PDA

View Full Version : Throttle Position Sensor Bad on 2006 star MCX


craig3972
08-12-2013, 12:34 AM
I had some problems with my boat this past weekend. my mechanic read the codes and it pointed to a PPS (pedal position sensor). I assume that this part is from a car and can be purchased at a local auto parts dealer. Does anyone know what the P/N# for this item would be?

dsword
08-12-2013, 11:51 AM
We had the same code come up on our boat, same year, same engine. It happened when throttle was near idle, not fun when trying to dock. Had the part replaced at the dealer. Don't know if it is a standard part. It was not cheap.

David Sword

CantRepeat
08-12-2013, 06:25 PM
I had some problems with my boat this past weekend. my mechanic read the codes and it pointed to a PPS (pedal position sensor). I assume that this part is from a car and can be purchased at a local auto parts dealer. Does anyone know what the P/N# for this item would be?


What code was it?

craig3972
08-13-2013, 09:19 AM
What code was it?

forget the code number but it pointed the finger at the the PPS.
The part is $235.00 from my local dealer, I will just buy it there.

mcxfan
08-14-2013, 12:20 PM
Do you have a part number and where it's located???? I may be having he same issue. Once I scan the code I will know for sure.

craig3972
08-15-2013, 12:49 AM
I went to my local dealer to buy the $235.00 part and it was the wrong one, and you have to buy ( $575.00 Teledyne mfg.) the whole throttle assy for that year and model of boat. The manufacturer of the sensor only is BEI. The number on the unit is 9861 0406. I am going to try to source the part direct from them.

I did disassemble the sensor and cleaned off the contact portion of the potentiometer. It was assembled at the factory with a clear grease. I wiped this used grease off and it was very black. I reassembled the unit and going to give it a try because I wont have any option for this coming weekend. I will let you know how it goes, and hopefully post a picture.

The part is located behind the drivers side throttle panel.

craig3972
08-22-2013, 06:25 PM
I took the position sensor off the throttle assembly, opened it up, cleaned it, put it back together, and it worked without alarming a code. Fingers crossed.

CantRepeat
08-22-2013, 07:02 PM
I took the position sensor off the throttle assembly, opened it up, cleaned it, put it back together, and it worked with alarming a code. Fingers crossed.

What is the code number?

craig3972
08-22-2013, 10:38 PM
code is 65605

CantRepeat
08-23-2013, 05:28 AM
That doesn't seem like a MEFI 4 DTC code.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/MEFI/MEFI-4%20Trouble%20Codes%20%28DTC%27s%29.pdf

I assume you have the throttle by wire system, if so are we talking about the that part?

mcmx2
08-23-2013, 08:31 AM
Does this look like the sensor that you took apart and cleaned?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BEI-Sensors/9861R5KL20/?qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3g PG8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

I had the same issue three years ago on my 05. They wanted close to $600 for the whole thing. I called Chuck at BAWS and he told me that they either are fail or if it is intermittent (which mine was) they can usually be taken apart and cleaned and tightened. I did this and have had no problems for over three years and close to 400 hours now. I them saw someone post this link so I book marked it as I think (not positive) that it is the piece that goes bad and thought I may need one someday.

CantRepeat
08-23-2013, 08:53 AM
So we are talking about the TPS. I was unsure because I couldn't figure out why one would cost $600 bucks!!

mcmx2
08-23-2013, 09:00 AM
Can't repeat,

The $600 is for the whole throttle control assembly and they will not sell the sensor seperatly.

CantRepeat
08-23-2013, 11:11 AM
Can't repeat,

The $600 is for the whole throttle control assembly and they will not sell the sensor seperatly.


Ah, so it's like the fuel pump canister, you can't get just the pump from MC.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

wheeler
08-23-2013, 12:06 PM
Nice work guy's. this will be saved as one of my favorites for future use (if needed).

craig3972
08-25-2013, 02:11 PM
Does this look like the sensor that you took apart and cleaned?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BEI-Sensors/9861R5KL20/?qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3g PG8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

I had the same issue three years ago on my 05. They wanted close to $600 for the whole thing. I called Chuck at BAWS and he told me that they either are fail or if it is intermittent (which mine was) they can usually be taken apart and cleaned and tightened. I did this and have had no problems for over three years and close to 400 hours now. I them saw someone post this link so I book marked it as I think (not positive) that it is the piece that goes bad and thought I may need one someday.

Yes it looks very similar, same brand name as well.

petermegan
08-25-2013, 05:28 PM
try: Mouser Electronics,
682-9861R5KL2.0
MFG PN:9861R5KL2.0
5K OHM CW 6PIN
BEI Sensors
$80bucks or thereabouts.

Posted this a while back, my mate in OZ found this supplier as an alternative to replacing the whole unit through Mastercraft. Is a perfect replacement. Same as link I assume. Have fun.....

CT_2006X2
06-24-2014, 10:18 PM
I just purchased the TPS from Mouser. Thank you! I think this is a going to be a great workaround instead of buying the whole dang throttle lever and now wiring harness that you have to have. With labor close to $900 from my local shop (boat town, Austin TX). However how the heck do I install this? Do you have to take off the entire right body molding that's all black, and houses the speaker? Any insight on how to get to, and install is appreciated. thanks!

craig3972
06-26-2014, 10:44 PM
I believe you can just remove the aluminum panel that the throttle is mounted to. On mine I can just remove the top screws on the black panel and gently bend it back to gain access to the backside of the throttle linkage.

mikeg205
06-27-2014, 12:13 AM
pictures please for the rest of us.. :) somebody buy some extra parts please.. Bruce at Action Water - Corey at Midwest - Rambo Marine?

KurtG 05 X30
07-08-2014, 11:47 AM
I took the position sensor off the throttle assembly, opened it up, cleaned it, put it back together, and it worked without alarming a code. Fingers crossed.
Did you problem get solved? Im having the same issue, the dealer mechanic has replaced the throttle body and another sensor and it's still not working.

craig3972
07-08-2014, 12:03 PM
Mine failed last summer, but after cleaning and reassembly of the sensor , I haven't had any issues with it.

Asamp005
07-09-2014, 12:37 PM
Craig - when your sensor failed, what were the effects? When you push throttle down, no acceleration? Was boat put into "limp mode"? I am having a similar issue and just trying to diagnose the issue.
Thanks for any input.

jlmzaine
07-10-2014, 12:52 AM
2006 Mastercraft Prostar 197 with MCX 350 Vortec engine, factory Perfect Pass, and Drive by Wire throttle. Over the past year, I've experienced intermittent episodes where the idle becomes a little erratic. It is usually fine for some portion of the day, but it starts to act up. Idle typically surges erratically but does not drop below the typical 650 rpm. Occasionally, the check engine alarm goes off, and we turn the engine off. All this behavior occurs when the perfect pass is off. Is this behavior consistent with the problems seen by others in this thread? Were others able to replace the BEI sensor and resolve the issue? No recalibration necessary?

Danno
08-04-2014, 01:56 PM
Craig - when your sensor failed, what were the effects? When you push throttle down, no acceleration? Was boat put into "limp mode"? I am having a similar issue and just trying to diagnose the issue.
Thanks for any input.


Any luck with this issue? My 05 X45 is doing the same thing.

adgrayiv
03-30-2015, 07:01 PM
I have a 2007 X-Star and my Mechanic said he called Texas MC and they told him I would need a Throttle Body Assembly they said that is the part that usually goes out and not the sensor. But the part for the Throttle Body Assy is $900 - the Sensor is $350.

My problem started early in the summer the Chk Engine Alarm would go off (it had been going off and no codes would come up) Well I finally cracked a head and had to rebuild the engine. Anyway before and after the rebuild the Boat would go into safety mode meaning it would give enough power to plain out. I would then just kick it back to idle turn the boat off then back on and then it would work. Near the end of the summer it seemed to happen more often like 2 or 3 times each day. In the beginning of last summer it would just occasionally happen.

I guess my question is should I have him remove and disassemble the Throttle Body and clean? Or does anyone now where I can find this part for less than $900???

Sodar
06-15-2015, 01:35 PM
try: Mouser Electronics,
682-9861R5KL2.0
MFG PN:9861R5KL2.0
5K OHM CW 6PIN
BEI Sensors
$80bucks or thereabouts.

Posted this a while back, my mate in OZ found this supplier as an alternative to replacing the whole unit through Mastercraft. Is a perfect replacement. Same as link I assume. Have fun.....

Does this look like the sensor that you took apart and cleaned?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BEI-Sensors/9861R5KL20/?qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3g PG8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

I had the same issue three years ago on my 05. They wanted close to $600 for the whole thing. I called Chuck at BAWS and he told me that they either are fail or if it is intermittent (which mine was) they can usually be taken apart and cleaned and tightened. I did this and have had no problems for over three years and close to 400 hours now. I them saw someone post this link so I book marked it as I think (not positive) that it is the piece that goes bad and thought I may need one someday.

I am bumping this thread for future reference that this sensor is the correct part for the DBW system. I was having an issue where my boat was revving to ~2,000 rpms every time the boat is pulled out of gear. Replacing this sensor fixed the problem and was a direct replacement that took me 20 minutes from start to finish.

mikeg205
06-15-2015, 01:41 PM
I will put in library.. Thanks Sodar!

Sodar
06-15-2015, 01:48 PM
Pic of the sensor for reference.

CantRepeat
06-15-2015, 03:41 PM
Glad you got the boat fix. Strange that you didn't get a check engine light on that. Well, I'm not even sure there is a code for that sensor. I'll have to look.

And that sensor doesn't go on the TBI but on the throttle lever at the helm? I thought this thread started out about TPS?

Regardless, nice find and fix.

Sodar
06-15-2015, 04:02 PM
Glad you got the boat fix. Strange that you didn't get a check engine light on that. Well, I'm not even sure there is a code for that sensor. I'll have to look.

And that sensor doesn't go on the TBI but on the throttle lever at the helm? Yes. I thought this thread started out about TPS? It started about the Throttle Position Sensor or Pedal Position Sensor, as some call it. It is a little sensor on the throttle linkage. After replacing the sensor with the new part, I took apart the old one to see if I could see anything. Long story short, the dielectric grease had turned an ugly black, not the usual translucent white. Other than that, I saw nothing visually wrong with it.

Regardless, nice find and fix.

Very excited it solved the problem. Only $65 and the cost of gas to get out there and back. Much better than dragging the boat home and having it sit at the dealer for weeks on end.

CantRepeat
06-15-2015, 05:46 PM
Yeah for some reason I overlooked the PPS in the OPs post. Somewhere I read TPS and just followed that.

EFI blindness.

Njbryan
06-21-2015, 10:07 AM
Same issue for me this year. 2006 x2 mcx. Boat would random rev at idle. Makes for interesting dock. Lol. Pulled switch at helm, opened, cleaned with contact cleaner, reinstall. Thanks Sodar for posting the pic of the backside. Be carful opening the switch. Spring came loose on me and was fun figuring out. I got scared and ordered another from Mouser like others but actually installed the old one once I figured it out. Passed garden hose test. Lots of great people here. You all saved us $1000. Dealer quote. Thank you!

mreed0167
07-14-2015, 10:34 PM
How did you remove the actual sensor? The one pin going into from the throttle arm seems to have a fancy small clip holding it in place on the inside of the sensor. I have the old sensor taken off the throttle with the little gold arm still attached to it. The sensor is disassembled in half....I was wondering if there is a way to prevent having to open up the new sensor I ordered when it arrives.
The spring came out of the old one on me...not sure how it goes back together now or if it even matters how the spring is positioned.

Sodar
07-15-2015, 12:33 PM
How did you remove the actual sensor? The one pin going into from the throttle arm seems to have a fancy small clip holding it in place on the inside of the sensor. I have the old sensor taken off the throttle with the little gold arm still attached to it. The sensor is disassembled in half....I was wondering if there is a way to prevent having to open up the new sensor I ordered when it arrives.
The spring came out of the old one on me...not sure how it goes back together now or if it even matters how the spring is positioned.

The metal lever just pulls out from the sensor. Nothing holds it in the except the two screws when it is mounted to the throttle assembly.

dcom21
07-30-2015, 06:19 PM
We have a 2007 xstar and the throttle was intermittently working and the check engine alarm would go off every time we started the boat. I took it to the dealer and they said it was probably the throttle position sensor but we would have to replace the whole throttle ($600 for just the throttle!). My husband found a thread here that someone posted that they took apart the facade, took the sensor out and cleaned it, and it had ran fine for them for 3 years. My husband did the same thing and our boat has now run great since without any alarms going off!! I would try cleaning the sensor before replacing it! If you need the part number (which I don't know if it will be the same for you due to the difference in year), there is a thread somewhere here that has it posted. It was under $60!

Derek Thomas
08-06-2015, 02:51 PM
where is the plug in for the scanner on this boat guys is it under the dash or in the motor compartment

Sodar
08-06-2015, 03:04 PM
Motor compartment. Rear of the motor. Under the ECM where the main breakers are.

kwood
08-15-2015, 06:14 PM
I am in need of this sensor I have been waiting for 4-5 weeks for the part. They are trying to sell me the entire throttle and handle assemble. I know there has to be some regular tps sensor that will work. I tried mouser electronics. they are on back order til mid September. I find it hard to believe that it is some unique sensor

SilvrSurfr
04-16-2016, 02:35 AM
I am reviving this thread because I think I may be having this problem. I have an 05 1997 TT with the MCX. The boat is new to me so no previous experience with it with regards to this. Took the boat out a week ago. We ran it around for about and hour and it ran fine the whole time. I didn't notice any surging or idle issues. We were at the dock after about an hour of run time. After a restart it alarmed, and flashed Check Engine on the Diagnostic screen. I shut it down and restarted, same thing again. Looked things over and tried again, this time no issues and we continued for another hour or so with no problems. Took it to the local boat shop (non MC unfortunately but we don't have one here). He says it is giving a "Throttle Code" and is looking into something to do with the throttle control. I posted this on a new thread, but have now stumbled on this thread. I'm going to find out what the code number was, but I'm curious if anyone had a similar experience to mine with no real symptoms other than the alarm and warning. I'm going to mention this to our service tech in the mean time and see what he says. Any further info you guys have would be much appreciated.

Quinn

seth1776
04-30-2016, 03:52 PM
I replaced mine with the mouser part. hardest part was taking the side panel off. Now I have it all back together, put the boat in and getting error 81 using a mercury scanner it appears to be TAC. Also I had no throttle at all at start up prior to the chk engine light going on. Any thoughts?

SilvrSurfr
05-01-2016, 12:23 AM
Well, I had our mechanic look into my problem, and after a lengthy back and forth with MC and another shop they flashed the computer. It now has something call "checksum 371A" loaded. Took it out for a couple hours, and no more codes or alarms. We'll see how long it lasts. I'll keep you posted.

Quinn

mikeg205
05-01-2016, 08:42 AM
I replaced mine with the mouser part. hardest part was taking the side panel off. Now I have it all back together, put the boat in and getting error 81 using a mercury scanner it appears to be TAC. Also I had no throttle at all at start up prior to the chk engine light going on. Any thoughts?

Does the TPS have a base setting so they can understand commands from the TAC? I.e is there a base voltage expected at throttle closed? My 95 TBI non TBW has a base setting that needs to set when installing a TPS for proper operation.

There are manuals in the dropbox - link can be found in the general topic category.

CantRepeat
05-01-2016, 09:22 AM
Well, I had our mechanic look into my problem, and after a lengthy back and forth with MC and another shop they flashed the computer. It now has something call "checksum 371A" loaded. Took it out for a couple hours, and no more codes or alarms. We'll see how long it lasts. I'll keep you posted.

Quinn

Indmar uses the checksum of a calibration file, or CAL file, as another way to identify the file.

A checksum or hash sum is a small-size datum from a block of digital data for the purpose of detecting errors which may have been introduced during its transmission or storage. It is usually applied to an installation file after it is received from the download server.

ZachDaddy
05-22-2016, 06:13 PM
Whats the Mouser Part Number and website?? I have the PPS problem and have the $900 solution but would like to try and go the less expensive route....

CantRepeat
05-22-2016, 06:26 PM
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?BEI-Sensors%2f9861R5KL20%2f&qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3gP G8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

UTVol481
07-18-2016, 12:11 PM
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?BEI-Sensors%2f9861R5KL20%2f&qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3gP G8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

Do you think this is the same TPS for a 2006 X-1? I suspect it is, but just wanted to check.

I'm trying to avoid taking to local Indmar service, as they're backed up at least a couple weeks.

Hoping I can hack this issue myself (with Team Talk help).

It's sad that in MasterCraft's back yard that there is no reliable service center. American Boat Center is great for sales/pro shop, but absolutely worthless for service.

CantRepeat
07-18-2016, 01:45 PM
Do you think this is the same TPS for a 2006 X-1? I suspect it is, but just wanted to check.

I'm trying to avoid taking to local Indmar service, as they're backed up at least a couple weeks.

Hoping I can hack this issue myself (with Team Talk help).

It's sad that in MasterCraft's back yard that there is no reliable service center. American Boat Center is great for sales/pro shop, but absolutely worthless for service.

The sensor listed in this thread is not the TPS. It is peddle position sensor or PPS that attaches to the throttle up by the helm.

What symptoms are experiencing?

Which MEFI does your boat have. 4 or 5?

Are you getting MIL/Check engine light? If so, have you scanned for codes?

UTVol481
07-18-2016, 02:31 PM
Between 1800-2400 RPM's I'm getting random increases/decreases in RPM's without touching the throttle. It's as if someone is pushing or pulling the throttle. Most recently it began to stay in higher RPM's even when throttle is pulled back to idle.

The check engine alarm has gone off at least twice, but very briefly, and went away after shutting down the engine.

At first it was so random and sporadic that I didn't give it a thought, however this past weekend it occurred regularly. The engine seems to be running great otherwise, oil pressure good, temp good, volts good, and a smooth idle.

Unfortunately I have not been able to get the codes checked. There are 3 dealers that service Indmar locally in Knoxville, and I will only deal with one of them. Really trying to avoid being without the boat for a couple weeks.

I'm not sure which MEFI I have. Indmar 5.7L RTP-1, 2005 year on engine.

CantRepeat
07-19-2016, 05:05 AM
Is the boat throttle by wire of is there a cable running to the TBI/TPI?

If it's an 05 RTP then I suspect it is not throttle by wire and if that is the case I do not believe you have a PPS on that boat. Can you get a photo of the motor uploaded some where for us to look at?

UTVol481
07-19-2016, 11:12 AM
Is the boat throttle by wire of is there a cable running to the TBI/TPI?

If it's an 05 RTP then I suspect it is not throttle by wire and if that is the case I do not believe you have a PPS on that boat. Can you get a photo of the motor uploaded some where for us to look at?

I want to say it is Throttle by wire, but not certain.

Dropped it off to have check engine code read, and will know more once that's done.

If it does not have throttle bye wire, would that mean it may be an issue with the TPS, instead of the PPS, or are they one in the same?

Sodar
07-19-2016, 11:33 AM
TPS is on the motor, PPS is on the shifter.

CantRepeat
07-19-2016, 04:52 PM
If you don't have TBW then you would not have a PPS. If that is the case then I would think it's a fuel delivery issue.

UTVol481
07-22-2016, 02:17 PM
So, I was finally able to get the check engine codes checked and the service tech did confirm it was throwing a "Position Senor" code. He indicated to me that it was not the Pedal Position Sensor that I suspected to be the issue, but the Throttle Position Sensor on the engine side.

He's quoting around $350 for that part, does that sound correct?

I haven't seen any links to that particular part in this thread, just the BEI part that I ordered from Mouser. http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?BEI-Sensors%2f9861R5KL20%2f&qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3gP G8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

Thanks to this forum for helping me isolate the issue!

devanwon
07-25-2016, 02:36 AM
Mine is an 06 X-star with the mcx engine and it had a similar issue, look the sensor apart and cleaned it and added some dielectric grease and bolted it together and yesterday was the test. Worked perfect no more intermittent check engine light after a full day of use. Thanks for all the info guys!

toddster
07-27-2016, 09:50 AM
just took 07xstar to the dealer, bad peddle position sensor. $1250 canadian, installed. The part is around $900 and will be 10 days away from mastercraft. Going to pick it up and tear it apart, clean and grease. Looking at the thread that seems to work most often. Will update after repair and a week on the lake.

mikeg205
07-27-2016, 10:16 AM
just took 07xstar to the dealer, bad peddle position sensor. $1250 canadian, installed. The part is around $900 and will be 10 days away from mastercraft. Going to pick it up and tear it apart, clean and grease. Looking at the thread that seems to work most often. Will update after repair and a week on the lake.

cough??!!! - $1250? if you use di-electric grease - remember not to get it on contact points..

CantRepeat
07-27-2016, 01:17 PM
just took 07xstar to the dealer, bad peddle position sensor. $1250 canadian, installed. The part is around $900 and will be 10 days away from mastercraft. Going to pick it up and tear it apart, clean and grease. Looking at the thread that seems to work most often. Will update after repair and a week on the lake.

cough??!!! - $1250? if you use di-electric grease - remember not to get it on contact points..

As Mike has pointed out $1250 is just robbery without the gun in your back.

For less then $60 bucks this is worth a try first.


http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?BEI-Sensors%2f9861R5KL20%2f&qs=y%252bTtbMcwHOmUDGism%2f8OiiH4uLrY1dziY9cxcY3gP G8kxcDojESlYA%3d%3d

toddster
07-28-2016, 09:24 AM
thanks for the tip on keeping grease off the contacts. disassembly about to start. going to clean for now and order up the part at www.mouser...

toddster
07-28-2016, 01:24 PM
Just ordered from Mouser, super friendly. $58 plus shipping. Took the old peddle position sensor apart, going to clean it and try it, but thought for the $58 I would get a new sensor on the way.

ditri
08-28-2016, 07:00 PM
Hi. I was fighting with the TPS (or PPS?) sensor. Its the sensor on the image below. I was cleaning them and the boats runs fine. But few days later was the error codes back. Is the sensor on image the sensor from Mouser? I have chaos in TPS and PPS words here....

Mouser Electronics,
682-9861R5KL2.0
MFG PN:9861R5KL2.0
5K OHM CW 6PIN
BEI Sensors

If yes, how you change the small lever on sensor? It looks like the lever is hard molded on the sensor. How you measure the ankle of the lever? Thanks a lot.

Sodar
08-29-2016, 10:31 AM
The lever is kept and not a part of the sensor. All that you need is the sensor listed above.

CantRepeat
08-29-2016, 12:48 PM
And you are correct, it is the PPS. TPS is on the motor.

ditri
08-29-2016, 03:48 PM
Thanks. As i cleanded old PPS it looks like the lever is molded on PPS - how you pull down from old PPS? And how you make correcr fit on new sensor? Do you have some trick ;-)?

UTVol481
09-05-2016, 09:50 AM
After replacing the TPS (engine side) after the 4th of July weekend, I seem to be having another throttle issue.

I can shift into Forward, Neutral, and Reverse however the engine does not rev up past 680 RPMs.

No check engine codes appeared.

Any ideas?

jkski
09-06-2016, 09:16 AM
I was told by the dealer that you cannot replace just the PPS sensor, you actually have to replace the entire assembly at a rough cost of $650 for the part alone.
Let me know if you find out differently.

UTVol481
09-06-2016, 10:25 AM
jkski, you might want to review all of the posts from this thread.

What your dealer said is similar to what others have been told, but not necessarily true.

If it is the PPS then you should be able to order the part, see the numerous links to mouser electronics in previous posts.

You might want to call Bruce(?) at Action Water Sports in Traverse City, he's wealth of knowledge when it comes to parts.

bsilvertab
09-06-2016, 03:55 PM
Anyone know the part number for the actual TPS? All I see in this thread is the part for the PPS.