PDA

View Full Version : Folding Tongue Stuck


CC2MC
08-18-2013, 11:23 PM
I was backing my "new" boat into the boat house just enough to fold the tongue on the trailer and have a little extra space behind the boat. When I went to pull the pin, apparently it was rusted in place as it has obviously not been used in a while, if ever. I tried to break it loose with a hammer and it didn't budge. I tried to slip a pair of pliers in the top ring to twist it loose and the ring broke. I sprayed it with WD-40 and let it sit for a little bit then tried to knock it loose with a 3lb sledge with no luck. I also tried to remove the bolt on the other side but had the same problem with it. Has anyone else had this problem? I am open to suggestions. Thankfully it fits in the boat house without having to fold it, but I am using nearly every inch.

JMLVMI
08-19-2013, 05:34 AM
Can you tell where it's binding? I have to push down on my tongue to pop mine out.

Mastercraft13
08-19-2013, 10:12 AM
Spray it down with some PB Blaster and let it sit overnight and see if that helps break her loose. I always swing mine away even though I don't necessarily have to just to keep it from locking up.

Moosecrackers
08-19-2013, 10:40 AM
Agree with the PB Blaster suggestion.

The pin in my trailer fits very tight - close clearances between the pin and the holes. I keep a light coating of oil on the pin and remove mine frequently. I put a padlock though the pin holes when I leave the boat as another roadblock to theft in my security plan.

CC2MC
08-19-2013, 10:55 AM
I did think about the PB Blaster, but I just didn't have any on me. I didn't try to push down on the tongue or anything, but maybe with the combination of the two, it will break loose. It will be a couple weeks before I get to work on it again, so I will see what I can figure out. Thanks.

TxsRiverRat
08-19-2013, 01:37 PM
Can you tell where it's binding? I have to push down on my tongue to pop mine out.

TMI! :D

CC2MC
09-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Well, I tried the PB Blaster and let it sit for three nights, beating it with a sledge every morning and then applying more PB Blaster, but this pin did not budge. The only other solution I can really think of is to break out the torch, which would ruin the paint and I would rather not do that if I don't have to. I did also try to twisting the pin with some vice grips, to no avail. Taking suggestions.

mikeg205
09-05-2013, 10:07 AM
Post up a picture... anything bent by chance or out of alignment? I am sure you did this a view may help... IMO

CC2MC
09-05-2013, 10:36 AM
I thought that too Mike and looked at it, but it didn't appear to be bent. I will get a picture tomorrow evening as I am out of town now.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-05-2013, 10:40 AM
I know from experience that draw bar pins can get pretty rusty and take quite a bit of time to free up. I would try to hit it with the PB Blaster 2-3 times a day and be sure to rap on the pin a few times after spraying as this will assist getting the penetrating oil where it needs to be.

CC2MC
09-05-2013, 12:29 PM
I forgot to add that I also left a bottle jack with pressure on the pin last week. Apparently it did not help either. Is there a stainless pin that is available so this doesn't happen again? Granted I will be foldin it every time so it shouldn't happen but jic.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-05-2013, 12:41 PM
Good idea with the jack.

JDC
09-05-2013, 08:13 PM
Well, I tried the PB Blaster and let it sit for three nights, beating it with a sledge every morning and then applying more PB Blaster, but this pin did not budge. The only other solution I can really think of is to break out the torch, which would ruin the paint and I would rather not do that if I don't have to. I did also try to twisting the pin with some vice grips, to no avail. Taking suggestions.Use an air hammer with a blunt nose bit and drive the pin up and out from the bottom. Wear old clothes and eye protection since all that penetrating spray you've been using will start flyin'. :)

On the bolt...
When I replaced my actuator from the "Reliable" to the UFP, I tried everything (PB Blaster for weeks, long breaker bar, 1/2 impact, 3/4" impact) all to no avail. I was going to use the old heat and beat method but I figured since the bolt runs through a sleeve, it would be somewhat insulated and wouldn't heat up enough to work anyway. It may have worked, but I didn't try.

I ended up taking it to my friend at his spring shop. He used a 1" impact and it took several seconds before it started turning. I smacked on it from the bottom as he continued with the impact and it walked out. The new bolt got a really nice coat of anti-seize before it went back together. ;)

Hope this helps,

pmikler
09-05-2013, 08:27 PM
Since the T handle broke off maybe weld on a nut and use that to twist will beating, cussing, etc....

Also by pounding on it are you mushrooming it out any and adding to the problem?

I can tell you that mine is very snug, as i am sure everyone is, and I keep anti seize on it. I tried just penetrating oil but it still seemed to lock up a bit after a couple weeks of sitting.

JDC
09-05-2013, 09:11 PM
Oops... I didn't catch that it was the type with a ring on the top. If it's just a straight shaft now, drive it down from the top... with the air hammer. Much easier than laying on your back. :o

Mine was a different type pin. It wasn't stuck, thankfully. Would have had to drive it up from the bottom, or cut the top off.

jakethebt
09-05-2013, 09:32 PM
It sounds like yours is really rusted. One thing to keep in mind is that the two parts of the trailer may be binding the bolt. When I am done towing and want to fold, I have to lift up on the the front of the trailer to relieve the bind. My pin then comes out much easier. Maybe that will help with the air chisel.

CC2MC
09-06-2013, 12:19 AM
It is starting to mushroom a little, but nothing that can't be ground back down easily. I have also tried lifting up on the tongue while beating the pin like a red headed step child. The thing is just stuck. The air hammer is an interesting suggestion. I will see if I know anybody around here that has one I can borrow.

CC2MC
09-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Does anyone know the size socket I will need for the bolt on the tongue? I borrowed a friend's impact wrench. I tried to put one of my socket's on there but it was too small and only goes up to 7/8", so I am guessing it is between 1"-1.25", but I would like to know and just go buy that size socket to make use of the impact. I can get a whole set for about $25 at Harbor Freight, but they do not sell the individual size I need, I don't believe.

Matt@semmergroup.com
09-11-2013, 10:36 AM
How about putting the bottle jack under the pin so all the weight/pressure is on the pin then from the top, hit the top plate of that area a few times. Use a piece of wood on top so you don't damage the paint. I would do that than use a bigger hammer from underneath. With the boat jacked way up to give you room to swing and a big enough hammer it will have to come out. Watch your thumb!

Matt

CC2MC
09-11-2013, 10:42 AM
How about putting the bottle jack under the pin so all the weight/pressure is on the pin then from the top, hit the top plate of that area a few times. Use a piece of wood on top so you don't damage the paint. I would do that than use a bigger hammer from underneath. With the boat jacked way up to give you room to swing and a big enough hammer it will have to come out. Watch your thumb!

Matt

Interesting idea. I would be a little afraid of damaging the jack though. I may give it a try anyway, although I do not think it will require me to jack it up too high. Really just high enough that all the weight is on the pin. raising it up too high could get a little dangerous.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-11-2013, 10:47 AM
Does anyone know the size socket I will need for the bolt on the tongue? I borrowed a friend's impact wrench. I tried to put one of my socket's on there but it was too small and only goes up to 7/8", so I am guessing it is between 1"-1.25", but I would like to know and just go buy that size socket to make use of the impact. I can get a whole set for about $25 at Harbor Freight, but they do not sell the individual size I need, I don't believe.

How about just measuring the bolt? If you have a Sears store, I believe they sell individual impact sockets. Be sure to us an impact socket as hardened sockets can break under pressure.

pmikler
09-11-2013, 11:17 AM
Does anyone know the size socket I will need for the bolt on the tongue? I borrowed a friend's impact wrench. I tried to put one of my socket's on there but it was too small and only goes up to 7/8", so I am guessing it is between 1"-1.25", but I would like to know and just go buy that size socket to make use of the impact. I can get a whole set for about $25 at Harbor Freight, but they do not sell the individual size I need, I don't believe.

On mine its metric and a 24mm..... 1" was a bit sloppy.

CC2MC
09-11-2013, 11:44 AM
How about just measuring the bolt? If you have a Sears store, I believe they sell individual impact sockets. Be sure to us an impact socket as hardened sockets can break under pressure.

I would measure the bolt if it wasn't an hour and a half away. I would like to get the stuff in hand before I get to the lake this weekend.

Thanks pmikler. Hopefully they didn't change the size in those three years.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-11-2013, 11:47 AM
I would measure the bolt if it wasn't an hour and a half away. I would like to get the stuff in hand before I get to the lake this weekend.

Thanks pmikler. Hopefully they didn't change the size in those three years.

Hard to be accurate with a tape measure at that distance. http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=44555&d=1364467630

JDC
09-11-2013, 11:59 AM
I'm pretty sure you'll need a 15/16" socket. Yours MAY be different so I can't say for sure. Just going by memory. My boat is normally right here in my driveway, but I just took it to storage for the week so I can't even check mine right now.

I'm with Peter... get an impact socket from Sears, although the whole set from Harbour Freight may be the same cost. Usually Sears will let you exchange it if it hasn't been used if you explain you got the wrong size. And with a black impact socket, you'll know if it's been used.

If your bolt is stuck like mine was, be prepared to start cussin' at that 1/2" impact (assuming your friend loaned you a 1/2" drive).

2010Prostar197
09-11-2013, 01:37 PM
If its a Reliable tongue it's 15/16th

CC2MC
09-11-2013, 06:27 PM
Hard to be accurate with a tape measure at that distance. http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=44555&d=1364467630

True. My tape is only 25' so it won't quite reach.

gtbutler
09-11-2013, 08:07 PM
I know you indicated that you didn't want to take a torch to your trailer for fear of damaging the paint. How about going the other way? Getting the bolt/pin as cold as possible will actually make the bolt marginally smaller. If you have a source for a little dry-ice, try getting the dry-ice on the pin/bolt (duct tape it to it, the dry-ice will evaporate and you can get started). Make sure you don't touch the surrounding metal since it will get quite cold and will "attach" your finger to the pin/bolt.
That, along with the impact wrench (or a breaker-bar with a 2 foot pipe and then a 4' crow bar out the other end of the pipe) might be enough. I know that removing Front Wheel drive Axle nuts is a bear, and I have to use the "breaker bar/pipe/crowbar trick" (you HAVE to use a impact socket, you'll break any normal socket putting that much force on it.
Not sure if the "cold trick" will work here. I use it all the time, whenever I'm going to press anything in (Ball joints for upper/lower control arms, etc.) I put those in the freezer the night before, makes the press process much easier. You know, shrinkage...

Good Luck!
Glenn

2010Prostar197
09-11-2013, 10:47 PM
Do you have (original poster) a picture of what your setup is???

CC2MC
09-12-2013, 11:10 AM
This is the best I can do for now, which is really hard to tell anything.

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s461/DoThadoo/Backcornerchips_zps62c0233d.jpg (http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/DoThadoo/media/Backcornerchips_zps62c0233d.jpg.html)

Sodar
09-12-2013, 11:54 AM
Go to Harbor Freight and by a set of sockets in Metric and SAE. They are less than $15 for each set. Go and see what fits best and return what you do not use. Donate the used set to your buddy as a thank you for letting you use his impact gun.

JDC
09-12-2013, 11:58 AM
This is the best I can do for now, which is really hard to tell anything.
Looks like a Reliable actuator to me.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-12-2013, 12:16 PM
Go to Harbor Freight and by a set of sockets in Metric and SAE. They are less than $15 for each set. Go and see what fits best and return what you do not use. Donate the used set to your buddy as a thank you for letting you use his impact gun.

Good answer. :toast:

CC2MC
09-12-2013, 12:55 PM
Sodar, I almost did that the other day, but I didn't see the ones in that price range for the size I need. I do see them online so I may call the store before I go back as it is a little inconvenient going over that way.

Sodar
09-12-2013, 12:58 PM
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-12-in-drive-sae-impact-socket-set-67917-7807.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-12-in-drive-metric-impact-socket-set-67899.html

CC2MC
09-12-2013, 05:52 PM
Nice. Thanks Sodar!

CC2MC
09-15-2013, 11:04 PM
Just an update. I got the impact sockets and the correct size was 15/16". The 1/2" drive did not even touch the bolt. It didn't move at all. I will try a breaker bar next week to see if I can get it to budge.

2010Prostar197
09-16-2013, 12:14 AM
I'm not sure if drilling a couple relief holes in the outer part so you can inject some PB Blaster is a good idea structurally but some how you need to get some penetrating oil in there to loosen things up

I just did the Reliable to UFP retrofit and I made sure to put some highly water resistant marine wheel bearing grease inside the sleeve and on the bolt

It's a near zero tolerance on mine and I could see how some rust could make things difficult but you would think a half inch impact wrench would budge it a little

I wonder if a propane torch would help or have you already tried that?? Sure hate to mess the paint up though!

CC2MC
09-16-2013, 11:11 AM
Torch is my last resort option, but it looks like I am nearly there. I may try taking it in to a tire shop to see if they could at least pop the bolt loose. If I do that, then maybe by folding the tongue on the pin, it will help to break it loose.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-16-2013, 11:19 AM
I would try taking it somewhere they have a larger impact. The tire shop might not have much larger than yours. A truck shop will.

JDC
09-16-2013, 11:37 AM
Torch is my last resort option, but it looks like I am nearly there. I may try taking it in to a tire shop to see if they could at least pop the bolt loose. If I do that, then maybe by folding the tongue on the pin, it will help to break it loose.A car tire shop may not have anything more than the normal 1/2" impact to use. A truck tire shop on the other hand should have a 3/4" or 1" to use. (Oops... Peter beat me to that) :)
Mine needed the 1" impact, and I really thought the bolt was going to break.

I almost broke the flex head portion of my breaker bar when I tried it, so watch that part if you plan on using a pipe on the end of your bar.

Below is a photo of the sleeve (same on both sides) that you need to get that PB Blaster in. On mine, I found once we got the bolt out, that the fluid was mostly going down the outside of the sleeve. The bolt and the hole were only slightly wet at the top 1/2" or so.

If you use a torch, you'll have to get it pretty hot to get the heat through the outside and past the sleeve.

101193

Good luck! :toast:

CC2MC
09-16-2013, 12:00 PM
I assume that the bolt is only threaded on the bottom side where the nut screws on. Am I correct in thinking this?

crank
09-16-2013, 12:37 PM
Before you reach for the torch, I would consider cutting the top off and hammer downwards or drill it almost to the size and tear it out or hammer it thru, seems a shame to damage the paint.
Thoughts?
Regards

thatsmrmastercraft
09-16-2013, 12:39 PM
Before you reach for the torch, I would consider cutting the top off and hammer downwards or drill it almost to the size and tear it out or hammer it thru, seems a shame to damage the paint.
Thoughts?
Regards

That is exactly what I was thinking.

JDC
09-16-2013, 02:59 PM
I assume that the bolt is only threaded on the bottom side where the nut screws on. Am I correct in thinking this?Correct.

CC2MC
09-16-2013, 03:35 PM
Before you reach for the torch, I would consider cutting the top off and hammer downwards or drill it almost to the size and tear it out or hammer it thru, seems a shame to damage the paint.
Thoughts?
Regards

I am not sure if I can get under the head enough to cut it off, at least without damaging the paint. It would have to be some precision grinding.

JDC
09-16-2013, 04:12 PM
I am not sure if I can get under the head enough to cut it off, at least without damaging the paint. It would have to be some precision grinding.If it comes to that... cut through the head and just get as close as you can. 1/16 should be doable. Air tools or a sawzall will make it quick. Shield the paint with on old licence plate or other scrap sheet. After that, driving down on the bolt center with an air hammer will take care of the rest.

I'll still put my $ on the 1" impact.
If it breaks the head off, you won't have to bother with cutting it off. :)

CC2MC
09-16-2013, 06:17 PM
I'll still put my $ on the 1" impact.
If it breaks the head off, you won't have to bother with cutting it off. :)

Ha. True. Hopefully it will just pop loose instead of popping off.

2010Prostar197
09-16-2013, 07:26 PM
That grade 8 bolt might chew up some saw blades....

JDC
09-16-2013, 09:18 PM
That grade 8 bolt might chew up some saw blades....Mine wasn't a grade 8. Not sure if had been replaced or not, but it was old like the rest of it. I did go back together with a grade 8. Probably overkill though. :cool:

CC2MC, do you happen to have a photo of the top of your bolt?

CC2MC
09-17-2013, 12:11 AM
I meant to take a quick photo, but was in a hurry to watch a football game and forgot. I will get one this weekend though.

CC2MC
09-30-2013, 10:43 AM
Here is a quick photo. I have a few more if anyone wants to see another angle. I tried my 1/2" ratchet with a 2' breaker bar and flexed the ratchet but didn't budge the bolt. I did not have much time to mess with it and probably won't until this winter. I want to try heat before I trailer it somewhere. The pic on bottom is showing the ring that I popped loose. I tried to straightened it back as good as I could, so it doesn't look as bad.

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s461/DoThadoo/2013-09-28180057_zps88b33cc2.jpg (http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/DoThadoo/media/2013-09-28180057_zps88b33cc2.jpg.html)

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s461/DoThadoo/2013-09-28180144_zpsdb82cf02.jpg (http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/DoThadoo/media/2013-09-28180144_zpsdb82cf02.jpg.html)

2010Prostar197
09-30-2013, 12:21 PM
So is it both the bolt and the pull pin that won't budge???

Sodar
09-30-2013, 12:34 PM
Pop the ring off the pin. Weld a nut to the pin and take a big impact gun to get the pin moving. Once it is out, replace the pin. Heat would be my last option.

2010Prostar197
09-30-2013, 12:49 PM
I saw one (bolt only though) that the guy drilled two small holes through to the bolt 1/3 and 2/3 from the top so PB Blaster could be sprayed in

Not sure how else to get lubricant in there....

CC2MC
09-30-2013, 01:02 PM
Both pin and bolt are stuck. I figure if I can get one unstuck then hopefully the other will follow once I fold the tongue back. Sodar, that is an interesting suggestion. Wish I had a buddy with a welder close by.

Drilling is also a logical suggestion although I would rather not if I don't have to. I love all the suggestions and will try everything I can. Unfortunately getting to the lake for the rest of the year will be a challenge as my wife just told me last night that she is done with the lake for the year. I will see what I can do the next time I get down there and let you know what works. Again thanks for the suggestions.