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CC2MC
09-30-2013, 11:57 AM
I have read a few threads on the Hurth Transmission rattling and MC sending out a Service Bulletin about it to change to motor oil, but I wanted to see if this video is similar to what is being discussed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a-Q4NQY3kY

Traxx822
09-30-2013, 12:00 PM
:eek: That doesn't sound good. I'd freak out too if I heard a noise like that. Hopefully the fluid is your issue.

CC2MC
09-30-2013, 12:12 PM
I am not freaking out yet, bc others have had what seems to be a similar issue as this is only shifting into fwd or reverse barely above idle speed. When at speed, there is no rattle. BTW, I had to take about half a dozen videos before my four yr old and 18 mo old were quiet enough and that is what I ended up with.

woodrowskis
09-30-2013, 12:14 PM
I have that sound in my boat. I do have motor oil instead of transmission fluid. I am not sure what I think is the problem. I am going to get the alignment checked this winter when I slow down skiing. But I have also had sounds much worse than that. I'll keep watching to see if you get any resolution before me and will inform if I figure it out.

CC2MC
09-30-2013, 02:10 PM
Woodrow, I plan on changing the transmission fluid, but do not really plan to do much more unless it is highly suggested that I do. I may run the video by Rambo to see what they think too.

munkymush
10-05-2013, 04:31 AM
I had a transmission rattle on a hurth 45c which was there at neutral and at idle in gear both ways..it disappeared at just off idle ..I read this was normal in some boxes but didn't happen in all of them ..I decided to swap transmissions to a second hand borg warner 71c.. this by and large cured it apart from a slightly irritating knock /rattle at idle in forward only.. which was loads better than the hurth. a few weeks later I needed to remove my lpg mixer and I noticed it had been leaking between it and the inlet manifold. I sealed this up and refitted ..,now it seems the rattle I had left has 90% gone it definitely idles better in gear ..its now idling quietly at 550 rpm in gear which it always rattled at before? there is lots of writings around saying the idle quality of the engine can cause a low speed rattle. but in my case I never thought it was the problem ..ive only used it twice since this repair but im loads happier with it already ..so I can only assume this air leak was contributing to the slightly unstable idle, although by no means was it running badly? it just had an intermittent tendency to hold a slightly higher idle speed. it pulled like a train and showed no symptoms of being weak at all, so maybe the writings about unstable idle are more relevant in some cases? Ill report how it goes in the future.im running on lpg only in the uk ..so its slightly different to petrol. but it does go to show how things can fool you.., the problem is do I go to the trouble of retrying the hurth ?? that's one for the future lol .

CC2MC
10-05-2013, 10:15 PM
I had a transmission rattle on a hurth 45c which was there at neutral and at idle in gear both ways..it disappeared at just off idle ..I read this was normal in some boxes but didn't happen in all of them ..I decided to swap transmissions to a second hand borg warner 71c.. this by and large cured it apart from a slightly irritating knock /rattle at idle in forward only.. which was loads better than the hurth. a few weeks later I needed to remove my lpg mixer and I noticed it had been leaking between it and the inlet manifold. I sealed this up and refitted ..,now it seems the rattle I had left has 90% gone it definitely idles better in gear ..its now idling quietly at 550 rpm in gear which it always rattled at before? there is lots of writings around saying the idle quality of the engine can cause a low speed rattle. but in my case I never thought it was the problem ..ive only used it twice since this repair but im loads happier with it already ..so I can only assume this air leak was contributing to the slightly unstable idle, although by no means was it running badly? it just had an intermittent tendency to hold a slightly higher idle speed. it pulled like a train and showed no symptoms of being weak at all, so maybe the writings about unstable idle are more relevant in some cases? Ill report how it goes in the future.im running on lpg only in the uk ..so its slightly different to petrol. but it does go to show how things can fool you.., the problem is do I go to the trouble of retrying the hurth ?? that's one for the future lol .

That is very interesting. I am not really looking to change out a transmission, especially after today. I posted in another thread but I changed out the transmission fluid, which had 15W-40 in it, mixed with a little water, as it was pretty milky. I am curious as to how the water entered the case in the first place. The good new for me is that the transmission still make a slight rattle, but sounds much quieter than before. I will check my fluid again in the spring after a few runs to see if the fluid is still milky. It may still have some residual watery oil in there and I may have to drain and refill. Hopefully there is no permanent damage that has been done. It seems to shift and pulls just fine.

mikeg205
10-05-2013, 10:38 PM
That is very interesting. I am not really looking to change out a transmission, especially after today. I posted in another thread but I changed out the transmission fluid, which had 15W-40 in it, mixed with a little water, as it was pretty milky. I am curious as to how the water entered the case in the first place. The good new for me is that the transmission still make a slight rattle, but sounds much quieter than before. I will check my fluid again in the spring after a few runs to see if the fluid is still milky. It may still have some residual watery oil in there and I may have to drain and refill. Hopefully there is no permanent damage that has been done. It seems to shift and pulls just fine.

Please check transmission cooler - this is the usual first place leaks start. Unless you flooded the bilge.

CC2MC
10-05-2013, 10:55 PM
I did not flood the bilge, but I do think I need to replace the packing bc I always seem to have more water in the bilge than I think I should, but only a half gallon to a gallon or so, which is quite far from flooding the bilge. I will check the cooler. Thanks.

mikeg205
10-05-2013, 11:01 PM
I did not flood the bilge, but I do think I need to replace the packing bc I always seem to have more water in the bilge than I think I should, but only a half gallon to a gallon or so, which is quite far from flooding the bilge. I will check the cooler. Thanks.

.5 to 1 gallon in bilge? that's nothing..... that's easily accounted for from packing drip and human drip... :) -- friend in Moomba (yes moomba) did not check or adjust packing for 3 years... 4 weeks ago - bilge almost full - 3 weeks ago - packing tightened.. now bilge has only a bit of water...

Have a local source for hydraulic hoses? if you wind up taking hoses off - why not put new hoses on.

cbryan70
10-05-2013, 11:06 PM
My motor was running on seven and I had a rattle. As soon as I put the 8th cylinder in the rattel stopped.

CC2MC
10-05-2013, 11:14 PM
I will have to try to tighten the packing nut a little. I am just guessing on the amount of water, bc most of it is under the gas tank and I cannot see it. I will say that I keep the bilge pump on auto and it has never come on. I had quite a bit of water in it the first weekend, probably from the PO pressure washing the carpet and the residual dripping. I tried to manually turn on the pump then to get some of that water out, but it was still too high above the water line. I thought it would easily pump it out, but apparently not.

Not sure on the hydraulic hoses other than an Autozone or something like that. I will check on that.

CC2MC
10-05-2013, 11:17 PM
My motor was running on seven and I had a rattle. As soon as I put the 8th cylinder in the rattel stopped.

My rattle was definitely in the transmission, not the engine. It has done it since I bought it, even when it was running on all 8. I cleaned the plug wires, so it was my fault that one was disconnected.

mikeg205
10-05-2013, 11:23 PM
I will have to try to tighten the packing nut a little. I am just guessing on the amount of water, bc most of it is under the gas tank and I cannot see it. I will say that I keep the bilge pump on auto and it has never come on. I had quite a bit of water in it the first weekend, probably from the PO pressure washing the carpet and the residual dripping. I tried to manually turn on the pump then to get some of that water out, but it was still too high above the water line. I thought it would easily pump it out, but apparently not.

Not sure on the hydraulic hoses other than an Autozone or something like that. I will check on that.

you'll need to find a source - Autozone won't have the hoses. check a local auto independent mechanic - he may have source - that's how I found mine.

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 03:55 AM
That's the noise the Hurth transmissions make. Mine does that too, even with the 15w40 in place of ATF. MasterCraft and Indmar claim it to not be a fail point, merely an "inconvenience". Aside from being a point that jealous buddies can jab me about, I've never had a problem.

It only happens when you engage the transmission right? Under load, there's nothing?

chevyluv
10-06-2013, 04:00 AM
how much water would someone call a flooded bilge? and how much should the packing drip. i have also noticed water in my transmission when i went to winterize my boat this year and am trying to track down my issue.

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 04:23 AM
These transmissions had a tendency to suck water in through the seals if the transmission itself was submerged while running. You're looking at like 5-6" of water in the bilge to sink the transmission. When I bought my boat, the clown previous owner had the ballast rigged to dump into the bilge, and drain via the bilge pump... Yeah, he didn't tell me that. I'm betting the trans was sunk often because when I drained it to swap for motor oil to help the rattle, it looked like a strawberry shake in there...

CC2MC
10-06-2013, 02:03 PM
That's the noise the Hurth transmissions make. Mine does that too, even with the 15w40 in place of ATF. MasterCraft and Indmar claim it to not be a fail point, merely an "inconvenience". Aside from being a point that jealous buddies can jab me about, I've never had a problem.

It only happens when you engage the transmission right? Under load, there's nothing?

Yes, it only happens when I engage the transmission and not under load. Changing the oil helped a good bit and I am not sure when the last time it was changed was.

When I bought my boat, the clown previous owner had the ballast rigged to dump into the bilge, and drain via the bilge pump...

Umm, that is just lazy. Why not just fill your bilge up with water and just use that as ballast at that point?

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 02:51 PM
Haha, good point. That's a quick way to sink the hull... Just flood it.

$2k at WakeMakers and 3 new thruhulls has that problem fixed. I checked the transmission fluid while winterizing and it was super clean. I still have the rattle, but I've stopped listening to it.

chevyluv
10-06-2013, 03:06 PM
These transmissions had a tendency to suck water in through the seals if the transmission itself was submerged while running. You're looking at like 5-6" of water in the bilge to sink the transmission. When I bought my boat, the clown previous owner had the ballast rigged to dump into the bilge, and drain via the bilge pump... Yeah, he didn't tell me that. I'm betting the trans was sunk often because when I drained it to swap for motor oil to help the rattle, it looked like a strawberry shake in there...

i suspect this could infact be my problem. being a noob boat owner i trusted what the dealer told me. i think my problem is my drip is wayyyyyy to fast because i quite comonly will have water just below the top of the t handle plug. (they told me this was normal) this would be after about 15 minutes of running it.

also one of my ballast sleeves split while on vacation and i came out in the morning to find water above my blower and about 3 inch above the top of my bilge pump.


now my question is i have just winterized my boat and flushed the fluid out once. so i still have water in the fluid will i be ok for the winter or should i still worry about freezing with water in the oil ?

it would be a lot easier to flush the transmission in the spring when i can warm it up a bit and the fluid will pump out a lot easier ? also do you guys usually buy a cheaper oil to flush them or just use your oil you would use regularly

thatsmrmastercraft
10-06-2013, 03:15 PM
i suspect this could infact be my problem. being a noob boat owner i trusted what the dealer told me. i think my problem is my drip is wayyyyyy to fast because i quite comonly will have water just below the top of the t handle plug. (they told me this was normal) this would be after about 15 minutes of running it.

also one of my ballast sleeves split while on vacation and i came out in the morning to find water above my blower and about 3 inch above the top of my bilge pump.


now my question is i have just winterized my boat and flushed the fluid out once. so i still have water in the fluid will i be ok for the winter or should i still worry about freezing with water in the oil ?

it would be a lot easier to flush the transmission in the spring when i can warm it up a bit and the fluid will pump out a lot easier ? also do you guys usually buy a cheaper oil to flush them or just use your oil you would use regularly

The little amount of water remaining will not cause an issue for freezing. It will be an issue for corrosion. I would flush the fluid two more times without running. You could warm the transmission fluid before filling. It's not the perfect scenario, but should be sufficient.

CC2MC
10-06-2013, 03:19 PM
i suspect this could infact be my problem. being a noob boat owner i trusted what the dealer told me. i think my problem is my drip is wayyyyyy to fast because i quite comonly will have water just below the top of the t handle plug. (they told me this was normal) this would be after about 15 minutes of running it.

also one of my ballast sleeves split while on vacation and i came out in the morning to find water above my blower and about 3 inch above the top of my bilge pump.


now my question is i have just winterized my boat and flushed the fluid out once. so i still have water in the fluid will i be ok for the winter or should i still worry about freezing with water in the oil ?

it would be a lot easier to flush the transmission in the spring when i can warm it up a bit and the fluid will pump out a lot easier ? also do you guys usually buy a cheaper oil to flush them or just use your oil you would use regularly

Being above the t-handle sounds like more than it should be to me. Being above the blower is too much for sure and that could be the culprit for your transmission having water in it for sure. Was you pump not working?

I would flush it out sooner than later. I would not want water sitting anywhere it is not supposed to sit for any length of time, frozen or not. Is it just too cold to run the boat now for you or what?

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 03:21 PM
I swapped for MotoMaster 15w40 Diesel oil from Canadian Tire. It's only like $17/Gallon so i just picked up two jugs. The service bulletin for the rattle mentioned that it was fine to suck out whatever ATF you can and fill with motor oil. It's not required to remove everything. As long as you removed the majority of the contaminated oil, I think you're fine.

CC2MC
10-06-2013, 03:29 PM
I swapped for MotoMaster 15w40 Diesel oil from Canadian Tire. It's only like $17/Gallon so i just picked up two jugs. The service bulletin for the rattle mentioned that it was fine to suck out whatever ATF you can and fill with motor oil. It's not required to remove everything. As long as you removed the majority of the contaminated oil, I think you're fine.

Is that $17 in USD? I just paid $13/gal here for Shell Rotella 15w-40 on sale. I just used the same oil for both the transmission and engine.

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 03:41 PM
Naw, That's CAD. I put Rotella in the engine, but it's $40/gallon here. I used the cheaper oil in the transmission because I was swapping it every 10 or so hours to make sure it was clean.

CC2MC
10-06-2013, 03:44 PM
I got ya. I may have to do something similar this spring after I run it for 10 hours or so. I just checked the exchange rate, which is not that bad. Oil sure is $$$ up there. Is gas the same way?

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 03:51 PM
Yep, and we make the stuff here. There's a ton of tax on petro products in Canada, although Alberta has it the easiest. It runs me about $120- $140CAD to fill my boat with mid-grade fuel. Too bad most of my buddies think it runs on, "thanks dude"s...

CC2MC
10-06-2013, 04:03 PM
Yep, and we make the stuff here. There's a ton of tax on petro products in Canada, although Alberta has it the easiest. It runs me about $120- $140CAD to fill my boat with mid-grade fuel. Too bad most of my buddies think it runs on, "thanks dude"s...

Wow. I really don't think I could afford to run mine like I do if it cost that much. I primarily go 5-10 gals at a time here. I had a buddy that has a rule that you can come ride any time you want as long as you bring a 5 gal can of gas with you. I never had a problem with that at all, as I didn't have a boat and was glad to get on the water, but I have not made that rule. I have had a few buddies pitch in for gas though without me even implying, so no complaints when that happens.

mikeg205
10-06-2013, 05:19 PM
Yep, and we make the stuff here. There's a ton of tax on petro products in Canada, although Alberta has it the easiest. It runs me about $120- $140CAD to fill my boat with mid-grade fuel. Too bad most of my buddies think it runs on, "thanks dude"s...

Hey Alberta I will mail you this decal if you stick it to your dash... gratis... I will even cover the post... I erased the non - family friendly word.. ;)

pm your address... :) -

thatsmrmastercraft
10-06-2013, 05:28 PM
Hey Alberta I will mail you this decal if you stick it to your dash... gratis... I will even cover the post... I erased the non - family friendly word.. ;)
pm your address... :) -
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=101881&stc=1&d=1381090732


http://blogdailyherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/3879-animated_gif-chuck_norris-dodgeball-thumbs_up.gif

AlbertaSurfer
10-06-2013, 05:55 PM
Haha, sweet!

CC2MC
10-06-2013, 08:49 PM
Hey Alberta I will mail you this decal if you stick it to your dash... gratis... I will even cover the post... I erased the non - family friendly word.. ;)

pm your address... :) -

Haha. Awesome.

chevyluv
10-08-2013, 02:24 AM
Being above the t-handle sounds like more than it should be to me. Being above the blower is too much for sure and that could be the culprit for your transmission having water in it for sure. Was you pump not working?

I would flush it out sooner than later. I would not want water sitting anywhere it is not supposed to sit for any length of time, frozen or not. Is it just too cold to run the boat now for you or what?

winterized the boat already. new oil and rv anti freeze through the block and flushed the tranny once. just dont want to have to drain it again to heat it up to do a bunch of flushs on the transmission. il flush it one more time and then do it a couple more times once the warmer weather comes back.