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View Full Version : 1994 MC Prostar 205 LURCHING/SURGING


Zad
08-18-2013, 03:27 PM
Hello,
I am two weeks into ownership of a '94 205 with the 350 chev and the engine has troubles. It will drive fine with good power, steady speed and normal function. Then it will start to lurch/surge, usually after hitting it to go from zero. It sounds as if the engine is starving for fuel as it will cut power, then surge, cut, surge. In most cases it will stall right out after several surges and stalls. After one, two or three of these it will pop, sputter and then run fine for a period of time and then start all over again. It has plenty of fuel. I have not added fuel conditioner yet. Do these boats have fuel filters? Do fuel pumps on the way out behave this way? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Rockman
08-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Yes, you should have at least one fuel filter. It should be on the back side of the motor.

You may also have one above the fuel tank if installed by the previous owner.

It sounds as if either you have a clogged filter or your fuel pump needs to be replaced.

Check the filter(s) first and then the pump secondly...might be a cheap fix.

Zad
08-18-2013, 03:42 PM
Will do Rockman. Are the fuel pumps on these standard to the chevy 350 or specialized for marine use?

Rockman
08-18-2013, 03:51 PM
I am not 100% sure...I know a number of people have got them at Rock Auto and Napa so I believe they are non-marine.

Someone else can verify though. Sorry!

sp00ky
08-18-2013, 04:30 PM
Yes skidim sells a marine one for 300+ the rock auto one under a bill. Also check plugs and distributor. Seafoam of throttle body works wonders on top end and fuel consumption.

Double D
08-18-2013, 04:57 PM
Before you buy anything run it with the flame arrester off and watch your injectors. If one is sputtering when the surge happens then I might be able to help.

I went through a similar problem and mine was the computer and the driver powering the injectors. Either search for posts by me to find it or I will post the link when I get home.


Sent from Never Neverland using my iPhone 4 on Tapatalk

Double D
08-18-2013, 05:16 PM
Here it is:

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=36482

Not saying its the same thing but maybe my experience (documented in this thread) can help...

Zad
08-18-2013, 06:08 PM
Hey Double D,
From your thread it seems your main problem was at idle. Is that so? While my engine does occasionally idle erratically (pulses very slightly) the main issue is the engine actually cutting out and re-engaging. It pulls hard then stops, pulls then stops and after a few seconds to minutes of this it usually runs fine again. Does this sound familiar?

Double D
08-18-2013, 06:16 PM
Hey Double D,
From your thread it seems your main problem was at idle. Is that so? While my engine does occasionally idle erratically (pulses very slightly) the main issue is the engine actually cutting out and re-engaging. It pulls hard then stops, pulls then stops and after a few seconds to minutes of this it usually runs fine again. Does this sound familiar?

Oops, I might have missed about it being under power. When mine did it it was mostly during idle, but when I was running the perfect pass on wakeboard runs it would do it then too so when my son made a cut the boat couldn't keep up.

Zad
08-19-2013, 10:46 PM
Tonight I replaced the bilge pump, took off, cleaned and resealed the bulkhead that separates the ski locker from the engine bay and removed the fuel filter to see if it was plugged. I am able to easily blow through the fuel filter so I doubt that it is the cause of the engine cutting out. If this were the fuel pump wouldn't the engine be bogging down instead of cutting dead and then refiring, cutting dead and refiring? Somehow, even given my lack of mechanical experience, this feels more electrical in nature than mechanical given the sudden and complete cutoff of power and the sudden refiring. If I am off base, please set me straight.

mikeg205
08-19-2013, 10:54 PM
Don't forget to check the screen at the base of the fuel pump. I add an inline fuel filter before the pump. I checked mine one winter and it was full of crud and mud. IT could also be a failing ignition module... make sure all connections are clean as well as inside your distributor cap.

Zad
08-19-2013, 11:16 PM
Hey Mikeg205,
I have read about the filter at the base of the fuel pump however when I look at the fuel pump on the port/stern side of the engine I can't see how I would open it up to find a filter...looks like the pump housing is solid. What am I missing?

mikeg205
08-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Hey Mikeg205,
I have read about the filter at the base of the fuel pump however when I look at the fuel pump on the port/stern side of the engine I can't see how I would open it up to find a filter...looks like the pump housing is solid. What am I missing?

Remove the pump - it's at the bottom of the pump. The larger of the 2 holes house the screen in the fitting...

Zad
08-20-2013, 04:42 PM
Just got a tip to change out the fuel/water separator...hadn't thought of that and will do today after work too.

mikeg205
08-20-2013, 04:43 PM
Just got a tip to change out the fuel/water separator...hadn't thought of that and will do today after work too.

well ya didn't say ya had one of them... not stock on many boats here.. ;)

Zad
08-20-2013, 04:54 PM
Sadly, didn't even know I did until I was prowling around in there last night. Ahhh, the rough ride of new-to-me boat ownership.

mikeg205
08-20-2013, 05:53 PM
Sadly, didn't even know I did until I was prowling around in there last night. Ahhh, the rough ride of new-to-me boat ownership.

Good to learn all da stuff... good excuse to get into garage ;)

Zad
08-20-2013, 11:14 PM
Ok, second day of tying into this issue. Today I replaced the fuel/water separator filter, checked the filter at the base of the fuel pump, checked the entire engine for loose wires - and found one that was almost completely separated from the connector...thought I had found the holy grail. Also replaced all the blower hose which was a mangled mess and only serving to move the engine gases as far as the drive shaft.

Took the boat out to the lake and it still does the same thing.

What I learned: it takes some time for the cutting out to occur, does not happen cold, only when the engine is hot. Driving without the engine cover also allowed me to see that the exhaust manifold gasket is leaking like a sieve at higher rpm...I guess as the water pressure builds to cool the engine it pushes through the gasket (doesn't happen at all at lower speeds or warm up). The gasket that is leaking is NOT the one at the block but the one between the part that attaches to the block and the part that connects to the exhaust tubing (what are the names of these parts?). Both sides, exact same leak. Checked all the hose clamps and most were loose including the exhaust tubing loose enough to leak also.

Is it possible that the water leaking out of the exhaust manifold is dripping down on the wiring (I believe the ecm is on the starboard side of the motor and gets pretty wet from all the water leaking) and causing a short? I tried protecting the wires with a bunch of shop towels but the cutting out still occurred.

Next step: I am going to take a video camera out to the lake after work tomorrow and post a video of what this engine is doing on you tube to see if this helps any of you give some advice.

Double D
08-20-2013, 11:25 PM
Ok, second day of tying into this issue. Today I replaced the fuel/water separator filter, checked the filter at the base of the fuel pump, checked the entire engine for loose wires - and found one that was almost completely separated from the connector...thought I had found the holy grail. Also replaced all the blower hose which was a mangled mess and only serving to move the engine gases as far as the drive shaft.

Took the boat out to the lake and it still does the same thing.

What I learned: it takes some time for the cutting out to occur, does not happen cold, only when the engine is hot. Driving without the engine cover also allowed me to see that the exhaust manifold gasket is leaking like a sieve at higher rpm...I guess as the water pressure builds to cool the engine it pushes through the gasket (doesn't happen at all at lower speeds or warm up). The gasket that is leaking is NOT the one at the block but the one between the part that attaches to the block and the part that connects to the exhaust tubing (what are the names of these parts?). Both sides, exact same leak. Checked all the hose clamps and most were loose including the exhaust tubing loose enough to leak also.

Is it possible that the water leaking out of the exhaust manifold is dripping down on the wiring (I believe the ecm is on the starboard side of the motor and gets pretty wet from all the water leaking) and causing a short? I tried protecting the wires with a bunch of shop towels but the cutting out still occurred.

Next step: I am going to take a video camera out to the lake after work tomorrow and post a video of what this engine is doing on you tube to see if this helps any of you give some advice.

Did you take off the flame arrestor and watch the injectors when it was happening??

Zad
08-20-2013, 11:39 PM
No I did not. I have read other posts about guys doing this but I don't know what to do. Just learned what the spark arrestor is (thought it was the air filter). Now, when I remove it to look at the injectors what am I looking for?

Zad
08-20-2013, 11:48 PM
Also, I would like to be able to trouble shoot this in my driveway. How do I hook up a garden hose to my engine so I can run it on the trailer? My boat has a shower with garden hose fittings for the shower hoses in the engine compartment. Can I attach to one of these? If so, which one?

And hey, thanks for helping out the newbie.

Double D
08-20-2013, 11:55 PM
No I did not. I have read other posts about guys doing this but I don't know what to do. If you have time would you walk me through it or point me in the right direction to find out how and what I am looking for?

I will try to put together a few pictures tomorrow to help..

I didn't have a lot of luck making it happen in the driveway.

mikeg205
08-21-2013, 09:23 AM
Also, I would like to be able to trouble shoot this in my driveway. How do I hook up a garden hose to my engine so I can run it on the trailer? My boat has a shower with garden hose fittings for the shower hoses in the engine compartment. Can I attach to one of these? If so, which one?

And hey, thanks for helping out the newbie.

Make one of these.. hose okay if just idle.. but you'll be amazed how fast the bucket drains when you up the RPM's. attach raw water hose that connects to trans cooler to fitting on bucket or get some 1.25 ID hose from hardware store.

Also - pull the trans button on controller to not engage transmission. If you want to get higher rpm's you'll need to have water running to the cutlass bearing in the drive shaft strut.

Regarding injectors - there are 2. they should have a nice alternating spray in to TBI housing and then alternating fasting IIRC. When I had a heat soak issue - (too hot a t-stat) - the spray dwindled to a trickle until engine cooled.

Zad
08-21-2013, 11:15 PM
Grrrr...just returned from the lake and it seems the issue is worsening. I removed the flame arrestor and when the engine cuts out, the injectors do too. Clearly, there is some fuel supply issue whether mechanical or electrical. I took some video and will post a link to the video tomorrow. My local boat shop can't get the boat in for a couple weeks so I am considering seeing if I can find a GM mechanic to put a tech tool on it and see if we can figure it out from there.

Double D
08-22-2013, 05:43 AM
Grrrr...just returned from the lake and it seems the issue is worsening. I removed the flame arrestor and when the engine cuts out, the injectors do too. Clearly, there is some fuel supply issue whether mechanical or electrical. I took some video and will post a link to the video tomorrow. My local boat shop can't get the boat in for a couple weeks so I am considering seeing if I can find a GM mechanic to put a tech tool on it and see if we can figure it out from there.

I guess the video will show, but both injectors are doing it? Mine was just one and I could switch the wires to prove it wasn't injectors. I'm not ruling out the fuel pump but this could be the ECM / Computer.

mikeg205
08-22-2013, 07:22 AM
Would like to see the injectors fire on the prime.... before engaging starter.

johnnye23
08-22-2013, 12:53 PM
If I were in your shoes I would replace the fuel-pump. If it does not solve the problem ( I think it may well ) you will have a known good spare part that when it fails will leave you stranded. I would suggest installing a fuel pressure gauge but on a boat I wouldn't feel as comfortable as with an automotive application. Good luck sorting it out I know how frustrating it is getting a new boat and having trouble right off the bat.:(



BTW where are you located maybe I can lend a hand if your close

Zad
08-22-2013, 01:00 PM
Hey Johnnye,
Thanks a bunch for the offer, I am up in BC, Canada. I might just go ahead and do the pump replacement as you suggest. As it is, my local boat shop can't get me in until September so it may be worthwhile to risk the replacement.

Ski-me
08-22-2013, 02:02 PM
Hey Johnnye,
Thanks a bunch for the offer, I am up in BC, Canada. I might just go ahead and do the pump replacement as you suggest. As it is, my local boat shop can't get me in until September so it may be worthwhile to risk the replacement.

Just a shot but is anyone near you that could "lend" you a pump to try out? Kind of a far out shot in the dark but maybe someone could help. Heck, I could send you up my old, extra pump from my LT1 but don't know if they are the same or not. :confused:

StrmChzr
08-22-2013, 08:15 PM
I dealt with engine surging in my 05XStar w/ 8.1L earlier this season.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=54978&highlight=Engine+surging

I can only speak for my boat's surging issues and not familiar with yours, but watch my vid and if its same surging issue- i have good news. My fix only costs a few bucks, but it took me almost 4 weeks of troubleshooting. Truthfully, it was the owner of Ski-N-Sports, Dave Williams, at TRL who diagnosed problem and had the fix.

I don't want to waste anymore of your time if we're not talking apples to apples with surging issue. FWIW - TT is full of great folks who enjoy boating, and love their MC's, but I'd be wary of "throwing money" at an idea someone (myself) said on Internet who has no working knowledge of marine motors. If you want to know if the fuel pumps is culprit, check its compression at key up, engine turning on, and then while throttling up. If your compression isn't good or varies - you will have your smoking gun and didn't waste time and $ with the "dartboard" approach.


Good luck - I know your frustration!!!

Zad
08-23-2013, 01:06 AM
I am having trouble loading the video onto our computer. My wife is much more savvy with this stuff so I will ask her to help tomorrow. I decided to go ahead and get a fuel pump and try that. I do realize I may be wasting some $$ but I thought the risk worth it on the chance that I might get to ski this weekend. Being that the symptoms are quickly getting much worse, it makes sense that it is the pump and not the ecm, although both (and I am sure other things) are possible. Will update as soon as I have something new.

mikeg205
08-23-2013, 08:57 AM
You can get fuel pump at rock auto.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php

search P60987

sp00ky
08-23-2013, 09:26 AM
I am having trouble loading the video onto our computer. My wife is much more savvy with this stuff so I will ask her to help tomorrow. I decided to go ahead and get a fuel pump and try that. I do realize I may be wasting some $$ but I thought the risk worth it on the chance that I might get to ski this weekend. Being that the symptoms are quickly getting much worse, it makes sense that it is the pump and not the ecm, although both (and I am sure other things) are possible. Will update as soon as I have something new.

How about the fuel injector relays? Have you tried cleaning them or at least banging them a little then connecting them again?

Ski-me
08-23-2013, 09:38 AM
You can get fuel pump at rock auto.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php

search P60987

Dang! $84 is a deal! :cool:

Zad
08-24-2013, 12:17 AM
hey spooky, where are the fuel injector relays?

kraig1995
08-26-2013, 01:11 PM
Fuel pump at $84.00!!! I'm buying 2.

sp00ky
08-26-2013, 01:21 PM
hey spooky, where are the fuel injector relays?

I will try to take pics but mine are on the RIGHT side when facing front.

sp00ky
08-26-2013, 01:26 PM
hey spooky, where are the fuel injector relays?

check out this thread

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=53509&highlight=fuel+injector+relays

Zad
08-27-2013, 12:08 AM
Still working on the '94 PS205, just waiting for the riser bolts to come in so I can put in the new riser gaskets. Thanks for the link to the rock auto fuel pump, they want $475 up here for it. I am not sure if I should just install the rock auto fuel pump (any part number on this, the link doesn't show an actual fuel pump) or take it to a shop. I have lots of time now as I plan to fix the 94 over the winter and sell in the spring...I just bought an '02 xstar with 190 hours for 27K, hull and running gear is mint, tower with speakers, perfect pass, interior is 8/10 (couple burn marks) and the carpet needs a good cleaning and I am sure it will look great, front and rear tower lights, extra amp, tandem trailer that is also in excellent condition. Previous owner put in two 750 fat sacks in the rear lockers. Here are some photos, personally, I like the no graphics look. Thanks for all your input on this thread.

Ski-me
08-27-2013, 09:51 AM
Wow Zad, sweet score! That looks to be in awesome shape! Nice and tasteful without all the tribal logo junk.

mikeg205
08-27-2013, 10:24 AM
Fuel pump at $84.00!!! I'm buying 2.

make sure you test - the first one I got did not work... only a 30 day warranty.

Zad
08-27-2013, 10:38 AM
Do you have a part number or link to the actual part, tried searching rock auto and only got newer fuel pumps.

mikeg205
08-27-2013, 11:46 AM
Do you have a part number or link to the actual part, tried searching rock auto and only got newer fuel pumps.

search for P60987

Zad
08-27-2013, 06:16 PM
Thanks, got it.

Zad
09-01-2013, 04:01 PM
Remove the pump - it's at the bottom of the pump. The larger of the 2 holes house the screen in the fitting...

Just replaced the new pump and now missing the small o-ring that seals the gas line to the pump on the top end of the pump (the end with only one port on the pump). Anyone have that part number or should I just go through the dealership?

Zad
09-03-2013, 11:16 PM
If I were in your shoes I would replace the fuel-pump. If it does not solve the problem ( I think it may well ) you will have a known good spare part that when it fails will leave you stranded. I would suggest installing a fuel pressure gauge but on a boat I wouldn't feel as comfortable as with an automotive application. Good luck sorting it out I know how frustrating it is getting a new boat and having trouble right off the bat.:(



BTW where are you located maybe I can lend a hand if your close

Problem finally solved. It was the fuel pump after all, you were right Johnnye23. It took some tweaking to get the new pump to work. I delayed installing it for several days as I thought I had lost the o-ring that seals the top end of the pump to the fuel line. Turns out there is no o-ring in that joint at all, just a flare on the fuel line and metal to metal seal with the pump. So, I installed the new pump at lunch today and it leaked at that very joint where I thought I had lost the o-ring. So I took the female end off the old fuel pump and put it on the new pump and voila, no fuel leak at all (there is an o-ring between the female union on the pump and the pump housing but not between the female union on the pump and the fuel line). Took the boat out to the lake after work today and found perfectly flat water and not one other boat on the lake. My buddy and I ripped it up and had no troubles at all. Very happy. Now I am going to fix this baby up and sell it in the spring if repairing my 02 xstar doesn't break my bank account. Thanks for all the posts and help, good to know you all are out there.

mikeg205
09-03-2013, 11:23 PM
Problem finally solved. It was the fuel pump after all, you were right Johnnye23. It took some tweaking to get the new pump to work. I delayed installing it for several days as I thought I had lost the o-ring that seals the top end of the pump to the fuel line. Turns out there is no o-ring in that joint at all, just a flare on the fuel line and metal to metal seal with the pump. So, I installed the new pump at lunch today and it leaked at that very joint where I thought I had lost the o-ring. So I took the female end off the old fuel pump and put it on the new pump and voila, no fuel leak at all (there is an o-ring between the female union on the pump and the pump housing but not between the female union on the pump and the fuel line). Took the boat out to the lake after work today and found perfectly flat water and not one other boat on the lake. My buddy and I ripped it up and had no troubles at all. Very happy. Now I am going to fix this baby up and sell it in the spring if repairing my 02 xstar doesn't break my bank account. Thanks for all the posts and help, good to know you all are out there.

Awesome report - thanks for letting us know!!! When you get a chance put a fuel filter in front of the fuel pump - a number of us have done that... Napa 3003. $2.50 plus a couple hose clamps - or have your hose fitted to take a napa 23481.

Zad
09-04-2013, 11:40 PM
Will look into fuel pump pre filter