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View Full Version : Boat hits a barge!! How do you not see a barge


sp00ky
07-27-2013, 01:17 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/27/19715160-bride-best-man-missing-in-boat-crash-on-hudson-river?lite

willyt
07-27-2013, 01:42 PM
dude... you ever been out at night on a river with barges? they're incredibly hard to see at night, their lighting its EXTREMELY poor. spent many a night on the ohio, their 4 lights blend into the city lights and you're just blind. You have to be very, very experienced at spotting them at night to catch every one

its really a tragic accident

sp00ky
07-27-2013, 01:55 PM
dude... you ever been out at night on a river with barges? they're incredibly hard to see at night, their lighting its EXTREMELY poor. spent many a night on the ohio, their 4 lights blend into the city lights and you're just blind. You have to be very, very experienced at spotting them at night to catch every one

its really a tragic accident

Ok but when I'm driving at night I am ultra aware and constantly scanning everything. If you can't do that then slow the f*** down.

This was an avoidable accident.

bturner2
07-27-2013, 02:11 PM
I was on the Detroit river with a friend one night and came as close as I ever want to come to the back of a freighter. It was very calm with no moon light to speak of. Ran right up on the back of a freighter, didn't see or notice it until the water started getting choppy for no apparent reason. Next thing you know we're starring at the stern of this monster in front of us.

The freighter was empty and his stern light was sitting so high it just blended in with the lights on shore. Hard to explain unless you're out there. Most of these barges and freighters are painted black with maybe white on the decking if you're lucky. Unless you know what you're looking for it's a lot easier than one might think to not see these monsters until it's too late especially if you're running at any speed. Needless to say the rest of the trip back was spent paying much better attention to what we were doing and where we were going. After that experience I seldom go out at night on the great lakes or the river.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-27-2013, 03:25 PM
Ok but when I'm driving at night I am ultra aware and constantly scanning everything. If you can't do that then slow the f*** down.

This was an avoidable accident.

I agree on avoidable. I am on the water a lot after dark and on anything larger than a small lake, and especially on a river (St. Croix & Mississippi) I run with a 3 million candlepower spotlight at hand and use it often. Barges and freighters are very hard to see and easy to get close to.

The main cause of problems after dark is going too fast.

This was tragic indeed, but entirely avoidable. My heart goes out to all involved in this situation.

SeaCup
07-27-2013, 04:34 PM
Keep your left hand on the wheel, right hand on the throttle and both eyes scanning the water. When you are driving with your handheld light which hand are you not using to control the boat?

We love staying out at night too but with so many inexperienced boaters making it dangerous for the rest of us, these types of accidents will continue.




From the net:

Although to the novice it would seem a simple matter of turning on some bright spotlights and cruising on your way much as you would in your car, in marine conditions this is the entirely wrong way to do things. In truth the reverse is true and it is better to allow your eyes to become accustomed to the darkness and rely on your radar more so than your eyes. Out on the water at night, the movement of the ocean waves and the lack of objects with which to judge distances creates problems when using a light. A bright spotlight coupled with the movement of the water can produce the illusion of objects or debris where there is none. Worse, the human eye naturally adjusts itself to low light conditions, increasing its sensitivity and improving its ability to gather light. This can be a serious problem as once the eye has adjusted itself to darkness, turning on a bright spotlight can literally blind you for several minutes until your eye has a chance to readjust itself if the light hits your eyes too intensely. That's several minutes where you could miss seeing a marker, or worse, a nearby watercraft. As a result of this most experienced boaters run with only the faintest illumination to guide them aside from their legally mandated navigation lights in operation. In fact, Coast Guard rules actually prohibit boats that are underway from running with spotlights on. Although this may seem surprising at first, the truth is that once the eye has adjusted itself to darkness it is actually quite readily able to discern objects at a fair distance as long as there is some available light, whether it's moonlight or ambient light from far off sources.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6185268

mustangtexas
07-27-2013, 05:27 PM
According to the story, it sounds as if the barge was stationary and part of a bridge project. The Barge may have blended in with the bridge structure and if you boat that area a lot you could think all is the same as it always is. Terrible outcome. I am always very nervous going faster than no wake at night. Depth perception is lost and tunnel vision sets in.

Traxx822
07-27-2013, 06:01 PM
These guys do sneak up on you. I don't know how many times I've been honked at by these guys. They usually break out binoculars and scope out my ladies. ..

Sometimes they wear scary masks, sometimes they watch us surf and set up chairs along the deck as we go back and forward while they are moored.

When you boat around barges on a regular basis you gather a strong respect for these mammoths.

However, their lights suck, they are relatively quiet when they approach head on and they can sneak up on the best of us.

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sp00ky
07-27-2013, 10:15 PM
These guys do sneak up on you. I don't know how many times I've been honked at by these guys. They usually break out binoculars and scope out my ladies. ..

Sometimes they wear scary masks, sometimes they watch us surf and set up chairs along the deck as we go back and forward while they are moored.

When you boat around barges on a regular basis you gather a strong respect for these mammoths.

However, their lights suck, they are relatively quiet when they approach head on and they can sneak up on the best of us.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Too many people jump in a boat and DO NOT take seriously the responsibilty to those lives in the boat. Get a spotlight or sonar or something. BUT if you cant see slow the F*** down. Its not party time going 20-30+ at night.

100% of your focus should be driving and what maybe lurking.

I hope this jackoff gets a maximum sentence and put up as example for all others.

And I am usually a non-judgmental person. But safety first!!

Traxx822
07-27-2013, 11:31 PM
They just charged the driver with manslaughter.



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walterlaughlin
07-28-2013, 01:10 AM
I feel for those that were injured and killed in this accident, and I don't mean to come across as an a-hole, but for f***'s sake, the best way to avoid an accident while driving a boat at night is, don't go for a boat ride at night at all. Just too much risk

bturner2
07-28-2013, 10:29 AM
No one is going to walk away feeling like a winner on this one even if they throw the guy in jail. This was an accident, no one intentionally tried to hurt anyone but unfortunately it did happen.

I'm sure others are going to feel better if this guy is strung up but if these were indeed his friends nothing the legal system can do to him will match the pain and guilt he'll feel for the rest of his life over what has happened.

I'm always amazed at the manufactured outrage those not closely associated to an event like this have. In these days of projected responsibility where "it's never our fault" and someone has to be "punished to the full extent of the law" we sometimes lose perspective of what has occurred. These we're all friends that went our there that night. No one was forced to go, no one was paying for a service and I'm sure everyone had a part to play in the decision to go out that night and the event that occurred.

I'm not saying the driver shouldn't be held responsible for his actions if indeed he was reckless and was solely to blame but I think we need to step back and think about the dynamics of what has occurred and how everyone involved will be effected for the rest of their lives before we go off demanding the heads of the perceived villains in this unfortunate incident.

bigmac
07-28-2013, 10:41 AM
Dynamics of what happened? The driver of the boat was almost certainly intoxicated, driving at night, too fast, 9 miles on the Hudson River. It's sad to see a young life ruined by terrible judgement, but much sadder is the tragedy that his terrible judgement caused. Nobody is going to feel better with his head on a platter but he has to be held accountable.

dvsone79
07-29-2013, 10:20 AM
No one is going to walk away feeling like a winner on this one even if they throw the guy in jail. This was an accident, no one intentionally tried to hurt anyone but unfortunately it did happen.

I'm sure others are going to feel better if this guy is strung up but if these were indeed his friends nothing the legal system can do to him will match the pain and guilt he'll feel for the rest of his life over what has happened.

I'm always amazed at the manufactured outrage those not closely associated to an event like this have. In these days of projected responsibility where "it's never our fault" and someone has to be "punished to the full extent of the law" we sometimes lose perspective of what has occurred. These we're all friends that went our there that night. No one was forced to go, no one was paying for a service and I'm sure everyone had a part to play in the decision to go out that night and the event that occurred.

I'm not saying the driver shouldn't be held responsible for his actions if indeed he was reckless and was solely to blame but I think we need to step back and think about the dynamics of what has occurred and how everyone involved will be effected for the rest of their lives before we go off demanding the heads of the perceived villains in this unfortunate incident.

Completely agree.

Traxx822
07-29-2013, 01:16 PM
That really makes me think.

I would agree that his pain of having to live with his actions would be punishment enough if it was only a lack of good judgement. But here was a deliberate act of disregard to human life by operating the boat intoxicated.

Therefore he must pay the consequence that fits the crime.

So sad for the groom to be. Pray for their families.

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thatsmrmastercraft
07-29-2013, 01:31 PM
Keep your left hand on the wheel, right hand on the throttle and both eyes scanning the water. When you are driving with your handheld light which hand are you not using to control the boat?

We love staying out at night too but with so many inexperienced boaters making it dangerous for the rest of us, these types of accidents will continue.




From the net:

Although to the novice it would seem a simple matter of turning on some bright spotlights and cruising on your way much as you would in your car, in marine conditions this is the entirely wrong way to do things. In truth the reverse is true and it is better to allow your eyes to become accustomed to the darkness and rely on your radar more so than your eyes. Out on the water at night, the movement of the ocean waves and the lack of objects with which to judge distances creates problems when using a light. A bright spotlight coupled with the movement of the water can produce the illusion of objects or debris where there is none. Worse, the human eye naturally adjusts itself to low light conditions, increasing its sensitivity and improving its ability to gather light. This can be a serious problem as once the eye has adjusted itself to darkness, turning on a bright spotlight can literally blind you for several minutes until your eye has a chance to readjust itself if the light hits your eyes too intensely. That's several minutes where you could miss seeing a marker, or worse, a nearby watercraft. As a result of this most experienced boaters run with only the faintest illumination to guide them aside from their legally mandated navigation lights in operation. In fact, Coast Guard rules actually prohibit boats that are underway from running with spotlights on. Although this may seem surprising at first, the truth is that once the eye has adjusted itself to darkness it is actually quite readily able to discern objects at a fair distance as long as there is some available light, whether it's moonlight or ambient light from far off sources.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6185268

When operating a boat at night, there is plenty of time to remove one's hand from the throttle to operate a spotlight for a quick look IF one is going appropriately slow. Your link suggests that you have little experience operating a boat after dark. On open water, especially on lakes and small rivers where I boat at night, I run without the aid of a spotlight. It is only there to identify a hazard if things don't look right. I also operate small rivers when hunting and it is impossible to get through some areas of deadheads without the aid of a good spotlight.

sp00ky
07-29-2013, 11:11 PM
Completely agree.

This is not "manufactured outrage". It truly pisses me off as here is yet another F***** in a boat who did not take seriously his responsibility to the people he is driving.

A mother will have to bury her daughter instead of seeing her marry. Planning a funeral and canceling all wedding plans.

This makes me sad and mad and all kinds of emotions I do not have to MANUFACTURE as it was so eloquently stated.

Traxx822
07-30-2013, 10:21 AM
This is not "manufactured outrage". It truly pisses me off as here is yet another F***** in a boat who did not take seriously his responsibility to the people he is driving.

A mother will have to bury her daughter instead of seeing her marry. Planning a funeral and canceling all wedding plans.

This makes me sad and mad and all kinds of emotions I do not have to MANUFACTURE as it was so eloquently stated.

I feel it too spooky. It genuinely get under my skin. This situation pops in my mind a lot lately being that in less than a month I will be married myself

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Jeff_in_NY
07-30-2013, 10:55 AM
This is not "manufactured outrage". It truly pisses me off as here is yet another F***** in a boat who did not take seriously his responsibility to the people he is driving.

A mother will have to bury her daughter instead of seeing her marry. Planning a funeral and canceling all wedding plans.

This makes me sad and mad and all kinds of emotions I do not have to MANUFACTURE as it was so eloquently stated.
I agree - all of the deaths and injuries we've read about this summer, they all were preventable.

This one - don't go out drunk driving at night.
Arkansas - poor maintenance and/or clueless driver (more details sure to come)
Kids on tube behind jet ski - driver was warned before, no spotter. If there was a spotter there may have been time to warn the jetski driver.
The Colorado tuber - still need more info but seems like unsafe equipment.

The really sad thing about these situations is it isn't the idiots or clueless drivers that get killed, it is the innocent people whose lives are in their hands.

scott023
07-30-2013, 01:36 PM
Most certainly these were unessesary deaths. My condolenses to the families of the victims.


Can't for the life of me understand why someone not affected by the incident would be so upset about it. What good is that going to do? Certainly isn't going to change anyones behaviors, and won't change the outcome of these peolpe either. So what's the point?

scott023
07-30-2013, 01:44 PM
Most certainly these were unessesary deaths. My condolenses to the families of the victims.


Can't for the life of me understand why someone not affected by the incident would be so upset about it. What good is that going to do? Certainly isn't going to change anyones behaviors, and won't change the outcome of these peolpe either. So what's the point?

thatsmrmastercraft
07-30-2013, 01:55 PM
Most certainly these were unessesary deaths. My condolenses to the families of the victims.


Can't for the life of me understand why someone not affected by the incident would be so upset about it. What good is that going to do? Certainly isn't going to change anyones behaviors, and won't change the outcome of these peolpe either. So what's the point?

Most certainly these were unessesary deaths. My condolenses to the families of the victims.


Can't for the life of me understand why someone not affected by the incident would be so upset about it. What good is that going to do? Certainly isn't going to change anyones behaviors, and won't change the outcome of these peolpe either. So what's the point?

Working on that post count again Scott? http://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif

chriscraftmatt1976
07-30-2013, 02:28 PM
I believe in Michigan after dark, the speed limit is idle speed on inland lakes. I don't go any faster than that after dark.

Traxx822
07-30-2013, 02:31 PM
I believe in Michigan after dark, the speed limit is idle speed on inland lakes. I don't go any faster than that after dark.

I believe on the river we boat on it is 25mph at night.

scott023
07-30-2013, 03:32 PM
Working on that post count again Scott? http://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif

IDK how that happened.

sp00ky
07-31-2013, 01:14 AM
Most certainly these were unessesary deaths. My condolenses to the families of the victims.


Can't for the life of me understand why someone not affected by the incident would be so upset about it. What good is that going to do? Certainly isn't going to change anyones behaviors, and won't change the outcome of these peolpe either. So what's the point?

Emotions actually have no point. I guess if I was a Vulcan I would only see it logically but I'm not so I can't

I see stupid S*** on Lake Lanier all the time and my oldest daughter is about to be 13. So I empathize with this family and at the same time it shows how vulnerable we all are and I am fearful for my children who are soon to be out there amongst stupid a*******.

I'm sorry it bothers you so much that i am using this site to vent.

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 03:06 AM
Emotions actually have no point. I guess if I was a Vulcan I would only see it logically but I'm not so I can't

That is one of the best explanations for a normal human feeling I have ever heard.

Good game

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strad
07-31-2013, 11:49 AM
I believe on the river we boat on it is 25mph at night.

Yikes! I can't imagine going that fast with low visibility! I can attest to some of these big vessels being hard to see at night. I was the one on watch and helm of a seventy-one foot cat years ago, just slowly cruising the Benicia Strait (CA bay area) while a dinner party was going on below. A 400+ foot ship got within a quarter mile of us before I saw him. Black night, black hull. We were not on a collision course but the mere fact that it happened at all tells me that perhaps more than one person should have been on watch. We were not going more than idle speed with all proper nav lights displayed.

scott023
07-31-2013, 12:45 PM
Emotions actually have no point. I guess if I was a Vulcan I would only see it logically but I'm not so I can't

I see stupid S*** on Lake Lanier all the time and my oldest daughter is about to be 13. So I empathize with this family and at the same time it shows how vulnerable we all are and I am fearful for my children who are soon to be out there amongst stupid a*******.

I'm sorry it bothers you so much that i am using this site to vent.

I wasn't trashing you. I guess I've learned that getting upset about things that are out of my control doesn't do me any good. I just try to focus on what I can do to make a difference.

bturner2
07-31-2013, 01:49 PM
I've been holding back on this because a couple members seem to be rather heated about it and I'm not the type to tick people off for the sport of it. That being said my point was several people have drawn conclusions as to what happened as if they were there. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm almost certainly sure there were not and don't know with any certainty what transpired.

The conclusion some have drawn is that the operator was drunk when in reality all that has been stated in the press was that alcohol may have been a factor. Again a conclusion drawn and not based on fact.

Another assumption being made is that the driver was operating the boat at a high speed or irresponsibly. Did anyone actually look at the pictures of the boat after the accident? If not here's your chance.....

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pictures+hudson+river+barge+accident&qpvt=pictures+hudson+river+barge+accident&FORM=IGRE

Does that really look like a boat that hit a stationary object like a construction barge at a high rate of speed? I've seen boats that have had more serious damage from unsuccessful docking that look as bad as that.

And now the latest from the families and people that were there.....

PIERMONT, N.Y. (AP) -- The stepfather of a bride-to-be killed in a boating accident on the Hudson River said no one aboard saw the construction barge near the Tappan Zee Bridge before crashing into it.

Walter Kosik said he spoke to his daughter's fiance, Brian Bond, who told him all six people on the powerboat had their eyes on the river, but no one saw the barge's dim lights.

"What we want to talk about is the lighting on the barges," Kosik told The Journal News. "You've got two anchor lights, one on each side of the barge. With the glare off the bridge, you can't see it."

He continued: "It's just amazing that, the following day, (Gov. Andrew) Cuomo put lights on those barges, lighting it up like a Christmas tree 24 hours from when they got killed."

The New York State Thruway Authority has said that the barge lighting appeared to be functioning normally, but it remained part of the investigation.

The extra lights were added "because we wanted to go above and beyond to try and prevent something like this from happening again," spokesman Dan Weiler said.

Bond was to marry Lindsey Stewart on Aug. 10; his best man, Mark Lennon, also died. Both were 30. Bond and the three other people were injured.

Bond told Kosik that they all had about one alcoholic beverage each before Friday's crash. Boat operator Jojo John had a few drinks, Kosik said, adding, "If he was that drunk, they would not have gotten onto the boat."

John was charged with vehicular homicide in Stewart's death. He hasn't been charged in connection with Lennon's death. His lawyer called the crash "a tragedy for all of us."

The Journal on Wednesday identified the remaining two survivors as John Schumacher, 44, and Daniel Dilorgi, 28, both of Valley Cottage.

Dilorgi was recovering at home. Schumacher was in surgery Tuesday, according to his lawyer, John Pappalardo.

A funeral service for Stewart was scheduled for Thursday at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Pear River, where she was to have been wed. Lennon's funeral was set for Friday at St. John the Baptist Church in Piermont.

The point here is that I don't know what happened that night and I seriously doubt anyone on this board does either. As such I'm not willing to draw conclusions based on media baiting statements or conclusions based on the limited (and typically poor, inaccurate) coverage by the media. I will also not be demanding that anyone's head based above said media coverage.

As much as we'd like to think these accidents are rare we had a very similar one a couple years back on Lake St. Clair. An offshore powerboat ran into a construction barge that was anchored off the shore for storage. The offshore ran into this one at about 40mph. Survivors stated they did not see the lighting or the 130' barge. You have to remember lighting "requirements" for these barges are poor at best and are typically an anchor light at each end. That's a single post mount light at each end with 130' of black unlit steel hull in-between the two lights mounted close to 20 feet above the water.

Tragedies such as these seldom have simple reasons for happening and typically involve a series of events that lead up to a unfortunate outcome. If someone is seriously at fault and legally responsible for this accident then they should be held responsible for their actions. But until what happened has been accurately determined and guilt is found I'll wait to draw my conclusions and let others extract their pound of flesh.

willyt
07-31-2013, 02:19 PM
^ that

Jeff_in_NY
07-31-2013, 02:26 PM
Today is the first that they are saying they might not have been intoxicated, but that wasn't an official statement... it was from the family.

This AP story (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/31/3533517/relative-blames-dim-barge-lights.html) clearly says he was suspected of being drunk. As does this one (http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2013/07/29/update-on-piermont-boating-tragedy/) and this one (http://www.inquisitr.com/874732/piermont-boat-crash-second-body-found-best-man-believed-recovered/).

John, who was also injured in the crash, is accused of being intoxicated while he was driving the boat and was arraigned at Nyack Hospital on Saturday with bail set for him at $250,000.

After what one veteran investigator said was “the worst boating accident he had ever seen,” boat operator Jojo K. John, 35, of Nyack was charged one felony count of vehicular manslaughter and three felony counts of second-degree vehicular assault while still in the hospital.

Sure we don't know with any certainty what happened, but the guy was charged by the police. They must have had some reason.

Also I don't think this damage to the boat looks minimal. How much force does it take to crumple the bow like this? This isn't a little scratch.

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a517/jtfila/Found%20Pics/boatcrash_zpse63ecf1d.jpg (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/jtfila/media/Found%20Pics/boatcrash_zpse63ecf1d.jpg.html)

bturner2
07-31-2013, 04:12 PM
You do realize those are from three different papers reporting the same thing in a slightly different way.

As for the picture.... Do you really think that's from a 40 MPH impact with a stationary object? Think about what your car would look like from a 40 MPH impact with a wall.

Lastly they wouldn't print it or post it on the Internet if it wasn't true right?

All I'm saying is let's all take a breath and wait for the facts. The toxicology reports should be in soon (I'm actually surprised we haven't seen them yet unless of course they're not news worthy) and then we'll know how impaired he was. If he was drunk you can hate him for being drunk. If not you can always fall back and hate him for not seeing the barge like the others in the boat.

bturner2
07-31-2013, 04:14 PM
Dang I forgot to use my Jackie Chan is dead hoax.....

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/220163-jackie-chan-death-hoax-used-by-spammers-on-facebook/

Traxx822
07-31-2013, 04:22 PM
You do realize those are from three different papers reporting the same thing in a slightly different way.

As for the picture.... Do you really think that's from a 40 MPH impact with a stationary object? Think about what your car would look like from a 40 MPH impact with a wall.

Lastly they wouldn't print it or post it on the Internet if it wasn't true right?

All I'm saying is let's all take a breath and wait for the facts. The toxicology reports should be in soon (I'm actually surprised we haven't seen them yet unless of course they're not news worthy) and then we'll know how impaired he was. If he was drunk you can hate him for being drunk. If not you can always fall back and hate him for not seeing the barge like the others in the boat.

Kinda like Obama's grand bargain that was released only to the press and not congress. Boehner (not a fan of his either but..) said this deal is neither grand or a bargain.

The news sucks. And yes we can't assume.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Double D
07-31-2013, 04:40 PM
I've been holding back on this because a couple members seem to be rather heated about it and I'm not the type to tick people off for the sport of it. That being said my point was several people have drawn conclusions as to what happened as if they were there. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm almost certainly sure there were not and don't know with any certainty what transpired.

The conclusion some have drawn is that the operator was drunk when in reality all that has been stated in the press was that alcohol may have been a factor. Again a conclusion drawn and not based on fact.

Another assumption being made is that the driver was operating the boat at a high speed or irresponsibly. Did anyone actually look at the pictures of the boat after the accident? If not here's your chance.....

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pictures+hudson+river+barge+accident&qpvt=pictures+hudson+river+barge+accident&FORM=IGRE

Does that really look like a boat that hit a stationary object like a construction barge at a high rate of speed? I've seen boats that have had more serious damage from unsuccessful docking that look as bad as that.

And now the latest from the families and people that were there.....

PIERMONT, N.Y. (AP) -- The stepfather of a bride-to-be killed in a boating accident on the Hudson River said no one aboard saw the construction barge near the Tappan Zee Bridge before crashing into it.

Walter Kosik said he spoke to his daughter's fiance, Brian Bond, who told him all six people on the powerboat had their eyes on the river, but no one saw the barge's dim lights.

"What we want to talk about is the lighting on the barges," Kosik told The Journal News. "You've got two anchor lights, one on each side of the barge. With the glare off the bridge, you can't see it."

He continued: "It's just amazing that, the following day, (Gov. Andrew) Cuomo put lights on those barges, lighting it up like a Christmas tree 24 hours from when they got killed."

The New York State Thruway Authority has said that the barge lighting appeared to be functioning normally, but it remained part of the investigation.

The extra lights were added "because we wanted to go above and beyond to try and prevent something like this from happening again," spokesman Dan Weiler said.

Bond was to marry Lindsey Stewart on Aug. 10; his best man, Mark Lennon, also died. Both were 30. Bond and the three other people were injured.

Bond told Kosik that they all had about one alcoholic beverage each before Friday's crash. Boat operator Jojo John had a few drinks, Kosik said, adding, "If he was that drunk, they would not have gotten onto the boat."

John was charged with vehicular homicide in Stewart's death. He hasn't been charged in connection with Lennon's death. His lawyer called the crash "a tragedy for all of us."

The Journal on Wednesday identified the remaining two survivors as John Schumacher, 44, and Daniel Dilorgi, 28, both of Valley Cottage.

Dilorgi was recovering at home. Schumacher was in surgery Tuesday, according to his lawyer, John Pappalardo.

A funeral service for Stewart was scheduled for Thursday at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Pear River, where she was to have been wed. Lennon's funeral was set for Friday at St. John the Baptist Church in Piermont.

The point here is that I don't know what happened that night and I seriously doubt anyone on this board does either. As such I'm not willing to draw conclusions based on media baiting statements or conclusions based on the limited (and typically poor, inaccurate) coverage by the media. I will also not be demanding that anyone's head based above said media coverage.

As much as we'd like to think these accidents are rare we had a very similar one a couple years back on Lake St. Clair. An offshore powerboat ran into a construction barge that was anchored off the shore for storage. The offshore ran into this one at about 40mph. Survivors stated they did not see the lighting or the 130' barge. You have to remember lighting "requirements" for these barges are poor at best and are typically an anchor light at each end. That's a single post mount light at each end with 130' of black unlit steel hull in-between the two lights mounted close to 20 feet above the water.

Tragedies such as these seldom have simple reasons for happening and typically involve a series of events that lead up to a unfortunate outcome. If someone is seriously at fault and legally responsible for this accident then they should be held responsible for their actions. But until what happened has been accurately determined and guilt is found I'll wait to draw my conclusions and let others extract their pound of flesh.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Let the facts be brought forth before guilt is applied.

bturner2
07-31-2013, 04:49 PM
I hear you brothers. I think I'm done with this one.......

thatsmrmastercraft
07-31-2013, 05:10 PM
If anyone here has been involved in anything, good or bad, that was in the local news, then you know that they only get half of the story. And they get that half wrong.

Jeff_in_NY
07-31-2013, 05:19 PM
You do realize those are from three different papers reporting the same thing in a slightly different way.

As for the picture.... Do you really think that's from a 40 MPH impact with a stationary object? Think about what your car would look like from a 40 MPH impact with a wall.

Lastly they wouldn't print it or post it on the Internet if it wasn't true right?


Who suggested he was going 40mph?

As for "printing on the internet".... you realize these are AP stories right? This isn't some guy posting his thoughts on it, these are facts reported based on actual events, interviews, and statements by the police. He was in fact charged.

He very well may not have been drunk and the barge may not have been properly lit, and that will all come out in court. But the guy was charged with vehicular manslaughter. That's not speculation... that's what he was charged with.

BTW - this is a HUGE bridge and a HUGE project. In fact I drove by it on Friday night around 7pm... a few hours before this accident. Even if he was sober, he was going too fast for the situation. He should have been aware of his surroundings.

scott023
07-31-2013, 05:51 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself. Let the facts be brought forth before guilt is applied.

X2. Very good update. I'm sure the family would speak out if they felt that negligence played a part in their daughters death.

scott023
07-31-2013, 05:53 PM
Who suggested he was going 40mph?

As for "printing on the internet".... you realize these are AP stories right? This isn't some guy posting his thoughts on it, these are facts reported based on actual events, interviews, and statements by the police. He was in fact charged.

He very well may not have been drunk and the barge may not have been properly lit, and that will all come out in court. But the guy was charged with vehicular manslaughter. That's not speculation... that's what he was charged with.

BTW - this is a HUGE bridge and a HUGE project. In fact I drove by it on Friday night around 7pm... a few hours before this accident. Even if he was sober, he was going too fast for the situation. He should have been aware of his surroundings.

Jeff, fact is you have no idea how fast he was going.

sp00ky
07-31-2013, 06:02 PM
I wasn't trashing you. I guess I've learned that getting upset about things that are out of my control doesn't do me any good. I just try to focus on what I can do to make a difference.

It's cool it was kinda late when I wrote that. I went to bed and thought it may have been a little harsh.

sp00ky
07-31-2013, 06:06 PM
I've been holding back on this because a couple members seem to be rather heated about it and I'm not the type to tick people off for the sport of it. That being said my point was several people have drawn conclusions as to what happened as if they were there. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm almost certainly sure there were not and don't know with any certainty what transpired.

The conclusion some have drawn is that the operator was drunk when in reality all that has been stated in the press was that alcohol may have been a factor. Again a conclusion drawn and not based on fact.

Another assumption being made is that the driver was operating the boat at a high speed or irresponsibly. Did anyone actually look at the pictures of the boat after the accident? If not here's your chance.....

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pictures+hudson+river+barge+accident&qpvt=pictures+hudson+river+barge+accident&FORM=IGRE

Does that really look like a boat that hit a stationary object like a construction barge at a high rate of speed? I've seen boats that have had more serious damage from unsuccessful docking that look as bad as that.

And now the latest from the families and people that were there.....

PIERMONT, N.Y. (AP) -- The stepfather of a bride-to-be killed in a boating accident on the Hudson River said no one aboard saw the construction barge near the Tappan Zee Bridge before crashing into it.

Walter Kosik said he spoke to his daughter's fiance, Brian Bond, who told him all six people on the powerboat had their eyes on the river, but no one saw the barge's dim lights.

"What we want to talk about is the lighting on the barges," Kosik told The Journal News. "You've got two anchor lights, one on each side of the barge. With the glare off the bridge, you can't see it."

He continued: "It's just amazing that, the following day, (Gov. Andrew) Cuomo put lights on those barges, lighting it up like a Christmas tree 24 hours from when they got killed."

The New York State Thruway Authority has said that the barge lighting appeared to be functioning normally, but it remained part of the investigation.

The extra lights were added "because we wanted to go above and beyond to try and prevent something like this from happening again," spokesman Dan Weiler said.

Bond was to marry Lindsey Stewart on Aug. 10; his best man, Mark Lennon, also died. Both were 30. Bond and the three other people were injured.

Bond told Kosik that they all had about one alcoholic beverage each before Friday's crash. Boat operator Jojo John had a few drinks, Kosik said, adding, "If he was that drunk, they would not have gotten onto the boat."

John was charged with vehicular homicide in Stewart's death. He hasn't been charged in connection with Lennon's death. His lawyer called the crash "a tragedy for all of us."

The Journal on Wednesday identified the remaining two survivors as John Schumacher, 44, and Daniel Dilorgi, 28, both of Valley Cottage.

Dilorgi was recovering at home. Schumacher was in surgery Tuesday, according to his lawyer, John Pappalardo.

A funeral service for Stewart was scheduled for Thursday at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Pear River, where she was to have been wed. Lennon's funeral was set for Friday at St. John the Baptist Church in Piermont.

The point here is that I don't know what happened that night and I seriously doubt anyone on this board does either. As such I'm not willing to draw conclusions based on media baiting statements or conclusions based on the limited (and typically poor, inaccurate) coverage by the media. I will also not be demanding that anyone's head based above said media coverage.

As much as we'd like to think these accidents are rare we had a very similar one a couple years back on Lake St. Clair. An offshore powerboat ran into a construction barge that was anchored off the shore for storage. The offshore ran into this one at about 40mph. Survivors stated they did not see the lighting or the 130' barge. You have to remember lighting "requirements" for these barges are poor at best and are typically an anchor light at each end. That's a single post mount light at each end with 130' of black unlit steel hull in-between the two lights mounted close to 20 feet above the water.

Tragedies such as these seldom have simple reasons for happening and typically involve a series of events that lead up to a unfortunate outcome. If someone is seriously at fault and legally responsible for this accident then they should be held responsible for their actions. But until what happened has been accurately determined and guilt is found I'll wait to draw my conclusions and let others extract their pound of flesh.

The link I used to start this thread had the damage photo.. And I disagree that it wasn't significant it looks like around 20 without contemplating stopping. Which is why I got pissed.

bturner2
07-31-2013, 06:28 PM
It's all cool, I get it. No one's wining any points on this. Just sad and unfortunate.

sp00ky
07-31-2013, 10:15 PM
Ok my wife had to read this thread and she said I've been kinda of Di** on this thread and way judgmental as well as jumping to conclusions.

I'm SORRY I LOVE YOU GUYS!!

Hey but this is the first thread I've ever started that went multiple pages, so that's something Haha

Skipper
07-31-2013, 11:24 PM
Wait a minute! I thought Truman won that election?

thatsmrmastercraft
07-31-2013, 11:54 PM
Ok my wife had to read this thread and she said I've been kinda of Di** on this thread and way judgmental as well as jumping to conclusions.

I'm SORRY I LOVE YOU GUYS!!

Hey but this is the first thread I've ever started that went multiple pages, so that's something Haha

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/images/smiliesb/Tip-Hat.gif

Kweisner
09-29-2014, 04:07 PM
Updated--sentenced two years: http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/boat-driver-get-two-years-jail-in-ny-crash-that-killed-bride-best-man

02ProstarSammyD
09-29-2014, 04:36 PM
Twice the legal limit and coke in his system..............think that says it all.

EarlyriserX9
09-29-2014, 04:59 PM
This is awful to see.... on another note, I never knew a 19' Stingray to be considered a "speedboat."

drschemel
09-29-2014, 07:19 PM
Agreed, there was nothing about that incident that wasn't tragic. In the drug culture we are living in, people don't think twice about using drugs, alcohol, marijuana or anything else and then driving/boating, etc. I almost took out a family in a pontoon boat last June. I was running at night and the pontoon was moored in middle of the lake enjoying a quiet evening. When I saw them, I was almost on top of them. If I had used anything that would have impaired my reflexes, I would have hit them. Funny thing, at night I could not tell if they were sitting still or moving and could not know which way to turn to avoid them so I just slammed the throttle in reverse. Thank God the tranny didn't just snap! Missing them was not a heroic act, more likely an answered prayer but with a little beer, things cold have been very different and then I would have been the person in the article now going to jail. Be careful out there! If you are the designated skipper, you are responsible!!

JohnnyB
09-29-2014, 09:30 PM
People make mistakes but double limit of alcohol and coke....kinda lenient

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk

bturner2
09-30-2014, 09:44 AM
I know I was active on this post and advocated waiting to see what the circumstances were. Unfortunately they were pretty bad. Bad news all around for everyone.

sp00ky
09-30-2014, 09:21 PM
People make mistakes but double limit of alcohol and coke....kinda lenient

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk

I agree but I said my opinion way too much on this thread.