up there all of the time, I have a hose in the ski locker with a quick release fitting on it. I also added a small bilge access port in the ski locker lid to run the hose through. Before I added the bilge access port, the ski locker wouldn't shut with the bow triangle up front and people we always stepping on it and kinking the hose. I also added a 12v adapter up front right under the bow filler cushion because I got tired of reaching under the dash to hook up the pumps.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rz-YkQRyQm8/UdcqF27PTtI/AAAAAAABa_U/w5_cXIhwHnA/s640/20130705_115257.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8HMDKK247wo/UUvB-Qjx41I/AAAAAAABqNI/DwLj6s9Ko0s/s640/20130321_211638.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KON8TmyqOiM/UdcqLu2yIQI/AAAAAAABa_c/CfIaULSdPgs/s640/20130705_115333.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--I3TO2aFIyM/UzzDgZdFqTI/AAAAAAABqOE/_CNT174ZQe0/s640/20140402_210053.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tmABIBiYick/UzzDXlj-T4I/AAAAAAABqN8/6iiY4mAwVN0/s640/20140402_210031.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-utDd30MhK3U/UDAKc0o-4MI/AAAAAAABHSI/ZXvnQn6sebM/s640/IMG_20120818_085840.jpg

wheelerd
04-02-2014, 11:31 PM
You're one smart cookie.:D

monsterwake
04-03-2014, 10:49 AM
This is great. Thanks JRW.