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Eagle
07-30-2013, 10:32 PM
Any word on a Mastercraft surf system ala the Nautique NSS or Malibu Surfgate? It seems that to be really competitive in the surf boat space, MC needs something similar. Surf tabs don't compare. The other surf systems let you change from wakeboard to port surf to starboard surf in seconds.

sand2snow22
07-30-2013, 11:09 PM
1:11-1:14. 3 seconds is al you need :)

http://vimeo.com/69013295

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 10:07 AM
On the NWWSA surf competition last week they use Centurion boats. The Enzo 244 comes with a new Ramfill, and CATS system along with tabs. Supposedly giving you control over 3 axis to shape the wake.

Apparently nobody could get it to work right so they picked a setting and thats what everyone surfing was stuck with.

Read this article.

http://flyboywakesurf.com/nwwsa-day-1/

Stick with MC. They are like Microsoft, usually last to the market, but always better than the rest and done right the first time when they get there.

Plus the marketing of such additions takes away from whats actually necessary to use the boat. Take Centurion for example. They market that they have the most tunable wave. Yet not even the pro's can tune it right.

Centurion reps at the competition gave up and set it to a basic standard that sort of worked even though the promise of individual rider preference was going to be done.

wakecumberland
07-31-2013, 10:32 AM
Stick with MC. They are like Microsoft, usually last to the market, but always better than the rest and done right the first time when they get there.


Really? MC doesn't always get it right the first time. Ask owners of boats with the BIG system on 2011-12 boats. Or how about the ZFT2 tower or ZFT5 power tower? Lots of problems. Of course you were right about MC being like Microsoft, they are just not always the best. Case in point: Windows 8, Zune mp3 player, Surface tablet, SPOT watch, Microsoft KIN mobile phone, Windows XP tablet, UltimateTV DVR...what did i miss? :D Don't get me wrong, I love my MC but I guess I didn't drink the kool-aid.

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 10:48 AM
Really? MC doesn't always get it right the first time. Ask owners of boats with the BIG system on 2011-12 boats. Or how about the ZFT2 tower or ZFT5 power tower? Lots of problems. Of course you were right about MC being like Microsoft, they are just not always the best. Case in point: Windows 8, Zune mp3 player, Surface tablet, SPOT watch, Microsoft KIN mobile phone, Windows XP tablet, UltimateTV DVR...what did i miss? :D Don't get me wrong, I love my MC but I guess I didn't drink the kool-aid.

Oh get off your horse.

Typical American, never satisfied. Expects perfect every time.

Last I checked MC and Microsoft are the industry leaders for the products they supply.

I run a 1.2 million dollar a year construction company that operates all on surface pro tablets, windows 8 computers, HP DL class servers, and I never have had issues.

You will be hard pressed to sell me. I'll keep drinking my "making money hand over fist" flavored kool-aid while I run my zero issues MC all over your bull.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

wakecumberland
07-31-2013, 11:17 AM
Don't take it personal, this is just friendly banter! With all due respect, you are the one that said Microsoft and MC products are "always better than the rest and done right the first time" According to your profile, your boat is 18 years old. MC is not the same company it was 18 years ago, not saying thats good or bad, just that the industry and the boats are totally different than in 1995. Since MC is not a public company, we really don't know if they are making money "hand over fist" but we know Microsoft stock has been basically flat at $30 a share for the last 13 years and Apple's net income is more than double theirs. All companies get things wrong. They are run by humans, its only natural. With respect to that, we shouldnt expect any company to bring products to market that are "always better than the rest and done right the first time" BTW, I dont ride horses :)

Mossyrocks
07-31-2013, 11:22 AM
K. I. S. S.

Keep it simple stupid. I wish ALL the wake boat manufacturers would get back to this. Unfortunately the market is driving them (and everyone else for that matter) to the "smart phone" mentality everyone seems to have these days. "Look at all the gadgets ours has!" "Screw you, ours can do this!" Most of which does very little for what the product hopes to achieve as its main goal. And as a by-product drives the price sky high, out of its own core market that made it, until suddenly the only people with the money to buy said product could care less about the gadgetry.

Just my opinion, maybe im partially or totally wrong.

bturner2
07-31-2013, 11:30 AM
Really? MC doesn't always get it right the first time. Ask owners of boats with the BIG system on 2011-12 boats. Or how about the ZFT2 tower or ZFT5 power tower? Lots of problems. Of course you were right about MC being like Microsoft, they are just not always the best. Case in point: Windows 8, Zune mp3 player, Surface tablet, SPOT watch, Microsoft KIN mobile phone, Windows XP tablet, UltimateTV DVR...what did i miss? :D Don't get me wrong, I love my MC but I guess I didn't drink the kool-aid.

For us IT people you missed Windows ME and Windows Vista. Both stinkers shunned by any smart customer and any IT consultant worth a hoot.

wakecumberland
07-31-2013, 11:33 AM
^ I knew I left out something :toast:

Goinbroke
07-31-2013, 12:13 PM
OMG...really,
Are we debating a comparison between Microsoft and Mastercraft ?

Ya, these two companies are identical.........

good times!

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 12:22 PM
Glad you didn't take it to hard wakecumberland. Re reading my post it was a bit harsh. Sorry.

I don't drink kool-aid, But Steve-o sure does serve it up for the sheeple to lap it up.

Here are the number one topics on a MAC forum:
- Login screen stuck
- LowercaSe "S" key not working!!!
- Menu bar keeps flashing
- I can't drag and drop

"Stupid user base aside, I will never own a Mac. It's not so much that I'm a PC loyalist. I'm not. It's that I'm not stylish enough to own one. Most iPod commercials feature guys with long hair, chicks roller skating, and guys wearing fedoras. I have dandruff, and I buy most of my jeans from a grocery store. I feel like in order to have a Mac, I need to be:
An artist.
In a band.
Unemployed (see above)."

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 12:26 PM
OMG...really,
Are we debating a comparison between Microsoft and Mastercraft ?

Ya, these two companies are identical.........

good times!

As a comparison of quality product, yes it is identical in theory. But simple minds make harder work. Not expecting everyone to get it. And then it turned into a debate.

501s
07-31-2013, 12:58 PM
It seems like these days, all anyone does on the forums is "bash" the new technology on boats, especially those with older boats. As mentioned above, an 18 year boat is very different than a 2013.

The new 2013 systems function great. I am totally happy with my new boat and the electronics. When it's my turn to ride, I choose "max wake". That's it. Ballast, speed, and plate are set up just how I like it and the auto launch feature is awesome. If I want to, I can still fill my tanks with an old fashion toggle switch too.

As for the "Mac" hating, I find it comical. I have an IT background and spent 20 years using PC's but try an Iphone or Ipad out for a week or 2 and come back and say they are only for "artists". These are amazing devices and offer a lot of features. The next time we are boating and my iphone automatically adjusts the volume based on our speed from an app that cost $.99, I won't be thinking "I just drank the Apple kool aid".

willyt
07-31-2013, 01:12 PM
Stick with MC. They are like Microsoft, usually last to the market, but always better than the rest and done right the first time when they get there.



wow...

I don't find this to be true at all. Last to market? the MC of old introduced the 2003 Xstar. I wish i was paying attention to wakeboarding then, but that boat had to blow everyone away. the 230 didnt exist back then, and the VLX isnt what it is today, that boat had no competition when it was introduced. first to market, and they nailed the wake.

fast forward a few years... they tried to be first to market again with the... 2012? xstar. yeah... that went well. Just like windows vista. I'm still waiting on a set behind one but i'm hoping the 2013 star is like windows 7...

As i company i definitely would not want to be compared to microsoft.

chriscraftmatt1976
07-31-2013, 01:39 PM
Glad you didn't take it to hard wakecumberland. Re reading my post it was a bit harsh. Sorry.

I don't drink kool-aid, But Steve-o sure does serve it up for the sheeple to lap it up.

Here are the number one topics on a MAC forum:
- Login screen stuck
- LowercaSe "S" key not working!!!
- Menu bar keeps flashing
- I can't drag and drop

"Stupid user base aside, I will never own a Mac. It's not so much that I'm a PC loyalist. I'm not. It's that I'm not stylish enough to own one. Most iPod commercials feature guys with long hair, chicks roller skating, and guys wearing fedoras. I have dandruff, and I buy most of my jeans from a grocery store. I feel like in order to have a Mac, I need to be:
An artist.
In a band.
Unemployed (see above)."


Man, I'm a mac guy of old. I have a Pc laptop that I use for work, but I do a lot of music recording, and a pc suks for that. I can use either, but I definitely prefer a mac. Pc is a good business machine, but mac kills it in multimedia.

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 01:40 PM
wow...

I don't find this to be true at all. Last to market? the MC of old introduced the 2003 Xstar. I wish i was paying attention to wakeboarding then, but that boat had to blow everyone away. the 230 didnt exist back then, and the VLX isnt what it is today, that boat had no competition when it was introduced. first to market, and they nailed the wake.

fast forward a few years... they tried to be first to market again with the... 2012? xstar. yeah... that went well. Just like windows vista. I'm still waiting on a set behind one but i'm hoping the 2013 star is like windows 7...

As i company i definitely would not want to be compared to microsoft.


It was clearly a bad comparison if yo look at it subjectively. But objectively I just meant it by quality of goods and changes to meet the ever changing sports on water. However, Microsoft and MC were very early pioneers of their respective industries and successful ones at that. They are both the biggest, the first and the last. Is all I mean't by it.

If you get into squishy details it all gets lost.

I think we all can agree all others beneath either company are in the shadow of the latter.

Oh F'in'A This is great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JixbzFjv_cU

And everyone is right, for media I will agree MAC has got PC licked. But mac would fall short in every area for my business.

AlbertaSurfer
07-31-2013, 01:48 PM
Microsoft comparison aside, getting back to where MasterCraft is heading, I can't say I'm a fan. Happy for people who own new boats and are pumped on them, but I can't stand the pickefork. I couldn't see myself buying a MasterCraft newer than maybe 2002. They're too smack you in the face, look at all the billet, see how bright the orange is etc for this cat. I grew up skiing behind MasterCrafts, and wakeboarding behind Nautiques. It comes down to personal preference, and my next boat will be a Nautique 230 for sure. Don't get me wrong, I love MasterCraft, and I'm sure the new ones perform great, I just don't think I own enough white sunglasses and basketball jerseys to have one.

Eagle
07-31-2013, 01:53 PM
I didn't mean to spark a debate about Microsoft, especially since I'm a former Microsoft employee :)

Over the past few years, surfing has really taken off and gone mainstream in water sports. I talk to the owner of my local water sports gear shop, and he says that what he's selling the most of these days are wakesurf boards. That is, after tubes, which is the shops' bread and butter; they really don't sell that many wakeboards or water skis anymore -- it's tubes and wakesurf boards (and ballast bags for surfing).

I talk to the local boat dealers, and what people are coming in to buy are boats for wake surfing. Look at the positioning of the X-46: Mastercraft's best wakesurf boat. And a big part of the X-30 sell is surfing.

Centurion has really ridden the surfing wave. When someone wants to buy the "best" surf boat, consensus is the Enzo. Say whatever else you want about Centurion, when the talk among friends who don't have their owner's goggles on turns to surf boats, everyone bows down to the Enzo.

The innovations Nautique and Malibu have added? Surf systems. Same with Centurion.

So if you're in the market to buy a boat for surfing (and obviously people are -- exhibit A, the X-46), and you're shopping the big 3 (and maybe Centurion), it would seem that MC is at a real competitive disadvantage now. The surf systems are a very easy sell, and the lack something easy to sell against.

I know what a pain it is to shift from port to starboard surf wake on my X-25, and I'd love to be able to just push a switch and have it take seconds.

So I'm hoping MC does have a system in the works. I would imagine both Nautique and Malibu have protected theirs with patents, so maybe that's the hold up for MC.

I'm thinking of buying a new X-25 in the next year or two to replace my 2011 X-25. I've not had any serious issues with my X-25 though the BIG is a little flaky at times. The biggest complaint I have is that the dashboard cowl sits very high and makes it tough to see. The new dashes are much better. And I have the Indmar 5.7, which is fine for wakeboarding and surfing, but when I really sack out with PnP for boarding, I could use a bit more power.

But I want to wait till MC has a surf system before I go for a new X-25. The lack of one makes me think about another brand, like a G23.

JMLVMI
07-31-2013, 02:00 PM
One thing I'll say about all of these new systems is that it's one more thing that will break, and none of the manufacturers care about boats >5 years old. For me (and those of us exclusively on the used market) the more touch screens, tabs, electronics, pumps, etc. something has, the less I want it.

I hope MC doesn't go to LCDs on the new ski boat, or at least make it an option like the SN200 (has the big honking screen or two analog gauges).

Mossyrocks
07-31-2013, 02:09 PM
My rant was directed towards big problems and the earlier centurion post about the wake tuning. I do love the new boats but damn, what a price. My thought on the mc surf system problem is patenting. Tiges' new system looks pretty good too, saves you from having to modify your swim platform as well. My goal in life right now is to simultaneously try to have a kid and work towards an x30 or 46. Leaning more towards the 46, figured if im gonna pay so much to upgrade from a 2009 x15 i might as well go big.

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 02:48 PM
I don't think anyone has the wake tuning ability down to an ultimate science. As shown in the flyboy article from NWWSA comp last week. If the centurion reps themselves couldn't make it user friendly enough to use the system in competition with pro's how do they expect the consumer to understand it and change on the fly?

I think that is why MC has been late to this. They don't want another BIG problem. They want to make it and forget it.

Also, remember too, MC's new X46 wave looks to be thrice the size of anything else I have seen with only stock ballast.

Maybe with size of wave you loose functionality abilities. Everyone is marketing versatility in their ability to shape the wave.

No one is marketing monster sized waves but MC. I think MC is still trying to find that fine line.



Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

willyt
07-31-2013, 03:29 PM
They are both the biggest, the first and the last. Is all I mean't by it.

If you get into squishy details it all gets lost.

wrong again... MC is not the largest in terms of sales, or first... malibu has been the largest for awhile now (and hull #1 was based on a CC model). Maybe marketing 'monster' waves is a slight tweak on whats out there, but there have been plenty of boat manufacturers advertising surfing for awhile now.

They're too smack you in the face, look at all the billet, see how bright the orange is etc for this cat. I grew up skiing behind MasterCrafts, and wakeboarding behind Nautiques. It comes down to personal preference, and my next boat will be a Nautique 230 for sure. Don't get me wrong, I love MasterCraft, and I'm sure the new ones perform great, I just don't think I own enough white sunglasses and basketball jerseys to have one.

Sorry, not buying an MC because of all the bling is as stupid as buying an MC for all the bling. The fit and finish certainly adds a nice touch to the boats, but it should come down to on the water performance. I hope you like riding at 24.7 mph at 82.5 feet behind the boat. (btw since when is a 230 not a blingy boat?!?!). Also, i think they make MCs in other colors than orange. I own an xstar because i freaking love the wake behind it... the fact that its one of the sexiest wake making machines on the market is certainly a plus, but not the reason i bought it (we wakeboard 99% of the time we're on it).

AlbertaSurfer
07-31-2013, 03:46 PM
You don't have to defend your boat to me WillyT. I'm glad you like it. I'm aware other colors are available, but other bow designs are not. And the 230 is much less "blingy" in terms of overall look. I wouldn't buy a brand new boat, I'm referring to maybe a 2009 230. I'd rather let someone else eat the massive depreciation.

I wakeboard 90% of the time too, if not, then it's surfing. I prefer the Nautique wake over the XStar. Stats can't prove that wrong, I simply prefer it. If you prefer the XStar, then I'm happy that's the boat you bought, and glad you're stoked on it.

chriscraftmatt1976
07-31-2013, 03:48 PM
Agreed willyt. 230 is one of the overly blingy and ugliest boats on the water Imo. Nautique makes a great boat, just like mc. If I was going for a nautique, it's gonna be a 210 for sure. Those babies do all the wake sports justice. I'll be sticking to the older closed bow boats though. I'll let the youngsters with more forgiving bodies take over where I left off. Tired of injuries trying rad stuffs...

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 03:49 PM
wrong again... MC is not the largest in terms of sales, or first... malibu has been the largest for awhile now (and hull #1 was based on a CC model). Maybe marketing 'monster' waves is a slight tweak on whats out there, but there have been plenty of boat manufacturers advertising surfing for awhile now.

Same with MC, so yes again you are wrong, my analogy is closer in comparison than everyone made it out to be. Just because there were boats before MC doesn't mean we owe the origin of the sport of boating to Noah's Ark does it? Do I have to explain word record towboat ... I don't think so.

Advertising surfing and advertising surfing adjustment abilities are two completely different approaches to marketing. One is saying "you can change it to your liking" the other is saying "Ours is the best in size and shape even though it takes 10 minutes to fill it up."

Then commoners look at Tige, Centurion and Malibu's latest storm marketing their abilities to switch sides and tweak the wake with ease has created discontent with MC. Having nothing even though your wave is the best makes you look like you have nothing to offer that others do for cheaper. Win for them. However, I think MC has stuck with this fine line of advertising quality and sheer size abilities for surfing through stock ballast that any Enzo out there would have to be slammed to make.

Of course this is all a rider preference. But after seeing the stock wave photos from the X46. Nothing compares to that with stock ballast. Nothing.

chriscraftmatt1976
07-31-2013, 03:54 PM
And I'll agree with Alberta Surfer on the pickle fork bows, not a fan. But then you say that's why you want a 230?!?!?! That Deck boat looking bow may be the only thing that would make me long for a pf bow! Talk about ugly! There's two of those on my lake, and I cringe every time they pull their tubers by with the ballast full. Some people have more money than brains I guess! :)

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 03:59 PM
And I'll agree with Alberta Surfer on the pickle fork bows, not a fan. But then you say that's why you want a 230?!?!?! That Deck boat looking bow may be the only thing that would make me long for a pf bow! Talk about ugly! There's two of those on my lake, and I cringe every time they pull their tubers by with the ballast full. Some people have more money than brains I guess! :)

Oh doesn't that make no sense. I have seen people pulling tubes with full ballast too.

As well, the PF looks horrible. I love the room it adds to the bow but hate how it looks. Although if that was all that was offered I would buy one in the future as I'm sure if I held onto that need for the "old" look forever I would not be driving newer trucks etc etc. Gotta go along to get along you know?

Mastercraft13
07-31-2013, 04:13 PM
Just get out and test them out, all the manufacturers will claim latest and greatest. I have been behind many different brands of boats and they all have their unique bells and whistles and all very different distinct wakes. It just comes down to personal preference on the wake and what system you want to deal with in the boat to make that wake. I chose a MC because I like the wake the best, now my buddy that owns a CC his wake is the best for HIM and the other that owns a centurion his wake is the best for HIM. If a boat catches your eye go to a dealer or pull up to the boat out in the lake and ask for a quick pull, I have never been turned down by anyone to see/ride their "best" wake.

willyt
07-31-2013, 04:23 PM
I wakeboard 90% of the time too, if not, then it's surfing. I prefer the Nautique wake over the XStar. Stats can't prove that wrong, I simply prefer it. If you prefer the XStar, then I'm happy that's the boat you bought, and glad you're stoked on it.
Wasn't trying to justify my boat, just giving you reason to like a more 'blinged' out boat. glad to hear you're talking on the water performance - if you do like going that fast, i'll agree it makes one heck of a wake then. Can't argue with personal preference (and i do actually like the way a newer 230 looks...)

maybe i just havent drank enough koolaid for this thread

AlbertaSurfer
07-31-2013, 05:12 PM
And I'll agree with Alberta Surfer on the pickle fork bows, not a fan. But then you say that's why you want a 230?!?!?! That Deck boat looking bow may be the only thing that would make me long for a pf bow! Talk about ugly! There's two of those on my lake, and I cringe every time they pull their tubers by with the ballast full. Some people have more money than brains I guess! :)

I think you're thinking of the bow shape of the new G23/ G25. The 230 has the same shape as the 210, which you say you like.

Mossyrocks
07-31-2013, 09:49 PM
Just get out and test them out, all the manufacturers will claim latest and greatest. I have been behind many different brands of boats and they all have their unique bells and whistles and all very different distinct wakes. It just comes down to personal preference on the wake and what system you want to deal with in the boat to make that wake. I chose a MC because I like the wake the best, now my buddy that owns a CC his wake is the best for HIM and the other that owns a centurion his wake is the best for HIM. If a boat catches your eye go to a dealer or pull up to the boat out in the lake and ask for a quick pull, I have never been turned down by anyone to see/ride their "best" wake.

I like this guy. I would also add that dealer proximity is also a factor. I wont buy a tige or centurion because im too far from a dealer should anything go wrong under warranty. Im <30 mins from malibu and mc and our river neighbor owns the mc dealer.

swatguy
07-31-2013, 11:46 PM
I am little late in this one but saying Centurion doesn't have a clue about surf wakes is like saying MC has no clue about Billet Aluminum.

Centurion has been the leader in the surf industry and the benchmark for all other surf boats from the beginning. They have some brand new technology that is being tweaked. It's all brand new. Just because a Centurion rep was on scene doesn't mean he is familiar with how to set up a boat. Again all brand new technology that most have never experienced. It's all trial by fire.

To say MC didn't have this is absurd. Need I bring up the 2012 X Star threads and computer issues. The tower mishaps . The first two tour stops with the new 13 Star MC had some wake issues as well. Please don't be blinded by being an owner. MC does not lead the industry in sales either. Malibu does. Before all the brand new options were offered on the new Centurion, its surf wave blew anything MC had to offer out of the water. Hell their original 22ft Surf boat that hasnt had a hull change in 10 yrs (the Avalanche )still edges out almost any MC. I can't compare it to a brand new 13 X30 as I have not had any direct experience , but it beat out every other rig. MC has had way more rushes to design and patch jobs then Centurion has over the past 7 years. This is fact.

bamabonners
07-31-2013, 11:56 PM
No maker has a perfect track record. Lighten up folks, it is just a boat!

rodltg2
07-31-2013, 11:58 PM
I've experienced the NSS first hand on the G23 and its legit. The MC nerdgineers have their work cut out for them if they want to complete against this. The system is clean , works and in no way looks like an add on or after thought.

sand2snow22
08-01-2013, 12:54 AM
From MC press release: MasterCraft, whose product strategy will deliver 2 to 3 new or refreshed boats per year, has already introduced the XStar, X10 and X46 in the last 14 months. And with plans to unveil its new ski boat in a few weeks followed by what can only be described as a jaw-dropping product announcement in the spring of 2014.

chriscraftmatt1976
08-01-2013, 08:59 AM
I think you're thinking of the bow shape of the new G23/ G25. The 230 has the same shape as the 210, which you say you like.

I was thinking of the g, my bad. As I said, I will give it up to nautique on the wakes. If you like um steep, they're tough to beat. I'd be proud to own any of the big three, all good boats.

willyt
08-01-2013, 09:30 AM
followed by what can only be described as a jaw-dropping product announcement in the spring of 2014.

.... do tell

Bambamski1
08-01-2013, 09:41 AM
Surfing Gimmicks that work ok but they aren't game changers, they're not the end all be all. I laugh at the overall marketing to the general wally public that eats it up and can't actually think for themselves.

Surfgates works great, don't get me wrong. BUT you still have to weight the freaken boat. NOthing works better then old fashioned ballast. BLah blah blah all you have to do is fill all the ballast tanks and deploy the surfgate, surf tabs or what ever gimmick your boat has. Wally that just finished pulling the tube for the past three hours, that's what the sales guy told him so that's all he does. Sure he can surf for 23 seconds now without the rope but really? If you want a real surf wake you load the %&&&*& out of one side of the boat and you deply the gate, or tabs or what ever you have and you have a kick arse surf wake.

One would think if you're on a forum such as this cough cough EAGLE cough cough you wouldn't get the blatant stupidity of most boat owners out there that don't have a clue on how to build a propper wake. They just do what the sales guy told them....

All these systems work, they do a great job of cleaning up the surfwakes but come on, are you really that gullable?

chriscraftmatt1976
08-01-2013, 10:36 AM
Some of the raddest stuff I ever pulled was behind a nautique 176 with a few fat sacks in it. You don't need 100k boat to surf. Now to TUBE properly, of course! :)

dlamont
08-01-2013, 11:48 AM
I've personally surfed the G25 with NSS and the VLX & LSV with Surfgate and I would call them game changers. The G25 was just stock ballast and the Malibus we added about 800-1000lbs extra. All three boats were perfectly level while surfing, people could sit where ever they wanted and it had minor effect on the wake, we could switch from wakeboarding to surfing left or right instantly.
For example the G25 session took about an hour with four guys. Two regular surfers, one goofy surfer and one wakeboarder. This would have taken twice as long in a current MC.
All three boats put out great wakes for surfing and wakeboarding.
Would I buy a G25 or Malibu over an MC? No, because the X25 is still my favorite boat on the market and surfing isn't that important to me, but it is to the majority of inboard boat buyers these days.

MC will come up with something to compete with NSS and Surfgate. I can't think of another "gimmick" since ballast and perfect pass that has changed the way people use their boats as much as these new surf systems will.

Bambamski1
08-01-2013, 11:55 AM
dlamont so you're telling me that loading one side of the BU vs evenly weighted doesn't make it better? Cause I cerntainly noticed a HUGE difference.

dlamont
08-01-2013, 12:25 PM
Honestly, not really sure if adding more weight to one side would be better. I simply liked the ability to switch from one side to the other instantly, try crossing the wake, not feeling like the boat is going to roll over, and not having to sit all on one side. It just makes surfing faster and much more comfortable. I could still surf 15' behind the boat, do 360s and surf for as long as I wanted. Of the three the G25 was the most impressive.

Bambamski1
08-01-2013, 05:08 PM
don't have any experience behind thhe G25. I guess I see no value in crossing the wake ever so I guess that doesn't really matter for me. I do agree it's a bit of a pain moving people around.

I have surf tabs which are pretty instant and my ballast takes 6 minutes. Part of being on the lake is just to have fun and chill out. Sit and float, go for a ride, sit and chill. My kids/wife/friends, god, that takes them at least 6 minutes before another person gets in the water to ride! I don't think the whole "instant" change would be a selling point for me. I can see it sounding good when you're at the boat show and talking to someone that's never boated or a complete newbie. Real life for me i can't see it making any difference.

Eagle
08-02-2013, 12:20 PM
You may not want to cross the wakes but do ever surf with both goofy and regular riders?

Do you have to have perfect pass to water ski, wakeboard, or surf? Heck no. Maybe you think it's a gimmick but it sure makes it convenient.

I haven't personally used one of the surf systems yet. But I have friends, experienced boaters not gullible wallies as you put it, who have, including dlamont :) And they all rave about the systems.

I bought my X-25 for the wakeboard wake. I wakeboard on it 99% of the time. We usually go in the morning before work, and every minute setting up matters. If it were easier to set up for surfing (for both goofy and regular riders), I might surf more.

Given that people are buying inboards these days to surf, more than skiing or wakeboarding, I hope MC has a system coming out.

Iskidaily
08-02-2013, 12:54 PM
Dang. Was hoping to learn something about innovation on MC's. Ram fill and gravity fill sound great to me. time saving and also gas saving. We have all different levels of riders and so the big boats (new x-star, G23, G25 even X25) are great for intermediate to expert riders but all tough for the young ones to learn and progress on with wakes that are too big and washy for smaller / slower riders to get confident on wake jumps.

Maybe a surf system, tabs or a combination could deliver a great flexible wake for multiple rider levels and different activities with a lighter boat for better gas consumption and maybe even a wake that I could tolerate for slalom. And if the boat filled up after it got on plane, we could avoid the expensive engine upgrade that is required for a hole shot with a couple tons of ballast.

just my $.02

rkhodges21
08-02-2013, 01:56 PM
I have been wondering about Xstar surf wakes. I was always under the impression that a star will not make a good wake for surfing, but I thought I had seen a video by MC about setting up the Xstar for surfing but now I can't find it. I also just saw a pic on MCs FB page of a person getting air on the goofy wake of a star, but from the comments, it appears no one else can seem to get their stars to make a clean wake like that on either side, and all the OP will say is that they did not have a sac under any of the seats. So can an Xstar make a decent surf wake or not?

sand2snow22
08-02-2013, 04:57 PM
.... do tell

That's all I know, from the press release hire of new VP. My guess is that it is surf related.??> Maybe a surf specific boat, kind of like the X-Star is a wakeboard specific boat?...

Nick911
08-05-2013, 12:42 AM
I'd really like to see a system come out similar to NSS or Surfgate. After having 90 hours so far this summer and spending a ton of time switching sides for surfers I'd say a lack of a convenient system will be a deal breaker for me in 3-4 years when I upgrade.

Tri4X2
08-05-2013, 05:13 PM
I have been wondering about Xstar surf wakes. I was always under the impression that a star will not make a good wake for surfing, but I thought I had seen a video by MC about setting up the Xstar for surfing but now I can't find it. I also just saw a pic on MCs FB page of a person getting air on the goofy wake of a star, but from the comments, it appears no one else can seem to get their stars to make a clean wake like that on either side, and all the OP will say is that they did not have a sac under any of the seats. So can an Xstar make a decent surf wake or not?

X-Stars DO NOT surf well at all. Washed out and no push from my experience. Probably that huge box that hangs off the back on the transom

FourFourty
08-05-2013, 06:05 PM
X-Stars DO NOT surf well at all. Washed out and no push from my experience. Probably that huge box that hangs off the back on the transom

Last gen was not that good for surfing.

New Star surfs very well. Not quite as nice as the X30 that I also ride, but every bit as good as the X25 I had. I was very surprised. Goofy side took a little bit of figuring, but we finally got it nailed down. Needed more weight in the bow, and attitude plate down 20%.

It is not the cleanest surf wake in the world, but has more push than any boat I have ever been behind. I am now riding a 4'2" LF Custom most of the time. I cant even keep up with my buddies X30 or G23 on that board. I have to ride the 4'8" Custom. I am good on the 4'8", but the 4'2" is definitely more nimble. The 30 and G maintain a cleaner lip, further back. Although, I never feel a difference riding in the slightly washed section of the XStar wave. Still has great push back there.

Disclaimer- I have never been behind a centurion, or supreme, which I know have incredible surf waves. I do ride behind a G23, an X30, a Moomba LSV, and a 24 MXZ. The Moomba is the only surf wave that we don't care for.

Traxx822
08-05-2013, 06:58 PM
Lastly, the wave does not push you. It's not like the froth builds up behind you and pushes your board does it?

The wave lifts you. It lifts you people. It does not come up from behind you, grab your shoulders and shove you, push you, pull you .. nope. .. it only lifts you.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Traxx822
08-05-2013, 06:59 PM
Lastly, the wave does not push you. It's not like the froth builds up behind you and pushes your board does it?

The wave lifts you. It lifts you people. It does not come up from behind you, grab your shoulders and shove you, push you, pull you .. nope. .. it only lifts you.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

The sooner people realize this the sooner they will realize the foam at the top of their big a$$ x star wave doesn't seem to affect them besides what the wave looks like. The wave lifts just fine and you get plenty of pocket to play in.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

AlbertaSurfer
08-05-2013, 07:48 PM
Word Bird, Traxx822 is right

I can surf behind my 1999 XStar just fine. If I can make the 205V hull surfable, then I fail to understand how the newer, deeper Stars don't work. Sure, my wave is short, but more weight in the bow helps. Once you get in the Green Room, there's enough room to move around play, and it's steep.

Is the X-46 better than my old XStar? Of course... but I don't get how that makes the newer gen Stars "crappy"

FourFourty
08-06-2013, 09:25 AM
Is the X-46 better than my old XStar? Of course... but I don't get how that makes the newer gen Stars "crappy"

It doesn't. I know there was a lot of complaints on the surf wake of the last gen XStar, more so on the goofy wake. However I have never surfed one. All I know, is the latest gen XStar is one of my favorite surf wakes so far. I am really jealous of the G23s ease of setup with NSS..... But I am pretty sure MC will have something to make me feel better soon. :fingerscrossed:

rkhodges21
08-06-2013, 11:00 AM
What is the price difference between an Xstar and X-46?

Tri4X2
08-06-2013, 12:37 PM
[QUOTE=FourFourty;964268]Last gen was not that good for surfing.

Sorry about that... forgot to say that I had never surfed behind the latest Star

Tri4X2
08-06-2013, 12:39 PM
Lastly, the wave does not push you. It's not like the froth builds up behind you and pushes your board does it?

The wave lifts you. It lifts you people. It does not come up from behind you, grab your shoulders and shove you, push you, pull you .. nope. .. it only lifts you.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

So are you talking vertical lift or horizontal propulsion? I would tend to disagree with you a tad $0.02

501s
08-06-2013, 01:37 PM
Arguing about the definition of the waves "push" is kinda funny. I won't join in but I will say that on my 30, staying on the wave is much easier than any other boat I've been on and often if you don't lean back, the wave "pushes" you into the back of the boat. I can't even use my inland server blue lake anymore because I almost have to fight the wave from pushing me onto the platform and it's just too easy to stay on the wave.

FourFourty
08-06-2013, 01:37 PM
What is the price difference between an Xstar and X-46?

I think the XStar base price is about 20k higher. However, the XStar comes standard with a lot more features. If you load them both up, the XStar will be about 5-10k more.


Tri4x2- No prob :toast:

rkhodges21
08-06-2013, 01:54 PM
I think the XStar base price is about 20k higher. However, the XStar comes standard with a lot more features. If you load them both up, the XStar will be about 5-10k more.


So for someone who is not a pro level boarder and plans to surf a lot, then the X46 is the better option all around?

AlbertaSurfer
08-06-2013, 02:07 PM
So are you talking vertical lift or horizontal propulsion? I would tend to disagree with you a tad $0.02

Think about what the wave is doing. It's vertical lift for sure. You're riding down the face of the wave as it's lifting you up, this is why your front foot speeds you up and your back foot slows you down.

The wave is rising, and taking you with it. While surfing in the ocean and behind a boat are in most aspects different, the basic mechanics are the same. Try letting a frothy lip hit you and see how much you're "pushed". You need to get into the wave face, that's constantly rising up into the lip. Slow down, and you're going over the falls.

AlbertaSurfer
08-06-2013, 02:10 PM
Arguing about the definition of the waves "push" is kinda funny. I won't join in but I will say that on my 30, staying on the wave is much easier than any other boat I've been on and often if you don't lean back, the wave "pushes" you into the back of the boat. I can't even use my inland server blue lake anymore because I almost have to fight the wave from pushing me onto the platform and it's just too easy to stay on the wave.

It's not pushing you, you're generating speed down the line and travelling faster than the boat, so you catch it.

Nick911
08-06-2013, 02:27 PM
Arguing about the definition of the waves "push" is kinda funny. I won't join in but I will say that on my 30, staying on the wave is much easier than any other boat I've been on and often if you don't lean back, the wave "pushes" you into the back of the boat. I can't even use my inland server blue lake anymore because I almost have to fight the wave from pushing me onto the platform and it's just too easy to stay on the wave.

Same: I bought a 5'6" Ronix Koal for newbies and when I try it I have to constantly lean back and fight to stay off back of boat. I can ride way back in the whitewash with it and it keeps me behind boat.

Kimper
08-06-2013, 02:46 PM
Same: I bought a 5'6" Ronix Koal for newbies and when I try it I have to constantly lean back and fight to stay off back of boat. I can ride way back in the whitewash with it and it keeps me behind boat.

If you guys have to fight to not hit back of boat you need to increase boat speed. Boat speed required changes with wind, choppy water, weight of surfer, weight in boat, and board used.
Every time I get behind the boat I ask the driver to adjust the speed up or down until I can stand with equal weight distribution on front and back leg and basically match the boat speed in a neutral stance. Then you are ready to play!

FourFourty
08-06-2013, 02:49 PM
So for someone who is not a pro level boarder and plans to surf a lot, then the X46 is the better option all around?

I would say it probably is, although I have yet to surf an X46, and I have no complaints on the surf wave on the new Star..... Except that we need a surf system!! :D

The 46 is roomier, and probably better suited for most. Pretty sure the XStar has quite a bit more storage though. Mostly because of the huge lockers. I put my boards in there, and I have never had a boat that I could do that with.

Being as the 46 is cheaper, I would tend to answer yes to your question. They are completely different animals though.

Tri4X2
08-06-2013, 02:56 PM
So for someone who is not a pro level boarder and plans to surf a lot, then the X46 is the better option all around?

Personally... I would save money and go with the X30. I took out the 46 this weekend and loved/hated it. the talk.. and original post had to do with a "Surf System". What I am being told is this... if you like to surf and you use the boat primarily for surfing, then you should wait to buy anything until spring of 14.

I personally am in the market for a bigger boat so I have looked at the 46 and the 30. The 46 is just massive. Its a great boat if you normally have 8-12 people on the boat ALL the time. What I did find was that you need to Sac that puppy out to get a comparable wave to the 30. The 30 needs little wave to get a great surf wake while the 46 need total factory plus a few grand. We added the same fat sacs I use for my X2 (Two Locker bags) and people in the boat, and I can honestly say that my x2 surfed better that day.

I will be interested in seeing what MC has to say come the spring. Again like I said, I'm in the market but after testing out the 46..... I'll wait.

MattsCraft
08-06-2013, 03:05 PM
I really don't know all the semantics but my Son who is about as good a wake surfer that I have seen will ask for more "Push" his meaning is he needs a little less speed or a bit taller wave, which tells me to give him less "down" tab or to slow down slightly. If he is doing 360's etc. he will prefer a bit more tab for a longer wave, pops etc. he likes a taller/shorter wave with lots of push. For me anyway, I know what kind of curl/how much, which is much easier to get set up without the surfer in the water or on the other side to tune. It is a bit different every outing due to water depth, number of people/placement etc.

For him, he will just surf to the opposite side with the rope, I tune a bit then he shreds sans rope all day long. By the way, he can surf regular or goofy on either side of the wave.:D

Nick911
08-06-2013, 03:33 PM
If you guys have to fight to not hit back of boat you need to increase boat speed. Boat speed required changes with wind, choppy water, weight of surfer, weight in boat, and board used.
Every time I get behind the boat I ask the driver to adjust the speed up or down until I can stand with equal weight distribution on front and back leg and basically match the boat speed in a neutral stance. Then you are ready to play!

Good point. I ran the same speed as I would surfing my Phase 5 skim. I run 11.2-11.6 Zero Off depending on how many people in boat starboard, and port 11.0-11.4. As our boat has been mostly full this summer. Have only been running stock plus 450's in rear.

chriscraftmatt1976
08-06-2013, 03:42 PM
If you guys have to fight to not hit back of boat you need to increase boat speed. Boat speed required changes with wind, choppy water, weight of surfer, weight in boat, and board used.
Every time I get behind the boat I ask the driver to adjust the speed up or down until I can stand with equal weight distribution on front and back leg and basically match the boat speed in a neutral stance. Then you are ready to play!

Don't forget depth. Nothing crushes a wake worse, and it doesn't have to be bottom. A big clump of weeks 5 ft from the surface will destroy a wake.

Eagle
08-07-2013, 09:24 PM
For what it's worth, I saw the following posted on Wakeworld this afternoon.

Craig Emerton (craigtxmc) Today, 3:19 PM
Andrew, just a bit of FYI... we got word yesterday that MC was going to offer a plumbed in surf package starting in a few weeks. Waiting on specs but should make it easier to tune wave.. I'll try to get information for you guys when i see it.

Mossyrocks
08-07-2013, 10:29 PM
I just saw that also. I just went out on a 46 and im interested to see more on this.

AlbertaSurfer
08-07-2013, 11:41 PM
I ran all the thru-hulls for my ballast through the bottom of my hull. I can effectively fill and drain "on the fly" to tune at surf speeds. Sure, at wakeboard speeds there's too much cavitation to draw enough water for the pumps to work, but surf speeds are not an issue. I can fill or drain to tune while the rider finds the pocket. Works pretty well.

Gunford
10-18-2013, 06:00 PM
Has anyone heard anything on this? Dealer has been telling me for 6 weeks that he should be able to tell me more in a few weeks?

skitilldark
10-18-2013, 06:09 PM
Really? MC doesn't always get it right the first time. Ask owners of boats with the BIG system on 2011-12 boats. Or how about the ZFT2 tower or ZFT5 power tower? Lots of problems. Of course you were right about MC being like Microsoft, they are just not always the best. Case in point: Windows 8, Zune mp3 player, Surface tablet, SPOT watch, Microsoft KIN mobile phone, Windows XP tablet, UltimateTV DVR...what did i miss? :D Don't get me wrong, I love my MC but I guess I didn't drink the kool-aid.

Admittedly I'm a MC nut, but I think it must very very hard to try and be on the leading edge of innovation when you make so few boats per year. I would think MC would follow Malibu's lead
(did I just say that?) and have several plants that build more boats. More units should bring more revenue to put into better innovation. That said, frankly, I tip my hat to what they HAVE been able to pull off with the few boats they build. I still think they "feel" the best of all the ones I've driven out there. Just my opinion...

kalamalka
10-18-2013, 08:19 PM
ask anyone whos surfed all the nss boats and theyll tell you that the 210 has the nicest wave to surf. its changes to steep fom long with nss better than any of the bu or nautique hulls.

Nick911
10-18-2013, 08:38 PM
Dealer I talked to when I was looking at the 230 says the 230 destroys the 210 surf-wise.

kalamalka
10-18-2013, 09:34 PM
test drove them both. 2014 210 surfed better. who was the dealer? before the hull change this year i would agree, but the new hull is designed to work with nss to surf well and its awesome!

Nick911
10-18-2013, 10:00 PM
Wizard out of Edmonton.

lashburn1
10-18-2013, 11:12 PM
Admittedly I'm a MC nut, but I think it must very very hard to try and be on the leading edge of innovation when you make so few boats per year. I would think MC would follow Malibu's lead
(did I just say that?) and have several plants that build more boats. More units should bring more revenue to put into better innovation. That said, frankly, I tip my hat to what they HAVE been able to pull off with the few boats they build. I still think they "feel" the best of all the ones I've driven out there. Just my opinion...

A few years ago ,,,too many Boats built nearly cost MC their company...
Probably still recovering from that shock....
Ramping up slowly...?

scott023
10-19-2013, 12:22 AM
Wizard out of Edmonton.

They're not in Calmar anymore?

kalamalka
10-19-2013, 01:34 AM
thats very interesting because wizard in kelowna told me the exact opposite, thats why we test drove both. they did offer me a great deal on the 230 though. i spoke with nautique directly after wizard and the told me that the 210 was the way to go for a heavy surfing usage, after testing both, totally agree.

spoke to wizard, but different sales guy after speaking with nautique and he admitted that there was a push to move 230s because the 210s surf so well and cost 10k less.

Aric'sX15
10-19-2013, 02:03 AM
Do yourself a favor, go look at the 14 23 lsv malibus.

AlbertaSurfer
10-19-2013, 02:58 AM
They're not in Calmar anymore?

Wizard is still in Calmar, but after getting the Nautique dealership, they have also opened a shop in Kelowna, like Martin did.

I was bummed to see Ken lose the Nautique dealership back in the late 90's, but I'd have to admit Wizard is moving a lot more boats. Shalom Park is hidden, and not very well advertised,(that's actually where I store my boat), but it's an awesome place, and Ken is the best you'll ever deal with. He's been a Nautique guy from the start, and he helps me more with my '99 Star than Martin MotorSports could ever hope to.

Nick911
10-19-2013, 06:49 AM
thats very interesting because wizard in kelowna told me the exact opposite, thats why we test drove both. they did offer me a great deal on the 230 though. i spoke with nautique directly after wizard and the told me that the 210 was the way to go for a heavy surfing usage, after testing both, totally agree.

spoke to wizard, but different sales guy after speaking with nautique and he admitted that there was a push to move 230s because the 210s surf so well and cost 10k less.

Yes out of Calmar. I guess he could of lied to me. He seemed quite honest however, particularly as he didnt sugar coat his brand. I was looking at the G as well. The sales guys was very knowledgeable. Having had a new boat in 2012 and 2013 he knew I was a serious buyer. He also knew I was comparing to an X25 and he knew the model very well. I was surprised how forthright he was in telling me what the 230 and G did better than the X25 and what they did not.

Some on Planet Nautiqe had said the 230 surfs better as well if I recall, but either way it's highly subjective based on how well the boat is dialed etc...

Either way not enough upside in the Nautique beyond the surf system to make the switch to the 230. The G23 would be a better comparison to the X25.

JRM-at-SML-VA
10-19-2013, 06:49 AM
Hi, I just purchased an X30 with all 3 tabs. We enjoy all type water sports. We've found that with some experimentation, using the tabs and ballast, we get a very nice ski wake - nearly as nice as my brother's 2007 Mastercraft Comp Ski boat (maybe 85% as good). In addition, the X30 gives a great wakeboard wake via the stock tanks. With added bags, the surf wake is also great. We've owned a Nautique and tested the 2014 Nautique 210 and I am a great fan of both Mastercraft and Nautique. I've determined that the new surf plate system on the Nautique makes a monster wake (so much that you must be careful not to swamp the boat when you cut power), however, you may notice that the wake extends more towards the side rather than an elongated wake that is formed by the Mastercraft Surf tab system. Each wake shape has its plus and minus, but I prefer the elongated wake. The disadvantage to the Nautique system is that on the 210 we just couldn't get a decent ski wake. For us, the flexibility is important since we have many different preferences and skill levels for the various water sport activities. For a purist in surf, the Surf Plate System may be more preferable, however, again the length or width of the wake may make a difference to you. As to the Microsoft issue -- well, Microsoft vs Apple usually depends upon how you intend to use the product. Seems like that is the case here with Mastercraft (tab system) or Nautique (plate system). If I had unlimited funds, I would buy them both. Such is life. Grins...

ttu
10-19-2013, 08:43 AM
man I want a x30 so bad. get my son thru college in another 2 years and maybe then!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

FourFourty
10-19-2013, 11:17 AM
Either way not enough upside in the Nautique beyond the surf system to make the switch to the 230. The G23 would be a better comparison to the X25.

Nick- Are you still thinking seriously about switching this year?? I am in the same boat as you. I have no idea what I want to do. I spend a considerable amount of time surfing a G23 and a 210. They are both great surf boats, but, I prefer the surf wake on my boat. I never expected to have such a great wave on a Star, however, I hate not being able to set it up, and change modes in 4 seconds flat.


They keep saying that we will see something soon, but I am getting tired of waiting to find out. I don't know if I should switch for the convenience of NSS, and have a wave that lacks the steepness and push that I love...... Or live with the 15 minute setup time, and pray that MC comes through.


Disclaimer- Me saying that the G and 210 lack the steepness and push, doesn't mean they are not great surf boats. They absolutely are. Nice long, clean, big, waves. They do not have the push of the wave on my boat though, which is a really steep, and fast wave. I like riding a very small board for skim tricks. (4'2" LF custom) I can't ride this board behind a G or a 210. I have tried, and I can't stay with the boat. That is normal though, as the 4'2" custom is designed for somebody 120lbs or less, and I weigh 170lbs.

lashburn1
10-19-2013, 11:29 AM
Do yourself a favor, go look at the 14 23 lsv malibus.

Although we are getting a 2013 X30...I heard , (and saw some video) , that the Surf Wake is quite awesome on the New 2014 LSV 23...
We ended up Choosing X30 for over all Style and Feel, got a Great deal too...


We looked at a lot of the Big 3 boats...and consistently came back to the MC line...
Nothing worth arguing about across the Line Up for our needs, all boat seemed Solid
...but my Wife really liked lines and Interior on the X30....
... I just wanted a nice Boat!! LOL
Cant wait!

Aric'sX15
10-19-2013, 12:42 PM
Top is axis a24 with plug and play.
Bottom is 14 23lsv with plug and play also.

Gunford
10-19-2013, 01:18 PM
We looked at a lot of the Big 3 boats...and consistently came back to the MC line...
Nothing worth arguing about across the Line Up for our needs, all boat seemed Solid
...but my Wife really liked lines and Interior on the X30....
... I just wanted a nice Boat!! LOL
Cant wait!

I was looking at the 230 as well but have ordered an X30 as my wife really liked the lines and storage better. Mine is not in the queue to be built yet but dealer days it will have the new surf system although he can't tell me what that will entail. And it is not the plug and play surf option on the Web now.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

wallnut21
10-19-2013, 03:10 PM
There's a new surf system other than the new Surf Package option?? Please explain?

Gunford
10-19-2013, 03:21 PM
That is all I know. Dealer keeps telling me info soon!?

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

atthelake
10-19-2013, 04:22 PM
I was looking at the 230 as well but have ordered an X30 as my wife really liked the lines and storage better. Mine is not in the queue to be built yet but dealer days it will have the new surf system although he can't tell me what that will entail. And it is not the plug and play surf option on the Web now.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I was told the same thing by MMS in Saskatoon. I'll be ordering a X30 and was told that any 2014's ordered from now would be coming with their "new" surf system. I too was looking at the 230, but wasn't interested in the $10-12K MORE for the Nautique.

scott023
10-19-2013, 04:30 PM
Although we are getting a 2013 X30...I heard , (and saw some video) , that the Surf Wake is quite awesome on the New 2014 LSV 23...
We ended up Choosing X30 for over all Style and Feel, got a Great deal too...


We looked at a lot of the Big 3 boats...and consistently came back to the MC line...
Nothing worth arguing about across the Line Up for our needs, all boat seemed Solid
...but my Wife really liked lines and Interior on the X30....
... I just wanted a nice Boat!! LOL
Cant wait!

Beautiful boat.

Nick911
10-19-2013, 06:39 PM
Do yourself a favor, go look at the 14 23 lsv malibus.

Looked at this boat briefly. Beautiful boat on the water, but the inside is horrendous. Can't comment on surf or wakeboard wake. What I do know is on my lake there are so many of these that I like being unique with my MC.

Gunford
10-19-2013, 06:40 PM
I was told the same thing by MMS in Saskatoon. I'll be ordering a X30 and was told that any 2014's ordered from now would be coming with their "new" surf system. I too was looking at the 230, but wasn't interested in the $10-12K MORE for the Nautique.

Definitely could get the 230 cheaper than the X30 at Wizard Lake but the MC is a nice looking boat IMO.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Nick911
10-19-2013, 06:43 PM
Nick- Are you still thinking seriously about switching this year?? I am in the same boat as you. I have no idea what I want to do. I spend a considerable amount of time surfing a G23 and a 210. They are both great surf boats, but, I prefer the surf wake on my boat. I never expected to have such a great wave on a Star, however, I hate not being able to set it up, and change modes in 4 seconds flat.


They keep saying that we will see something soon, but I am getting tired of waiting to find out. I don't know if I should switch for the convenience of NSS, and have a wave that lacks the steepness and push that I love...... Or live with the 15 minute setup time, and pray that MC comes through.


Disclaimer- Me saying that the G and 210 lack the steepness and push, doesn't mean they are not great surf boats. They absolutely are. Nice long, clean, big, waves. They do not have the push of the wave on my boat though, which is a really steep, and fast wave. I like riding a very small board for skim tricks. (4'2" LF custom) I can't ride this board behind a G or a 210. I have tried, and I can't stay with the boat. That is normal though, as the 4'2" custom is designed for somebody 120lbs or less, and I weigh 170lbs.

Am not thinking of changing anymore. I looked at the 230 and the G23. The 230 lacked the storage, depth, and deep vee, too much to give up for a better and quicker surf wake. I found the fit and finish lacking as well, for example, I like my aluminum glove box with a nice functionning latch, CC's seemed to be a cheap piece of moulded plastic with a cheap latch, little things like that. Plus the ergonomics were horrible. If I were to switch it would be to a G, however, with a 1/2ton pickup truck and a Yukon Denali I don't have the towing capacity for it therefore would need to buy a bigger vehicle to tow it which is not practical considering I'll soon have 3 kids and can't be going back and forth to BC from Alberta every year in a diesel.

I'm eagerly awaiting this new surf system and hopefully it retrofits to the 2013's, otherwise, I'll order another 2014 or 2015 X25.

FourFourty
10-19-2013, 07:44 PM
Am not thinking of changing anymore. I looked at the 230 and the G23. The 230 lacked the storage, depth, and deep vee, too much to give up for a better and quicker surf wake. I found the fit and finish lacking as well, for example, I like my aluminum glove box with a nice functionning latch, CC's seemed to be a cheap piece of moulded plastic with a cheap latch, little things like that. Plus the ergonomics were horrible. If I were to switch it would be to a G, however, with a 1/2ton pickup truck and a Yukon Denali I don't have the towing capacity for it therefore would need to buy a bigger vehicle to tow it which is not practical considering I'll soon have 3 kids and can't be going back and forth to BC from Alberta every year in a diesel.

I'm eagerly awaiting this new surf system and hopefully it retrofits to the 2013's, otherwise, I'll order another 2014 or 2015 X25.


For what its worth, I tow my XStar with a Raptor..... Which has a lower rated rear suspension than an average 1/2 ton pickup. It tows it fine, and I think the Star weighs about the same as the G. That being said, I only have to tow it about 4 times a year, and only about 30 miles. It is a very hilly route though.

Jonb1822
10-19-2013, 07:54 PM
There's a new surf system other than the new Surf Package option?? Please explain?

I'm not trying to muddy the water, but I asked my dealer about this today and he stated there has been confusion that the new surf package might be a new surfing technology. He said the surf package is the only new change that is coming. (So nothing new) take it for what it's worth.

Aric'sX15
10-19-2013, 08:04 PM
For what its worth, I tow my XStar with a Raptor..... Which has a lower rated rear suspension than an average 1/2 ton pickup. It tows it fine, and I think the Star weighs about the same as the G. That being said, I only have to tow it about 4 times a year, and only about 30 miles. It is a very hilly route though.

Isnt your raptor supercharged??? Lol

wallnut21
10-19-2013, 08:16 PM
I had my dealer build an x30 for me about a month ago and he didn't say anything about it. The Surf package is new for 2014 so I'd be surprised if they're releasing anything else. I'd love it if they did but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Nick911
10-19-2013, 08:49 PM
For what its worth, I tow my XStar with a Raptor..... Which has a lower rated rear suspension than an average 1/2 ton pickup. It tows it fine, and I think the Star weighs about the same as the G. That being said, I only have to tow it about 4 times a year, and only about 30 miles. It is a very hilly route though.

I tow about 1000 miles each way through a mountain pass once or twice a year not to mention another 1000 miles or to and from my dealer for winterization and storage. While going through mountains I'm also packed for a months vacation. I'm looking at the new 2015 Yukon's when they come out. I see their tow rating is still at 7900 lbs.

mcLove
10-20-2013, 01:16 AM
I tow about 1000 miles each way through a mountain pass once or twice a year not to mention another 1000 miles or to and from my dealer for winterization and storage. While going through mountains I'm also packed for a months vacation. I'm looking at the new 2015 Yukon's when they come out. I see their tow rating is still at 7900 lbs.
The 2015 Yukons look horrible in my opinion. I know they are the same as Escalade and Chevy, but it looks "girly". IMO the chevy and Escalade look way better.

sand2snow22
10-20-2013, 01:22 AM
The 2015 Yukons look horrible in my opinion. I know they are the same as Escalade and Chevy, but it looks "girly". IMO the chevy and Escalade look way better.

What are you talking about? Dead sexy...

kalamalka
10-20-2013, 01:46 AM
was told today by a dealer that the new mc surf system is simply a surf package. tabs, with piggy back ballast options as well as some extra surf racks that attatch to tower separately.

atthelake
10-20-2013, 02:04 AM
Definitely could get the 230 cheaper than the X30 at Wizard Lake but the MC is a nice looking boat IMO.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I was wondering about that. I checked at SWS only. Pretty much a two hour further drive to Wizard Lake for me. I could barely believe it myself. I was thinking the 230 would have to be $10K cheaper before I switched brands.

atthelake
10-20-2013, 02:07 AM
What are you talking about? Dead sexy...

I agree. I'm getting a little anxious waiiting for my new GMC company truck to come in.

sand2snow22
10-20-2013, 02:22 AM
Another. I like the caddie too

Nick911
10-20-2013, 06:45 AM
I like the caddy too buy my local dealer here doesn't sell or service them. 5 hour drive to nearest caddy dealer.

The only only pieces of steel that match GM's specs which include auto rear levelling, lots of room, lots of power, and high tow rating are Infinity QX56 (too ugly) and Toyota Sequoia Platinum (too cheap inside, no middle row bench seat). With 3 kids and more planned a truck won't do. Should be able to order a new Yukon this spring (going with the Denali because of the bigger engine and auto levelling for towing).

scott023
10-20-2013, 11:37 AM
Both the Caddy and Denali are good looking trucks. Can't go wrong there.

FourFourty
10-20-2013, 11:39 AM
Isnt your raptor supercharged??? Lol

Yessir :D

However, I was just pointing out that the weak point was my rear suspension. It actually wouldn't make a lot of difference being supercharged. The original 6.2 has enough power to pull it. If I stomped the throttle towing the boat, I would probably leave my driveshaft in the road....

I tow about 1000 miles each way through a mountain pass once or twice a year not to mention another 1000 miles or to and from my dealer for winterization and storage. While going through mountains I'm also packed for a months vacation. I'm looking at the new 2015 Yukon's when they come out. I see their tow rating is still at 7900 lbs.

For that kind of tow, I would want a diesel as well......

I like the caddy too buy my local dealer here doesn't sell or service them. 5 hour drive to nearest caddy dealer.


Don't forget, you would end up paying about 20k more than a Yukon Denali, for virtually no reason. The Escalade is a ripoff.

lashburn1
10-20-2013, 12:09 PM
Both the Caddy and Denali are good looking trucks. Can't go wrong there.

Wow, to Say say someone's potential or current Tow vehicle is "Ugly" , is a bit unnecessary ...

Maybe stick to actual pros and cons of the Vehicles capabilities with regards to the forum....

We all have personal taste and styles that appeal to us....no need to dis another for theirs,,,

Cheers!!!

Bambamski1
10-20-2013, 12:14 PM
The yukon blows for towing. Pretty much everything in that class sucks for towing. I'm like you nick, we tow through the mountains a couple of times per year. I blew the transfer case in my yukon and two weeks later the diff went. My dealer basically said get a truck if you are going to tow, sure the yukon is rated to tow 8000 lbs but that is the frame and suspension. The drive train is beefed up car parts and is basically junk for towing.

You have a larger family from the sounds of it so it sounds like the truck is out. I went F250 and will never go back... Just know that what ever you buy in the large sport ut class you should get rid of every three years before your warranty is up.

lashburn1
10-20-2013, 12:40 PM
The yukon blows for towing. Pretty much everything in that class sucks for towing. I'm like you nick, we tow through the mountains a couple of times per year. I blew the transfer case in my yukon and two weeks later the diff went. My dealer basically said get a truck if you are going to tow, sure the yukon is rated to tow 8000 lbs but that is the frame and suspension. The drive train is beefed up car parts and is basically junk for towing.

You have a larger family from the sounds of it so it sounds like the truck is out. I went F250 and will never go back... Just know that what ever you buy in the large sport ut class you should get rid of every three years before your warranty is up.

That sucks, don't know much about the GM 1500 series vehicle....I have heard their 2500-3500 series are solid...

Have you. Towed with Ford or Dodge 1/2 ton platforms?

I have a 2012 Tundra CrewMax 5.7 with tow package...
Although it consumes a bit of fuel Towing, I tows quite nicely and with comfort for the 5 of us on trips....( SouthWest US mountains , deserts)

It is also perfect for my light and mid level work duties...

F250 diesel would be nice...but it's a bit much for my daily use...

Nick911
10-20-2013, 01:15 PM
A truck is out of the question what with potential for 4 kids. Even at 3 kids it's tight. I like the looks of the new Yukons from the youtube clips I saw they look even better there then in GM's stock photos. A nice Sierra 2500HD Denali would be sweet but not really practical.

Our 2007 Yukon Denali has made at least a dozen trips through the mountains towing my X25's or old Monterey. I off-road it all the time and have actually driven up some mountain goat trails (only lit the brakes on fire once). She's got 140,000 km on it and not once I have ever had anything go wrong with it save an ABS sensor repair and the rear defroster stopped working.

Aric'sX15
10-20-2013, 02:05 PM
Wow, to Say say someone's potential or current Tow vehicle is "Ugly" , is a bit unnecessary ...

Maybe stick to actual pros and cons of the Vehicles capabilities with regards to the forum....

We all have personal taste and styles that appeal to us....no need to dis another for theirs,,,

Cheers!!!

What did I miss.... looks like he said they're both good looking.

Aric'sX15
10-20-2013, 02:07 PM
Also towed my buddies X1 to broken bow Oklahoma from dfw a few weeks ago with my f150 5.0 crew cab, and I averaged 14.7 the whole time. Not to bad if you asked me!

lashburn1
10-20-2013, 02:17 PM
What did I miss.... looks like he said they're both good looking.

Sorry for the confusion, I was actually adding to what you were saying...
Another poster was mentioning, "how ugly" another vehicle was..
It just did not seem relevant to the towing and technical factor in question...

It seems better, just to provide helpful comments about a vehicle abilities, then what you think of that negative aspects of it's looks

Tristarboarder
10-20-2013, 02:19 PM
For what it's worth, I tow both my Tristar and now my Xstar with an '11 GMC Sierra 1500 up and down mountain passes in WA state with no problem. Has the tow mide/package and gets about 15 towing...Although a crew cab, not as roomy as a newer F150, but comfortable for 4 people

bobx1
10-20-2013, 04:24 PM
The 2015 Yukons look horrible in my opinion. I know they are the same as Escalade and Chevy, but it looks "girly". IMO the chevy and Escalade look way better.

:confused: :confused:

scott023
10-20-2013, 06:44 PM
Wow, to Say say someone's potential or current Tow vehicle is "Ugly" , is a bit unnecessary ...

Maybe stick to actual pros and cons of the Vehicles capabilities with regards to the forum....

We all have personal taste and styles that appeal to us....no need to dis another for theirs,,,

Cheers!!!

Huh? I didn't say anyones vehicle was ugly. I said their both good looking vehicles. Not sure how that was misread??

scott023
10-20-2013, 06:48 PM
Sorry for the confusion, I was actually adding to what you were saying...
Another poster was mentioning, "how ugly" another vehicle was..
It just did not seem relevant to the towing and technical factor in question...

It seems better, just to provide helpful comments about a vehicle abilities, then what you think of that negative aspects of it's looks

lol. Read this after. I was thoroughly confused when I read the other post.:rolleyes:

g-mantrix
10-20-2013, 08:28 PM
Wanted to read this thread re MC surf system, last number of chats has been about tow vehicles, nice to get this thread back on track cheers

scott023
10-20-2013, 08:30 PM
Probably went off topic because there is no MC surf system to speak of. Yet.

ttu
10-20-2013, 08:35 PM
Also towed my buddies X1 to broken bow Oklahoma from dfw a few weeks ago with my f150 5.0 crew cab, and I averaged 14.7 the whole time. Not to bad if you asked me!

much better than my old 08 sequoia. however my lil touareg tdi towed my x2 to table rock and got 17 plus mpg.

also let's get this thread back on track with surf system!:rolleyes:

mcLove
10-20-2013, 08:41 PM
Another. I like the caddie too

Ohh wow. Not the picture i saw. I looked it up and got one that looked like the Acadia but longer. Definitely my bad on criticizing it. Would definitely like to see what a mastercraft would look behind that!!

skitilldark
10-21-2013, 10:02 AM
A few years ago ,,,too many Boats built nearly cost MC their company...
Probably still recovering from that shock....
Ramping up slowly...?

That is true. That is always a quandry. Because too many boats has to cost quality somewhere down the line. When they first told me they were going to start using sprayed glass I almost fainted.

KahunaCraft
10-21-2013, 12:21 PM
I'm hoping that if there is a new surf system that it ties into the systems for tab management so that it may be backward compatible or at least an add-on technology for the 2012 and older boats.

KahunaCraft
10-24-2013, 09:19 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/y2e6ejyg.jpg


Those don't look like garden variety tabs...

lashburn1
10-24-2013, 09:29 PM
Look extended by 3" or so..?
Also looks like wide angle lens distorted view a bit... But they do not appear to be same as 2013

scott023
10-24-2013, 09:31 PM
Those definitely look bigger than I've seen before.

Aric'sX15
10-24-2013, 09:36 PM
def longer. the tabs on my 10' ended where the actuators attached to the plates.

lashburn1
10-24-2013, 09:47 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/y2e6ejyg.jpg


Those don't look like garden variety tabs...

Which Boat model is this ? X2.?

Aric'sX15
10-24-2013, 09:48 PM
yes it is! with the BTS windshield!

sand2snow22
10-24-2013, 11:42 PM
3" inches? Try 12-18". Look how long those actuators are! We've put several MC Surf tabs on late model MC's. MC has been constantly tweaking the tabs. Shorter, longer, corner cut, corner not cut, etc.

Look how much the corner is cut now! I hope it works!!

Aric'sX15
10-24-2013, 11:43 PM
the 2010 ones sucked no matter how you put it

scott023
10-25-2013, 12:48 AM
3" inches? Try 12-18". Look how long those actuators are! We've put several MC Surf tabs on late model MC's. MC has been constantly tweaking the tabs. Shorter, longer, corner cut, corner not cut, etc.

Look how much the corner is cut now! I hope it works!!

Big changes, I'd like to see the wake with that set up.

Nick911
10-25-2013, 01:40 AM
Those tabs look about 3" longer than the 2013's?

Gunford
10-25-2013, 02:33 AM
Heard today it will be announced in January. Bigger tabs and different shape.


Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Nick911
10-25-2013, 03:34 AM
Heard today it will be announced in January. Bigger tabs and different shape.


Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Sweet. Sounds retrofittable to 2013's/2012's.

KahunaCraft
10-25-2013, 04:25 AM
BTW: the pic was sourced from the MC Facebook page.

FourFourty
10-25-2013, 07:50 AM
New tabs are 18"!! 8" Longer than the 2010-2011, and 6" Longer than the 2012-2013. I know the '12&'13 Tabs worked better than the older ones, but still not great. These look big enough to get the job done! :fingerscrossed:

wallnut21
10-25-2013, 08:21 AM
Is the Attitude plate changing? Looks a little larger in that picture. Might just be the angle.

scott023
10-25-2013, 12:23 PM
Is the Attitude plate changing? Looks a little larger in that picture. Might just be the angle.

Looks a bit bigger to me. ICBW though.

wallnut21
10-29-2013, 08:05 PM
Anyone know/heard how big the PNP bags are that come with the Surf Package? I'm hoping they're 750's.

Aric'sX15
10-29-2013, 08:06 PM
probably 400-550s

lashburn1
10-29-2013, 10:19 PM
I hope the 2013s tabs can be retro fitted to accomadate these...
Seems the least they could do

Aric'sX15
10-30-2013, 03:51 PM
Assuming all they are just longer tabs, shouldn't be an issue

teamcanada
10-30-2013, 04:04 PM
My dealer is saying they will be retrofittable to my 13 x30 so that is good. Can't wait to see the wake. Rumour is they did a real world test with other boats and it was clear that these tabs made a huge difference and catapulted mc ahead. This is all here say until we actually see it. It sure sounds exciting though.

scott023
10-30-2013, 04:56 PM
Hmmm. Wonder how far back in model years they will retro fit to...

swatguy
10-30-2013, 05:02 PM
Wait didn't MC have those Mac/PC commercials with Zane saying Tige needs tabs but MC doesn't cuz their hulls are better ? Ohhhhhhh how times have changed.

Jonb1822
10-30-2013, 08:21 PM
So this picture made me very curious. I went through online pictures comparing 2013 & 2014 X2s and these look identical to last years. However when you look at all other 2014 models besides the x2 they do not look like these. Could these be a model only used on X2s?

One thing to look for is the lip on the very end and where the actuator mounts on the tab.

Aric'sX15
10-30-2013, 08:23 PM
Wait didn't MC have those Mac/PC commercials with Zane saying Tige needs tabs but MC doesn't cuz their hulls are better ? Ohhhhhhh how times have changed.

every time i see you bashing mc in a post it makes me wonder why you aren't sh*t talking about us over on the axis forum.

swatguy
11-01-2013, 12:51 AM
I just kindly point out the past and speak the truth. A little dose does us all good. Keeps some people honest. I guess it's ok for MC to publish and use it in it marketing when they are bashing other companies, but when it comes full circle we can't say anything.

Should I slam Tige or an X15 instead?

Figure I would add the vids for viewing pleasure.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=joXHoWz5vPM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=weqG8y62ZOs. Now who's behind on a surf system?

lashburn1
11-01-2013, 12:54 AM
Wait didn't MC have those Mac/PC commercials with Zane saying Tige needs tabs but MC doesn't cuz their hulls are better ? Ohhhhhhh how times have changed.

It's ok to change there minds......when it's for the better

Aric'sX15
11-01-2013, 01:15 AM
why put down mc on an mc website when you own an mc?? so confusing

swatguy
11-01-2013, 01:44 AM
Like I said a little jab here and there keeps us all honest. My post was more to give everyone a small chuckle not bash as having tabs and accessories on your transom was taboo by MC back then. However now MC is up to 3 tabs and they're allegedly going even bigger. Maybe my mind is warped and I am the only one who sees the humor in that. Obviously if I thought their boats were complete garbage I wouldn't help people with their issues/questions or own one that I put over 1k hours on. Sure it's older but I haven't found anything that can beat its performance for what I need that I can justify dropping the $$ on. I base my needs for upgrading on performance not paint jobs and and gadgets. Just because my boat is an antiques doesn't mean I don't know about newer models. I have been in the industry a long time and have had the opportunities to be in many mfg's boats. I see the good and bad in each and every one.

I love reading the threads here about other Mfg's and people just firing off .........the most recent Epic and Tige threads come to mind. People love feeling good and firing off about other brands. Yet when the flaws are pointed out from this end they get all butt hurt. The facts are the facts. I just call it how I see it and experience it as people do visit these sites for info. I guess I am just that guy who feels the negative parts should get hit on just like the positives. Sometimes the rah rah blinds people.

Any thread that pops up that I can give direct feedback/fair comparisons when comparing MC boats to other MFG I chime in. I take my flack as I expect it, but at the end of the day people surf these sites for info and reviews. I just present both sides not just one. Even it it means it casts our beloved brand in a bad light. Obviously people looking at this surf thread are anxious and also bit upset about the lacking. Hell even some have left the brand because if it's lack of a surf system. I felt it was the right place to throw the jab and get a couple laughs from members.

To me when I heard the tabs were getting bigger after MC has used a 3 tab system for some time I chuckled and shook my head. The old adds and marketing jargon MC used back then were the first things to pop in my head. The old adds and sales talk about their hulls being so advanced they didn't need silly tabs, wedges, or other accessories to get performance is just something that can no longer be used to sell boats, however it was one of their huge issues way back when to sell their boats against other mfg's. Just goes to the credit of other mfg's being not as far behind as MC made claim to.

swatguy
11-01-2013, 02:56 AM
I'll get us back on the surf topic with everyone's favorite pro surfer Alana Blanchard


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/01/y4urytyr.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/01/edupypa5.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

clrussell
11-01-2013, 06:43 AM
I'll get us back on the surf topic with everyone's favorite pro surfer Alana Blanchard


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/01/y4urytyr.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/01/edupypa5.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Right

ttu
11-01-2013, 07:46 AM
I'll get us back on the surf topic with everyone's favorite pro surfer Alana Blanchard


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/01/y4urytyr.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/01/edupypa5.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

She can be apart of my MC surf system anyday!:D

coz
11-01-2013, 09:15 AM
I'll get us back on the surf topic with everyone's favorite pro surfer Alana Blanchard




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)


That would be my choice but the powers at MC thought he'd be a good surf rep :confused:

http://s.mcstatic.com/thumb/5205553/15538831/4/flash_player/0/1/soundmojo_interview_with_surf_rocker_donavon_frank enreiter.jpg?v=6

AlbertaSurfer
11-01-2013, 09:28 AM
Hey, Donnie may not be a babe, but he's cool. I'd be interested to see what MasterCraft plans on doing with him. Alana surfs on the ASP World Tour, she's too busy to mess around with boats, but Donnie is a freesurfer so he's got all the time in the world. I imagine he'll be kicking around events, maybe making the rounds during boat show season or something, flossing the X46.

scott023
11-01-2013, 12:29 PM
She can be apart of my MC surf system anyday!:D

You've got that right. :o

rgardjr1
11-01-2013, 02:08 PM
I'll nominate Anastasia Ashley:

http://youtu.be/Kt1aV4GFIxY

I couldn't figure out how to embed it :confused:

swatguy
11-01-2013, 02:55 PM
[QUOTE=rgardjr1;989126]I'll nominate Anastasia Ashley:

http://youtu.be/Kt1aV4GFIxY

I couldn't figure out how to embed it :confused:[

Now that's a video. . She def a close second.

TN_Rider
11-01-2013, 04:03 PM
It looks as if the tabs push down as well as extend out further?? So they push down and extend.

scott023
11-01-2013, 04:22 PM
I'll nominate Anastasia Ashley:

http://youtu.be/Kt1aV4GFIxY

I couldn't figure out how to embed it :confused:

What a unique warm up. Wonder who the guy is taking vid of all the warm ups? That must look a little creepy... 8p

ttu
11-01-2013, 04:27 PM
love the look of the other woman surfers!

MASTIQUE
11-01-2013, 04:51 PM
Which Boat model is this ? X2.?

This looks like a stretched photo, look at the size in relation to the AAP.

mzimme
11-01-2013, 07:07 PM
I'll nominate Anastasia Ashley:

http://youtu.be/Kt1aV4GFIxY

I couldn't figure out how to embed it :confused:

I do this before all of my surf sesh's.. why doesn't anyone ever video tape me? :o

KahunaCraft
11-01-2013, 10:53 PM
I saw a few other pics, other boats, they are a lot bigger tabs no matter what angle the pic is taken. But I agree that the one I lifted off the MC FB page is not great and distorts the view.

I'll try to dig up a few others.

lashburn1
11-01-2013, 11:36 PM
That would be my choice but the powers at MC thought he'd be a good surf rep :confused:

http://s.mcstatic.com/thumb/5205553/15538831/4/flash_player/0/1/soundmojo_interview_with_surf_rocker_donavon_frank enreiter.jpg?v=6

Donavon Frankereiter is the real deal...super cool dude too.
I worked with him once unloading his band gear from a truck for like 15minutes before I realized HE was the artist...lol.. You almost never see that from artist...

He's not pretty like Alana though...I'll give u that

Mastercraftdave
11-02-2013, 07:29 PM
I was told today at the boat show that we would see something in January

sand2snow22
11-02-2013, 09:20 PM
See what?

snork
11-02-2013, 09:31 PM
I'd like to see more of Anastasia Ashley

Nick911
11-03-2013, 01:11 AM
I was told today at the boat show that we would see something in January

As far as a new system?

Mastercraftdave
11-03-2013, 10:49 AM
As far as a new system?
There is supposed to be a new surf system coming in January and supposedly they did a lot of R&D with current systems available to see the effects on MC hulls and the current tabs to come up with a new MC system. Also the tabs are longer this year and can be retro fitted for any model with the tabs.

scottsx2
11-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Any word on being able to retro fit this new system that comes out in January with existing boats with surf tabs?

Nick911
11-03-2013, 01:35 PM
There is supposed to be a new surf system coming in January and supposedly they did a lot of R&D with current systems available to see the effects on MC hulls and the current tabs to come up with a new MC system. Also the tabs are longer this year and can be retro fitted for any model with the tabs.

So the bigger tabs are the new system or there is something else?

scott023
11-03-2013, 10:05 PM
I'm very interested to see if this system will be able to retro fit onto my boat. That would be exciting.

lashburn1
11-04-2013, 03:48 AM
I'm very interested to see if this system will be able to retro fit onto my boat. That would be exciting.

" supposedly" 2013s at least, will be able to upgrade Software AND new tabs...
Existing Rams would be used with New Tabs...
Hopefully since is just Software and new Tabs the cost will be low....
Did not asked about pre-2013 upgrades...

kalamalka
11-04-2013, 10:59 AM
according to the dealer here, yes the big tabs are the new surf system.

Nick911
11-04-2013, 12:57 PM
So does no one on this site have a 2014 yet that can check into this? What size are the tabs? How do they work?

wallnut21
11-04-2013, 02:04 PM
They way I'm understanding this is that the 2014's on Dealer lots now won't have these new larger tabs. The boats currently in production will have the new tabs. Is that right??

kalamalka
11-04-2013, 03:47 PM
from my understanding, that is correct.

Nick911
11-04-2013, 04:22 PM
All good the theory of delayed convergence should work with the bigger tabs. If the pistons are being used should be a very easy fix. Imagine the software touch will be a freebie and $300-$400 for the tabs.

masterx10
11-04-2013, 04:44 PM
I took delivery of a 2014 X10 a couple of weeks ago. The tabs on my boat look the same as the 2013's in the photos I have seen. Does anyone know if Mastercraft updates an item on a model year mid way through the years production, do they retrofit the earlier same model year at their cost?

tkemperdc
11-04-2013, 04:55 PM
do they retrofit the earlier same model year at their cost?

I'm certain you jest....

scott023
11-04-2013, 05:14 PM
I'm certain you jest....

They certainly should. No way I'd be happy with buying a new boat, only to have the manufacturer change the set up mid production and leave my with a potentially inferior product. If I had a 2014, it better have all the bells and whistles on it that the others have.

tkemperdc
11-04-2013, 06:00 PM
They certainly should. No way I'd be happy with buying a new boat, only to have the manufacturer change the set up mid production and leave my with a potentially inferior product. If I had a 2014, it better have all the bells and whistles on it that the others have.

I agree, but I would doubt this will happen is all I was suggesting. Sorry for not being clear.

FourFourty
11-04-2013, 06:10 PM
I agree, but I would doubt this will happen is all I was suggesting. Sorry for not being clear.

Typically I would agree, however, MC usually goes above and beyond, in this regard. I don't really see why they should be required to upfit the 14s, but I will not be surprised if they do.

MC has surprised me with free upfits a few times. ie. 1)Electric to hydraulic conversion on power tower, 2)Brace addition on power tower (which mine never needed. it was solid to begin with), 3) Free impellors when they changed to the new green ones, 4)Braces on the ZFT3 tower, 4) They retrofitted the cupholder seat in my X25 for free. 5) When I ordered my star, the shower was not an option. They added it later, and put one in my boat.

They certainly should. No way I'd be happy with buying a new boat, only to have the manufacturer change the set up mid production and leave my with a potentially inferior product. If I had a 2014, it better have all the bells and whistles on it that the others have.

My case, in point. Nautique did not do this for 2013 G23 owners. It cost the early G23 buyers 4k to have it added.

JTNG
11-04-2013, 07:54 PM
My new 2014 Pro! Cant Wait

sand2snow22
11-04-2013, 09:14 PM
My case, in point. Nautique did not do this for 2013 G23 owners. It cost the early G23 buyers 4k to have it added.

At least they got to add it :) Surfgate not retrofittable.. :mad:

scott023
11-04-2013, 09:47 PM
Typically I would agree, however, MC usually goes above and beyond, in this regard. I don't really see why they should be required to upfit the 14s, but I will not be surprised if they do.

MC has surprised me with free upfits a few times. ie. 1)Electric to hydraulic conversion on power tower, 2)Brace addition on power tower (which mine never needed. it was solid to begin with), 3) Free impellors when they changed to the new green ones, 4)Braces on the ZFT3 tower, 4) They retrofitted the cupholder seat in my X25 for free. 5) When I ordered my star, the shower was not an option. They added it later, and put one in my boat.



My case, in point. Nautique did not do this for 2013 G23 owners. It cost the early G23 buyers 4k to have it added.

I truly think they will retro fit the 14's. That's the way MC had rolled in my experience.

lashburn1
11-04-2013, 09:56 PM
I would think those who Paid for the Surf system in 2014 would get the upgrade, free,
2013 paid for a Surf system might have to pay for the upgrade... (tabs only)

tkemperdc
11-04-2013, 10:37 PM
Well good to hear, I have not yet ordered a new boat, 06 x-15 and this year I sold that and have a 2008 XStar.

I just should have kept my mouth shut, most companies nowadays, do not go above and beyond, glad to hear MC still does. Thanks for the correction.

FourFourty, is still taking care of my 2013 Xstar :D


Tom

atthelake
11-05-2013, 01:28 AM
Ordering my 2014 X30 & was told that those who ordered this fall & upgraded to the surf package will get the updates 'automatically'. The way I understood it was that each hull/model will have tabs that are made specially for that particular model ie a X25's tabs are not the same as a X30. Or has it always been like that?

JohnE
11-05-2013, 09:56 AM
Personally I don't think MC will or should upgrade boat that have left the line. They have always made running changes. If it were a 'problem' issue like the tower braces, or any of a number of issues that they have always address I would agree. But not for just an improvement. Heck before I'd do that as a manufacturer, I'd label the boats 2014.5. But I would be steaming mad if I was stuck with one of the early models.

FourFourty
11-05-2013, 10:28 AM
Well good to hear, I have not yet ordered a new boat, 06 x-15 and this year I sold that and have a 2008 XStar.

I just should have kept my mouth shut, most companies nowadays, do not go above and beyond, glad to hear MC still does. Thanks for the correction.

FourFourty, is still taking care of my 2013 Xstar :D


Tom

I hear ya, and typically you would be spot on. MC has just surprised several times with things like this.

Side note- I have decided to keep the '13 star for another year. I was also excited to hear that they are doing retrofittable surf tabs for the star. Is it spring yet?

Ordering my 2014 X30 & was told that those who ordered this fall & upgraded to the surf package will get the updates 'automatically'. The way I understood it was that each hull/model will have tabs that are made specially for that particular model ie a X25's tabs are not the same as a X30. Or has it always been like that?

I was told the same. Every boat will have individually engineered tabs. Some longer, some wider, some with a hook on the end, some with a notch, some with all of the above etc..

Personally I don't think MC will or should upgrade boat that have left the line. They have always made running changes. If it were a 'problem' issue like the tower braces, or any of a number of issues that they have always address I would agree. But not for just an improvement. Heck before I'd do that as a manufacturer, I'd label the boats 2014.5. But I would be steaming mad if I was stuck with one of the early models.

Did the surf tabs work great before?? Not really...... That's a problem....

Given my previous experience with MC, in these situations, I would be very surprised if they didn't upfit the tabs on the '14s. VERY surprised.

lashburn1
11-05-2013, 10:51 AM
Personally I don't think MC will or should upgrade boat that have left the line. They have always made running changes. If it were a 'problem' issue like the tower braces, or any of a number of issues that they have always address I would agree. But not for just an improvement. Heck before I'd do that as a manufacturer, I'd label the boats 2014.5. But I would be steaming mad if I was stuck with one of the early models.

...Because it is Just SoftWare and TABS (not the Rams) this is a cheap upgrade fro MC to just give to the 2014 model owners...
I could see charging 2013 are earlier MCs an upgrade fee....

scott023
11-05-2013, 11:37 AM
Personally I don't think MC will or should upgrade boat that have left the line. They have always made running changes. If it were a 'problem' issue like the tower braces, or any of a number of issues that they have always address I would agree. But not for just an improvement. Heck before I'd do that as a manufacturer, I'd label the boats 2014.5. But I would be steaming mad if I was stuck with one of the early models.

I disagree completely. I think if they want to keep customers, they should absolutely upgrade any 2014 model. I can guarantee that early season sales would diminish if they were in the habit of tinkering with the models mid season and making big improvements. I sure as heck wouldn't order a 2014 in 2013 or a 2015 in 2014... I'd wait until the new year and make sure I was buying a "finished" product.

tkemperdc
11-05-2013, 04:26 PM
I hear ya, and typically you would be spot on. MC has just surprised several times with things like this.

Side note- I have decided to keep the '13 star for another year. I was also excited to hear that they are doing retrofittable surf tabs for the star. Is it spring yet?




That's ok, I hope to visit next fall :D

tkemperdc
11-05-2013, 04:28 PM
I disagree completely. I think if they want to keep customers, they should absolutely upgrade any 2014 model. I can guarantee that early season sales would diminish if they were in the habit of tinkering with the models mid season and making big improvements. I sure as heck wouldn't order a 2014 in 2013 or a 2015 in 2014... I'd wait until the new year and make sure I was buying a "finished" product.

I have to agree, I would think then most would not have an incentive to buy early as they like to push the fall orders for the new model year, and certainly sounds like MC will be willing to upgrade them. I was just glad to hear past experiences here that they are willing to upgrade things.

MA190
11-05-2013, 08:12 PM
Has anybody seen this? Malibu has filed suit against Nautique.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/181356257/Malibu-Boats-v-Nautique-Boat-Company-pdf

MA190
11-05-2013, 08:17 PM
DEMAND for Jury Trial?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/181356257/Malibu-Boats-v-Nautique-Boat-Company-pdf

jafo9
11-05-2013, 08:23 PM
gotta love lawyers.

MA190
11-05-2013, 08:29 PM
And here s the countersuit by Nautique...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/181672342/Nautique-Boat-Company-v-Malibu-Boats-pdf

Nick911
11-05-2013, 08:47 PM
I'd say Malibu's surfgate mimics MC's surf tabs more than Nautique's NSS mimics surfgate.

Nick911
11-05-2013, 08:54 PM
Dealer told me:

New system uses bigger tabs, a longer actuator, a different mounting bracket, and includes a shim to move platform up slightly. The new bracket may or may not require a new mounting location meaning gel repairs as well.

As far as he knew there we no software upgrades as the system operated off existing percentages making it compatible with all tab-equipped boats.

I'm thinking this will be at least a $3K touch if gel repairs are required. If it works as well as NSS will be an easy sell for me.

Either way, very good news that something is coming out!

FamilyX2
11-05-2013, 09:07 PM
Nick, I assume that was Edmonton MMS?

Did they say when this would be implemented at factory?
I was told previously that "enhanced system" would be installed by dealer on 2014's just ordered.

Nick911
11-05-2013, 09:31 PM
Nick, I assume that was Edmonton MMS?

Did they say when this would be implemented at factory?
I was told previously that "enhanced system" would be installed by dealer on 2014's just ordered.

They did not but sounded like no issues with retrofit.

scott023
11-06-2013, 01:01 AM
They did not but sounded like no issues with retrofit.

That's good to know.

FourFourty
11-06-2013, 08:17 AM
Has anybody seen this? Malibu has filed suit against Nautique.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/181356257/Malibu-Boats-v-Nautique-Boat-Company-pdf

Which is why MC is sticking to the tabs, and re-engineering them to work as intended. No liability that way.

Dealer told me:

New system uses bigger tabs, a longer actuator, a different mounting bracket, and includes a shim to move platform up slightly. The new bracket may or may not require a new mounting location meaning gel repairs as well.

As far as he knew there we no software upgrades as the system operated off existing percentages making it compatible with all tab-equipped boats.

I'm thinking this will be at least a $3K touch if gel repairs are required. If it works as well as NSS will be an easy sell for me.

Either way, very good news that something is coming out!

I was told the same thing, except that, only one model will have the platform spacers..... The XStar. Because there is not enough height for the actuators with the stepped hull. They need to install a 1" spacer, and should not require gel work. They currently have a tab equipped XStar in testing.

wallnut21
11-06-2013, 08:24 AM
I ordered a x30 last Friday..... Will it have these new tabs? Dealer thought I should have it late February/ early march. Dealer knew nothing about new tabs.

FourFourty
11-06-2013, 08:27 AM
most likely

SchuyHigh
11-06-2013, 08:30 AM
I disagree completely. I think if they want to keep customers, they should absolutely upgrade any 2014 model. I can guarantee that early season sales would diminish if they were in the habit of tinkering with the models mid season and making big improvements. I sure as heck wouldn't order a 2014 in 2013 or a 2015 in 2014... I'd wait until the new year and make sure I was buying a "finished" product.


I just took delivery of a $75K 2014 X2. To think I should be responsible for a $3K improvement a month later. NOT! I will patiently wait for the release of the mentioned improvements, state my case with dealer/MC and expect them to cooperate. If not.............. I suppose we will not know its effects until my next purchase. We will see!

FourFourty
11-06-2013, 08:36 AM
I just took delivery of a $75K 2014 X2. To think I should be responsible for a $3K improvement a month later. NOT! I will patiently wait for the release of the mentioned improvements, state my case with dealer/MC and expect them to cooperate. If not.............. I suppose we will not know its effects until my next purchase. We will see!

You might want to approach it with a "Hello mr dealer, is there anything you can do for me on this?" attitude, instead of a "I expect this for free, right now, or else...." attitude.

Jussayin...

JohnE
11-06-2013, 08:55 AM
I disagree completely. I think if they want to keep customers, they should absolutely upgrade any 2014 model. I can guarantee that early season sales would diminish if they were in the habit of tinkering with the models mid season and making big improvements. I sure as heck wouldn't order a 2014 in 2013 or a 2015 in 2014... I'd wait until the new year and make sure I was buying a "finished" product.

We can agree to disagree. I don't think they are in the "habit" of making big improvements mid model year. I'd be just as disappointed if they held off on an improvement just because of the model year designation and I got the last one off the line for the '14 model year and 2 weeks later they roll it out on a '15. It'll be great if they do offer the free retrofit though.

MA190
11-06-2013, 09:49 AM
I spoke with my dealer to see if it can be added to my boat. He said that the new 2014 system cost's more than the old 2014 system and he will just charge customers the difference in cost between the old system and the new system. That sounds fair to me?

lashburn1
11-06-2013, 09:49 AM
I just took delivery of a $75K 2014 X2. To think I should be responsible for a $3K improvement a month later. NOT! I will patiently wait for the release of the mentioned improvements, state my case with dealer/MC and expect them to cooperate. If not.............. I suppose we will not know its effects until my next purchase. We will see!

Ditto Four40...
However if you ordered Surf Tabs / Surf Package , you will most likely get them as a retro fit..
It's those who did NOT ever have them that will likely pay full pop.. As they are not listed as standard equipment Like Malibu or Nautique's...

2014s who had TABs should be taken care of by MC
2013s , like myself, should likely be upgradable for a nominal Fee. $$ :(
2012s and earlier Tabers will probably be in 2013s same situation ...
Not sure how far back tabs go in years on current available Hulls?

lashburn1
11-06-2013, 09:53 AM
I spoke with my dealer to see if it can be added to my boat. He said that the new 2014 system cost's more than the old 2014 system and he will just charge customers the difference in cost between the old system and the new system. That sounds fair to me?

Possibly... But would be nice to here from MC directly , as they have not actually released it yet right?

MA190
11-06-2013, 09:54 AM
The Malibu Surf Gate and Nautique NSS are not standard. They are optional just like the MasterCraft system. The current MasterCraft system is much less expensive than the Surf gate and NSS. My dealer said the new MasterCraft system will be more than the old system, but still less than the Surf Gate and NSS options?

FourFourty
11-06-2013, 10:11 AM
Ditto Four40...
However if you ordered Surf Tabs / Surf Package , you will most likely get them as a retro fit..
It's those who did NOT ever have them that will likely pay full pop.. As they are not listed as standard equipment Like Malibu or Nautique's...

2014s who had TABs should be taken care of by MC
2013s , like myself, should likely be upgradable for a nominal Fee. $$ :(
2012s and earlier Tabers will probably be in 2013s same situation ...
Not sure how far back tabs go in years on current available Hulls?

Agree.... If you never ordered surf package to begin with, a retro fit should be full cost. MC is not at all responsible for that.

scott023
11-06-2013, 11:00 AM
Agree.... If you never ordered surf package to begin with, a retro fit should be full cost. MC is not at all responsible for that.

I agree completely.

lashburn1
11-06-2013, 11:18 AM
The Malibu Surf Gate and Nautique NSS are not standard. They are optional just like the MasterCraft system. The current MasterCraft system is much less expensive than the Surf gate and NSS. My dealer said the new MasterCraft system will be more than the old system, but still less than the Surf Gate and NSS options?

2014 - Malibu - MX LSV - standard

SchuyHigh
11-06-2013, 01:49 PM
You might want to approach it with a "Hello mr dealer, is there anything you can do for me on this?" attitude, instead of a "I expect this for free, right now, or else...." attitude.

Jussayin...


I appreciate your advice, but I never used the words "free", "now", or "or else". I used words like "patient", "cooperate", and "we will see".

Not as demanding as you suggested but thanks for the pointers.

varun
11-06-2013, 06:15 PM
For a 2014 X25 that is in the build queue, that will be built later this month, ordered with the SURF package, will have these long tabs or not? Are they already putting them on boats they are building today, or only boats built next year after their formal accouncement?

scott023
11-06-2013, 06:33 PM
For a 2014 X25 that is in the build queue, that will be built later this month, ordered with the SURF package, will have these long tabs or not? Are they already putting them on boats they are building today, or only boats built next year after their formal accouncement?

From what I've heard, if you're in the que now, you won't have the new tabs. You'll have to retro fit.

lashburn1
11-06-2013, 07:02 PM
...not that I'm getting a New boat, but I would rather have mine stay at the Factory and wait for the new Tabs...
MC peeps ordering NEW boats per spec, would probably rather wait too.
Its not like they're printing Bayliners other there...

wallnut21
11-06-2013, 07:22 PM
If they aren't putting them on boats being built now where did the pics come from? I thought the boats that will be deliver after the new year will have these new tabs.

lashburn1
11-06-2013, 07:29 PM
If they aren't putting them on boats being built now where did the pics come from? I thought the boats that will be deliver after the new year will have these new tabs.

could be a production boat...could be a Test boat...
The pic was an X2

varun
11-06-2013, 07:29 PM
From what I've heard, if you're in the que now, you won't have the new tabs. You'll have to retro fit.

So I'm guessing this means they will have to remove the old tabs, and install the newer longer tabs at the dealership sometime in 2014? Would the dealer charge me for this?

wallnut21
11-06-2013, 07:39 PM
Seems to me it would be easier and cheaper for MC to be installing them now rather than pay the dealer to do the update. Which I'm just assuming they would do on this mid-year model change.

scott023
11-06-2013, 07:40 PM
So I'm guessing this means they will have to remove the old tabs, and install the newer longer tabs at the dealership sometime in 2014? Would the dealer charge me for this?

I don't think they should charge, and I don't think they would. But I've been wrong before.

skitilldark
11-07-2013, 06:25 AM
Don't think my boat is in que yet(don't have build date) but my dealer tells me mine will have the gen 2 tabs.

CLTMC
11-09-2013, 08:53 AM
The New System will be worth your wait. Be patient and get ready for a Tsunami Sized Summer:)

scott023
11-09-2013, 09:03 AM
You've got more info??

FourFourty
11-09-2013, 09:05 AM
You've got more info??

This^

Any info, or teaser info, would be greatly appreciated, MC!!! Or maybe even just an estimated date that we will see details?!?!

Please Please Please :D



















with sugar on top??

lashburn1
11-09-2013, 10:30 AM
The New System will be worth your wait. Be patient and get ready for a Tsunami Sized Summer:)

I can wait... But if you know something , but can't tell us just say...
" I heard from a friend who saw the new tabs being test" and " he said the new tabs and wave....."
Now you type what we want to hear right where those dots are in the quote " "
:cool:

FourFourty
11-09-2013, 10:42 AM
I can wait... But if you know something , but can't tell us just say...
" I heard from a friend who saw the new tabs being test" and " he said the new tabs and wave....."
Now you type what we want to hear right where those dots are in the quote " "
:cool:

Pretty sure CLTMC is in a position to know something. :D

MasterCraft employee....

lashburn1
11-09-2013, 10:45 AM
Pretty sure CLTMC is in a position to know something. :D

MasterCraft employee....

....ya....I was trying to keep that on the DL...
Lol

lashburn1
11-09-2013, 10:52 AM
Top secret photos emailed to me from a MC insider
Starboard Break- pretty nice

lashburn1
11-09-2013, 10:53 AM
Port side - is insane!! Tsunami Summer!

Aric'sX15
11-09-2013, 11:21 AM
Looks like those wakes need some nose weight; )

Stefan
11-09-2013, 12:20 PM
Port side breaks way too soon... :D:D:D

lashburn1
11-09-2013, 12:32 PM
I think the new tabs are supposed help shape that,,, along with the new 17 ton depleted uranium Ballast system

scott023
11-09-2013, 02:19 PM
I dislike it when people have inside information. Unless I am privy to that info. :D

KahunaCraft
11-09-2013, 02:34 PM
Ah winter must be close...from what I heard, the 2012's are not being supported...but I suspect that with the right programming tool...anything is possible!

lashburn1
11-09-2013, 02:37 PM
I dislike it when people have inside information. Unless I am privy to that info. :D

Hey Scott,
The above pictures ,Top Secret mind you, were shared at great personal risk to both myself and my MC insider , code name ELVEZ
I believe a simple thank you is in order?

I even photoshopped out the Rider and The Boat , so as not to incriminate the innocent

sand2snow22
11-09-2013, 04:54 PM
I have a feeling MC surf system will be more than just tabs. Something new, whether they render the current surf tabs useless or work with the tabs is unknown. May even shape the wave?