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RickDV
10-22-2005, 09:57 PM
I know you're supposed to drain the manifold when winterizing. I was unable to remove the drain plugs on either manifold, even with a breaker bar. I applied as much pressure as I dared, to the point that I was concerned that I might strip out the plug or cause other damage. So I did not drain the manifold. It was, in my mind, the lesser of the evils.

This was the first time I winterized the boat myself, and only the second winter storage season that I have owned the boat. It does not look like the drain plugs have been off in the a long time. I can't imagine the dealer was able to get them off when I had in for winterization last year.

I ran 3 gallons of anti-freeze throught the system, so in theory there should be plenty of pink in the manifold. Do I need to worry about it?

MarkP
10-22-2005, 10:30 PM
I would think you are covered. But I would imagine you could remove the hose at the other end and add anti freeze to be sure..

Anyone else think that would work??

erkoehler
10-22-2005, 10:33 PM
Dude, your messing with the devil there.....was the water atleast slightly tinted pink that was coming out of the exhaust in the back? I would get 3 more gallons for peace of mind.

3 additional gallons = $20
New block = 4 grand

RickDV
10-22-2005, 10:40 PM
Yes, it was very pink. I did run an extra gallon...it normally only takes 2 gallons. I ran a 3rd to be sure.

erkoehler
10-22-2005, 10:42 PM
How far away is the nearest dealer?

east tx skier
10-22-2005, 10:42 PM
Give those manifold plugs a squirt with PB Blaster. Let it soak in really good, then give it another try if you're interested in getting them off. I wrap my threads with teflon tape for this reason. My brass plugs were a pain to get out the first time as well.

erkoehler
10-22-2005, 10:46 PM
:twocents: You could always swing it by the dealer and have them remove them for you. I personally wouldn't want to store it for a MI winter without it being drained.

RickDV
10-22-2005, 10:52 PM
:twocents: You could always swing it by the dealer and have them remove them for you. I personally wouldn't want to store it for a MI winter without it being drained.

The dealer is only about 20 minutes away, but they are so busy this time of year I don't know when they would get me in. I could check with them on that, but I think adding more pink may be the better option.

erkoehler
10-22-2005, 11:01 PM
:D Call them up, if they are unwilling to take 10 minutes to look at the block and try their hand at getting the plug out, then it would be the end of me supporting them. Customer service is key, and the situation you are in could lead to major problems if the water in there is not diluted enough.

Whats 30 minutes of your time, give them the opportunity to help you

east tx skier
10-22-2005, 11:09 PM
I'm tellin' ya. PB Blaster works.

RickDV
10-22-2005, 11:10 PM
Give those manifold plugs a squirt with PB Blaster. Let it soak in really good, then give it another try if you're interested in getting them off. I wrap my threads with teflon tape for this reason. My brass plugs were a pain to get out the first time as well.

I have not heard of PB Blaster before. Is it the same thing as WD40?

erkoehler
10-22-2005, 11:12 PM
Here it is:

http://www.clean4less.com/Product/Result.asp?Sku/clean-eqPB%201007

east tx skier
10-22-2005, 11:39 PM
JimN recommended it a while back. I don't know it's anything like WD40. I've used it on lots of stuff with good results.

Leroy
10-22-2005, 11:57 PM
Doug is right, and after the blaster, tap the plugs with a small hammer or hit many times very easy (similar to tapping on a jar lid to make it easy to open). I've used similar stuff many times and it works.

bigmac
10-23-2005, 12:26 AM
Doug is right, and after the blaster, tap the plugs with a small hammer or hit many times very easy (similar to tapping on a jar lid to make it easy to open). I've used similar stuff many times and it works.

Also consider using a heat gun. I'd be reluctant to use any kind of torch, except maybe a butane pencil torch, but the penetrating oil + tapping + heat oughta get those things out of there. When replacing, I'd coat with a little Never-Sieze or at least a pipe thread sealant. The plugs are brass. I can't imagine that you are going to damage the block, even with some serious crankage.

JimN
10-23-2005, 12:36 AM
RickDV- PB Blaster is way better than WD 40, IMO. I haven't found anything that works better.

By the way, some manifold plugs are cast iron(or steel) and can rust in place. The Teflon tape/pipe dope is a good idea, though.

PendO
10-23-2005, 01:14 AM
Isn't PB Blaster the one with commercials that say "Don't bust your knuckles, bust your nutz and bolts with PB Blaster."

bigmac
10-23-2005, 01:27 AM
By the way, some manifold plugs are cast iron(or steel) and can rust in place.

Doh! I didn't see that his boat is an '89. Sorry.

costal190
10-23-2005, 08:42 AM
I have to work on equipment that has been in use out in the weather for over 30 years an a squirt of PB Blaster and about 30 min. to soak in work on rusty nuts & bolts. If i am in a hurry or I want the PB Blaster to penetrate deeply I add some heat from my tourch but would probably not recommend the torch to your manifold, just wet it down good a couple of times with the PB Blaster and let it do its work. If in a half hr it doesn't come off spray it down again and waight another half hr.

lakes Rick
10-23-2005, 11:07 AM
I use PB blaster myself, but I do understand another great product like this is called Kroil.......

Kevin 89MC
10-24-2005, 01:05 PM
I've used Kroil, it's def better than wd-40. I need to try PB blaster sometime to get a comparison. If it's really stuck, neither may help. A little heat might help, but not much - you don't want the plugs to expand. A friend of mine can't get his off either on his '92 Prostar, and he uses a special thin hose on his shop vac to get through the front of the manifolds to get it sucked out of the back where the plugs are. He's had good luck so far, here in Minnesota.
Good luck, Kevin

hleepert
10-24-2005, 02:31 PM
I would do what you need to get the plugs out. I ran five gallons of antifreeze through but missed removing the knock sensor on the driver side and ended up cracking the block. Not a good feeling in the spring time. Michigan winters are too cold.

Workin' 4 Toys
10-24-2005, 04:16 PM
Isn't PB Blaster the one with commercials that say "Don't bust your knuckles, bust your nutz and bolts with PB Blaster."
Yup.
Sea Foam also makes a nut buster.

88 PS190
10-24-2005, 08:54 PM
Breakfree CLP is where its at!. Replace those plugs with brass ones, and be done w/ the problem.

costal190
10-24-2005, 09:40 PM
If or should I say when you get the plugs out my advise would be to buy the drain kit that Discount Inboard Marine sells to drain your block & manifold. They are half turn ball valves and or petcocks. Well worth it for speady & easy winterization.

RickDV
10-24-2005, 09:49 PM
If or should I say when you get the plugs out my advise would be to buy the drain kit that Discount Inboard Marine sells to drain your block & manifold. They are half turn ball valves and or petcocks. Well worth it for speady & easy winterization.

The interesting thing is that a previous owner installed these petcocks on the block drain plugs but not on the manifold drain plugs. I was able to drain the block with no problem. I only ran into problems with the manifold.

I picked up some PB Blaster today and will give it a try as soon as I get a chance.

88 PS190
10-24-2005, 10:04 PM
I think petcocks are standard on the block, its an after thought on the older engines.

We chissled the plugs to get grip in them and turned them out, but this was because a previous owner was a gorrilla and they were rounded.

We are working on upgrading/restoring/rehabing our boat.

Laurel_Lake_Skier
10-24-2005, 10:42 PM
Others are on target with the Kroil.....good stuff (though not a terrific smell to it). I had a tough time getting my plugs out the first fall after I bought my 91. The Kroil soaking over night, some heat from a propane tourch and a bit of tapping on the plugs before applying the breaker bar did the trick for me. I didn't have a problem with heating up the area around the plugs....I think you'd have a tough time getting things too hot with a propane tourch......the manifold does stand up to hot exhaust gasses without a meltdown.

Hoff1
10-25-2005, 09:57 AM
At work we have to deal with steel plugs and cast iron headers quite a lot. Our service techs use every trick in the book to get them out (drill, torch, hammer, cheater bars). Sometimes it results in a cracked part that is worthless. These parts are about 1/4" thick, so I don't know how the exhaust manifolds compare to that. What our guys do in the field is heat the plug up almost red then when it cools off just a little try to crack it. This is not a recommedation though.

I never remove my plugs, but Kentucky winters are like Wisconsin summers, well maybe not that bad. I drain my block at the ramp, drive several miles up and down hills, and then pure 1.5 gallons in through the each of the inlets of the manifolds. Has worked for me here.

east tx skier
10-25-2005, 10:08 AM
If or should I say when you get the plugs out my advise would be to buy the drain kit that Discount Inboard Marine sells to drain your block & manifold. They are half turn ball valves and or petcocks. Well worth it for speady & easy winterization.

Just monitor the flow if you're not going to pull the plugs altogether. Those petcocks can get clogged. Happened to my father-in-law this year. Just replaced mine with 1/4" pipe threaded brass plugs on the block (already had brass plugs on the manifolds). Can get them all off with a few turns of the socket and they drain extremely fast. The valve systems (like they have at skidim are really convenient, but just monitor them closely for good flow. Silt and rust deposits can block them. I decided that even if I had the valve setup, I'm enough of a worrier that I'd end up removing them just to be sure.

WilliM1940
10-30-2005, 10:31 PM
I had the same trouble with an '85, also my first winterization. Couldn't get a good enough purchase with the breaker bar angle, so resorted to a pipe wrench and cheater bar, there was enough usable plug exposed (but not much) to do this. I don't think these things were ever out before, no fluid came out until I punched through a lot of rust scale. Course this was after I put in two gallons of antifreeze, kind of messy afterwards. New plugs and teflon tape for next year.

6ballsisall
10-30-2005, 10:34 PM
I couldn't get mine out today so gave up. I emptied the petcock on my block and after closing that up I let the motor sip up 6 gallons of antifreeze. I feel pretty good about that taking care of things

RickDV
10-30-2005, 10:39 PM
Well even with PB Blaster I was not able to remove the plugs...I think someone else tried before me and pretty near stripped out the head of the plug so my breaker bar can't get a good lock.

I did remove the hose at the top of the manifold and dumped in another gallon of antifreeze (in addition to the 3 gallons I ran through it earlier).

I still don't know if this is sufficient or if I need to get those plugs out once and for all.

MarkP
10-30-2005, 10:39 PM
Give those manifold plugs a squirt with PB Blaster. Let it soak in really good, then give it another try if you're interested in getting them off. I wrap my threads with teflon tape for this reason. My brass plugs were a pain to get out the first time as well.Thanks for the teflon tape tip Doug. I added the T tape mine Sat..

Cloaked
10-31-2005, 12:07 AM
Graphite anti-seize (that I get for high temp steam valves) works well also. It's available at most any auto type retail.

Cloaked
10-31-2005, 12:12 AM
Well even with PB Blaster I was not able to remove the plugs...I think someone else tried before me and pretty near stripped out the head of the plug so my breaker bar can't get a good lock.

I did remove the hose at the top of the manifold and dumped in another gallon of antifreeze (in addition to the 3 gallons I ran through it earlier).

I still don't know if this is sufficient or if I need to get those plugs out once and for all.
I realize you have used about every effort and resource one could utilize but I wiggle in a 1/2" drive socket wrench into the head of the plug. I have seen some tough ones too but this is a direct method without (from what I understand here to be) any cantilever motion of an extension. I'd expect that with a little heat and some penetrating solution, that dang thing should break loose.

That will be plenty of anti-freeze, but don't forget the 50 / 50 mixture.

On the other hand (as an option for your plug removal problem), I'll be running an anti-freeze solution through my engine (by simply pouring it into the pickup line) until it comes out the exhaust, drain the elbow under the impeller housing, fog it, done deal.

Good luck if you further your attempts to remove the drain plugs. Patience.

east tx skier
10-31-2005, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the teflon tape tip Doug. I added the T tape mine Sat..

Good deal. I haven't had troulbe getting mine off since the first time since I started doing that.

lakes Rick
10-31-2005, 12:02 PM
When I plumbed my house for gas I used some thread sealant called "gasoila ?".. I have used whats left in the can for all sorts of sealing uses.. Stays pliable and the fittings come loose very easy... Just a thought.....