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View Full Version : wake compare: X25 vs 2005-2012 Xstar


c640947
08-13-2013, 05:22 PM
Ive been researching a new boat with a scheduled test drive of the X46, G23 (and potentially 2013 XStar) this week. For a variety of reasons the X25 fits a lot of my needs but I am thinking these other boats fit it better. However there is a decent price difference of course so I want to determine if I should ditch the star in favor of the 25. Dont have time to test drive 4 boats i dont think.

My question for you X25 owners is how is the wakeboard wake? I would specifically like to know compared to the 2005-2012 Xstar (with 700s in the rears and a pair of those wedge sacs in the nose) as that is my wake target to meet or beat. And the one consideration is that it has to be able to be done with all sub floor ballast. I dont mind plumbing in extra myself, but I want to get away from the sacs on the floor. So I am trying to determine how big the X25 wake is when the standard plug and play is added.

My big concern with the X25 is there is seemingly on way to plumb in sacs in the front. Someone said they put a U sac up there but I looked under the seats and I dont see how.

I know the surf wake on the x25 is good. But do you have to put sacs in the floor for that too or can a surf wake be achieved with only plumbed ballast?

Thanks again and I do plan to report back on my wake experience in the X46 later this week as no one seems to have posted about that anywhere yet.

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

CumberlandXstar
08-13-2013, 06:09 PM
X-25 does have a comparable wake and needs less ballast than a last generation X-Star to get a nice wake, so yes all the ballast can be under the floor.

I like the versatility of the X-25 but think the X-46 will be better in every category except; Price, fuel consumption, and trailering.

bjames
08-13-2013, 07:29 PM
I had a 2001 X25 then a 2012 X25. Now I have a 2009 X Star and couldnt be happier on many fronts.

For wake comparison, size is not the only thing to consider. Personally I prefer the wake on the star over the X25. The Xstar wake with full ballast plus 750lbs in the each rear trunk plus a 750 up front make a huge wake, larger than the X25 with P&P.

Both previous X25s had the 6.0L engine (2011 Indmar and 2012 Ilmor). The Xstar has the Indmar LY96 (6.0L) and kick @ss over the X25 fully loaded. With full ballast I get on plane in half the time and can corner on a dime with out bogging down. When executing 180 degree turns, my wife turns back onto the line she was driving (very tight dogbone turn) in order to miss our own wake - something I coulnt do with the X25 as it requires a larger turn radius and I aslo notice the X25 bogs down in a turn. I assume this may have a lot to do with the hull shape.

For the wake, I personally found the X25 wake too lippy/steep fully loaded, the Stars wake is larger but had a more mellow ramp and landings seem softer for some reason.

Also, I like the fact that the star does not need any form of trim plate to achieve a nice wake and i never porpises like the X25 doesn at WOT.

One important thing to consider is what you want to do with the boat. Both X46, X25 are MUCH larger inside, which for some will be a BIG negative. For me it doesnt matter. Most of the time its just me and my wife and when we are out 95% of the time we are wakeboarding. We dont cruise much. We head out do as many sets before it gets busy, then find a spot and rest/snack, then go out for more sets, the load up.

So if space is important, and surfing, then I would not recommend a Gen 2 star. for the 2013 Stars I can comment as I have not been in one.

Iskidaily
08-13-2013, 07:35 PM
I have had the pleasure of riding in and on both as well as the G23. My advice is to ride them all and make up your own mind. If you have advanced to expert wakeboarders, all three are terrific boats. Have fun trying them out!

dlamont
08-13-2013, 07:51 PM
without additional ballast I would take the X25 but if you are going to put extra ballast in, it's a tougher choice. You can get a good surf wake out of the X25 with stock ballast and 4-5 people in the boat. I personally think the X25 is still the best boat in the line but that's just my two cents.

c640947
08-14-2013, 11:01 AM
I am scheduled to demo the boats tomorrow but I was hoping to slim down my choices so I dont spend 8 hours demoing you know? Thanks for all of the advice guys.

bjames i am looking for a larger boat as I have kids and they like to swim etc. But the X25 is very roomy inside i think so between that, the flip up rear seats, etc combine with good wakes it is hard to ignore that choice.

turbofresh
08-14-2013, 11:18 AM
the x-25 wakeboards amazing, surfs awesome, its storage is excellent, and its extremely roomy. i never really paid attention to the transom seats but now that we got em, they are constantly used.

we hardly surfed in past boats but now that we got a sick wave we are constantly surfing when the waters to rough to wakeboaard.

wakeboarding wake is what really impresses me on the x-25 though. i have people who want to ride tanks empty cause the wake alone is plenty enough for them. and i have people who like it slumping with ballast so they get boosted like crazy. i have never added ballast beyond stock and PnP, i have never found a need for it, so therefore we never lose any storage space.

2 things i will say that are tricky with the x-25 is that it sure rides high and takes a bit to get on plane with a lot of weight in there. and that the wake can curl or wash a bit (nothing that will ruin your set) at different speeds.

Nick911
08-14-2013, 11:40 AM
I've had a 2012 and now 2013 X25.

The wake is steep which is great if your'e in the top 1% of boarders, otherwise, for an equally big wake with easier transition the old gen XStar or one of the others are more for intermediate to advanced riders who demand a big wake yet aren't technical enough to take advantage of a vertical wake.

The pro I had this summer out for lessons said the X25 is the worst absolute wake to learn on as its steep ramp requires you to pop quickly and the quick boot of the wake just tosses you up very quickly. It was great for him and he couldn't get enough of the vert he could get (he runs a 23LSV but came out to our lake several times just to run sets behind the 25).

My biggest concern in any MC is lack of a surf system. My next boat will be a G with NSS as I simply spent too much time this summer switching ballast. I love my MC but I also love not switching ballast constantly. Even though mine is all plumbed on switches, it still took 9 minutes.

197 TT
08-14-2013, 01:20 PM
Is the X25 surfable with stock ballast and tabs?

Nick911
08-14-2013, 01:47 PM
Is the X25 surfable with stock ballast and tabs?

With stock ballast and tabs only, yes. However, I'd run at least an extra 450 in rear to get enough lift to start with any tricks. With a full boat that's all we run and there is plenty of pocket on both sides (back to about 15 feet) at 11.2-11.4. Run an extra 470-750 per side if we want to go nuts and attempt 360's, etc...I'll speed it up a bit too as we add weight. Center tab at 40% for a nice long pocket, however, tab at 60% will make the lip crystal clean but you'll lose some lift or push.

As for bow weight, I'm told the X2 U-shaped sac will fit but can only be 1/2 filled, however for wakeboarding any more than stock plus a half dozen people and the wake starts to curl at slower speeds. I think the X30 can tolerate extra weight though maybe not as big as the X25's wake will have a gentler transition.

There are some great YouTube vids of the X25 pulling some tourneys. Can't remember exactly the titles, but one good one of Harley killing it behind one.

My contention is still the X25 is an advanced rider wake and not great for beginners/intermediates.

MattsCraft
08-14-2013, 01:51 PM
Yes it is, with at least 4 people including the driver in the boat. Better and more tune-able with extra ballast or sans people.

Bambamski1
08-14-2013, 04:05 PM
Nick top 1%? I don't know about that one. How are you weighting your boat?

If you're used to a wake from one of the best wakeboard boats ever made the 205v or the 210 san, the X-25 wake is similar with even more pop.

My dealer Martin is going to get 4 new x-25 orders this winter after friends that own Xstars, and X-2's and the 205v's have all ridden behind my X-25. There is something to be said about jumping in the boat and filling your stock ballast and going riding. No need to fill additional 750 pound sacs in the back compartments to get more then a speed bump... Buddies just like the fact the wake is as good stock, as a loaded star. You have to like a wake that provides pop though. i do agree it's not a beginner wake. If you have lots of beginners the star might be better as it isn't as intimidating out of the gate. Don't get me wrong you can get a big rampy wake on the star but it takes A LOT of weight.

if you you have a lift you understand that issue for sure. Nothing like having to fill and empty everytime you come in and put the boat on the lift.

I do a lot of trailering so the x46 isn't an option. For me it's a no brainer. x-25 is way more of an all around boat and that's the reason it's the number one seller in the MC line up. You can do everything but ski behind the X-25. Also as an added bonus it has a lot more room then the star in the cockpit area which is nice. Plus you don't scoop water over the bow...

c640947
08-14-2013, 04:09 PM
Bambamsk1 - how are you weighting yours for surfing? Can you surf with just stock + PnP ballast or do you always have some in the seats?

Nick911
08-15-2013, 02:26 AM
1% comment explained. It's like the 24 handicap golfer playing $6 golf ball. Is it a better golf ball then the $2 golf ball? It sure is, but only a 2 handicapper or below can maximize what that $6 golf ball can do.

501s
08-15-2013, 02:52 AM
Can we see some pics of these X-25 wakes please?

kgrove
08-15-2013, 10:23 AM
1% comment explained. It's like the 24 handicap golfer playing $6 golf ball. Is it a better golf ball then the $2 golf ball? It sure is, but only a 2 handicapper or below can maximize what that $6 golf ball can do.

If only hot women in bikinis would hang out with a guy because he has $6 balls. That would have saved a lot of us a TON of money on boats.

Nick911
08-15-2013, 12:18 PM
If only hot women in bikinis would hang out with a guy because he has $6 balls. That would have saved a lot of us a TON of money on boats.

If only haha. Grab a sleeve of Pro-V1's and head down to lake. :)

bjames
08-15-2013, 02:28 PM
Dont underestimate sacs and external pumps. :) I op'd NOT to plumb in the PWT sacs and instead went with 3 750 fat sacs and 2 external tsunami pumps.

Consider that the Tsunami pumps pump 1200gph (160lbs per minute) whereby the Jabsco pumps at 640gph (89 lbs per minute). The sacs fill twice as fast as the stock factory pumps and use a fraction of the power.

Also I like the portability to be able to position the bags in different locations.

Besides, I have 2 pumps incase I have to bail water really fast :D

bamabonners
08-15-2013, 02:45 PM
are the tsunami pumps aerator or reversible?

bjames
08-15-2013, 04:37 PM
are the tsunami pumps aerator or reversible?

They are the Turbo Tsunami from Wake makers. I picked up 2 of these;

http://www.wakemakers.com/elevate-turbo-ballast-pump.html

CottagerGreg
08-16-2013, 12:17 PM
Here is a pic from the other weekend. Kid from down the lake getting his first ride behind the x-star. He's 16 years old...

We had about 55 in the rear lockers and a 400 in the walkway and 5 people in the boat.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k212/GTI2lo/Cottage%202013/1096998_10151706154256877_301544299_o_zps214d67df. jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/GTI2lo/media/Cottage%202013/1096998_10151706154256877_301544299_o_zps214d67df. jpg.html)

Hitting a double up

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k212/GTI2lo/Cottage%202013/1085028_10151706155301877_483231499_o_zps712929a1. jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/GTI2lo/media/Cottage%202013/1085028_10151706155301877_483231499_o_zps712929a1. jpg.html)

Little video of the wake from the gopro
http://youtu.be/wcFwokDPcQc

Bambamski1
08-17-2013, 10:00 PM
here some pics from my x-25 wake just front ballast filled and 540 in the bow. no back ballast filled and 4 people in the boat.

the last pic is a friend wakeskating. that was no ballast at all zero just 4-5 in the boat and doing 21. that's as clean as it can get. any slower and it was too steep to wakeskate.

dvsone79
08-18-2013, 12:35 AM
Dont underestimate sacs and external pumps. :) I op'd NOT to plumb in the PWT sacs and instead went with 3 750 fat sacs and 2 external tsunami pumps.

Consider that the Tsunami pumps pump 1200gph (160lbs per minute) whereby the Jabsco pumps at 640gph (89 lbs per minute). The sacs fill twice as fast as the stock factory pumps and use a fraction of the power.

Also I like the portability to be able to position the bags in different locations.

Besides, I have 2 pumps incase I have to bail water really fast :D

This is the current method I use, to the "t", and while I appreciate your "glass half full" attitude, I can't wait to plumb my sacs in this winter. Don't underestimate convenience. By the time you fetch the pumps, fetch the 3rd sac to put in the bow walkway, dump the pump over the side, attach the hose to the sac, plug in the 12v, then stow away the pump, you've more than doubled the fill time. Same for emptying. Not to mention, when filling using tsunami pumps you can't be moving or the pumps won't stay primed. Not an issue when draining, but I'm not going miss those pumps when I get everything plumbed, that's for sure! As soon as you put in, hit a button. By the time you pick up your riders and all the gear is arranged and the first rider gets ready, your sacs are full.

Nick911
08-18-2013, 01:12 AM
here some pics from my x-25 wake just front ballast filled and 540 in the bow. no back ballast filled and 4 people in the boat.

the last pic is a friend wakeskating. that was no ballast at all zero just 4-5 in the boat and doing 21. that's as clean as it can get. any slower and it was too steep to wakeskate.

Mine seems way steeper. The bow weight seems to be money though it was too rough to board today will try tomorrow.

Aric'sX15
08-18-2013, 01:19 AM
This is the current method I use, to the "t", and while I appreciate your "glass half full" attitude, I can't wait to plumb my sacs in this winter. Don't underestimate convenience. By the time you fetch the pumps, fetch the 3rd sac to put in the bow walkway, dump the pump over the side, attach the hose to the sac, plug in the 12v, then stow away the pump, you've more than doubled the fill time. Same for emptying. Not to mention, when filling using tsunami pumps you can't be moving or the pumps won't stay primed. Not an issue when draining, but I'm not going miss those pumps when I get everything plumbed, that's for sure! As soon as you put in, hit a button. By the time you pick up your riders and all the gear is arranged and the first rider gets ready, your sacs are full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2WzQzxuoA

dvsone79
08-18-2013, 10:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2WzQzxuoA

LMAO! Well played, sir!

"I poured the cereal without checking to see if we had milk. We don't." Now THAT is a legitimate FWP.

"My iPhone 5 is too big to fit in my skinny jeans." This is the main reason I do squats and deadlifts. So that my legs are too big to fit in skinny jeans.

Aric'sX15
08-18-2013, 12:20 PM
I had to post it! Haha. I do agree about the convenience factor though.

bjames
08-19-2013, 12:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2WzQzxuoA

:uglyhamme That is funny!!

Dvsone79, I see what your saying and agree on the conveniences, I also assume your adjusting your ballast throughout the day for different riding setups. For me, I fill everything at the start and dont touch them till I empty them at the end of the day, unless of course we decide to surf, but thats not too often :) so I dont mind the little bit of work.

I thought very hard about pluming in the bags in, but decided not to so that I can move the bags around and also use my 400s if needed - the portability for me is a convenience.

There are also times that I leave the bags at home and only use stock - do this to give the lockers a chance to dry out ;)