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kjohnson
07-25-2013, 04:42 PM
I have a 91 PS 190 with a holley carb. Is it possible to convert to a throttle body fuel injection system like the 94 PS 190 has? Can you buy a kit? How much cost?

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 04:57 PM
This is the system that is most economical.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/700-21/10002/-1

kjohnson
07-25-2013, 05:00 PM
Have you installed one before? Looks like a lot of parts.

CantRepeat
07-25-2013, 05:04 PM
It says that system is rated to 275 HP so if you have the 285 HO motor it probably wont work. It is also calling for 15 lbs of vacuum at idle.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 05:50 PM
It says that system is rated to 275 HP so if you have the 285 HO motor it probably wont work. It is also calling for 15 lbs of vacuum at idle.

It is calling for a minimum of 15" of vacuum to eliminate big cams.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 05:57 PM
These are pretty simple systems. Take a close look at the parts. Mostly fasteners. It won't provide much improvement over a properly tuned carb though. Performance will be roughly the same. I have not installed one of these.

Jim@BAWS
07-25-2013, 10:56 PM
I have a 91 PS 190 with a holley carb. Is it possible to convert to a throttle body fuel injection system like the 94 PS 190 has? Can you buy a kit? How much cost?

DON'T...just invest in a new carb $600 bucks, use good fuel!

We just went through 3 weeks of heck trying to bring back a HOLLY TBi system. Look on the CC site to see how many issues this system had. Finally sent it out for a rebuild. Came back and the IAC was bad. A chysler product on a holley system

Just get a new carb

Back in the day!!! 1993-1995 when I was using a CC. I had all 3 versions on the 300 HP FORD 351

A carbed one
A TBI ( It sucked the fuel) and the
PROBOSS GT-40 MPI. The most fuel effiecent and most powerful

The TBI drained my wallet...and as always a pain!

Just my 2 cents of input from experience

Jim@BAWS

Jim@BAWS
07-25-2013, 10:59 PM
It says that system is rated to 275 HP so if you have the 285 HO motor it probably wont work. It is also calling for 15 lbs of vacuum at idle.

In 1991 MC only came with 1 engine FORD 351 240 HP 1:1 or powerslot. That year
the 1:1 failed USA Waterski boat test Powerslot passed

1992 the 285 HP HO was introduced
1993 STANDARD FUEL injection!

If you have the 1991 FORD 351. Get a new intake, and get a new carb!

My suggestion!

Jim@BAWS

You could upgrade the engine with GT40 heads....That would also help!

Ben
07-25-2013, 11:03 PM
Pretty sure '94 was std FI.

'93 was either ford carb or lt1 FI (not many though)

Right?

tph
07-26-2013, 02:10 AM
Pretty sure '94 was std FI.

'93 was either ford carb or lt1 FI (not many though)

Right?

I think you are correct. I was looking to buy a '93 S&S and it had a 351 with a carb (285 HP I think)

MCVOLS
07-26-2013, 06:51 AM
93 ford 351 carb was std and 350 injected was option. 94 was first year efi was std.

d2jp
07-26-2013, 07:18 AM
IMO, there are not a lot of advantages of TBI over a carb, if any. EFI - is a different story.

JohnE
07-26-2013, 07:20 AM
Pretty sure '94 was std FI.

'93 was either ford carb or lt1 FI (not many though)

Right?

That is my understanding as well.

crank
07-26-2013, 07:57 AM
The guys are right in their advice, a well maintained and tuned carb will serve you well and save you money.
Even more so if you run at the same lake altitude most of the time.
There is nothing wrong with carb's, they can be just as reliable, just different, don't be scared of them.
Regards

mmoffitt
07-26-2013, 09:46 AM
I am not aware of a TBI system that is not an EFI.

A proper TBI system should provide more accurate fuel metering across the rpm range then is possible with a carb.

That said an EFI system my not provide enough advantages if any, to offset the cost difference.

kjohnson
07-26-2013, 09:52 AM
Thanks for all of the input. I just don't like waiting for the boat to warm up with the carb, but it sounds like the conversion is more trouble than it is worth.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-26-2013, 09:57 AM
How much warm-up time are you dealing with? The choke is only on for 90 seconds.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-26-2013, 02:48 PM
:twocents: A new and/ or properly tuned operational carburetor will be just as efficient and reliable as the same circa EFI.

1redTA
07-26-2013, 05:32 PM
a tbi is just a two barrel carb with two fuel injectors and two throttle blades,In My Opinion , they won't fuel meter any better than a correctly running carb, start as well as a correctly carb and won't take engine upgrades as easily as a Holley carb

thatsmrmastercraft
07-26-2013, 06:30 PM
Starting is slightly little easier with with the injection as fuel is sprayed while cranking and it makes things a little more efficient. The little, perhaps theoretical, gain is not worth the expense and effort involved in making the conversion. If you can't get your carb tuned, pay someone to do it for you.

kevkan
07-28-2013, 08:05 PM
I owned an '85 S&S for 24 years and never even upgraded to electronic ignition. In that period, I think I had the carb rebuilt twice. Sure, it could be a little finicky at start, especially if the weather was cool or damp. I just let it run for a bit on the trailer while launching, or started it before untying dock lines. Never a big enough hassle to justify spending over $1500, and probably making the engine much harder to diagnose.

I do think it is very important to find a good mechanic, and especially one that will lake test the boat.

Cloaked
07-28-2013, 08:17 PM
It's an each to their own preference..... I've ran these 4160s and 351Ws for 34 years with various tweaks.

New Holley 4160 ~$525 and a EI conversion for ~$175 = < ~ $700.

The EI conversion is a good upgrade. A new Holley is also good but the EI is almost a must (after doing my first and comparing).

.

kjohnson
08-06-2013, 09:51 AM
How much warm-up time are you dealing with? The choke is only on for 90 seconds.

It seems like a minute or two. It usually cuts off once or twice at first and then I get it set at about 1200 rpms and warm it up. Then it runs fine. Oh, I did install a new electric choke as the old one was not working and it did not seem to make any difference.

thatsmrmastercraft
08-06-2013, 10:00 AM
I would look for a problem that is worse at cold start like a vacuum leak at the base of the carb. Could be your idle mixture is on the lean side. How long since your carb has been rebuilt?

kjohnson
08-06-2013, 10:07 AM
How much warm-up time are you dealing with? The choke is only on for 90 seconds.

I would look for a problem that is worse at cold start like a vacuum leak at the base of the carb. Could be your idle mixture is on the lean side. How long since your carb has been rebuilt?

Long time.

thatsmrmastercraft
08-06-2013, 10:11 AM
Long time.

I would check for a vacuum leak by spraying carb cleaner around the base of the carb/base plate while it is idling. If the idle speed increases, you found your leak. Of course use care while doing this, though I have never had a problem and I have done this literally hundreds of times.

kjohnson
08-06-2013, 10:27 AM
I would check for a vacuum leak by spraying carb cleaner around the base of the carb/base plate while it is idling. If the idle speed increases, you found your leak. Of course use care while doing this, though I have never had a problem and I have done this literally hundreds of times.

How do you know I have a leak?

thatsmrmastercraft
08-06-2013, 10:35 AM
How do you know I have a leak?

Don't know for sure. If an engine is stalling during warm-up, it is usually because of a lean condition. As the engine and carb warm up from operation, the metal expands and seals small gaps caused by dry gaskets that shrink over time and leak when the engine is cold.

Air entering through a base gasket leak will lean out the mixture. The carb can't add more fuel because the leak is below the carb and may cause stalling until the engine warms up.

agarabaghi
08-06-2013, 10:45 AM
http://www.holley.com/types/Terminator%20EFI%20-%204%20BBL%20TBI%20Systems.asp

Someting like that wouldnt work huh?

thatsmrmastercraft
08-06-2013, 10:50 AM
http://www.holley.com/types/Terminator%20EFI%20-%204%20BBL%20TBI%20Systems.asp

Someting like that wouldnt work huh?

It doesn't say that it is marine approved. It may be, but the cost is prohibitive.

agarabaghi
08-06-2013, 10:51 AM
HA didn't realize it was $2k!

Miss Rita
08-06-2013, 11:27 AM
I am not aware of a TBI system that is not an EFI.

We should clarify terms. Fuel injection can be throttle body (TBI) or multi port (MPI). Both are electronic. It's not worth upgrading to TBI, just get a good carb as Jim has said. The MPI system (standard on 1994 and newer) is good, but don't try a retrofit.

kjohnson
08-08-2013, 09:25 AM
Don't know for sure. If an engine is stalling during warm-up, it is usually because of a lean condition. As the engine and carb warm up from operation, the metal expands and seals small gaps caused by dry gaskets that shrink over time and leak when the engine is cold.

Air entering through a base gasket leak will lean out the mixture. The carb can't add more fuel because the leak is below the carb and may cause stalling until the engine warms up.

Ok thanks.