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Redstorm
08-18-2013, 12:29 PM
I have seen quite often on this forum, MC owners wish their boat was analog as well as computerized.

What is your preference?

Analog, Computorized or both. And why.

My thoughts are, there should be both in the event the computer fails you can override the system so your weekend/ vacation is not a complete bust.

Jerseydave
08-18-2013, 12:50 PM
Love my analog gauges.

Only changes I would make would be GPS Perfectpass and a volume knob on the stereo remote instead of the up/down arrows. Of course I could always add on a Wetsounds controller for that.

Traxx822
08-18-2013, 01:12 PM
Love my analog gauges.

Only changes I would make would be GPS Perfectpass and a volume knob on the stereo remote instead of the up/down arrows. Of course I could always add on a Wetsounds controller for that.

Stargazer PP - Check
Wetsounds 420sq - Check
Analog gauges - Check

That's the perfect set up for me.

I like dials, I like buttons too. But some places I want dials, some places I want buttons.

501s
08-18-2013, 03:06 PM
If you asked my last year I'd answer differently but I personally love the new touchscreen system in my 2013. I don't think I've looked at the analog gauges once for actually information, except maybe the RPMS on the odd occasion.

The new Murphy system works very well. And if you look at automobiles, they are ALL computerized these days, so why wouldn't boats follow.

CC2MC
08-18-2013, 03:55 PM
I have always been a gadget man, but I think the analog does have it's place. The digital PP is about as far to digital as I have gone, and I like it bc it can tell you different types of information. The newer screens control everything including speed, radio, and ballast. I think that they should offer both versions, with the Digital as an option and analog Standard. This may not help with inventory, but it may knock $5-10k off the initial price I would guess. Then if you are planning on spending that much on a boat, maybe the extra $100-200 a month is no big deal to you. I am good for now with the PP digital multiline display and analog tach.

501s
08-18-2013, 04:05 PM
I think as the price of things like screens come down, it will be more economical to use these screens in the boats. I mean how much can a 7" touch screen actually COST mastercraft? I would guess not a whole lot, and the world is only going to more touchscreens not less so prices will only come down in time.

One nice thing I love about the new system, is if you need to balance the wake a little, you can hit the up arrow on one tank and the down arrow on the other tank, and each will fill and drain %10 respectively. No more turning on the manual ballast switch to drain or fill one side to find you forgot about it for 5 minutes and the wake is no longer even (done this on my past boats without this feature). Ya, it's minor but I sure like this feature.

JMLVMI
08-18-2013, 04:20 PM
As someone who can't afford even a remotely new boat, digital worries me (as it does in cars). Both the hardware and software evolve so quickly that I worry about manufacturers supporting the older touchscreens as the years go on. If the touchscreen goes in a 2014 ProStar, how do you know your speed, ZO, etc. settings? You're cooked.

Glad that the bad guys (CC) still offer analog gauges even today with the SN200, and hope that MC will do the same.

Redstorm
08-18-2013, 06:54 PM
I think as the price of things like screens come down, it will be more economical to use these screens in the boats. I mean how much can a 7" touch screen actually COST mastercraft? I would guess not a whole lot, and the world is only going to more touchscreens not less so prices will only come down in time.

One nice thing I love about the new system, is if you need to balance the wake a little, you can hit the up arrow on one tank and the down arrow on the other tank, and each will fill and drain %10 respectively. No more turning on the manual ballast switch to drain or fill one side to find you forgot about it for 5 minutes and the wake is no longer even (done this on my past boats without this feature). Ya, it's minor but I sure like this feature.

Makes sense. Is there a system that you set as, say... rider#1 and it dials in the boat (sets speed and prefered ballast etc.) with 1 touch of the screen?

I do prefer the the look of analog gauges. Just looks very clean and classy, MHO. Analog with the convenience of the computer. I think analog will always hang around. I am sure as time passes they will be comming out with some pretty nice looking computerized systems as the techno world evolves.

Redstorm
08-18-2013, 07:40 PM
As someone who can't afford even a remotely new boat, digital worries me (as it does in cars). Both the hardware and software evolve so quickly that I worry about manufacturers supporting the older touchscreens as the years go on. If the touchscreen goes in a 2014 ProStar, how do you know your speed, ZO, etc. settings? You're cooked.

Glad that the bad guys (CC) still offer analog gauges even today with the SN200, and hope that MC will do the same.

My pito's were clogged over the weekend for both analog speedo's. I was able to use the tach. And able to unclog both pito's at lunch. Your reason is why I feel the boat should have analog and manual override so when it does go down your not dead in the water.

Also, as you say, the computers will be obsolete before the boat itself. IMO.

bamabonners
08-18-2013, 07:48 PM
I love the 2013 Murphy system and guages. I think it is the perfect mix of tech and analog.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
08-18-2013, 10:09 PM
You guys wanting analog gauges do realize it's still a digital signal from the ecm via mmdc or what ever CAN BUSS system is used then reports that information to a tattle tale gauge. Still all the same sensors, wires, ecm's etc. only thing different is the user interface (gauge or flat screen). You want real analog gauges go back to before the early 90's in the mastercraft world before EFI and ECM's. But I guess if a round gauge in the dash makes you sleep better....

mikeg205
08-18-2013, 10:14 PM
Interesting thread - this topic pops up over and over. James has the right direction. I like digital but I hope replacement parts will be available for us who own 10+ year old boats - in the future. i.e. will you be able to start the boat if the display goes... As technology gets cheaper - will there be a plug in replacement down the road that does not cost $5K.

Redstorm
08-18-2013, 10:57 PM
You guys wanting analog gauges do realize it's still a digital signal from the ecm via mmdc or what ever CAN BUSS system is used then reports that information to a tattle tale gauge. Still all the same sensors, wires, ecm's etc. only thing different is the user interface (gauge or flat screen). You want real analog gauges go back to before the early 90's in the mastercraft world before EFI and ECM's. But I guess if a round gauge in the dash makes you sleep better....


It is true about the ECM, however It's the operating system and updates that I see going waist side, possibly. Newer cars are equipped with state of the art computers with Internet and even iPad equivalent. Manufactures are moving forward so fast the old is being left behind. People hold onto boats longer than cars IMHO. So 10 to 15 yrs later are the updates or parts going to be available. Hope so!

The computers are made specifily for MC. ECM's are mass produced for all GM motors. I can't even get a replacement glove box for my 2001.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
08-18-2013, 11:53 PM
It is true about the ECM, however It's the operating system and updates that I see going waist side, possibly. Newer cars are equipped with state of the art computers with Internet and even iPad equivalent. Manufactures are moving forward so fast the old is being left behind. People hold onto boats longer than cars IMHO. So 10 to 15 yrs later are the updates or parts going to be available. Hope so!

The computers are made specifily for MC. ECM's are mass produced for all GM motors. I can't even get a replacement glove box for my 2001.

IIRC Auto Manufacturers are required to maintain parts up to 10 years of initial production run. But has to do with potential warranty concerns. I don't know how it will affect future touch screen problems on a 15 yr old 2014 xstar, I don't know if marine manufacturers have to follow the same rules.

mikeg205
08-19-2013, 08:54 AM
By law parts have to be available for most other products for 7 years after last production date IIRC.

CruisinGA
08-19-2013, 09:01 AM
I wouldn't worry so much about the law, it's all about the market and whether someone can make a buck selling replacement parts...

JMLVMI
08-19-2013, 09:03 AM
By law parts have to be available for most other products for 7 years after last production date IIRC.

Seems like MC does this with interiors (I think you can get interior panels back to '06 right now), but obviously this is before they had full digital systems so it remains to be seen what will happen there.

I wish they would sell the tooling for parts for older boats like car manufacturers do; there's got to be room in the market for at least one classic boat parts warehouse operation :rolleyes:

mikeg205
08-19-2013, 09:07 AM
I wouldn't worry so much about the law, it's all about the market and whether someone can make a buck selling replacement parts...

Can't sell something that's not manufactured...i.e. Carter P60987 and P60962 fuel pump...

JMLVMI
08-19-2013, 09:19 AM
Can't sell something that's not manufactured...i.e. Carter P60987 and P60962 fuel pump...

Why I always run my boat with a full tank of gas and sacrifice wake size :D

Traxx822
08-19-2013, 09:43 AM
You guys wanting analog gauges do realize it's still a digital signal from the ecm via mmdc or what ever CAN BUSS system is used then reports that information to a tattle tale gauge. Still all the same sensors, wires, ecm's etc. only thing different is the user interface (gauge or flat screen). You want real analog gauges go back to before the early 90's in the mastercraft world before EFI and ECM's. But I guess if a round gauge in the dash makes you sleep better....

Hey JM. I hear what you are saying. But I have to disagree. An analog gauge is not the same as a digital gauge just because it uses the same road to transmit information. I'm not saying you said that, but the OP asked what is your preference. Analog or digital? Which are two completely different systems. Digital and touchscreen systems & gauges have software information that analog does not.

ANALOG GAUGE - A display device utilizing a varying current to cause a mechanical change in the position of its needle.

The only thing I don't agree with is not calling these type gauges "real" analog.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

FourFourty
08-19-2013, 10:09 AM
Hey JM. I hear what you are saying. But I have to disagree. An analog gauge is not the same as a digital gauge just because it uses the same road to transmit information. I'm not saying you said that, but the OP asked what is your preference. Analog or digital? Which are two completely different systems. Digital and touchscreen systems & gauges have software information that analog does not.

ANALOG GAUGE - A display device utilizing a varying current to cause a mechanical change in the position of its needle.

The only thing I don't agree with is not calling these type gauges "real" analog.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

You are on the right track..... All of the gauges were still analog except the tachometer (which has never been an analog signal)..... Fuel level, engine temp, ballast levels, oil pressure, etc., were all still analog until the last few years.

bsloop
08-19-2013, 11:20 AM
More electronics = more problems in the harsh marine environment.

I like my simple carbs and wires. A newer MPI engine would be nice but like others have stated, the more integrated things become; there is a trade off between short term convenience and long term reliability.

MasterCraft or any mfg has in interest in planned obsolescence so long as it does not significantly affect their long term brand.
Given their custom specs with low volume production relative to the auto industry, I have a hard time trusting the current touch screens will be available 15 years from now.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
08-19-2013, 11:31 AM
Hey JM. I hear what you are saying. But I have to disagree. An analog gauge is not the same as a digital gauge just because it uses the same road to transmit information. I'm not saying you said that, but the OP asked what is your preference. Analog or digital? Which are two completely different systems. Digital and touchscreen systems & gauges have software information that analog does not.

ANALOG GAUGE - A display device utilizing a varying current to cause a mechanical change in the position of its needle.

The only thing I don't agree with is not calling these type gauges "real" analog.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Right, I guess what I was trying to say is if you didn't want any digital influence on the operation of your watercraft then it's necessary to go back to before the use of EFI and ECM's, the early 90's. Since EFI most gauges have been controlled by a Multiple Module Data Computer -MMDC- which takes a digital ECM signal and converts it to an analog signal for display on the typical analog gauge. I wonder how many MMDC and analog gauges in mastercraft boats have failed over the years...

My preference is for analog gauges for the sportier look versus looking at a screen, not from a reliability standpoint.

bjames
08-19-2013, 12:14 PM
Interesting thread... All the newer technology (talking about my experiences with a 2012) scare me. I had nothing but problems with the BIG and the tower - enough problems that I decided to downgrade to a 2009. After I had the VDIG replaced (at the start of the season) the boat has been completely trouble free.

The only thing I use the VDIG for is the Perfect Pass, depth and water temp. Everything else I rely on the gauges.

501s
08-19-2013, 12:37 PM
I have a question, what analog gauges are you guys spending all this time looking at anyways?

The only gauges I look at on a boat while actually using it are the speed (PP), temp, wake plate level and the depth gauges which are all digital on most any boat I have used, whether through a large touchscreen or small LCD display. I guess you can spend time looking at the Tach for whatever reason, but other than that I honestly never look at the analog gages. No sense in looking at a Speedo where you can only tell the speed within 1MPH when there is a digital display 6" away of your speed down to the a tenth of a MPH and easier to read.

Redstorm
08-19-2013, 06:30 PM
So what happens when the touchscreen/computer freezes up? Is the boat operable and if so how much? Can u dump ballast if needed, raise or lower the tower? Does it shut the boat down or just the accessories? What I'm also getting at is with all this technology there is quite a bit of room for a busted vacation with no override. A member was unable to override the system to raise his tower while on vacation. If I remember right they had to spend the entire time with the tower in the down position. I believe it was the actuator but it was controlled by the computer and could not override.

So with the computer and analog gauges and override system the boat would still be fully operable. if the computer took a dump then the vacation and or weekend would not be a complete bust.

I have learned one thing here on the forums and find it to be the most important. And I will keep this analog no matter what, and this would be the engine temp gauge. My eyes are on this gauge constantly. If I did not have this, the boat would not go out. that's just me.

501s
08-19-2013, 11:46 PM
Interesting. I never look at the temperature gauge on my boat. In 10 years of boating and a 1000 hours of time on engines I have never had one overheat. It's just something I don't worry about.

I can see your point about the tower, but I have the ZFT4 and it's flawless. The ballast, all lights, and heaters are all controlled from manual buttons.