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View Full Version : Ski Progression - Worth it?


JMLVMI
09-20-2013, 01:19 PM
Hey guys,

I'm getting closer to running 30/-15, but not quite there yet. I'd like to get the "next level" ski as I plan to ski the course more and more. I'm on a 71" HO Triumph right now, which rides nice in the water but turns like a school bus.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Radar Senate C 69". I've read that it compares pretty closely to the HO Coefficient X, which was my next planned ski.

Am I making too big of a jump here? Not enough?

Bouyhead
09-22-2013, 11:22 PM
Running the course at 15 off at any speed is a major accomplishment, congrats! Big school bus turns are caused by riding the tail of the ski. You can be on a high end slalom ski with the Mac Daddy binding setup and guess what? Get on the tail and here comes the bus:D:D As long as your skiing slower speeds I think that HO is probably fine. 15 thru 28-32 off is all about working behind the boat.

Skipper
09-23-2013, 11:41 AM
Are you a big fella? 69 and 71 inch skis are very long. If you are 185lbs or less you may wanna go way down to a 67 inch ski. You would probably be able to run a 68 inch ski up into 220 lbs. You cannot go wrong with Radar. They are great skis.

Learning to ride the dumb things is what gets tough. Body position is critical, especially as you get deeper into the course. Bendnig the knees, getting the hips forward, keeping the handle at or below hip level at all times, quickly transitioning, paitiently waiting to hook up, you have nothing but fun times in your future.

mikeg205
09-23-2013, 11:47 AM
Are you a big fella? 69 and 71 inch skis are very long. If you are 185lbs or less you may wanna go way down to a 67 inch ski. You would probably be able to run a 68 inch ski up into 220 lbs. You cannot go wrong with Radar. They are great skis.

Learning to ride the dumb things is what gets tough. Body position is critical, especially as you get deeper into the course. Bendnig the knees, getting the hips forward, keeping the handle at or below hip level at all times, quickly transitioning, paitiently waiting to hook up, you have nothing but fun times in your future.

Triumph not a bad ski - Skipper is right.. I ride a 69 triumph and a 69 Coefficient xl/s - weigh 193... will be dropping to 185 hopefully for next season. Ski the Triumph mostly to ski slower to get my form right. I would be concerned more about form over the ski.

I saw vid of the owner of Pine Lake Ski school run the course in two skis.. if that's not turn a bus I don't know what is.. ;)

If you want the turn to feel like it's snapping around... the xl

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 01:44 PM
Running the course at 15 off at any speed is a major accomplishment, congrats! Big school bus turns are caused by riding the tail of the ski. You can be on a high end slalom ski with the Mac Daddy binding setup and guess what? Get on the tail and here comes the bus:D:D As long as your skiing slower speeds I think that HO is probably fine. 15 thru 28-32 off is all about working behind the boat.

That's true, and I don't want to be the proverbial 30 handicapper with pro clubs, but I'd like to keep progressing, and it seems like the Senate is a good middle of the road ski for buoy chasers.

Are you a big fella? 69 and 71 inch skis are very long. If you are 185lbs or less you may wanna go way down to a 67 inch ski. You would probably be able to run a 68 inch ski up into 220 lbs. You cannot go wrong with Radar. They are great skis.

Learning to ride the dumb things is what gets tough. Body position is critical, especially as you get deeper into the course. Bendnig the knees, getting the hips forward, keeping the handle at or below hip level at all times, quickly transitioning, paitiently waiting to hook up, you have nothing but fun times in your future.

I am a big guy...right now around 230, but down from 245 last month and hoping to get to 210 or so. There is no conceivable way I will be 185 any time soon, short of an illness!

I feel better and better each time I'm out there, and the video seems to support it...so much to look forward to, sucks that we're at the end of the season! :mad:

Triumph not a bad ski - Skipper is right.. I ride a 69 triumph and a 69 Coefficient xl/s - weigh 193... will be dropping to 185 hopefully for next season. Ski the Triumph mostly to ski slower to get my form right. I would be concerned more about form over the ski.

I saw vid of the owner of Pine Lake Ski school run the course in two skis.. if that's not turn a bus I don't know what is.. ;)

If you want the turn to feel like it's snapping around... the xl

I know CP and Nate could run the course with a 2x4 and rubber bands for binding, but I need all the help I can get :)

Jorski
09-23-2013, 01:49 PM
How much do you weigh, and how tall are you? Those are huge skis:confused:

Sorry..just saw new post above.


You might want to try something that's fairly wide, like an HO S2....would be much easier to turn a wider shorter ski than a 71" YIKES

If you get to 210...a 68" is fine.

TxsRiverRat
09-23-2013, 02:02 PM
Good lord... I have been as heavy as 5'11" 194 and never got above a 67.

we have a new guy in our club who skis a 67 connelly concept with double mid wraps... we had him try Kyles 67 A2 with double approaches and the improvement after about 2-3 passes was pretty significant.

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 02:13 PM
How much do you weigh, and how tall are you? Those are huge skis:confused:

Sorry..just saw new post above.


You might want to try something that's fairly wide, like an HO S2....would be much easier to turn a wider shorter ski than a 71" YIKES

If you get to 210...a 68" is fine.

Yea 6'2", 230...so the 69" should be good, and if I keep dropping weight then I'll keep going down. The Senate C is wider than the Strada, as the S2 is wider than the A2/A3. The S2 is a bit out of my price range.

TxsRiverRat
09-23-2013, 02:16 PM
Yea 6'2", 230...so the 69" should be good,

Agree

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Good lord... I have been as heavy as 5'11" 194 and never got above a 67.

we have a new guy in our club who skis a 67 connelly concept with double mid wraps... we had him try Kyles 67 A2 with double approaches and the improvement after about 2-3 passes was pretty significant.

So I should just get a $1,300 ski and that will fix it? :D

mikeg205
09-23-2013, 02:26 PM
I should asked here what length ski to buy and not listen to manufacturer... I'll be on my 69's for awhile... even if lose the 8-10 pounds I want... good side - if I don't won't matter.. ;)

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
Yea I don't really care about the maker, but IMO there is a clear progression of skis for the big guys:

HO: Freeride > Triumph > CoX/SL > S2/A3
Radar: Satori > P6 > Senate/C > Strada

The Senate C is the one staring me in the face right now...just want to make sure I'm not buying too much ski or that I'm wasting money with something that won't help at all.

jamisonsbrodie
09-23-2013, 04:18 PM
Jason,

You would not be buying too much ski with the Senate C. IMO, It is the one ski out there that you would be both comfortable on as well as unable to outgrow as you improve. Also, due to the success of the Senate C, I can guarantee that you could find a home for it if you don't like it (although I highly doubt that will be the case).

19_Skier
09-23-2013, 04:20 PM
Yea I don't really care about the maker, but IMO there is a clear progression of skis for the big guys:

HO: Freeride > Triumph > CoX/SL > S2/A3
Radar: Satori > P6 > Senate/C > Strada

The Senate C is the one staring me in the face right now...just want to make sure I'm not buying too much ski or that I'm wasting money with something that won't help at all.

sounds to me like you have already made your mind up on the Senate. For what it's worth, I am at a similar spot as you and ride a CoX. It is a very forgiving ski, real easy to turn and solid cross-course. At our level I believe it's more the indian and not the arrow that is the issue but hey, who doesn't love spending other peoples money ;) Buy the senate and enjoy it!

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 04:30 PM
...who doesn't love spending other peoples money ;) Buy the senate and enjoy it!

You would not be buying too much ski with the Senate C.

You guys aren't good for my bank account. It's a 2012 with the carbon and orange top with the all orange underside...so I was thinking it would go good with this boat currently on SIA :cool:

TxsRiverRat
09-23-2013, 04:35 PM
So I should just get a $1,300 ski and that will fix it? :D

I aint gonna lie to ya - his skiing was instantly better... almost looked like he was compensating on the old ski for having crap bindings

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 04:37 PM
I aint gonna lie to ya - his skiing was instantly better... almost looked like he was compensating on the old ski for having crap bindings

That's one thing I read on BOS...that moving from Wiley wraps to a one-piece (even the Vectors) will be a bigger change even than the ski. Looking forward to that...

ProTour-X9
09-23-2013, 08:44 PM
I was on a 69" Triumph and moved to a 67" Radar Vice after also trying the Senate, Concept, F1X, and V. I was not getting another HO. At first I thought the Senate was the ski for me and it was hard deciding between the two Radars. The Vice just had more aggression, though the Senate had better deep water starts (IIRC it was also a 69 vs the 67 Vice). I'm about your size and start the course 15off going 32mph. I think the Senate would be a great ski to get you into higher speeds :)

EDIT: Also just because manufacturers recommend a certain speed for their ranking of skis doesn't necessarily mean that the ski won't perform at slower speeds. Make sure you spend time on the ski before purchasing!

19_Skier
09-23-2013, 09:22 PM
You guys aren't good for my bank account. It's a 2012 with the carbon and orange top with the all orange underside...so I was thinking it would go good with this boat currently on SIA :cool:

new ski and new boat, you'll be running 38 off in no time..:D:rolleyes:

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 09:26 PM
Well the seller of the Senate C backed out, so I guess I'm back to shopping!

AlbertaSurfer
09-23-2013, 11:04 PM
Check out Ski It Again, there's a bunch of Senate's on there for a good price. I picked up a 2013 Theory for $275 brand new on there with bindings.

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=25297

JMLVMI
09-23-2013, 11:35 PM
Check out Ski It Again, there's a bunch of Senate's on there for a good price. I picked up a 2013 Theory for $275 brand new on there with bindings.

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=25297

That is the ski I was going to buy. The guy tried a Strada, didn't like it, and is sticking with his Senate C. Not a lot of big boy skis on the market right now...

AlbertaSurfer
09-23-2013, 11:50 PM
That's a bummer right there...

cbryan70
09-24-2013, 12:11 AM
i ski a connelly fx1 and like it. I am 6'1 250 down from 285. I think its a 69

Bouyhead
09-24-2013, 07:10 AM
new ski and new boat, you'll be running 38 off in no time..:D:rolleyes:

I thought on the internet everyone runs 38?:D:D

19_Skier
09-24-2013, 08:51 AM
I thought on the internet everyone runs 38?:D:D

shhhh......:D

bummer about the Senate C, maybe try finding a shop that will let you try before you buy?

JMLVMI
09-24-2013, 12:57 PM
shhhh......:D

bummer about the Senate C, maybe try finding a shop that will let you try before you buy?

No Radar dealers around here...Coble is right down the road for the CoX but I don't think they would let me take one with me :rolleyes:

I have a lead on a blank Senate right now, I can keep my bindings and see if I like the feel of the ski. I really want to move to Vectors though...

Kyle
09-24-2013, 01:06 PM
There is no need to buy a new ski if you are learning the course.

I sold phntmski a good A1 for $150 blank. There has been other ski deals like that too.

Ski some skis then buy a used ski somewhere. Phntmski has an A1 w approach bindings. He tried my med approaches and they were too small. I sold my approaches for $100 to another club member. (I too wear L).

Less than $300 and you can have a $1300-$1500 setup. If the ski looks new then it probably was not abused.

I run shortline and get into -38 a few times a year. TRR can vouch that Sunday was my 3rd time out in 9 weeks. So there are skis out there that good skiers have that are not worn out. A good skier is not going to be on a entry level ski. Keep looking online. The 14's are releasing since its after nationals and lots of people are peaked out and trying new products. More than likely someone will buy a 14 latest and greatest and you can get a good ski cheap.

In my ski career that has gone through the nationals, I can say I've only been on 2 brand new skis. The other 5-6 have been used.

JMLVMI
09-24-2013, 01:31 PM
There is no need to buy a new ski if you are learning the course.

...Keep looking online. The 14's are releasing since its after nationals and lots of people are peaked out and trying new products. More than likely someone will buy a 14 latest and greatest and you can get a good ski cheap.

That's what I figured. Come fall and winter when that big ski is taking up room in the garage ...sell it to me :cool:

LaRue
09-24-2013, 01:58 PM
not intending to thread jack but i am also looking for a used 69"Radar Senate C, blank or with XL bindings. I would then be selling a 2010 69" Radar Theory blank or with Vector XL Front binding and RTP.

JMLVMI
09-24-2013, 04:21 PM
not intending to thread jack but i am also looking for a used 69"Radar Senate C, blank or with XL bindings. I would then be selling a 2010 69" Radar Theory blank or with Vector XL Front binding and RTP.

Keep watching SIA and hope I don't beat you to it! :rolleyes: