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avorob
08-10-2013, 03:12 PM
Looking for wiring diagram for ballast pumps (X2 06'). Trying to untangle an issue; port works to fill and empty, KGB just fill, starboard doesn't work at all.
Are there separate pumps to fill and empty KGB tank? I found one that fills it (image 2). Am I understanding correctly that there is the same pump to fill and empty port and another pump to fill and empty starboard (image 1)? I don't think that I'm looking at the right pump though as it still turns after I disconnect wiring on the port side.

The fuses for the ballast pumps seem to be OK.

Any heads up?

tr6coug
08-10-2013, 03:33 PM
There are 3 pumps. The port / stbd pumps are behind the carpeted rear panel of the rear lockers. You have to unscrew the panel to get to them. The KGB pump is next to the transmission on the stbd side (pic 2). The pumps are reversible and each tank is filled and emptied by its own pump. There is a pump controller below the rear port seat. This connects to the switches at the dash then controls each pump. The switches are not directly connected to the pumps.

The top picture is one of the tank level sending units, not a pump. Do the pumps run but just don't fill/empty tanks? Or, do the pump motors run in one direction but not the other?

If they run but don't fill or empty then you probably have impellers that need to be replaced. If they run in one direction but not the other then you most likely have a wiring problem at the pump switches.

avorob
08-10-2013, 03:56 PM
It sounds that I have an electric problem, the pumps don't make noise in respective switch position. How would u start on finding the issue; with the switches? Where is the best place to short them? BTW the switches light up.
Thx for your insight

tr6coug
08-10-2013, 05:12 PM
First, check to make sure that the connections from the pump controller to the pumps are ok. That year might have plugs from the controller to the pumps. If one of the plugs is loose it may be the cause.

If those are tight, then...

If the switches light up but the pumps don't run then you may have frozen pump motors. The rear pumps may have been mounted with the pump head on top which can leak into the pump motor and rust the bearings. I would pull the covers off of the pump heads and see if you can turn the shaft by hand. If they are hard to turn or grind then the pumps are likely shot.

If they turn easily, then you might have a low voltage problem. To check for this, pull the pump controller box off and measure the voltage of the power leads (red and black) that feed the controller box. It should be greater than 12v when the engine is running.

avorob
08-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Yes, the LED's do light up on the toggle switches. The KGB tank empty started working while I was trying to take the panel off with the ballast gauges and switches (the one by right hand). It stopped working though after a few on/off cycles. The other (port) switch sometimes not emptying but works ok when I switch it on/off little slower. How do you diagnose that? BTW, I can lift the panel by only about ah inch. Looks like the wires are holding it down.

I had all the pumps working earlier this summer.

tr6coug
08-10-2013, 06:19 PM
OK, make sure the switch connections are tight, but if they are all flaky then its probably not the switches.

I'd check the power wires at the battery and the ballast controller. If you have loose connections there then the whole system will be unreliable. I've seen many ballast controllers that had very loose wiring. Some have star washers, some have lock washers and some have no washers on the power connections.

Check all of the power wires inside the controller box and make sure they are all tight. If they are loose, make sure you put some lock washers on them to keep them tight.

avorob
08-10-2013, 06:39 PM
All the relays are clicking. Focusing on the KGB bump (the one that fills but not empties) - the ground is not reversing on the wires by the pump. Is is supposed to do that?

tr6coug
08-10-2013, 07:13 PM
If you measure voltage on the orange and blue pump power wires, you should see +12v in one direction then -12v when the pump reverses. You can disconnect the pumps to measure this you need to.

avorob
08-10-2013, 07:35 PM
Update.
The KGB switch is working to empty. Could it because it was no water in the sack? It looks like it kicks in with a slight delay like 5 sec and I never had it on for that long when tested. Now on the STBRD pump; it is stuck - impeller is not turning. Will try to loosen it up in the AM in the garage. Thanks for your guidance.
Will post update on my progress tomorrow.

tr6coug
08-11-2013, 01:23 PM
Update.
The KGB switch is working to empty. Could it because it was no water in the sack? It looks like it kicks in with a slight delay like 5 sec and I never had it on for that long when tested. Now on the STBRD pump; it is stuck - impeller is not turning. Will try to loosen it up in the AM in the garage. Thanks for your guidance.
Will post update on my progress tomorrow.

KGB empty should turn on quicker than that. It should start to run and if it senses the tank is empty then shut off. I would disconnect the pump controller from the battery for 10 - 15 sec to reset everything. If its still flakey I can reprogram the controllers with a more reliable firmware. Check out this thread about that.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=50038

CantRepeat
08-11-2013, 01:36 PM
I'm pretty sure 06s do not have timers/controller. It should just be the relay system.

The first post in this thread has the factory wiring layout for 06s.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=40934

avorob
08-11-2013, 02:03 PM
Morning tr6coug

I discovered that the pump would start working after I tap the respective relay with a screw driver. (Found it out the hard way; after disconnecting and disassembling the pump itself and yanking out and testing the panel with switches and flip flopping the fill level sensors.)

Does it mean that the relays are bad? If yes, where is the place to get those.

BTW, am I assuming correctly the the level gauges are not in the circuit with the pumps? The pump worked with the disconnected gauges. Also, is there a circuit board for the controller or just a set of six relays?

Thx for all your help

tr6coug
08-11-2013, 02:16 PM
CR was right, no timers! Forget what I said about programming. Later versions of the controller box have Jabsco pump timers. There is no other controller board for your system.

Yes, if you have to tap a relay to get it to switch then you should replace it. Any manufacturer / part number on them?

Yes, the tank level sensing is a separate circuit.

rgardjr1
08-11-2013, 02:21 PM
Morning tr6coug

I discovered that the pump would start working after I tap the respective relay with a screw driver. (Found it out the hard way; after disconnecting and disassembling the pump itself and yanking out and testing the panel with switches and flip flopping the fill level sensors.)

Does it mean that the relays are bad? If yes, where is the place to get those.

You've got a bad relay/relays. I had the same problem with my KGB pump this summer-empty worked, but fill didn't. I swapped the pump with the starboard pump and had same problem. After this I knew I had a relay problem. Sure enough a couple of taps on the relay with a screwdriver and fill was working. I ordered a replacement relay off of Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TEO9GU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mines been working so I haven't put the new relay in yet. Hopefully I'll make it through the rest of the summer and tackle it this winter.

avorob
08-11-2013, 02:21 PM
Thx for the diagram CantRepeat,

Here is what I have on the boat for the relays:
HELLA
4RD
960 388-15
25530904

Found a few links:
http://greatlakesskipper.com/en_us/hella-4rd-960-388-15-black-12v-boat-relay
http://www.imperialsupplies.com/item/0722500
http://www.ase-supply.com/87411_MINI_SPDT_CHANGE_OVER_RELAY_p/hl-87411.htm
http://www.rallylights.com/relay-spdt-resistor-weatherproof.html

avorob
08-11-2013, 02:25 PM
Looks like Amazon is the best price. Will get a few to qualify for free shipping ;)
I've assembled and disassembled soooo many time so it will be no problem to switch those before the winter.

Thx all for your help.